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xusic
04-10-2014, 04:46 PM
Greetings!,
This is more of a question for Trion but, I noticed that the Russian AA version has Energy arrow and Quickshot shoot 4 projectiles per cast (with a global cooldown), instead of 1 per cast (with no global cooldown), as to minimize the effect of ping on the damage output of these spells. For those unaware of the effects of ping on skills, having a higher ping results in a longer delay between casting spells. From what I've seen in Alpha Livestreams, Trion has not changed these spells as Mail.ru has. As people's ping within NA ranges from 15-150ms I forsee this being a problem that will make or break people who choose to incorporate these spells into their build. Is Trion aware of this issue and are they considering changing these skills as Mail.ru has?

I'm not sure if Instantaneous Impact was changed by mail.ru but it is an example of another skill that is heavily effected by ping.

GangstaSora
04-10-2014, 05:49 PM
I'm not sure why no one else has responded to this. This problem is game changing and trion would do well not to ignore it.

Stroh
04-10-2014, 06:05 PM
I can't say for sure, but I doubt ping has a big impact on anything in the game, as it never really has in any other MMO.

That's not to say having a low ping isn't an advantage, but the difference between 10ms and 50ms is pretty negligible. If you can play a FPS with that ping, a MMO is really not a problem. Not to mention, pre-casting exists in most MMOs (not sure how it works in ArcheAge) which allows another route to ignore ping.


Though, if it exists in the Russian version, it's pretty easy for them to carry over the changes if desired. Might just not be high-up on their list of things to bring over when they're trying to get content tested and released A.S.A.P.

Toph
04-10-2014, 06:27 PM
Trion made the "spam" attacks Hold on attack so your ping has almost no effect on the casting. The initial click will be the only part your ms/ping will effect.

Bakemono
04-10-2014, 06:38 PM
I can't say for sure, but I doubt ping has a big impact on anything in the game, as it never really has in any other MMO.

That's not to say having a low ping isn't an advantage, but the difference between 10ms and 50ms is pretty negligible. If you can play a FPS with that ping, a MMO is really not a problem. Not to mention, pre-casting exists in most MMOs (not sure how it works in ArcheAge) which allows another route to ignore ping.


Though, if it exists in the Russian version, it's pretty easy for them to carry over the changes if desired. Might just not be high-up on their list of things to bring over when they're trying to get content tested and released A.S.A.P.

I don't think you should post in this thread anymore. The difference between 10ms and 50ms is worlds apart, WORLDS!

Imagine an archer with 10ms spamming quick shot Vs. an archer with 50ms spamming quick shot.

Stroh
04-10-2014, 07:40 PM
I don't think you should post in this thread anymore. [/B]

First off, no need to be rude...



The difference between 10ms and 50ms is worlds apart, WORLDS!

Imagine an archer with 10ms spamming quick shot Vs. an archer with 50ms spamming quick shot.

Do you know what "ms" even stands for? If you think 40ms is a big difference in a MMO you need to learn what an "exaggeration" is. Especially when you "pre-load" your skills by casting when one is still in the process of being cast. This eliminates any latency-related delays between spell casts.

Even without that, if a spell had a 2s casting time, and your fight lasts 20 seconds (decently long in a MMO outside of bosses), then you'd be missing out on maybe 1 cast of your spell with that 40ms delay in between casts. It's simple math.

Bakemono
04-10-2014, 08:41 PM
First off, no need to be rude...




Do you know what "ms" even stands for? If you think 40ms is a big difference in a MMO you need to learn what an "exaggeration" is. Especially when you "pre-load" your skills by casting when one is still in the process of being cast. This eliminates any latency-related delays between spell casts.

Even without that, if a spell had a 2s casting time, and your fight lasts 20 seconds (decently long in a MMO outside of bosses), then you'd be missing out on maybe 1 cast of your spell with that 40ms delay in between casts. It's simple math.


Online Games are highly ping dependent. Your argument is still invalid. Every game I played, Ping was always a factor, BE IT Tera, GW2, Aion, Dragon Prophet, Star Wars, Etc. That was my point. And you don't pre-load skills in Archeage. Trust me, if you had 50ms vs someone with 10ms, you'd feel the burn.


EDIT: Ping is directly affected by server locations and your personal location (or w/e you login at). Ping is the delay between when you press a skill and when your character responds. For high level gamers, the difference between 10ms and 50ms is not only frightening, but the one with the lowest ping always has the upper hand. Now you can even take it further and say someone with 50ms vs someone with 100ms, see where im going? Ping is not only a factor for serious players, but it sets the tone for players who play ping dependent classes (melee for example). Just stop saying ping is not a factor, and i'll stop posting in this thread.

