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Kirinketsu
04-03-2014, 12:38 PM
I used the search and even searched the forums and yet couldn't find a topic .. on this most important topic .. link if one exist

I thank the time you have to wait to respawn is little to long in this game ... for Western players anyways. The way its set up is if you die you get a debuff. The debuff is for 10 mins, and if you die again within those 10mins you have to wait before you can respawn, I believe it adds like 30 sec each time. Well ok you might say hey this stops people from trading Honor Points, or from zerging .. well there is also a buff if you kill too many people during war or die too much that stops you from getting Honor or from giving Honor. So only thing left is the zerging part, well in most cases if you're zerging 1v1 you're losing to the guy killing you or mob, or you will spawn a mile away from your raid, if died during war.

I say this cause you get people who well sucks at pvp vs their own LVs and go into the lower LV zones to kill people EX: the LV 20 zone will almost always have a LV 30-40 running around killing people, and the level 30-40 zone will have 1 LV 50 running around ... however I have my self and seen people 1v1 LV 40-50 as a LV 30-35 .. as I said they suck at pvp and this game unlike EX WoW you can kill people higher LV then you.

The next thing is how many people of that faction happens to be in that zone at the time you're. Can you start a group or raid to counter them, or do you have to wait it out for Peace (time in the game where you can PvP) You also have to watch out for Pirates (players of the same faction as you who appear green (friendly) but can attack you at any moment even after you help them kill a group mob) So your chances of dying is always high, and will happen.

Each zone is quite big, some taking 15-20 mins to cross with mount. So you could just go to another area of the zone. Seeing how if you can pick up quest from one town of that zone, chances are you can from any town. You could also move areas, and hope the zone you're going to is free of PvP. or more players from your faction are there to help.

I don't mind dying in pvp, I Have never been lower then 4 Star in Aion and even solo pvp quest in open world as Great-General where I would kill one player out of 6 that gank me to only get their rank-2 800 AP to my lost of 6kesh ... so yea don't mind losing thing to pvp .. long as its not RuneScapes idea .. is fine with me. However getting ganked why fighting a mob, or having someone whos 10 LVs higher then me kill me cause they still get honor ... then having to wait 30sec, 1min, 2min, 3min togo back to questing to LV up myself is just dumb. Ok sure I can move areas .. chances are I will be killed why doing so, and could get ported a mile away to where I started... being stuck in a zone trying for 30mins + to leave ... It happen .. just to goto another zone and have the same thing happen.

I just don't see people who work 9-5 taking the time to play a game, when they have to wait so long after already dying to pvp. I mean come on even if you don't lose anything for dying in pvp .. people still rage or run from it QQ about it.. I hated that about people in WoW. They would just drop group or stop what they where doing cause they might die (why I scream at them you don't losing anything from dying WTF is wrong with you)

So yea really hope this gets looked into, or has been looked into. A change of the debuff from 10mins to 5mins might fix it .. but then if people are camping the Rez point, this still wouldn't change anything. A remove altogether, or adjusting the war debuff the replace the respawn one to give or receive honor for like 5mins might be better option

Fook
04-03-2014, 01:18 PM
I think that the current death penalty at level 50 (and all levels at that) are perfectly fine. There has to be some kind of incentive to stay alive, and if that incentive is time, then so be it! I too, dont like waiting upwards of 3-4 minutes when I die consecutively, however if it really gets that bad, then you should probably leave that area as your group/faction is losing, or you yourself are doing something very wrong in PvP :)

This is a good topic to bring out though, I'm interested in other people's thoughts as well.

Peter
04-03-2014, 01:35 PM
I disagree with this. The timer is fine. If you could just respawn and run back into battle places like liberty island would be unbearable during trade runs. If I'm farming, and someone keeps trying to attack me, they should suffer long death timers to deter them from the constant harassment. Yes, maybe I can't kill them but if that's the case I either get someone to help me (this is an MMO afterall) or I use my travelogue and find somewhere else to farm.

Fairfox
04-03-2014, 01:40 PM
People Die when they are killed ...like die in real lie your dead....The end

Try a perm death game

Artekka
04-03-2014, 02:06 PM
Your examples are not from experience, so I will dismiss them as nothing but theory.

This game protects you from being killed until around level 30, which is when you go to contested zones. Not only that, most of the time you can't even be hurt unless you initiate the combat. This is until around 35 when every zone is essentially a free for all.

What you're missing is this - The game was made for sandbox, open world PvP (hahaha). It happens to have a ton of themepark qualities though. You're asking for them to remove the core of the game. Good luck.

