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View Full Version : Auction house prices crash, Is someone duping items or what is the reason for this crash?



Kiamori
02-15-2015, 11:52 AM
Prices are about 1/3 of what they were last week, just wondering how prices crashed so far this week? is some group duping items or what is causing this?

ironicsilence
02-15-2015, 11:53 AM
Trion is suppose to be "more aggressive" in removing bad gold from the game so perhaps people just have less gold to spend

Quinsam
02-15-2015, 11:55 AM
Bot Bans
Regrades sucking billions out of economy daily
People not paying crazy prices for basic materials

Many will QQ, I will not, learn to make gold and you will be fine, Lowered apex prices and now we can afford to Apex accounts again, its a win win

mysticwolf
02-15-2015, 12:06 PM
Trion is suppose to be "more aggressive" in removing bad gold from the game so perhaps people just have less gold to spend

This is exactly why. Gold has more value than it did previously when you could buy 1k for $10.

So the economy is basically deflating back to where it should have been.

Kiamori
02-15-2015, 12:13 PM
cept the bots are still spamming to sell at the same ratio, so I dont think its that they removed bad gold since the bots still have their gold. Bots also still control the Auction house, spell books is a great example.

Goethe
02-15-2015, 12:20 PM
cept the bots are still spamming to sell at the same ratio, so I dont think its that they removed bad gold since the bots still have their gold. Bots also still control the Auction house, spell books is a great example.

Not really, if you check AA Gold selling sites, you will see price for gold had increased, probally because more and more bots are being banned and bot fueled gold being removed from the game, not to mention there is less and less people playing, I see my farming goods sometime stay for a long time in AH to be sold while still being the cheaper ones.

Also, like people said, a ton of gold leaving the game due to regrading scrolls being cheaper.

Weelah
02-15-2015, 12:23 PM
Its called ECONOMY

Reason 1 : Fluctuation
It occurs all the time prices rise and drop in accordance to the supply and demand because of competition
Example:In the Action House theres a lumber pack worth 100 gold and I want to put mine so I will put it for 90 gold so that people will buy mine instead if the other but then comes a 3rd seller and he gives it even cheaper etc. and after a while less people put lumber on the AH because its "not worth it" so the Supply part falls behind the Demand then the sellers realize that they are the only suppliers of lumber and rise the prices again.

Reason 2 : Inflation of currency
When money is worth more than before because Gold became harder to obtain or Supply and Demand balance has been disrupted
Example : For 100 g you could buy 1 thunderstruck log now you can buy 2 thunderstruck logs

Reason 3 : Deflation of goods
When Supply exeeds the demand prices drop
Example : Now everyone can get a Moonpoint because of the Divine Gift so everyone puts it on the AH each cheaper than the one before thus there is too much Supply and not enough demand

Reason 4 : Market stablizing
When Sellers finily realize how much is the customer willing to pay for goods
Example : Archeum Essence was worth 200 g but only 10 people bought one the seller drop the price to 180 g now 20 people bought one ,the seller droped the prices to 150 g now 50 people bought one .As you can see as the prices drop the more people want to buy the stuff .
Make you pick....

maiyah
02-15-2015, 12:29 PM
Another thought is that perhaps the building boom of early game is ended. The need for stone and lumber have decreased. People have their carts/haulers already, or they've already obtained their merchant ship and their 24x24 farm. Many folks have townhomes or thatcheds, on my server the really huge homes (500 to 1000 gilda range) aren't really common and most seem decorated in a more tavern or guild house way. I'm not really seeing many folks wanting massive homes (perhaps they feel 50+ stone packs for a home is too much work? Idk.)

But that leaves us with most folks either having their big ticket items, or perhaps people are focusing on getting archemaster and aren't buying tons of things right now.

Tang
02-15-2015, 12:31 PM
Main reason is cheap points so everyone regrades + many players have stopped doing traderuns in favor of crafting. Just look at all the "tradepax not worth it" threads of the last weeks.
Result: large supply of crafted goods, less gold entering the economy.

Kiamori
02-15-2015, 01:39 PM
in 3 days prices on everything are down 60%, you cannot craft items for as cheap as the auction bots are selling them on the AH. again I point you at spell books. Cost is 2g 60s to make and they are being sold for 2g 20s

Timmeh
02-15-2015, 02:04 PM
Divine Deflation Boxes.

