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Yaminn
02-28-2015, 02:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNFM3At_DdE

This is an excerpt from friday's live stream where Khrolan talks about how there isn't enough Archeum in the game. He really seems to care about this issue.

moufazin
02-28-2015, 02:41 PM
Agreed. I was raging over the archeum problem until I saw Khrolan's live stream archeum talk yesterday. Seems he really is our advocate. I finally have some hope that we will eventually see increased archeum in some way (and not just in easymode "divine boxes"). He seemed passionate and that's all I needed to see. I just hope he continues to speak to us openly like this so that we all understand what is going on at Trion... it soothes the masses.

GailMacFade
02-28-2015, 05:26 PM
Make cows ♥♥♥♥ archeum.

Buckfast
02-28-2015, 06:57 PM
Agreed. I was raging over the archeum problem until I saw Khrolan's live stream archeum talk yesterday. Seems he really is our advocate. I finally have some hope that we will eventually see increased archeum in some way (and not just in easymode "divine boxes"). He seemed passionate and that's all I needed to see. I just hope he continues to speak to us openly like this so that we all understand what is going on at Trion... it soothes the masses.

Take your Blinkers off, They don't give a ♥♥♥♥ apart from taking your money he was squirming in his chair the whole time lol

Caledric
02-28-2015, 09:21 PM
Take your Blinkers off, They don't give a ♥♥♥♥ apart from taking your money he was squirming in his chair the whole time lol

Nice! You made an alt account just to say that!

BigMac
02-28-2015, 09:55 PM
I think a proper solution would to adjust the Archeum trees to produce more shards and crystals instead of dust.
[NOTE] Yes, I do own several tree farms.

Empyreus
02-28-2015, 10:12 PM
Take your Blinkers off, They don't give a ♥♥♥♥ apart from taking your money he was squirming in his chair the whole time lol

Someone is a Cynic!

You seem to have an undue amount of hate towards a producer oddly...

Rekikyo
02-28-2015, 10:32 PM
I'm just going to quote myself:
Well let's see. Given most people here will have an 11 LP cost per purse, at current prices,

Gold 3602
Sunlight Essence 260g
Starlight 24g
Moonlight 270g
Superior Wave Lunarite 1843g
Fire Lunarite 2128g
Fine Wave Lunarite 660g
Fire Lunarite 1210g

And, then Moonpoints and Sunpoints are iffy, but prior to the release or 1.7 I think we can assume they will at least recover to 50g after the divine box is gone.

Sunpoint 1200g
Moonpoint 2450g

So, 10,000 purses yields ....

13,647g

If we assume that 1 LP is 3s, that's
3300g in LP.

Profit: 10,347g.

I don't know why you persist to complain about these purses.

Are they the primary supplier of Archeum? No.

However, that's not a bad thing. It makes players decide, whether they are going to farm Jester's for Archeum on substantially weak mobs that do not offer a challenge, or if they are going to farm Lunarite and gold on Library Purses.

Furthermore, we all know that Archeum is going become the prevalent use of land in the game soon, when the rates become either 16 Archeum Dusts, or 10 Shards from an Archeum Tree. This, ofc, is because nothing else we use land for is profitable, and the Archeum will be. In other words, we will soon have 2 proficiencies supplying archeum, rather than just one. So, supply of Archeum should fix itself somewhat at the expense of gilda for the Archeum trees. So what if it doesn't all come from Purses? The purses have other things which are very valuable too. And what do OTHER proficiencies for production of ingredients have to offer compared to purses? nothing. Farming is garbage, Logging is Garbage, Mining is Garbage, Husbandry USUALLY garbage. Purses are bar none the most profitable use of LP on raw materials. Stop feeling entitled to more.


And:

Not at all. Although it's not in this patch, very soon Archeum prices will be directly tied to the 3 gilda cost of an Archeum Tree (even some people in THIS patch will start farming Archeum Trees).

The gold inflation is an iffy question. If more people are producing gilda packs to fund archeum trees, less people are farming gold trade runs. So, there is both an inflationary force and a deflationary force being introduced. Furthermore, there lies the possibility that many land gold run traders will instead pick up farming library packs as a source of gold, which replaces one gold producing endeavor with another.

Have you noticed yet, that even though fishing is the de-facto #1 gold producing activity in the game, very few people actually do it? That's because it's hard to predict what everyone else is going to do (Piracy, limits on farming Thunderstrucks and acquiring gilda for a fishing ship).

It's also not like they are dwarfing the production of Archeum for the lower purses. People can still hit level 41 mobs for 30ks and farm them all day and super fast with half their skill bars, and farm Jesters, and do well.

It's also significant to note, that our gold sinks are working. Our prices in game are going down and down and down, with no sign of stopping, now that the role of bots and gold spammers has been limited, and the gold supply mostly is produced/consumed by real players. That suggests we are actually OVER-utilizing gold sinks. And, that's not a good place to be either, because falling prices depreciates the value of players spending money in a F2P Item mall, which is far more dangerous than the devaluation of in game items in comparison to item mall ones. If anything, we NEED another source of gold, or the spenders won't be here long.

And, XL games also observed a lack of Lunarite in the system and made them drop -feasible. I have to agree with that assessment. Unlike Archeum, you cannot upgrade Wave, Fire, Earth, and Wind Lunarites from previous tiers. That means that for us to make Handicrafting and high tier Lunagems to be worth producing, we needed a higher supply of them, ESPECIALLY since when you fail to link one, they all break. We can't really make Tier 3 of higher Celerity Lunagems and 5 stack them into boots when the supply is as low as it is. We can't make tier 3 or greater Attack speed or Cast Speed Lunagems either. These ALL significantly affect pvp, but atm, unless you are a serious spender, they make 0 sense to use.

And

Atm, the profit margins on Library Purses is already VERY justified. The Gold alone from those purses covers the LP cost of opening. Everything else, is profit. And, the Library Purses have around a 1.2% chance of dropping the Tier 2 Lunarite, which is only a .21% chance from Jester's. It ALSO has a .6% chance of dropping the Tier 3 Lunarite, which both have severe shortages in the game atm, and cannot be upgraded from previous tiers. The video in which someone opened 10,000 purses, they netted a 10,000g profit. Which guess what? Is plenty of seed money to start buying Archeum from other players and making delphinads, etc.

