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logan backshot
01-22-2015, 01:41 PM
wandering if a few experts can give some more detailed information on the land expansion.

1. the gazebo farm? (is this like the workers station? you pick up a large farm deed and craft the gazebo? if so how much extra room would you need, as a large is 16x16.) (And why would they do that is it takes more room when most land is filled, it would be very hard to buy your neibors out?)


2. can this update expand the thatched ect. like the pics from the other thread? (almost like a 2 story building with a water wheel ) (or is that an expansion way out still?)


A bit more info that anyone could help with would be greatly appreciated.

Floris
01-22-2015, 01:45 PM
wandering if a few experts can give some more detailed information on the land expansion.

1. the gazebo farm? (is this like the workers station? you pick up a large farm deed and craft the gazebo? if so how much extra room would you need, as a large is 16x16.) (And why would they do that is it takes more room when most land is filled, it would be very hard to buy your neibors out?)


2. can this update expand the thatched ect. like the pics from the other thread? (almost like a 2 story building with a water wheel ) (or is that an expansion way out still?)


A bit more info that anyone could help with would be greatly appreciated.

The thatched with 2 floors is from 1.8 update that was released not long time ago in korea
gazebo farm is 24x24 size

Myssy
01-22-2015, 01:49 PM
the 24x24 farm has the space like 2x 16er farms. So if you have the place for it, it safes you alot of taxes ^^

youtube Jasonwivart
01-22-2015, 01:49 PM
It is a 24x24 farm only so same size as farm house but no house there all the land is for farming. You can put down decor like chests and mailboxes. You need to have a large crow design in your inventory to craft up, so you have to pick up your crow and then craft it, then place it down. Again it is 24x24 in size. Expansion is way out I believe that is 1.8 patch. Meaning about 1 year since we don't even have the full 1.2 patch yet.

More in depth look at gazebo farm and why it is a must have if you are a land baron


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E8kkJSKefM

logan backshot
01-22-2015, 01:50 PM
oh ok thanks. so another quetion than on this is it should have allot more room than a thatched right? a thatched is 24x24 but the house takes allot of room, so if i were to guess it would have about an extra large farm space almost or 3 8x8's of extra room to plant stuff?

logan backshot
01-22-2015, 02:00 PM
last question..... Can you bind to the gazebo farm? for a port?

youtube Jasonwivart
01-22-2015, 02:03 PM
Yes lots of room compared to a thatched, no you cannot bind to it, as it does not have a fireplace

logan backshot
01-22-2015, 02:04 PM
thanks jason

Sucuri
01-22-2015, 02:04 PM
Yes lots of room compared to a thatched, no you cannot bind to it, as it does not have a fireplace

Seems like I can still use my old houses port, even though I put a 16x16 on where it used to be.

youtube Jasonwivart
01-22-2015, 02:25 PM
Seems like I can still use my old houses port, even though I put a 16x16 on where it used to be.

Yes, this was suppose to be patched but most can still port there even when house is demoed. NOT ALL but most can

Sucuri
01-22-2015, 02:28 PM
Yes, this was suppose to be patched but most can still port there even when house is demoed. NOT ALL but most can

A bug in the system, trion will get right on it! :D

Porks
01-22-2015, 02:46 PM
Lets say our version of AA will last as long as the korean one, why not just save up for the 2 lvl gazebo and wait?

valdamus
01-22-2015, 03:05 PM
Trion has a way to make you spend more of what you want to save of in order to create something. Want an 80 slot chest? use two 50 slot chests. Wanna save taxes by bigger farms?? spend THREEHUNDRED bound taxes PER design AND 1kish gold to get one?? The mats + money = result curve is all messed up.

eastburn
01-22-2015, 03:32 PM
More in depth look at gazebo farm and why it is a must have if you are a land baron

Hey Jason,

just a short notice on the Tax-Math in your video (you might want to annotate it maybe): The Tax Increase after each property counts for each scarecrow.
Meaning:
2 Scarecrows, 10 each, total tax 20
3 Scarecrows, 15 each, total tax 45
4 Scarecrows, 20 each, total tax 80
5 Scarecrows, 25 each, total tax 125
6 Scarecrows, 30 each, total tax 180
etc.

For your example replacing the 5 Scarecrows with 2 Gazebos would mean switching from 125 Tax (not 80) down to 30. (Assuming these are the only buildings on the account).