Regrade scrolls are cheap. The gold sink portion of regrading has not changed.

maiyah
02-15-2015, 02:06 PM
in 3 days prices on everything are down 60%, you cannot craft items for as cheap as the auction bots are selling them on the AH. again I point you at spell books. Cost is 2g 60s to make and they are being sold for 2g 20s

buy low, then?

knightblaster
02-15-2015, 02:21 PM
Bot Bans
Regrades sucking billions out of economy daily
People not paying crazy prices for basic materials

Many will QQ, I will not, learn to make gold and you will be fine, Lowered apex prices and now we can afford to Apex accounts again, its a win win

I expect that if APEX stays as low as it is, that market is going to dry up. Why would anyone spend $10 to get ~500 gold?

Porks
02-15-2015, 02:50 PM
i wouldnt call it crashing. its ppl doing something right.

Traciatim
02-15-2015, 02:50 PM
Divine Deflation Boxes.

Regrade scrolls are cheap. The gold sink portion of regrading has not changed.

This has a huge amount to do with it. More people regrading gear means less to spend on other things and less gold floating around. Add to that the removed cheater gold and the bot bans and then you have a pretty good explanation.

vajtswv
02-15-2015, 03:22 PM
well if prices are deflating , and they certainly are, why is doing trade packs for gold so bad

if things are not selling anymore , then why not everyone go back to fishing incontinent gold runs??

right everyone is holding onto their gold and see what diamond shores will offer, or still basing value of gold to labor pots

meh i don't even log in everyday anymore just for loyalty, labor reaching max and just don't have a reason to play anymore if its just to log in and make gold, guess that's how most players are

Delarme
02-15-2015, 03:25 PM
Simply because other forms of converting labor+time to gold are better than trade runs.

Erlindur
02-15-2015, 04:05 PM
Simply because other forms of converting labor+time to gold are better than trade runs.

lol

Yes, and since most remaining players firmly believe that and most gold sellers are gone, no one is doing trade runs, fishing or even bother with coin purses. No new gold in the system. Theorize on that, AA economists.

Wockysan
02-15-2015, 04:32 PM
labor = gold
labor = repeated low value

Labor declines in value when it is undersold. When one undersells a listing on the AH, they undersell labor long term effecting their own returns.
Declining values in labor require *more* labor toward gains. So, you spend more (workers) to create more items only to gain lesser still.
It continues this way until players snap out of it or, the game becomes cash shop pvp driven entirely. When labor holds little value, it isn't the AH that takes a kidney punch alone, but many other aspects of the game. But let's stay on topic and avoid that bright future.

Credit to gold fluctuates but maintains a solid course. Real cash is hard to budge.
Labor to gold, however, is weak due to the naive underselling. In short, consumers are selling product the way only a consumer would.
Labor would hold a high value at a constant if that weren't the case.^

Overall, the result of a toxic AH is you're own fault. You know damn well that you all undersell each other. You botch your own returns time and time again.
Your only competitor is cash. Cash is king. Corn not so much. List labor high and keep it there.

Yetskii
02-15-2015, 04:45 PM
labor = gold
labor = repeated low value

Labor declines in value when it is undersold. When one undersells a listing on the AH, they undersell labor long term effecting their own returns.
Declining values in labor require *more* labor toward gains. So, you spend more (workers) to create more items only to gain lesser still.
It continues this way until players snap out of it or, the game becomes cash shop pvp driven entirely. When labor holds little value, it isn't the AH that takes a kidney punch alone, but many other aspects of the game. But let's stay on topic and avoid that bright future.

Credit to gold fluctuates but maintains a solid course. Real cash is hard to budge.
Labor to gold, however, is weak due to the naive underselling. In short, consumers are selling product the way only a consumer would.
Labor would hold a high value at a constant if that weren't the case.^

Overall, the result of a toxic AH is you're own fault. You know damn well that you all undersell each other. You botch your own returns time and time again.
Your only competitor is cash. Cash is king. Corn not so much. List labor high and keep it there.