All your suggestion would do, depending on the whims of players on the judgement of what the purses are worth, is either increase the profits from 200% to 300% or greater, Or if they follow economics, would drive the price of all purse drops down, and make people complain about the loss of profits from the purses. Another negative result, is less people will be farming other things, and the adjustments made to Archeum trees will be meaningless. It's never a good thing, when only 1 activity in this game, is 100-200% more profitable than ANY other activity.

elgen
02-28-2015, 10:35 PM
Two things come to mind as to fixes.

One would be to increase the amount that comes from cash shop crates. I know a lot of folks would boo at the thought but when it comes down to it people buy the rng boxes any ways. Might as well put a bit more archeum in them. Maybe even rng boxes that only give archeum for both the market and token shop.

The next would kill three birds with one stone. Change how archeum is upgraded to the next tier and allow it to be crafted from stabilizer's. Right now the amount of stabilizers in game far exceeds what is needed to craft. If they can be used to produce archeum it will increase their over all value and encourage more social interaction while doing over sea's trade runs.

X charcoal stabilizer's = x archeum dust
x archeum dust + x rock salt = x archeum shard's and so on

I don't think it should give more per time spent and labor then jester purses but it would be another source of archeum production in game while improving the value of trade runs that are already in place.

Veerdin
02-28-2015, 10:36 PM
It's all well and good that Khrolan agrees with us and is "talking" about the Archeum, and that there are plenty of "discussions" on it.

But we are yet to see any sort of change.

So far, Archeum has gone through three stages of change - Alpha, where it was plentiful and crafting was widespread, creating a strong crafting market. Beta, where it was awful and you were lucky to get a single weapon past Conquerors tier. And the live game, where... It's still pretty bad. Not as bad as Beta, mind, but still pretty bad.

As the playerbase drops (and it is dropping) not only are we seeing significantly less Archeum in the world, we're seeing even less crafted gear in the world, too. And what is made, gets sold at such high prices that it's beyond the reach of most players now days. Gone are the days when you could snag an Epherium from the Auction House for 650 gold, now days, you're lucky to find one under 2,000. And that's for a low-quality green tier one, at best.

The devs can tell us that they are "talking" about this issue all they want, but the complaints and the quitters are not going to top until we see some changes.

Caliban
02-28-2015, 10:47 PM
This video is actually infuriating to me. It's March for ♥♥♥♥'s sake and we're still talking about a severe lack of archeum in the game. ArcheAge was dead on arrival at launch because of archeum shortages. I can't tell you how many people I know who quit the game over issues that can be directly traced back to a severe lack of archeum. So, even if they fix it, the ship has sailed. Who are they fixing it for at this point? People aren't going to come running back to ArcheAge because they finally fixed a problem that was THE biggest issue before the game even launched. The real ♥♥♥♥ty part is that this was almost a great game.

Kirah
02-28-2015, 10:56 PM
I'm just going to quote myself:
Well let's see. Given most people here will have an 11 LP cost per purse, at current prices,

Superior Wave Lunarite 1843g
Fire Lunarite 2128g
Fine Wave Lunarite 660g
Fire Lunarite 1210g

And, then Moonpoints and Sunpoints are iffy, but prior to the release or 1.7 I think we can assume they will at least recover to 50g after the divine box is gone.

Sunpoint 1200g
Moonpoint 2450g

So, 10,000 purses yields ....

13,647g

If we assume that 1 LP is 3s, that's
3300g in LP.

Profit: 10,347g.

I don't know why you persist to complain about these purses.



The problem is that you don't use current prices for *points and they inflate quite a bit the income (and they won't go back to 50g for long, if they will at all), plus, as you said, these purses mainly drop lunarites so their price will likely go down (greater supply), plus we don't know yet the price of the superior ones.

Also you assume 3s per lp, but the worker's compensation price suggests at least 6s per lp and to open that amount of purses in a reasonable amount of time you are forced to use them.

vajtswv
03-01-2015, 01:20 AM
hmmm don't seem to be any archeum problems from my AH clusters

moonpoint crystals selling for around 8-10 gold per

sunlight crystals ranging from 20-30 gold, but shards are actually 3-4 gold per, price from sunlight might rise due to more crafting for obsidian

but atm prices are stable and plenty in AH, its like trion is literally putting the stuff on AH, maybe lol

Rekikyo
03-01-2015, 01:33 AM
The problem is that you don't use current prices for *points and they inflate quite a bit the income (and they won't go back to 50g for long, if they will at all), plus, as you said, these purses mainly drop lunarites so their price will likely go down (greater supply), plus we don't know yet the price of the superior ones.

Also you assume 3s per lp, but the worker's compensation price suggests at least 6s per lp and to open that amount of purses in a reasonable amount of time you are forced to use them.

We have already proven that Supply/demand is actually irrelevant to most of the players in this game, even though you like to claim it is. Proof can easily be found in thunderstrucks' prices, Apex prices, lumber prices, and stone brick prices, all of which have substantial demand which encourages purchases to occur within 6 hours, and usually far shorter. If this was not the case, the supply being sold would reflect it, and we would have many, many pages of each, for beyond production, and the number of pages being sold would be exponentially increase over time. But, we haven't seen the number of pages of ANY of these products going up. There's been consistently 2-3 pages of Tstrucks in a cluster, consistently 1-2 pages of Apex, consistently 12 pages of Lumber, consistently 6 pages of Stone Brick.

What actually drives prices in this game, is PERCIEVED supply and demand, and the association with randomness of drops. And that is precisely why Jester's Purses are profitable: you never know what you are going to profit off 250 purses, because of drop randomness. And, because most people do not save up 10,000 Jesters and open them all at once, most purely have a stock observation of what the supplies are. More likely, in 1000 LP, someone's going to get about 1-10 Tier 2 Lunarites, which is still going to suggest that 1) they are random and valuable and 2) they are in PERCIEVED Short supply.

