PDA

View Full Version : [Jesters vs Library Coinpurses] What'd make them equally good in archeum supply? (Feedback)



FlavioSuarez
02-25-2015, 04:13 PM
I've been a coinpurse farmer since the archeum shortage a couple of months ago, my larceny it's on 90k and i've opened thousands of jesters, so in a matter of archeum supply, what'd make the library coinpurse equally or better than jester's coinpurses?

Let's use a sample of 5000 Labor, i can open up to 1250 Jesters and the average of archeum i get is enough to make from 2 to 5 archeum essences (counting up sunlight/moonlight only), 5 being the best i've ever got.

i've farmed a lot in the PTS server in order to test its drops, i've already spent around 25k labor there, with 5000 labor i can open up to 416 librarian coinpurses and the average of archeum is from 0 to 2 archeum essences.(Counting up Sunlight/moonlight only), 0 being the worst i've got and 2 being the best i've ever got.

So what'd like to pointing up, the problem with the librarian coinpurses it's not the drop rate, the main issue it's the labor consumption to open it, the labor cost was designed wrong, let's use other coinpurses as example:
Farmer's Coinpurse - 1 Labor (Drops only Motes)
Priest's Coinpurse - 2 Labor (Drops only Dust)
Merchant's Coinpurse - 3 Labor (Still Drops Dust, others items added)
Noble's Coinpurse - 4 labor (Drops only Shards)
Jester's Coinpurse - 5 Labor (Drops Shards and Crystals)
Library's Coinpurse -15 Labor (Drops Only Essences)

Can you see? there's something really wrong in the labor design, look at every evolution of the coinpurses,it's added 1 labor to open up and the archeum quality evolves to the next level (aside of merchant's which instead of evolve archeum moonpoints,starpoints and sunpoints was added), but something wrong happens from jester to library coinpurses, the archeum evolves to the next level but it's added 10 labor to open this up.

What'd happen if it was added only 1 labor using 6 labor to open up? you could open 2.5 times more coinpurses, what'd lead you to 2.5 times more archeum, instead of 2 essences being the best, SURPRISE, you could get 5 essences, exactly the same i told you can get from jesters at best.

What i want t say here, the drop rate would'nt be bad if the labor hadn't jump from 5 to 15 labor to open up instead of keep adding 1 labor at every new coinpurse like it was being done before.

Ratclerk
02-25-2015, 04:19 PM
I've been a coinpurse farmer since the archeum shortage a couple of months ago, my larceny it's on 90k and i've opened thousands of jesters, so in a matter of archeum supply, what'd make the library coinpurse equally or better than jester's coinpurses?

Let's use a sample of 5000 Labor, i can open up to 1250 Jesters and the average of archeum i get is enough to make from 2 to 5 archeum essences (counting up sunlight/moonlight only), 5 being the best i've ever got.

i've farmed a lot in the PTS server in order to test its drops, i've already spent around 25k labor there, with 5000 labor i can open up to 416 librarian coinpurses and the average of archeum is from 0 to 2 archeum essences.(Counting up Sunlight/moonlight only), 0 being the worst i've got and 2 being the best i've ever got.

So what'd like to pointing up, the problem with the librarian coinpurses it's not the drop rate, the main issue it's the labor consumption to open it, the labor cost was designed wrong, let's use other coinpurses as example:
Farmer's Coinpurse - 1 Labor (Drops only Motes)
Priest's Coinpurse - 2 Labor (Drops only Dust)
Merchant's Coinpurse - 3 Labor (Still Drops Dust, others items added)
Noble's Coinpurse - 4 labor (Drops only Shards)
Jester's Coinpurse - 5 Labor (Drops Shards and Crystals)
Library's Coinpurse -15 Labor (Drops Only Essences)

Can you see? there's something really wrong in the labor design, look at every evolution of the coinpurses,it's added 1 labor to open up and the archeum quality evolves to the next level (aside of merchant's which instead of evolve archeum moonpoints,starpoints and sunpoints was added), but something wrong happens from jester to library coinpurses, the archeum evolves to the next level but it's added 10 labor to open this up.