This game isn't made for solo players. It just isn't. The impact you have on the world is much greater in numbers. Make friends. Call for help. Profit. It's as simple as that. If you want to solo and be able to overcome every single bit of adversity in a non-skill based twitch game then you are playing the wrong genre of games.

Einstein said - "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results." - While not always true, this is perfect for this situation. Stop bashing your head against a wall. Do something else. You don't HAVE to quest in this game to become stronger. You can do many other things. It's your choice.

Sweetdeal
04-03-2014, 02:09 PM
It should be capped at 30 Seconds not at 2 Minutes =/

My Opinion.

AeonAuron
04-03-2014, 02:17 PM
Couldn't find a proper option to vote in that poll, but i do agree with Sweetdeal.

Kirinketsu
04-03-2014, 04:13 PM
Couldn't find a proper option to vote in that poll, but i do agree with Sweetdeal.

If I could edit the poll I would ... but I don't thank you can .. yea should of added an 5th called other ect made the poll display names and you could then post your other option

Kirinketsu
04-03-2014, 04:14 PM
I disagree with this. The timer is fine. If you could just respawn and run back into battle places like liberty island would be unbearable during trade runs. If I'm farming, and someone keeps trying to attack me, they should suffer long death timers to deter them from the constant harassment. Yes, maybe I can't kill them but if that's the case I either get someone to help me (this is an MMO afterall) or I use my travelogue and find somewhere else to farm.

I am guessing most people have been playing the RU AA at 6pm+ EST when its 2AM there.. or same for Asian servers . Cause lol liberty island during the main time is already a nightmare .. was made to be control by one guild at a time .. I mean would rather have people dying and running back one at a time then in a group of 200+

Kirinketsu
04-03-2014, 04:15 PM
Your examples are not from experience, so I will dismiss them as nothing but theory.

This game protects you from being killed until around level 30, which is when you go to contested zones. Not only that, most of the time you can't even be hurt unless you initiate the combat. This is until around 35 when every zone is essentially a free for all.

What you're missing is this - The game was made for sandbox, open world PvP (hahaha). It happens to have a ton of themepark qualities though. You're asking for them to remove the core of the game. Good luck.

This game isn't made for solo players. It just isn't. The impact you have on the world is much greater in numbers. Make friends. Call for help. Profit. It's as simple as that. If you want to solo and be able to overcome every single bit of adversity in a non-skill based twitch game then you are playing the wrong genre of games.

Einstein said - "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results." - While not always true, this is perfect for this situation. Stop bashing your head against a wall. Do something else. You don't HAVE to quest in this game to become stronger. You can do many other things. It's your choice.

from the that few have commented and from all the post related to pvp I have seen people don't really understand what this means for the average NA/EU player.. I don't want this game to turn out to be another Aion or Tera ... people stopped playing Aion due to how much AP you lost in pvp after how hard it can be to grind it (well and people changing to the domm faction on their server to avoid death) ... people didn't play Tera due to the fact you could walk 10 feet with out dying .. so I don't see why they will play a game that has both Item lost on death ..and death everywhere + having to wait after you die..

Peter
04-03-2014, 04:41 PM
from the that few have commented and from all the post related to pvp I have seen people don't really understand what this means for the average NA/EU player.. I don't want this game to turn out to be another Aion or Tera ... people stopped playing Aion due to how much AP you lost in pvp after how hard it can be to grind it (well and people changing to the domm faction on their server to avoid death) ... people didn't play Tera due to the fact you could walk 10 feet with out dying .. so I don't see why they will play a game that has both Item lost on death ..and death everywhere + having to wait after you die..

I played Tera on a PvP server and I have no clue what you are talking about. You're exaggerating. Also what are you talking about "item lost on death"?

Fairfox
04-03-2014, 04:42 PM
this is why the game has a prison system,

ButteredToast
04-03-2014, 05:40 PM
Stop.Trying.To.Make.The.Game.Easier.In.Every.Way.P ossible

Damon
04-03-2014, 07:58 PM
Death timer in RU caps at 170s (I believe). I feel like this could be reduced slightly.

A few things that should be addressed:
1) Getting pked while getting attacked by a mob results in armor durability penalty if the mob gets the last hit. Remove this penalty as long as a player is ganking you.
2) People can "trick" the guard AI in towns to attack you when you aren't doing anything which will also result in durability loss. I'm not going to say how this is done unless I see it can still happen in NA.

