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Scapes
06-25-2014, 06:26 PM
http://www.archeagegame.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ArcheAge_blog_header_2_720x332.jpg (http://www.archeagegame.com/en/news/2014/06/archeage-patron-program-apex)

Announced two months ago alongside the beginning of Alpha, ArcheAge's Patron Program was born from the experience of taking our first MMO, RIFT, to a free-to-play model. In simplest terms, the program grants access to exclusive features and expanded benefits in-game. This premium service tier, called Patron status, can be gained through a variety of methods. As a cornerstone of our "No Tricks, No Traps" approach to free-to-play, it's important to us that the Patron Program adds to the fun of ArcheAge but is not required to play the game. This optional program was jointly designed by XLGames and Trion Worlds and is available to those players who want to get a little extra out of ArcheAge.

Before we discuss how to get it, let's detail what Patron status means in ArcheAge.

...

Read the full article on the website. (http://www.archeagegame.com/en/news/2014/06/archeage-patron-program-apex)

Jaserion
06-25-2014, 06:57 PM
sounds great. only 1 quick question.

"Increased maximum Labor Points cap (5000 maximum)"

but dont we all get 5000 LPs anyway? i meant on alpha we're getting 5000 LPs.

thanks.

Scapes
06-25-2014, 06:59 PM
but dont we all get 5000 LPs anyway? i meant on alpha we're getting 5000 LPs.

Alpha is treating all Founders as if they are also Patrons. Free accounts will have a maximum Labor Points cap of 2000.

Jaserion
06-25-2014, 07:01 PM
Alpha is treating all Founders as if they are also Patrons. Free accounts will have a maximum Labor Points cap of 2000.

got it. thanks!

Brutus
06-25-2014, 07:03 PM
Bonus online Labor Point regeneration (10 per 5 minutes)
Offline Labor Point regeneration (5 per 5 minutes)

PLEASE DON'T !! SERVERS WILL BE CROWDED WITH AFK PLAYERS

Scapes
06-25-2014, 07:06 PM
PLEASE DON'T !! SERVERS WILL BE CROWDED WITH AFK PLAYERS

Not with our AFK kick timer in place, they won't.

LordManmode
06-25-2014, 07:06 PM
those are patron numbers tho brutus.. F2P players will only gain labour when online. I highly doubt it'l be a problem..

See, they will kick the afk's :D

JimMystic
06-25-2014, 07:06 PM
I could see that also, maybe consider just offering the bonus lp regen regardless, otherwise as people sleep every safe zone will be littered with the staring statues of afk avatars while the owners sleep.

EDIT: Afk kick timer won't do anything , program that his spacebar every 30 seconds would kinda kill that.

Brutus
06-25-2014, 07:07 PM
those are patron numbers tho brutus.. F2P players will only gain labour when online. I highly doubt it'l be a problem..

See, they will kick the afk's :D

that's even worse, both patron and free players will leave the game running 24/7 .. i know i will, no way i'm geting behind other people because they are online more often .

edit: i'm goin to waste more money on electricity bill because of my computer runing 24/7 than the game subscription .

the whole "Bonus online regen" thing only works for the koreans because they play on PC BANGS (lan house for gaming), the same system doesn't work for us .

JimMystic
06-25-2014, 07:09 PM
"Damn, I won't get full LP regen if I log out, let me find a corner to afk in, how did I prevent myself from getting logged out before? Ah, that's right, time to afk mount level." Seems like a likely scenario also.

Scapes
06-25-2014, 07:15 PM
the whole "Bonus online regen" thing only works for the koreans because they play on PC BANGS (lan house for gaming), the same system doesn't work for us .

If you play a minimum of five minutes, the bonus is already benefiting you.

Scapes
06-25-2014, 07:16 PM
"Damn, I won't get full LP regen if I log out, let me find a corner to afk in, how did I prevent myself from getting logged out before? Ah, that's right, time to afk mount level." Seems like a likely scenario also.

Rather than go into detail and allow unscrupulous players to preempt our autokick, suffice to say we thought of that too.

Papp263
06-25-2014, 07:20 PM
I read the article and my one question is, at what time on Thursday is the live stream event?

Cheers!

Scapes
06-25-2014, 07:20 PM
I read the article and my one question is, at what time on Thursday is the live stream event?

Cheers!

3:00 PM Pacific!

Brutus
06-25-2014, 07:21 PM
If you play a minimum of five minutes, the bonus is already benefiting you.

i can see how release is gonna go already ..

Stay online 24/7 for labor > Server is full > 2 hour queue > Stay online 24/7 to avoid queue > 6 hour queue > etc .

Papp263
06-25-2014, 07:21 PM
Thank you very much Scapes! :D

Cheers!

Scapes
06-25-2014, 07:22 PM
Stay online 24/7 for labor > Server is full > 2 hour queue > Stay online 24/7 to avoid queue > 6 hour queue > etc .

Actually, each server will have a limit on the number of characters allowed to be created on each to prevent excessive queuing.

Zev
06-25-2014, 07:25 PM
Actually, each server will have a limit on the number of characters allowed to be created on each to prevent excessive queuing.

Will our friends who didn't buy a founder pack be screwed being on same server as us after the 4 day headstart?

Snowman
06-25-2014, 07:26 PM
Not with our AFK kick timer in place, they won't.


whaaaat?!? so what about if you have jail time? no more afk jail sentence... and afk mount lvling? since technically I am hitting a button to turn

Brutus
06-25-2014, 07:27 PM
Will our friends who didn't buy a founder pack be screwed being on same server as us after the 4 day headstart?
early access servers will probably be full by launch day, you better wait until launch to pick a server if you really want to play with your friends .

Brutus
06-25-2014, 07:29 PM
whaaaat?!? so what about if you have jail time? no more afk jail sentence... and afk mount lvling? since technically I am hitting a button to turn

i'm pretty sure he's talking about the afk kick timer we already have in alpha, you just need a macro or something to move once in a while .

Scapes
06-25-2014, 07:30 PM
whaaaat?!? so what about if you have jail time? no more afk jail sentence

Correct, jail time will not be able to be AFK'd. Means the system will be working as intended as a punitive action.

Palinore
06-25-2014, 07:30 PM
Thank you for the update Scapes!

Scapes
06-25-2014, 07:31 PM
Will our friends who didn't buy a founder pack be screwed being on same server as us after the 4 day headstart?

Not likely, no.

Brutus
06-25-2014, 07:34 PM
@Scapes :What are the chances of NA/EU having a Skill queue system ? i play with 100ms and my friend who lives in Houston can cast his rotation (6 skills) so much faster than me .

Scapes
06-25-2014, 07:36 PM
@Scapes :What are the chances of NA/EU having a Skill queue system ? i play with 100ms and my friend who lives in Houston can cast his rotation (6 skills) so much faster than me .

Ping-based skills are being fixed to not be ping-based before launch.

Blidend
06-25-2014, 07:37 PM
I am really not liking the sound of reduced labor regen for patrons whilst offline. There will always be ways around an afk auto kick. I am calling it now, servers will have queues of hours with people complaining on forums about it as people have found a way around the auto kick.

afro
06-25-2014, 07:39 PM
@Scapes - I do a lot of fishing and often times it puts me into an away status. Being that auto-fishing is built into the game, will I get auto-kicked if I fish while watching a movie or something along those lines?

Scapes
06-25-2014, 07:40 PM
I am really not liking the sound of reduced labor regen for patrons whilst offline.

Recall that free accounts do not regenerate Labor Points while offline.

Blidend
06-25-2014, 07:41 PM
Recall that free accounts do not regenerate Labor Points while offline.

Yeah I also don't like that idea either, at all. The rest of my post applies to free people as well.

Brutus
06-25-2014, 07:42 PM
Ping-based skills are being fixed to not be ping-based before launch.

i mean a real skill queue system like most big mmos have, so if i have 200 latency i can use skills 200 ms before the global CD and it will be used with 0 delay when the global CD is over .

Puremallace
06-25-2014, 07:43 PM
• Ability to post auctions on the Auction House by default

^ What does this mean? I am not that far in Alpha yet sooooo? Does this mean you cannot use the AH as a F2P player?

Aelos
06-25-2014, 07:45 PM
For a 30-day Patron pass lets say if I get one. Will be able to keep the farm/house/workstation and pay the taxes? or do I get it for 30 days?

:/

BitGlitch
06-25-2014, 07:45 PM
I don't like the idea of patrons not getting their bonus (10 per 10) labor regeneration while offline. Sometimes I don't feel like doing anything other than crafting so this will just result in me alt-tabbing and re-tabbing back in every few minutes to stop from getting kicked. I would normally take a 1 or 2 hour break to regen labor, but now I will have to stay online and just afk in game. I also use up 100% of my labor before I sleep and when I wake up, I already don't have enough labor as is, this will result in earning half as much labor as I do now.

Poppaea
06-25-2014, 07:51 PM
no offline/reduced labor regen just means afking more. which is stupid. I dislike when games design things to support more AFK activity. Could care less what measures you place in, you are basically encouraging more AFK play. There are legit ways to AFK and not get kicked, but 95% of the time you actually aren't playing. it's just stupid.

EDIT: But I guess now I'll want to buy those labor potions...just sucks.

EDIT2: So now at work, I need to keep my laptop running secretly and say something in faction chat one in a blue to keep labor regening so I have enough later in the day to harvest cotton when I get home. Simply brilliant design.

Puremallace
06-25-2014, 07:53 PM
There are legit ways to AFK and not get kicked, but 95% of the time you actually aren't playing. it's just stupid.

If it is the same anti AFk system from Rift that could be subverted with a quarter and a space bar then yeah not good. People will not log out anyways for like the first few days because they are grind-a-holics who have no lives and will grind to 50 in a few hours to claim as much land as possible.

My real concern is bots and gold farmers. Aion proves have fast these guys can destroy a game economy in the first month and keep it that way for years

HolyAvengerOne
06-25-2014, 08:00 PM
Recall that free accounts do not regenerate Labor Points while offline.

That's perfectly fine, thank you.

HolyAvengerOne
06-25-2014, 08:02 PM
Not likely, no.

Can you or Firecait comment as to what strategy will be used to balance between overcrowded servers and empty-feeling servers? IMHO, that's one of the most failed approach most games have.

Southernstar71
06-25-2014, 08:06 PM
I can see the AFK system either not working at all OR people getting kicked who aren't actually AFK.

Would much prefer everyone to re-gen LP Online AND Offline. Just give Patron a flat bonus re-gen. As long as it doesn't have to be in increments of 5 LP here is my suggestion:

Free Players re-gen 3LP/5 MIN 24/7
Patron Players re-gen 7LP/5 MIN 24/7

Poppaea
06-25-2014, 08:08 PM
If it is the same anti AFk system from Rift that could be subverted with a quarter and a space bar then yeah not good.

its hard to have an anti AFK system in a game that AFKing is how you craft mats or go junior fishing...Unless they kick crafters and fishers out then I can't see it actually being worth anything. You don't want to penalize legit folks who are playing properly and are required to NOT do anything for long durations. If you move during junior fishing you will lose bait. I don't think you lose mats when crafting but you have to set up the queue again if you move.

For me I harvest a days worth of mats and then craft while watching tv next to the monitor...I don't walk away since ppl will push ya into the ocean but I'm not playing truth be told. I'm just watching my character do a repetitive action 100+times over the course of an hour or so. In essence I am AFK.

And don't get me wrong. Kicking true long time AFKers who are lvling mounts makes sense, but if the "system" works or not is a different story.

IndigoShade
06-25-2014, 08:08 PM
I really don't like the idea of regenerating less labor points while offline either. I know that it's inevitable that people with more free time to crack out all day (*cough*no job *cough*) will progress faster in an MMO already. Call it a bonus all you want., but to me this just feels like being further penalized for not being online 24/7.

I just don't see how it fits with the whole westernized f2p business model. I mean, it's not like by ensuring that people play the game 18 hours a day they're going to spend extra $ on power ups or whatever.

HolyAvengerOne
06-25-2014, 08:13 PM
I really don't like the idea of regenerating less labor points while offline either. I know that it's inevitable that people with more free time to crack out all day (*cough*no job *cough*) will progress faster in an MMO already. Call it a bonus all you want., but to me this just feels like being further penalized for not being online 24/7.

I just don't see how it fits with the whole westernized f2p business model. I mean, it's not like by ensuring that people play the game 18 hours a day they're going to spend extra $ on power ups or whatever.

Yeah, I just don't see that happening well. That is so going to entice elaborate afk macroers *boggles*

Tiraelina
06-25-2014, 08:14 PM
Anything the benefits you for simply being online more is always going to make players AFK to get it regardless of what systems are in place to prevent it. Either that or its going to start biting legitimate players.

I would be interested in hearing any possible plans for a "Trion Patron".

Poppaea
06-25-2014, 08:22 PM
I would be interested in hearing any possible plans for a "Trion Patron".

Step 1: Play at an internet cafe (typically in South Korea)
Step 2: Collect large amounts of questionable drinks, preferably caffeinated. You will need them.
Optional Step 2B: Get other questionable substances to keep you alert.
Step 3: Play AA 48 hours straight.
Step 4: Die at said internet Cafe at the 48.5 hour mark, just shy of maxing out LP and make the South Korean News.
Step 5: "Trion Patron" Status Unlocked.

/end black humor

Prepared
06-25-2014, 08:33 PM
Actually, each server will have a limit on the number of characters allowed to be created on each to prevent excessive queuing.

I don't see how the limit on the number of characters allowed to be created will have any affect on the number of players logged into the server. With another MMO released in August of last year, there was a limit of one character per server unless the customer paid extra. No one paid extra because players can level all of the classes similar to how ArcheAge allows leveling all skillsets on a character. Yet upon release, there were huge queues that didn't drop because everyone knew of the queue login to the server. People would leave their characters logged in for awhile even with an auto-kick after time because if they logged out for a half hour to go do something, they knew they would have a hard time getting back on.

