PDA

View Full Version : [REQUEST] Adjust Submarine Stats & Functionality



Celestrata Bloodsong
10-28-2015, 03:57 PM
Description: Upon the release of the Steamfish Submarines, community feedback showed that the general community did not find the submarines enjoyable. Feedback specifically included:


Submarines were too slow
The art on the oxygen supply shows an air line going to the passenger, but the passenger does not receive air.
Increase the sonar beyond the normal visible range of a player.
Change torpedos so they either do more damage or don't take more ammo than most other naval vessels.


Status: The above feedback has been given to XL for their consideration. No changes have been committed to at this time.

stupidgirl
10-28-2015, 05:47 PM
Please make subs the best way to kill fishing boats, it is not like we should have to spend lots of gold on ships or something to do ocean pvp.

Tammuz
10-28-2015, 07:27 PM
buff subs but REASONABLY...

we do not want the OP korean version where a sub or two can take down a fully upgraded galleon with the galeon unable to respond

subs should have a roll in the game (pirating, blowing up fishing boats, etc) but galleons should remain the primary mode of ship v ship combat

stupidgirl
10-28-2015, 08:33 PM
2 words:

depth charges

Deathshades
10-29-2015, 06:33 AM
they should be on = ground as a clipper with a cannon far as upgrades go make them same speed and damg they really same thing just 1 on top 1 under

Longrod Von Hugendong
10-29-2015, 07:00 AM
Should also make some changes that enable gallons to be the preferred pirating ship instead of a merch. Its dumb that we need a merchant ship to gank other merchant ships. It doesn't feel very "piratey" stealing packs in a merchant ship, galleons should be the preferred method of causing chaos on the open seas.

TwiddlyWink
10-29-2015, 11:00 AM
Should also make some changes that enable gallons to be the preferred pirating ship instead of a merch. Its dumb that we need a merchant ship to gank other merchant ships. It doesn't feel very "piratey" stealing packs in a merchant ship, galleons should be the preferred method of causing chaos on the open seas.

You don't, you have a boarding party on a fast clipper and the rest of the group on the galleon. One harpoon and the galleon can catch up.

Focslain
10-30-2015, 10:35 AM
You don't, you have a boarding party on a fast clipper and the rest of the group on the galleon. One harpoon and the galleon can catch up.

Or you have a harpoon and chainshot cannons mounted on the galleon, works nice as a disabling salvo.

On topic, yes a speed boost would be nice, something where an upgraded version is around 10 m/s would be amazing.

As for the torpedo dmg, something along lines of a captain's cannon would be nice so their a danger to clippers solo, merchant in packs, but not so good against galleons

Gestahl VonSchlichten
10-30-2015, 11:01 AM
Torpedoes could have a small snare debuff that stacks with each hit.

So one Sub could be a threat if to a smaller ship but multiple subs could be actually useful against larger vessels.

Focslain
10-30-2015, 11:07 AM
Torpedoes could have a small snare debuff that stacks with each hit.

So one Sub could be a threat if to a smaller ship but multiple subs could be actually useful against larger vessels.

Bonus damage to rudders perhaps? Like how chain shot gets bonus damage to sails.

AgentRed
10-30-2015, 01:26 PM
I feel the subs need be the clippers base speed. Radar range show is like 500 to make it not as good as a ship's radar and since it cost a lot to make need to be able to see out of render range. I would love to see my friend getting oxygen from my ox tank. If we are keeping the cost of ammo for torpedos, it needs to do three times the basic cannons damage since it cost 3 steel ammo.

Shogun
10-30-2015, 02:32 PM
Easy solution

The damage is a joke especially considering that any ship can simply outrun the torpedo so it is a combination of application and paper stats being poor.

It should be able to match a clipper in terms of speed players with swimfins go faster its a joke.

Tammuz
10-31-2015, 02:32 AM
2 words:

depth charges

actually, yes. it's extremely unrealistic that people swiming or on subs can avoid explosion damage by swimming under the surface, explosions in water are far more dangerous than those in air.

Careby
10-31-2015, 04:26 AM
Since submarines are sea mounts, it would make sense if they could be used in sea events. Currently they cannot be used near Whirlpool Isle in the Sea of Graves. Not only do they not provide any protection to the rider from the Abyssal Burden debuff, they actually DIE there.

Please revisit the role of submarines in sea-oriented events.

Dreezel
10-31-2015, 11:32 AM
Try making the Submarine parts cheaper to craft and make tham like Ship regrade

Torpedo
maybe 2-3 Kinds of torpedos with difrent attack types
example
1 Gives Every1 a Poison Buff giving Dmg over time and reduced recieved healing
1 gives like a burning tick on the ship that can stack up to 25 times and destroy the ship use water to clear debuf on ship
1 just damage like the ones are now
* would love to see submarine fights in Abbysal/Luscas event
*im a user of the Chrome Submarine and he cant shoot Torpedo let every submarine be able to shoot Torpedos

Tailfin
crafted the 10% tailfin with the 12% movement gem but i was curios wy it cant be combined with the Burst Engine for the extra speedboost

Aircanon
Should be able to use While moving

Submarine Overal
Make it like a Real machine and no pet so you get less knockd off your submarine in Seafights when hit by Torpedo Ect

Vendral
11-01-2015, 03:58 PM
Submarine Overal
Make it like a Real machine and no pet so you get less knockd off your submarine in Seafights when hit by Torpedo Ect

THIS RIGHT HERE -- The thought of a machine you build from scratch taking multiple pieces to fabricate on a machining table should NOT BE A PET!!! It's a vehicle thus should be treated as such. MAKE THIS HAPPEN!! pretty please..

zerojs
11-02-2015, 06:12 AM
I would like to see them have a base speed of about 8/9ms so just a little slower than a default clipper setup, but with boosts they could catch up.

The torpedo slot should be able to take several different kinds of cannon like with ships that are re-gradable..maybe one with low range but high dmg and one with really high range but medium dmg etc.

AgentRed
11-02-2015, 03:37 PM
I would like to see them have a base speed of about 8/9ms so just a little slower than a default clipper setup, but with boosts they could catch up.

The torpedo slot should be able to take several different kinds of cannon like with ships that are re-gradable..maybe one with low range but high dmg and one with really high range but medium dmg etc.

You do realize that clippers have boosts too right? So you won't catch up and the boost for subs cost alot more like 345g on my server. It is also stuck at basic grade. There is no regrading sub parts right now.