Furthermore, what do you think developed Archeum prices versus Lunarite prices in the first place, give then are both from the same activity? Garden Powder? Glowing Shards? You need 100 Glowing Shards to make a high end glider, and they're the rarest drop from purses at .16% chance drop. Yet, they are also one of the cheapest items. Garden Powder's just as needed for high end weapon crafting as Archeum, yet guess what? Archeum sells for 3-4 times as much, EVEN THOUGH IT CAN BE REFINED FROM LOWER TIERS. And then look at Lunarite. Luna gems carry a very high benefit if built in correctly, ESPECIALLY Celerity, Torrent, and some others. They all require lots of lunarite, and actually affect pvp in ways just as powerful as weapon upgrading. Furthermore, they can't be upgraded from lower tiers, and when you fail to link one, they all break.

In Contrast, your weapons you craft are permanent. Logic says, if the population is shrinking and over time, more people have maxed gear, the "Demand" for crafted weapons should fall over time. Yet, Archeum prices rise while everything else in the game falls. If less people need weapons, it should imply less people are crafting them, which increases the inventory of Archeum for sale, which should push margins per unit down, and should also imply that less people are buying them, suggesting demand should be falling, also driving prices down.

I mean, that's what we argue about Thunderstrucks too. That most people have built their wagons and ships, driving prices down. Yet why don't we argue that for Archeum? Because we consider purses must be profitable. If we weren't instilled with this stubborn idea that random purses should be profitable, we would be letting economics take hold, and opening 1 purse would on average's cost = the revenue from one purse.

And, I do not percieve LP = any specific price of labor. I analyze all scenarios and assumptions of Labor's cost. The majority of players are pricing their sales like the only LP that would matter is the LP from patron. That's 1.7-3.4s. We used to use worker's, which is what I argued they were worth because of substitution and opportunity costs associated with labor. However, the price of every item in game does NOT reflect worker's atm.

And, you are not forced to use Workers. You could spend 38 days opening 10,000 purses and still be pretty happy that those purses paid for months of Apex.

Kirah
03-01-2015, 02:13 AM
We have already proven that Supply/demand is actually irrelevant to most of the players in this game, even though you like to claim it is.
[cut]
And, you are not forced to use Workers. You could spend 38 days opening 10,000 purses and still be pretty happy that those purses paid for months of Apex.

Look, I never said "supply/demand", I just said "greater supply", which means more people going to undercut the price to sell faster and my whole point was that you did not use current prices for at least three items, sun/moonpoints and superior lunarite (which price is yet unknown).

At the actual price of *points, you would gross 490g from moonpoints and 480 from sunpoints (minus AH fees), for a new total of 10967 (assuming your price of superior lunarite is right).
Subtracting the 3300g lp cost you assumed, you would gross 7667g which is, assuming max larceny proficiency, around 7s per purse.

Also I said "reasonable amount of time" and in my opinion 38 days to check your loot without being able to do anything else is not reasonable.

Concluding, the new purses are not good enough.

sSaSs
03-01-2015, 02:22 AM
I think a proper solution would to adjust the Archeum trees to produce more shards and crystals instead of dust.
[NOTE] Yes, I do own several tree farms.

in Korea, the 1.7 patch done that, you get 10-20 dust to 10-15 shard, each harvest but it destroy the tree (you can obtain seed in purss).

on the 1.7 there is also a mean to get sunpoint/moonpoint, it's the same way as the archeum, you need a new resource that was implanted in auroria to cultivate them.


the 1.7 answer many problems the game have and it's a shame that we didn't get it sooner, the game with 1.7 is how it should have been at the start, it would have made the game extremely Good!

Zefyres
03-01-2015, 04:44 AM
Not to be a devils advocate but the moonpoints and sunpoints from the event did massively spike weapon, armor, and therefore archeum demand/prices by a huge degree. I wasn't following weapons but armor prices initially jumped around +100% on Aranzeb's cluster for epherium grade (even more for illustrious and auroria), and then dropped a little from there, in part because of the overall deflation from regrades and possible action against gold sellers. So the prices we have from the last month are not necessarily anything near their 'normalized' prices.

Not saying we don't need more archeum sources but the prices we have are artificially distorted and over time, a little extra supply, a little lower demand, and not being hand-fed sunpoints and moonpoints could go a long way in making prices more sane.

junweizhu
03-01-2015, 06:07 AM
Not to be a devils advocate but the moonpoints and sunpoints from the event did massively spike weapon, armor, and therefore archeum demand/prices by a huge degree. I wasn't following weapons but armor prices initially jumped around +100% on Aranzeb's cluster for epherium grade (even more for illustrious and auroria), and then dropped a little from there, in part because of the overall deflation from regrades and possible action against gold sellers. So the prices we have from the last month are not necessarily anything near their 'normalized' prices.

Not saying we don't need more archeum sources but the prices we have are artificially distorted and over time, a little extra supply, a little lower demand, and not being hand-fed sunpoints and moonpoints could go a long way in making prices more sane.

I guess waiting until after the patches would show how supply and demand would become.

Noaani
03-01-2015, 07:31 AM
The big issue to any archeum addition to the game is that it needs not put the game in to over supply when archeum trees get changed in 1.7.

To be honest, the only thing I can think of to increase archeum supply now without ending up with an over supply post 1.7 (other than the temporary giveaway they mentioned) is to bring those changes to archeum trees live now. Increasing acheum to coin purses would make them the only viable money making method in the game - they are already arguable the best, they do not need to be better.

Rhime
03-01-2015, 07:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNFM3At_DdE

This is an excerpt from friday's live stream where Khrolan talks about how there isn't enough Archeum in the game. He really seems to care about this issue.

All talk and more "discussions"...in the end you'll all end up opening the wallet to pay for their solution. Wait for it, it's coming...

sillywabbituk
03-01-2015, 08:49 AM
Want to fix archeum khrolan! its simple add Armor/weapon drops back to the game as drops.

elgen
03-01-2015, 08:55 AM
We have already proven that Supply/demand is actually irrelevant to most of the players in this game, even though you like to claim it is. Proof can easily be found in thunderstrucks' prices, Apex prices, lumber prices, and stone brick prices, all of which have substantial demand which encourages purchases to occur within 6 hours, and usually far shorter. If this was not the case, the supply being sold would reflect it, and we would have many, many pages of each, for beyond production, and the number of pages being sold would be exponentially increase over time. But, we haven't seen the number of pages of ANY of these products going up. There's been consistently 2-3 pages of Tstrucks in a cluster, consistently 1-2 pages of Apex, consistently 12 pages of Lumber, consistently 6 pages of Stone Brick.