If there is no queue login to the server, this won't be an issue, but if there is people will leave their characters logged in so they can play at the time they want to. This is regardless of an auto-kick feature for being afk. I've seen it done in another MMO last year.

Kreau
06-25-2014, 08:49 PM
So I did the math, at least I think I did it correctly. And using the 10/5 online,5/5 offline and then 5/5 online I calculated the amount of time it would take to max out 5000 labor points and 2000 labor points.

It goes something like this:

Patrons:

10LP/5min: 10*x=5000
xminutes=500
500min/60=8.33333...hours
8.3333.... hours -8 = .3333...minutes.
.333....minutes *60 =20minutes
So for Patrons, it takes 8 hours and 20 minutes to max out labor points online. I won't do the math for the next two because it's similar to the first equation I did, just substitute 10 for to get offline patron status, and 10 for 5 as well as 5000 for 2000 for F2P while online only.
Patrons Offline only takes 16 hours and 40 minutes to gain 5000LP.
Free to Play online only takes 6 hours and 40 minutes to gain 2000LP.

I don't even know why I did the math, it seemed fun, but not exactly meriting an entirely new post of its own. But its there for peeps who want to know the exact numbers.

RYAN
06-25-2014, 08:55 PM
I can see the AFK system either not working at all OR people getting kicked who aren't actually AFK.

Would much prefer everyone to re-gen LP Online AND Offline. Just give Patron a flat bonus re-gen. As long as it doesn't have to be in increments of 5 LP here is my suggestion:

Free Players re-gen 3LP/5 MIN 24/7
Patron Players re-gen 7LP/5 MIN 24/7

I agree. Forcing people to be online 24/7 just to regen more LP encourages afk and is not a good idea. Tweaking the amount of LP that is regenerated between patron/non-patron whether online or not is a better idea in my opinion.

Please reconsider.

Tsetsu
06-25-2014, 08:57 PM
all i can say is, trion prepare for the macro wars, because hackshield sucks when it comes to detecting macros.

Arele
06-25-2014, 09:00 PM
You don't even need programs to do it, it's built in functionality to some hardware components these days.

Good luck policing that! This is just a dumb mechanic to enforce when you have far bigger fish to fry, like the incessant gold spammers and client modification users.

afro
06-25-2014, 09:03 PM
So I did the math, at least I think I did it correctly. And using the 10/5 online,5/5 offline and then 5/5 online I calculated the amount of time it would take to max out 5000 labor points and 2000 labor points.

It goes something like this:

Patrons:

10LP/5min: 10*x=5000
xminutes=500
500min/60=8.33333...hours
8.3333.... hours -8 = .3333...minutes.
.333....minutes *60 =20minutes
So for Patrons, it takes 8 hours and 20 minutes to max out labor points online. I won't do the math for the next two because it's similar to the first equation I did, just substitute 10 for to get offline patron status, and 10 for 5 as well as 5000 for 2000 for F2P while online only.
Patrons Offline only takes 16 hours and 40 minutes to gain 5000LP.
Free to Play online only takes 6 hours and 40 minutes to gain 2000LP.

I don't even know why I did the math, it seemed fun, but not exactly meriting an entirely new post of its own. But its there for peeps who want to know the exact numbers.

I don't feel like doing the math right now, but i can tell you this isn't even close to accurate. Right now at 10 LP/5 it takes approximately 1.7 days to get 5000 labor.

BitGlitch
06-25-2014, 09:05 PM
So I did the math, at least I think I did it correctly. And using the 10/5 online,5/5 offline and then 5/5 online I calculated the amount of time it would take to max out 5000 labor points and 2000 labor points.

It goes something like this:

Patrons:

10LP/5min: 10*x=5000
xminutes=500
500min/60=8.33333...hours
8.3333.... hours -8 = .3333...minutes.
.333....minutes *60 =20minutes
So for Patrons, it takes 8 hours and 20 minutes to max out labor points online. I won't do the math for the next two because it's similar to the first equation I did, just substitute 10 for to get offline patron status, and 10 for 5 as well as 5000 for 2000 for F2P while online only.
Patrons Offline only takes 16 hours and 40 minutes to gain 5000LP.
Free to Play online only takes 6 hours and 40 minutes to gain 2000LP.

I don't even know why I did the math, it seemed fun, but not exactly meriting an entirely new post of its own. But its there for peeps who want to know the exact numbers.
10LP/5min: 60min per hour.
120LP per hour.
5000LP / 120 = 41 2/3rds = 41 hours and 40 minutes.

41 hours and 40 minutes to hit labor cap.

I don't know how you got your answer, but for yours to be correct you'd need to earn roughly 600 labor per hour. You'd need to be getting 50 labor per 5 minutes.

Durango
06-25-2014, 09:05 PM
So I did the math

Poorly...


10LP/5min: 10*x=5000
xminutes=500
500min/60=8.33333...hours
8.3333.... hours -8 = .3333...minutes.
.333....minutes *60 =20minutes

10LP/5MIN = 2LP/Min.
5000LP = xmin * 2LP/Min
xmin = 5000LP/2LP/Min = 2500 minutes = 41.666... hours = 1 day, 17 hours, 40 minutes.

AKA at 10LP/5min you regen 2880 labor per day.

kallen
06-25-2014, 09:08 PM
Please reconsider having a different lp regen amount for offline/online for patrons.

Firstly, Scapes mentioned an anti afk system. How robust can this system be? I don't have much confidence in this system looking at how currently Alpha is filled with bots and gold spammers. Most MMOs with an anti-afk system has a anti anti-afk system which players can setup. Having no differences in online/offline LP regeneration will actually allow players to log off without feeling penalized.

Secondly, since I'm a paying customer, why should someone who only has time to play 4-6hrs a day be penalized over another person who gets to play 16hrs a day? or afk 24hrs a day for that matter.

It's not a very good business tactic to segregate further your paying customers by penalizing them to stay online via legal/illegal means. Alot of nasty backlash can be avoided early if there is no discrepancy in the LP regen for patron customers.

Just my 2 cents to the dev team. Thanks for reading.

Kreau
06-25-2014, 09:11 PM
Okay, I wasn't sure if I did it right anyway. Was fun trying to do it anyway. I'll keep it there for all the world to see how not to do it. I see what I did wrong as well, thanks Durango, and everyone else that also told me I was wrong. ;P

Fly666monkey
06-25-2014, 09:12 PM
Yeah.... having f2p players not regen LP while offline, hell, even having ANYONE regen slower while offline is going to result in everyone going AFK and hogging up space on the server to regen faster. And there is no system in place on this earth that is going to stop that, let alone Hackshield, hands down the WORST anti-hack system on the planet.

Sorry Scapes, but I'm calling BS on this one. If you think an AFK kick timer and some macro detection is going to stop players from doing this, you are seriously underestimating how far players will go for that extra LP.

RogueJustice
06-25-2014, 09:15 PM
Adopt a system similar to EVE when all people can set timers off-line. Perhaps allow paying customers the ability to set 2-3 different timers and limit the non payers to 1? I dunno, just a thought.

PApito
06-25-2014, 09:17 PM
I really thought they was going to go 10lp per 5 for patrons and 3lp per 5 for FTP.
None of this while online bonus please macro and afk to waste resources

RYAN
06-25-2014, 09:18 PM
Here is a poll for feedback to Trion: http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?12833-Earn-More-Labor-When-Online-Yes-No

Snowman
06-25-2014, 09:22 PM
The only afk,system I ever saw work was in aion with the captcha system, random screen pops up to make sure you are still there. Only went away if you put in correct numbers on kwy pad that rotated where number were.. Secondly an afk timer of maybe 4 or more hrs would be ok I guess as that's rougly 900 worms or 25k cotton

BlooDEvil
06-25-2014, 09:24 PM
What about Free Account labor regnen?

1 labor per 5 / 10min?

Major
06-25-2014, 09:25 PM
Heh, Yeah, and when that captcha system pops up on my screen during a pvp fight? ohh the rage!

Cedwin
06-25-2014, 09:25 PM
I agree with the majority here, you're going to put yourself into a never ending battle, one that should be spent policing gold farmers and "real bots" rather than players trying to get LP. Once someone figures out a way around it, everyone will be doing it. Next thing you know your support team will be flooded with "suspected bot" tickets, that they will have to investigate. I'm assuming you'll be issuing warnings and bans for people macro'ing, this just opens a whole can of worms that Trion and your customers should not have to deal with.

I seriously hope you guys consider a different method. Different LP regen for online/offline is just... not good.

Vermil
06-25-2014, 09:31 PM
And this crappy afk kicker comes as a result to all the people whining that afk mount leveling is botting, an unfair advantage, and should be blocked. I hope this satisfies you, now the casual players are further crippled, because being able to leave you character afk to level your mount is "unfair".

RYAN
06-25-2014, 09:32 PM
I agree with the majority here, you're going to put yourself into a never ending battle, one that should be spent policing gold farmers and "real bots" rather than players trying to get LP. Once someone figures out a way around it, everyone will be doing it. Next thing you know your support team will be flooded with "suspected bot" tickets, that they will have to investigate. I'm assuming you'll be issuing warnings and bans for people macro'ing, this just opens a whole can of worms that Trion and your customers should not have to deal with.

I seriously hope you guys consider a different method. Different LP regen for online/offline is just... not good.

Vote / Share opinions on LP here: http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?12833-Earn-More-Labor-When-Online-Yes-No so it is a more consolidated piece of thread specific to LP Online/Offline topic rather than the entire Patron Program/APEX System.

Sharpe
06-25-2014, 09:39 PM
Yeah, I don't like the whole online / offline LP gain at all.

I fully intend to be a patron, hell I've already payed 150 for the game. But at least, patron members should get the same LP when they are online or offline. I really don't like this.

I have my doubts about the auction house restriction on free players as well. I understand the reasoning, but even if it's just a very symbolic entry price, it's going to turn alot of people away. Also I'm sure it's gonna be a word of mouth negative publicity mark.
The "You can't even use the auction house in that game if you don't pay!" type of negativity.

RYAN
06-25-2014, 09:45 PM
Sorry new Poll: http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?12839-Earn-More-Labor-When-Online-Yes-No-Official The last one was confusing to the Voters!

Brutus
06-25-2014, 09:45 PM
Yeah, I don't like the whole online / offline LP gain at all.

I fully intend to be a patron, hell I've already payed 150 for the game. But at least, patron members should get the same LP when they are online or offline. I really don't like this.

I have my doubts about the auction house restriction on free players as well. I understand the reasoning, but even if it's just a very symbolic entry price, it's going to turn alot of people away. Also I'm sure it's gonna be a word of mouth negative publicity mark.
The "You can't even use the auction house in that game if you don't pay!" type of negativity.

i understand the restriction of free players using the AH as a way to manage bots .
if you are a real player you can just give your stuff to your friend to sell .

comicbookguy
06-25-2014, 09:46 PM
I hope you reconsider the 10 LP for being logged in. A lot of people will just stay online and people that paid money can't get in. Just like in FFXIV, AION, Wildstar, ETC. Your AFK timer won't work just like it didn't work in FFXIV, AION, or Wildstar.

Most people already have a mouse or keyboard that can make macro that let them stay online indefinitely...which is what I do...I hope you don't force me to stay online all day

Gonzothegreat198
06-25-2014, 10:02 PM
I hope you reconsider the 10 LP for being logged in. A lot of people will just stay online and people that paid money can't get in. Just like in FFXIV, AION, Wildstar, ETC. Your AFK timer won't work just like it didn't work in FFXIV, AION, or Wildstar.

Most people already have a mouse or keyboard that can make macro that let them stay online indefinitely...which is what I do...I hope you don't force me to stay online all day

The AFK Timer worked fine in FFXIV: ARR, the problem with it was that they released it too late for it to actually be of any use. By the time they released it, they fixed their issue of inadequate server capacity and it actually became a detriment to servers, rather than an improvement.

Sharpe
06-25-2014, 10:09 PM
i understand the restriction of free players using the AH as a way to manage bots .
if you are a real player you can just give your stuff to your friend to sell .

Yeah I get that... I really do.
I just think these little things are going to generate some incredible bad rep among gamers. There's already quite abit of stigma out there regarding these so called F2P models.

People aren't gonna care that its an anti-bot measure when they speak about the game... all they are gonna say is "You can't even use the AH in that game unless you pay"

Tsetsu
06-25-2014, 10:15 PM
Yeah I get that... I really do.
I just think these little things are going to generate some incredible bad rep among gamers. There's already quite abit of stigma out there regarding these so called F2P models.

People aren't gonna care that its an anti-bot measure when they speak about the game... all they are gonna say is "You can't even use the AH in that game unless you pay"
hell all i can say is trion rather be the bad guys when it comes to preventing bots than be the bad guys that make it look like they wont fight against them

i understand where you're getting at but god if any player can come up with a better solution let god rest on his shoulders.

Tsetsu
06-25-2014, 10:16 PM
seriously trion you have the chance to change the number to the regens, if you dont want this to end up like russian servers take action now, fight bots and macros

Trollian
06-25-2014, 10:25 PM
Wow...I'd prefer if you just made AA a subscription game <_>

Kurve
06-25-2014, 10:43 PM
Correct, jail time will not be able to be AFK'd. Means the system will be working as intended as a punitive action.

then please make it so that people can't end up in jail for 24+ hours

Fly666monkey
06-25-2014, 10:51 PM
I'm stunned so few people have mentioned this one: The fact that free players won't be able to post items on the auction house.

AA is a game where players stab each other in the back on a daily basis, and scamming other players is allowed. And you're going to take away the only method of secure trade away from free players?

ARE YOU COMPLETELY INSANE?!?!

Luxeraph
06-25-2014, 10:53 PM
GG Trion, make a system so F2P users can play their way to premium status and then forbid them the only way to get the money needed to get said premium status, I agree with what Griffit said and just make it P2P already and save youself from the blacklash of calling F2P something that IMO is a worse demo than EVEs 14 day demo.

