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View Full Version : [REQUEST] Archery is underpowered [UPDATED: 1/13]



Celestrata Bloodsong
10-30-2015, 02:45 PM
1/13 Update -- Archery changes will still be made with Update 2.5, and we will wait on sending any additional feedback to XL until after Bloodsong's launch. Again, while we normally stay away from offering feedback on class balance changes, we will keep our eye on this one and continue to let XL know the community's opinions on NA/EU balance.

Description: Many players have commented that they feel Archery is currently in an underpowered state.

Status: Trion normally does not push or champion class balance changes to XL. Their team possesses members of staff who only handle class and statistical balance, putting them in a better place to measure balance than our team.

However, we have discussed the community's feelings regarding Archery to them, and they have informed us that there are changes coming to Archery in Update 2.5. Currently, we are scheduled to receive Update 2.5 in late January.

Trion will not be making additional changes to the class balance beyond XL's modifications. The current class changes the KR region received will be the same changes we will receive.

Kalli Matthews
10-30-2015, 04:20 PM
maybe u should think a bit about what archery is. basically it is the fight from a distance. if u (have to) use melee or magic skills, then u r no archer. considering this, then archery is underpowered as fk compared to melee and magic classes. u may go count urself if u want. while melee and magic classes have more then a dozen attack skills in 3 skill trees, there r just 9 ranged attack skills in 2 skill trees for archers. and if u also consider that for an archer moving is essentially for surviving, u can shorten the list of attack skills down to 6. furthermore, archers basically have no cc or counter-cc so they r helpless in a melee cc-combo or a nearly endless cc from a magic user that gives him enough time to cast his hardhitting spells. archery doesnt need a little tweak or buff every here and there. it needs a complete rework.

Kav
10-30-2015, 04:42 PM
http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?247276-Archery-The-Advantage-of-50-of-your-attacks-Avoided
http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?216418-Archers-Unite


For those wondering what Archery changes 2.5 brings ...

Charged Bolt - Damage Buffed, CD increased by 1s, +25% combo effect added to stunned targets.
Toxic Shot/Missile Rain/Concussive Shot have their damage buffed.
Concussive Shot deals +51% more damage if cast during Feral Mark - Deadeye will be useful now.
Endless Arrow combo's to deal more damage against bleeding targets.

Archery 2nd Passive - Crit rate buffed from 3% to 5%.

Archery skills will reduce Block/Evasion by 0.5% for every shot negated WHILE feral mark is active - Cap 15%.
Trip from Feral Explosion (30 stacks) increased from 1.5s to 2s.

Linkthehobo
10-30-2015, 04:57 PM
You know what would help archery a bunch? Re-adding the Synthesis system for every costume in the game, opening up new stat items and playstyles through increased speed, penetration, and pvp stats that a player can work towards upgrading and obtaining.

Malekin
10-30-2015, 06:22 PM
You know what would help archery a bunch? Re-adding the Synthesis system for every costume in the game, opening up new stat items and playstyles through increased speed, penetration, and pvp stats that a player can work towards upgrading and obtaining.

This is the real nub. Archers are affected by the lack of costume stats which only exists in Trions version. XL bases class balance based on their version which includes these stats. Ergo Trion themselves have unbalanced the classes with their decision to remove all costume stats.

elgen
10-30-2015, 06:49 PM
This is the real nub. Archers are affected by the lack of costume stats which only exists in Trions version. XL bases class balance based on their version which includes these stats. Ergo Trion themselves have unbalanced the classes with their decision to remove all costume stats.

That is a bit off they did not remove costume buffs for just archery it was a crossed the board. you can say custom buffs would make archery better but it would make every class better so it's rather mute. You can also argue by the same token the trion added animation locks that Korea does not have and because they do not have it they do not balance the classes around it. Yet when they did patch in the Korean version most people had a fit and demanded it be changed back.

elgen
10-30-2015, 07:04 PM
Description: Many players have commented that they feel Archery is currently in an underpowered state.

Status: Trion normally does not push or champion class balance changes to XL. Their team possesses members of staff who only handle class and statistical balance, putting them in a better place to measure balance than our team.

However, we have discussed the community's feelings regarding Archery to them, and they have informed us that there are changes coming to Archery in Update 2.5. Currently, we are scheduled to receive Update 2.5 in late January.

Trion will not be making additional changes to the class balance beyond XL's modifications. The current class changes the KR region received will be the same changes we will receive.

most people get that you guys can make class changes like that. But what you want to know from some one who discussed the class with xlgames is WHY? There has been multiplay changes to the class since open beta and no one has ever bothered to explain why. You guys have discussed the class with xlgames so tell us what they intend for it archetype and mechanic's wise.

Tammuz
10-31-2015, 02:16 AM
the ballence issue with archery in the NA version of the game will unfortunately continue to be an issue until trion and XL games realize that removing stats from costumes does NOT effect all classes equally.

missing 800 armor penetration is devestating to archers right now at the upper echelons of play. mele on the other hand notices the loss of this armor penetration less so for a couple of reasons:
1) mele has 2k armor pen on critical hits anyhow thanks to battlerage passive
2) mele classes have access to spears, which are very powerful (actually overpowered) in that their proc is to ignore 100% of armor for next hit.

in fact, shields at upper levels with their "bonus" +defense on equip that got added in a while back, would seem to be ballenced entirely around the assumption that archers and mele ARE running this defense penetration.

due to the lack of this however, light armor classes are too easily able to mitigate damage by equiping a shield and getting a high amount of PDef. Archers should be able to penetrate their PDef to a significant degree and deal decent damage to them. instead shields and indeed PDef on cloth reduces far too much damage due to the lack of this stat.

until they enable people to access the missing stats, archery will remain underpowered in our version of the game especially as people approach higher and higher gear scores

Tammuz
10-31-2015, 02:21 AM
That is a bit off they did not remove costume buffs for just archery it was a crossed the board. you can say custom buffs would make archery better but it would make every class better so it's rather mute. You can also argue by the same token the trion added animation locks that Korea does not have and because they do not have it they do not balance the classes around it. Yet when they did patch in the Korean version most people had a fit and demanded it be changed back.

see my post above, this idea that "loss of costume stats effects everyone equally" is a myth that needs to be dispelled and quickly so that we can move on to the next question: how to fix it.

I agree trion should NOT have significant ballance differences from other regions, instead the answer to ballance lies in getting the stats of characters in our region as close as possible to the korean version.

if you look at the stats on the costumes there are definatly classes, builds, and strats that benefit much more than others.

SakuraCalleil
11-02-2015, 09:47 AM
Personally don't see why they need additional changes. Archery was overpowered, was then over tuned down and is now (well, in 2.5) back to *normal*. The days of ArcheryAge are gone guys, no more killing Abolishers before they reach you.

Gentatsu
11-02-2015, 05:57 PM
Personally don't see why they need additional changes. Archery was overpowered, was then over tuned down and is now (well, in 2.5) back to *normal*. The days of ArcheryAge are gone guys, no more killing Abolishers before they reach you.

heh, aint played a archer latley have you.. pure archers cant even kill a cloth wearing caster. Everyone in my guild has dropped archery and gone to a plate wearing melee class because of the over nerfing. While the casters can just spam gods whip and fireballs and take me out in no time.

but alas, nm. Since everyone seems to be happy with never playing archer again.

mikroman
11-03-2015, 05:36 AM
If you have trade pack and you are not archer you are easy target. Ganker troll archer can hit you from 26-28 (or more?) meters and you have near 0% chance to hit back. Or you have 1 -1 skills and long cd. No. Archery is not underpowered. or you have to rework "basic attack" or give archers other nocd skill maybe. (slower attack and harder damages).

Drake Luso
11-03-2015, 05:51 AM
If you have trade pack and you are not archer you are easy target. Ganker troll archer can hit you from 26-28 (or more?) meters and you have near 0% chance to hit back. Or you have 1 -1 skills and long cd. No. Archery is not underpowered. or you have to rework "basic attack" or give archers other nocd skill maybe. (slower attack and harder damages).

Then ur saying that the viability of archery rest in ganking traders that eventually risk entering pvp zones :)
hmm just wondering if the trader is a paladin, healer or plate well geared with healing skills... after u try to steal his packs without sucess you go make yourselg a trade run to pay for the mana pots u spent XD

mikroman
11-03-2015, 06:04 AM
Then ur saying that the viability of archery rest in ganking traders that eventually risk entering pvp zones :)
hmm just wondering if the trader is a paladin, healer or plate well geared with healing skills... after u try to steal his packs without sucess you go make yourselg a trade run to pay for the mana pots u spent XD

No. Archer has long range attack and fast movement speed (no cast times). if you want to kill tank.. Good Luck! This is not "unique problem". I attacked healer or cloth-magic tanky enemy. We fight 5-6 minutes and nobody win. Full tank = low damage. No mana = no win. You have to pay more... Marketplace based users can do better damage. +500-1000 eq points and tons of gold buffs are good "extra chances". Or you can chose vulnerable targets. :D

StrappedBunny
11-03-2015, 10:14 AM
archery would be fine if there wasn't a -20% damage within 8 meters when most classes have permanent sustainable gap closers where they are continuously fighting within the 8 meter range. ranged attacks should hit less damage then mele as they can hit from further away but i don't see why there is a penalty for fighting in close range as well. why don't mages have the 8 meter debuff as well so their skills hit 20% less damage within 8 meters on skills that are ranged? why? cus it just doesn't make sense lol. please ask XL to remove it from archery as well.

Thenijiway
11-04-2015, 04:49 AM
The new archery is kinda really bad
But also at the same time still really good

Most people that try to kill me do almost no damage at all
Like as in I have 1k defence and take a little bit of damage

But very high end gear can still 3 hit me

Tiomun
11-05-2015, 02:07 PM
No offense to the XL team who handles class balance, but so far their decisions to keep nerfing archery clearly shows that a handful of people who run a few tests are in no way a better judge than the entire community of archers who almost all agree that archery is broken.

I mean really, who came up with the idea to take the ranged damage stacking off of Stalkers Mark. Its a RANGED skill! It doesn't make any sense. Archery was already bad while it still had the ranged damage stacking, and is only worse off without it. And were being told to have faith and trust that XL will make food decisions when it comes to archery. Call me skeptical, but I have a feeling 2.5 is not going to help in any way. Just from reading the increased cool downs and cast times. I cant see this ending well

World of Warcraft nerfed my main speck to the point of it not being enjoyable to play so I left and came here. I am concerned that f 2.5 doesn't improve archery, that I have wasted a lot of time and money on this game building a speck that will never be improved.