Yeah but people have been basing labor = gold based on apex prices, which is rather stupid, because we all know it has been massively overpriced...

In conclusion, your labor is not worth what you think it is

VVolfgang
02-15-2015, 05:01 PM
No more Gold dude, Trion cut the sack on the gold sellers so now people have to work for the gold. Therefore it takes longer to build up. Which leaves less gold.

vajtswv
02-15-2015, 05:24 PM
No more Gold dude, Trion cut the sack on the gold sellers so now people have to work for the gold. Therefore it takes longer to build up. Which leaves less gold.

exactly , if everyone keeps saying this, why not go back to fishing and gold trade packs again

if the gold sellers and botters are gone, doubt that to be true until the game is on its last leg which is a few years from now, how will the players get more gold if they don't do activities to intoduce gold again

sure some players might be sitting on millons of gold, but crafting regrading, resources trade runs, farming gathering doesn't introduce new gold

so again why would fishing and gold trade runs be bad, yes it's slower, but once everyone runs out then what, can't rely only on botters and gold sellers/buyers to provide the gold

labor is free and always regenerating , if you don't have patron status i don't know why you are still playing this game, so using it to generate gold via fishing and gold trade runs not so bad

but hey i don't mind AH keep deflating and everything drops in values again, just means gold equals more values and you'll just have to work twice as harder now, let's hope it's true


one more thing, if the population is declining , why are we seeing more items showing up in AH, right cause less buyers lead to lower prices, which leads to fishing amd gold trade runs to be able to buy all those items showing up in AH now...

Siobhan
02-15-2015, 05:25 PM
Since the beginning of APEx, when there was a dupe exploit/hack.whatever, there has been way too much gold in the system. Because there was so much gold, the prices ran rampant on pretty much anything. Now that regrades have taken some (not enough) gold out of the system, and RMT gold has been and is continuing to be removed, the system is reverting somewhat to where prices should be.

Note to AH flippers and crafters:
I'm sorry that you can't get what you used to for your products, but I am sure you'll find something else to fleece the populace with soon.

Wolfguarde
02-15-2015, 09:09 PM
People not paying crazy prices for basic materials


Problem with this logic being that basic materials never inflated to start with. They plateud long before rampant inflation started, and haven't really shifted on the market with deflation either, At least in AH1. Basic materials never really went up to 'crazy prices'.

Morrigan
02-15-2015, 09:24 PM
Problem with this logic being that basic materials never inflated to start with. They plateud long before rampant inflation started, and haven't really shifted on the market with deflation either, At least in AH1. Basic materials never really went up to 'crazy prices'.

this- I have pretty much minded my own business selling stuff I produce on my farm and prices have been stable since just after lauch- with minor fluctuations over a weekend.
Just in the last couple of days the prices have dropped quite alarmingly
And don't give me "dirty gold "nonsense, I don't believe for one second that goldsellers deal in the stuff I deal in

Stochastic
02-15-2015, 09:46 PM
And don't give me "dirty gold "nonsense, I don't believe for one second that goldsellers deal in the stuff I deal in

it is the gold buyers who were dealing in your stuff, they gold buyers are broke, cant afford as much stuff so prices go down.

Treeon
02-15-2015, 10:15 PM
Note to AH flippers and crafters:
I'm sorry that you can't get what you used to for your products, but I am sure you'll find something else to fleece the populace with soon.

The stuff I flip I will continue to flip even at reduced prices. All it means is gold is less valuable, but I will still be getting that same slice of the pie when I flip as when prices were high. That 100g that I used to flip for 500g will now appear at 50g and I'll flip at 250g.

Arialun
02-15-2015, 10:24 PM
More and more bots are doing stealth run with pack nonstop now. They're broke and need to accumulate their gold back.

Saber
02-15-2015, 11:42 PM
Theres another reason for the collaps aswell , First the big hit to Chinese farmers at the 8 hour downtime, removing huge amount of gold from the game. 2ndly people are waiting for Obsidion weapons, that they think are going to be sooo cheap to make.

Aeducan76
02-15-2015, 11:53 PM
labor is free and always regenerating

It is always regenerating - but it is not free. Labor has a value, learn to pay extra for it.