.X.
04-04-2014, 05:11 AM
So yea really hope this gets looked into, or has been looked into. A change of the debuff from 10mins to 5mins might fix it .. but then if people are camping the Rez point, this still wouldn't change anything. A remove altogether, or adjusting the war debuff the replace the respawn one to give or receive honor for like 5mins might be better option

I see a lot of people saying no don't remove it. Kirinketsu ALSO suggested it be lowered from 10min to 5min. A lot seem to only be focusing on the fact that he mentioned removing it. Ok, you don't want it removed, we get it. What about having it reduced? Why do think it should or should not be changed? Would you like it extended?

Personally if I have to sit and wait that long I would just go get something to eat, play another game, watch some T.v or find something to do while I wait those 10mins. So reducing, removing, adding or leaving as is for the moment does not bother me.

Based on what I got from everyone's post:

The pro to having it reduced is:

1) Less wait time
2) In a guild war, having the timer MIGHT run the risk of having a huge amount of players running back (Say...a group of 200+ vs one just respawning at a time and running back)

The cons to having it reduced:

1) Battle places like liberty island would be unbearable during trade runs

Are there anymore pros and cons?

Random idea:

What if instead of the long waiting period they could just have it that you can respawn instantly, but you cannot attack anything for the 10min. It would still be as if your just laying there on the ground, but at least you can still get started running back. You can still craft and ride your mount back to where you died, but beware b/c now your a sitting duck. lol

I think it would be fun if I could respawn but not use my attack skills. I would have to sneak around and hope no one finds me while I wait for the debuff to disappear. But that is just me. xD Also I'm not sure if its even possible to go unnoticed, so it might not work.

LunaNahueli
04-04-2014, 06:38 AM
O.O

I never thought about all this. I suppose I should have.
I'm used to dying and instantly respawning a town away, or rezzing right there (which isn't always a good idea) so this timer thing will definitely take some getting used to. Blah. Oh well.

Kirinketsu
04-04-2014, 06:44 AM
I played Tera on a PvP server and I have no clue what you are talking about. You're exaggerating. Also what are you talking about "item lost on death"?

When did you play Tera may I ask, was it within the first 4month of release before it started to die out, after it died out but before it went F2P, or after it went free to play. If you didn't play when it was release you couldn't know what I was talking about..... The losing items on death thing. I was talking about cons of Aion and Tera. In Aion if you die you lose AP... you could spend 30mins to and hour grinding AP both in PvE or PvP to have it all lost in 5-10 mins. In Archeage if you do Trade Quest you die you lose your item. I was not complaining about that just saying, I just don't thank casual mmorpg players... the main market for mmorpg, will put up with mass death in a zone why having to wait to respawn, and losing items on death. If you thank so well then look into Aion, Tera, lineage and how small the gaming community is, due to people not liking the same thing I just talked about.... Yes Tera died in Korea cause people wanted more PvP well any at lower LVs .. but mainly lack of endgame content ... If they made the PvP start at 40+ or even 35+ then IDK Tera might have done good in the West


this is why the game has a prison system,

Have you been to prison? I have its fun! There is some cool thing to do in there, and if you know how to escape well might be a short stay. Also in order to go to prison, people have to click your bloodstains, or foot prints, not everyone dose this. So if anything prison its self is a game within a game .. I thought they even added more stuff to it in later updates.


Stop.Trying.To.Make.The.Game.Easier.In.Every.Way.P ossible

Not sure how asking for lowing a death respawn timer is making the game easier in everyway possible but ok, if anything it would make the game harder for the ones doing the killing .. so that would be good by your logic yea?

ButteredToast
04-04-2014, 06:55 AM
When did you play Tera may I ask, was it within the first 4month of release before it started to die out, after it died out but before it went F2P, or after it went free to play. If you didn't play when it was release you couldn't know what I was talking about..... The losing items on death thing. I was talking about cons of Aion and Tera. In Aion if you die you lose AP... you could spend 30mins to and hour grinding AP both in PvE or PvP to have it all lost in 5-10 mins. In Archeage if you do Trade Quest you die you lose your item. I was not complaining about that just saying, I just don't thank casual mmorpg players... the main market for mmorpg, will put up with mass death in a zone why having to wait to respawn, and losing items on death. If you thank so well then look into Aion, Tera, lineage and how small the gaming community is, due to people not liking the same thing I just talked about.... Yes Tera died in Korea cause people wanted more PvP well any at lower LVs .. but mainly lack of endgame content ... If they made the PvP start at 40+ or even 35+ then IDK Tera might have done good in the West



Have you been to prison? I have its fun! There is some cool thing to do in there, and if you know how to escape well might be a short stay. Also in order to go to prison, people have to click your bloodstains, or foot prints, not everyone dose this. So if anything prison its self is a game within a game .. I thought they even added more stuff to it in later updates.