Focslain
11-05-2015, 02:17 PM
I mean really, who came up with the idea to take the ranged damage stacking off of Stalkers Mark. Its a RANGED skill! It doesn't make any sense.

Stalker's Mark is a Shadowplay skill, based the rest of the skill tree which is mostly MELEE, having a ranged bonus was a bit odd taking the tree into account. Plus the change was that the 20% ranged attack buff was removed and now the end damage hit stacks off ALL attacks instead of the just ranged as it was originally.

Now Stalker marks works with the skills of it's parent tree and others giving it more versatility for the lose of a buff to a single attack type.

Tiomun
11-05-2015, 03:56 PM
Stalker's Mark is a Shadowplay skill, based the rest of the skill tree which is mostly MELEE, having a ranged bonus was a bit odd taking the tree into account. Plus the change was that the 20% ranged attack buff was removed and now the end damage hit stacks off ALL attacks instead of the just ranged as it was originally.

Now Stalker marks works with the skills of it's parent tree and others giving it more versatility for the lose of a buff to a single attack type.

Toxic shot is, and Stalkers Mark used to be some of the strongest bow skills in the game, and both still make up about 1/4 of all ranged bow attacks in the entire game.

When we say archery we mean it in a broad sense, not just the one specific skill tree since there is no viable build in this game that relies 100% on only one skill tree.

Stalkers mark inflicts RANGED damage which is calculated from your RANGED attack, And the skill can only be used if you have a RANGED weapon equipped. Not to mention even after the nerf the stacking damage still receives a 20% reduction if the target is within 8m. But yeah I can totally see how that's clearly a MELEE skill, just like every single other skill in the game that's only limited to the basic concept of its parent tree.

Edwardo
11-06-2015, 01:04 PM
It would be nice to see more archery changes than what we see coming, imo.

Kav
11-06-2015, 03:41 PM
http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?247276-Archery-The-Advantage-of-50-of-your-attacks-Avoided
Straight to the point of WHY you see more "Buff Archery" threads than any other class. Refer to Post #1 and #10.
http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?216418-Archers-Unite
^ This second link is a collection of posts I recommend anyone interested in the true flaws of Archery to give a read to without experiencing heated discussions/flame baits as most other threads tend to derail from. Also invaluable information for anyone stille spec'd into archery alongside helpful tips

SkullMonkey
11-07-2015, 11:39 AM
Hello Trion/XL games.

So obviously due to this thread there is a great need to improve archery in NA/EU zones. Even in Korea, kooncoon himself has said that archery is nerfed to the point where most ppl in KR don't even play archer builds. But in NA/EU this problem is made much worse by the fact that we can't kite properly due to the endless arrows workaround that we have to use because of variable ping due to players being from various time zones (EU, australia, brazil, china, korea etc.) Because of this workaround archers can't kite properly.

So with that in mind here are some subtle buffs/changes that can be made to archery to help bring it back in line for NA/EU markets.


Solution 1)

Allow animation cancelling on endless arrows for all movement and skill shots such as teleport, dropback, mirror warp, toxic shot, stalkers mark, charged bolt, piercing shot, boneyard and snare.
reinstate the 20% damage bonus to stalkers mark but make it ranged damage only and add 1000 physical defense penetration OR 1000 ranged focus
Make focus directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks
Make Defense penetration directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks (Note: this one most likely is already in place but just in case it isn't equivalent, it should be made equal to the defense penetration bonus given to melee)


Solution 2)

Allow animation cancelling on endless arrows for ONLY teleport, dropback, mirror warp and behind enemy lines.
Adjust the damage from endless arrows to be in line with the damage done by mana stars. Mana stars has roughly the same attack speed as endless arrows and it does MUCH more damage and can't be mitigated easily. Bringing endless arrows in line with mana stars will create an immediate improvement.
Make focus directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks
Make Defense penetration directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks (Note: this one most likely is already in place but just in case it isn't equivalent, it should be made equal to the defense penetration bonus given to melee)



I feel that either of these solutions are subtle enough to improve archery enough to where it can compete with the other Main DPS classes without being too overpowered.

Kav
11-07-2015, 04:13 PM
Hello Trion/XL games.

So obviously due to this thread there is a great need to improve archery in NA/EU zones. Even in Korea, kooncoon himself has said that archery is nerfed to the point where most ppl in KR don't even play archer builds. But in NA/EU this problem is made much worse by the fact that we can't kite properly due to the endless arrows workaround that we have to use because of variable ping due to players being from various time zones (EU, australia, brazil, china, korea etc.) Because of this workaround archers can't kite properly.

So with that in mind here are some subtle buffs/changes that can be made to archery to help bring it back in line for NA/EU markets.


Solution 1)

Allow animation cancelling on endless arrows for all movement and skill shots such as teleport, dropback, mirror warp, toxic shot, stalkers mark, charged bolt, piercing shot, boneyard and snare.
reinstate the 20% damage bonus to stalkers mark but make it ranged damage only and add 1000 physical defense penetration OR 1000 ranged focus
Make focus directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks
Make Defense penetration directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks (Note: this one most likely is already in place but just in case it isn't equivalent, it should be made equal to the defense penetration bonus given to melee)


Solution 2)

Allow animation cancelling on endless arrows for ONLY teleport, dropback, mirror warp and behind enemy lines.
Adjust the damage from endless arrows to be in line with the damage done by mana stars. Mana stars has roughly the same attack speed as endless arrows and it does MUCH more damage and can't be mitigated easily. Bringing endless arrows in line with mana stars will create an immediate improvement.
Make focus directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks
Make Defense penetration directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks (Note: this one most likely is already in place but just in case it isn't equivalent, it should be made equal to the defense penetration bonus given to melee)



I feel that either of these solutions are subtle enough to improve archery enough to where it can compete with the other Main DPS classes without being too overpowered.

Reading your post made me realize something, they don't have to add in something "new" to fix archery, but rather revert the changes they've made to the tree overtime since launch.

I.E - Giving back bloodthirst, stalker's mark 20% dmg increase, piercing shot's interrupt, and reverting the base skill damage nerf's since 1.0 ...
You have the coding at hand, won't need to add anything new - and you'd distinguish yourself as the only server to have a base of archery players.

LOokc
11-09-2015, 04:18 PM
THAT is the best post on how to fix archery i have seen. They need some love that is for sure. Please XL saves us from the sea of darkrunners and give archery a big ol boost

Chaarlie
11-10-2015, 05:49 PM
Solution 1)

Allow animation cancelling on endless arrows for all movement and skill shots such as teleport, dropback, mirror warp, toxic shot, stalkers mark, charged bolt, piercing shot, boneyard and snare.
reinstate the 20% damage bonus to stalkers mark but make it ranged damage only and add 1000 physical defense penetration OR 1000 ranged focus
Make focus directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks
Make Defense penetration directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks (Note: this one most likely is already in place but just in case it isn't equivalent, it should be made equal to the defense penetration bonus given to melee)


Solution 2)

Allow animation cancelling on endless arrows for ONLY teleport, dropback, mirror warp and behind enemy lines.
Adjust the damage from endless arrows to be in line with the damage done by mana stars. Mana stars has roughly the same attack speed as endless arrows and it does MUCH more damage and can't be mitigated easily. Bringing endless arrows in line with mana stars will create an immediate improvement.
Make focus directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks
Make Defense penetration directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks (Note: this one most likely is already in place but just in case it isn't equivalent, it should be made equal to the defense penetration bonus given to melee)



I feel that either of these solutions are subtle enough to improve archery enough to where it can compete with the other Main DPS classes without being too overpowered.


*Applause* Couldn't agree more with this post. Just the improvement in how kiting is done and a few changes for Focus and defense penetration would make such a big difference for us Archers. Kudos to you, bro.

Tammuz
11-11-2015, 08:44 PM
Hello Trion/XL games.

So obviously due to this thread there is a great need to improve archery in NA/EU zones. Even in Korea, kooncoon himself has said that archery is nerfed to the point where most ppl in KR don't even play archer builds. But in NA/EU this problem is made much worse by the fact that we can't kite properly due to the endless arrows workaround that we have to use because of variable ping due to players being from various time zones (EU, australia, brazil, china, korea etc.) Because of this workaround archers can't kite properly.

So with that in mind here are some subtle buffs/changes that can be made to archery to help bring it back in line for NA/EU markets.


Solution 1)

Allow animation cancelling on endless arrows for all movement and skill shots such as teleport, dropback, mirror warp, toxic shot, stalkers mark, charged bolt, piercing shot, boneyard and snare.
reinstate the 20% damage bonus to stalkers mark but make it ranged damage only and add 1000 physical defense penetration OR 1000 ranged focus
Make focus directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks
Make Defense penetration directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks (Note: this one most likely is already in place but just in case it isn't equivalent, it should be made equal to the defense penetration bonus given to melee)


Solution 2)

Allow animation cancelling on endless arrows for ONLY teleport, dropback, mirror warp and behind enemy lines.
Adjust the damage from endless arrows to be in line with the damage done by mana stars. Mana stars has roughly the same attack speed as endless arrows and it does MUCH more damage and can't be mitigated easily. Bringing endless arrows in line with mana stars will create an immediate improvement.
Make focus directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks
Make Defense penetration directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks (Note: this one most likely is already in place but just in case it isn't equivalent, it should be made equal to the defense penetration bonus given to melee)



I feel that either of these solutions are subtle enough to improve archery enough to where it can compete with the other Main DPS classes without being too overpowered.

actually reasonable solutions.

defense penetration DOES AFAIK effect ranged attacks just like mele attacks... the difference between here and KR/RU versions is that archers are missing up to 800 pdef penetration at high gear scores that they normally get from costumes. this means that not only do they do poor damage ("1, 1, 1, 1,...") on plate wearers (which are their counter class and they are suppoed to do very poor damage against), but even lighter armored leather and cloth+shield wearers are able to get enough PDef to mitigate their damage.

while its true the 800 pdef pen helps mele some as well, its no where near to the boost that archers get from it as typically 800 ignore pdef or not, if a mele class has "caught" you the archer and is landing his big dps skills on you, your gonna loose wether he has another 800pdef pen or not.

Unfortunately the party line appears to be the assertion that "all classes and playstyles are effected equally by the loss of costume stats".