Supply and demand is relevant your proof is wrong given I think because you are unaware of the production rates. The average thunder struck farming can produces about 3-6 thunderstrucks per DAY. With zerg guilds producing even more by planting 2k plus pines in sunfield and exloch. On top of that thunderstrucks can often cluster off some kind of globale proc so even a protected land owner can produce 1 per day when this happens. There was this one guy on the eu server's that openly defended my tree's and I did not even know him personally. So I offered to sell his guild thunderstrucks for a below market price. His requested order for this week alone was 20 tree's so it's safe to say the demand is still there.You have a supply of wood that is higher then the demand due to the massive amount of tree's it takes per thunderstruck.

Stone is high because 90% of the NA players that use their free labor on the eu server's and the eu players that use thier NA labor do so by mining as it is a easy way to produce gold with little effort and land required. This is also why on average apex costs in eu is 100-200 gold higher then NA.

junweizhu
03-01-2015, 10:43 AM
Want to fix archeum khrolan! its simple add Armor/weapon drops back to the game as drops.

I don't quite understand this part, please elaborate.

John Small
03-01-2015, 10:50 AM
xlgames changed/removed archeum in 1.0 for two reasons. One, to combat the fact that archeage was a year old and had tons of gear due to archeum being extremely plentiful, making it "worthless". This excuse sounds really good and convincing, and it's designed to cover up reason number two. What's two? The less talked about reason, was to push new players into the cash shop. 1.0 heavily monetized every aspect of the game. This is when the game saw sweeping labor changes, drastic reductions in things like npc values, treasure chests, ect. It was first major patch after archeage transitioned from p2p to f2p. The archeum change, as we have experienced it, made it effectively impossible for new players to get level approporiate gear. So what did xlgames really do? This is the time period where they added gear to the cash shop, to help people now that archeum was rare wink wink.

Now, we dont have gear in the cash shop. We never have and most likely never will since trion seems to be committed to keeping this game as un-p2w as possible while still having a cash shop, but this is a major problem for us and represents a huge disconnect from reality that trion and xlgames have. The reason xlgames doesnt want to add more archeum to our version is because the korean players will ♥♥♥♥♥ and say "why the ♥♥♥♥ do they get to craft, why the ♥♥♥♥ do we have to buy gear from the cash shop, how dare you treat non-korean players better than us" and it would be a huge forum drama. It's the same reason we cant ever have 20 lp/5min while online or have equal offline rates. In korea, most people play from a pc cafe/pcbang which means they cant afk all day for labor. Korean developers get extra money when people play from pc bangs so thats why pc bang users get bonus labor and bonus events.

This is why we will never see significant increases in archeum in game through ingame methods or labor changes. It doesnt matter how good of an idea anyone comes up with, xlgames will not implement it because then the koreans would ask for it, and then xlgames would lose their lucrative new player/p2wjustragequitanddeletedhisgearsoheneedsanewset market.

The people at trion need to grow a spine, equip a pair of steel balls, and make demands of xlgames to make these changes. This isnt something they can tiptoe around, they have to be firm, and make demands if they want it to ever happen, because xlgames does not want it to happen. They dont care about our data, they dont care about what we beg for. Its not in their best interests and its a big joke/game to them and trion needs to realize that. Trion needs to take a dominant position in this relationship and put their foot down if they seriously care about archeum.

tldr; xlgames is jerking us around, trion needs to tell them to stop being dicks.

Rekikyo
03-01-2015, 11:26 AM
Look, I never said "supply/demand", I just said "greater supply", which means more people going to undercut the price to sell faster and my whole point was that you did not use current prices for at least three items, sun/moonpoints and superior lunarite (which price is yet unknown).

At the actual price of *points, you would gross 490g from moonpoints and 480 from sunpoints (minus AH fees), for a new total of 10967 (assuming your price of superior lunarite is right).
Subtracting the 3300g lp cost you assumed, you would gross 7667g which is, assuming max larceny proficiency, around 7s per purse.

Also I said "reasonable amount of time" and in my opinion 38 days to check your loot without being able to do anything else is not reasonable.

Concluding, the new purses are not good enough.

My point was, that players seeking to make profits assign prices based upon what they believe they would be making a profit at. It's not unreasonable to believe the mid level lunarites will be somewhat resistant to change in price, because while right now, the market for Mid level lunarite is premature, because no one can afford to build high end Lunagems the market will reach maturity. People will consume them as fast as they are produced to upgrade their gear beyond tier 1. This will give the sensation that there are shortages, and that demand is extraordinarily high, which will make players resist dropping the price. And, and worst, even if they do let the prices drop, they will not drop them below what they consider a profitable level.

As for moonpoint and sunpoint, your protest is reviewed and denied. Once the Divine boxes are gone, the supply will shrink drastically as people consume 20-30 in one go, trying to make better obsidian weapons and armor. We're not talking just weeks until 1.7.... we're talking several months. When this occurs, we will see farmers post prices they expect to make the randomness worth their while.

Rekikyo
03-01-2015, 11:38 AM
Supply and demand is relevant your proof is wrong given I think because you are unaware of the production rates. The average thunder struck farming can produces about 3-6 thunderstrucks per DAY. With zerg guilds producing even more by planting 2k plus pines in sunfield and exloch. On top of that thunderstrucks can often cluster off some kind of globale proc so even a protected land owner can produce 1 per day when this happens. There was this one guy on the eu server's that openly defended my tree's and I did not even know him personally. So I offered to sell his guild thunderstrucks for a below market price. His requested order for this week alone was 20 tree's so it's safe to say the demand is still there.You have a supply of wood that is higher then the demand due to the massive amount of tree's it takes per thunderstruck.

Stone is high because 90% of the NA players that use their free labor on the eu server's and the eu players that use thier NA labor do so by mining as it is a easy way to produce gold with little effort and land required. This is also why on average apex costs in eu is 100-200 gold higher then NA.

