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View Full Version : Dread Prophecies Spotlight: Submarines



Celestrata Bloodsong
07-16-2015, 12:55 PM
Time marches onward in Erenor, and the machinists of war welcome an incredible innovation to the winding waterways of the world: submarines. Intrepid adventurers will dive to untold depths and experience Dahuta’s deep seas with fresh eyes in these spectacular new submersibles...

Read more about the submarines coming to ArcheAge (http://www.trionworlds.com/archeage/en/2015/07/16/dread-prophecies-spotlight-submarines/), and make sure to discuss your thoughts in the thread below!

Expendable
07-16-2015, 01:38 PM
So we get a sub that caps out at 6.6 m/s with the best gear equipped. Does anyone at XLGames realize that this is slower than a donkey in the water?

Musei
07-16-2015, 02:40 PM
5.5 m/s? No thanks. Yet another great item nerfed into uselessness under the guise of normalization.

Maraboo
07-16-2015, 02:41 PM
"guaranteed to be more effective than a donkey"

I think the big question everyone is asking is whether there is any value getting a submarine.

This video was made after the 1.2 nerfs in Alpha and highlights how all modes of water transportation, including swimming, are faster than submarines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_PEGvCFEtY

MicDeath
07-16-2015, 03:28 PM
"guaranteed to be more effective than a donkey"

I think the big question everyone is asking is whether there is any value getting a submarine.

This video was made after the 1.2 nerfs in Alpha and highlights how all modes of water transportation, including swimming, are faster than submarines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_PEGvCFEtY

I just don't see how they will be more effective than a donkey. My donkey can get ~12m/s with a trade pack, ~15m/s if I can manage to get the black cat glitch to actually work (+30% move speed instead of 5% on the donkey)

With clippers being able to just coast it at 15m/s to ~18m/s (before the speed boost) the old hunting with subs will no longer be viable. Hell, it is getting to a point where galleons are starting to out run my 15m/s clipper that is also using a unique speed booster.

Garick
07-16-2015, 04:30 PM
Cyanfin = Same as Sub?

5.5 base? really? you couldn't have it be around 10 so it was at least similar to a clipper in base speed? besides IF it is a mount then it WILL be affected by weight of the world debuff which means it will drop to a bare crawl.

sbc
07-16-2015, 04:39 PM
when i first heard about the submarine, i thought of those 1-2 man submarines that you can buy in the real world. those small things they use on side of research ships or recovery....... Nope

I was hoping for something quick like eco fueled sub with headlights able to light up the floor of the ocean for treasure hunting.........

another disappointment.

Tousseau
07-16-2015, 04:51 PM
The main pro that I can see with the sub is the ability to effectively remain on the sea floor for extended amounts of time...
Are they observable with ships sonar while so submerged?

I'm honestly trying to see where the advantages of the subs are at, in order to have such a low movement rate...

Mickyan
07-16-2015, 04:51 PM
guaranteed to be more effective than a donkey
This is honestly pretty insulting because it's just barely true for a donkey not wearing legguards and assuming you're not carrying a tradepack. All for just a thousand gold and 250 gilda stars.
I am extremely disappointed by this and all this nonsense marketing talk "spotlight" just adds insult to injury.

Furthermore the above page states they have a base speed of 5.5, but in the livestream it was shown that that's actually 5.0, so we're off to a good start already.
I sincerely hope you'll be listening to feedback.

Divine Gift
07-16-2015, 05:25 PM
Trion loves hyping up garbage.... They've been doing it since before launch...

Theblight
07-16-2015, 06:19 PM
I mean, I'm getting one...but the hype is dead for it. I see no practical use for a submarine other than for getting pearls and treasure hunting without using a dahuta's. I can swim faster than this thing....considerably faster than it.

http://i.imgur.com/PHvZXQk.jpg

Any comment on why it didn't get changed to be better?