Spac
11-12-2015, 04:01 AM
actually reasonable solutions.

defense penetration DOES AFAIK effect ranged attacks just like mele attacks... the difference between here and KR/RU versions is that archers are missing up to 800 pdef penetration at high gear scores that they normally get from costumes. this means that not only do they do poor damage ("1, 1, 1, 1,...") on plate wearers (which are their counter class and they are suppoed to do very poor damage against), but even lighter armored leather and cloth+shield wearers are able to get enough PDef to mitigate their damage.

while its true the 800 pdef pen helps mele some as well, its no where near to the boost that archers get from it as typically 800 ignore pdef or not, if a mele class has "caught" you the archer and is landing his big dps skills on you, your gonna loose wether he has another 800pdef pen or not.

Unfortunately the party line appears to be the assertion that "all classes and playstyles are effected equally by the loss of costume stats".

I'm not entirely sure how the KR/RU costumes work. Is it every costume that can upgraded indiviually or are some better than others? If they are not then removing costume stats makes zero sense, since everybody has atleast 1 costume and if not can buy it for 200g on the AH.

Xetic
11-12-2015, 04:42 AM
there are better ones then others are :) guess why the dragon costume is so expensive :P

Spac
11-12-2015, 04:57 AM
there are better ones then others are :) guess why the dragon costume is so expensive :P

But couldn't we just make every costume the same statswise?

Kav
11-12-2015, 05:14 PM
actually reasonable solutions.

defense penetration DOES AFAIK effect ranged attacks just like mele attacks... the difference between here and KR/RU versions is that archers are missing up to 800 pdef penetration at high gear scores that they normally get from costumes. this means that not only do they do poor damage ("1, 1, 1, 1,...") on plate wearers (which are their counter class and they are suppoed to do very poor damage against), but even lighter armored leather and cloth+shield wearers are able to get enough PDef to mitigate their damage.

while its true the 800 pdef pen helps mele some as well, its no where near to the boost that archers get from it as typically 800 ignore pdef or not, if a mele class has "caught" you the archer and is landing his big dps skills on you, your gonna loose wether he has another 800pdef pen or not.

Unfortunately the party line appears to be the assertion that "all classes and playstyles are effected equally by the loss of costume stats".

Testing was done, *surprise* It affects Ranged attacks FAR LESS than it does Melee.
And by far, I mean - hardly at ALL.
http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?216418-Archers-Unite
Buried in there somewhere just like everything else Archery related.

Also, these are the CONFIRMED Archery changes KR is getting in 2.5
Hopefully we will get all of these too!

Charged Bolt - Damage Buffed, CD increased by 1s, +25% combo effect added to stunned targets.
Toxic Shot/Missile Rain/Concussive Shot have their damage buffed.
Concussive Shot deals +51% more damage if cast during Feral Mark - Deadeye will be useful now.
Endless Arrow combo's to deal more damage against bleeding targets.

Archery 2nd Passive - Crit rate buffed from 3% to 5%.

Archery skills will reduce Block/Evasion by 0.5% for every shot negated WHILE feral mark is active - Cap 15%.
Trip from Feral Explosion (30 stacks) increased from 1.5s to 2s.

Kav
11-13-2015, 04:58 PM
I know y'all didn't just remove the "Archers Unite" thread ...


RIGHT?

Tammuz
11-13-2015, 06:41 PM
I didnt do it!

but anyhow, id take results that show armor pen dosent effect ranged attacks very critically... every archer i know is trying to stack as much of it as possible and the damage they do seems to be directly related to the amount of armor pen they have at higher gear scores.

also this is why theyve recieved sucessive nerfs in Kr and Ru versions: because with the extra 800 armor pen they crossed the lines in previous versions into very overpowered in those versions of the game... they ended up over nerfing them slightly in those versions by 2.0 (in our version they basically now do essentially no damage to anyone with a shield or leather+) so they got a small boost in 2.5 in Kr...

overall i still think the missing peices to our class ballence system are the stats on armor and we will remain with class imbalences until such a time as the community convinces trion and XL games to add these back in as they were in Alpha

Kav
11-13-2015, 07:10 PM
I didnt do it!

but anyhow, id take results that show armor pen dosent effect ranged attacks very critically... every archer i know is trying to stack as much of it as possible and the damage they do seems to be directly related to the amount of armor pen they have at higher gear scores.

also this is why theyve recieved sucessive nerfs in Kr and Ru versions: because with the extra 800 armor pen they crossed the lines in previous versions into very overpowered in those versions of the game... they ended up over nerfing them slightly in those versions by 2.0 (in our version they basically now do essentially no damage to anyone with a shield or leather+) so they got a small boost in 2.5 in Kr...

overall i still think the missing peices to our class ballence system are the stats on armor and we will remain with class imbalences until such a time as the community convinces trion and XL games to add these back in as they were in Alpha

Archers were long overnerf'd prior to 2.0 by the way, and it's not a lack of armor pen that's the issue - or that armor pen doesn't affect us at an equal level. It's focus that scales better with melee, regardless - the 2.5 buffs should help a bit - but they need to address how archers proc Feral Mark aside from having the V2 T4 Shortspear being the only mobile option we have.

Jahmic
11-14-2015, 07:19 AM
I know y'all didn't just remove the "Archers Unite" thread ...


RIGHT?

Seriously...40+ pages of useful info just gone.

I know there's an official thread now, but why not moderate those off topic posts instead of destroying what became a class compendium?

Please bring back that thread...hopefully it was unapproved and not physically deleted...archers need that info.

Tetrax
11-14-2015, 08:34 AM
I know y'all didn't just remove the "Archers Unite" thread ...


RIGHT?

Kav, i changed initial post stating imma do a overhaul,
got ticket saying i was doing spam ?? o.O and they removed whole thread.

Anyways i sent a mail to trion.

My heart is broken man, they stole my baby! :(

Mystriss
11-14-2015, 02:13 PM
:( on the post getting deleted.

idk what MMOS have against archery, but they always seem to mess it up in one direction or the other. Tis been an issue in pretty much every game I've played over the past 10 years. I guess I understand it to a point, a bunch of the players want easier classes to play, but it's pretty easy to go overboard with Archers being OP because of the kiting then the other classes rage. It's difficult to balance a bow. I'm not even sure what to do with Archers in AA because, honestly, there's really lot a lot of class balance in AA PvP (I hate PvE so idk about that area at all) to begin with so there's not really anything to balance archers "to" ... I get destroyed, and I've been playing archer hard-core pvp for 10 years now, on the other hand I'm not particular on the STD and gear factor's prevalent in AA PvP so I pretty much gave up on the PvP. Before Auroria launch it was a lot more fun, less GS mattering, less STDs, and I had my gamer buddies back then. Either way, I'm not sure they can do too much for Archers until they get balance on the other classes, Archers kind of need to be balanced last because it's a different niche. Not that we want to hear that of course :/

Kav
11-14-2015, 04:47 PM
Kav, i changed initial post stating imma do a overhaul,
got ticket saying i was doing spam ?? o.O and they removed whole thread.

Anyways i sent a mail to trion.

My heart is broken man, they stole my baby! :(

We'll get her back ;_;
At least in this case they won't have to ask XL Games about getting our thread back because these forums are completely in their control.

... RIGHT?!@



:( on the post getting deleted.

idk what MMOS have against archery, but they always seem to mess it up in one direction or the other. Tis been an issue in pretty much every game I've played over the past 10 years. I guess I understand it to a point, a bunch of the players want easier classes to play, but it's pretty easy to go overboard with Archers being OP because of the kiting then the other classes rage. It's difficult to balance a bow. I'm not even sure what to do with Archers in AA because, honestly, there's really lot a lot of class balance in AA PvP (I hate PvE so idk about that area at all) to begin with so there's not really anything to balance archers "to" ... I get destroyed, and I've been playing archer hard-core pvp for 10 years now, on the other hand I'm not particular on the STD and gear factor's prevalent in AA PvP so I pretty much gave up on the PvP. Before Auroria launch it was a lot more fun, less GS mattering, less STDs, and I had my gamer buddies back then. Either way, I'm not sure they can do too much for Archers until they get balance on the other classes, Archers kind of need to be balanced last because it's a different niche. Not that we want to hear that of course :/

You definitely have a point there, the only MMO I've seen where Archery wasn't a gimped class was in Dragon's Nest - and if you played that you know Archery was basically another term for "Point Blank In Your Face Kicking You In The Air Till You Died" - AKA not really archery at all xD

Then again with the changes we get to 2.5, although they aren't game changing it's definitely an appreciated thought that we'd get some love sent out way =)

Plus watching the Dropback+Fireball and Gods Whip reactions on forums takes a lil of the pain away too ... ;)

Now if only they could bug out BR's tree a little bit and I'll forget all about my archery woes! - Especially the one where they took our wonderful thread away from us ...

Jahmic
11-15-2015, 07:34 AM
There were quite a few off topic posts discussing other upcoming MMOs in the removed thread..they popped up right before the thread was deleted. My guess is that they deleted the entire thread instead of moderating individual posts.

Please bring it back

Kav
11-15-2015, 08:00 AM
There were quite a few off topic posts discussing other upcoming MMOs in the removed thread..they popped up right before the thread was deleted. My guess is that they deleted the entire thread instead of moderating individual posts.

Please bring it back

Don't think so, the timing was just as Tetrax was changing around initial post where he got a ticket telling him it got removed for spam.

Either way, it's not a matter of if they bring it back - rather when they bring it back ....

RIGHT?!@#@

Culland
11-16-2015, 08:34 AM
Concussive Shot deals +51% more damage if cast during Feral Mark - Deadeye will be useful now.


The images that were circulated of the tooltips for the new concussion shot clearly indicated that it was Feral Aura that increases the damage of concussion shot, not Feral Mark. Feral Mark is on us, Feral Aura is on our target.

Kav
11-17-2015, 08:19 AM
The images that were circulated of the tooltips for the new concussion shot clearly indicated that it was Feral Aura that increases the damage of concussion shot, not Feral Mark. Feral Mark is on us, Feral Aura is on our target.

Would that mean the 51% combo damage applies to the AoE of Conc Shot if it was cast on an enemy with at least 1 stack of feral aura?

Culland
11-17-2015, 10:43 AM
Would that mean the 51% combo damage applies to the AoE of Conc Shot if it was cast on an enemy with at least 1 stack of feral aura?

That would be nice, but I doubt it. I would assume the debuff itself is what triggers the extra damage, so if you hit 5 people with conc shot, three with feral aura debuff and 2 without, then the extra damage would be applied to those three and not the other two, even if your target was one of the three.

That is just an opinion however, could entirely be wrong I have seen no information one way or the other.

Bloodtau
11-17-2015, 11:00 PM
Archery is not underpowered, if it gets buffed remove the movement and instant casts.