Theres another reason for the collaps aswell , First the big hit to Chinese farmers at the 8 hour downtime, removing huge amount of gold from the game. 2ndly people are waiting for Obsidion weapons, that they think are going to be sooo cheap to make.

I am looking forward to it as well, never gonna pay 35-60k for a delph weapon, even when they are not on par - id rather level crafting myself.

Morpayne
02-16-2015, 12:04 AM
Many will say its because apex is creeping downward or because bots are getting dealt with ( lol ) or some overly complicated comparison to the real worlds economy, but its not.

Its because of the population drop. Even the RMT companies are having to slash prices on AH goods to get anything at all sold or it all gets mailed back.

To any nay sayers, just remember that most people understand and agree with me, not you. The games massive bled player numbers and overall reputation online allow me to say that.

Stochastic
02-16-2015, 12:17 AM
Its because of the population drop. Even the RMT companies are having to slash prices on AH goods to get anything at all sold or it all gets mailed back.



RMT companies would need to slash prices because of the extra risk involved. you need to realize that a population drop takes buyers AND sellers out of the market, it would not change many prices.


or some overly complicated comparison to the real worlds economy

The quantity theory of money is not complicated at all, and even less so without a financial sector. All it says it says is the amount of money overall determines the overall price level of things. A 30% decrease in the money supply would cause a 30% decrease in the overall price level (if there are no banks).

MortucusInvictus
02-16-2015, 12:45 AM
well there is a few reason's
first is the event and the regrades this has riped 100s of millions if not 10s of billions worth of gold out of the game{ smart move trion}

then there is the mass banning of all the gold sellers the alts their mules and their main holding accounts

then there is the banning of the same people above and their auction house snipers u see for them to sell their gold well they must devalue the golds vales to make u want to buy their ♥♥♥♥ so buy buying all the ah ♥♥♥♥ and setting price's at their rate the end result was an over enflayted econ

prices will raise agin over time but some things will drop even more once 1.7 hits

Aeducan76
02-16-2015, 12:54 AM
well there is a few reason's
first is the event and the regrades this has riped 100s of millions if not 10s of billions worth of gold out of the game{ smart move trion}

then there is the mass banning of all the gold sellers the alts their mules and their main holding accounts

then there is the banning of the same people above and their auction house snipers u see for them to sell their gold well they must devalue the golds vales to make u want to buy their ♥♥♥♥ so buy buying all the ah ♥♥♥♥ and setting price's at their rate the end result was an over enflayted econ

prices will raise agin over time but some things will drop even more once 1.7 hits

And whys that reducing apex price? Since most ppl make 500g a day or multiple K a week (at least they claim) there is no reason for Apex to drop.
Of course if they are not bought at the previous insane prices ppl will offer them a bit lower.

It feels like Trion is pushing lower prices Apex into the AH groups themselves - which is a good thing for ppl who actually use apex and also for Trion because the buyers have to spent more €/$ for a quick in-game gold infuse. About 770 € for a decent weapon, double that for delph ;)

MortucusInvictus
02-16-2015, 01:05 AM
And whys that reducing apex price? Since most ppl make 500g a day or multiple K a week (at least they claim) there is no reason for Apex to drop.
Of course if they are not bought at the previous insane prices ppl will offer them a bit lower.

It feels like Trion is pushing lower prices Apex into the AH groups themselves - which is a good thing for ppl who actually use apex and also for Trion because the buyers have to spent more €/$ for a quick in-game gold infuse. About 770 € for a decent weapon, double that for delph ;)

because of the ah bot snipers thats why apex was so hi
your not getting how the gold seller affect econ also the event my gm had 100k gold
he now has no gold u do the math use your head mate people went to rng casino and blew the lot and there is no money left to spend u cant craft weapons if u cant sell them it was possible to make 20 30k a week crafting top tire weapons WHEN u could sell them

simple answer THERE IS NO GOLD TO SPEND WERE ALL BROKE

Aeducan76
02-16-2015, 01:10 AM
simple answer THERE IS NO GOLD TO SPEND WERE ALL BROKE

Speak for yourself ;)

But then again its good if thats true.