Torvold
07-16-2015, 07:28 PM
Ok, an old west politician gives a speech on an indian reservation. He gives this speech and at the first break the crowd goes crazy shouting 'umpa! umpa! umpa!' He gets into it... the crowd is going wild interupting him with cheers over and over again...

Finally the politician winds down and makes his way off stage and towards his wagon with a pleased grin on his face. His planner runs up and the politician exclaims, 'they loved me!' The planners nods, listening as he walked beside the politician... suddenly he interupts the politician's joyful exclamations... he points at a large cowpie and says, 'careful sir, dont step in the umpa.'

Well, here we are again as the umpa rains down from trion and they call it mana from heaven.

This was something I was really looking forward to and I wont even get it... in fact, this was one of the big reasons I stuck with AA, but I am really gonna have to think before renewing anything next month. Personally, this might be the last straw for me.

Bruttle
07-16-2015, 07:56 PM
You know, I am simply floored by things like this. This ranks up there with ridiculously stupid commercials. You know the ones, the commercials that are just sad and pathetic. They are tasteless, bland, stupid, and none of it intentional. Just plain and simply a work of apathy and employing a staggering amount of ignorance. You have to wonder how many people saw that commercial before it went live and gave it a green light. How many hands did it pass though. I'm quite sure quite a few people had their hand in it and yet not a single one raised their hand and said "you know, this is kinda dumb. maybe we shouldn't pay to put this on the air."

The submarines are kinda like that. How many people worked on it's reintroduction. How many people were involved with "balancing" it for re-release. How many people used it during internal testing. How many people looked at the stats of the new version of the sub. Yet out of all these people, here we are. Out of all those people, nobody said "hey, you know you can outrun this thing with swimming?" Nobody said, "dude, my donkey can swim faster than this thing. Nobody thought, "I think we need to bump it up a bit more cause it is completely without a purpose right now."

The decisions lately coming out of Trion/XL have been shockingly bad lately. That's not to say that they haven't made really bad decisions in the past. They just seem to be raining down poor planning and demonstrating a complete lack of logic and reason. Honestly, I don't know what else to say. This is just... ridiculous...

Theblight
07-17-2015, 12:03 AM
You know, I am simply floored by things like this. This ranks up there with ridiculously stupid commercials. You know the ones, the commercials that are just sad and pathetic. They are tasteless, bland, stupid, and none of it intentional. Just plain and simply a work of apathy and employing a staggering amount of ignorance. You have to wonder how many people saw that commercial before it went live and gave it a green light. How many hands did it pass though. I'm quite sure quite a few people had their hand in it and yet not a single one raised their hand and said "you know, this is kinda dumb. maybe we shouldn't pay to put this on the air."

The submarines are kinda like that. How many people worked on it's reintroduction. How many people were involved with "balancing" it for re-release. How many people used it during internal testing. How many people looked at the stats of the new version of the sub. Yet out of all these people, here we are. Out of all those people, nobody said "hey, you know you can outrun this thing with swimming?" Nobody said, "dude, my donkey can swim faster than this thing. Nobody thought, "I think we need to bump it up a bit more cause it is completely without a purpose right now."

The decisions lately coming out of Trion/XL have been shockingly bad lately. That's not to say that they haven't made really bad decisions in the past. They just seem to be raining down poor planning and demonstrating a complete lack of logic and reason. Honestly, I don't know what else to say. This is just... ridiculous...

As much as I hate to say it...I agree. It's taken a lot but I'm starting to lose some serious faith in Trion here.

Bullshihtzu
07-17-2015, 12:57 AM
Yep was looking forward to subs but not any more , and this from the people that are bring us server mergers and saying trust us LOL .
Why do I get the feeling they will sell us something in the cash shop to improve the speed .
pity

Garick
07-17-2015, 02:45 AM
it took them this long to give us the same subs as they had in 1.1 failpatch? what was with the "Rebalancing." if you just gave us the same crap as we had in EA 1.1?

CalliCat
07-17-2015, 03:30 AM
aww cmon guys they're doing their best don't bash poor trion!