Guunslinger
11-18-2015, 04:59 AM
Archery is not underpowered, if it gets buffed remove the movement and instant casts.

Sure, you want a mars with that ? :D

plznosalt
11-18-2015, 06:46 AM
the amount of gear u need as an archer to do "decent" (really bad) pvp damage is insane compared to melee or mage classes the damage for example on Arc Lightning compared to Concussion shot (both skills with roughly same cast time) is ridiculous.

mikroman
11-18-2015, 07:22 AM
the amount of gear u need as an archer to do "decent" (really bad) pvp damage is insane compared to melee or mage classes the damage for example on Arc Lightning compared to Concussion shot (both skills with roughly same cast time) is ridiculous.

Which skill? Concussive Arrow? (http://archeagedatabase.net/us/skill/11933/)
1,5 sec cast time and 6m area effect (+3,5 sec shackling) vs 2 second cast time arc lightning (http://archeagedatabase.net/us/skill/10670/) and single target (2m shock) damage.
Yeah. Same... close enough

evensin
11-18-2015, 12:31 PM
I've been wanting to do it for sometime so now would be an appropriate time to show the simple math of archery versus melee versus mage. In this exercise we'll start with a baseline of 1,000 Attack Power and adjust each category appropriately based on gear. Now some of these adjustments are made to the base aren't exactly going to be the way it's calculated to reach 1,000, in other words it's retroactively but it'll still represent the true comparison between the three.

Weaponry
Range:
Divine Wandering Hawk 492.3 DPS

Melee:
Divine Heartseeker 569.3 DPS

Mage:
Divine Scoundrel's Moon 607.2 DPS (M. Attack Power)

Now we do a side by side relative comparison and apply the percentage to the 1,000 base we stated we'd use, this gives us a sense of how the weaponry would make the 1,000 attack power point more or less easily obtainable. We use the highest as our 100% point indicator, 607.2.

Mage:
Comparison result : 100% attack strength = 1,000 DPS

Melee:
Comparison result : 93.7% attack strength = 937 DPS

Archery:
Comparison result : 81.1% attack strength @ 8m< ~64.9% = 811 DPS @ 8m< 648.8 DPS

Jesus lets just stop there. The damage difference just based on weaponry is HUGE.

sloth
11-18-2015, 02:03 PM
Fix dropback+ flamebolt

Pancakes
11-18-2015, 02:37 PM
I've been wanting to do it for sometime so now would be an appropriate time to show the simple math of archery versus melee versus mage. In this exercise we'll start with a baseline of 1,000 Attack Power and adjust each category appropriately based on gear. Now some of these adjustments are made to the base aren't exactly going to be the way it's calculated to reach 1,000, in other words it's retroactively but it'll still represent the true comparison between the three.

Weaponry
Range:
Divine Wandering Hawk 492.3 DPS

Melee:
Divine Heartseeker 569.3 DPS

Mage:
Divine Scoundrel's Moon 607.2 DPS (M. Attack Power)

Now we do a side by side relative comparison and apply the percentage to the 1,000 base we stated we'd use, this gives us a sense of how the weaponry would make the 1,000 attack power point more or less easily obtainable. We use the highest as our 100% point indicator, 607.2.

Mage:
Comparison result : 100% attack strength = 1,000 DPS

Melee:
Comparison result : 93.7% attack strength = 937 DPS

Archery:
Comparison result : 81.1% attack strength @ 8m< ~64.9% = 811 DPS @ 8m< 648.8 DPS

Jesus lets just stop there. The damage difference just based on weaponry is HUGE.

http://i.imgur.com/bUOhktx.jpg

Kav
11-18-2015, 04:49 PM
Archery is not underpowered, if it gets buffed remove the movement and instant casts.

The sad part is, with how much of an emphasis they're putting on Feral Mark - Archers will NEED to utilize either Deadeye/Float to attain stacks as T4 V2 Shortspear passive isn't enough by itself. So in a sense, we are losing what was left of our mobility in return for being "slightly more relevant."


Sure, you want a mars with that ? :D
I'm sure he'd rather prefer a snickers.
/snicker


I've been wanting to do it for sometime so now would be an appropriate time to show the simple math of archery versus melee versus mage. In this exercise we'll start with a baseline of 1,000 Attack Power and adjust each category appropriately based on gear. Now some of these adjustments are made to the base aren't exactly going to be the way it's calculated to reach 1,000, in other words it's retroactively but it'll still represent the true comparison between the three.

Weaponry
Range:
Divine Wandering Hawk 492.3 DPS

Melee:
Divine Heartseeker 569.3 DPS

Mage:
Divine Scoundrel's Moon 607.2 DPS (M. Attack Power)

Now we do a side by side relative comparison and apply the percentage to the 1,000 base we stated we'd use, this gives us a sense of how the weaponry would make the 1,000 attack power point more or less easily obtainable. We use the highest as our 100% point indicator, 607.2.

Mage:
Comparison result : 100% attack strength = 1,000 DPS

Melee:
Comparison result : 93.7% attack strength = 937 DPS

Archery:
Comparison result : 81.1% attack strength @ 8m< ~64.9% = 811 DPS @ 8m< 648.8 DPS

Jesus lets just stop there. The damage difference just based on weaponry is HUGE.

It gets much worse, on top of having the lowest base numbers - we also get less than a quarter of what focus does to melee skills.
Why?
Because archers have mobility silly! *Don't look at BR's unlimited resettable gap closers, further giving them more mobility because Archers keep Parrying them due to focus hardly affecting our attacks*
Feral Mark now becoming relevant in 2.5 sort of denies that excuse because we'll need deadeye/float to attain those stacks - 1 of which lowers our Def/MR to 0.

evensin
11-18-2015, 09:00 PM
Holy ♥♥♥♥ I didn't even realize m. Atk was so high by comparison (lol highest in fact). I did this little comparison this morning while on breakfast. Now I have to ask, where the hell is the penalty for Mages? They have range.... They can be just as mobile with instant casts and back drop flame bolts. They don't even suffer avoidance.... The ridiculousness in the senseless mechanics design is mind boggling. I doubt Trion has any idea why the designers have made it this way and can shed some light, it'd be too much to expect that their smoke signals and message in the bottles to XL could ever explain so much idiocracy

Kav
11-18-2015, 10:27 PM
Holy ♥♥♥♥ I didn't even realize m. Atk was so high by comparison (lol highest in fact). I did this little comparison this morning while on breakfast. Now I have to ask, where the hell is the penalty for Mages? They have range.... They can be just as mobile with instant casts and back drop flame bolts. They don't even suffer avoidance.... The ridiculousness in the senseless mechanics design is mind boggling. I doubt Trion has any idea why the designers have made it this way and can shed some light, it'd be too much to expect that their smoke signals and message in the bottles to XL could ever explain so much idiocracy

Well if you compare Melee Skills to Mage Skills, they're both in a good position. Both sides are loaded with potential, it's JUST Archery that got the shortest stick of a different hand of short sticks.

evensin
11-19-2015, 09:42 AM
I'm hoping the Inc archery buffs are actually thought out. For how long it takes for things to change around here ... I'm prepared to just move on from incompetency central. Albion looks pretty open world. Like a Moba style mmo, kinda sexy

See that Trion? Get XL off their ♥♥♥♥♥ if you actually want this delicious money. Balance the game, stop breaking simple ♥♥♥♥ or in a publisher's case releasing broken ♥♥♥♥.

senzer
11-19-2015, 10:51 AM
I hope they soon do anything. I cant do any dmg to ppl. and a darkrunner can do TONS.as a ranger i need a bow. but some one put the t6 item i need to make my outlaw to banditking. on Levianthan. And we can never ever kill him.its kinda lame when you see other classes have t6 weapons. its hard when you have used 1year to get a ♥♥♥♥ty class

Kav
11-19-2015, 04:25 PM
I'm hoping the Inc archery buffs are actually thought out. For how long it takes for things to change around here ... I'm prepared to just move on from incompetency central. Albion looks pretty open world. Like a Moba style mmo, kinda sexy

See that Trion? Get XL off their ♥♥♥♥♥ if you actually want this delicious money. Balance the game, stop breaking simple ♥♥♥♥ or in a publisher's case releasing broken ♥♥♥♥.

Albion's a bit too toony for my liking - Blade&Soul is the only other potential I see worth giving a shot.

If that fails in it's openworld pvp aspect, I'm honestly considering Guild Wars 2 - It has the most loyal/happiest fanbase from any other MMO and outlasted them ALL. In exchange for B2P you get no Pay to Win aspects & an amazing/active community for GvG.

Bloodtau
11-19-2015, 10:16 PM
KAY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC8EgcaXAPE

Chum
11-20-2015, 02:58 AM
fix da archery plox

Focslain
11-20-2015, 10:23 AM
I've been wanting to do it for sometime so now would be an appropriate time to show the simple math of archery versus melee versus mage. In this exercise we'll start with a baseline of 1,000 Attack Power and adjust each category appropriately based on gear. Now some of these adjustments are made to the base aren't exactly going to be the way it's calculated to reach 1,000, in other words it's retroactively but it'll still represent the true comparison between the three.

Weaponry
Range:
Divine Wandering Hawk 492.3 DPS

Melee:
Divine Heartseeker 569.3 DPS

Mage:
Divine Scoundrel's Moon 607.2 DPS (M. Attack Power)

Now we do a side by side relative comparison and apply the percentage to the 1,000 base we stated we'd use, this gives us a sense of how the weaponry would make the 1,000 attack power point more or less easily obtainable. We use the highest as our 100% point indicator, 607.2.

Mage:
Comparison result : 100% attack strength = 1,000 DPS

Melee:
Comparison result : 93.7% attack strength = 937 DPS

Archery:
Comparison result : 81.1% attack strength @ 8m< ~64.9% = 811 DPS @ 8m< 648.8 DPS

Jesus lets just stop there. The damage difference just based on weaponry is HUGE.

I saw this a while ago, the dps of ranged vs melee for the same attack power is way out of balance. I haven't tested magic dps, but will tonight since I still have my scepter. But yeah, ranged dps is lower then melee by design it looks like.

Kav
11-20-2015, 04:43 PM
I saw this a while ago, the dps of ranged vs melee for the same attack power is way out of balance. I haven't tested magic dps, but will tonight since I still have my scepter. But yeah, ranged dps is lower then melee by design it looks like.

You're telling me..
Archery has the LOWEST CHANCE TO HIT our LOWEST DAMAGE/SCALING abilities across every main damage tree?
Oh it's by design, you say?
Carry on then. Nothing to see here.