Tammuz
11-02-2015, 04:28 PM
Easy solution

The damage is a joke especially considering that any ship can simply outrun the torpedo so it is a combination of application and paper stats being poor.

It should be able to match a clipper in terms of speed players with swimfins go faster its a joke.

they should NOT be the answer to galeons though like they were in Korea where galeons essentially became obsolete and you had the entire server on subs, especially given the massive difference in cost required between getting and upgrading the two (getting a heavily geared and regraded galleon can cost many tens of thousands of gold, many many times the cost of subs).

I see a sub ultimately being something akin to a clipper underwater, with the ability to shoot its captians cannon (torpedo). galeons do need a way to engage them however (ie depth charges).

Skylight
11-02-2015, 04:36 PM
red blue and white submarines in mirage isle were given higher base movespeed in their most recent patch.

Vendral
11-02-2015, 04:53 PM
Odds are that XL will be skeptical about changing any of the code to do an entire overhaul on a single piece.

Here's a better idea (IMO):
Leave the submarines as pet's but "Normalize" them the trion way - Gilda's go 9.0m/s / Chrome goes 10.0m/s / Archeum Pack Onyx goes 11.0m/s -- Then all they have to do is find the code line that reads something like "abletobeknockedoff = TRUE" and turn True to "FALSE"

or something along those lines -- then we can just fix the torpedo's n what not l8er

Vendral
11-02-2015, 05:01 PM
red blue and white submarines in mirage isle were given higher base movespeed in their most recent patch.

do you have a link to the patch notes by chance? Or know the number's they were increased to?

Vendral
11-03-2015, 11:18 AM
I would like to make a note that everything i've posted about the submarine up to this point has been based off a chrome submarine with no songcraft or any other armor upgrades that you can make for the sub's.

That being said, this is what i've achieved in a day after making my submarine.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/l/t1.0-9/11222510_969506313107687_4150391419810789027_n.jpg ?oh=8cc6976f54ded16c594e3583ddc63089&oe=56BAAFB8

As you can see, i got my sub up to 12m/s but that is ONLY after hitting my burst cannon + the marketplace tailfin with a 12% lunafrost gem and songcraft going - and it only got up to 12m/s for a split second.

I would also like to point out that the base speed of my chrome sub only goes 7m/s with the tailfin and nothing else going underwater.

I honestly don't know where to go at this point, if you increase the base speed of the submarine you're going to end up with really overpowered sub's unless you turn them into vehicles (which then they wont be able to be effected by songcraft at all) then i would say increase the base speed, otherwise i have no clue how to make the sub more effective.

Mickyan
11-03-2015, 11:44 AM
As you can see, i got my sub up to 12m/s but that is ONLY after hitting my burst cannon + the marketplace tailfin with a 12% lunafrost gem and songcraft going - and it only got up to 12m/s for a split second.

Do note this is the max speed, the effective speed is lower than that because the bonus from songcraft isn't constant.
I've tested it with a guild mate and the sub could not keep up with a basic clipper for very long.

Neither the sub nor the giant tailfin is cheap. At all. Making a speed comparison between a stock clipper and a fully upgraded submarine is like comparing a farm cart and a race car

My suggestion would be, in addition to slightly increasing the base speed and buffing all the abilities, to consider adding a movement speed reduction to the torpedo cannon so that trying to pursue and sink a properly equipped ship becomes more difficult, without impeding the submarine's ability to travel outside of combat.

Vendral
11-03-2015, 12:07 PM
Do note this is the max speed, the effective speed is lower than that because the bonus from songcraft isn't constant.
I've tested it with a guild mate and the sub could not keep up with a basic clipper for very long.

Neither the sub nor the giant tailfin is cheap. At all. Making a speed comparison between a stock clipper and a fully upgraded submarine is like comparing a farm cart and a race car

My suggestion would be, in addition to slightly increasing the base speed and buffing all the abilities, to consider adding a movement speed reduction to the torpedo cannon so that trying to pursue and sink a properly equipped ship becomes more difficult, without impeding the submarine's ability to travel outside of combat.

I see what you mean. I would honestly like for all the parts to be interchangeable between sub's as the chrome submarine can not use the Torpedo's and is stuck with the air cannon only that we have to sacrifice our unique stealthing ability to use. For the chrome submarine we can only use stealth when the sonar is equipped and can only use the air blaster when the air cannon is equipped but they are both head slot items. It's fine to have "unique" skills to each sub, that will make each one viable in their own situations, still at the same time you shouldn't hender one from using torpedo's or make the air cannon a waist item instead.

I would say the best course for action at this point in time is to let us get our hands on the new KR patch that boosted the base speed of the submarines. That will give us a basis to see what XL thinks it should be and maybe they'll let Trion tweek it a little here and there for the betterment of NA / EU. *fingers crossed*

Thenijiway
11-04-2015, 04:38 AM
There's also something else that needs to be improved with subs
They have 2 lights for eyes
But the lights don't light so theres no lighting to be able to see underwater
And also maybe improving light for the dive helmet would be good as well

ncbwilson
11-04-2015, 07:58 AM
Agreed on the illumination part as well. I'm usually in the dive helmet and fins but additional light would be nice.
// still trying to level machining to be able to make additional parts for my sub - would love to see it become a machine instead of a pet.

Thenijiway
11-05-2015, 03:54 AM
Agreed on the illumination part as well. I'm usually in the dive helmet and fins but additional light would be nice.
// still trying to level machining to be able to make additional parts for my sub - would love to see it become a machine instead of a pet.

I don't think it would be anywhere near possible to have subs as a machine instead of a pet
Cause machines and vehicles and stuff seem to only be able to go forward, back, left and right

Also celestrata pls ask xl for better lights on sub and maybe dive helmet pls

zerojs
11-06-2015, 04:14 AM
Translated from the korean 2.5 patch notes

"The existing white, red, blue has leveled the moving speed of the submersible.

Useful submersible to explore faster and that no Arta subs can be obtained through the salvaging content."

So im guessing the speeds are increased in 2.5..but not sure about the chrome steamfish.. I hope so.. I just bought a design

Thenijiway
11-07-2015, 05:02 AM
I have a feeling that celestrata never reads any replies to threads
Cause I need to know if the sub lights will also be fixed
But she no say anything

Celestrata pls

FarmerPotato
11-07-2015, 07:39 AM
I think you also need to remove speed decrease with tradepacks. This is a motorized machine, it must not slow down with one trade pack.
Longboard doesn't slow down with trade packs, so submarines should preserve their speeds too. Carrying one tradepack with a good speed won't impact the economy.