Taldun
07-17-2015, 03:45 AM
Too bad that Submarines are nerfed, like the Tanks.
Now they are only a Prestige project....

darkye
07-17-2015, 05:19 AM
When I saw that the submarine finally come, I was glad a lot.
When I saw the speed, I fell to the floor laughing.
Whose bright idea was it to put that speed?
As you may swim or donkey can go faster? , I can say that cars can go under the sea at high speeds.
You are still time to change this, please, you will do the ridiculous so putting submarines.
I expected the submarine since launch and I have taken away the desire to have it.
You give me more reason to leave the game.
I feel sorry for a great game that ♥♥♥♥ing madness.
Sorry for my bad English

SakuraCalleil
07-17-2015, 06:01 AM
Please make these usable.
8 or 9 m/s (maxed with buffs) seems like a more reasonable amount for the investment.

ignitar
07-17-2015, 07:09 AM
"guaranteed to be more effective than a donkey"

I think the big question everyone is asking is whether there is any value getting a submarine.

This video was made after the 1.2 nerfs in Alpha and highlights how all modes of water transportation, including swimming, are faster than submarines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_PEGvCFEtY

I cringe every time I watch that video. D:

felixius
07-17-2015, 07:47 AM
You know, I am simply floored by things like this. This ranks up there with ridiculously stupid commercials. You know the ones, the commercials that are just sad and pathetic. They are tasteless, bland, stupid, and none of it intentional. Just plain and simply a work of apathy and employing a staggering amount of ignorance. You have to wonder how many people saw that commercial before it went live and gave it a green light. How many hands did it pass though. I'm quite sure quite a few people had their hand in it and yet not a single one raised their hand and said "you know, this is kinda dumb. maybe we shouldn't pay to put this on the air."

The submarines are kinda like that. How many people worked on it's reintroduction. How many people were involved with "balancing" it for re-release. How many people used it during internal testing. How many people looked at the stats of the new version of the sub. Yet out of all these people, here we are. Out of all those people, nobody said "hey, you know you can outrun this thing with swimming?" Nobody said, "dude, my donkey can swim faster than this thing. Nobody thought, "I think we need to bump it up a bit more cause it is completely without a purpose right now."

The decisions lately coming out of Trion/XL have been shockingly bad lately. That's not to say that they haven't made really bad decisions in the past. They just seem to be raining down poor planning and demonstrating a complete lack of logic and reason. Honestly, I don't know what else to say. This is just... ridiculous...

+1, then they say with a straight face "Guaranteed to go faster than a donkey!" at the end of that article. It's insulting that Trion/XL think we don't know how fast we currently swim/donkey.

Baell
07-17-2015, 07:50 AM
As the very first thing I knew I was going to invest in when I joined this game, I will be making a submarine regardless. However I am very disappointed in Trion following this information. I have watched every live stream waiting on news for submarines following their removal at the start due to them being nerfed like hell. I was hoping that when they were finally reintroduced, after about 6-7 months of re-balancing they would be worth the wait.
As almost everyone above me has mentioned, the claim on the 'spotlight' page of: 'The Steamfish are easy to craft, offer new exploration and travel opportunities, and they’re guaranteed to be more effective than a donkey when it comes to underwater travel.' Is totally incorrect, the base move speed of the submarine being only 5.5m/s, when my current Carrot Wings (who cost me nothing and isn't even wearing the best leg gear or saddle) has a base move speed of 5.9m/s in the water. Not to mention the ability to use the carrot skill while holding a pack, using songcraft and wearing swim speed gear which brings it up to a constant 15-15.6m/s. As my pack of choice is the underwater breathing device which is in my bag, can you really assure me that this submarine will be superior to my donkey with 10 minutes of breathing time and 15m/s move speed?
I had faith in Trion that they would rectify the nerfs originally placed on the submarine, not to make them as over powered as they were at the very start, but at least to bring them up to a standard that would make them more appealing for treasure hunting than my free donkey. Personally I wouldn't even care if they had no PvP function what so ever and were just able to make me move faster under the water with a constant air supply and a method of lighting up the sea floor. From what I have seen so far it would appear that I had a little too much faith in these 6-7 months of re-balancing and the originally nerfed submarines are back to stay. You could have at least given it a decent move speed to compare to the new ships maybe a base of about 10m/s? making it slower than every boat, but not as slow as it currently is. Please don't ignore every single post in reply to this, we have been waiting nearly 7 months already for these subs, i can wait a week or 2 more for you to make them worth my time and money.