Your arguments are really stupid. If the supply of Tstrucks was exceeding demand, the AH would be glutted. they aren't. Also, these mythical tree farms beg me to ask: why would anyone plant in the wild anymore? The LP cost to plant and Chop is enourmous, and to get the number of trees you are talking about, you would have to plant 600-700 trees. Who is not going to find that farm? And, once someone's stolen from you once, why would you replant that farm? Furthermore, if you instead choose to leave the trees up to die naturally, where do you plant the next farm?

You're also naive if you think the average farm gives 3-6 Tstrucks. Yes. I've had farms that gave 5 (577 trees), but I've also had 8 500 tree farms in a row give 0. Generally, the larger the farm you plant, the lower the probability of getting Tstrucks. There is a tendency for the RNG winrand_32 to repeat the same outcomes.

And, your arguments about demand being high is contradictory to a drop in price. That suggests he's a bulk buyer who KNOWS Tstrucks are too low, and expects them to rise in price.

And you have stone wrong. Stone Supply is LOW, yet prices are falling as less people are mining them. On Nebe, I can mine any time of day at ANY mine, and not find a soul. I literally teleport from mine to mine etc and can burn 5k in an hour because no one's there. If Supply/Demand was accurate, the price should be pretty high if no one's farming because of cost.
(I've planted over 40,000 trees myself, so I think I know this market quite well.... I have 6 toons with 90k proficiency).

sillywabbituk
03-01-2015, 01:05 PM
I don't quite understand this part, please elaborate.


disenchant trash armor :) used to be lots and lots of drops of just armors

Zengiar
03-01-2015, 03:49 PM
I think a proper solution would to adjust the Archeum trees to produce more shards and crystals instead of dust.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpiKVRPHa-0

GailMacFade
03-01-2015, 03:53 PM
tldr; xlgames is jerking us around, trion needs to tell them to stop being dicks.
Yes, they need to man up. Either get archeum to real levels which will bring average endgame gear (epherium lvl) to sub 1k prices (and make labour regen same offline/online as a side) or get gear in cash shop. That's all about it. All other "solutions" are band aids. XL (assuming Trion says truth about their relationship) is far detached from reality of western gaming, and/or they just want to milk us stupid westerners for about a year...

From my observation in game character progression (gear) pretty much stopped for most of people at mag/hasla level. Only people who spend considerable amount of money or are in game 24/7 are still advancing their characters.

Myrgatroid
03-01-2015, 07:30 PM
Still skeptical/a bit salty about AA, but really happy to see this video. Hard to know if our wishes and the NA team's wishes will ever see the light of day, BUT, very glad to see that we have such an advocate in Khrolan. I've been making some salty posts/comments recently. I'd very possibly feel differently and would be more supportive, but we HAVE NOT SEEN this type of video regularly enough. Putting a human face behind the NA team, COMMUNICATING openly with the player base is really big to me. So, glad to see this.

Trying to hold out for 55 then 1.7, but am honestly not sure how long I'll continue to play this game (which is a shame, because I enjoy the game, it had much more potential than it has realized thus far). Just want to see crafting become more viable (this is coming from someone who has had GOOD luck with RNG), want to see them continuing to crack down on RMT, removing bots, and basically just continue to strive to provide a level playing field for their player-base.

We need more of this please Trion. If nothing else, you are boosting the morale of your dwindling player-base.

elgen
03-01-2015, 08:46 PM
As for moonpoint and sunpoint, your protest is reviewed and denied. Once the Divine boxes are gone, the supply will shrink drastically as people consume 20-30 in one go, trying to make better obsidian weapons and armor. We're not talking just weeks until 1.7.... we're talking several months. When this occurs, we will see farmers post prices they expect to make the randomness worth their while.

The fact of the matter is the average person level 50 and above will produce 1-2 moonpoints per day. That compined with the fact people have 50-100 stored means they are not going to be any where near the price they used to be. Obsidian shoudl be set the same way as hasla in that it is a waste to use regrades on them till they are the max tier.

Lygophobia
03-01-2015, 09:09 PM
Obsidian shoudl be set the same way as hasla in that it is a waste to use regrades on them till they are the max tier.
Obsidian is crafted the same way as any other weapon (diffrent materials only) so you regrade Tier 1 as high as you want it then craft t2-t6 and hope it get even higher

elgen
03-01-2015, 09:58 PM
Your arguments are really stupid. If the supply of Tstrucks was exceeding demand, the AH would be glutted. they aren't. Also, these mythical tree farms beg me to ask: why would anyone plant in the wild anymore? The LP cost to plant and Chop is enourmous, and to get the number of trees you are talking about, you would have to plant 600-700 trees. Who is not going to find that farm? And, once someone's stolen from you once, why would you replant that farm? Furthermore, if you instead choose to leave the trees up to die naturally, where do you plant the next farm?

You're also naive if you think the average farm gives 3-6 Tstrucks. Yes. I've had farms that gave 5 (577 trees), but I've also had 8 500 tree farms in a row give 0. Generally, the larger the farm you plant, the lower the probability of getting Tstrucks. There is a tendency for the RNG winrand_32 to repeat the same outcomes.


LOL I like that the the more tree's you plant the less chance you get of getting thunderstruck. That right there is enough to void every thing else you have spewed here. The fact of the matter is I have seen first hand tree farms that cover all of sunfields housing area. I myself tend to have a average of 1k-1.5k pine tree's growing in different spots per week on different server's with a average of 3-6 trees per 500 pines. No I never chop down pines and I never gone into the red doing it even when a large amount of my farms are hit. Then again I am not greedy and will often give back to the community of those servers by selling thunderstrucks up to 100 less then the ah in person or plant 500 + pines around newbie citys as a thank you.

There is still a demand for thunderstruck 1/3 of the plots in the game that have tree's on them don't have it for the shade. The problem is you need gold to make gold. And the people that need thunderstrucks for haulers and fishing boats are not producing at lot of gold in the first place. That's why it sucks for new f2p people you need to save up enough for patron then save up enough for other things just so you can make gold. Most have a hard enough time paying taxes and patron.