Zenhii
02-16-2015, 01:25 AM
I agree with previous posters about free points and bot banning taking a lot of money out of the economy, but I also think it's a psycholigical thing. People are not blind, they see that prices are dropping across the board.
What is the logical thing to do when prices are dropping and gold value is increasing? Liquidate all your gods while they still hold value, then hoard your gold until the deflation peaks (then invest it all in materials). What is the consequence of people doing this? Massively increased deflation, as. No gold is being spent and the ah is being flooded with materials.

Orio
02-16-2015, 01:36 AM
a) Divine boxes of deflation
I spent thousands on regrades and now I have Magnificent heroic set... Just need to use up all the lunagems. I guess many people did so, as you can see people running around in celestial sets...

b) People knew that some price bubble is gonna pop
Prices cannot increase indefinitely. 1000 for an Apex was never real, simply because you need 2 of them to have 30 day of patron.

A lot of gold was removed from the players. The prices have to follow.

Aeducan76
02-16-2015, 01:45 AM
Prices cannot increase indefinitely. 1000 for an Apex was never real, simply because you need 2 of them to have 30 day of patron.

A lot of gold was removed from the players. The prices have to follow.

Agreed, even if more popular types like that Vivart thingy guy would tell you otherwise.

Alara
02-16-2015, 02:49 AM
I like that goldsellers are apparently in trouble. I wish much more trouble upon them.

AA has an economy that reacts promptly on certain key items and their availability. Remember the TS effect when they introduced rumbling archeum trees?

This time it is, as posters before me have correctly noted, the divine chests. Moonpoints and sunpoints are flooding the market. And they are being bought! I have sold every sunpoint, starpoint and moonpoint I've obtained. And they are not being potted up for later. They are being used.

Basically the divine gifts have one of AA's main goldsinks now working as it should. Which is why we see this effect on the market.

It's cool. I like cheaper APEX. And I'm still selling what I make at okay prices. I keep tabs on my markets.

nPole
02-16-2015, 02:51 AM
Prices cannot increase indefinitely. 1000 for an Apex was never real, simply because you need 2 of them to have 30 day of patron.

With some calculation, you will see that an APEX still convenient (sustainable) until around 1200g each, simply because you can "generate" around 2400g for only being a patron (because of the offline LP regen), the land owning is an added benefit. So people will continue to buy them, even if they reaches those prices, because (it's simple to understand): having 1000 for free is great, but having 10 is better than having ZERO. :)

The sad reality is another: the game is dying (uh! what news...) ... there's none interested to buy like before, it's hard to sell almost everything that could be crafted, i have so many top tier potions in my inventory to sell that i started to give em out at loss... and neither they could be sold.
It's not because people haven't gold to spend, but because there's no reason to spend them (pvp is at minimum, people have built everything... and so on).

aonbyte
02-16-2015, 02:55 AM
Increase in regrade supplies such as moonpoint, sunpoint, and starpoint makes regrading more coming. Regrading is a huge gold sink and when more people are doing it, more gold gets removed from the game. In addition, labor is more prevalent now that the AFK timer is gone. A few hundred labor a day on all characters can make a huge difference to the economy.

Tasear
02-16-2015, 02:59 AM
One word. Deflation.

Aeducan76
02-16-2015, 03:37 AM
Bottom line is - enjoy the low prices, especially with apex - as long as they stay that way.

Orio
02-16-2015, 04:24 AM
Interesting is that I am able to craft and sell 1-2 items every day...

I will keep my interest for APEX when:

a) People will be buying my crafted products.
b) The APEX price will not be too high.

What I havent done is that I havent increased price of my goods as everybody else was doing. The price of Charcoal Stabilizer was still same, while APEX was getting more and more expensive. When it was 800 there were people predicting it will surely hit 1000.

When I purchased my last apex, it costed me 430 gold and I mentioned multiple times that I will NOT purchase if it will be too expensive and I would rather pay real money to Trion than support greed of wallet warriors.

nPole, the sad reality isnt that game is dying. Just greedy people were slapped back by economy. We WONT buy that expensive. Thats all.

When price of anything goes too high, there is still chance that somebody will try to sell with lower price, simply because he need gold much faster than in three weeks of attempting to sell a divine delphinad staff for 25k.