Sarat00ga
07-17-2015, 09:42 AM
A military sub (this one has torpedoes so it is essentially this) is supposed to silently STALK shipping.....and eventually make a move when the time is right and Launch their fish at their target.

Trion's sub seems unlikely to stalk anything faster than a rowboat or barrel.

Disappointing.

EnderX
07-17-2015, 10:02 AM
You know, I am simply floored by things like this. This ranks up there with ridiculously stupid commercials. You know the ones, the commercials that are just sad and pathetic. They are tasteless, bland, stupid, and none of it intentional. Just plain and simply a work of apathy and employing a staggering amount of ignorance. You have to wonder how many people saw that commercial before it went live and gave it a green light. How many hands did it pass though. I'm quite sure quite a few people had their hand in it and yet not a single one raised their hand and said "you know, this is kinda dumb. maybe we shouldn't pay to put this on the air."

The submarines are kinda like that. How many people worked on it's reintroduction. How many people were involved with "balancing" it for re-release. How many people used it during internal testing. How many people looked at the stats of the new version of the sub. Yet out of all these people, here we are. Out of all those people, nobody said "hey, you know you can outrun this thing with swimming?" Nobody said, "dude, my donkey can swim faster than this thing. Nobody thought, "I think we need to bump it up a bit more cause it is completely without a purpose right now."

The decisions lately coming out of Trion/XL have been shockingly bad lately. That's not to say that they haven't made really bad decisions in the past. They just seem to be raining down poor planning and demonstrating a complete lack of logic and reason. Honestly, I don't know what else to say. This is just... ridiculous...

LOL, yah this is what I thought.

Baell
07-17-2015, 10:25 AM
I'm just wondering, as i never played alpha/beta Archeage so never saw the very first submarines. With the new naval combat system where boats are able to become more tanky and faster, would the original 'pre-nerf' submarines really be so overpowered in the current game? When galleons have mythic cannons which can really easily blow up nearly any ship, does it matter that a submarine has a slightly strong torpedo? considering all you have to do is send 1 dps off your boat to kill the rider or the sub and it is dealt with.

Wouldn't it just be better to re-introduce the old submarines the way they were meant to be?

Elgen
07-17-2015, 10:40 AM
Sub's are considered pets like donkeys or dolphins if you know what your doing you can get any of them well above 13+ ms. There has been more then a few threads that have spoon fed people with no clue how to do it.

Focslain
07-17-2015, 11:37 AM
So it has a base speed of 5.5 m/s, wonder how much the upgrades add to speed.

Other questions:

Does Captian's Intuitation negate the air cannon's ability?

Also seeing this I understand why you can only attack red ships. So Pirates just got a new weapon for hunting ships.

And is this red only effect a precursor to the GvG option coming in 2.0 (ie does the opposing guild show up as red or just perma-purple?)

Theblight
07-17-2015, 02:30 PM
http://i.gyazo.com/9ae5b10a47b0ce4f1b29fd9637a79f71.png

Here's our promise. Get on PTS and let's give them some nice feedback.

arby
07-17-2015, 03:24 PM
What a joke. I can see I won't be putting my swim fins, helmet and breathing pack away any time soon. Some poor dude wasted a whole morning on these things, he could have been fixing bugs... at least that would have been useful.


Also, if it's considered a mount, not a ship... how much vita seed does it need to grow?


GHEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Talon65
07-18-2015, 09:16 AM
You asked for feedback - so here is mine... the speed of submarines needs looking at/adjusted ASAP - do not let this issue fester for too long... seize the opportunity to help your reputation with your player base....

anthalanitis
07-18-2015, 12:52 PM
I think its funny that they think we all can make one of these easy, lol 8 thunder struct trees, dam that will take me a year to get, the event will be long gone. Trion get a clue about your game, does any of the developers even play the game?

anthalanitis
07-18-2015, 12:57 PM
do you realize how hard it is going to be to get the materials to make this, a thunder struct tree cost on average 500g ea this will drive the prices way up. To get 8? will take most of the people in the game a year, so this is a failure even before it comes out.

Sobekeus
07-18-2015, 04:49 PM
As far as I'm concerned, if the submarine isn't at least the underwater equivalent of a clipper, it isn't worth the patch.

arby
07-19-2015, 12:14 AM
As far as I'm concerned, if the submarine isn't at least the underwater equivalent of a clipper, it isn't worth the patch.

http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/18/37/84/48/like10.jpg

Alaryl
07-19-2015, 10:37 AM
It's just a hype!

Leto
07-21-2015, 06:45 AM
It's two thunderstruck trees not 8 for the solid shaft. No more trees are needed for the rest of the sub

workaholico
07-21-2015, 08:34 AM
Are you kidding, don't you get? THEY ARE GOING TO NERF THE DONKEY IN WATER, i see everyone saying "donkeys are better than submarines by far" but DONKEYS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD SWIMMERS FROM THE START (neither fly, but this can pass as this is a donkeysus), so, forget going to war in a donkey's back and start thinking about Pegasus' because there is noway that this no-sense of donkeys being faster than full equiped boats continue....


(or i can be wrong and Trion be as no-sense as everyone says and we have this ♥♥♥♥ty submarines....)

Xervia
07-21-2015, 10:41 PM
one thing im also concered about is the sonar skill/gear. will it be useless or usefull? because if it only has 100m range as it did after the nerf you can see further then that. I think u can see boats at 200m range if your draw distance is maxed.

So a question i have is will they fix the sonar or will it be useless?

drudge
07-22-2015, 10:00 AM
ArcheAge is the only major mmo that has water combat as part of the normal land combat. It is one of the big reason I am still playing the game. SoG is a highlight of my day. The coming of an effective sub was greatly anticipated. WHAT A JOKE !!!!

Archeage had a chance to save it's game and blew it big time.

Jaradis
07-22-2015, 02:49 PM
The subs are an insult and a fing joke. Considering how beefed up all the other ships are, to put in this old alpha nerfed piece of ♥♥♥♥ after months of promising they'd rework them, only to do nothing but make the ♥♥♥♥ cost gilda instead of honor/vocation... You guys could have one of the best games out there if you weren't doing such incredibly STUPID ♥♥♥♥ such as this or all the other normalization ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you have done.

Bullshihtzu
07-22-2015, 10:45 PM
Yep was looking forward to subs but not any more , and this from the people that are bring us server mergers and saying trust us LOL .
Why do I get the feeling they will sell us something in the cash shop to improve the speed .
pity
And what do we see in the cash shop.... it couldn't be "something to improve speed" could it , lol Trion is getting so predictable its a joke .

Kizuno
07-23-2015, 03:21 AM
They said it was faster than a donkey, and that was a lie... Its slower than the own swimming.

Brybry
07-23-2015, 06:45 AM
I did Lapis Steamfish Submarine

swimming speed 5.5m/s
swimming speed of trade pack 2.8m/s

pity money for this ♥♥♥♥

Shiverwind
07-23-2015, 07:48 PM
So, will get the free crappy mount and move on. add it to our collection lol

noddy2
07-26-2015, 04:54 AM
I'm curious on how Dear Publisher will deliver on the statement that the sub is "guaranteed to be more effective than a donkey when it comes to underwater travel"?

http://www.trionworlds.com/archeage/en/2015/07/16/dread-prophecies-spotlight-submarines/

11561 last paragraph.