Edit: @Tsetsu, I don't think there is any way aside from a short "I'm a human" test in their website shop and even that will be easy to crack, the thing is that no matter what you do you'll end up penalizing the players more than the bots, FFS right now there is a $150 entry fee and there are gold spammers, do you really think a small $1(I think that's what trion is going for) cupon to be able to use the AH will stop them?

BitGlitch
06-25-2014, 10:53 PM
I'm stunned so few people have mentioned this one: The fact that free players won't be able to post items on the auction house.

AA is a game where players stab each other in the back on a daily basis, and scamming other players is allowed. And you're going to take away the only method of secure trade away from free players?

ARE YOU COMPLETELY INSANE?!?!



They can still use the AH, they just have to spend money (gold, not real money) to buy themselves access to the AH. This is their way of stopping people from spamming accounts/characters I guess.

Trollian
06-25-2014, 10:54 PM
I'm stunned so few people have mentioned this one: The fact that free players won't be able to post items on the auction house.

AA is a game where players stab each other in the back on a daily basis, and scamming other players is allowed. And you're going to take away the only method of secure trade away from free players?

ARE YOU COMPLETELY INSANE?!?!

You can buy a one time purchase item that gives you AH selling rights

Fly666monkey
06-25-2014, 11:00 PM
They can still use the AH, they just have to spend money (gold, not real money) to buy themselves access to the AH. This is their way of stopping people from spamming accounts/characters I guess.

Check again, it says "Marketplace." That's credits. That's real money. Even if it is tradeable/sellable (Which is not stated) you know people are going to milk that for as much gold as they can get away with, further creating a community of "haves" and "have nots" which is one of the fastest ways to kill a F2P game.

My point still stands.

BitGlitch
06-25-2014, 11:09 PM
Check again, it says "Marketplace." That's credits. That's real money. Even if it is tradeable/sellable (Which is not stated) you know people are going to milk that for as much gold as they can get away with, further creating a community of "haves" and "have nots" which is one of the fastest ways to kill a F2P game.

My point still stands.

Yeah, you're right I think. They'd still be able to be sold/bought for gold from players but you already mentioned that.

Damon
06-25-2014, 11:29 PM
10 LP per 5 min is too much. There will be ways to circumvent afk kicking, and players will get LP too fast. Make it 5 per 5 at all times so you actually have to think about how you use your LP instead of just spamming it on everything.

GiJoeJoe
06-25-2014, 11:29 PM
The whole thing is all very iffy, I just dont want this game to become any close to the horrid pricing of SW:TOR's soul eating / wallet stealing market prices and how they lulled innocent players into that death trap and i dont see how they are even still operating in such a way.

Trodas
06-25-2014, 11:36 PM
I'm stunned so few people have mentioned this one: The fact that free players won't be able to post items on the auction house.

AA is a game where players stab each other in the back on a daily basis, and scamming other players is allowed. And you're going to take away the only method of secure trade away from free players?

ARE YOU COMPLETELY INSANE?!?!


Free accounts will be able to unlock full Auction House access as a low-cost Marketplace purchase, a measure in place to protect the in-game economy from mass-created accounts.

http://www.archeagegame.com/en/news/2014/06/archeage-patron-program-apex/

This how it works in other F2P and B2P games I've played. It's no big deal.

Coros
06-26-2014, 12:02 AM
Whereas I completely agree with the bonuses (AH restrictions to prevent botting) and LP regen, even I think that F2P should have offline LP regen (Even if its a miniscule amount). People WILL find a way to avoid AFK detection and find it fast, which will result in bigger stress on the servers as there is a bigger number of people online at all times.

I do not, however agree with most reasoning people have against the F2P restrictions. There is a chance to get your patron status without spending a dime, meaning there is no logic behind not getting one, meaning why whine about the restrictions.

RSDared
06-26-2014, 12:12 AM
My suggestion is LP 10/5 min regen zone. These zones should be pvp. (Not close to the neutral zone grards or recovery point). Then there is no need to AFK kicker system :)

Coros
06-26-2014, 12:16 AM
Then get a patron status. /solved

Luxeraph
06-26-2014, 12:16 AM
Whereas I completely agree with the bonuses (AH restrictions to prevent botting) and LP regen, even I think that F2P should have offline LP regen (Even if its a miniscule amount). People WILL find a way to avoid AFK detection and find it fast, which will result in bigger stress on the servers as there is a bigger number of people online at all times.

I do not, however agree with most reasoning people have against the F2P restrictions. There is a chance to get your patron status without spending a dime, meaning there is no logic behind not getting one, meaning why whine about the restrictions.
The problem with the restrictions is that it makes getting the patron status stupidly hard, the LP regen is kind of understanable because you can just have an army of free accounts getting free LP(although unlikely because those that would make an army of accounts would just buy patron for them all) but the AH restriction? I would understand it if we had player shops/stands, so the whole thing of getting enough gold to buy the APEX would be as easy as making enough isk to buy the PLEX without ever touching the AH.

lostinspace
06-26-2014, 12:17 AM
Check again, it says "Marketplace." That's credits. That's real money. Even if it is tradeable/sellable (Which is not stated) you know people are going to milk that for as much gold as they can get away with, further creating a community of "haves" and "have nots" which is one of the fastest ways to kill a F2P game.

My point still stands.

It is trade-able, as stated in the post. You don't have to use real-money to get marketplace goods. Players will be putting up 'Apex' at the auction house that anyone can purchase with in-game currency. When used, Apex gives you marketplace currency. This means you don't have to spend real-world money to get auction house access.

Coros
06-26-2014, 12:22 AM
The problem with the restrictions is that it makes getting the patron status stupidly hard, the LP regen is kind of understanable because you can just have an army of free accounts getting free LP(although unlikely because those that would make an army of accounts would just buy patron for them all) but the AH restriction? I would understand it if we had player shops/stands, so the whole thing of getting enough gold to buy the APEX would be as easy as making enough isk to buy the PLEX without ever touching the AH.
As stated by Scapes, F2P will be able to buy a cheap item which will allow them AH access.

DemiGoth
06-26-2014, 12:29 AM
Bonus online Labor Point regeneration (10 per 5 minutes)
Offline Labor Point regeneration (5 per 5 minutes)

PLEASE DON'T !! SERVERS WILL BE CROWDED WITH AFK PLAYERS


Not with our AFK kick timer in place, they won't.

Don't think that'll help Scapes. They'll just add a load on the SPACE bad and keep hopping and countering the AFK timer that way.

And speaking about AFK timer. I noticed that when I'm crafting a whole stack of items I'll get into AFK already halfway. This would imply that when crafting 2 stacks I can't go afk or be kicked. Can you remove the AFK timer when crafting?

Coros
06-26-2014, 12:30 AM
Crafting detection is already implemented in the original and the russian version. I'm sure we're fine.

Alara
06-26-2014, 12:30 AM
Auction house as a low Marketplace cost item is hardly 'stealing from wallets'. It'll be a small purchase you do once only. No biggee.

Look to Marketplace consumables (anything you could use repeatedly) for the 'stealing' part. That's where the large numbers roll in and where the 'is this convenience or win' is often a matter of debate.

And if you're 'industrious' you could buy Patron status by buying APEX from another player. 'Industrious'. Sounds like work. ;)

Ratzor
06-26-2014, 12:36 AM
How many labor points per minute will f2p players regenerate while online?

Luxeraph
06-26-2014, 12:43 AM
"low-cost Marketplace purchase" you think if someone didn't pay for the $15 month fee with all the perks it has it would buy something even if it's $1 worth? I bet most of the people not being able to buy patron just out flat can't and I doubt its due to not having money, also the only reason I can see them doing this is because trion will be adding a cash item to increase the amount of items you can post(don't know how AA AH works since I haven't played it), because if bots wanna flood the market no paywall will stop them.

Brutus
06-26-2014, 12:44 AM
How many labor points per minute will f2p players regenerate while online?

they didn't say.
probably on tomorrow's stream

LlexX
06-26-2014, 12:45 AM
Forcing P2P players to stay online go get +5LP regen (which is a lot) is a wrong decision, should have just made it 5/5... Your AFK kick function can be bypassed easily, just check the RU version.

Whats up with this F2P won't be able to put stuff on AH, but they will be able to unlock this feature? Will it have a level requirement?

Griffit
06-26-2014, 01:02 AM
Trion should learn from RU AA.
RU AA FTP model killed their community.

RU servers are like this 40% Bots , 50% Patron , 10% f2p players.
Reason is simple f2p player needs ALOT more time just to gear up for lv 50 activity.
Example after opening RU server Patron made lv 50 and got geared in 30 days tops if not faster.
F2P players did not even reached that achievement yet.

And many many F2P without patron left .

So if Trion is gonna do to F2P same what AA RU did .. i feel sad for FTP players .


What as it seems Trion Doesnt get is that some players can pay 15$ per mouth or cant pay it , but for sure they can spend 5$.

So if u have "DEMO" F2P in order to gain money etc businesses.

Lets say you have 15 players

5 = Spend 15$
10 are f2p but they spend 1$

or

5= spend 15$ ( get bored after some time low community )
10 are f2p on model 7 leave game even before hitting lv 40 cause no patron system and at big diseadventage ,

so what u have 5+ 3 ? is me or is that half of server already lol


You have game shop + patron system , dont be greedy on f2p . You need to make it balanced .


I tell u now on start you will hit roof after that you will burn out so fast.

And i am gonna be so f mad , cause i spent money and game is so dead that i need to beg for pvp, and even if i find pvp it is gonna be same fcking dude from yesterday .

Disco
06-26-2014, 01:06 AM
Not with our AFK kick timer in place, they won't.

http://babblingbrookesblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/challenge-accepted.jpg

Disco
06-26-2014, 01:14 AM
How many labor points per minute will f2p players regenerate while online?

They always leave out the stuff people will get upset about. I'm going to guess 5/5 online. That is about the best you can hope for since it is like 1/5 in the ru version. I'm half expecting some PR dodge answer like "We are still in the process of deciding this pending further testing"

Talentednot
06-26-2014, 01:17 AM
So if we are supposed to be in jail and you're forcing us to sit there and wait, why exactly isnt there a way to lose the jail debuff once you've escaped from jail I.E a fine or quest or SOMETHING?

Desta
06-26-2014, 01:41 AM
I assume the effectiveness of the system will be tested out, as mentioned, in the 1.2 alpha update. In which case, I'm certain that if the system proves to not work it will be resolved before release. If people dislike the patron options then test it on alpha and develop some physical evidence to show it is not practical for archeage gameplay. That is what alpha and beta is for. Personally, the patron pass doesn't bother me. I understand it encourages players to afk online, but atleast when I'm playing - even if it's two hours, I'm regenerating extra LP as a reward for staying on. I personally won't be using LP points all the time because there are other aspects of the game to entertain me that don't require LP. If players manage to change the system by giving negative feedback to trion, then good for you, happier community - still doesn't personally affect me.

Xenon
06-26-2014, 01:57 AM
I got 1 Question:


There will be in Marketplace item to reservation place for big farms like in ArcheAge RU?

-FP
06-26-2014, 02:04 AM
What did this mean then if free accounts do not regen LP being offline? (Read the first post)

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?747-Labor-Point-Question-For-those-of-you-on-KR-RU&p=9187&viewfull=1#post9187

Disco
06-26-2014, 02:34 AM
What did this mean then if free accounts do not regen LP being offline? (Read the first post)

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?747-Labor-Point-Question-For-those-of-you-on-KR-RU&p=9187&viewfull=1#post9187

Aha thank you for digging that up cause I was too lazy to. I thought when I read that post months ago it didn't make any sense at the time. Basically they went back on that for the F2P and the P2P accounts.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/16/16da4f863da25c013fbf449b6c67f177d026b0c254ae29f7e7 f999c332a729db.jpg

Mira Rift
06-26-2014, 02:46 AM
It's a bad idea all the way around and will only serve to reinforce negative behavior; diverting attention of TW that could better be served in other aspects of the game.

Also restricting use of auction house by F2P accounts will limit their ability to earn currency to be able to buy those credits they need from Patrons.

-FP
06-26-2014, 02:46 AM
Well yeah I never really expected the free accounts to regen being offline until I saw that, but anyway I plan to subscribe, I'm just wondering what's going to be the LP regen for the free being online.

Xara
06-26-2014, 02:47 AM
This Regen while online part, does Trion have shares in the big energy companies or what? And have you guys heard of Global warming? Geez guys, responsible companies are supposed to help with lowering carbon footprints, not raising them :(

Jormie
06-26-2014, 02:48 AM
Hopefully the head start servers will cap at a percentage less than 100% capacity during headstart so there will be room on them come official release day.

Calpa
06-26-2014, 02:49 AM
http://babblingbrookesblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/challenge-accepted.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/60OOdpk.gif

Mira Rift
06-26-2014, 02:49 AM
What did this mean then if free accounts do not regen LP being offline? (Read the first post)

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?747-Labor-Point-Question-For-those-of-you-on-KR-RU&p=9187&viewfull=1#post9187

O, wow. Well it's still in the testing stages, but still I think they should stick with what Amary stated.

Beorg Iron Fist
06-26-2014, 02:51 AM
I'd love to have some feedback on the Beta Status.

I bought the Silver Pack on april 22 and since then Trion and ArcheAge didn't get me ANY KIND of information about the development.
Please, feedback is important... And becomes something you are obligated to do when dealing with paying costumers.

Expectng an answer,
Beorg Iron Fist - Mighty Warrior Reviews.

TheFell
06-26-2014, 03:16 AM
http://babblingbrookesblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/challenge-accepted.jpg

I will attempt this with my Logitech gaming keyboard at least in rift it was allowed when I asked gm if I can use the macros from that

IKShadow
06-26-2014, 03:17 AM
Actually, each server will have a limit on the number of characters allowed to be created on each to prevent excessive queuing.


Will our friends who didn't buy a founder pack be screwed being on same server as us after the 4 day headstart?


Not likely, no.

What do you mean not likely ?