Bloodtau
11-21-2015, 05:27 PM
Learn to play guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGKtcLPfXj4

Kav
11-21-2015, 09:51 PM
Learn to play guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGKtcLPfXj4

A. You're right, Archery is completely balanced after watching that raid vs raid battle Bloodtau, now these archers can stop whining and Trion can fix on the real issues of this game like fixing fireball.

B. What's that you say? The vid doesn't show anything meaningful except that Archer tabbing through clothies while still tickling them?

I wonder which opinion you'll go with.

VodkaTore
11-25-2015, 11:43 AM
A. You're right, Archery is completely balanced after watching that raid vs raid battle Bloodtau, now these archers can stop whining and Trion can fix on the real issues of this game like fixing fireball.

B. What's that you say? The vid doesn't show anything meaningful except that Archer tabbing through clothies while still tickling them?

I wonder which opinion you'll go with.

also, in russian and korean version costumes have stats, so they have ♥♥♥♥ tons of defense penetration with most leather costumes they literally rek clothies...
if you wanna see an archer with skills https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX4O90vPASY (the guy in that vid has around 800 rdps gale rings and lightning necklace and costume with stats so does tons of damage)

Bloodtau
12-05-2015, 11:55 AM
Yes archery does no damage look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiQKBh2SWxU

Cammo
12-05-2015, 06:01 PM
Yes archery does no damage look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiQKBh2SWxU

Now lets assume that most of those people were not < lvl 55 and/or ♥♥♥♥ty geared 55's. If you have ever played Archer @ 55, you'll find that snipe is insanely irritating to hit, it is a cast, it can be parried/blocked/evaded/small differences in elevation between you and the target can mean it goes completely over or under them/just miss with no visible reason as to why (always fun when they get dream ring debuff from snipe, but combat log doesn't even register it as actually hitting).

Now lets add in the whole reason this thread is here, the fact that toughness and raw defence, whether from shields or plate gear, still nullifies the damage of snipe, which is easily our hardest hitting skill, to the point that snipe also does nothing.

Never under value the importance of toughness and resilience honor gems if archers are causing you issues. Fill your gear with those and archers will hardly touch you.

chocobo
12-05-2015, 06:11 PM
Yes archery does no damage look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiQKBh2SWxU

You're dumb right? I mean.. you have to be xD. First of all, this video is 10 months old.... I dont even know why you thought posting this would help your argument. Second, you're comparing a russian version to our version l0l. And finally third, if you actually played an archer at higher tier against actual people who know how to gem, play and most importantly know what toughness is... then you'd probably also be smart enough not to post dumb things like this :).

Bloodtau
12-06-2015, 10:55 PM
You're dumb right? I mean.. you have to be xD. First of all, this video is 10 months old.... I dont even know why you thought posting this would help your argument. Second, you're comparing a russian version to our version l0l. And finally third, if you actually played an archer at higher tier against actual people who know how to gem, play and most importantly know what toughness is... then you'd probably also be smart enough not to post dumb things like this :).

all versions are same idiot down to the timer for mist-marrow, learn to play.

Spac
12-07-2015, 02:09 AM
all versions are same idiot down to the timer for mist-marrow, learn to play.

Wow if you think that all versions are the same then you are the idiot.

JemandLeNoob
12-07-2015, 04:18 AM
all versions are same idiot down to the timer for mist-marrow, learn to play.

Then show some videos from our version of the game, and not Russian or Korean..

DissentNotWelcome1
12-12-2015, 08:38 AM
Great information in this thread. Thanks to all that contributed. There are lots of factors that come into play when explaining the inferiority of Archers in ArcheAge. Aside from Focus and Defense Penetration having a fraction of the effectiveness that it does with Melee, there may be other factors that cause Archers to be severely more under-powered than other classes in NA/EU versus KR.

1: How exactly did the stat costumes effect the balance between each of the meta classes in KR?
2: What adjustments (if any) were made to compensate for the lack of stat costumes in the NA/EU versions?
NOTE: It seems that stat costumes did not effect each class equally. There have been KR players that state due to the absense of stat costumes, Archers take an even bigger hit in NA/EU. Also, things like global cool down and endless arrow differences are a big factor in how Archers function.

It feels like KR is balancing their classes with stat costumes in mind, but how does that effect us? Are the XL Games devs accounting for the absence of these stat costumes in our version of the game? Is there something we can do to compensate for this? Would it be a viable choice to introduce the stat costumes in-game rather than in a cash shop?

It would be nice to see community management presence in this thread, considering it has a lot of valid points and some constructive information in it. We have lots of information from the community that generate valid questions that could use definitive answers.

Here's to wishful thinking!
Edit: grammar/clarity


EDIT/PS: Anyone have definitive information regarding these claims? https://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/comments/3i0cux/archery_nerfed_further_in_25_with_video/cuciirc

Silica95
12-12-2015, 10:36 AM
Toughness interaction with endless arrow is the real issue here :&

The skill dmg isn't THAT bad, It could get a small boost - but its not the main issue atm.
seeing how you deal no damage at all to a CLOTH user with endless arrow is ******ed.
(Dealing low dmg vs plate is fine - but on plate its even worse when adding toughness)

I was playing Archery before and switched to a mage based class now - seeing how I could possible go to the kitchen and get something to drink vs equally geared Archers while not dropping halflife since they got no damage after using their main dmg abilites is a bit sad :/

thormond
12-15-2015, 03:42 AM
Yes archery does no damage look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiQKBh2SWxU

and this is how the actual archery damage looks against geared ppl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYrnNIr_6NE (divine t5 bow)

also for some reason there's too much of endgame bows on the AH lately:
https://i.gyazo.com/2ac8abf62b75c98bcb4c4f0e17b3fb8c.png

evidence speaks for itself

Delaque
12-16-2015, 06:04 AM
and this is how the actual archery damage looks against geared ppl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYrnNIr_6NE (divine t5 bow)

also for some reason there's too much of endgame bows on the AH lately:
https://i.gyazo.com/2ac8abf62b75c98bcb4c4f0e17b3fb8c.png

evidence speaks for itself

Ehh its hard to say much about the video because it is against a player with Vitalism and in plate So hes already tanky + he can out sustain you because he can heal they are nerfing Self healing in the future so that video isn't much evidence

mikroman
12-16-2015, 06:38 AM
Ehh its hard to say much about the video because it is against a player with Vitalism and in plate So hes already tanky + he can out sustain you because he can heal they are nerfing Self healing in the future so that video isn't much evidence

"magic tanky" character vs magic DPS character is same effect. Healer cuts the flaming tree when I attacked her. I attacked in 3 minutes and I can't hit down to 50% damage. Some seconds out of cc and she was in max health again. He walk away and I can't kill her. :)

SakuraCalleil
12-16-2015, 08:11 AM
Instead of buffing Archery, consider adding stats to the costumes (in the form of Armour pen/Agility on one of them, Spell pen/Int on the other).

thormond
12-16-2015, 11:53 AM
Ehh its hard to say much about the video because it is against a player with Vitalism and in plate So hes already tanky + he can out sustain you because he can heal they are nerfing Self healing in the future so that video isn't much evidence

oh okay so if someone with worse gear can outheal entirety of damage and be more mana efficient at it than damage dealer then it's somehow a fine design, noted

I wonder why battlerage/sorcery damage can't be mana-efficiently outhealed by any combination of gear on the same gearscore, but I guess that's balanced too because magic and melee are supposed to do damage while archery was created solely for forcing heal cooldowns

kadashnikov
12-17-2015, 09:58 AM
So here I am sitting in 7/7 gale and today I happened to notice the varying degree of crit rates.
Then I noticed that ranged crit rates are split between agility and intelligence.

The tool tip for agility shows that it increases ranged crit rate which is understandable.

http://i.imgur.com/kVxpmYj.png

But intelligence also increases ranged crit rate.

http://i.imgur.com/lFoFp9M.png

Even with 7/7 gale on, my ranged crit rate is only 70% of my melee crit rate.

http://i.imgur.com/wBPKc1I.png

That is also including 3% from the sharpshooting passive skill.

Also you have to take into the fact of honor frosts.
For Dual Wielders you can socket two 2% skill damage in your weapons for a total of 4%.
For 2-H wielders you can socket a 3% skill damage into your weapon.
For Ranged Attack you are limited to a 2% frost skill damage into your bow.

http://i.imgur.com/vmST2vI.png


Would it be possible to remove the ranged crit rate from intelligence and move it to agility?
Would it be possible for the Honorbold Sniper's Lunafrost to get a 1% bonus to be on par with 2-H weapons?

VodkaTore
12-23-2015, 03:32 AM
Great information in this thread. Thanks to all that contributed. There are lots of factors that come into play when explaining the inferiority of Archers in ArcheAge. Aside from Focus and Defense Penetration having a fraction of the effectiveness that it does with Melee, there may be other factors that cause Archers to be severely more under-powered than other classes in NA/EU versus KR.

1: How exactly did the stat costumes effect the balance between each of the meta classes in KR?
2: What adjustments (if any) were made to compensate for the lack of stat costumes in the NA/EU versions?
NOTE: It seems that stat costumes did not effect each class equally. There have been KR players that state due to the absense of stat costumes, Archers take an even bigger hit in NA/EU. Also, things like global cool down and endless arrow differences are a big factor in how Archers function.

It feels like KR is balancing their classes with stat costumes in mind, but how does that effect us? Are the XL Games devs accounting for the absence of these stat costumes in our version of the game? Is there something we can do to compensate for this? Would it be a viable choice to introduce the stat costumes in-game rather than in a cash shop?

It would be nice to see community management presence in this thread, considering it has a lot of valid points and some constructive information in it. We have lots of information from the community that generate valid questions that could use definitive answers.

Here's to wishful thinking!
Edit: grammar/clarity


EDIT/PS: Anyone have definitive information regarding these claims? https://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/comments/3i0cux/archery_nerfed_further_in_25_with_video/cuciirc
The information in the reddit post are right :<

1: How exactly did the stat costumes effect the balance between each of the meta classes in KR?
http://i.imgur.com/ESojFRC.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/WBIUbcS.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/MkQyirj.png
http://i.imgur.com/xjY43tA.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/Ehka8EN.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/XhjGgq3.png
http://i.imgur.com/2NL9a32.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/sMnNr6J.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/05hHzf1.png
http://i.imgur.com/LS0r2kp.png

2: What adjustments (if any) were made to compensate for the lack of stat costumes in the NA/EU versions? no adjustments m8

Tiomun
01-05-2016, 01:55 PM
To fix archery the very fist this that must be addressed is the base DPS of all bows.

XL can adjust scaling and modify abilities until they are blue in the face. Unless the base damage issue is addressed then archery will never be fixed.