Beyond the AH price bubble was trade in chat. Especially APEXes were sold at much more decent prices this way. Yesterday was the first time I told to a player that he cannot sold Apex for 650g when there is one on AH for 610g. I also use the opposite argument when somebody start to cry at prices of AH Apexes - usually there are people who are selling for more decent price in chat.

knightblaster
02-16-2015, 05:15 AM
What I havent done is that I havent increased price of my goods as everybody else was doing. The price of Charcoal Stabilizer was still same, while APEX was getting more and more expensive. When it was 800 there were people predicting it will surely hit 1000.

When I purchased my last apex, it costed me 430 gold and I mentioned multiple times that I will NOT purchase if it will be too expensive and I would rather pay real money to Trion than support greed of wallet warriors.


What I don't get is why the wallet warriors would even bother to buy APEX from Trion if they can only get 400g for it. $10 for 400g doesn't seem cost justified from that perspective, really.

Orio
02-16-2015, 05:24 AM
Yet you still miss the point that price of the gold is variable too :)

I guess, that I would pay 1000 gold for an apex, if my goods will cost 2x gold more as now. And all other goods which are usually purchased from "sold" apexes.

Any expectations in a manner "I want XY gold for an APEX" are foolish. I know how much time it consumes to make the gold, or an item. I wonder why people are not willing to trade Delphinad Weapons for single APEX. I guess that people who sell them would be pleased, but that will be exactly the time when the game will become pay to win.

The only stable currency is time and labor.

If somebody is offering an APEX I have to be sure that the trade will help us both equally. If somebody calculates that he will earn as much as possible, then he is not playing a game, but has a serious problem.

knightblaster
02-16-2015, 05:42 AM
I agree in the sense that people are generally greedy. I don't get people who buy currency, really -- it kind of kills playing the game when you do it that way, so it has no attraction for me, personally. But I would think that given how relatively easy it is ti get 400g in the game, I can't imagine *that* many people thinking that it's worth $10 to buy 400g. Maybe that's just because I don't value buying currency like that to begin with, but 400g seems too easy to get even for someone who likes taking short cuts with his wallet.

Siobhan
02-16-2015, 05:46 AM
The stuff I flip I will continue to flip even at reduced prices. All it means is gold is less valuable, but I will still be getting that same slice of the pie when I flip as when prices were high. That 100g that I used to flip for 500g will now appear at 50g and I'll flip at 250g.

As I said, you'll find something else...

BUT, you are incorrect in saying gold has less value. With dropping prices, gold has MORE value. Just so's you know...

Where we will truly notice a difference is in high-end items. What we used to have to pay 10K for might now be sold for 5K, but it won't make it any easier to purchase, because we're still not making tons of gold at a time. Back to trade runs for all of us, I guess...lol

Rekikyo
02-16-2015, 05:51 AM
Bot Bans
Regrades sucking billions out of economy daily
People not paying crazy prices for basic materials

Many will QQ, I will not, learn to make gold and you will be fine, Lowered apex prices and now we can afford to Apex accounts again, its a win win

The "not paying insane prices for basic materials" part is actually a biased and irrational response. They are selling for a stupidly low amount atm where farmers are earning nothing for their labor in real terms. It's gotten so bad that people have dropped worker's pots out of the labor cost equation, and they've also decided to ignore opportunity cost comparison to other uses for those labor points. It's gotten so stupid that now F2Ping is really a pipe dream.

@ Kiamori: They may be spamming the same, but on Ollo I have to block a grand total of 1 gold spammer a day now, instead of 20 per hour..... I also don't see as many grind bots..... so something's working.

@ Weelah: Your explanation of economics is lacking.
1. A better way to say this is that as more players enter, the supply shifts outward, which creates a fall in price along the demand curve. As price falls, it creates what is known as a producer surplus, and a consumer shortage. When producers do not sell, the result is they will retain inventory which is creating an opportunity cost, and when that cost exceeds the marginal cost of production per unit, they will stop producing.

As an aside, I think your lumber argument as well as some others are pretty bad ones, because the average shelf span of lumber is around 5 minutes if you place at the bottom listing price. That suggests demand is far greater that the price we are assigning, because realistically we expect day or longer business cycles in most markets. That kind of turnover is insanely fast.