Not sure how asking for lowing a death respawn timer is making the game easier in everyway possible but ok, if anything it would make the game harder for the ones doing the killing .. so that would be good by your logic yea?

It seems to me every response involves "have you actually been there/done that?" so let me ask you this then........have you played AA? if so then let me clarify what you don't understand about how lowering the death timer makes the game easier, By the same logic it does make it harder on the ones doing the killing BUT it also makes it alot easier for you to constantly go back and try to kill said person which seems completely unfair. Say for example he killed you for a pack, You then respawn instantly a first time and go back to try and get your pack back, say you die again to the same guy then you want lower respawn times so you can per say constantly go back hoping that 1 time you can kill the killer and get your stuff back? so by your logic it does make it harder for the killer but easier for you to constantly go back to the said killer, so please get out of your 1 track mind and try to understand everyones opinions.

Peter
04-04-2014, 07:11 AM
I played Tera at it's release and after it went f2p. I still have no clue what you are talking about. Tera flopped due to it's lack of meaningful PVP and limited endgame content. You had one dungeon to run over and over again. Aion's problems were bots, poor customer support, and a dull endgame. Archage may fail in the west, but it won't be because of death timers.

Also jail may be fun the first go through but when you have to spend over an hour there it can be annoying. Escaping doesn't remove the debuff, so really it's just a waste of time.

ButteredToast
04-04-2014, 07:14 AM
I played Tera at it's release and after it went f2p. I still have no clue what you are talking about. Tera flopped due to it's lack of meaningful PVP and limited endgame content. You had one dungeon to run over and over again. Aion's problems were bots, poor customer support, and a dull endgame. Archage may fail in the west, but it won't be because of death timers.

Also jail may be fun the first go through but when you have to spend over an hour there it can be annoying. Escaping doesn't remove the debuff, so really it's just a waste of time.

At least this guy seems to know what he's talking about.......I played Tera throughout all the phases and am a founder and never experienced anything of that sort, he is also correct on the debuff also where it stays even if you breakout of prison so it doesn't matter.

Will
04-04-2014, 07:39 AM
I want to understand about pvp!!!!

xReorks
04-04-2014, 07:54 AM
Stop.Trying.To.Make.The.Game.Easier.In.Every.Way.P ossible

Good luck dude but is a lost cause,crybabies and easymoders are the 90% of the western community.

The best solution is to strike back,every request they do,good players shall turn the table and ask something back.
I make you an example:
They ask to remove the respawn time? we should ask to remove the respawn statues everywhere.
They ask more safe zones? we should ask less safe zones.

Else they'll become always more annoying and their noise won't cease until they destroy this game like it happened to many other games before.

ButteredToast
04-04-2014, 07:56 AM
I want to understand about pvp!!!!

I will try to list out everything i know about PvP for ya :D, There is level 1-30 zones in each continent which is a "Safe Area" where you cannot attack anyone but areas above level 30 are "War zones" in which anyone can attack anyone but "War zones" also go into "Peace Time" every now and then so it essentially becomes a "Safe Area"you can turn on PvP which you do by pressing CTRL + F to attack a green named player (innocent) but you leave behind bloodstains if you start the attack which people could report and you would gain "Criminal Points" if you have over 50 of this you become a "Criminal" and if a player kills you, you get sent to jail or have the option to go to court.
You also leave behind footprints which people can report if you steal someones crops outside of their farm, You will also see red named players which are either criminals or people from the other continent in which if you attack them you will not leave behind bloodstains.

Kirinketsu
04-04-2014, 08:14 AM
It seems to me every response involves "have you actually been there/done that?" so let me ask you this then........have you played AA? if so then let me clarify what you don't understand about how lowering the death timer makes the game easier, By the same logic it does make it harder on the ones doing the killing BUT it also makes it alot easier for you to constantly go back and try to kill said person which seems completely unfair. Say for example he killed you for a pack, You then respawn instantly a first time and go back to try and get your pack back, say you die again to the same guy then you want lower respawn times so you can per say constantly go back hoping that 1 time you can kill the killer and get your stuff back? so by your logic it does make it harder for the killer but easier for you to constantly go back to the said killer, so please get out of your 1 track mind and try to understand everyones opinions.

Sorry if it comes off that way but I have been playing games for about 18 years now.. I have spent a good $6,000 (that's to show how many I have owned) on retail games for consoles and have 102 games in my steam library, about 15 in Origins another give or take 15 in Uplay and about 30something others .. mainly MMO most F2P. So yea the whole have you played anything other game other then lineage, or Eve, lol Runescape ... I mean do you see that many people playing those game .. or understand what the mind set of those players are, compare to the lager MMORPG community. I have been following Archeage for 3 years .. and seen a few thing .. western gamers might not like this being one of the main ones in my opinion .. but I never wanted them to change the aspect of the game.. well until the death of KR AA which I don't want to talk about.