What'd happen if it was added only 1 labor using 6 labor to open up? you could open 2.5 times more coinpurses, what'd lead you to 2.5 times more archeum, instead of 2 essences being the best, SURPRISE, you could get 5 essences, exactly the same i told you can get from jesters at best.

What i want t say here, the drop rate would'nt be bad if the labor hadn't jump from 5 to 15 labor to open up instead of keep adding 1 labor at every new coinpurse like it was being done before.

It's called, O YOU GUYS DONT HAVE ENOUGH LABOR TO OPEN PURSES....O NO THIS COULD BE A PROBLEM, WAIT I KNOW......HEY GUYS, GREAT NEWS WE HAVE LABOR POTIONS IN THE CASH SHOP. Credit Card OOOOOPEN

Hell, I would not put it past them to have a sale on labor potions at launch of Library.

iggy1212
02-25-2015, 04:54 PM
This is a really good post and sums up how I feel about these new purses. Just want them to be in line with the previous ones. Hate to feel that after grinding all the needed time in the library that these things are just going to sit in my bank or worse get trashed.

Moose Wayne
02-25-2015, 05:21 PM
This is what I've been saying. Drop the labor to 6 and add glowing prisms and garden powders into the drop table. Possibly drop the regular fire/wave lunarite completely from them as well

FlavioSuarez
02-25-2015, 06:46 PM
This is what I've been saying. Drop the labor to 6 and add glowing prisms and garden powders into the drop table. Possibly drop the regular fire/wave lunarite completely from them as well

Yes, they don't need to make this coinpurse better than jester, it just needs to be on pair with it.

Ljungen
02-26-2015, 05:49 AM
Wasn´t Library purses supposed to drop both crystals and essence?

nekrosh
02-26-2015, 09:29 AM
Figured they would nerf library purses. Alpha made 100's of gold an hour in library.
Did they remove stats from library costumes?

Helpherdel
02-26-2015, 10:28 AM
Did you guyz considered the gap there is between opening purses with 90k and 20k larceny ? :rolleyes:

Thomson
02-26-2015, 11:15 AM
Librarian Coinpurses would need to be buffed dramatically.

I can share some data from the spreadsheet that i made while i collected coinpurses.
The sample size of this data is 82761 coinpurses, here are the dropchances i got for archeum.

259 Sunlight Archeum Crystal -> 0,00313%
2079 Sunlight Archeum Shard -> 0,02512%
426 Moonlight Archeum Crystal -> 0,00515%
1370 Moonlight Archeum Shard -> 0,01655%

With that in mind the avarage outcome of 1000 jesters (5k labor) would be roughly
3 Sunlight Crystal
25 Sunlight Shard
5 Moonlight Crystal and
17 Moonlight Shards

Totaling 5 Sunlight Essences and 4 Moonlight Essences and some spare Crystals/Shards.

For 5k labor you can only open 333 librarian coinpurses and i haven't seen anyone getting results close to that.

LiB
02-26-2015, 11:39 AM
Librarian Coinpurses would need to be buffed dramatically.

I can share some data from the spreadsheet that i made while i collected coinpurses.
The sample size of this data is 82761 coinpurses, here are the dropchances i got for archeum.

259 Sunlight Archeum Crystal -> 0,00313%
2079 Sunlight Archeum Shard -> 0,02512%
426 Moonlight Archeum Crystal -> 0,00515%
1370 Moonlight Archeum Shard -> 0,01655%

With that in mind the avarage outcome of 1000 jesters (5k labor) would be roughly
3 Sunlight Crystal
25 Sunlight Shard
5 Moonlight Crystal and
17 Moonlight Shards

Totaling 5 Sunlight Essences and 4 Moonlight Essences and some spare Crystals/Shards.