DOUBLE EDIT: Also that math part -_-. There are 1000 milliseconds in 1 second. So, you take 40/1000 = 0.04. Now multiply 0.04 by 20; you get 0.8 total loss seconds. When ping it'ss that low is very marginal, but when you do the math for 10ms; it's 0.2. The delay is so minimal with 10 seconds, it'll be like the archer is firing a machine gun at'ya. Sorry for condescending tone, but I always speak like this.

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/biz/image/1394/49/1394493956221.gif

Bakemono
04-10-2014, 08:58 PM
Trion made the "spam" attacks Hold on attack so your ping has almost no effect on the casting. The initial click will be the only part your ms/ping will effect.

Ping still affects response, after the initial click..

Kuro1n
04-10-2014, 09:05 PM
First off, no need to be rude...




Do you know what "ms" even stands for? If you think 40ms is a big difference in a MMO you need to learn what an "exaggeration" is. Especially when you "pre-load" your skills by casting when one is still in the process of being cast. This eliminates any latency-related delays between spell casts.

Even without that, if a spell had a 2s casting time, and your fight lasts 20 seconds (decently long in a MMO outside of bosses), then you'd be missing out on maybe 1 cast of your spell with that 40ms delay in between casts. It's simple math.

No, you need to get a ♥♥♥♥ing clue man, the ms makes a huge difference in AA. Dont ♥♥♥♥talk if you have no idea what it's about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BESGAjYOfk

xusic
04-10-2014, 10:28 PM
Trion made the "spam" attacks Hold on attack so your ping has almost no effect on the casting. The initial click will be the only part your ms/ping will effect.

Thanks for the response! I'm glad that Trion has already given this consideration, gives me faith in them going forward.

22rus
04-10-2014, 11:04 PM
in the Russian ArcheAge version, skills Blades of death and Passion of the avenger (I don't know as they are called in euro the version) http://aa.mail.ru/calculator#3_9:14810_18125_14835 don't depend on a ping, do some shots instead of 1. These changes were pleasant to players. Itself I play classes at which main attack it "Death blades" and I don't test inconveniences from global cooldown. I hope in your version these skills won't depend on a ping, my ping 53, without changes of work of skills it wouldn't be possible to me to play the class.

I apologize for the autotranslation

very poor translation(((

Elrodeus
04-10-2014, 11:13 PM
No, you need to get a ♥♥♥♥ing clue man, the ms makes a huge difference in AA. Dont ♥♥♥♥talk if you have no idea what it's about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BESGAjYOfk


Yea I remember that video. I crapped bricks. Hopefully Trion will do something to fix this to keep it on a level playing field. Those "machine gun" skills definitely need to be reworked or have a global added to them. I wasn't aware that the Russian version changed it to fire a high volume automatically before a global cooldown. I think that's a smart idea to fix the problem and perhaps that's the answer going forward.

22rus
04-10-2014, 11:24 PM
Yea I remember that video. I crapped bricks. Hopefully Trion will do something to fix this to keep it on a level playing field. Those "machine gun" skills definitely need to be reworked or have a global added to them. I wasn't aware that the Russian version changed it to fire a high volume automatically before a global cooldown. I think that's a smart idea to fix the problem and perhaps that's the answer going forward.

now it works so http://mover.uz/watch/8NDFfopj/ in ruArcheAge

Vray
04-11-2014, 03:15 AM
Trion made the "spam" attacks Hold on attack so your ping has almost no effect on the casting. The initial click will be the only part your ms/ping will effect.

Any official resource for this?

juniormix
04-30-2014, 02:39 AM
Hello,

I just arrived in the Alpha server and I noticed a HUGE difference on the Energy arrow skill.

I play the RU server with a 280ms ping (insanely huge), and when I use Energy arrow there, I fire 4 shots, while in the NA version (with a 170- ping) I only shoot once. This made me give up on the 'school', since the best skill turned into the worst.

Changing the way the skill fires (3-4 at time), would reduce the ping effect.

DeMordey
04-30-2014, 03:07 AM
Yes, the ping affects the skills as it was already proven. Now let's hope Trion can fix it like the RU version did.

Mustafonte
04-30-2014, 05:23 AM
blackflip +fireballs need nice ping
i only can do 2 fb in ru(300 ping) =/

Mustafonte
04-30-2014, 05:25 AM
in spawn energy arrow or quickarrow i think 4 better then one , but auto "spawn"atk can fix it

rodde
04-30-2014, 07:59 AM
ineed ping kills archers.

Kragor
04-30-2014, 10:35 AM
Ping still affects response, after the initial click..

I play with 120-140 ms and i notice a huge diference when i cast "Mana Stars" (Energy Arrow) from when someone else with 40ms casts it.

This need to be fixed or some classes are going to be terrible for a lot of people.

Zidanic
04-30-2014, 06:09 PM
Trion made the "spam" attacks Hold on attack so your ping has almost no effect on the casting. The initial click will be the only part your ms/ping will effect.