Reasoning of course still stays the same as you noted. ;)

youtube Jasonwivart
01-22-2015, 04:37 PM
Hey Jason,

just a short notice on the Tax-Math in your video (you might want to annotate it maybe): The Tax Increase after each property counts for each scarecrow.
Meaning:
2 Scarecrows, 10 each, total tax 20
3 Scarecrows, 15 each, total tax 45
4 Scarecrows, 20 each, total tax 80
5 Scarecrows, 25 each, total tax 125
6 Scarecrows, 30 each, total tax 180
etc.

For your example replacing the 5 Scarecrows with 2 Gazebos would mean switching from 125 Tax (not 80) down to 30. (Assuming these are the only buildings on the account).

Reasoning of course still stays the same as you noted. ;)

I was wrong. He was right, making gazebos even better than I posted in my videos saving nearly 100 tax certs a week with this scenario

Traciatim
01-22-2015, 04:48 PM
That's incorrect. Taxes only rise on the on the properties 3+ the 1st 2 you placed are not effected at all. I will go and double check this but it has been like that since the game started. My taxes are all up to date as well so I cannot check this right this second but 99% positive this is how it works

That's incorrect. The moment you place your third property all of your properties are subject to 50% extra tax. If you have a thatched and a farm you will be paying 10 + 15 for 25... if you add a second farm you will be paying 23 + 15 + 15 for a total weekly of 53.

unnamed
01-22-2015, 04:49 PM
my expert advice, since you dont have the labor for the farms, unless you are doing pines, this is entirely unfeasible as a farming utility, and even if you are people have huge illegal farms that will simply devalue your pines.

it would take over 1.2 years for an average farmer to even break even on this.

Mudbone827
01-22-2015, 05:23 PM
The way I see it, only the LAND BARONS will benefit from this and in more ways than the one eluded to in the video.

Arkaleus
01-22-2015, 05:30 PM
That's incorrect. Taxes only rise on the on the properties 3+ the 1st 2 you placed are not effected at all. I will go and double check this but it has been like that since the game started. My taxes are all up to date as well so I cannot check this right this second but 99% positive this is how it works

That is incorrect. As soon as you go to 3 properties, and then every 3 thereafter, all of the properties get the tax increase. When I had 2 16x16's I was paying 10 certs each per week. As soon as I put a 3rd one down, all 3 went to 15 certs a week.

Siobhan
01-22-2015, 05:33 PM
Here's the thing....

Finding a 24x24 spot to put your shiny new gazebo is going to be difficult pretty much anywhere except the so-called "dead" servers. So either be prepared to see 24x24 plots go for 3-4K per or be prepared to demo your 24x24 house/thatched. To me, it's simply not worth it to spend all that gold and labor on something I may or may not be able to actually use for some time to come.

I'll stick with what I got, thank you.

Athalahelm
01-22-2015, 06:56 PM
tons of Gazebo farms would make it easier to traverse housing areas with a vehicle... two cents

Wolfguarde
01-22-2015, 07:22 PM
That's incorrect. Taxes only rise on the on the properties 3+ the 1st 2 you placed are not effected at all. I will go and double check this but it has been like that since the game started. My taxes are all up to date as well so I cannot check this right this second but 99% positive this is how it works

As someone who has recently slimmed down from 6 properties to 4, I have to say you're wrong here. I've been paying 30 certs for each of my 16x16s and 18 for each of my 8x8s.


tons of Gazebo farms would make it easier to traverse housing areas with a vehicle... two cents

Until the owners start planting trees >.>

Traciatim
01-22-2015, 07:59 PM
Until the owners start planting trees >.>

Someone needs to make a huge area of gazebos and make a wagon/hauler tree maze.

youtube Jasonwivart
01-22-2015, 10:40 PM
As someone who has recently slimmed down from 6 properties to 4, I have to say you're wrong here. I've been paying 30 certs for each of my 16x16s and 18 for each of my 8x8s.



Until the owners start planting trees >.>

Okay it appears I may be wrong on this... I will indeed have to check but since 3 people have said I am wrong I guess I am. Meaning having gazebo verse 5 farms is even more beneficial than I stated in my video.

youtube Jasonwivart
01-22-2015, 10:42 PM
Hey Jason,

just a short notice on the Tax-Math in your video (you might want to annotate it maybe): The Tax Increase after each property counts for each scarecrow.
Meaning:
2 Scarecrows, 10 each, total tax 20
3 Scarecrows, 15 each, total tax 45
4 Scarecrows, 20 each, total tax 80
5 Scarecrows, 25 each, total tax 125
6 Scarecrows, 30 each, total tax 180
etc.

For your example replacing the 5 Scarecrows with 2 Gazebos would mean switching from 125 Tax (not 80) down to 30. (Assuming these are the only buildings on the account).