For 5k labor you can only open 333 librarian coinpurses and i haven't seen anyone getting results close to that.

Good data... however I had to read it multiple times... you don't state what coinpurses the data's from. It suggests Jesters, but when providing statistics you have to clearly state so. You know it will be skim read and they'll just see the %'s thinking its from Librarian purses.

Moose Wayne
02-26-2015, 11:56 AM
Did you guyz considered the gap there is between opening purses with 90k and 20k larceny ? :rolleyes:

70k larceny makes the purses cost 12 labor to open if my math is right. Someone opened 500 purses and got 1 essence out of it. Either with or without high larceny, you aren't opening 500 purses in one sitting.

Thomson
02-26-2015, 12:28 PM
Good data... however I had to read it multiple times... you don't state what coinpurses the data's from. It suggests Jesters, but when providing statistics you have to clearly state so. You know it will be skim read and they'll just see the %'s thinking its from Librarian purses.

Sorry about that, it's for Jesters, i couldn't have farmed and opened so many librarian coinpurses on the PTS

Howitzer
02-26-2015, 01:40 PM
Farmer's Coinpurse - 1 Labor (Drops only Motes)
Priest's Coinpurse - 2 Labor (Drops only Dust)
Merchant's Coinpurse - 3 Labor (Still Drops Dust, others items added)
Noble's Coinpurse - 4 labor (Drops only Shards)
Jester's Coinpurse - 5 Labor (Drops Shards and Crystals)
Library's Coinpurse -15 Labor (Drops Only Essences)

Can you see? there's something really wrong in the labor design

There's one thing you overlook and that is that 1 Essence equates to 4 Crystals when broken down. Meaning, it costs you 15 labor to open but you'd get 4x the amount of archeum from one if you get an Essence compared to a Jester's Coinpurse at only 5 labor per open. I believe that is why the cost is setup the way it is. Regardless, the drop rates are garbage.

Helpherdel
02-26-2015, 05:09 PM
70k larceny makes the purses cost 12 labor to open if my math is right. Someone opened 500 purses and got 1 essence out of it. Either with or without high larceny, you aren't opening 500 purses in one sitting.
I wasn't pointing the difference there is concerning labor cost, I was pointing the fact that you get way better chances to get good things with high larceny profficency.

I farmed a lot and especially on Omega, there was a big difference between 70k+ larceny and 10-20k.

At 70k you'll get 2xcrystals at once in jesters, not that common but it's possible, you get more points, more shards, more everything with higher profficency.

Librarians purses might not be the best, but I'd like to see the results of 10k labor worth (basically the labor you can have each days with worker's) of librarians with a 90k larceny profficency before asking Trion to improve librarians purses.

The rare librarian purses used to be tradeable and contain 3g, 7g, 30g, 70g and such up to 300g (roughly) take that into consideration, and there's archeum now in it.


Librarians purses will make it easy for anyone to burn his full labor within 2 hours while it takes a lot more time with jesters.

Moose Wayne
02-26-2015, 05:33 PM
I wasn't pointing the difference there is concerning labor cost, I was pointing the fact that you get way better chances to get good things with high larceny profficency.

I farmed a lot and especially on Omega, there was a big difference between 70k+ larceny and 10-20k.

At 70k you'll get 2xcrystals at once in jesters, not that common but it's possible, you get more points, more shards, more everything with higher profficency.

Librarians purses might not be the best, but I'd like to see the results of 10k labor worth (basically the labor you can have each days with worker's) of librarians with a 90k larceny profficency before asking Trion to improve librarians purses.

The rare librarian purses used to be tradeable and contain 3g, 7g, 30g, 70g and such up to 300g (roughly) take that into consideration, and there's archeum now in it.


Librarians purses will make it easy for anyone to burn his full labor within 2 hours while it takes a lot more time with jesters.

Trion has confirmed larceny doesn't affect drop rates or what drops from purses, just the labor and time it takes to open purses. I personally notice some difference, but that might just be luck bias

Mangix
02-26-2015, 05:45 PM
Librarian Coinpurses would need to be buffed dramatically.