What we saw in Russian release ?
As soon as the head start was over servers got packed with players and locked for new character creation.
( and when i say packed it meant as soon as it opened it took like 10 minutes for 3 servers to get locked )

They were constantly opening new servers, but guilds were pretty much screwed as those who did not buy head start could not join their friends.

The main question is how soon will Trion allow character transfer and will it be free at beginning ?

Consider giving another cheaper package just for slot reservation without 4 days headstart.
We have over 300 members who will buy one of the founders packages but still around 200 does not want to buy before testing the game and its most likely they wont be able to join us on the same server.

Reii
06-26-2014, 03:26 AM
• Bonus online Labor Point regeneration (10 per 5 minutes)
• Offline Labor Point regeneration (5 per 5 minutes)

This is fking dumb. Patrons should not be made to feel obligated to remain logged in 24/7 to get our money's worth. And no matter how you spin it, we ARE going to feel obligated to be on 24/7 or else we'll 'lose out'. I don't care if its 10/5 or 5/5, just make it so there's no difference between a Patron being online or offline. Utterly ridiculous. I can't even fathom the lack of thought that went into making this decision.

PS: Trion, if for some reason you feel your logic is sound with this decision, then please give me a full refund.

ShinyGuy
06-26-2014, 03:37 AM
- Lower that LP regen from patron accounts, make it closer to the free to play value.
- Get rid of the online/offline difference for patron status.

-FP
06-26-2014, 03:43 AM
This is fking dumb. Patrons should not be made to feel obligated to remain logged in 24/7 to get our money's worth. And no matter how you spin it, we ARE going to feel obligated to be on 24/7 or else we'll 'lose out'. I don't care if its 10/5 or 5/5, just make it so there's no difference between a Patron being online or offline. Utterly ridiculous. I can't even fathom the lack of thought that went into making this decision.

PS: Trion, if for some reason you feel your logic is sound with this decision, then please give me a full refund.

Why? It's a bonus, they could remove the bonus and leave it at 5 per 5 both online and offline... I mean what's the logic, you would give up the online bonus just because you would feel obligated? If some people has more time to be online, good for them, world is not based on communism.

oomry
06-26-2014, 03:49 AM
Not with our AFK kick timer in place, they won't.

Keep afk long

Disco
06-26-2014, 03:51 AM
Why? It's a bonus, they could remove the bonus and leave it at 5 per 5 both online and offline...
Well it's not really a bonus, you are paying for it after all. The numbers don't matter as much as just the whole concept of different online/offline values. I'd be happy if they split the difference and went 7/7 or whatever. The fact is giving people an incentive to try and stay online more just invites all the problems of people using various means to stay online when they are not actually playing. That is not good for anyone.

-FP
06-26-2014, 03:55 AM
I don't know... I'd say most people gets annoyed by stuff like that because other people will get more out of the same stuff they pay. Every day stuff just because they -can't/don't want to- invest the same amount of time, thus they need to be equal no matter what, we are human beings.

I don't see a problem if they take care of people "cheating" to stay online, and even then, only the really nerdy people would do that, I don't see how they would affect me over the whole population of the server.

Yunno
06-26-2014, 04:00 AM
• Bonus online Labor Point regeneration (10 per 5 minutes)
• Offline Labor Point regeneration (5 per 5 minutes)

Please don't
You are forcing people to stay online.
What do you think will happen? AFK or not, serverqueue for 6 or more hours.

People who can stay longer online get an advantage against people with less onlinetime. This can't be a part of the game design.
Please think about it.

Riddim
06-26-2014, 04:00 AM
great this is how we solve problems, good job trion and XL games, You see those foolish F2P players who maybe most cannot afford to spend 24/7s, on these online games, sitting waiting for LP to regain, and now those Free bee lovers plan to afk and gain there LP, very bad we must make sure they sit online and watch there computer screens for them to have anything in the game, Good job Trion and XL games, this is the right way forward, If they try to afk or maybe they have to go to college or work, we must make sure they are not regaining LP. All for the sake of Patrons to feel better and special (round of applause)





Riddim (F2P player)

Westeller
06-26-2014, 04:07 AM
I have to say I'm a little concerned about the kind of impression the labor points system is going to give free-to-play players if 10 per 5, with 5 per 5 offline, is an increase that Patron players are receiving. Personally, from my experience in Alpha, I'd have to say that the current rates are more or less perfect - I have just enough labor to consistently tend to a farm and still be free to do little things, like go fishing, if the mood strikes me. I don't, however, have enough to suddenly pour a large number into any given proficiency. That's, I think, the way it should be.

Lowering the current numbers at all, though, feels to me like it would become hugely restricting, very fast. I'm not saying Patrons shouldn't have benefits like this, and I intend to pay every month myself, so don't get me wrong -- I'm just concerned that labor points will feel extremely tight to a non-Patron player, and majorly restrict them from the kind of freedom that ArcheAge stands for. After all, many of the things you can supposedly just randomly decide to do in the game are only options at all if you happen to have plenty of spare LP, or plan ahead...

The lack of offline regeneration, especially, will be a major handicap to the amount that free players have to live on. Even now, with our current rates, I depend a lot on offline regeneration to keep me going day-to-day. I couldn't imagine playing without it, to be honest. Not unless I was willing and able to stay logged in 24/7. Without it, and with a decreased online regeneration rate, I'd be too scared to open the pouches that mobs drop, much less do anything that required more labor than that.


Scapes, hows about lowering Alpha down to non-Patron regeneration for awhile, and seeing what kind of feedback that gets you?~

Riddim
06-26-2014, 04:12 AM
I have to say I'm a little concerned about the kind of impression the labor points system is going to give free-to-play players if 10 per 5, with 5 per 5 offline, is an increase that Patron players are receiving. Personally, from my experience in Alpha, I'd have to say that the current rates are more or less perfect - I have just enough labor to consistently tend to a farm and still be free to do little things like go fishing if the mood strikes me. I don't, however, have enough to suddenly pour a large number into any given proficiency. That's, I think, the way it should be.

Lowering the current numbers at all, though, feels to me like it would become hugely restricting, very fast. I'm not saying Patron's shouldn't have benefits like this, and I intend to pay every month myself, so don't get me wrong -- I'm just concerned that labor points will feel extremely tight to a non-Patron player, and majorly restrict them from the kind of freedom that ArcheAge stands for. After all, many of the things you can supposedly just randomly deside to do in the game are only options at all if you happen to have plenty of spare LP, or plan ahead...

Scapes, hows about lowering Alpha down to non-Patron regeneration for awhile, and seeing what kind of feedback that gets you?~


A response with level of intelligence

+ How about we test it scapes :P lets see how much the special Alpha players fair under ) None patron LP status.

Wangcai
06-26-2014, 04:12 AM
I would rather to have 1LP / 5 minutes as Patron than having a difference between online and offline...............it just makes me wanting to stay online 24/7, and I believe I will try my best to do, which will have negative influence on my life and my fun in the game.

Desta
06-26-2014, 04:13 AM
I have to say I'm a little concerned about the kind of impression the labor points system is going to give free-to-play players if 10 per 5, with 5 per 5 offline, is an increase that Patron players are receiving. Personally, from my experience in Alpha, I'd have to say that the current rates are more or less perfect - I have just enough labor to consistently tend to a farm and still be free to do little things like go fishing if the mood strikes me. I don't, however, have enough to suddenly pour a large number into any given proficiency. That's, I think, the way it should be.

Lowering the current numbers at all, though, feels to me like it would become hugely restricting, very fast. I'm not saying Patron's shouldn't have benefits like this, and I intend to pay every month myself, so don't get me wrong -- I'm just concerned that labor points will feel extremely tight to a non-Patron player, and majorly restrict them from the kind of freedom that ArcheAge stands for. After all, many of the things you can supposedly just randomly decide to do in the game are only options at all if you happen to have plenty of spare LP, or plan ahead...

The lack of offline regeneration, especially, will be a major handicap to the amount that free players have to live on. Even now, with our current rates, I depend a lot on offline regeneration to keep me going day-to-day. I couldn't imagine playing without it, to be honest. Not unless I was willing and able to stay logged in 24/7.


Scapes, hows about lowering Alpha down to non-Patron regeneration for awhile, and seeing what kind of feedback that gets you?~

I agree. It should be tested with non-patron regeneration for public feedback. ^^

Riddim
06-26-2014, 04:14 AM
yes because all those "Asians" you see in college and work places are just whites wearing asians skins. Quit being racist man.

your right though my intended comment was not racist :D I don't believe in racism its a farce and a means to devide and conquer the already divided humanity.

But even so i have removed that statement thank you :)

Cinde
06-26-2014, 04:18 AM
your right though my intended comment was not racist :D I don't believe in racism its a farce and a means to devide and conquer the already divided humanity.

But even so i have removed that statement thank you :)

Thank you for being reasonable, I apologize for my venomous post, got a little worked up.

jahlon
06-26-2014, 04:25 AM
The two things I see as problematic.

1) Patron offline regen. What is the rationale behind setting it to 5 while offline and 10 while online. I would almost think that should be reversed. 10 while offline and 5 while online. 10 while online, while it may encourage people to play more, will only encourage people to stay logged in, afk, run macros, etc.

If the intent is server load its backwards, but Im curious as to the why behind this decision.

2) 2 Characters for both patrons and non patrons. This I see as strange. Why are you limiting bith groups to 2. If you are already getting a sub out of patrons (and founders) is there a reason why we are limited? I see a lot of people making their first purchase to increse their pool to 4 on one server. SE had 2 sub models, 1 for 1 charcter per world max of 8 and a slighly more expensive one for 8 per world max of 40.

Rethinking this may be in order, unless the credits from the founder pack will cover the additional slots.

Pow
06-26-2014, 04:33 AM
Wow, gotta say I think the offline-LP-regen policy is not well thought out.

- First, kudos for an AFK system but I think it's not realistic to believe that this will solve the offline-LP-regen AFK problem. Even it if works as well as possible, it'll also take HUGE amounts of work on the part of your Customer Service staff to ban so many players for trying to circumvent it.

- Because a large % of the population WILL be trying. Why? There is WAY TOO MUCH CARROT for those who are able to successfully be online while AFK. You're working against human nature here... really think your system is robust enough to beat human nature? REALLY?

- You suggest the solution is to limit the # of character created on the server so that everyone can log in at the same time. So... we all play on ZOMBIE servers, where most the population is stealth AFK instead of active? And once all the AFKers are banned, it's tumbleweeds time on every server?

- Finally, do you hate the environment? Serious question, just think of all the fossil fuel energy powering those PCs required to keep such a high % of your players online all the time.

Obviously, I think this policy is bad for the game. Fine if you want to halt offline LP regen for F2P, one more reason for patron status. But please, work WITH human nature. Reward your paying customers with full offline LP regen. You'll reduce player frustration, and the game will feel more epic without all the AFK drama and you'll be doing something good for the only planet we have.

KeksX
06-26-2014, 04:38 AM
Didn't Trion say there will be no difference between offline and online regeneration?

KmZKaMiKaZe
06-26-2014, 04:39 AM
I must say most of you are so spoiled... think of the russians... getting 5LP/5min as Patron, 1LP/5min as non-patron... I mean seriously you people are crying about getting less LP when offline as patron while a F2P makes same amount being online while you sleep... Ofcourse you will gain more when online, why should they reward you same for not playing the game?

Ofcourse F2P will be harder and drawn out a lot more, if F2P would gain more then what would be the purpose of getting Patron?

Disco
06-26-2014, 04:40 AM
Didn't Trion say there will be no difference between offline and online regeneration?
Oh you mean this? http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?747-Labor-Point-Question-For-those-of-you-on-KR-RU&p=9187&viewfull=1#post9187

GiJoeJoe
06-26-2014, 04:40 AM
I swear this game better not become so messed up like stupid Star Wars; The old republics Cash shop where all you do is see how much money you can pour out of your player's / communities open spleen.

KeksX
06-26-2014, 04:41 AM
Oh you mean this? http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?747-Labor-Point-Question-For-those-of-you-on-KR-RU&p=9187&viewfull=1#post9187

Yup, exactly that.

Wangcai
06-26-2014, 04:55 AM
I must say most of you are so spoiled... think of the russians... getting 5LP/5min as Patron, 1LP/5min as non-patron... I mean seriously you people are crying about getting less LP when offline as patron while a F2P makes same amount being online while you sleep... Ofcourse you will gain more when online, why should they reward you same for not playing the game?

Ofcourse F2P will be harder and drawn out a lot more, if F2P would gain more then what would be the purpose of getting Patron?

It's not the problem of more LP or less LP, the problem is that there is a different between online LP and offline LP, which will force people to stay online 24/7

Westeller
06-26-2014, 05:03 AM
It's not the problem of more LP or less LP, the problem is that there is a different between online LP and offline LP, which will force people to stay online 24/7

I think there's a problem of more or less LP, too, but yes. That's a considerable issue~


Ofcourse F2P will be harder and drawn out a lot more, if F2P would gain more then what would be the purpose of getting Patron?

I understand that. I think it's of course a given that Patron should be set apart enough that players will definitely want to spend their money on it if they can. Labor Point regeneration rates are certainly an easy way to accomplish that, and I think this will definitely have the apparently desired effect of ensuring players will feel they can't live without it.

Yea. Can't live without it.

That's the problem, as I see it.

If a free player can't enjoy the game as it's advertised, without feeling that they have a gun to their head over the issue of paying for a subscription every month, then I have to say I feel that Trion is stepping away from their "No Tricks, No Traps" policy regardless of what they put in the Cash Shop.

Cushbraw
06-26-2014, 05:06 AM
Well. But your AFK-kicksystem wont work against bots... better think about that.

Disco
06-26-2014, 05:13 AM
You can't allow F2P accounts to regen offline, you just can't. It sucks, but it would destroy the economy in weeks with everyone making 20 accounts to endlessly craft, harvest, and farm.

jahlon
06-26-2014, 05:17 AM
Yup, exactly that.

Never put the cart before the horse...