Just because you don't see any one when your playing on one server does not mean it's all the server's in the cluster or game. On the Eu server's that I parked my alts when I mined I would have to fight 4 other NA players for nodes all the time with their free labor.

elgen
03-01-2015, 10:16 PM
I will also add that most people are not mad about the purses or how much gold they can earn you. It was suggested archuem would be better from the new purses. Which we find out is no where near true after many have tested it so most are upset that the problem won't be fix soon and that they feel they have been lied. I don't blame trion when XLgames is the one telling them no. But most don't want to wait another three months for the next so called fix.

Rekikyo
03-01-2015, 10:16 PM
The fact of the matter is the average person level 50 and above will produce 1-2 moonpoints per day. That compined with the fact people have 50-100 stored means they are not going to be any where near the price they used to be. Obsidian shoudl be set the same way as hasla in that it is a waste to use regrades on them till they are the max tier.

They may not recover to the 80-90g they used to be. But they will most certainly will recover quite a bit. Moonpoints specifically, even with the divine boxes, will run out. And no. Not every person will get 1-2 moonpoints per day, because not everyone farms purses. Maybe 10% of players will, which heavily dilutes the market of exactly who is farming them vs who is needing them.

As for the weapons themselves, they are NOT like Hasla Tier 1 to Tier 2 where they go from rare to arcane via crafting. They regrade like Delphinad does; you have to use Armor regrade Scrolls. Unlike Hasla weapons, each tier is like going from Illustrious to Magnificent, rather than a grade. Except you don't need a specific Affix to go to the next tier. You just need a Salvaged wep of a specific level, and ingredients.

elgen
03-01-2015, 10:40 PM
They may not recover to the 80-90g they used to be. But they will most certainly will recover quite a bit. Moonpoints specifically, even with the divine boxes, will run out. And no. Not every person will get 1-2 moonpoints per day, because not everyone farms purses. Maybe 10% of players will, which heavily dilutes the market of exactly who is farming them vs who is needing them.

As for the weapons themselves, they are NOT like Hasla Tier 1 to Tier 2 where they go from rare to arcane via crafting. They regrade like Delphinad does; you have to use Armor regrade Scrolls. Unlike Hasla weapons, each tier is like going from Illustrious to Magnificent, rather than a grade. Except you don't need a specific Affix to go to the next tier. You just need a Salvaged wep of a specific level, and ingredients.

They will go up in price but not near what it once was. most people are going to start farming for obsidian mats since most should be bind on pick up. It's within reason that on average they will spend at least one hour a day farming for those mats and gaining 100-200+ of the new purses if they are in the library. We both agree that while the lirbray purses do not give a good amount of archeum they are still worth opening if you have them. Points have a drop rate of about 1 in 100 out of the new purses moonpoints being the highest followed by starpoints and then sun. So while the demand will be up for them the over all stock and produced supply of them is way higher then it was with just jesters before the dailys.

elgen
03-01-2015, 10:48 PM
We also have to consider gold it self a limited resource. There was a point in time when most gold trade runs simply not worth doing given the cost of worker comp's. This left fishing and castles as the primary source of gold being produced in game by the system. Yet because of ah tax and every one upgrading gear with free points the amount of gold leaving the system spiked. With the new purses giving a large amount of coins it's hard to tell how the economy will react long term.

Rekikyo
03-01-2015, 10:54 PM
They will go up in price but not near what it once was. most people are going to start farming for obsidian mats since most should be bind on pick up. It's within reason that on average they will spend at least one hour a day farming for those mats and gaining 100-200+ of the new purses if they are in the library. We both agree that while the lirbray purses do not give a good amount of archeum they are still worth opening if you have them. Points have a drop rate of about 1 in 100 out of the new purses moonpoints being the highest followed by starpoints and then sun. So while the demand will be up for them the over all stock and produced supply of them is way higher then it was with just jesters before the dailys.

Sunpoints are up to 29g after 1 day of Divine Boxes being gone. They were 15g yesterday.

Gallus
03-02-2015, 04:09 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNFM3At_DdE

This is an excerpt from friday's live stream where Khrolan talks about how there isn't enough Archeum in the game. He really seems to care about this issue.

"Passion"? Ya what I saw was condescending BS and no substance.

"Add archeum, WELL HOW MUCH!?" he says. First of all Khrolan, you're the ones that work for the publisher. If you want me to be a game designer for you and work out the exact numerical specifics, then you need to send me aggregate data from all archeum drops in the game and give me a paycheck. Then I'll sit down with excel and work out tables, charts, formulas with a detailed GDD on cause and effects on a mass scale based on that data. F'n have the nerve to ask us "how much" to increase it by. Hey here's a start bub, double it and go from there.

All this is a moot point anyway because at this stage in the game it doesn't even matter. The game is being absolutely crushed by the lack of archeum. The seas are dead because trade packs are useless. Archeum is creating a massive bottleneck so crafting resources from resource trader runs are not worth the labor and risk to do. Inflation and gear costs has caused gold trade runs and fishing to be near useless. The whole core of the game is destroyed because you guys are too afraid to act.

You could make it literally rain archeum. Just put 1000 sunlight and moonlight archeum crystals into everyones bag when they log in for all I care. Ya the price of archeum will then be about as low as bait worms. I don't give a crap. At least then we'll see massive movement on the seas doing resource runs. At least then gear won't be out of control in it's cost to make. FFS just do something. If you go a little overboard, what's the absolute worst that will happen? Crafting items might be viable again? Oh the horror!

On top of all this, you didn't even mention any of the other awesome suggestions made to help archeum out. "Meteor" joke and "coin purse drops". That all you got guy? Well the meteor one is a joke and the coin purse drop rate increase would benefit botters in a huge way. So how about a realistic suggestion? How about Archeum Traders for trade pack runs? Instead of turning in packs for charcoal or gold, you could get archeum of your choice per pack.

That way it's not bot-friendly and again reinvigorates the core concept of your game, the ocean and pirating.

FFS these people are why Archeage is becoming a ghost town. F'n blind leading the blind over there. I guess it's too hard to see past all those RNG cash box $$$$$$$$$s.

Pathetic. #hopeless.

felixius
03-02-2015, 07:14 AM
"Passion"? Ya what I saw was condescending BS and no substance.