Umm not sure what you mean by running right back ... you don't always spawn at the closest revive point in the game .. for the same season you just said in this post ...and some of the zones are so big it would take no less then 5-10mins of none stop sprinting on mount or and why using glider to get to where you died....I am not sure where in my original post I used the word Trade Quest, Here is some news for you cause I' am guessing you have never looked into Korean, or Japanese version of this game or played on those servers, once the player factions come out.. you cant do trade quest in the location most of you have been talking about.. with out an escort, or being in that faction. That's the risk of doing the high end reward Trade Quest in PvP zones during none peace if it has peace. I'am talking about dying in general, or people PvE (questing to idk hit LV 50) or PvP.... You might be in for a shock in a month or two when the update hits ... If pirates haven't taken over by then that's is.

lets say you meant "BUT it also makes it a lot easier for you to constantly go back and try to kill said person which seems completely unfair" as player ganking player .. questing. Well good chance if the player running back is either trying to gank the player farming/questing and failing, or was just gank and keeps running back to his death trying to kill the player out of rage.. in which case he could then go to another location, to die by that player later one... but still able to move rather then looking at a screen for 3mins just too look at it again, and again until he quits the game.

Any ways if the whole agreement if trade quest .. good luck with that in a few updates Also .. the logic of its nice that people cant keep rezing and running into a big pvp fight .. just use a small EX: 25v25 you both meet with all 25 members , they are better then you are wipe you out, even with no respawn timer and your raid running back none stop. You all group up and come back and find the group slip up, you kill both of the slip groups and win WOOT, however they don't keep running back they all run back as a group and once again wipe you... If you thank you win pvp by zerging .. the original term where you just hit, die, rez, hit, repeat then I don't thank you have played much pvp games, or lead big pvp

Something else that just popped in my head... You play on Russian server or well anyone who also has the opinion, I gank you take your pack I'am should be home free, from you instant rezing to try and kill me. Umm I could just ping your location in chat, and I'am sure someone will be there in sec to kill you, but if you cant speak Russian I see how that's hard to do. I cant tell you how many times I have killed someone to then be attacked back, by people rushing at me on mounts or gliders.. not even being in the same guild as the one I killed, or group / friends. I don't know how many times why in this game I have wanted to ping someone location but couldn't from not being able to type the language.

Kirinketsu
04-04-2014, 08:22 AM
I played Tera at it's release and after it went f2p. I still have no clue what you are talking about. Tera flopped due to it's lack of meaningful PVP and limited endgame content. You had one dungeon to run over and over again. Aion's problems were bots, poor customer support, and a dull endgame. Archage may fail in the west, but it won't be because of death timers.

Also jail may be fun the first go through but when you have to spend over an hour there it can be annoying. Escaping doesn't remove the debuff, so really it's just a waste of time.

So you played the KR Tera .. cause NA got the expansion that added the lack of endgame content for a good 4 month even on KR servers, also you played at release of KR = No pvp NA= could leave starting zones unless you got lucky or kept chancing channels, or played during times when the main stream couldn't

Prison umm getting anything over 40mins is rare .. and that's with a good amount of crimes, all about whos in court that day.

Peter
04-04-2014, 08:24 AM
Sorry if it comes off that way but I have been playing games for about 18 years now.. I have spent a good $6,000 (that's to show how many I have owned) on retail games for consoles and have 102 games in my steam library, about 15 in Origins another give or take 15 in Uplay and about 30something others .. mainly MMO most F2P. So yea the whole have you played anything other game other then lineage, or Eve, lol Runescape ... I mean do you see that many people playing those game .. or understand what the mind set of those players are, compare to the lager MMORPG community. I have been following Archeage for 3 years .. and seen a few thing .. western gamers might not like this being one of the main ones in my opinion .. but I never wanted them to change the aspect of the game.. well until the death of KR AA which I don't want to talk about.