We wont have different regen rates.....untill....we have different regen rates

-FP
06-26-2014, 05:24 AM
You can't allow F2P accounts to regen offline, you just can't. It sucks, but it would destroy the economy in weeks with everyone making 20 accounts to endlessly craft, harvest, and farm.


Never put the cart before the horse...

We wont have different regen rates.....untill....we have different regen rates

First quote has a point.

Westeller
06-26-2014, 05:24 AM
You can't allow F2P accounts to regen offline, you just can't. It sucks, but it would destroy the economy in weeks with everyone making 20 accounts to endlessly craft, harvest, and farm.

I think the game's economy, which is extremely flexible to begin with, is a secondary concern to ensuring that players receive a quality experience when they decide to download and play ArcheAge. I mean, let's face it. The economy can be golden, but if everyone hates the game, it doesn't matter the slightest bit... Labor point regeneration is just close enough to the heart of the game, with the way it's so firmly and irrevocably intertwined with the significant majority of activities in the game, that it can, and potentially will, have that kind of make or break it effect on the overall experience a player has with the game. I definitely think the regeneration rates should be carefully considered and adjusted to ensure that quality experience even at the cost of a negative impact to the game's economy.

Not that I believe such a sacrifice is necessary, even slightly, but I don't think the current regeneration rates are OK.

KeksX
06-26-2014, 05:27 AM
You can't allow F2P accounts to regen offline, you just can't. It sucks, but it would destroy the economy in weeks with everyone making 20 accounts to endlessly craft, harvest, and farm.

The fact that you regen more while online is bad enough. I agree that F2P players shouldn't regen while offline, but implying that ArcheAge is playable at F2P status implies that you have enough F2P to play.
That is clearly not the case.

This is not F2P. This is P2P with Free To Try, with all the bad things from F2P(Cash Shop, lots of room for botters), but none of the good stuff (F2P players are not viable, you will not have that large "F2P crowd keeping the game alive").

I don't mind that F2P players are not viable, I like their P2P approach, but then cut F2P players out completely and just slap a P2P with Cash Shop label on it. Done.

Valamir
06-26-2014, 05:29 AM
i dont like the difference in lp regen between online and offline too

the game risk to become an afk fest and i dont really see the benefits in forcing someone online to just "grind a timer", especially on people who pay to play the game (let them play the game as they want :P)

also i dont like the no offline regen for f2p, i suppose it is a measure vs goldsellers bots, but i think it will mostly impact the legit players as the goldsellers will be the first to circumvent your afk buster.
maybe reduce a bit the overall gain for f2p to not make alt mules too appealing but i feel they should get some offline regen too

Disco
06-26-2014, 05:30 AM
I think the game's economy, which is extremely flexible to begin with, is a secondary concern to ensuring that players receive a quality experience when they decide to download and play ArcheAge. I mean, let's face it. The economy can be golden, but if everyone hates the game, it doesn't matter the slightest bit... Labor point regeneration is just close enough to the heart of the game, with the way it's so firmly and irrevocably intertwined with the significant majority of activities in the game, that it can, and potentially will, have that kind of make or break it effect on the overall experience a player has with the game. I definitely think the regeneration rates should be carefully considered and adjusted to ensure that quality experience even at the cost of a negative impact to the game's economy.

Yeah, but I've seen economics crush a game and send people fleeing like crazy. Usually it is some exploit or something, but if you allow people to basically have endless LP it would completely destroy the mechanic itself. I was totally against this game being F2P at all for this and other reasons, but that ship has already sailed. I know it sucks just like the housing restriction, but the alternative is just game breaking.

ItalianHippo
06-26-2014, 05:30 AM
Great new information but just curious...
What happens if a player buys and builds a house while they have patron status but then their patron status runs out? Will they still have access to their house?

Cedwin
06-26-2014, 05:39 AM
Crafting detection is already implemented in the original and the russian version. I'm sure we're fine.

So all you need is a program that left clicks the Craft button every X amount of minutes. A stack of 100 items, with 1 item crafted every 15 minutes will let you AFK for 25 hours. Possibly longer depending on how long it is before the AFK "kick".

Disco
06-26-2014, 05:41 AM
Great new information but just curious...
What happens if a player buys and builds a house while they have patron status but then their patron status runs out? Will they still have access to their house?

Well it seems like you can buy something from the cash shop that will allow you to pay taxes if you don't have patron status. It also seems like they are leaving the door open for some type of reward status that will allow you to pay taxes without either patron or that CS item. My guess is that eventually if you accumulate enough points on your account you will be able to pay taxes, but that is speculation on my part just from playing rift and the wording they used in the APEX article.

Westeller
06-26-2014, 05:45 AM
Yeah, but I've seen economics crush a game and send people fleeing like crazy. Usually it is some exploit or something, but if you allow people to basically have endless LP it would completely destroy the mechanic itself. I was totally against this game being F2P at all for this and other reasons, but that ship has already sailed. I know it sucks just like the housing restriction, but the alternative is just game breaking.

I don't think offline regeneration to free to play accounts is the only alternative that ensures free to play is, as KeksX puts it, viable.

I think offline regeneration would, of course, do wonders for the experience free players have with the labor point system and, by extension, much of the game, but given the significant drawbacks of offline regeneration it would likely, as you suggest, have other, more detrimental, effects on the overall experience players have with the game.

Personally, my first guess would be to boost free to play's online regeneration. Having offline regeneration alone is already a significant advantage to Patron, so I don't think doing so would undercut the value of patron status overly much, but it would help ensure that free to play accounts weren't quite so.. pointless.

DaNeens
06-26-2014, 05:48 AM
I can see the AFK system either not working at all OR people getting kicked who aren't actually AFK.

Would much prefer everyone to re-gen LP Online AND Offline. Just give Patron a flat bonus re-gen. As long as it doesn't have to be in increments of 5 LP here is my suggestion:

Free Players re-gen 3LP/5 MIN 24/7
Patron Players re-gen 7LP/5 MIN 24/7

I agree, or you could make the difference in LP regen less drastic.

For example: offline 8 LP/5 min, and online 10 LP/5 min

Disco
06-26-2014, 05:57 AM
Personally, my first guess would be to boost free to play's online regeneration.

Ok, but boost it to what though? We don't even know what the online regen will be to start with for free accounts. You obviously can't make it the same as a patron otherwise you will just have everyone running afk free accounts all day spamming macros. That wouldn't be a great idea imo. Their really just is no good solution if they are sticking to the current business model so they are kind of stuck with the least terrible idea.

Westeller
06-26-2014, 06:05 AM
Ok, but boost it to what though? We don't even know what the online regen will be to start with for free accounts. You obviously can't make it the same as a patron otherwise you will just have everyone running afk free accounts all day spamming macros. That wouldn't be a great idea imo. Their really just is no good solution if they are sticking to the current business model so they are kind of stuck with the least terrible idea.

I assume it's 5/5. They seem to like increments of 5.

Oh, I'm sure they'll already be afk in-game all day long if they can be, given that they have no offline regeneration. I don't think making it the same as patron users would necessarily increase the likelihood that they'd do that. Of course, Trion's the one making the decisions, too, and they seem to think they can actually prevent players from afking in-game all day, so I don't think they'd consider that part of the problem at all~

Cedwin
06-26-2014, 06:12 AM
Just wanted to point out, if they actually do remove the "online" regen bonus, they'll most likely make it so Patron's get 5LP/5min at all times, there's no way they would give us 10/5 like it is in alpha currently.

Xenon
06-26-2014, 06:22 AM
My Questions:

1. Patron status will be for account or character ?
2. There is any anti-bot solution ?
3. There will be item in Item Shop to reservation place for big farm like on ArcheAge RU
4. The new Alpha Server will be open at this same time when you give us patch 1.2? ( next week )
5. That costume from Founder will be only Plate? Because it's named: " Desert Assassin Platemail "
6. What we can get from DARU Chest because this is new item and we want know it
7. What about farms hidden under texture we can see on all maps?
8. Items from founder's will be for All account characters or only for 1 character ?


Thanks for Answer


Xenon

Southernstar71
06-26-2014, 06:23 AM
They have to rethink the "Bonus" LP re-gen for Patron as well as no offline re-gen for F2P. Otherwise the game will be overflowing with AFK players AND AFK bots.

Just make it so everyone re-gens LP whether online or offline. Patrons status just re-gens more. I had suggested 7/5 3/5. This gives Patrons 2016 LP per day and F2P 864 LP per day. So F2P re-gen at 43% the rate of a Patron.

If 864 LP per day is too much for a F2P just make them 2/5 and they are done to 576 per day. Still too much, make them 1/5 and they get 288 per day.

Just make it so there is no difference between ONLINE/OFFLINE re-gen.

ssxtriki
06-26-2014, 06:25 AM
My Questions:

1. Patron status will be for account or character ?


Account i presume like RU and KR

Valamir
06-26-2014, 06:25 AM
We are currently exploring options for allowing free accounts to also have the ability to build housing and pay taxes after ArcheAge launches while preventing abuse of this permission.

for f2p housing a simple solution could be to let players rent a flat in various towns, this way they will not occupy any precious land and they will still be able to have most of the benefits of an house.

the flat could be a small instance for the player to decorate as he likes and with a storage equal or smaller to a real house, ofc as an instance it should not be possible to teleport directly into it but other features should still be present, taxes should still be payed for the flat as for normal houses and maybe there could be different flats type depending by the building/town it is located.

to have a system like that could be benefical even to non f2p players as patron players not interested in the farm space of the house may opt for a flat or, if it gets hard to find the land it could still provide room for storage or even works as a sort of beginner house, offering a cheaper access to some housing features before moving to a real house.

Westeller
06-26-2014, 06:30 AM
While I approve of your innovation, Valamir, I don't think suggested changes that require development are agreeable solutions to any of our problems, given that we could likely be waiting many months or longer to see even the most rational and necessary of changes being made, much less the more controversial and lower priority.

ssxtriki
06-26-2014, 06:32 AM
for f2p housing a simple solution could be to let players rent a flat in various towns, this way they will not occupy any precious land and they will still be able to have most of the benefits of an house.

the flat could be a small instance for the player to decorate as he likes and with a storage equal or smaller to a real house, ofc as an instance it should not be possible to teleport directly into it but other features should still be present, taxes should still be payed for the flat as for normal houses and maybe there could be different flats type depending by the building/town it is located.

to have a system like that could be benefical even to non f2p players as patron players not interested in the farm space of the house may opt for a flat or, if it gets hard to find the land it could still provide room for storage or even works as a sort of beginner house, offering a cheaper access to some housing features before moving to a real house.

Your suggesting they add a game system that is not in the game? rly? they did not make the game they cant make up stuff like that

Wolfhammer
06-26-2014, 06:50 AM
I was expecting a bit more from Trion when it came to F2P features.

You have no right to expect anything as a freeloader... Get patron with game gold and a less entitled attitude please.

Bitfly
06-26-2014, 06:54 AM
"Free accounts will be able to make purchases from the Auction House but will not be able to post their own listings by default, nor do they regenerate Labor Points while offline."

Hope this won't ruin anything. I can see how it would, though

Xenon
06-26-2014, 07:02 AM
and then join us on Thursday afternoon on Twitch.

So today will be the stream?

Valamir
06-26-2014, 07:05 AM
Your suggesting they add a game system that is not in the game? rly? they did not make the game they cant make up stuff like that

as i understand there are alredy instanced dungeons in the game, so the engine alredy handles instances... then ofc i dont know the engine and how difficult is the implementation and as you say trion is just the publisher and not the developer and thats why it is just a suggestion/idea :P

Eley
06-26-2014, 07:19 AM
Bonus online Labor Point regeneration (10 per 5 minutes)
Offline Labor Point regeneration (5 per 5 minutes)
No! It's very bad thing and directly encourages using macro and bots to avoid AFK kick. In combination with start spike, this will cause crazy queues on top servers. Please, don't do that. We want to play with people, not bots and afking characters.

Poppaea
06-26-2014, 07:41 AM
If there must be a difference between regen rate online and offline, I agree with the comments that patrons should regen faster offline than online. This way most patrons actually would get more of that "bonus" rate on a daily basis. Say you play 4 hours a day then you would have 20 hours at the accelerated regen rate. With the current proposed route you would only get 4 hours of the accelerated rate.

Or just make it 5/5 whether you are online or off.

Xenon
06-26-2014, 07:43 AM
No! It's very bad thing and directly encourages using macro and bots to avoid AFK kick. In combination with start spike, this will cause crazy queues on top servers. Please, don't do that. We want to play with people, not bots and afking characters.


They said : You use macro you will be banned. Simple

Southernstar71
06-26-2014, 07:46 AM
They said : You use macro you will be banned. Simple

This will just lead to people being banned who shouldn't be.....

Xenon
06-26-2014, 07:52 AM
This will just lead to people being banned who shouldn't be.....

Why just respect rules :) For my is good idea because if you have macro you can make auto fishing or something other.

Sharpe
06-26-2014, 07:56 AM
This will just lead to people being banned who shouldn't be.....

Actually I do firmly believe that afk macro'ing (or any macro'ing to be honest) should be a bannable offense. One strike and you're out.

What I am against is giving people reasons to want to macro in order to stay competitive. You should gain the same LP when online as when you're offline.

I have the best of both worlds, I am currently "officially" unemployed, yet make quite alot of money each month from royalties... I have the time to waste in an MMO like this, but people who have to work 8 or 9 hours a day will not. Even if we're paying the same to play the game. And these people will not have a chance in hell to be competitive with me in labour points. Unless they macro to avoid the afk kick system.

Southernstar71
06-26-2014, 07:59 AM
Why just respect rules :) For my is good idea because if you have macro you can make auto fishing or something other.

Where did I say to not respect the rules??? I said it will lead to people being banned who shouldn't be.

KmZKaMiKaZe
06-26-2014, 08:04 AM
Where did I say to not respect the rules??? I said it will lead to people being banned who shouldn't be.

Where did they say you will get banned? Only says
Not with our AFK kick timer in place, they won't.