SkullMonkey
11-07-2015, 11:47 AM
they should be on = ground as a clipper with a cannon far as upgrades go make them same speed and damg they really same thing just 1 on top 1 under

I agree speed/upgrade wise they should be on the same level as a clipper. O2 tanks should be upgradable as well but Damage should remain weak and ammo expensive so that way we don't have fleets of subs sinking galleons.

They should also have the ability to have a shroud light to hide them from radar.

Thenijiway
11-07-2015, 05:39 PM
I think you also need to remove speed decrease with tradepacks. This is a motorized machine, it must not slow down with one trade pack.
Longboard doesn't slow down with trade packs, so submarines should preserve their speeds too. Carrying one tradepack with a good speed won't impact the economy.

Longboards were actually never intended to be able to hold trade packs

Aldasa
11-10-2015, 09:20 AM
Submarines should not take damage from the Abyssal debuff. Its a crafted item like a clipper. Not a Mount.

Sharza
11-10-2015, 11:44 AM
I agree speed/upgrade wise they should be on the same level as a clipper. O2 tanks should be upgradable as well but Damage should remain weak and ammo expensive so that way we don't have fleets of subs sinking galleons.

They should also have the ability to have a shroud light to hide them from radar.

Do they actually show up on Radar? I dont believe that they do.

And as for a Fleet of Subs. A Fleet should be able to take down a galleon. The amount of time and effort put into making a fleet of them would be Astronomical.

Thenijiway
11-11-2015, 04:30 AM
Submarines should not take damage from the Abyssal debuff. Its a crafted item like a clipper. Not a Mount.

But it is a mount

ncbwilson
11-12-2015, 10:25 AM
Hence part of many of the problems with a sub, it's a mount and not a machine.

Yorick
11-19-2015, 05:35 PM
@ Celestrata Bloodsong: A Description of Steamfish and their functionality

Intro
<center>The current state of steamfish AKA Submarines are as already known near useless. With this matter already under address for the new and upcoming update to the ocean with submarines being a key part in this I wish to sit down and write to you a description of the current state of submarines with information on all their uses. Then I will list some more details for you about the current obtainable submarines and to what may could be done. These changes given are only opinions from someone who is not only a fanatic of subs, a pirate, a seaman at heart on this game. I was not around to see with my own eyes the devastation the old submarines could do before their crippling nerf, but have seen a few videos. Which in all understanding was a good idea to do since not only was they vastly overpowered but to in a way push members away from the content so that time would whittle out who was dedicated to the use of these machines. The ideas I bring forth will also repeat some listed as well by you and many of the community due to an overwhelming need of them to be changed in those areas so forgive me for being repetitive with this post. Now let us get to the descriptions of all obtainable Steamfish (THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE GILDED STEAMFISH)</center>

================================================== ==========================================
Copper Steamfish (lifeguard quest)
• Unable to be equipped with any gear
• Moves 5.5 Above water
• Moves 5.0 below
• Used as a starter steamfish. This steamfish is the lowest of the low only there to intrigue or hook players into the potential idea, fun, an adventure that they may experience with steamfish.
[[Things that can be changed to enhance this With reasoning behind said changes]]
• This Steamfish was designed to be given freely to those people who finished the lifeguard quest in order to get them interested in the steamfish. This item I believe is fine where it is besides the fact it needs to have its speed increased. NOW before someone loads an arrow to shoot me listen. The fact it needs a speed boost does NOT MEAN it needs to be on par with the there after mentioned subs. This is a steamfish which was purely made to get people interested in it. This being said the below changes would help achieve that fact but not offend any submarine owners now who have sunk 1,856g+ into creating an actual steamfish.
• STILL unable to be upgraded with any pet attachments. This is because it was given to them freely.
• Moves 8.0 Above water
• Moves 8.5 Below water
• Changed to be a Machine (NOT A PET)
• The changes above simply adjust its speed lower then the normal steamfish but keep the feel of the machine.
================================================== ==========================================
The Gilda Star Steamfish (Ruby, Lapis, Platinum)
• Can be equipped with all steamfish pet gear. Allows access to every basic steamfish ability when the corresponding parts are equip.
• Moves 5.5 Above water
• Moves 5.0 Below water (The only exception is the Ruby Steamfish who is currently bugged from last I heard to move 6.9)
• These steamfish are the next on our tier to the top. These are bought with 250 Gilda Stars and bring the full package to those who bought them. These are the steamfish most players will or would commonly have. Many have made the comparison that These are to be on the same level as a clipper. I am at a cross with this idea as Clippers are vessels who are built purely on speed and movement. They have no real offensive abilities but are a danger if they have a harpoon on them making them a horror to escaping Fishing Boats & Merchant Ships. This idea is in essence the same idea that should be the submarines they are built for subterfuge and ambushing. But do I believe They should out run a clipper I am at a cross for this, Do I think they should outrun a merchant ship and a Fishing Boat Yes. I'm sure you see the problem with my statement before hand. Where as a clipper has the ability to harpoon and STOP retreating ships if played right The submarines are built to catch up ambush and attack These vulnerable targets. I believe that a single steamfish should not be able to attack and defeat a Galleon and DANG SURE should not be able to even ATTEMPT to contest a Enoan Galleon. These Steamfish are not just Water mounts who are meant to be slow moving trade horse who go across the ocean blue stealthy to make secret runs. That is the job of a merchant ship who Should have put Upgraded Shoudlights on their ship... These steamfish are meant to be war machines Here is an excerpt from the Dread Prophecies Spotlight on them.

•
Time marches onward in Erenor, and the machinists of war welcome an incredible innovation to the winding waterways of the world: submarines. Intrepid adventurers will dive to untold depths and experience Dahuta’s deep seas with fresh eyes in these spectacular new submersibles.