Thats great to hear, thanks man.

Bakemono
04-30-2014, 06:32 PM
Ping still affects the spam rate, after the initial click. Trion nicely made it so you can just hold the button down, instead of spam clicking it.

50 ms
http://thumbs.newschoolers.com/index.php?src=http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2o6kwT6c81qcsknu.gif&size=400x1000


Vs.

10ms

http://i.minus.com/iqlFAoovykq0q.gif

xusic
04-30-2014, 06:53 PM
"My apologies for this not getting a reply earlier -- we have requested changes to 'fast skills' to normalize damage rather than leaving them ping-dependent, as the quality of ping in our regions has a huge potential range. "

Taken from Amary's post in the alpha forum regarding ping dependent skills

Whiskiz
05-01-2014, 03:32 AM
haha its funny, everyone worried about the whole ping making attacks slower thing apparently only for archers/range skills. Try being melee and combo's not going through and completely missing attacks altogether from the delay.

A simple leap to target for example, most of the time by the time it reads your request and you leap and land where the enemy was when the request was first read, the person has already moved away, missing the hit, the damage and so the potential for any combo from it as well.

Go to leap then attack for a knockdown, you land a few meters away, 0 sticking potential, no damage, no knockdown if you do manage to catch up and land that hit afterward since the first part of the combo didn't land (the leap) And to top it off? On the rare occasions ♥♥♥♥ does connect, it then has to pass rolls for evasion, dodges, parries, blocks etc to connect, being physical and/or melee attacks.

Funniest when your running shadow play - battle rage - archery and your only form of CC is three (melee) knockdowns (mainly since this games pvp is centered around CC and disabling your target before they disable you before dealing damage, which in itself is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ed and disappointing)

But im sorry, carry on whinging about a few slower attacks as a ranger.

xusic
05-01-2014, 08:25 AM
haha its funny, everyone worried about the whole ping making attacks slower thing apparently only for archers/range skills. Try being melee and combo's not going through and completely missing attacks altogether from the delay.

A simple leap to target for example, most of the time by the time it reads your request and you leap and land where the enemy was when the request was first read, the person has already moved away, missing the hit, the damage and so the potential for any combo from it as well.

Go to leap then attack for a knockdown, you land a few meters away, 0 sticking potential, no damage, no knockdown if you do manage to catch up and land that hit afterward since the first part of the combo didn't land (the leap) And to top it off? On the rare occasions ♥♥♥♥ does connect, it then has to pass rolls for evasion, dodges, parries, blocks etc to connect, being physical and/or melee attacks.

Funniest when your running shadow play - battle rage - archery and your only form of CC is three (melee) knockdowns (mainly since this games pvp is centered around CC and disabling your target before they disable you before dealing damage, which in itself is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ed and disappointing)

But im sorry, carry on whinging about a few slower attacks as a ranger.

I know where you're coming from. but they're 2 different problems and there isn't a simple solution for the melee one.

LlexX
05-01-2014, 08:38 AM
This was a huge problem in Russia as well, and after a few petitions (http://archeagesource.com/topic/2488-petition-сhange-the-mechanics-of-the-use-of-skills-not-to-be-so-much-ping-dependent) XLGames changed how the machinegun skills work in the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhCOOYU_7kM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BESGAjYOfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY_4wOdFPrU

Here is a quote about how the ping effected these type of skills:

We all know that in the game ArcheAge people not to panic, because countries such as Korea, China is not very large in its territory, is not questioned in changing the mechanics of the skill. Many of distant countries or large themselves played the Korean servers ArcheAge, as well as on Russian, and saw themselves problem in using skills such as: quickshot, energyarrow, continuos recovery and others. And thereby please give their use, at least in Russia and later in the USA to a more equal. Because the difference, for example, between pings in 1-5 and ping 120-150 to use skill quickshot is about 75% 18 shots for 10 seconds or 72 shot for the same 10 seconds without releasing the button use skill
We hope on understanding of the players.

1-5 ms ping = 72 arrows shot for 10 seconds
120-150 ms ping = 18 arrows shots for 10 seconds

Scapes confirmed that they are going to change the current system as well, probably to the Russian one.

Grumeck
05-01-2014, 01:29 PM
This was a huge problem in Russia as well, and after a few petitions (http://archeagesource.com/topic/2488-petition-сhange-the-mechanics-of-the-use-of-skills-not-to-be-so-much-ping-dependent) XLGames changed how the machinegun skills work in the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhCOOYU_7kM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BESGAjYOfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY_4wOdFPrU

Here is a quote about how the ping effected these type of skills:



Scapes confirmed that they are going to change the current system as well, probably to the Russian one.

Agree, we have the big problem here, 200 - 250ms , cant play AA , Trion and XLgames need fix it !

WarmZie
05-12-2014, 02:22 AM
any news on this?