And I am fairly sure they said they will not ban people that AFK level their mounts, I can not get the source cause I am to lazy to search for something I don't really care about :P

Southernstar71
06-26-2014, 08:07 AM
They said : You use macro you will be banned. Simple


Where did they say you will get banned? Only says

And I am fairly sure they said they will not ban people that AFK level their mounts, I can not get the source cause I am to lazy to search for something I don't really care about :P



Just read this and you will see.....

Xenon
06-26-2014, 08:11 AM
Where did they say you will get banned?



They said macro not allowed in AA

Disco
06-26-2014, 08:21 AM
And I am fairly sure they said they will not ban people that AFK level their mounts, I can not get the source cause I am to lazy to search for something I don't really care about :P

They don't care about afk leveling mounts in alpha because they will have an afk timer on release which will take care of that particular problem.

Lirulin
06-26-2014, 08:25 AM
People get out of the AFK timer by running their horse in circles which also lets them level up the horse so I am glad to hear that will go away at launch. I believe this is a good idea IN THEORY but you need to understand if the labor is shifted around more people will stay online but afk to regen in the initial weeks. Later on... say 4 months after release when most farmland is taken and there are no places left and everyone is set up -- then you could change things and you might not have as many issues but... who knows. It's a risk that is for sure.

SO MANY BOT-FARMERS - I saw one yesterday that, with many of us standing around waiting to get the land, he ran into the ground *under the ground* and then used a hack to place his fully created house upon that area. There was no building no construction just people who wanted to get this land and suddenly a house!!!

Sonnelion
06-26-2014, 08:26 AM
Even if Riot does choose to ban everyone who uses a macro, using a dipping bird or something like that to hit a key isn't against the ToS at all. There are always ways around anti-afk systems no matter what you do. The only way Riot could prevent any afk would be to check the players movements over a larger period of time and look for patterns. However the processing power required to do that for a player base of this size makes it totally unrealistic to do so.

That being said it is a huge mistake for Riot to even consider having a different LP regen value for online vs offline Patron status. Any rational human being will always gravitate towards whatever gives them the greatest benefit. I know personally I'd try to stay online inside my house for as long as possible just to regen the LP while I'm at work; and yes I would have something rigged to prevent the afk while staying within the ToS.

I'm not trying to hate on the F2P accounts but as many have said it would be game breaking for F2P accounts to have LP regen while offline. Unless Riot is going to start registering accounts to IP or MAC addresses there would be nothing preventing people from having an unlimited number of free accounts with only a few Patron accounts for farm land. This is of course on a much larger scale for generating gold, but some people will go to great lengths to make money.

Dotti
06-26-2014, 08:28 AM
Trion, are you aware of the fact that ALL the AA-bot programs on the market have the ability to send in game mail? It is a simple thing to create 100 FTP bot accounts and have them send their loot to one account which has AH access.

I agree with most of the posts already, that online/offline regen for patrons should be the same. The whole concept seems very amateur and thrown together in a hurry.

Manoman, I thought you guys were professionals.

Ghana
06-26-2014, 08:35 AM
I would like to say if your doing this regen model in AA i will not be playing, i played the RU AA and it was harsh man i liked it at first, then you get to the part where you like i need lp and if i log off i will not get any and then your like well i better stay on online then, then your like why are these people on mounts going in a circle, wait im going to do this so i can get lp while i sleep. BAD IDEA trion don't do it just have patroon 10/5 min online and free to play 5/5 online then ftp and patroon 5/5 offline that way it will be fair and people will log off lol and you will still get patroons staying online but it will not be as many as it would be if you keep this model you have now and also free to play players it will not matter if they stay online or go offline because they will get the same amount so you stopped alot off afking there


Just an idea use it lol because this thing you have now sucks

warlove
06-26-2014, 08:36 AM
I'm starting to really regret getting the founders pack($150). This game already has some flawed ,IMO, game breaking things about it and now Trion comes with this LP regen system that is seriously flawed. Forget all the harm it does to the game but at a time in history when everyone should know that conserving energy is of importance, their best idea is to insure people will stay logged in 24/7. (shakes head)

Ghana
06-26-2014, 08:43 AM
tottaly agree with you its a joke, and i think there player base will drop when its released because i stoped playing aa ru because the LP system sucked, and they should have the AH set like rift where if you spend so much money you get loyalty points and you unlock stuff thats awesome i love that simple idea they should do that here with the AH Houses and stuff its just better because then i would play with a free account like i do rift and spend money for in game credits and unlock stuff as i need or want it

Southernstar71
06-26-2014, 08:48 AM
I wish they had floated this idea before going so PUBLIC with it. They are kind of backed into a corner and I can see them being stubborn and not changing. This will be a HUGE mistake.

Rewarding people for staying online 24/7 is BAD GAME DESIGN. EVERYONE will attempt to stay logged in because it's the ONLY way to have enough LP to do the things you need to do.

This will give you HUGE numbers of F2P accounts ALL attempting to stay online 24/7 funneling their crafting/fishing to ONE main account that may or may not be a Patron account.

I can easily see me having a F2P account that I will have on my laptop that I will move around while I'm playing my MAIN on my desktop. At bedtime I can see my F2P guy fishing all night while I sleep using the LP he generates while I'm able to legit move him around on the laptop during the day.

Just think of the people who have 5 to 10 to ?? computers and can effectively LEGIT move every so often. If they miss the timer, they can just log back in and keep going while playing their real account on their main computer.


REWARDING online time is severely PUNITIVE to people with only one computer.

Marawyn
06-26-2014, 08:54 AM
So my only major issue with this thing is this


Free Accounts... nor do they regenerate Labor Points while offline.

This is going to promote a lot of people to afk while online which will subsequently cause the servers to be overloaded with free accounts. I've seen it happen many times before and am hoping Trion has a solution in place to counteract this.

Riddim
06-26-2014, 08:55 AM
tottaly agree with you its a joke, and i think there player base will drop when its released because i stoped playing aa ru because the LP system sucked, and they should have the AH set like rift where if you spend so much money you get loyalty points and you unlock stuff thats awesome i love that simple idea they should do that here with the AH Houses and stuff its just better because then i would play with a free account like i do rift and spend money for in game credits and unlock stuff as i need or want it

I have said this in my old arguments also, it seems more logical, and just right, I mean why would i Pay for patron for what? extra LP, regain offline LP, and the other measly benefits I mean cmon they are practically taking 1 whole great game and cutting it up into tiny pieces then dishing it out to the highest bidder, its completely silly. Adding a Tier AH, that rewards players who donate time to time, is the best way forward for MMOs ahead, paying Sub is just quick money, but also leads to quick fail. AA is to great to fail I think the developers need to have More faith in the game. and not Judge people all the time based on what they THINK.

Ghana
06-26-2014, 08:56 AM
this is so strange people who play mmorpg's actually agreeing on something lol

KmZKaMiKaZe
06-26-2014, 08:58 AM
Archeage forums is best entertainment forum ever, people crying about LP is just hilarious :D Want everything handed to you and come with arguments that they can't play as much as others and others will have advantage :D I mean come on all of you speculating so much when obviously none of the other releases (korea, russia etc.) don't have this problem atm.

I for one Support this Labor Point system and Honestly don't think i will have to leave my computer on just to gain that 5 extra LP. I was expecting 5LP/5min before they came out with this but getting 10LP/5min just gonna be awesome

Riddim
06-26-2014, 08:58 AM
I wish they had floated this idea before going so PUBLIC with it. They are kind of backed into a corner and I can see them being stubborn and not changing. This will be a HUGE mistake.

Rewarding people for staying online 24/7 is BAD GAME DESIGN. EVERYONE will attempt to stay logged in because it's the ONLY way to have enough LP to do the things you need to do.

This will give you HUGE numbers of F2P accounts ALL attempting to stay online 24/7 funneling their crafting/fishing to ONE main account that may or may not be a Patron account.

I can easily see me having a F2P account that I will have on my laptop that I will move around while I'm playing my MAIN on my desktop. At bedtime I can see my F2P guy fishing all night while I sleep using the LP he generates while I'm able to legit move him around on the laptop during the day.

Just think of the people who have 5 to 10 to ?? computers and can effectively LEGIT move every so often. If they miss the timer, they can just log back in and keep going while playing their real account on their main computer.


REWARDING online time is severely PUNITIVE to people with only one computer.


Preach brother, ++++, but the question is will they see the message, will they realise or just ignore the people. that is the true issue

ssxtriki
06-26-2014, 08:59 AM
so your forcing ppl be online on PC longer than offline so they could dmg theyr health more? also encouraging ppl to use macros bots and so on just not to go offline and make huge ques? well that makes sense ! GJ Trion

Poppaea
06-26-2014, 09:00 AM
this is so strange people who play mmorpg's actually agreeing on something lol

I think this change impacts casuals, hardcore, PVEers, PVPers the same way. That is why the communities voice is mostly one one side.

Who wants to leave their computer on just get the most LP? Even if we don't like the idea many of us will try to find ways to stay online because otherwise its like we are leaving LP on the table.

Riddim
06-26-2014, 09:03 AM
so your forcing ppl be online on PC longer than offline so they could dmg theyr health more? also encouraging ppl to use macros bots and so on just not to go offline and make huge ques? well that makes sense ! GJ Trion

And whilst this is being done, Every profit they are making already would be spent in developing anti cheat anti this anti that system :D thus wasting time fighting back there own customers, rather than coming to a rational solution!

Ghana
06-26-2014, 09:03 AM
yep IMO they should have 10 every 5 mins for patroons and 5 every 5 for ftp and that's online, but offline should be 5 every 5 mins for everyone at least then you will cut out ftp players afking because it will not make any difference if there online or offline it makes sense to me

Poppaea
06-26-2014, 09:08 AM
yep IMO they should have 10 every 5 mins for patroons and 5 every 5 for ftp and that's online, but offline should be 5 every 5 mins for everyone at least then you will cut out ftp players afking because it will not make any difference if there online or offline it makes sense to me

Well that doesn't address part of the population that will still AFK to milk the extra LP. If anyone is AFKing its not a good system. It's bad enough this game has other AFK activities such as junior fishing and crafting. Don't get me wrong I do fish and craft but I end up watching tv on another screen and basically just keep an eye on my character to make sure no one tries to push them off a cliff or into the water. So now I'd have another reason to keep the game running...

Riddim
06-26-2014, 09:09 AM
yep IMO they should have 10 every 5 mins for patroons and 5 every 5 for ftp and that's online, but offline should be 5 every 5 mins for everyone at least then you will cut out ftp players afking because it will not make any difference if there online or offline it makes sense to me

but for some weird reason my friend it does not appear to make sense to Business men/women hehe

Ghana
06-26-2014, 09:10 AM
Well that doesn't address part of the population that will still AFK to milk the extra LP. If anyone is AFKing its not a good system.

yeah i suppose but still the ftp want gain anything by staying online, or a quick idea everone gets the same amount of lp but patroon's get a % took of how much points is need to craft something BINGO i worked it out lol there you go use that idea

scootercats360
06-26-2014, 09:10 AM
Really looking forward to testing out the Market Place. Hoping the additional server will help create more housing spots as people pull up their scarecrow farms and move.

xLenno
06-26-2014, 09:14 AM
Sorry, but i need to talk it.

"NO TRICKS, NO TRAPS"

GG Trion :P

Zariyan
06-26-2014, 09:20 AM
As someone who plans to be both a patron and active player, I both agree and disagree with the current approach.

Not sure how good the AFK-kicker will end up being, but if by some miracle it can eliminate AFKers without kicking out regular players, then this approach can be successful. Since Patron can be obtained by F2P members, it'd even bring it more value. However, if the AFK-kicker is unable to keep out players that use macros and third party applications to stay online, then it'll clog up the servers and backfire completely.

Overall, I think the best solution would be to award LP even when offline because it will decrease the amount of people looking for ways to game the system.

I'm sure that Patron will still be extremely valuable if non-patrons offline get 3, or even 5 LP every 5 minutes when offline.

Kosikredki
06-26-2014, 09:22 AM
Hi i have a question.
If I buy Patron Status , and buy a house or farm , and after 30days Patron Status will be expired. this means that I lost my house or farm ? Did I need buy month after month Patron Status to keep house ?

Ghana
06-26-2014, 09:25 AM
tbh i don't think there is a way to stop afk player, they could prob work something out to stop macro programs, but whats stopping me using my old keyboard that has some sticky keys (not what your thinking i spilled coke lol) and use that so im constantly running or jumping they could never stop it i don't think unless they sort the LP system out so no one needs to stay online

Poppaea
06-26-2014, 09:41 AM
Hi i have a question.
If I buy Patron Status , and buy a house or farm , and after 30days Patron Status will be expired. this means that I lost my house or farm ? Did I need buy month after month Patron Status to keep house ?

I think you may need patron status to pay taxes (in-game). You don't really own land in this game, you rent it and must pay taxes weekly. As I understand only Patrons can pay taxes.

Yoder
06-26-2014, 09:41 AM
@Scapes

IMHO, making any reward proportional to time spent connected is a dangerous proposition.

When a connection to the server is made, resources are consumed (memory, network\server capacity, etc), and these resources are ideally being used by active customers using the product.

Having a reason to stay connected to the server that is not a direct consequence of active game play can lead to segments of the population using up resources needlessly. This wastes server resources that can be used by active customers, and could lead to server capacity being reached needlessly by customers connected just to obtain a reward.

If a game mechanic provides a reward just for just being connected, methods will be created to exploit that opportunity. This can become a very expensive cat and mouse game.

I would suggest that it would be best to eliminate the connection reward mechanic altogether.

Thank you.

Poppaea
06-26-2014, 09:45 AM
IMHO, making any reward proportional to time spent connected is a dangerous proposition.


Great post! You are completely right. Trion is not rewarding you for playing, they are rewarding your for being online.