This image shows the difference in Bows, 1H and 2H T6 Obsidian weapons at the basic grade.

The gap in the DPS grows quickly as the grades increase.

http://i.imgur.com/JYz9lrw.png

Inochwasathing
01-11-2016, 10:22 AM
Description: Many players have commented that they feel Archery is currently in an underpowered state.

Status: Trion normally does not push or champion class balance changes to XL. Their team possesses members of staff who only handle class and statistical balance, putting them in a better place to measure balance than our team.

However, we have discussed the community's feelings regarding Archery to them, and they have informed us that there are changes coming to Archery in Update 2.5. Currently, we are scheduled to receive Update 2.5 in late January.

Trion will not be making additional changes to the class balance beyond XL's modifications. The current class changes the KR region received will be the same changes we will receive.

@Celestrata sweetie you do realize because of the short sited decision made at launch by Trion to remove costume stats and place them into a cash shop is what has resulted in this unbalance!

A problem created by Trion, not XL.

So to tell us it is up to XL to correct the problem based on their version of AA, which includes costume stats, will only result in ....

kek gg ty for you time on this topic xD

tl;dr reinstate costume stats, archery unbalance resolved! If only costumes weren't for sale, cause that would be p2w huehuehuehue

Focslain
01-12-2016, 10:48 AM
@Celestrata sweetie you do realize because of the short sited decision made at launch by Trion to remove costume stats and place them into a cash shop is what has resulted in this unbalance!

A problem created by Trion, not XL.

So to tell us it is up to XL to correct the problem based on their version of AA, which includes costume stats, will only result in ....

kek gg ty for you time on this topic xD

tl;dr reinstate costume stats, archery unbalance resolved! If only costumes weren't for sale, cause that would be p2w huehuehuehue

Well if they added in the stats to the store customes, then yeah this game would be more p2w then it already is. Which is why they were removed.

Now was looking at this, not sure IF XL has this in the wings, but what about attaching stats to the Ayanard costumes form the library. At least then the person would have to earn those bonuses.

Celestrata Bloodsong
01-13-2016, 09:35 AM
1/13 Update -- Archery changes will still be made with Update 2.5, and we will wait on sending any additional feedback to XL until after Bloodsong's launch. Again, while we normally stay away from offering feedback on class balance changes, we will keep our eye on this one and continue to let XL know the community's opinions on NA/EU balance.

Kav
01-13-2016, 05:26 PM
1/13 Update -- Archery changes will still be made with Update 2.5, and we will wait on sending any additional feedback to XL until after Bloodsong's launch. Again, while we normally stay away from offering feedback on class balance changes, we will keep our eye on this one and continue to let XL know the community's opinions on NA/EU balance.

Any estimate on when we'll get KR's Secondary Class Balance Patch that they received on 12/16/2015?

Focslain
01-14-2016, 09:02 AM
To fix archery the very fist this that must be addressed is the base DPS of all bows.

XL can adjust scaling and modify abilities until they are blue in the face. Unless the base damage issue is addressed then archery will never be fixed.

This image shows the difference in Bows, 1H and 2H T6 Obsidian weapons at the basic grade.

The gap in the DPS grows quickly as the grades increase.

http://i.imgur.com/JYz9lrw.png

This is the main issue here, but if they have these same weapons in the other versions then we may have a larger problem on our hands.

Also I was missing a point on the costume stats. Honestly if you read them you'll notice that they will do nothing to help archery as most if not all the bonuses are for all damage types or specifically increases to melee and magic damage, not ranged damage.

Tiomun
01-19-2016, 10:26 AM
This is the main issue here, but if they have these same weapons in the other versions then we may have a larger problem on our hands.

Also I was missing a point on the costume stats. Honestly if you read them you'll notice that they will do nothing to help archery as most if not all the bonuses are for all damage types or specifically increases to melee and magic damage, not ranged damage.

I have not looked at the costume stats. I tend to be more of the mind set if we had costumes with stats so would the other classes, and XL clearly hates archers, so I would assume we would still be the worst class.

As far as 2.5 goes, the proof is in the pudding. Look at the new Arena systems buffs for example.

Every buff choice receives a base damage buff appropriate for the type of damage they are doing except the one marked for archery.

Ranged Rogue (Bow & Arrow)

Agility: 1101-----------------------(default 1074-1101 in base stats)
Defense: 3073--------------------(mid level defense)
Magic Defense: 3073-----------(mid level magic defense)
Melee Attack: 500---------------(default)
Ranged Attack: 425-------------(DEFAULT)
Focus: 3475-----------------------(default)
Toughness: 2526-----------------(default)
Resilience: 4036------------------(default)
Post-Cast Mana Regen: 10----(default)
Miscellaneous:
Apply Complete Leather Set Effect, (default)
Apply Divine Leather Armor Set Effect, (default)
Apply Dual Weapon Effect (default)[probably should be the two handed buff]

For the RANGED BUILD, Ranged Attack: 425 is exactly the same as the Ranged Attack in every other buff option. While the other buffs receive actual beneficial buffs to make it worth choosing we get stuck with a build that only gives us our base stat as a incentive to use it.

XL hates archers, I highly doubt 2.5 is going to #savearchery, unless there is some passive or general enhancements that will change archery for the better we don't know about yet.

Focslain
01-19-2016, 12:38 PM
I have not looked at the costume stats. I tend to be more of the mind set if we had costumes with stats so would the other classes, and XL clearly hates archers, so I would assume we would still be the worst class.

As far as 2.5 goes, the proof is in the pudding. Look at the new Arena systems buffs for example.

Every buff choice receives a base damage buff appropriate for the type of damage they are doing except the one marked for archery.

Ranged Rogue (Bow & Arrow)

Agility: 1101-----------------------(default 1074-1101 in base stats)
Defense: 3073--------------------(mid level defense)
Magic Defense: 3073-----------(mid level magic defense)
Melee Attack: 500---------------(default)
Ranged Attack: 425-------------(DEFAULT)
Focus: 3475-----------------------(default)
Toughness: 2526-----------------(default)
Resilience: 4036------------------(default)
Post-Cast Mana Regen: 10----(default)
Miscellaneous:
Apply Complete Leather Set Effect, (default)
Apply Divine Leather Armor Set Effect, (default)
Apply Dual Weapon Effect (default)[probably should be the two handed buff]

For the RANGED BUILD, Ranged Attack: 425 is exactly the same as the Ranged Attack in every other buff option. While the other buffs receive actual beneficial buffs to make it worth choosing we get stuck with a build that only gives us our base stat as a incentive to use it.

XL hates archers, I highly doubt 2.5 is going to #savearchery, unless there is some passive or general enhancements that will change archery for the better we don't know about yet.

Can't say I'm surprised. basic ranged combat (ie archery) does seem to be the red-headed step child in most Korean or for that matter eastern developed MMOs and games. But after looking into it, it makes sense on the cultural point as is the western view on ranged weapons in general. I'm not seeing a major change in this anytime soon.

Rostrax
01-19-2016, 03:35 PM
Just to clear up any false hope, these will be 2.5 Archery Changes:

(This one may be wrong) Cast time of Concussive Arrow has been increased to 2 seconds from 1.5 seconds
Cooldown of Charged Bolt is increased by 1 second and damage slightly increased.
Changed the damage of Concussive Arrow.
Changed the damage of Missile Rain.
Changed the critical strike chance of Eagle Eyes from 3% to 5%.

Tiomun
01-20-2016, 10:31 PM
Ok so, official review of the changes to 2.5 and archery as they are on the PTS.

Balanced Arena

The ranged arena buff is horrible as noted previously. Scored more wins using the defensive plate & shield buff than the 0 wins using the ranged buff. The ranged buff does not have the survive-ability needed to compensate for such low damage numbers.

The only plus to the new arena system is that pretty much every buff has ranged damage so there is no buff a archer cant use. That said we shouldn't have to resort to using off speck buffs just to be viable.

Ranged arena wise. I can see doing a shield, short spear combo as a stone arrow and using the defensive plate & shield buff. At first glance This could be the most viable option for ranged arena builds.

Normal game play

This is difficult to judge since there is no decent ranged weapon provided by the fluffy commands. The best bow is a unique epherium bow. With no regrade scrolls available on the PTS its basically useless to test with. Other builds have an array of celestial grade obsidian tier 4 weapons to chose from, but no bow. So the findings here are simply the result of XL clearly hating archers to the point of not even giving us proper gear to test with.

Based on the testing I did do with this bow, I still saw multiple 1's in pvp flying across my screen, granted there were less 1's and some double digit numbers but all in all endless arrows is still useless. XL should consider renaming it endless tickles.

While endless arrows has had a minuscule improvement, the overall damage of all other abilities seems lower than before. Again this is incredibly hard to judge with such poor gear.

Conclusions

Outside of the new arena system, Its not really fair to judge how little or not the changes have affected archers since there isn't decent gear provided to test with.

However the lack of proper archery gear seems to just be another symptom of how XL hates archers. One out of many I have seen so far. Pretty much every change to items or system added to the game has a often small but definitely present FU to archers built into it. Its getting old really fast!

chuggy
01-21-2016, 07:12 AM
Seems 2.5 is more an nerf for archer with high ranged attack :mad:

Bumblefoot
01-21-2016, 07:45 AM
As an archer I can tell you I'm losing interest in logging this game. Why should I bother ? Staff haven't even made comment about the archery bs. Well you staff can continue to ignore us a pretend everything all happy and fluffy in 2.5. It's not. Your going to kill this game even faster than before. Who pays xl for a product that's guranteed to flop based on feedback from community and just pretends it's all ok. Lala lala I'm trion I don't care just buy more apex lalala trino can't hear you lala lala . Maybe like the other I'll just go to this new mmo that just launched and dump this poorly maintained mmo

Tiomun
01-21-2016, 10:13 AM
I am really getting pissed at all this........

2.5 should have offered at least a mild improvement according to the live streams, not more nerfs and a deliberate underpowering of the new arena buff.

And now let the bad memes begin!

http://i.imgur.com/L1bSAvc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/efEgJNP.jpg

Rostrax
01-21-2016, 03:12 PM
What is funny is Koon gets Divine Ayanad 2-3 days earlier then the good archery patch and was complaining that Archery is very bad now.
Published on Sep 20, 2015

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Qo0rzHQeY

The good Archery changes came out 2015-09-23 Information Update (add)
20:11 2015-09-22 | Views 9779
Archeage KR Archery Patch Notes Link (http://archeage.xlgames.com/mboards/patchnote/9827?page=3&myArticle=false)

wild.
prevent daunting effect one weapon per nesting in the wild, shield, dodge chance will decrease 0.5%
stun chain damage from shock arrows from 23% to 48 has increased as a percentage.
Continuous shooting the will to use chain damage to the target is bleeding.
Added 1 seconds to stack effect in the prison of bones hit.
was to improve the determination of the bomb arrows, add a daunting chain damage 51% of the wild Checked.
(These are the changes everyone was looking for. Increased damage, feral mark changes and Endless Arrow stacking damage with poison)

Coincidence? I think not. Why can't we expedite the Archery changes to EU/US?