Reasoning of course still stays the same as you noted. ;)

Okay it appears I may be wrong on this... I will indeed have to check but since 3 people have said I am wrong I guess I am. Meaning having gazebo verse 5 farms is even more beneficial than I stated in my video.

Thanks for your help, all of you who showed me I was wrong. Damn you save so much MORE in taxes verse having multiple farms it is even better to own gazebos now.

youtube Jasonwivart
01-22-2015, 10:43 PM
That is incorrect. As soon as you go to 3 properties, and then every 3 thereafter, all of the properties get the tax increase. When I had 2 16x16's I was paying 10 certs each per week. As soon as I put a 3rd one down, all 3 went to 15 certs a week.

Thanks for correcting me!

Wolfguarde
01-22-2015, 11:05 PM
I'll add for data purposes (in case it affects anything) that four of my properties (all 16x16s and 1 8x8) are in one zone.

Darkmask
01-23-2015, 02:04 AM
Can someone tell me how many Cedars or pines can plant in the Gazebo farm?

Aerok
01-23-2015, 02:47 AM
That is incorrect. As soon as you go to 3 properties, and then every 3 thereafter, all of the properties get the tax increase. When I had 2 16x16's I was paying 10 certs each per week. As soon as I put a 3rd one down, all 3 went to 15 certs a week.

you are also incorrect (the bolded part at least). This guys was right:

2 Scarecrows, 10 each, total tax 20
3 Scarecrows, 15 each, total tax 45
4 Scarecrows, 20 each, total tax 80
5 Scarecrows, 25 each, total tax 125
6 Scarecrows, 30 each, total tax 180
etc.

So starting from your 3rd property you get an additional 50% of the base tax per additional property. I alwas wondered if this is intended as the tooltip ingame clearly states that you only pay additional tax when you have >3 properties. Or have I been reading it wrong?

eastburn
01-23-2015, 07:22 AM
Can someone tell me how many Cedars or pines can plant in the Gazebo farm?
I am not sure about the perfect layout yet. I saw one posted where 42 Aspen (so would be same amount of Cedars) were fitted onto a Gazebo.

In a scenario where you replace 9 16x16 (44x44) with 4 Gazebos this would actually mean you loose space (180 Trees, against 168), i would guess because the 8x8 in the middle takes more space than the Crow. Not sure about the Layout for Pines yet, but my guess is that in the above scenario the end result would be the same.

So in the Large Scale it seems you actually loose farm area if you use the Gazebos.

Ninjaedit: Props for Jason for admitting error on the internet ;)

Traciatim
01-23-2015, 07:49 AM
I am not sure about the perfect layout yet. I saw one posted where 42 Aspen (so would be same amount of Cedars) were fitted onto a Gazebo.

In a scenario where you replace 9 16x16 (44x44) with 4 Gazebos this would actually mean you loose space (180 Trees, against 168), i would guess because the 8x8 in the middle takes more space than the Crow. Not sure about the Layout for Pines yet, but my guess is that in the above scenario the end result would be the same.

So in the Large Scale it seems you actually loose farm area if you use the Gazebos.

Ninjaedit: Props for Jason for admitting error on the internet ;)

You are comparing 9 farms with 4 gazebo's why? 1 Gazebo essentially = 2 farms, so the comparison should be 8 farms vs 4 gazebos.

Also keep in mind that if you had 9 crow farms you'd be paying 405 tax certs a week, 8 is 320. 4 gazebos though is 120... so a savings of 200 - 285 a week... which is 500 - 712.50 gold a week @ 2.5g per cert.

eastburn
01-23-2015, 08:35 AM
You are comparing 9 farms with 4 gazebo's why? 1 Gazebo essentially = 2 farms, so the comparison should be 8 farms vs 4 gazebos.

Also keep in mind that if you had 9 crow farms you'd be paying 405 tax certs a week, 8 is 320. 4 gazebos though is 120... so a savings of 200 - 285 a week... which is 500 - 712.50 gold a week @ 2.5g per cert.
Well, two reasons for the comparision:
1. the 9 Crow vs. 4 Gazebo is the only scenario were I replace the same amount of actual space. You can not place 4 Gazebos on a plot where you have 8 Scarecrows and no wiggle room to your neighbours. I had a typo in there though, since of course the actual space is 48x48, not 44x44.
There are not a lot of scenario where you can replace two joined 16x16 with a gazebo, except you were lucky enough to place them in a way that there is free unused land around them. (which rarely is the case)
2. I am one of these aforementioned landbarons and have access to such a layout, were I could possibly switch to 4 Gazebos. So I was interested what it would mean in farmland.