Zariyan
06-26-2014, 09:50 AM
Hi i have a question.
If I buy Patron Status , and buy a house or farm , and after 30days Patron Status will be expired. this means that I lost my house or farm ? Did I need buy month after month Patron Status to keep house ?You need patron to pay taxes, so yes, you need patron to keep your house/farms. If I remember correctly, you have roughly 2 weeks after you run out of patron to get it sorted out (sell your property, get patron again, etc). Though at endgame, I'm fairly certain that two weeks would be more than enough time to buy patron again with in-game currency if you know your way around the game.

Deathshades
06-26-2014, 09:56 AM
whaaaat?!? so what about if you have jail time? no more afk jail sentence... and afk mount lvling? since technically I am hitting a button to turn

i think thats be great then they be forecd to do there time the right way and it be a real punshment sys :)

IKShadow
06-26-2014, 09:59 AM
Why? It's a bonus, they could remove the bonus and leave it at 5 per 5 both online and offline... I mean what's the logic, you would give up the online bonus just because you would feel obligated? If some people has more time to be online, good for them, world is not based on communism.

Its about exploiting the game mechanics to stay online as much as possible in AFK mode eg players who would actually play will stay in ques.
Making online bonus is really bad idea and it should be canceled.

zefs
06-26-2014, 10:02 AM
I don't see how you can protect the economy against all the F2P players by not giving them access to sell on the Auction House. What will prevent the bots/gold sellers from purchasing this low cost Marketplace item when we've seen that they have been purchasing a $150 founder pack to sell gold in Alpha? I am sure gold-selling websites will be able to afford this item and you will see no change against them by using this method.

To protect the economy you could be banning bots and gold sellers by monitoring the servers(and not after days/weeks of a ticket report). I hope it works though, although I seriously doubt it.

Also, we can not test this system in alpha/beta since the credits won't cost you anything(obviously).
My personal opinion is that using GM's is a far better option to fight the gold sellers/bots.

In the end, I believe that what you call "protect the economy" is what will ruin it, since gold sellers will be purchasing this item so they can sell items on Auction House(and earn gold so they can sell them for $), which for Trion means more money on their end.

DaltonOB
06-26-2014, 10:03 AM
Maybe I am missing something but why not just just give f2p players 5/5 and patron players 10/5 for both offline and online? If they think it is too much labor they can just increase the labor costs slightly or even just go down to 4/5 and 8/5 or something similar? Also, they already give the incentive to go online consistently with the daily loyalty points.

Noira
06-26-2014, 10:06 AM
If free to play accounts gained labor while offline, wouldn't everyone just make a ton of alt accounts for infinite labor?

Though that might still be preferable compared to AFKers everywhere.

UnDeAdKiTtY
06-26-2014, 10:10 AM
even something as small as a 1 labor point per 5 min for non patron accounts will stop people from afking farming labor points, Trion please reconsider. This kind of stuff will kill the game in the US before it even takes off the ground.

This is why people rage and call Korean games pay to win and they will avoid it and never give this game a chance. Its a death knell, please don't do this.

Deathshades
06-26-2014, 10:17 AM
So I did the math, at least I think I did it correctly. And using the 10/5 online,5/5 offline and then 5/5 online I calculated the amount of time it would take to max out 5000 labor points and 2000 labor points.

It goes something like this:

Patrons:

10LP/5min: 10*x=5000
xminutes=500
500min/60=8.33333...hours
8.3333.... hours -8 = .3333...minutes.
.333....minutes *60 =20minutes
So for Patrons, it takes 8 hours and 20 minutes to max out labor points online. I won't do the math for the next two because it's similar to the first equation I did, just substitute 10 for to get offline patron status, and 10 for 5 as well as 5000 for 2000 for F2P while online only.
Patrons Offline only takes 16 hours and 40 minutes to gain 5000LP.
Free to Play online only takes 6 hours and 40 minutes to gain 2000LP.

I don't even know why I did the math, it seemed fun, but not exactly meriting an entirely new post of its own. But its there for peeps who want to know the exact numbers.


your math is wrong its 41.666666 hours so 41.6 hours
you did 10 mins per 10 its 10 points per FIVE mins so it be 2500 mins in all for 5k it
5000 / 10 = 500 then
5 mins x 500 = 2500 mins
2500 mins /60 mins hour = 41.666666

so its takes online 41.6 hours reach full online 5k again

why yours wrong
max point you get per hour are 120 then you x that by 8 = 960 in 8 hours not 5k

by same ya x that by 24 h u get 2880 so it take you just under 42 hours witch at 42 hour mark you have 5040

LlexX
06-26-2014, 10:20 AM
"No Tricks, No Traps"

http://images15.fotki.com/v1624/photos/3/2835663/12460452/TrionAABusModel1-vi.png
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/We+see+what+you+did+there_89686e_3811699.jpg

Darwand
06-26-2014, 10:20 AM
Maybe it shouldnt be labor reg for being online, like everyone is saying. Wouldnt it be better if u need to do some kind of activity, like craft/do a quest/buy something every hour or something.

Poppaea
06-26-2014, 10:27 AM
For todays stream I hope they discuss when the 1.2 patch/download will be available for preloading. Because it will take hours do download and I want to have it ready before the servers come up next Thursday.

Westeller
06-26-2014, 10:28 AM
If we're doing math.

Simple fishing - nothing fancy like sports fishing, just crafting a simple rod - takes 5 LP per 1 cast, each cast taking approximately 2 seconds or so. This means that a non-patron player, at 5 LP per 5 minutes, regenerates enough LP for 2 seconds of fishing every 5 minutes they're online, and none offline. In six hours of playing, they'll have racked up enough LP - 360 LP (Yes, 360. You read that number right. This is about what you can expect for your full day of playing.) - for a grand total of about 2 minutes of fishing. YAY. FREE PLAYERS CAN FISH, GUYS!

I love fishing as an example of just how stupidly restricting LP can be if you're provided too little. It's the perfect example, in my opinion, of that kind of random thing you might want to do with your day; that you supposedly have the option to do in this amazing free-to-play game.

Y'know, the one where you're encouraged to do whatever you want!

Unfortunately, it's not an option a free player has. Period.

SteveT
06-26-2014, 10:30 AM
http://babblingbrookesblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/challenge-accepted.jpg

RL, Chuckle....I think this is so funny :-)

Poppaea
06-26-2014, 10:30 AM
If we're doing math.

Simple fishing - nothing fancy like sports fishing, just crafting a simple rod - takes 5 LP per 1 cast, each cast taking approximately 2 seconds or so. This means that a non-patron player, at 5 LP per 5 minutes, regenerates enough LP for 2 seconds of fishing every 5 minutes they're online, and none offline. In six hours of playing, they'll have racked up enough LP - 360 LP (Yes, 360. You read that number right. This is about what you can expect for your full day of playing.) - for a grand total of about 2 minutes of fishing. YAY. FREE PLAYERS CAN FISH, GUYS!

They won't be able to craft armor too easily either. Especially lvl 44 gear.

Westeller
06-26-2014, 10:35 AM
They won't be able to craft armor too easily either. Especially lvl 44 gear.

Oh for sure. Forget it.

360 LP a day for, as per my example, six hours of playing?

Y'know..

I dare a free player to even try to have a single 20k proficiency within the first two months they play.

..No, wait. I'm sorry. In two months they'll have racked up approximately 21960 LP if they play for a consistent 6 hours every single day, never missing a day. That means the only way they could possibly have a 20k proficiency is if someone else was feeding them every mat they ever needed. Getting 10k in anything will be a challenge to do in 2 months, without that assistance.

Throw the RNG crafting into it and they're just screwed all over when it comes to gear.
Giving up on crafting entirely is probably their best bet to preserve their sanity.
At least they can spend all of their play time grinding out those Aurorian mobs or something.

Poppaea
06-26-2014, 10:48 AM
..No, wait. I'm sorry. In two months they'll have racked up approximately 21960 LP if they play for a consistent 6 hours every single day, never missing a day.

Ouch! That's a great example. I was thinking about how when I was tailoring my gear the hood alone took 600lp to craft. You need 6/7 armor pieces for a full set and the pants and shirt require a lot more LP than the hood does. Even if you were lucky it would take a few weeks to craft a full set.

Of course if you AFK it you can speed things up a bit...

Deathshades
06-26-2014, 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by Scapes View Post
"No Tricks, No Traps"
ok here my take on all this

1. laber point be fine way they are it works fine in KR vers and yes could be over all pain but it work
2.Qs should be fine there not issues in KR v so should be fine BUT to my 3rd
3. AFKing will be issue and will be hard stop even with a ANTI afk sys do few reasons some Keyboards use sys that lets key macros be sent just like if you hit them your self so no way tell if it was macro or keyboard so Good Look with that 1..

4 and i think the MOST UNFAIR AH cant be used to sell items
this why i think this need be fixed
4.1 its F2P players have no real means make ingame gold if they cant post on AH sell stuff
4.2 if players cant make gold by selling on AH that means they do it by Direct Trade witch means more Scams and way more Spam in chat ..
4.3 Quote Originally Posted by Scapes View Post
"No Tricks, No Traps" but this is not FAIR in ANY WAY if they cant sell there stuff they cant make gold to buy Patrion packs out AH
fix this or i see the game dieing out

i know i be buying a monthly pack but my friends wont nor 1/2 or more my guild and this makes it hard on them and i know if i was F2P player i leave game this most BS thing i ever seen

Expendable
06-26-2014, 11:04 AM
"No Tricks, No Traps" approach to free-to-play

This sounds exactly like a trick or trap to me. A way to trick players into paying real money for labor restoring potions. A way to trap the poorer players who afk for LP to keep up with their wealthier peers. "Sorry bro you are banned for not giving us enough money!!!" The whole thing reeks of a money making scheme. Why cant you just give 10 points all the time logged in or not? Even better would be a small bonus for being logged off and freeing up server resources.




http://images15.fotki.com/v1624/photos/3/2835663/12460452/TrionAABusModel1-vi.png
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/We+see+what+you+did+there_89686e_3811699.jpg

They are already lying and the game isn't even released.

Devin
06-26-2014, 11:13 AM
Well after the greedy 150 dollar buy to play package it was predictable... Trion made pay to win concept.

If trion were as good in doing their job as good in wanting our money, we could play since 1 year ago now... :D

XLgames made a terrible mistake to choose trion for europe...

Fly666monkey
06-26-2014, 11:16 AM
I don't see how you can protect the economy against all the F2P players by not giving them access to sell on the Auction House. What will prevent the bots/gold sellers from purchasing this low cost Marketplace item when we've seen that they have been purchasing a $150 founder pack to sell gold in Alpha? I am sure gold-selling websites will be able to afford this item and you will see no change against them by using this method.

This man has a point.

Not only this, but the game is loaded mostly client-side. (Who thought THAT was a good idea!?) And the only safeguard in the game right now is Hackshield. (HAHAHAHAHAHA.) The game is simply too juicy and easy of a target for a little paywall to stop the botters.

Trion, I don't think you guys appreciate how much of an uphill battle this is going to be.

Edit: You guys seriously think you can stop botting and AFK macros when you can't even keep your forums from getting spammed to death?!

SCHound
06-26-2014, 11:23 AM
I have to agree there is no upside for anyone in regard to the online offline LP regen. Just invites abuse for no good reason

Poppaea
06-26-2014, 11:26 AM
They are already lying and the game isn't even released.

I'll give them some slack on the original post because the intention was earnest at the time. We complain when they don't say stuff and it's because things can change and we get mad when things change. So then they say nothing.

I don't fault Amary for saying what she did at the time, but we can voice our concerns with the new direction they have announced recently.

Megadone
06-26-2014, 11:28 AM
2 topics on this? both legit?

anyways I left my comment in 2nd topic so I won't say it here, but what I will say is... game is in Alpha, a lot can change, slow down with frustration and lets see what happens in livestream

Wix
06-26-2014, 11:29 AM
Will you guys be implementing any type of queue system to enter dungeons? This way people don't have to run around and ask others if they want to do a dungeon or kill a boss?

Thanks,

Devin
06-26-2014, 11:35 AM
Russians made an online community protest when mail.ru tried to ruin their archeage server.

Why don't we start another one against trion's greediness and lies?

Expendable
06-26-2014, 11:42 AM
Russians made an online community protest when mail.ru tried to ruin their archeage server.

Why don't we start another one against trion's greediness and lies?


Sign me up.

Deathshades
06-26-2014, 11:46 AM
Russians made an online community protest when mail.ru tried to ruin their archeage server.

Why don't we start another one against trion's greediness and lies?

there not being GREEDY they trying new things on are servers game still in Alpha all this can change just let them know what wrong and they try diff setup tell they get it right just COME down

zefs
06-26-2014, 11:50 AM
there not being GREEDY they trying new things on are servers game still in Alpha all this can change just let them know what wrong and they try diff setup tell they get it right just COME down

You cant test these on alpha/beta since there won't be any money involved. Mmorpg community is not forgiving these days, if they decide to use these methods on release and people don't like them don't expect them to come up later after the damage has been done.

Expendable
06-26-2014, 11:52 AM
there not being GREEDY they trying new things on are servers game still in Alpha all this can change just let them know what wrong and they try diff setup tell they get it right just COME down

Are you sure that you are from Tulsa Oklahoma? Have the schools gotten that bad over there?

Deathshades
06-26-2014, 11:57 AM
Are you sure that you are from Tulsa Oklahoma? Have the schools gotten that bad over there?
i live in Oklahoma not From here thou

You cant test these on alpha/beta since there won't be any money involved. Mmorpg community is not forgiving these days, if they decide to use these methods on release and people don't like them don't expect them to come up later after the damage has been done.
they have already said that store will be going live also to test the cash shops and how we like whats in them so on so

yes they are in Alpha and beta soon but all can change just tell them dont bash them
there track record shows great i played all there games they came out with and all them are Fair at Release so i have Faith in them tell Release if thay dont hold up i just go to new game

Devin
06-26-2014, 12:05 PM
there not being GREEDY they trying new things on are servers game still in Alpha all this can change just let them know what wrong and they try diff setup tell they get it right just COME down

I hope you are a paid trion worker, and thats why you wrote that... otherwise...