I can share some data from the spreadsheet that i made while i collected coinpurses.
The sample size of this data is 82761 coinpurses, here are the dropchances i got for archeum.

259 Sunlight Archeum Crystal -> 0,00313%
2079 Sunlight Archeum Shard -> 0,02512%
426 Moonlight Archeum Crystal -> 0,00515%
1370 Moonlight Archeum Shard -> 0,01655%

With that in mind the avarage outcome of 1000 jesters (5k labor) would be roughly
3 Sunlight Crystal
25 Sunlight Shard
5 Moonlight Crystal and
17 Moonlight Shards

Totaling 5 Sunlight Essences and 4 Moonlight Essences and some spare Crystals/Shards.

For 5k labor you can only open 333 librarian coinpurses and i haven't seen anyone getting results close to that.

how do 8 sun crystals = 5 essences, and 8.4 moon crystals = 4 essences?... Did you type it wrong, or did I somehow read it wrong?

Leseno
02-26-2015, 05:49 PM
no red tags will answer forums like these or even read it because they really don't give a fk about the playerbase.

Mangix
02-26-2015, 05:57 PM
no red tags will answer forums like these or even read it because they really don't give a fk about the playerbase.

the request isnt even logical. The jump in labor by only 1 when the value of whats inside multiplies by 5?

What they should do is, like the previous bag, be able to drop the previous (crystal) in less rare quantities, and the new essence in rare quantities, while increasing the labor accordingly. The jump from shard to crystal isn't large in value, so the labor cost going up massively wouldn't make much sense though I think it would make more sense for jesters to be around 6-7 if the labor jump means anything at all. But given the live prices on my server, the jump from 1 crystal to 1 essence is around 80g more (or w/e 500% a crystal price is). It wouldn't make sense for labor to only go up by 1, again.

Helpherdel
02-26-2015, 06:39 PM
Trion has confirmed larceny doesn't affect drop rates or what drops from purses, just the labor and time it takes to open purses. I personally notice some difference, but that might just be luck bias
I would agree with that if I had seen smth since alphas telling me that Trion knows his own game...

I mean not in general, but on precise points they simply have no clue, which is absurd.

Koreans are mad purses farmers and they all agree on their fan sites that profficency does make a difference (especially at 70k+ step), I got the same conclusion from my farm on Omega server and my "pride" apart, I'll gladly trust 2 years players rather than Trion who must ask XLGames to understand what's happening on their game.

It's all about luck on such a small sample (500) considering how low chances are to get said items.

I don't have a mathematics Ph.D. but it's kinda obvious you can't state conclusions from such a small sample.
And even more if profficency has to be taken into account (maybe it doesn't affect at all, but definitely not my trust).

Mangix
02-26-2015, 07:33 PM
I would agree with that if I had seen smth since alphas telling me that Trion knows his own game...

I mean not in general, but on precise points they simply have no clue, which is absurd.

Koreans are mad purses farmers and they all agree on their fan sites that profficency does make a difference (especially at 70k+ step), I got the same conclusion from my farm on Omega server and my "pride" apart, I'll gladly trust 2 years players rather than Trion who must ask XLGames to understand what's happening on their game.

It's all about luck on such a small sample (500) considering how low chances are to get said items.

I don't have a mathematics Ph.D. but it's kinda obvious you can't state conclusions from such a small sample.
And even more if profficency has to be taken into account (maybe it doesn't affect at all, but definitely not my trust).

was pretty enjoyable when they had changes in the game that wasnt in the patch notes they got xD Like MY ♥♥♥♥ING SWIMSUIT CHANGE /rage

FlavioSuarez
02-26-2015, 07:45 PM
the request isnt even logical. The jump in labor by only 1 when the value of whats inside multiplies by 5?