Umm not sure what you mean by running right back ... you don't always spawn at the closest revive point in the game .. for the same season you just said in this post ...and some of the zones are so big it would take no less then 5-10mins of none stop sprinting on mount or and why using glider to get to where you died....I am not sure where in my original post I used the word Trade Quest, Here is some news for you cause I' am guessing you have never looked into Korean, or Japanese version of this game or played on those servers, once the player factions come out.. you cant do trade quest in the location most of you have been talking about.. with out an escort, or being in that faction. That's the risk of doing the high end reward Trade Quest in PvP zones during none peace if it has peace. I'am talking about dying in general, or people PvE (questing to idk hit LV 50) or PvP.... You might be in for a shock in a month or two when the update hits ... If pirates haven't taken over by then that's is.

lets say you meant "BUT it also makes it a lot easier for you to constantly go back and try to kill said person which seems completely unfair" as player ganking player .. questing. Well good chance if the player running back is either trying to gank the player farming/questing and failing, or was just gank and keeps running back to his death trying to kill the player out of rage.. in which case he could then go to another location, to die by that player later one... but still able to move rather then looking at a screen for 3mins just too look at it again, and again until he quits the game.

Any ways if the whole agreement if trade quest .. good luck with that in a few updates Also .. the logic of its nice that people cant keep rezing and running into a big pvp fight .. just use a small EX: 25v25 you both meet with all 25 members , they are better then you are wipe you out, even with no respawn timer and your raid running back none stop. You all group up and come back and find the group slip up, you kill both of the slip groups and win WOOT, however they don't keep running back they all run back as a group and once again wipe you... If you thank you win pvp by zerging .. the original term where you just hit, die, rez, hit, repeat then I don't thank you have played much pvp games, or lead big pvp

Something else that just popped in my head... You play on Russian server or well anyone who also has the opinion, I gank you take your pack I'am should be home free, from you instant rezing to try and kill me. Umm I could just ping your location in chat, and I'am sure someone will be there in sec to kill you, but if you cant speak Russian I see how that's hard to do. I cant tell you how many times I have killed someone to then be attacked back, by people rushing at me on mounts or gliders.. not even being in the same guild as the one I killed, or group / friends. I don't know how many times why in this game I have wanted to ping someone location but couldn't from not being able to type the language.

All of these are hypotheticals and have nothing to do with the arguement at hand. The fact of the matter is that the death time is a measure put in place to prevent the loser of a fight to continue to come back until they win. Once your death timer is high enough, you've lost the fight. Cool down and move on with your game. It's also to give team fights a finality.

Yea there are a million and one variable that can affect a battle and perhaps the timer doesn't take every single one of them into account. However, the timer is still a good balance risk vs reward when it comes to PvP. It's harsh at times, but not too harsh.

Kirinketsu
04-04-2014, 08:32 AM
Good luck dude but is a lost cause,crybabies and easymoders are the 90% of the western community.
they ask to remove the respawn time? we should ask to remove the respawn statues everywhere.
.
That would be a good trade ... again as... .X. said why are people so against this, I have I seen is make the game easier, for who, and how, or Trade routes / quest, again you have not got the Faction update on Russian servers yet so.

xReorks
04-04-2014, 08:38 AM
I mean do you see that many people playing those game .. or understand what the mind set of those players are, compare to the lager MMORPG community

But you see,i couldn't care less for the feelings of those aion-w-w-tera players,if they can't pvp is cause they are handless (since they couldn't improve themself enough to become descent players and such against a L2 group they stand no chances) ,not cause the game is hard.

I tell you this,in russian server we had a PvP over a boss and literally lasted 2 hours.
I'm not even speaking any great boss,but just some lv 40ish one.
They kept coming over and over,from a 10 vs 15 it became a 10 vs 30+ until some other guild members came as backup and we managed to erase them AND actually kill the boss.

But you know many players are just plainly dumb and as long the game can't offer a proper death penalty to such scrubs they are actually free to waste my time even if they can't kill me in a 1:3 odds? i mean,if there are guys taking over 10k damage why do they bother trying? aren't they going to get 10k again? is some miracle going to happen thats gonna teach them to assist properly on healers firsts? NO,is not.
Do you think this is fair? or anyhow enjoyable? 'cause to me looks like not. i like to fight where im actually put in a risk vs reward condition,against enemies that stand a chance to fight back and can actually take the victory from me.
But if those guys can't win once in a 5 rushes,all of those happened with ++ numbers what makes them think that they should try a 6th and a 7th time? why the game doesn't cover this point with a clear mechanic of "you won-you lost" aspect?

Brutus
04-05-2014, 03:03 PM
it should stay as it is .

Darth Futuza
04-05-2014, 03:52 PM
If you have to wait forever to play a game that's not good, I currently haven't tried it so I can't offer an opinion, but the sooner someone gets into the game the better it is in general. No one wants to stand around all day waiting for a timer to click down.

Rinera
04-05-2014, 06:05 PM
The current system sounds okay, though I have to play with it myself to judge it even further. If a low level is being constantly killed by a high level or something along those lines, then yeah the system is stupid, but on X vs X level, it seems fair.