2. Inflation of currency is irrelevant to the topic. It is effectively describing the same phenomenon the OP is observing.

3. The use of the words you used is an atrocious description of supply/demand. As Demand is downward sloping and Supply is upward sloping, you cannot make a comparative statement about them. It has to be Supply in terms of Demand, or Demand in terms of Supply. Such as, "As supply shifts outward (producers produce more), Price falls along the relative to the demand curve. Or, as players create Wagons, the overall demand for thunderstrucks fall, relative to the current supply curve, resulting in reduction of price.

4. This isn't an example that is valid, as the entire AH is selling out of Archeum, suggesting the demand for Archeum far outstrips its ability to provide Archeum. However, the gist is there. And, it's really scary that thunderstruck farmers are willing to take 300g, when logs cost more than they yield to produce, and often the labor point market makes Thunderstrucks worth far higher than 300g...

@ maiyah: Not really. As the game has progressed, fewer people are mining, and simultaneously, the demand for larders has increased. And, in an effort to not let maps go vacant, people are still spending a considerable amount of resources on Gazebos, and larger houses to fill space as it becomes vacant.

Orio
02-16-2015, 06:33 AM
To Rekikyo:

a) Trion release gift packges with high amount of regrade key items
b) In three weeks the prices of everything start to stall
c) Its observed that prices are going down, and stated that "are people using some kind of dupe bug?"

Easy reply is NO. I spent thousands of gold in regrade attempts last three weeks. So I havent spare money to buy anything else :) And from my experience many players did so.

As a result the deflation (not inflation) had forced prices to drop. Most important gold sink has been finally opened for more players

Pwnocchio
02-16-2015, 07:57 AM
If it hasn't been mentioned yet, the afk kick timer being removed has resulted in an increase in daily labor available which would result in a rise in supply.

Orio
02-16-2015, 08:08 AM
If it hasn't been mentioned yet, the afk kick timer being removed has resulted in an increase in daily labor available which would result in a rise in supply.

True. That will decrease cost of labor potions and price of gold per labor point.

Atombomb
02-16-2015, 08:25 AM
Many will say its because apex is creeping downward or because bots are getting dealt with ( lol ) or some overly complicated comparison to the real worlds economy, but its not.

Its because of the population drop. Even the RMT companies are having to slash prices on AH goods to get anything at all sold or it all gets mailed back.

To any nay sayers, just remember that most people understand and agree with me, not you. The games massive bled player numbers and overall reputation online allow me to say that.

I've been scrolling through this thread to find someone with the honest answer. Less players buying means more people selling and prices drop.

It has coincided with the last patch which has left a lot of people disillusioned (myself included) so it is easy to put the blame on the free box. In reality people have had enough of the endless RNG boxes and the stealth tweaks that come with them.

Orio
02-16-2015, 08:29 AM
I've been scrolling through this thread to find someone with the honest answer. Less players buying means more people selling and prices drop.

It has coincided with the last patch which has left a lot of people disillusioned (myself included) so it is easy to put the blame on the free box. In reality people have had enough of the endless RNG boxes and the stealth tweaks that come with them.

That "honest" answer has one big flaw. Population is stable since christmas. And its really not hard to check that on jury queues.

Atombomb
02-16-2015, 08:36 AM
That "honest" answer has one big flaw. Population is stable since christmas. And its really not hard to check that on jury queues.

So there are a lot of afk players logged in to show on the queue. Whether they actually attend jury is another question. I would not use that as an accurate measure of population.

Releasing the afk timer seemed too good to be true. I thought I was being cynical when I thought it was just to make the game appear more populated than to actually appease the customers.

Pwnocchio
02-16-2015, 08:43 AM
Atom,

If players leaving decreases demand for goods, how is it also not decreasing supply?

Empyreus
02-16-2015, 08:52 AM
Atom,

If players leaving decreases demand for goods, how is it also not decreasing supply?

pwn has a point, there is still just as much supply as there has ever been which means people ARE buying.

I know the particular items i sell are still just as popular and still sell just as quick, its just that all the prices involved (for the most part) have gone down. Which have shaved 2-3g per item off my profits, but its still a profit. So the demand IS still there.