They are described as machines along with the fact they are built by war machinist to explore the depths of Dahuta's domain. This said the current changes would be very helpful AND YES I KNOW it also says if you read down on that spotlight they are not machines they are mounts Which is a mistake. The fact these are not machines prevent their use as a FLEET to those who spend time, money, effort, coordination, and planning to use in abyssal event to help contest abyssal. The fact as well many people might have not noticed is if your in the water even on a vehicle it will still damage you. If this could be changed with the fact they should be machines it be perfect. But even if it was changed the main reason these machines need to be machines is they are effected by buffs by songcraft users. This pushes dedicated submarine commanders or those aspiring to make a fleet to pick up the skill set not only to increase the speed, defense, and attack of these "mounts" right now for proper use. This plus the tailfin pipe on a chrome steamfish will cap you off at 12 as your movement for a brief moment. This would be very borderline powerful if the new buffed steamfish was allowed to be buffed in that way aswell tipping the tides to those who dipped into songcraft just for the bonuses. If people was allowed to regrade the accessories to increase base stats,damage, and skill effects this would put rng in the mix plus put power to those who dedicate themselves to upgrading the pieces as high a regrade they can get. I believe these items could be made into ship components if not already listed as such so they can be regraded up as such to enhance the effects of the steamfish abilities. Here are the changes to This tier of Steamfish below.

• Change to a machine not a mount (like the Cars or Longboards)
• Moves 11.5 Above water
• Moves 12.0 Below water
• Torpedo damage increased from 300 each hit they should be hitting around 1,214 damage as a base for siege damage. BUT retain the cost they have of 3 steel ammo per shot.
• The Air Cannon should be Siege damage and do around 875 siege damage plus be able to be used with movement. The reason behind this is NOT all submarines have the ability to use torpedoes but they do not need to replace them. You could argue it needs to be higher since they need to be aimed and you have to be close but it would be to powerful to make the damage any higher as a base without proper regrading. Even then the torpedoes are made specifically to damage ships this item was made to yes knock back incoming intruders from getting to you but that is one of the fattest snow balls chance in the sun to do effectively with the amount of gap closers stuns and stops they have.
• You should not be able to be knocked off your steamfish by CC. This happens alot and just stops a steamfish in their tracks causing them to be rendered useless. This happens as well randomly while swimming at times.
• Sonar range has to be increased there is no work around that I can see. They should be stronger. I would say something behind that of a galleons radar but still have the chance of regrading to make it stronger or make it upgradeable.
================================================== ==========================================
Chrome Steamfish
• Can be equipped with all the pet accessories BUT torpedos are Unavailable for Use.
• Moves 6.5 Above water
• Moves 6.0 Below Water
• Has Stealth Skill 30second Use(1m cd)
• Drops as a world drop from Sunken Treasures (Takes nearly months of work to get if your not a Botter/Hacker (OR) You can buy it for generally 1k gold)
• This is the next tier of Submarine on our list of Available tiers. This Submarine is Built purely for stealth. The problem with this one is YES its faster then the above average ones by a whole 1.0ms this has an ability to be stealth for 30seconds and 30seconds of no stealth. This one here is made for not only getting past mobs that surround sunken treasures in an out with ease but also to get under ships to spy on their movements. While using stealth NO ATTACKS or skills can be USED while you do it means to get full use out of it you cannot songcraft preform, scan for ships, use breating buff, or obviously attack so you are moving at the base of 6.0 for its duration which is nice I like that just as it is. Would be better yes if move speed was increased but we will get to that on the next bit. You cannot use torpedo as mentioned which is annoying. As for previous ones you can use all the skills aslong as you have the parts. If Air cannon was changed to do siege damage despite this being less equipped It would not be near as much a problem due to the fact you would have something in your arsenal to attack a ship instead of just being the scout vessel. I understand each tier should have something unique to them that way its something for each person to work towards. If they need more a stealth / scout unit for the head of the pack or want to ambush This would be the one despite its no existent form of damage on any type of ship. Below is the recommended changes to this tier of ship.
• Moves 12.0 Above water
• Moves 12.5 Below water
• Allow use of torpedoes on this steamfish or change how Air Cannon works to be able to do siege damage as mentioned before on the Gilda star subs
• Change the Sonar range to be Above average then the Gilda Star subs allows for better detection for this scout class of steamfish.
• CHANGE TO MACHINE NOT MOUNT
================================================== ==========================================
Onyx Steamfish
• Moves 6.0 Above Water
• Moves 5.5 Below water
• Has an increased radar range 250 where as the chrome has 100
• Has an increased burst engine speed 50% where as chrome has 30%
• Has ability to use torpedoes
• It is clear our next tier of Steamfish is MEANT to be the Attack sub. This is full optimized for hard attack and quick burst speed. The Oynx steamfish has a lower base speed then the submarine and its underwater speed is on par with the above water speed of the gilda subs. This vessel is not meant for speed but momentary burst of speed to ensure it keeps up with its enemy so they may attack. This is our final tier of submarine all it makes me think of its lighting war tactic. Yes I know its passive speed is slower then chrome but its base stats on abilities are vastly large that is why this is the final tier of submarines available. Not much needs to change on this as it has all it needs to be except the basic upgrades given to all submarines which are now listed below.

• Moves 11.5 Above water
• Moves 12.5 Below water
• Sonar Range increased To be larger then the Chrome / Gilda subs sonar
• Keeps its increased burst engine speed at its level right now ITS PERFECTLY FINE!
• Increase the torpedo damage like the last ones on the SAME level as the ones for gilda subs. This can be debated amongst the developers if they wish to solidify this as THE attack sub by making its torpedoes stronger if desired would not be game breaking if so.
• CHANGE TO MACHINE NOT MOUNT
================================================== ==========================================
::TLDR::
• All subs speed are increased based on what Tier they are ALL SUBS HAVING INCREASED speed underwater The reason for this is clear. Submarines are meant to be underwater machines.
• All Submarines Air Cannons now do Siege damage & increased to 875 . That way all steamfish have some ability to attack ships be it weak or Strong.
• Should the above not be allowed then give all Steamfish the ability to use torpedoes with the torpedo accessory.
• Torpedo damage increased 1,214 siege damage. (Onyx Steamfish COULD have theirs increased to show its built for damage)
• All steamfish are made into Machines NOT Mounts. This way they are not effected by abyssal whisper and they require shatigon sand to fix. This also keeps them from going out of render range like mounts and people can to stealthfully sneak under their view to follow ships out of their sight. This can be controversial to those who Love steamfish but Its needed. Sat in the middle of Ezi's nuia harbor all day unseen as i was out of their range gathering info on ships as needed. without even using stealth.
• Steamfish need oxygen tank fixed to give the buff to passengers.