Chris32783
07-26-2015, 06:27 AM
The "upgraded parts to craft newer tailfin in dahuta do not exist I ran it 17 times last night everyone had triple loot potions + halcy buff. nada"
So for the love of god make the dang tailfin part craftable or something you know somethings wrong when there is 0 in any AH I have checked on multiple servers us and Eu wise

mrsquishynut
07-26-2015, 07:24 AM
hey people really want this. lets hold off on putting it out. ok we will wait until 90 percent of people are gone. how will we make money that way? oh we will just add pieces of it to the cash shop. ya thats a great idea ♥♥♥♥ these people!

darkye
07-26-2015, 05:52 PM
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img909/6489/qQnxUA.jpg
this is the real submarine and is free, no need to buy anything Store
because even it follows the speed of the submarine ♥♥♥♥
if I put a picture of the car with the maximum speed under water that you will think ??

Zefram
07-29-2015, 11:44 AM
People love what this game could be, we have dumped a lot of money into your pockets to see it happen, and you still don’t hear us.

You normalize things to death, the RNG upgrade chances stink, the material costs for most upgrades are through the roof. You have over done ships and stuff doesn't work, Glider upgrade costs are to high, success chances to low, and you clip our wings which costs us even more. Subs can't out run donkeys, you castrated Pegasus with a 1 minute re-flight timer and we haven't even discussed our land that will be lost in the upcoming server merges.

I could go on but why, Your Not Listening !

thinice
07-30-2015, 09:49 AM
I guess the people that are jumping down Trions throat for this didn't watch last weeks livestream where they agreed it was too slow and before it was put live made their concerns known to XL. As for Trion being "predictable" about the cash shop...you get a cookie for knowing that a company needs to make money to keep a game running. Um the cookie is in the cash shop though soooo if you really want it...

Gramms
07-30-2015, 10:41 AM
Is always xl
.. Xl ... Xl .... Sou why xl dont published this without trino ?

Roark24601
08-02-2015, 09:38 AM
I guess the people that are jumping down Trions throat for this didn't watch last weeks livestream where they agreed it was too slow and before it was put live made their concerns known to XL. As for Trion being "predictable" about the cash shop...you get a cookie for knowing that a company needs to make money to keep a game running. Um the cookie is in the cash shop though soooo if you really want it...

That wasn't exactly what they said. Their way of managing XL is to raise a concern softly then wait for the players to lose their minds before they return a second time to say it is a major issue.

The subs shouldn't have been released in this state.

I'm going to seek permission from Trion to add a mod that makes my donkey look like a submarine so I can avoid losing immersion when I RP.

mrsquishynut
08-03-2015, 06:10 PM
they have known it was slow since beta. its a major issue only when the cash shop takes a hit

Kathran
08-04-2015, 01:34 PM
I'm sorry to say that I do not like them. I was so excited that submarines were being added, but now that I see what they are, I don't care for them. Maybe adding armor to dolphins would have been better. I don't need another thing taking a precious inventory spot if it doesn't do something amazing that my other stuff doesn't already do. Maybe for new players that don't have the other stuff they will be worth it

Reithan
08-04-2015, 02:47 PM
I'm sorry to say that I do not like them. I was so excited that submarines were being added, but now that I see what they are, I don't care for them. Maybe adding armor to dolphins would have been better. I don't need another thing taking a precious inventory spot if it doesn't do something amazing that my other stuff doesn't already do. Maybe for new players that don't have the other stuff they will be worth it

Pretty much. I just start a month ago, so I have no dolphin or carrot dash, that's my only possible justification to get even the copper event sub, and even then I'm considering buying the furniture with the tokens instead, as at least I could sell that for money...the sub is bound.

Polrena
08-05-2015, 12:10 PM
I keep trying to figure out why any player would expect a submarine to be a speedy, surface skimming water craft- I see so many comparisons to donkeys.