I'll be honest it is hard to keep logging in every day to get hit 17k by a dr with T4 epic when I have a legendary T6 Bandit King and I do more damage with Shield Slam then Charged Bolt, Toxic or Piercing shot with a celestal T4 shortspear. If that doesn't tell you something is wrong, I don't know what does.

I love Archeage as a game and I love everything they have going for it, but playing an archer this long with no help has been one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had. Although Archeage as a whole ranks up there with my #1 favorite game: Ultima Online. I really hope this is fixed sooner rather then later. I'm starting to drift away to other games and I really don't want to. In fact, I was going to quit AA entirely due to this, I even did for about 4 months, it's only chance that I hopped back into the game. I tried mage, then DR and couldn't do it. I had to play stupid gimped Archer for some reason, even talking about it makes me angry! I just keep editing this post over and over adding more and more frustration. lkasdjflawkejfoaiw;efjaw;oelijfa;dsofjsoaijg;aoweg !!!!!!!!!!!

Keep your jacked up RNG and keep your broken gem system. #SAVEARCHERY!

Kav
01-21-2016, 06:23 PM
They`re aware of Archery being given the shortest stick, but we`re also aware XL don`t give a fook about what Trion says in regards to class balances =p

Calim
01-21-2016, 06:55 PM
They`re aware of Archery being given the shortest stick, but we`re also aware XL don`t give a fook about what Trion says in regards to class balances =p

Keep your arrows in dungeons.



Trion/XL, "wants more people to play in open world".
Changes arena so that everyone can play not just the top 1%..
Continues to force Archery to PvE only..
What?????

Tiomun
01-21-2016, 07:24 PM
What is funny is Koon gets Divine Ayanad 2-3 days earlier then the good archery patch and was complaining that Archery is very bad now.
Published on Sep 20, 2015

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Qo0rzHQeY

The good Archery changes came out 2015-09-23 Information Update (add)
20:11 2015-09-22 | Views 9779
Archeage KR Archery Patch Notes Link (http://archeage.xlgames.com/mboards/patchnote/9827?page=3&myArticle=false)

wild.
prevent daunting effect one weapon per nesting in the wild, shield, dodge chance will decrease 0.5%
stun chain damage from shock arrows from 23% to 48 has increased as a percentage.
Continuous shooting the will to use chain damage to the target is bleeding.
Added 1 seconds to stack effect in the prison of bones hit.
was to improve the determination of the bomb arrows, add a daunting chain damage 51% of the wild Checked.
(These are the changes everyone was looking for. Increased damage, feral mark changes and Endless Arrow stacking damage with poison)

Coincidence? I think not. Why can't we expedite the Archery changes to EU/US?

I'll be honest it is hard to keep logging in every day to get hit 17k by a dr with T4 epic when I have a legendary T6 Bandit King and I do more damage with Shield Slam then Charged Bolt, Toxic or Piercing shot with a celestal T4 shortspear. If that doesn't tell you something is wrong, I don't know what does.

I love Archeage as a game and I love everything they have going for it, but playing an archer this long with no help has been one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had. Although Archeage as a whole ranks up there with my #1 favorite game: Ultima Online. I really hope this is fixed sooner rather then later. I'm starting to drift away to other games and I really don't want to. In fact, I was going to quit AA entirely due to this, I even did for about 4 months, it's only chance that I hopped back into the game. I tried mage, then DR and couldn't do it. I had to play stupid gimped Archer for some reason, even talking about it makes me angry! I just keep editing this post over and over adding more and more frustration. lkasdjflawkejfoaiw;efjaw;oelijfa;dsofjsoaijg;aoweg !!!!!!!!!!!

Keep your jacked up RNG and keep your broken gem system. #SAVEARCHERY!

I hear you. My last post, I rewrote it a good 7 times or more, finally I decided to just use some images since I couldn't put what I wanted to say into words.

I watched your post today get several edits also. Everything you've said, I feel the same way about. I even tried going DR and abolisher. even tried dagger spell. I love playing a archer, but this ♥♥♥♥ has gotten way out of hand.

Bumblefoot
01-22-2016, 05:49 AM
Archery Is an unplayable joke. In 2.5 they take that joke to the extreme with arenas unplayable by archers and skill changed that do nothing to address the problem. It's like an earlier post said a t6 legendary bow shouldn't be doing less dmg than a t4 divine spear. My t5 divine spear does more dmg than my bow to the point I'm using overwhelm and shadows mite for 60% of enemy hp then pew pewing enemy down with arrows doing 40 dmg block block block parry parry block 3 dmg 40 dmg block block block block block 23 parry 3 3 3 parry block block. USELESS CLASS

Tetrax
01-22-2016, 06:34 AM
What your typical archer would be aiming for to at least be able to compete in open world and small scale pvp.

http://aacalc.ru/en/?a=010HTNTBokFj22

Also, i have NEVER read any post about archers rolling on ppl. Or posts about salty 1v1's (just check tahyang forum lol)
WHY cz archery sucks atm ( BUT I F**ING LOVE IT QQ)

On the other hand, i have NEVER met a salty and unfriendly archer ever. They are all nice may it be west or east faction.
I'd say we are probably the only down to earth ppl left haha :p ARCHERS UNITE

#2.5B!!!!!

Tiomun
01-22-2016, 08:32 AM
Created this for a signature

http://i.imgur.com/SWkm9vP.png

But then realized that they don't allow images in the forum sigs. So I decided to use the big ugly red text instead.

Culland
01-22-2016, 08:52 AM
I would be great if Trion could let us know when we are getting the changes that came shortly after 2.5? Do we need to wait till 2.9 content release to get them?

Focslain
01-22-2016, 09:02 AM
I would be great if Trion could let us know when we are getting the changes that came shortly after 2.5? Do we need to wait till 2.9 content release to get them?

Depending on the condensed update schedule Trion is trying to follow, it would be in the update matching when KR/RU got it.

Love the sig image Tiomun, where you get the image of the catgirl archer, looks familiar but not placing it.

Tiomun
01-22-2016, 09:03 AM
IDK I'm at the point where I'm spending more time in photoshop and the forum than playing the game. I haven't even used any labor in the last few days. Doesn't look good as far as me continuing to play this game which blows cuz I really do like it, but I can only take being pissed on by a game manufacturer for so long and a year has been way too long.

Not making threats, just saying I'm past the point of being sick and tired of waiting for a archery fix.

Tiomun
01-22-2016, 09:04 AM
Depending on the condensed update schedule Trion is trying to follow, it would be in the update matching when KR/RU got it.

Love the sig image Tiomun, where you get the image of the catgirl archer, looks familiar but not placing it.

Thanks. The girl is Sinon from Sword art online II

Tiomun
01-22-2016, 09:33 AM
Some fun facts about #savearchery @trion and @xl

Searching the arecheage forum for #savearchery results in 23 Forum threads. All 23 threads start off discussing archery so these are not just random people yelling about archery in unrelated topics.

Total replies to these threads

2,716

TWO THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED AND SIXTEEN REPLIES! (in case numbers are hard )

Googling #savearchery returns about 736 results. This includes many of the forum posts, but also many videos, images, and social media posts about this hash tag.

I know these Official topics can be misleading when it comes to getting a sense of the scale of an issue. I hope this helps!

So if you figure on average the normal person has posted 5 times on the subject, that gives us roughly 544 players who have actually taken the time to comment on the problems with archery.

According to a few business studies. For every 1 customer who complains there are 26 other unhappy customers. But I have trouble believing this is accurate since the number of affected players is so high using this logic, that I'm not sure if this game even has that many registered users.

chuggy
01-22-2016, 09:46 AM
1/13 Update -- Archery changes will still be made with Update 2.5, and we will wait on sending any additional feedback to XL until after Bloodsong's launch. Again, while we normally stay away from offering feedback on class balance changes, we will keep our eye on this one and continue to let XL know the community's opinions on NA/EU balance.

Description: Many players have commented that they feel Archery is currently in an underpowered state.

Status: Trion normally does not push or champion class balance changes to XL. Their team possesses members of staff who only handle class and statistical balance, putting them in a better place to measure balance than our team.

However, we have discussed the community's feelings regarding Archery to them, and they have informed us that there are changes coming to Archery in Update 2.5. Currently, we are scheduled to receive Update 2.5 in late January.

Trion will not be making additional changes to the class balance beyond XL's modifications. The current class changes the KR region received will be the same changes we will receive.

So why did you change stats on costumes than, they have a great impact on class balance ??

Calim
01-22-2016, 11:48 AM
So why did you change stats on costumes than, they have a great impact on class balance ??

If all of the archers quit, Mage and Melee become balanced!

Now you're starting to understand. ^_^

Rostrax
01-22-2016, 02:11 PM
If all of the archers quit, Mage and Melee become balanced!

Now you're starting to understand. ^_^

I guess that's what they want to happen? Is almost been a year now. If it doesn't get fixed next month I give up for my own sanity.

Focslain
01-22-2016, 02:15 PM
So why did you change stats on costumes than, they have a great impact on class balance ??

The costume stats don't help archery, most of the stats are for melee and magic.

Only thing you could use them for is a gem holder, if they have slots (ie regradable).

chuggy
01-22-2016, 11:36 PM
The costume stats don't help archery, most of the stats are for melee and magic.

Only thing you could use them for is a gem holder, if they have slots (ie regradable).

There are costumes with a lot of ignore defense which will help archer a lot.

Pwnocchio
01-25-2016, 07:52 AM
1/13 Update -- Archery changes will still be made with Update 2.5, and we will wait on sending any additional feedback to XL until after Bloodsong's launch. Again, while we normally stay away from offering feedback on class balance changes, we will keep our eye on this one and continue to let XL know the community's opinions on NA/EU balance.

Celestrata,

None of the changes in 2.5 address any of the real problems with Archery, problems that are getting worse, not better. In fact, most of the changes in 2.5 result in a nerf to people with Ranged Attack > 500.

1. Line of sight is terrible for archers. Any patch of uneven ground (even if it's less than knee high) can block your line of sight. You have to get extremely lucky on a ship to be able to shoot anyone on another ship without your LOS being compromised.