"Add archeum, WELL HOW MUCH!?" he says. First of all Khrolan, you're the ones that work for the publisher. If you want me to be a game designer for you and work out the exact numerical specifics, then you need to send me aggregate data from all archeum drops in the game and give me a paycheck. Then I'll sit down with excel and work out tables, charts, formulas with a detailed GDD on cause and effects on a mass scale based on that data. F'n have the nerve to ask us "how much" to increase it by. Hey here's a start bub, double it and go from there.

All this is a moot point anyway because at this stage in the game it doesn't even matter. The game is being absolutely crushed by the lack of archeum. The seas are dead because trade packs are useless. Archeum is creating a massive bottleneck so crafting resources from resource trader runs are not worth the labor and risk to do. Inflation and gear costs has caused gold trade runs and fishing to be near useless. The whole core of the game is destroyed because you guys are too afraid to act.

You could make it literally rain archeum. Just put 1000 sunlight and moonlight archeum crystals into everyones bag when they log in for all I care. Ya the price of archeum will then be about as low as bait worms. I don't give a crap. At least then we'll see massive movement on the seas doing resource runs. At least then gear won't be out of control in it's cost to make. FFS just do something. If you go a little overboard, what's the absolute worst that will happen? Crafting items might be viable again? Oh the horror!

On top of all this, you didn't even mention any of the other awesome suggestions made to help archeum out. "Meteor" joke and "coin purse drops". That all you got guy? Well the meteor one is a joke and the coin purse drop rate increase would benefit botters in a huge way. So how about a realistic suggestion? How about Archeum Traders for trade pack runs? Instead of turning in packs for charcoal or gold, you could get archeum of your choice per pack.

That way it's not bot-friendly and again reinvigorates the core concept of your game, the ocean and pirating.

FFS these people are why Archeage is becoming a ghost town. F'n blind leading the blind over there. I guess it's too hard to see past all those RNG cash box $$$$$$$$$s.

Pathetic. #hopeless.

You are absolutely correct. Flooding the market with archeum would resurrect the game.

Pwnocchio
03-02-2015, 09:08 AM
Obsidian is crafted the same way as any other weapon (diffrent materials only) so you regrade Tier 1 as high as you want it then craft t2-t6 and hope it get even higher

I know we'd asked Trion if this were the case. Did they actually answer this question diffinitively?

Pwnocchio
03-02-2015, 09:16 AM
Your arguments are really stupid.... Also, these mythical tree farms beg me to ask: why would anyone plant in the wild anymore? The LP cost to plant and Chop is enourmous...

I remember fairly early on in this game I had a lot of fun flying around with a few mates trying to find massive illegal tree farms so we could steal their lumber. We felt like we were really sticking it to them, denying them all those logs. There were times when the guilds that planted them were present as we chopped down their mature pines... right in front of them... like some crazy lumberjack cuckold.

For whatever reason only their low level character seemed at all upset by what we did.

It's kinda cut now looking back on it.

Rekikyo, you have real hard time keeping your ego in check on the forums. It's hard for some people. But, if you are going to assert that these farms don't exist because nobody would burn the labor to plant [u]and chop[/b] these farms down, while calling the other guy 'stupid'...

Mate, the people getting the T-strucks aren't cutting those other tree's down.

Pwnocchio
03-02-2015, 09:30 AM
Sunpoints are up to 29g after 1 day of Divine Boxes being gone. They were 15g yesterday.

Rekikyo, come on man, you just made a post about market perceptions being large driving factors in the economy, so you know the argument quoted above is bogus.

Mangix
03-02-2015, 09:31 AM
I remember fairly early on in this game I had a lot of fun flying around with a few mates trying to find massive illegal tree farms so we could steal their lumber. We felt like we were really sticking it to them, denying them all those logs. There were times when the guilds that planted them were present as we chopped down their mature pines... right in front of them... like some crazy lumberjack cuckold.

For whatever reason only their low level character seemed at all upset by what we did.

It's kinda cut now looking back on it.

Rekikyo, you have real hard time keeping your ego in check on the forums. It's hard for some people. But, if you are going to assert that these farms don't exist because nobody would burn the labor to plant [u]and chop[/b] these farms down, while calling the other guy 'stupid'...

Mate, the people getting the T-strucks aren't cutting those other tree's down.

thems was the days, when a stack of lumber was worth defending with 15 people.

Pwnocchio
03-02-2015, 09:45 AM
thems was the days, when a stack of lumber was worth defending with 15 people.

Well, yeah, their newb members cared because I think they let the scrubs harvest the lumber. The guild leaders were there to get the T-strucks.

:)

Rekikyo
03-02-2015, 10:56 AM
I remember fairly early on in this game I had a lot of fun flying around with a few mates trying to find massive illegal tree farms so we could steal their lumber. We felt like we were really sticking it to them, denying them all those logs. There were times when the guilds that planted them were present as we chopped down their mature pines... right in front of them... like some crazy lumberjack cuckold.

For whatever reason only their low level character seemed at all upset by what we did.

It's kinda cut now looking back on it.

Rekikyo, you have real hard time keeping your ego in check on the forums. It's hard for some people. But, if you are going to assert that these farms don't exist because nobody would burn the labor to plant [u]and chop[/b] these farms down, while calling the other guy 'stupid'...

Mate, the people getting the T-strucks aren't cutting those other tree's down.

You're taking one topic of discussion to assert my conclusion, where he was wrong on three fronts.

Furthermore, That's just it; Those who risk planting in the wild, who lose their farms, tend to plant less wild farms. I had my farms raided for 2 months straight, so that I never got a single Tstruck until after Auroria came out (well I did get one; but at the time I was sharing the drops with one of the tree pirates that were hunting my farms. He offered to split the drops IF i told him about my farms. If I didn't tell him, he'd take it all. So, I really had the option to either tell him about farms he may never know exists, or to risk he would find them, and I'd be out my LP and seed costs.

But yeah, before Auroria came out, I quite possibly fed my server around 28 Tstrucks.

But you know what? when Worker's comps rose above 30g, I stopped planting wild. Why would you plant wild, incur the 10 LP cost of planting, and then (if you don't want your spots found) have to chop them and take a loss on the logs?