Oh man, are you dumb or pretending to be one? do you really play this game?
Because if you did and you have the ability to read and understand a simple text you woudnt say this kinda of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥:

Farmer's coinpurse: 1 Labor to Open : Contains Archeum Motes
Priest's coinpurse : 2 Labor to Open : Contais Archeum Dusts which is equivalent to 5 Motes.

Can you understand that or do you need another example? 1labor of difference and it drops "5 times more".

Noble's coinpurse: 4 Labor to Open : Contains Archeum Dusts
Jester's coinpurse : 5 Labor to Open : Contais Archeum Shards/Crystals which is equivalent to 5 Dusts/25 Dusts .

The example above makes you look even dumber with your statement because its 1 labor of difference and you can get something that its 25 times more than the previous coinpurse.

Mangix
02-26-2015, 08:31 PM
Oh man, are you dumb or pretending to be one? do you really play this game?
Because if you did and you have the ability to read and understand a simple text you woudnt say this kinda of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥:

Farmer's coinpurse: 1 Labor to Open : Contains Archeum Motes
Priest's coinpurse : 2 Labor to Open : Contais Archeum Dusts which is equivalent to 5 Motes.

Can you understand that or do you need another example? 1labor of difference and it drops "5 times more".

Noble's coinpurse: 4 Labor to Open : Contains Archeum Dusts
Jester's coinpurse : 5 Labor to Open : Contais Archeum Shards/Crystals which is equivalent to 5 Dusts/25 Dusts .

The example above makes you look even dumber with your statement because its 1 labor of difference and you can get something that its 25 times more than the previous coinpurse.

First off, pretty sure the 4 labor purse drops shards. So no that wouldn't be 25 times more...
Secondly, if I need to point out the difference between something where theres a 2-4 gold difference and something where theres a 80-100g difference, you need to seek professional help.

The gold value behind the drop doesn't justify raising the labor massively on the initial purses. But like I said, I think the Jester should actually be slightly higher so that the gold value to labor value makes more sense, and is more obvious, because apparently people (hinty hint hint hint, people like you) are oblivious as hell. It would make the most sense if the bags were more like 1 labor, 2 labor, 3 labor, 5 labor, 8 labor, 15 labor. So that labor has a very distinct value behind it in regards to coin purses, because currently the labor to gold ratio makes zero sense.

If the t4 bag procs a rare drop you'll get like 8g.
If the t5 bag procs a rare drop you'll get like 20g.
If the t6 bag procs a rare drop you'll get like 100g.
You're trying to compare a bag with a high end drop being 20g, to a bag with a high end drop being 100g (at my servers current rates) as if they're in any way equivalent. The coin value of opening the individual bags is also vastly different between the t1-t5 and the t6 library bag. You go from 1s avg - 5s avg, to 30s avg per bag. A very distinct difference.

Do I need to continue spelling it out for you or are you done?

Moose Wayne
02-26-2015, 08:35 PM
First off, pretty sure the 4 labor purse drops shards. So no that wouldn't be 25 times more...
Secondly, if I need to point out the difference between something where theres a 2-4 gold difference and something where theres a 80-100g difference, you need to seek professional help.

The gold value behind the drop doesn't justify raising the labor massively on the initial purses. But like I said, I think the Jester should actually be slightly higher so that the gold value to labor value makes more sense, and is more obvious, because apparently people (hinty hint hint hint, people like you) are oblivious as hell.

If the t4 bag procs a rare drop you'll get like 8g.
If the t5 bag procs a rare drop you'll get like 20g.
If the t6 bag procs a rare drop you'll get like 100g.
You're trying to compare a bag with a high end drop being 20g, to a bag with a high end drop being 100g (at my servers current rates) as if they're in any way equivalent. Do I need to continue spelling it out for you or are you done?