Sekkusu
04-05-2014, 06:10 PM
There needs to be a penalty for dying or else no one will care. It also gives a smaller but more skillful group a chance against zerging.

LlexX
04-06-2014, 06:14 AM
There should be a death penalty, and the waiting for rez is one, a minor one!

xReorks
04-06-2014, 07:10 AM
Yeah,i can already see an horde of zerglins gettin smashed everywhere without even understand how they died :D

death penalty is necessary in a pvp game.

Pissenlit
04-06-2014, 09:22 AM
If you have to wait forever to play a game that's not good, I currently haven't tried it so I can't offer an opinion, but the sooner someone gets into the game the better it is in general. No one wants to stand around all day waiting for a timer to click down.

This pretty much sums what i think.

What exactly is the debuff? Does it just prevent you from fighting? Can you go about and do something else?

Darth Futuza
04-09-2014, 11:32 AM
There needs to be a penalty for dying or else no one will care. It also gives a smaller but more skillful group a chance against zerging.

Best penalty I've seen in a PVP game is simply the risk that you'll drop items you're carrying. Then it rewards PVPers and makes everyone scared to die.

MoSa
04-09-2014, 11:33 AM
Everything is OK, with this kind of system. I think nothing has to be changed ;)

LunaNahueli
04-09-2014, 11:45 AM
Best penalty I've seen in a PVP game is simply the risk that you'll drop items you're carrying. Then it rewards PVPers and makes everyone scared to die.

This. Otherwise, I really like (or I'm just really used to) respawning somewhere right away. But I don't like the idea of just lying there, waiting ...

Darth Futuza
04-09-2014, 11:54 AM
This. Otherwise, I really like (or I'm just really used to) respawning somewhere right away. But I don't like the idea of just lying there, waiting ...
Yep I'm all there with you - I'm playing a game to play a game, not to sit and watch a timer. Additionally, if you want to make PVPers scared too, just make it so that the more CP (criminal points) you have the greater chance you'll drop more and more items including equipped ones.

Booyah
04-09-2014, 11:59 AM
I feel like anyone pleading for shorter timers is just stupid. IMO I think you shouldn't have some short respawn that allows you to get back in and help your team or get revenge on someone who bested you. If you lose in a fight you should be dead long enough for your killer to regenerate. Otherwise people will just throw themselves at someone until they weaken them down to death.

Darth Futuza
04-09-2014, 12:03 PM
I feel like anyone pleading for shorter timers is just stupid. IMO I think you shouldn't have some short respawn that allows you to get back in and help your team or get revenge on someone who bested you. If you lose in a fight you should be dead long enough for your killer to regenerate. Otherwise people will just throw themselves at someone until they weaken them down to death.
Forcing players to wait to play a game is a bad idea. This is why dropping valuable equipment is a valid solution to this problem, if they regenerate and run back to rejoin the fight they'll do so significantly weaker and each time possibly lose more and more gear. Most sane player's won't risk something like that, and if they do, more drops for everyone else. Debuffs are also a good solution to this problem if you're going to baby the player's and not make them lose items permanently.

Merjin
04-09-2014, 12:42 PM
Forcing players to wait to play a game is a bad idea. This is why dropping valuable equipment is a valid solution to this problem, if they regenerate and run back to rejoin the fight they'll do so significantly weaker and each time possibly lose more and more gear. Most sane player's won't risk something like that, and if they do, more drops for everyone else. Debuffs are also a good solution to this problem if you're going to baby the player's and not make them lose items permanently.

Forcing people to lose gear is an even worse idea.
You work hard to get the best gear, only to lose it in a fight because the other one was slightly better.. If theres is something that discourages people, it would be losing hard earned gear. It encourages ganking even more, becuase people want to stay at the top, which forces the others to grind again, untill they lose it again and simply quit. There would be a world of people avoiding eachother and specially in this game, where even the people from your very own faction can attack you in the pvp zones.

This game is not just faction vs faction PVP, there is a reason for the justice system and that is to report people killing and stealing from your own faction. People who will become pirates, no matter what, will not care what faction you belong to, and such, losing your gear will end up making you butt naked. Do you want to cater the game to griefers or pvpers?

LunaNahueli
04-09-2014, 12:48 PM
I feel like anyone pleading for shorter timers is just stupid. IMO I think you shouldn't have some short respawn that allows you to get back in and help your team or get revenge on someone who bested you. If you lose in a fight you should be dead long enough for your killer to regenerate. Otherwise people will just throw themselves at someone until they weaken them down to death.