They had 1 and half year for testing, and learning from others experience.
Korean server started open beta 1 and half year ago.
Japan server started open beta 1 year ago.
Russian server started open beta half year ago.

Everyone is sure about they know what are they doing... stop trolling around :D

Grinchybitch
06-26-2014, 12:05 PM
Are you sure that you are from Tulsa Oklahoma? Have the schools gotten that bad over there?
Schools have gotten this bad all over the entire country. I constantly lambaste people in the game about their grammar and spelling. I lament the state of illiteracy, incomprehension, unenlightenment and mental incapacity that this country has fallen into. These are the future leaders of the free world.... boy, the world is in trouble for sure.

zefs
06-26-2014, 12:05 PM
i live in Oklahoma not From here thou

they have already said that store will be going live also to test the cash shops and how we like whats in them so on so

yes they are in Alpha and beta soon but all can change just tell them dont bash them
there track record shows great i played all there games they came out with and all them are Fair at Release so i have Faith in them tell Release if thay dont hold up i just go to new game

Alright, can you tell me how locking AH for f2p players will prevent the economy from getting destroyed? Gold-sellers won't be able to afford the item needed to be able to sell on the AH or do you think they will be trying to sell their items on trade chat? (that would be fun).

Wix
06-26-2014, 12:08 PM
I believe everyone is really over thinking this. Yeah they have a BOT program that will be in place. Will it catch everything, probably not. I'm sure it will cut down a decent amount of the BOT population. As for the AFK timer, same thing, and just Ban those accounts who abuse the system like other games. Perhaps put in some type of reporting system in game where we can open tickets to GM's. This way they can actually investigate it on their end.

The AH is not the only thing in game for F2P players to do or make gold from. Frankly, they don't ever even need to be a part of it.
The thing about AA I like is doing trade runs to earn gold. That is the fun part. Going into enemy territory with your packs and taking a chance to get them jacked. Or having a huge group of people with you doing a run and having an all out war where factions try to take your stuff. With all there is to do in this game, I honestly cant see a F2P player getting upset over not having access to the DAM AH.

zefs
06-26-2014, 12:11 PM
With all there is to do in this game, I honestly cant see a F2P player getting upset over not having access to the DAM AH.

It's not as much that, as the reason behind it. This will not help having a healthy economy because it won't prevent bots from selling their items. If they wanted to do that they wouldn't be including a cheap item in the Marketplace. They are doing it to earn more money and I am not ok with it because I feel I am being lied to on this part.

Devin
06-26-2014, 12:13 PM
I believe everyone is really over thinking this. Yeah they have a BOT program that will be in place. Will it catch everything, probably not. I'm sure it will cut down a decent amount of the BOT population. As for the AFK timer, same thing, and just Ban those accounts who abuse the system like other games. As for the AH thing. I agree with what they are doing. The AH is not the only thing in game for F2P players to do or make gold from. Frankly, they don't ever even need to be a part of it.

The thing about AA I like is doing trade runs to earn gold. That is the fun part. Going into enemy territory with your packs and taking a chance to get them jacked. Or having a huge group of people with you doing a run and having an all out war where factions try to take your stuff. With all there is to do in this game, I honestly cant see a F2P player getting upset over not having access to the DAM AH.

Honestly... you will be a premium user, right? :D

Than don't talk about what you will not experience.
After about 10-15 year mmo experience... yes, F2P players really need AH to make money...

Wix
06-26-2014, 12:19 PM
Yes I will be Premium user. I believe in giving back to the people who work 16 hour days to deliver us our gaming entertainment.
No matter what happens or how they release the game. there will always be people who don't agree with what the company has done with certain components of the game. You can't make everyone happy. There has to be a certain boundary or level of acceptance that we as players need to agree with why things are done the way they are. Unless you have a better solution to provide.

Devin
06-26-2014, 12:20 PM
It's not as much that, as the reason behind it. This will not help having a healthy economy by preventing most bots to sell their items.

Right. If someone make only 1 patron account and dozens of bot account... they just need to trade the gathered items to the patron account... so this system is useless if you want to prevent bots.
They just want your money...

Devin
06-26-2014, 12:23 PM
Yes I will be Premium user. I believe in giving back to the people who work 16 hour days to deliver us are gaming entertainment.

I wanted to be a patron too.
But after I saw this pay to win concept I really don't want to pay.

And if they worked 16 hours a day, we already got play it about 1 year ago, like japanese peoples... they just announced it and for a year they didn't even communicated with the community :D

Deathshades
06-26-2014, 12:31 PM
Alright, can you tell me how locking AH for f2p players will prevent the economy from getting destroyed? Gold-sellers won't be able to afford the item needed to be able to sell on the AH or do you think they will be trying to sell their items on trade chat? (that would be fun).

yes i agree thats why i posted about the AH lock on puting items in for F2p players thats 1 thing i do dislike if you scrolled thou u seen i posted my dilikes to them in this posting earlyer


I hope you are a paid trion worker, and thats why you wrote that... otherwise...

They had 1 and half year for testing, and learning from others experience.
Korean server started open beta 1 and half year ago.
Japan server started open beta 1 year ago.
Russian server started open beta half year ago.

Everyone is sure about they know what are they doing... stop trolling around :D

yes but what you dont understand is that Russia is not working at all it big time broken KR what we getting glad see that but there will be changes do to we dont like same as them and you have understand TRION Worlds is not the 1 that makes the Changes XLGAMES is and they same for rest of the servers RU and KR and EU and NA Trion has wait on them to take away and add and then TRION World has to Translate the text with if you ever did Coding of any kind you know thats not easy at all takes alot time

and no i dont work for them but i understand how the gaming world works and i know what they have do get it done ,that said i still have faith that thing that dont work will be taking care of and fixed by time Launch happens BUT ONLY IF players STOP CRYING AND TELL THEM LIKE NORMAL PLAYERS FOR TESTING

Lanthrudar
06-26-2014, 12:52 PM
then please make it so that people can't end up in jail for 24+ hours

Well if they don't PK, gank traders of the same faction and steal, they wouldn't get huge jail times. There are daily quests to lower your crime/infamy as well. You want to try to be a pirate? Have fun sitting doing nothing for hours on end if you do something silly and get caught before you get high enough to do so.

TheDeadEye
06-26-2014, 12:52 PM
I can say we will not have different labor regen values for offline vs. online status. :)

What happened to this?

I know you pretty much have to accept most of what XLGames gives you, but seriously--you need to fight to keep Patron offline/online values the same. Even if you have to stick it in the Marketplace as an account upgrade or something...

Zevlik
06-26-2014, 12:55 PM
Actually, each server will have a limit on the number of characters allowed to be created on each to prevent excessive queuing.

This is actually a bit concerning. Lets say the server is full and people don't play anymore and I'm playing on this server and my friends would like to join me but they can't because they can't make a character here due to inactive players on the server. Or large guilds that can't have late joining members play on the same server because it's "full".

This just doesn't seem like a good idea to implement unless I'm missing something...

Devin
06-26-2014, 12:56 PM
yes i agree thats why i posted about the AH lock on puting items in for F2p players thats 1 thing i do dislike if you scrolled thou u seen i posted my dilikes to them in this posting earlyer



yes but what you dont understand is that Russia is not working at all it big time broken KR what we getting glad see that but there will be changes do to we dont like same as them and you have understand TRION Worlds is not the 1 that makes the Changes XLGAMES is and they same for rest of the servers RU and KR and EU and NA Trion has wait on them to take away and add and then TRION World has to Translate the text with if you ever did Coding of any kind you know thats not easy at all takes alot time

and no i dont work for them but i understand how the gaming world works and i know what they have do get it done ,that said i still have faith that thing that dont work will be taking care of and fixed by time Launch happens BUT ONLY IF players STOP CRYING AND TELL THEM LIKE NORMAL PLAYERS FOR TESTING

Well... You must be the last unpaid people who have in faith in trion after they can't translate a game less than a year like every company in the world.
They didn't communicate in most of the year in 2013. You can communicate it, if you have trouble and you have a delay, i am sure.

They used alpha test phase for money making... Well I can't recall a company from my memory who used alpha phase like this in the last 15 year... but I am still sure you are understanding the gaming world, and trion have other aims than get all the money they could... i promise I believe everything :D
And of course there isn't any buy to play game which is cheaper than 150 dollar... oh wait, just all of them :D

This concept is against f2p players, and not against the bots. In this case you must be sure there will be many people who don't like it. Open your eyes please and stop thinking with your "I can buy it so don't care about others" way... You will be miss the F2P players when something happens, like the Age of Wushu experienced last year... tenthousands of players left in a single day just because the opening european server was less greedy and they had antibot systems... :D Yeah, anti bot system is the only working solution... and not the restrictions... :D

Legendaryname
06-26-2014, 12:56 PM
• Bonus online Labor Point regeneration (10 per 5 minutes)
• Offline Labor Point regeneration (5 per 5 minutes)

I bolded the "useless part"... I honestly would like to know your reson behind this mechanic.. I cant think of one.. i might not be the smartest person around... but sheesh

Deathshades
06-26-2014, 12:58 PM
This is actually a bit concerning. Lets say the server is full and people don't play anymore and I'm playing on this server and my friends would like to join me but they can't because they can't make a character here due to inactive players on the server. Or large guilds that can't have late joining members play on the same server because it's "full".

This just doesn't seem like a good idea to implement unless I'm missing something...

i see that in this case ya should only get 1 char slot and put other slots in shop most only need 1 char anyways

Devin
06-26-2014, 12:59 PM
• Bonus online Labor Point regeneration (10 per 5 minutes)
• Offline Labor Point regeneration (5 per 5 minutes)

I bolded the "useless part"... I honestly would like to know your reson behind this mechanic.. I cant think of one.. i might not be the smartest person around... but sheesh

The reason behind this is the "buy the patron status, and give me your money" thinking.

Lucifen
06-26-2014, 01:01 PM
First of all - if F2P-Players cant sell on the AH, where should they get the Gold from to buy Patron-status? Sell all the Green/Blue items they farmed in Faction Chat? I hoped Trion wanted the game to be enjoyable for F2P Users - and giving Patrons some Advantages.
If the Restriction is just because of bots/goldspammers etc. then i have a Solution:
Each Patron can take a certain amount of F2P-Characters under their Wing - giving them a small Labor regen and a limited Access to the Auction House.
This way someone who "cant/doesnt want to/ isnt allowed to" pay for the game - but is active and trustable can get a fair Chance to play F2P - but botters/Gold-Sellers wont have a Chance.
If i invite some Friends to the game and i have to post everything for them on the AH/Pay Money for them to try the game out - i think in this case i wouldn´t bother asking anyone if he wants to try the game out..

I bought a Archeum founders pack, i have no Problem to pay for the game, but i want it to be at least possible to play it without paying.

Gladius Rex
06-26-2014, 01:04 PM
I think TRION is approaching this backwards a bit.

LP regen: Here is a thought, you have the LP levels set so that people run out. That is fine, so have an online regen for both Patron and F2P. Patron obviously higher. But if you want to stop the botting, you need to actually increase the amount both gain while offline. Many people in this game are only going to do crafting in crafting guilds. I would think if you wanted to keep your players happy and your game servers stress free, build your system that rewards players for taking a break and going to sleep or God forbid work. Rested XP for level grinding has rarely if ever been an issue and has encouraged people to take breaks or at least switch characters. It works until they are max level, so you have this other system that can actually benefit from the same thing.

Mounts and Botting: Its not rare to see a mount running in circles in alpha. Sadly every mount starts out at stupid level 1, no matter what level you are. A simple fix would be to have mounts start at higher levels as you progress through the game. People may still macro what leveling does need to happen, but at least its not 50 levels of running in circles. If they are macro botting, then they are gaining that LP back slower than if they logged offline (see above recommendation)

Crafting and F2P. This is the biggest problem you are going to have with Patron status. Crafting is not really optional in this game, since that's where the best in slot gear comes from (to my knowledge anyways). So I think that F2P players are going to need LP regen as well to be able to stay competitive and achieve best in slot gear, otherwise you are pay to win which is even worse and against your No Tricks policy.

Lastly, the Auction House issue: Instead of restricting access, just change the AH tax rate. Patrons are taxed 10% (or whatever you find fitting) and then F2P players are taxed 15% at the AH on all sales, so its not that they cant use it, they just don't get the tax break at the AH.

I think TRION sold themselves into a corner a bit with this patron status as part of the 150 dollar investment for alpha and how they cant figure out how to give those paying players their value without screwing up the game balance.

Its a tricky thing to do. if the Gem Store in GW2 taught us anything, its that you cant go wrong selling simple add ons. Bank slots, bag slots, weapon and armor skins. Those don't create pay to win, and are probably some of the top selling items and ArenaNet has made money hand over fist on those types of things.

Im planning on subbing, personally id rather this game just be a sub game to solve this entire issue, but I recognize that players are sold on this F2P model. Its like the local gaming stores, everyone wants a local game store to open, but no one wants to actually buy from it. Theyd rather pirate it online then whine when the local game store closes.

We want AA to succeed, and we want TRION to be able to profit as well and I think most gamers would willingly pay a sub to have a great game than be fooled into a mix sub/ F2P system where neither party will EVER be happy no matter what you do. Either the payers will feel cheated and unsub, or the F2P will be crying that the game is actually P2P or worse, P2Win.

Poppaea
06-26-2014, 01:05 PM
As for the AFK timer, same thing, and just Ban those accounts who abuse the system like other games.

So you suggest they ban ppl who have an idle character in town who only talks in chat every 15 minutes or so? You see that's how I plan to roleplay my tired character. They will sit in town and occasionally sigh and say "I'm so tired. I'm just resting in the shade until I have enough strength to tend to my small garden."

I'll do this 4-6 hours a day, role-playing a fatigued farm worker who drinks booze in town and watches ppl's antics. Occasionally I'll stand up and stretch. Then sit down again to rest up properly.

Is this abuse?