I thank you for your time and I thank you to those who read this whole mess..I know my typing is horrid..But I thought I would give a detailed post about my thoughts as so far.

Archaelin
11-24-2015, 07:50 AM
@ Celestrata Bloodsong: A Description of Steamfish and their functionality

Intro
<center>The current state of steamfish AKA Submarines are as already known near useless. With this matter already under address for the new and upcoming update to the ocean with submarines being a key part in this I wish to sit down and write to you a description of the current state of submarines with information on all their uses. Then I will list some more details for you about the current obtainable submarines and to what may could be done. These changes given are only opinions from someone who is not only a fanatic of subs, a pirate, a seaman at heart on this game. I was not around to see with my own eyes the devastation the old submarines could do before their crippling nerf, but have seen a few videos. Which in all understanding was a good idea to do since not only was they vastly overpowered but to in a way push members away from the content so that time would whittle out who was dedicated to the use of these machines. The ideas I bring forth will also repeat some listed as well by you and many of the community due to an overwhelming need of them to be changed in those areas so forgive me for being repetitive with this post. Now let us get to the descriptions of all obtainable Steamfish (THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE GILDED STEAMFISH)</center>

================================================== ==========================================
Copper Steamfish (lifeguard quest)
• Unable to be equipped with any gear
• Moves 5.5 Above water
• Moves 5.0 below
• Used as a starter steamfish. This steamfish is the lowest of the low only there to intrigue or hook players into the potential idea, fun, an adventure that they may experience with steamfish.
[[Things that can be changed to enhance this With reasoning behind said changes]]
• This Steamfish was designed to be given freely to those people who finished the lifeguard quest in order to get them interested in the steamfish. This item I believe is fine where it is besides the fact it needs to have its speed increased. NOW before someone loads an arrow to shoot me listen. The fact it needs a speed boost does NOT MEAN it needs to be on par with the there after mentioned subs. This is a steamfish which was purely made to get people interested in it. This being said the below changes would help achieve that fact but not offend any submarine owners now who have sunk 1,856g+ into creating an actual steamfish.
• STILL unable to be upgraded with any pet attachments. This is because it was given to them freely.
• Moves 8.0 Above water
• Moves 8.5 Below water
• Changed to be a Machine (NOT A PET)
• The changes above simply adjust its speed lower then the normal steamfish but keep the feel of the machine.
================================================== ==========================================
The Gilda Star Steamfish (Ruby, Lapis, Platinum)
• Can be equipped with all steamfish pet gear. Allows access to every basic steamfish ability when the corresponding parts are equip.
• Moves 5.5 Above water
• Moves 5.0 Below water (The only exception is the Ruby Steamfish who is currently bugged from last I heard to move 6.9)
• These steamfish are the next on our tier to the top. These are bought with 250 Gilda Stars and bring the full package to those who bought them. These are the steamfish most players will or would commonly have. Many have made the comparison that These are to be on the same level as a clipper. I am at a cross with this idea as Clippers are vessels who are built purely on speed and movement. They have no real offensive abilities but are a danger if they have a harpoon on them making them a horror to escaping Fishing Boats & Merchant Ships. This idea is in essence the same idea that should be the submarines they are built for subterfuge and ambushing. But do I believe They should out run a clipper I am at a cross for this, Do I think they should outrun a merchant ship and a Fishing Boat Yes. I'm sure you see the problem with my statement before hand. Where as a clipper has the ability to harpoon and STOP retreating ships if played right The submarines are built to catch up ambush and attack These vulnerable targets. I believe that a single steamfish should not be able to attack and defeat a Galleon and DANG SURE should not be able to even ATTEMPT to contest a Enoan Galleon. These Steamfish are not just Water mounts who are meant to be slow moving trade horse who go across the ocean blue stealthy to make secret runs. That is the job of a merchant ship who Should have put Upgraded Shoudlights on their ship... These steamfish are meant to be war machines Here is an excerpt from the Dread Prophecies Spotlight on them.



They are described as machines along with the fact they are built by war machinist to explore the depths of Dahuta's domain. This said the current changes would be very helpful AND YES I KNOW it also says if you read down on that spotlight they are not machines they are mounts Which is a mistake. The fact these are not machines prevent their use as a FLEET to those who spend time, money, effort, coordination, and planning to use in abyssal event to help contest abyssal. The fact as well many people might have not noticed is if your in the water even on a vehicle it will still damage you. If this could be changed with the fact they should be machines it be perfect. But even if it was changed the main reason these machines need to be machines is they are effected by buffs by songcraft users. This pushes dedicated submarine commanders or those aspiring to make a fleet to pick up the skill set not only to increase the speed, defense, and attack of these "mounts" right now for proper use. This plus the tailfin pipe on a chrome steamfish will cap you off at 12 as your movement for a brief moment. This would be very borderline powerful if the new buffed steamfish was allowed to be buffed in that way aswell tipping the tides to those who dipped into songcraft just for the bonuses. If people was allowed to regrade the accessories to increase base stats,damage, and skill effects this would put rng in the mix plus put power to those who dedicate themselves to upgrading the pieces as high a regrade they can get. I believe these items could be made into ship components if not already listed as such so they can be regraded up as such to enhance the effects of the steamfish abilities. Here are the changes to This tier of Steamfish below.