Have any of you seen or been on a real sub? Particularly, a non-nuclear sub? They're not exactly built for speed; that's not their purpose. They're built to keep you under water. So why is everyone so upset that a surface craft like a clipper- which IS built for speed, is faster?

I don't think the word "submarine" means what you think it means.

JerryBoyle
08-05-2015, 12:20 PM
I keep trying to figure out why any player would expect a submarine to be a speedy, surface skimming water craft- I see so many comparisons to donkeys.

Have any of you seen or been on a real sub? Particularly, a non-nuclear sub? They're not exactly built for speed; that's not their purpose. They're built to keep you under water. So why is everyone so upset that a surface craft like a clipper- which IS built for speed, is faster?

I don't think the word "submarine" means what you think it means.
I think using real life comparisions to a fictional robotic fish are beyond dumb, especially when the game has magic and other oddities. Regardless if the sub's base speed was equal to a clipper, the clipper being regradeable would make it faster in the long run(Divine Sails and propellant and you can even fit divine cannons on it; so speed and damage surpassing a subs) so there's little point to cry on that aspect.

The current ships even with a sub buffed to 10m/s will still be a better investment and cost less(Like the clipper). The actual cost of the submarine is a Galleon yet what we get is less than a 5 gilda donkey. Also if you are expecting to go faster than the 5.5m/s on the sub, you are going to need a breathing device so that's the oxygen tank craftable part being useless at that point.

Polrena
08-05-2015, 02:46 PM
I think using real life comparisions to a fictional robotic fish are beyond dumb, especially when the game has magic and other oddities.

If the vehicle were called a "subdolphiad" or some other fictional term, you'd have a point. However, comparing something called a "submarine" to a, you know, submarine, isn't "beyond dumb," any more than comparing a magically summoned horse to a, well, horse. You expect the horse to be faster than walking. If we had a turtle or snail mount, the naming convention alone would lead you to expect it to be slow. Ergo, something called a submarine should not be expected to be swift. Expecting it to carry more than one passenger, possibly. Expecting it to allow underwater transportation without the need to resurface for breathing, certainly. Expecting torpedos that target hulls from beneath the surface, sure. Speed, no.

JerryBoyle
08-05-2015, 03:44 PM
If the vehicle were called a "subdolphiad" or some other fictional term, you'd have a point. However, comparing something called a "submarine" to a, you know, submarine, isn't "beyond dumb," any more than comparing a magically summoned horse to a, well, horse. You expect the horse to be faster than walking. If we had a turtle or snail mount, the naming convention alone would lead you to expect it to be slow. Ergo, something called a submarine should not be expected to be swift. Expecting it to carry more than one passenger, possibly. Expecting it to allow underwater transportation without the need to resurface for breathing, certainly. Expecting torpedos that target hulls from beneath the surface, sure. Speed, no.
If you want to be anal about it then a donkey shouldn't be faster than a submarine. A non sea animal being faster doesn't make sense when against something designed for the sea. A dolphin on the other hand should be faster than a donkey as well and it isn't. So all these comparisions are doing the opposite of what you want them to.

A small boost to the sub's base speed isn't going to be impactful at all in the game. It'll finally outdue the dolphin and donkey though and give it a purpose.
Donkey(Worst)>Dolphin(Good)>Submarine(Best) is how it should be balanced, not Submarine(Worst)>Dolphin(Good)>Donkey(Best)>Clipper(Better)

Polrena
08-05-2015, 05:14 PM
I'm not sure that the donkey being fast in water was intended.

That being said, I'd far rather see changes that do make sense, like torpedos being able to lock onto a target and doing proportional damage for the amount of cannons required. If not lockable, then at least increased range. Oh and useful sonar. I'm OK with rendering distance range if they want to call it a periscope. Sonar should be further, though.

With those kinds of changes, the low speed would be a reasonable balance, and would make sense.