Empyreus
02-16-2015, 08:54 AM
I've been scrolling through this thread to find someone with the honest answer. Less players buying means more people selling and prices drop.

It has coincided with the last patch which has left a lot of people disillusioned (myself included) so it is easy to put the blame on the free box. In reality people have had enough of the endless RNG boxes and the stealth tweaks that come with them.

But those who dont buy RNG boxes have nothing to be "annoyed" with and those who do, get frustrated and leave... probably would of left regardless. Of course you can put the blame ont he free box, its what has driven a LOT of prices down since more regrades are happening because moon/sun points are much easier to come by now.

Heck on my AH cluster they went from being 40-50g a pop when the boxes first came out, down to 9-10g today. thats quite a market plummet and makes it quite a bit easier for regrading sinks

Orio
02-16-2015, 09:00 AM
On Nebe the sunpoint reached 100 gold. It was incredible, because regrade attempt costed about 40 gold. Previously it was very rare item to come by. Moonpoints as well.

It was causing that 2/3 of gold used for regrade went to player who was selling the regrade stuff, not "out of system". Now its exactly opposite. Moonpoints dropped below 15 gold and still are falling down, even when I used every single one for a regrade attempt and also purchased few every day.

I regraded complete magnificent cloth set from Rare to Heroic.

Money were flowing into game system not only from trade bots, but only from common players who were just making trade packs for gold, and not giving into system any goods. So the price of gold was going down, while no sink was working as intended.

MagnumMack
02-16-2015, 09:35 AM
I still don't see the issue here for the average player.

I see the wallet-warriors getting butthurt. I see the AH undercutters seeing an unnerving drop in profitability. I also see more f2p guys looking at getting Apex again, which helps keep player population healthy, and I see people crafting again.

And, frankly, I used to do resource runs to sell for gold but I honestly don't see it being worthwhile anymore with the drop in prices so maybe I'll do quicker gold runs from now on. Think about it. A 12-charcoal pack where each unit sells for maybe 80 silver as of last night, possibly less now, so I get about 9-10 gold per pack off that resource. I can keep myself on my own faction's coast doing gold runs and do them faster AND with less risk for the same gold income. No more sneaking into enemy turn ins where I can't defend myself until I am stunlocked. (Worth mentioning, I've made tons of stealth runs and never got killed until after the turn in when I unstealthed. It's stupid easy to sneak by people.)

Someone mentioned Gold Runs and whether they were viable again. Easy answer. For me, it is more worthwhile than going across the sea and working harder and longer for the same or less pay. Freeditch you say? Stealth runs? Takes far too long and I simply don't have that kind of time in game between my 2 jobs. Sorry, guys, but it ain't happening.

I WILL however probably buy a few Apex still. Not necessarily for some wild profit, but because it's GOOD for the overall health of the game to be selling Apex for gold. Like I said, cheaper Apex means more players get Patron, more players stay, more player craft, which will drive prices up when there is a bigger demand for the supply and then we get to play this game of theorizing again in a few months.

This is more how it was meant to be. Trion putting in the huge gold sink was as much to "better prep us for the updates" as it was to save their own playerbase by driving down Apex inflation and helping to remove dirty gold they couldn't find anymore. Think about that. They didn't just want a gold sink to lower inflation naturally, they wanted to try and get rid of more dirty gold that couldn't be tracked the only way consumers can: by making them spend it on RNGesus with only a CHANCE at a payout that effects gameplay in some significant way. This time, for once, I say it honestly: Good job, Trion.

Now I need a shower.

Evilsix
02-16-2015, 09:56 AM
Bot Bans
Regrades sucking billions out of economy daily
People not paying crazy prices for basic materials

Many will QQ, I will not, learn to make gold and you will be fine, Lowered apex prices and now we can afford to Apex accounts again, its a win win

I think its the banned bots and gold pulled out of the economy as well. As people realized what's happening they dumped items in their inventory on the AH early while prices were relatively high. People who bought and horded stuff when prices were high and haven't already sold their stock are going to lose money unless they sit on it until it reinflates. And that could take a while, especially now with fewer people working for their gold.