• Change to a machine not a mount (like the Cars or Longboards)
• Moves 11.5 Above water
• Moves 12.0 Below water
• Torpedo damage increased from 300 each hit they should be hitting around 1,214 damage as a base for siege damage. BUT retain the cost they have of 3 steel ammo per shot.
• The Air Cannon should be Siege damage and do around 875 siege damage plus be able to be used with movement. The reason behind this is NOT all submarines have the ability to use torpedoes but they do not need to replace them. You could argue it needs to be higher since they need to be aimed and you have to be close but it would be to powerful to make the damage any higher as a base without proper regrading. Even then the torpedoes are made specifically to damage ships this item was made to yes knock back incoming intruders from getting to you but that is one of the fattest snow balls chance in the sun to do effectively with the amount of gap closers stuns and stops they have.
• You should not be able to be knocked off your steamfish by CC. This happens alot and just stops a steamfish in their tracks causing them to be rendered useless. This happens as well randomly while swimming at times.
• Sonar range has to be increased there is no work around that I can see. They should be stronger. I would say something behind that of a galleons radar but still have the chance of regrading to make it stronger or make it upgradeable.
================================================== ==========================================
Chrome Steamfish
• Can be equipped with all the pet accessories BUT torpedos are Unavailable for Use.
• Moves 6.5 Above water
• Moves 6.0 Below Water
• Has Stealth Skill 30second Use(1m cd)
• Drops as a world drop from Sunken Treasures (Takes nearly months of work to get if your not a Botter/Hacker (OR) You can buy it for generally 1k gold)
• This is the next tier of Submarine on our list of Available tiers. This Submarine is Built purely for stealth. The problem with this one is YES its faster then the above average ones by a whole 1.0ms this has an ability to be stealth for 30seconds and 30seconds of no stealth. This one here is made for not only getting past mobs that surround sunken treasures in an out with ease but also to get under ships to spy on their movements. While using stealth NO ATTACKS or skills can be USED while you do it means to get full use out of it you cannot songcraft preform, scan for ships, use breating buff, or obviously attack so you are moving at the base of 6.0 for its duration which is nice I like that just as it is. Would be better yes if move speed was increased but we will get to that on the next bit. You cannot use torpedo as mentioned which is annoying. As for previous ones you can use all the skills aslong as you have the parts. If Air cannon was changed to do siege damage despite this being less equipped It would not be near as much a problem due to the fact you would have something in your arsenal to attack a ship instead of just being the scout vessel. I understand each tier should have something unique to them that way its something for each person to work towards. If they need more a stealth / scout unit for the head of the pack or want to ambush This would be the one despite its no existent form of damage on any type of ship. Below is the recommended changes to this tier of ship.
• Moves 12.0 Above water
• Moves 12.5 Below water
• Allow use of torpedoes on this steamfish or change how Air Cannon works to be able to do siege damage as mentioned before on the Gilda star subs
• Change the Sonar range to be Above average then the Gilda Star subs allows for better detection for this scout class of steamfish.
• CHANGE TO MACHINE NOT MOUNT
================================================== ==========================================
Onyx Steamfish
• Moves 6.0 Above Water
• Moves 5.5 Below water
• Has an increased radar range 250 where as the chrome has 100
• Has an increased burst engine speed 50% where as chrome has 30%
• Has ability to use torpedoes
• It is clear our next tier of Steamfish is MEANT to be the Attack sub. This is full optimized for hard attack and quick burst speed. The Oynx steamfish has a lower base speed then the submarine and its underwater speed is on par with the above water speed of the gilda subs. This vessel is not meant for speed but momentary burst of speed to ensure it keeps up with its enemy so they may attack. This is our final tier of submarine all it makes me think of its lighting war tactic. Yes I know its passive speed is slower then chrome but its base stats on abilities are vastly large that is why this is the final tier of submarines available. Not much needs to change on this as it has all it needs to be except the basic upgrades given to all submarines which are now listed below.

• Moves 11.5 Above water
• Moves 12.5 Below water
• Sonar Range increased To be larger then the Chrome / Gilda subs sonar
• Keeps its increased burst engine speed at its level right now ITS PERFECTLY FINE!
• Increase the torpedo damage like the last ones on the SAME level as the ones for gilda subs. This can be debated amongst the developers if they wish to solidify this as THE attack sub by making its torpedoes stronger if desired would not be game breaking if so.
• CHANGE TO MACHINE NOT MOUNT
================================================== ==========================================
::TLDR::
• All subs speed are increased based on what Tier they are ALL SUBS HAVING INCREASED speed underwater The reason for this is clear. Submarines are meant to be underwater machines.
• All Submarines Air Cannons now do Siege damage & increased to 875 . That way all steamfish have some ability to attack ships be it weak or Strong.
• Should the above not be allowed then give all Steamfish the ability to use torpedoes with the torpedo accessory.
• Torpedo damage increased 1,214 siege damage. (Onyx Steamfish COULD have theirs increased to show its built for damage)
• All steamfish are made into Machines NOT Mounts. This way they are not effected by abyssal whisper and they require shatigon sand to fix. This also keeps them from going out of render range like mounts and people can to stealthfully sneak under their view to follow ships out of their sight. This can be controversial to those who Love steamfish but Its needed. Sat in the middle of Ezi's nuia harbor all day unseen as i was out of their range gathering info on ships as needed. without even using stealth.
• Steamfish need oxygen tank fixed to give the buff to passengers.

I thank you for your time and I thank you to those who read this whole mess..I know my typing is horrid..But I thought I would give a detailed post about my thoughts as so far.

While I do not agree with all of the points in this post, I'd just like to thank this person for taking the time to write up such a detailed list and for their improvement suggestions. This is the kind of thing we need more of in Archeage if we want to see things continue to improve.

Thanks Yorick!

Yorick
11-25-2015, 09:46 PM
While I do not agree with all of the points in this post, I'd just like to thank this person for taking the time to write up such a detailed list and for their improvement suggestions. This is the kind of thing we need more of in Archeage if we want to see things continue to improve.

Thanks Yorick!

Thank you Archaelin, I am actually willing to have a full discussion on What would be better to have and Those points you do not agree with. As I'm just trying to throw out ideas from my viewpoint and gameplay point. It would be great to have a point of view from someone who plays differently.

AgentRed
11-25-2015, 11:25 PM
I wish trion would start talking about doing something about on the stream so we can get an update on where this is going XD

Zharius
11-26-2015, 06:17 PM
Please, do improve the submarines. I have the chrome & ruby versions. I REALLY appreciate the concept, but in practice they are useless for now. :(

Thenijiway
11-28-2015, 04:41 AM
*im just sitting here wishing someone at trion would read the comments of these threads*

sobin
12-03-2015, 11:24 AM
bump

Deathshades
12-13-2015, 08:08 PM
Cant we Get a Update Please or a ETa or anyThing TRION??

AgentRed
12-13-2015, 11:42 PM
Cant we Get a Update Please or a ETa or anyThing TRION??

They made these threads forget about them and if anyone questions them they can say we made a "feedback" thread.