I agree on the taxes of course. In my scenario these are spread around more than one account, so I currently "only" pay 270 Taxes, which would get down to 120 (or fewer, if i keep the spread) none the less.

Pwnocchio
01-23-2015, 09:01 AM
it would take over 1.2 years for an average farmer to even break even on this.

My quick crunching indicated that I'd pay for the merging of my two 16x16's into one gazebo in ~34 weeks if I only account for the tax certificate savings.

Data:
I'd be moving from 4 properties to 3.
Presumed value of tax cert is static @ 2.5g / each
I'd be saving 64g / week in tax certs

I offset that against the current value of 17,000 labor and the input costs in materials.

I ignored the fact that because I'm in Auroria my tax certs savings would actually be much larger than this.

Wafalls
01-23-2015, 09:10 AM
Or people could just skip the math, replace their 10 farms with 1 gazebo and save a gazillion gold and on the plus side also relax while playing, go fishing with guildies, do some PvP or mob hunting, instead of making paying taxes and constantly optimising farm profits their 24/7 job.

Zimira
01-23-2015, 09:21 AM
Ok going from 4 16x16 to 2 gazebos saves you 50 tax per week. Crafting 2 gazebos takes 600 tax certs. So 600/50 = 12 weeks or 3 months before you see any tax benefits. Then you have to earn back the 1800g you also cashed out, take a cert at 2,5g then it is comparable to 1800/2,5 = 720 tax certs. That is another 3,5 months before you start to see profits from it. Even with tax certs at 5g it would be close to 2 months.

So going from 4 farms to 2 gazebos, you look at roughly 5-6 months before you see any financial benefits. That is really thinking long term before you see benefits.


Can't see how Jason ends up with 3 weeks to gain it back. First comparing 5 16x16 with 2 gazebos is plain wrong since you pretty much loose 1 farms worth of space. But accepting that error he earns 95 tax certs per week by swapping, then it seem he compares that to building 1 gazebo instead of 2. In his case it would take 6 weeks not 3 to earn it in taxes, but ofc that is also still loosing 1 16x16 worth of farm space.

I am not even sure converting 10 16x16 across 3 accounts to 5 gazebos on 2 accounts will be worth it in less then 5 months.

mendan
01-24-2015, 01:23 AM
Don't forget that you are gaining that 1 (meter?) row of space that would be in between the 4 -16x16s. That would make up for a little of what you lose from the gazebo.

Darkmask
01-24-2015, 01:51 AM
depend what scenario situation. If you have 4 (16*16) you are paying 80Tax per week, But if you have 2 (16*16) + 1 Gazebo you only pay 53Tax. So in this scenario you save 27 Tax per week.

http://archeagefurniture.com/archeage-tax-calculator/

Rhiaden
01-24-2015, 02:07 AM
Ok going from 4 16x16 to 2 gazebos saves you 50 tax per week. Crafting 2 gazebos takes 600 tax certs. So 600/50 = 12 weeks or 3 months before you see any tax benefits. Then you have to earn back the 1800g you also cashed out, take a cert at 2,5g then it is comparable to 1800/2,5 = 720 tax certs. That is another 3,5 months before you start to see profits from it. Even with tax certs at 5g it would be close to 2 months.

So going from 4 farms to 2 gazebos, you look at roughly 5-6 months before you see any financial benefits. That is really thinking long term before you see benefits.


Can't see how Jason ends up with 3 weeks to gain it back. First comparing 5 16x16 with 2 gazebos is plain wrong since you pretty much loose 1 farms worth of space. But accepting that error he earns 95 tax certs per week by swapping, then it seem he compares that to building 1 gazebo instead of 2. In his case it would take 6 weeks not 3 to earn it in taxes, but ofc that is also still loosing 1 16x16 worth of farm space.

I am not even sure converting 10 16x16 across 3 accounts to 5 gazebos on 2 accounts will be worth it in less then 5 months.

Or, buy the certificates for, on my server, 315g each, so 1800g total.

Zimira
01-24-2015, 01:52 PM
Or, buy the certificates for, on my server, 315g each, so 1800g total.

True those calculation was made before Trion dropped the certs on CS for 650 credits each.
The 1800g still takes same amount of time to get back, so 3 months at 3g per cert and 2 months at 5g per cert. To me this is a lot more reasonable time frame.

You should note though that this calculation didn't include a cost for the 10k labour needed for the construction bundles to make 2 gazebos. At worst (if you have to spend the labour yourself) it adds 5 weeks before profit, but if you can get someone to make them to make them for 1-2s per labour it only adds a week.