Noble's drop dust and shards. Jester's drop shards and crystals. 5 Dust=1 shard. 5 shards=1 crystal. Basically 5 times as much archeum off your logic

Mangix
02-26-2015, 08:38 PM
Noble's drop dust and shards. Jester's drop shards and crystals. 5 Dust=1 shard. 5 shards=1 crystal. Basically 5 times as much archeum off your logic

http://archeagedatabase.net/us/item/29206/

was basing it off of that, as well as OP stating that its only shards. If that is incorrect, then thats my bad, but the gold value to item drop is still relevant.

The difference between 2-8g and 20-100g is obvious.

Moose Wayne
02-26-2015, 08:45 PM
http://archeagedatabase.net/us/item/29206/

was basing it off of that, as well as OP stating that its only shards. If that is incorrect, then thats my bad, but the gold value to item drop is still relevant.

The difference between 2-8g and 20-100g is obvious.

They drop dust. I've farmed nearly 50k larceny off of Noble purses. They also drop mainly the same stuff as jester purses at a slightly higher rate. The jackpot purse you're citing is way more rare than even thunderstruck trees. 70k larceny here and I've gotten only one. I know people who have gotten 90k larceny and still haven't gotten a jackpot purse

Mangix
02-26-2015, 08:47 PM
They drop dust. I've farmed nearly 50k larceny off of Noble purses. They also drop mainly the same stuff as jester purses at a slightly higher rate. The jackpot purse you're citing is way more rare than even thunderstruck trees. 70k larceny here and I've gotten only one. I know people who have gotten 90k larceny and still haven't gotten a jackpot purse

I haven't referenced the jackpot drop at all.. Any gold values I said were the values of the archeum within.

Moose Wayne
02-26-2015, 08:53 PM
I haven't referenced the jackpot drop at all.. Any gold values I said were the values of the archeum within.

You're assuming the essences from library purses drops at the same rate as archeum from jester's purses. There's videos and screenshots of people opening well over 5k labor worth of purses before they even get one essence. And there's no guarantee it will be sunlight. It may even be starlight and worthless.

Mangix
02-26-2015, 09:01 PM
You're assuming the essences from library purses drops at the same rate as archeum from jester's purses. There's videos and screenshots of people opening well over 5k labor worth of purses before they even get one essence. And there's no guarantee it will be sunlight. It may even be starlight and worthless.

That I can agree on, the current rates make no sense in a number of ways.
The labor value needs to have an obvious reason behind it.
Which seemingly would be the drop rate and value of contents = labor.
If its going to be 3x higher, the value of 1000 bags needs to be 3x higher than the 1000 of the previous tier bag. Or atleast in the ballpark.

We also need slightly more data on the library bag drop rate. There are people with 50k jester coinpurse tables to look at, the same isn't really true with these bags.

Moose Wayne
02-26-2015, 09:08 PM
That I can agree on, the current rates make no sense in a number of ways.
The labor value needs to have an obvious reason behind it.
Which seemingly would be the drop rate and value of contents = labor.
If its going to be 3x higher, the value of 1000 bags needs to be 3x higher than the 1000 of the previous tier bag. Or atleast in the ballpark.

We also need slightly more data on the library bag drop rate. There are people with 50k jester coinpurse tables to look at, the same isn't really true with these bags.

Right now they're about in line with 6 labor costs. Archeum's a little low and they don't drop prisms or powders, but 6 would be a nice number on them

Mangix
02-26-2015, 09:11 PM
Right now they're about in line with 6 labor costs. Archeum's a little low and they don't drop prisms or powders, but 6 would be a nice number on them

If they did what the previous bag does, and drop the higher and lesser tier (crystal and essence), as well as drop prisms and powders, their labor value would make sense.

They don't even really need to change the rates as much as they just need to change the pool.

Moose Wayne
02-26-2015, 09:16 PM
If they did what the previous bag does, and drop the higher and lesser tier (crystal and essence), as well as drop prisms and powders, their labor value would make sense.

They don't even really need to change the rates as much as they just need to change the pool.

They'd also need to drop the silver per purse to around 6-7s. I don't know the numbers off of jester's but I think it's close to 5-6s per.