Thenijiway
12-14-2015, 04:01 AM
In a few days/weeks celestrata would probably be like
"Oh ♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥ I completely forgot about the publisher request forums"

felixius
12-14-2015, 07:34 AM
I find it amazing that Trion will push for some things, but won't fight for others, and then use their publisher status as an excuse. Submarines are totally useless, we know it and Trion knows it. Why not push for some NA exclusive buffs? It could be as simple as adding better armor/components for our region that make speed and damage more viable. Just do something to show you care. We had to wait like 10 months for them to be put back in for "rebalancing", and we what we got was exactly the same thing that had been removed.

And before someone says "XL doesn't want to maintain multiple versions": news flash, they already do. Every time they push a patch to NA, it has to be modified to account for our no-stat costumes and normalized mounts.

Celestrata, if you wanted to gain some love from the community, start by working on this. I know you don't have tons of decision making power, but make it your personal war to make XL fix submarines. I'm sure most players wouldn't mind if you monetized it in some way, as long as the upgrades are tradeable. That would be a win-win.

MrFurious
12-14-2015, 01:47 PM
Hey Celestrata.

Pretend this is Sheepie all over again. Maybe then we'll see something happen here..

It's been months without word on this. Even a simple "Hey guys, we've brought this up to XL" is better than nothing. To be clear as well, my stance on the sub issues are as follows.

Increase speed to 10-11ms,
Have the subs move faster underwater,
Do not slow while carrying a tradepack
Oxygen to second rider
Increase damage on torpedos - maybe 1200 siege per hit
Greatly increase sonar - if I can see a ship with my own eyes, I don't need the existing sonar
I don't mind if they are mounts but in that case make them immune to abyssal debuff and don't dismount when rider is damaged.

Trymantha
12-14-2015, 02:09 PM
We have been asking for Submarine buffs since alpha/beta its been over a year since they were nerfed i dont expect ♥♥♥♥ from trion

ncbwilson
12-15-2015, 07:30 AM
Hey I know add costumes to submarines, maybe they will get attention then. FFS you can even sell them in the marketplace.
Submarines:
Too high price for gilda
Too high price to get Machining to 25000 to be able to craft items to be able to use the submarine for any use
You have a donkey that can be used instead
You have a dolphin that people can use instead
Can survive in the sea of graves because it's a mount instead of a machine

I wish I could get my $150 back I spent for primarily for this pos submarine.

AgentRed
12-16-2015, 03:03 PM
We really need to do a subgate next livestream to bring it back up to their attention

felixius
12-16-2015, 03:48 PM
We really need to do a subgate next livestream to bring it back up to their attention

I'm down, Let's get a #SubGate out!

ncbwilson
12-17-2015, 10:59 AM
If our version of 2.5 "Bloodsong" is going to incorporate the raising of ships in 2.5 that the Korean game does submarines will come back into being popular because you'll need the submarine to blow the debris off the boats before you can raise it to the surface w/ bags.
http://archeage.xlgames.com/wikis/%EC%84%A0%EB%B0%95%20%EC%9D%B8%EC%96%91

Lyse20
12-20-2015, 05:29 PM
Thank you Archaelin, I am actually willing to have a full discussion on What would be better to have and Those points you do not agree with. As I'm just trying to throw out ideas from my viewpoint and gameplay point. It would be great to have a point of view from someone who plays differently.

tbh the one with chrom being a scout sub and have lower radar then onix witch is attack should be changed.
a scout should be a scout and there for have bigger radar wile and attack sub should have a shorter radar.
if not you can just use the onix as scout even the lack of base speed almost replace the higher radar range.

also the onix should have 1-2 lower speed then chrom since its and attack sub and not scout like the chrom
scouts are always fast wile attack things are made slow due to high defence and/or heavey weapons.

as for oxygen tank i think they should be made permanent on all subs regarding tier. what is a sub without oxygen tank?
instead make it upgradable to enchant the duration

as for speed, they should be punished a bit more for going above water then 1ms(reason implated to go under not over)

Torpedos: they should do ALOT of siege damage 1200 is no were near strong enough. maybe 3-5000 damage(longer CD and cost alot more)
in my eyes subs should be able to sink an Galleon in about 5 hitts and maybe 10 hitts for the lower Tier making ppl want the best one to sink ships
Galleon 6-9 hitts(depending on sub Tier)
Fishing boat/tradeship 2-3 hitts
Clipper 1 hitt
ofc the more they upgrade there ships the more damage is needed to sink it.

this is my options to how the subs should be modified

Obejii
12-20-2015, 07:38 PM
This really does need attention. The submarine is useless as it currently is. I can swim faster with my swim fins and swimming title than I can with the submarine which does not make any sense. The ONLY reason someone would want the submarine is to go underwater treasure hunting which is the reason I wanted one.

Due to the submarines terrible speed it is not useful for searching the bottom of the ocean. The sunken ships are so few and far between that the slow speed kills the fun in searching the ocean for treasures.

It's come to my attention that there is a plan to lower the spawn rate of sunken chests. After 3 months of play and about 15 hours spent searching for chests I've only ever found 2 right next to each other. I've found several sunken ships (50 to 100 of them) however there are never chests there.

Please either fix the speed of the submarine to make it useful in any way (10 speed like a mount maybe or slightly better) or Consider leaving the spawn rate on sunken chests alone or even improving their spawn rate to get people into the ocean again. (The oceans are bare and lack people or reasons for people to be there.)

AgentRed
01-02-2016, 06:02 PM
Another year and still now info since nerf D:

Virusanti
01-19-2016, 08:27 PM
Because someone will read it soon or later (and hope Trion and XLGames read it too) I will say what I hope for Submarines (without take about the 2.5 patch), taking some ideas post before.