And even if the thieves are not cutting trees, the real effect on the planter is there; They won't made back their investment on Logs, to cover what they planted, so stealing the Tstruck is by itself is STILL going to signal them that planting in the wild is bad. I do know that on occasion people still plant, but the 2000 tree farms are dead. The risk is too high, the maps too known, and the benefit is almost always in the hands of the thief rather than the farmer. The farmer has to incur at least 25 LP and 20s to plant and harvest the trees just to make "something" back off their farm, if Tstrucks are stolen. That's expensive; 1.7g a tree. For what? 39s in return? Why would ANY farmer keep farming, if they do not get the Tstruck?

So yes. Absolutely ignorant. I exist on Ollo, and our farmers grow trees on private farms. Because we never lose those. Public farms draw 20 different people and interest groups to steal them. We KNOW that if we plant in the wild, our trees are gonna get stolen.

And, I believe I said that Market perceptions ARE the driving factor of prices, which would be supported by the observation that in a single day, although the consumption of sunpoints hasn't been dramatic compared to the supply of Sunpoints, the price doubled over night. Hence why I quoted him. He's been arguing that they will not recover in price because the market is flooded, so i observed and cited the current price which blows that assumption out of the water. Sunpoints WILL reach the 50g I suggested, and probably sooner than later.

Myrgatroid
03-02-2015, 10:56 AM
snip

Oh man, that takes me back to my days of going to Snowlion's rest, going to the top of the ridge, glide scanning all of rookborne for illegal farms. Funny how much I miss the simple adventures.

Rekikyo
03-02-2015, 11:04 AM
Oh man, that takes me back to my days of going to Snowlion's rest, going to the top of the ridge, glide scanning all of rookborne for illegal farms. Funny how much I miss the simple adventures.

Further proof the large farms no longer exist, if people are no longer patrolling for them. Is a signal they expect to find nothing, or something not worth their time.

Ophencia
03-02-2015, 01:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpiKVRPHa-0

what 1.7 does in 6 months is irrelevant because there wont be anyone left playing if they don't fix it now.

junweizhu
03-02-2015, 01:11 PM
Further proof the large farms no longer exist, if people are no longer patrolling for them. Is a signal they expect to find nothing, or something not worth their time.

More like people stopped looking for them regardless of whether it's still done or not. Maybe because people started to get obsessed with getting as much gold as possible.

Sawoff
03-02-2015, 01:28 PM
Adjust the rate in which the peace of gear can be upgrade to next lvl and maybe throw in options of using lucky charms

Rekikyo
03-02-2015, 03:52 PM
More like people stopped looking for them regardless of whether it's still done or not. Maybe because people started to get obsessed with getting as much gold as possible.

250g for free is still probably the best money you can make, and as fast as possible. Watching a few trees change for 15-30 minutes, is about as good as it gets, if you are good at sniping the Tstruck.

Name another activity that gives you 250g for free for that amount of time.

The reason people quit looking, was because less people planted. Ollo Rookeborne Ice Mountain tops used to have 500+ tree farms all over the place. Now most times they are vacant. Used to be about 8 100-200 tree farms in Tigerspine at most times. Now, there's maybe 1-2 a week. Used to be about 600-800 trees in hell's swamp out of bounds and 1000 in Silent Forest. Now, Silent is almost always empty, and Hell's Swamp is too. Used to be about 9 farms in the Hasla Mountain tops. Now there's 0, but there is an occasional scout "looking" for farms there, because for awhile I had 4-5 farms going at once and they think I'll return.

It's just far cheaper, far safer, to plant on farms. And gazebos made this even easier. And no one really sees a point to planting 100G worth of trees to maybe get 60g worth of lumber, and tons of labor points gone.

Pwnocchio
03-02-2015, 04:17 PM
Further proof the large farms no longer exist, if people are no longer patrolling for them. Is a signal they expect to find nothing, or something not worth their time.

People stopped patrolling for them when they got a better understanding of the opportunity cost of harvesting logs. The serious guilds farming TS's were too good at having raids present at the logging sites whenever the pines advanced to the next growth stage.

Rekikyo
03-02-2015, 04:28 PM
People stopped patrolling for them when they got a better understanding of the opportunity cost of harvesting logs. The serious guilds farming TS's were too good at having raids present at the logging sites whenever the pines advanced to the next growth stage.

I have never seen a guild have absolute control over a farm, and I do look. And there were FAR MORE single farmers than guild farmers. After all, the small guy is the one willing to waste LP, whereas the big guilds just want to abuse the small guys and take their LP, and know it's a waste of resources for them to plant themselves.

Porks
03-02-2015, 05:13 PM
mmm with such a heavy RNG gating everything, either you saturage archeum or not, result wont be too different.

its all money, XL ♥♥♥♥ blocking, etc etc.

Tammuz
03-02-2015, 05:15 PM
I think a proper solution would to adjust the Archeum trees to produce more shards and crystals instead of dust.
[NOTE] Yes, I do own several tree farms.

you mean like they already did in korea version 1.7?

briliant idea! now why didnt they think of that?

Tammuz
03-02-2015, 05:16 PM
RNG gating is fine, the absolute 0 crafting going on at the moment is not

Kirah
03-13-2015, 05:32 AM
My point was, that players seeking to make profits assign prices based upon what they believe they would be making a profit at. It's not unreasonable to believe the mid level lunarites will be somewhat resistant to change in price, because while right now, the market for Mid level lunarite is premature, because no one can afford to build high end Lunagems the market will reach maturity. People will consume them as fast as they are produced to upgrade their gear beyond tier 1. This will give the sensation that there are shortages, and that demand is extraordinarily high, which will make players resist dropping the price. And, and worst, even if they do let the prices drop, they will not drop them below what they consider a profitable level.

As for moonpoint and sunpoint, your protest is reviewed and denied. Once the Divine boxes are gone, the supply will shrink drastically as people consume 20-30 in one go, trying to make better obsidian weapons and armor. We're not talking just weeks until 1.7.... we're talking several months. When this occurs, we will see farmers post prices they expect to make the randomness worth their while.

Well, I waited for the patch to say: sorry, I told you so. :)

ignitar
03-13-2015, 07:23 AM
I see Khrolan grinding library, not fixing archeum :(

Yaminn
03-13-2015, 09:24 PM
Big Archeum fix coming mid to late April. Details here. (http://www.totalarcheage.com/2015/03/313-livestream-recap.html) Under the Archuem header.