I don't PvP, usually no matter what the game I'm just plain terrible at it. But if I am PvP'd, or killed by a mob, I'd much rather be able to get up right away and continue with whatever I was doing, probably somewhere else than where I died. Instead of waiting. I've just never liked waiting. XD

But anywho, I've played PWI on and off for five or more years; and you respawned right away, but you may have lost items-if you didn't have protection on and went 'red'- and that was fair enough, to me. If I didn't fight back or was able to 'lock' my items and try to fight back me ownself and died anyway that was humiliating/tiring/punishment enough, imo (but usually I was white-named and so didn't lose anything). It gets very frustrating when you're oneshot/twoshot/threeshot no matter what.

Or in DayZ, when no matter what, if you die now, you have to wait 3 or so minutes (or more?) to respawn; just because some cheesecakes went from one server to another getting all the loot in one area.

shadole
04-09-2014, 01:01 PM
the way that the game is build, is to be unforgiving. so to have long respawn, it is punishing. you have to wait because of your mistakes. and in most cases its your fault for dieing so much.

mox
04-09-2014, 01:03 PM
Respawn time in pvp, less than 2 minutes, (( 120sec or 60sec ))

Darth Futuza
04-09-2014, 01:47 PM
Forcing people to lose gear is an even worse idea.
You work hard to get the best gear, only to lose it in a fight because the other one was slightly better.. If theres is something that discourages people, it would be losing hard earned gear. It encourages ganking even more, becuase people want to stay at the top, which forces the others to grind again, untill they lose it again and simply quit. There would be a world of people avoiding eachother and specially in this game, where even the people from your very own faction can attack you in the pvp zones.

This game is not just faction vs faction PVP, there is a reason for the justice system and that is to report people killing and stealing from your own faction. People who will become pirates, no matter what, will not care what faction you belong to, and such, losing your gear will end up making you butt naked. Do you want to cater the game to griefers or pvpers?
To be honest with you that's the kind of game I love. If there isn't a significant risk it isn't very fun usually. Getting player's to feel genuine fear and adrenaline is very hard to do without real harsh consequences. However, our argument is an age old one and we won't likely convince one versus the other because we each like different kinds of games. I'd rather have griefers then long wait timers. I'm also likely to lose, since I doubt the developers will listen to me since it would involve significant gameplay changes that would upset several people (even though it'd probably convert me).

Just as a side note: I'm not suggesting high risk of gear loss unless you've recently been PKing - just in case that wasn't clear (griefers would run the greatest risks of losing everything if they are repeatedly murdering players of their own fraction).

Science the Pony
04-09-2014, 01:47 PM
Its fine how it is.

And put it this way, as assurance on NA and EU servers there are going to be many guilds playing AA who are going to focus on just protecting areas 24/7, So if you do get killed or ganked, just a quick shout out will have a pack of hungry ravaging maniacs hunting said person/s down, well if they not already busy making sure that doesn't happen in the first place.

There are quite a lot of us who also don't really want to focus on trading, we will be making our money from escorting traders, which is a good and easy way to look for fights.

In short the death timers are fine, the solution is to socialize with your faction and find a solution to making sure people don't die, that is the answer; not oh QQ make the death timers shorter.

xReorks
04-09-2014, 01:48 PM
QQ,respawn timer too long,QQ!

protip:

DON'T DIE AND YOU WON'T HAVE PROBS WITH RESPAWNING TIME.


:cool:

LunaNahueli
04-09-2014, 02:00 PM
QQ,respawn timer too long,QQ!

protip:

DON'T DIE AND YOU WON'T HAVE PROBS WITH RESPAWNING TIME.


:cool:


Lol.
Sure yeah not dying would be great.

Darth Futuza
04-09-2014, 02:13 PM
Its fine how it is.

And put it this way, as assurance on NA and EU servers there are going to be many guilds playing AA who are going to focus on just protecting areas 24/7, So if you do get killed or ganked, just a quick shout out will have a pack of hungry ravaging maniacs hunting said person/s down, well if they not already busy making sure that doesn't happen in the first place.

There are quite a lot of us who also don't really want to focus on trading, we will be making our money from escorting traders, which is a good and easy way to look for fights.

In short the death timers are fine, the solution is to socialize with your faction and find a solution to making sure people don't die, that is the answer; not oh QQ make the death timers shorter.
Good points you have. Though I still want dying to hurt in a more meaningful way then something silly and ridiculous like a timer.

Science the Pony
04-09-2014, 02:24 PM
Well it hurts traders =P, those packs you transport ant fast and cheap to make =P. Also pirate troll guilds, its gonna happen IMO.

Nilv
04-09-2014, 02:32 PM
Definitely no, they should add more time to it. And durability loss in PvP deaths too, with higher repair costs!