1.- Better Basic Stats
No sense why a sumarine need either a songcraft and/or tailfin to go fast as a clipper with BASIC-RARE GEARS, even player can go faster with tittle buff and gears; also the tradepack penality is so bad, though is a pet, the submarine is too slow, I like the idea to make traderuns without the fear of radars and without buying/using a shourdlight, if cost more than a clipper, it should have better stats than one.
A speed of 9.0 for gildas/copper submarines and 10.0 for onix and chrome and maybe a slow down of 7.0 and 8.0 with tradepack
Also, for Coppers Submarines, it could equip like the other, (or at least the oxygen tank only)

2.- Upgrade System to Submarine Gears
Like ship components and battle pet gears, submarines need a upgrade system, I know you like upgrade systems in everything, and make some sense of the need of 25k in machining to make the best gear of it.
A upgrade system where you need the first to make the second, and instead archeum, you need charcoal, rock salt, crystal or dragon essence stabilizer to craft it. (plus other material from maching of course)

Oxygen tank have 3 tiers
1st.- You can respire it as normal (5k Machining)
2nd.- You and your partner can respire it (15k) need the first tier
3rd.- Both Riders and Submarine are immunes to Sea of Graves' Debuff (25k) need the 2nd tier, 3 abyssal crystal (from the event of Abyssal Attack of course) and maybe a boss drop

Sonar have 3 tiers as well (copper submarine unable to use it)
1st.- Radar of 300m (5k)
2nd.- Radar of 500m (15k)
3rd.- Radar of 750m (25k), Chrome's Stealth has the same duration than it cd

Tailfins have 3 tiers
1st.- speed of 5% and don't need a rare drop (0 machining)
2nd.- speed of 10% (10k)
3rd.- speed of 20% (20k)

Bust Engine have 3 tier, and have a different effect with each submarine in the last tier
1st.- 15% Speed buff for 5 seconds (5k)
2nd.- 20% Speed buff for 5 seconds (15k)
3rd.- 30% speed buff for 5 seconds (25k)
- (Gildas and Onix) Can rush to target and deal damage on impact (if enemy), if self or non-target, work as normal
- (Chrome) Gain Imunnity to damage and debuffs. Can cast while Stealthed without break it.
- No bonus effect for Copper

At Tier 3 you can fuse both Tailfin and Bust Engine in one (need 40k in machining)

Torpedos and Air cannons have 5 tiers and like obsidian gears 2-3 types in the middle
Torpedo: 1st and 2nd Deal only damage
Upgrade A) Deal bonus damage to ships' Propellers and Figureheads and Iceberg and great "On-Fire" Debuff (Deal damage :V)
Upgrade B) Deal mix dagame (Siege and Normal Damage) but have long range than upgrade A
Upgrade C) can fuse with Oxygen tank tier 2 but can't be upgrade further

Air Cannon: 1st and 2nd Deal damage and push the target only
Upgrade A) Stun the target for 2-4 seconds, the stun can't be remove util expires
Upgrade B) Push farther and knockback the submarine, can use while moving and break battle up to use
Upgreade C) can fuse with Sonar Tier 2 but can't be upgrade further

3rd, 4th and 5th need 10k, 20k and 30k in maching


3.- More thing in the Seas
Even with the next 2.5 patch, the rest of the ocean is dead, find tresures is a good idea, but what about gather other materials in the deep ocean as well? similar to anya or starshard, why don't add other minerals under water, or even exotics plants, where you must use submarine skills to cut or find those.
-Add a Mineal how need the torpedo to break it
-Add more Corals how need Air cannon de clear the area a gather them

Well, hope some read it, see you later

Focslain
01-20-2016, 01:01 PM
3.- More thing in the Seas
Even with the next 2.5 patch, the rest of the ocean is dead, find tresures is a good idea, but what about gather other materials in the deep ocean as well? similar to anya or starshard, why don't add other minerals under water, or even exotics plants, where you must use submarine skills to cut or find those.
-Add a Mineal how need the torpedo to break it
-Add more Corals how need Air cannon de clear the area a gather them

Well, hope some read it, see you later

I would love to see more wild coral in the sea, I've found areas for pearls, but not coral and really there should be some.

Great list btw, would love to build this someday (especially the torpedo cannon/airtank)

Thenijiway
01-21-2016, 05:47 PM
also make submarines swim down faster pls

k thanks

AgentRed
01-31-2016, 03:39 AM
Its now been 2 major update and they still haven't really messed with subs besides getting 1 use.

Thenijiway
02-08-2016, 09:40 PM
so
subs got nerfed
(well i know my red sub did)

fix or nah?

AgentRed
02-09-2016, 02:32 PM
so
subs got nerfed
(well i know my red sub did)

fix or nah?

supposedly there's two different versions of submarines right now the one that is crafted before 2.5 and those after....

Thenijiway
02-10-2016, 02:13 AM
supposedly there's two different versions of submarines right now the one that is crafted before 2.5 and those after....

ive had my red sub for ages
and now they made it as bad as the other subs
i cri

Tanemahuta
04-15-2016, 02:50 PM
Could we please get more underwater functionality with the subs?

1. Better light source for treasure hunting and to see some of the amazing art already under the water.
2. Speed buff - Out of combat speed buff to enable underwater travel to those remote locations where again there is some amazing art work.
3. Pack storage - the ability to store 1 pack wouldn't make the sub op but would encourage more people to be under the water instead of just on it.

I think these 3 simple things would make owning a sub more desirable to a lot more people

Krison
05-08-2016, 02:43 PM
So yeah, about that oxygen tank... two breathing hoses but only one person gets the buff. Kinda makes a two-seater sub pointless. This above all would be a nice suggestion to have put in. If not both getting the buff when the driver uses the skill, then let the passenger have access to the skill button as well when mounted.

Orio
05-22-2016, 06:22 AM
Hello.

One important update on the topic. I can confirm that new Chrome submarine has been ninja-fixed during last few patches.

http://slayershrine.wz.cz/chromesub.jpg

Base swim speed on tooltip is now 6,5m/s and as you can see on screenshot its also true for swimming on water surface. Below water surface its 6,0m/s.

Its not known in which patch past 2.5 ths change took place, I noticed it two days ago. Please verify also other submarines.

perceneige
05-24-2016, 10:40 AM
(i am french sorry for my english)
for me the first problem is that they are too slow, if it makes sense, is it normal that a personn with palm dipped can go faster than another on a submarine?

it's like if a guy run faster than a mount.....

tunguska
07-26-2017, 06:40 AM
we really need a fix for the subs
trion doesn't even answer on this
@muzzy please any word

SteWarlock
07-24-2018, 06:39 AM
Another year passed - lets try this again:


Please fix the submarines!



Passengers still can't breathe!
Needs immunity to Abyssal Debuff.
Better lights needed.
Speed is still too slow.


There are some fantastic posts in this thread with well thought out suggestions and there has been no response to them at all.

Ashorai
07-10-2019, 06:30 PM
Bump! Still

Daymio
07-11-2019, 04:53 AM
Already fixed! Get (BUY!) a deathmaw mount aka crocodile and swim with 10+ m/s !

Shamend
11-12-2019, 02:34 PM
Would be nice if the Torpedos would deal more than 300 dmg for 3 steel ammo