2. Modern defense >> modern archery. The current flavor of the month (or 6 months), Abolishers, simply laughs at the damage output of archery because of their hyper-inflated block rates (which aren't much fixed in the new patch) and their hyper inflated physical resistance due to high armor. Archers can't get enough focus or armor pen to meaningfully counter any phys defense player anywhere near the archers gear score (even 1k less).

3. Everyone seems to have more cc or slow than archers

4. Gap closers >> Gap creaters. It doesn't matter if you've been super focused on buffing your foot speed and potting for more, you can't run fast enough to maintain a gap with Abolishers/Darkrunners, and remember... when you are running from them you don't get your evasion but they still get their block/parry/evasion.

5. Archery damage is shameful. See the posts demonstrating bow damage vs other weapons.

6. As mentioned the changes in 2.5 are a nerf for high level archers, not a buff. See this spreadsheet for data...

Archery 2.0 vs 2.5 (http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IWaa5TJEOqd3zExYZqrqErJYvQtetz7Sp9qNbI3JkNA/edit#gid=0)

Here are your patch notes from the PTS:


ArcheAge Version 2.5, Build 8.0 Patch Notes -- Bloodsong
PTS Patch Notes are subject to change and are not considered final.

ARCHERY

The trip duration applied after reaching 30 stacks of Feral Mark on a target has been increased from 1.5 to 2 seconds.
The base damage of Charged Bolt has been increased but the Ranged Attack damage coefficient has been decreased. The cooldown of Charged Bolt has been increased from 9 to 10 seconds.
The base damage of Concussive Arrow has been increased but the Ranged Attack damage coefficient has been decreased.
The base damage of Missile Rain has been increased.
The Ranged Critical Rate bonus that's applied from the Eagle Eyes passive has been increased from 3% to 5%.
Float can no longer be used while gliding.




The only true buff's in there are to Eagle Eye and the trip duration but you'll only get that trip duration bonus on Mobs because any PvP you shoot that long will have killed you.

Charged Bolt damage has dropped AND the cool-down has increased. THAT IS A NERF to the best archer damage skill
Concussive Arrow damage has dropped. THAT IS A NERF
Maybe Missile Range damage has increased, but Missile Range has never been a PvP difference maker other than trying to take out Ironclads.

You told us 2.5 was supposed to help archery, but it nerfs more than it helps.

All of those combo bonues (called out in that spread sheet) apparently aren't going to be here into 2.9, and when they come you'll note that those skills will only be buffed during the rare times that you get their combo's to proc, otherwise they are all nerfed across the board. You can likely throw Toxic Shot into that bag too.

You need to make XL understand that there are differences between YOUR market and their market, and their inability to account for those differences is costing you customers.

Making a thread here and then doing jack to actually help your customers out isn't convincing. You've done nothing. You don't seem interesting in doing anything. There are piles of data provided to you by your customers.

Do something the hell about it.

Pwnocchio
01-25-2016, 08:00 AM
Seems 2.5 is more an nerf for archer with high ranged attack :mad:

What absolutely kills me is that in the past you could kinda lean on mass PvP to make you feel better, but with the recent gearing bonanza resulting from the regrade event, it's not just the elite gear level players that are shrugging off your Epic Bow damage in Halcyona or Mist Merrow. The portion of players that you simply can't hurt much is tremendously inflated to the point that your impact, as an archer, in mass PvP has also now been neutered.

chuggy
01-25-2016, 08:38 AM
Seems we have to look for another game where class balance is as important to the publisher as his cashflow.

Aaronfree
01-25-2016, 10:34 AM
@Celestrata

I understand that you have minimal control over class balance. There is one thing you could push for outside of just "buff Archery". Skill Queue. Skill queue would free archers from the painfully long GCD of endless arrows and allow them to actually kite. On the PTS I felt like I was actually useful and even 1v2d a few times in 3s. Please don't let it take 5 months for us to get this feature, many people are holding out for it.

Pwnocchio
01-25-2016, 10:53 AM
There are a lot of ways they could do it, but they need to do it in a very profound and meaningful way. So far they keep talking about nickle & dime changes to skills and it's not going to fix anything because...

1. Archers can't kite
2. Archers can't tank

They need to do something like...

A. Nerf skills that slow movement and nerf gap closers, so archers suddenly are hard to catch
B. Let Evasion work from all angles Front/Sides/Rear
C. Make Focus more effective for Ranged Attack than it is for Melee
D. All of the above

They've nerfed archery so many times and so hard that they are to the point now that whatever they do is going to have to be epic in scale to right the ship.

Focslain
01-25-2016, 01:19 PM
Thanks. The girl is Sinon from Sword art online II

The sniper? Or that from the fairyland? (guessing it is but don't remember SOAII much after the GGO story arc)

xSouLiike
01-25-2016, 01:34 PM
The sniper? Or that from the fairyland? (guessing it is but don't remember SOAII much after the GGO story arc)

Yes the sniper


i have 6200 gearscore
legendary t5 v2 bow, and fighting people with 4.5 gs or higher if they wear plate armor or an obsi shield t4+
dr can catch up to me so easy with passive skills and gap closers

chuggy
01-25-2016, 10:27 PM
Give archery an passive like puncture and let it proc of ranged attacks

Rostrax
01-25-2016, 11:18 PM
Give archery an passive like puncture and let it proc of ranged attacks
Target Weakpoints -> 1500 toughness pen for 5 seconds on crit. Disables for 30 Seconds if triggered too often.

This would fix archery.

Yasu
01-26-2016, 05:58 AM
If they don't want to boost archery damage for whatever reasons they still can give us some utilities giving us more importance in small/large scale pvp. Something like interrupts (distracting shot from gw1 <3), traps, etc.

Tiomun
01-26-2016, 07:23 AM
The sniper? Or that from the fairyland? (guessing it is but don't remember SOAII much after the GGO story arc)

Yes the sniper, She goes to the fairy game after everything in GGO and plays an archer.


If they don't want to boost archery damage for whatever reasons they still can give us some utilities giving us more importance in small/large scale pvp. Something like interrupts (distracting shot from gw1 <3), traps, etc.

I agree with the utility idea here.

Don't know if boost is the right word though.

Is there a word for "No! Stop! Please, your hurting us!"

"No means No!"

"Just because my bow turns you on, doesn't mean I'm asking for it!"

"Please No! That's exit only!"

????



Seems we have to look for another game where class balance is as important to the publisher as his cashflow.

Blade & soul just launched. May be worth checking out.

r3zs1ckn3ss
01-26-2016, 08:48 AM
I've enjoyed range classes in all the mmos I've played. It's what I'm use to playing. I've finally given in and switched to melee because of all the stun/trip locking garbage. And doing 1 damage to shield users is a nuisance. I've noticed that archery damage had no significance until my bow hit Epic. So unless you have Divine or better, damage sucks. Sure I could make up for it with social savvy, but I'm an old school solo player. If a melee can solo, then so should archers. Oh well. This is a good reason to play ranged in other games when I'm not on AA. BDO here I come!

Culland
01-26-2016, 09:01 AM
I do miss the ranged interrupt, though its implementation when we had it was a bit clunky. Given that you cant break LOS on arc lightning or get out of range, it would be nice to be able to interrupt them.

Tiomun
01-26-2016, 10:42 AM
Is it sad that I'm desperately hoping all that we have seen of 2.5 on the PTS is not accurate and somehow on my main build the changes to archery will work out better in the end?

***Rocking back and forth curled up in a corner, fingers crossed muttering "Please #savearchery" over and over***

Rostrax
01-26-2016, 01:09 PM
Is it sad that I'm desperately hoping all that we have seen of 2.5 on the PTS is not accurate and somehow on my main build the changes to archery will work out better in the end?

***Rocking back and forth curled up in a corner, fingers crossed muttering "Please #savearchery" over and over***

I kept hoping they would maybe sneak the changes that happened a month after 2.5 release in with 2.5. Unfortunately, no dice. We just got hit with the nerf gun, so everyone that took the time and effort to be above 600 rdps to counter balance how horrible our class is, just got screwed over yet again.

Archery is dead boys! Shut it down!

Pezao1982
01-27-2016, 06:07 AM
Where is the power to Archery ?

1.2 nerf
1.8 nerf
2.0 nerf
2.5 more nerf

RIP Archery AGAIN !


""""""
Before
Charged Bolt: 4457 (803 + 418% Ranged Attack)
Concussive Arrow: 6774 (380 + 732% Ranged Attack)
Missile Rain: (4882-5908) Base damage
Eagle Eyes Passive: Ranged Accuracy +5%/Ranged Crit Rate +3%
After
Charged Bolt: 3513 (1210 + 263% Ranged Attack) +1 sec cooldown
Concussive Arrow: 5369 (656 + 540% Ranged Attack)
Missile Rain: (3386-4034) Base damage
""""""



Soooo i'm leavin this, i'm goin to B&S

StrappedBunny
01-27-2016, 08:03 AM
ya... i have over 750 ranged attack and i lost over 600 damage per skill and im crit based with over 120% crit damage so... i lost like 1400 damage per skill on a crit. thanks for the nerfs again though :)

Pwnocchio
01-27-2016, 08:25 AM
Before
Missile Rain: (4882-5908) Base damage

After
Missile Rain: (3386-4034) Base damage


...and yet the patch notes said the damage for missile range was increasing.

Rostrax
01-27-2016, 08:36 AM
...and yet the patch notes said the damage for missile range was increasing.

*sigh* I definitely feel the nerf. This has gotten so bad my wife who doesn't game is even telling me to quit and find another game... RIP Archery - January 26th 2016

Pwnocchio
01-27-2016, 08:56 AM
*sigh* I definitely feel the nerf. This has gotten so bad my wife who doesn't game is even telling me to quit and find another game... RIP Archery - January 26th 2016

I mean, it's so bad it' funny.

Trions says "They are doing stuff to help it in 2.5."

Then Trion patch notes say "They are buffing damage on Rain of Arrows"

...and yet everything that happened was a nerf and specifically a nerf to RoA.

*claps*

Would be nice if Celestrata would chime in with a 'yeah, we are aware of the 2.5 nerf and we are talking with XL about it more"

Guunslinger
01-27-2016, 11:36 AM
@Celestrata we just took a big nerf in the ♥♥♥ right now... & now we will get more crushed by your beloved Darkrunners & Tank... If only I made a Darkrunner at my first day ><

Kegster
01-27-2016, 12:33 PM
I do miss the ranged interrupt, though its implementation when we had it was a bit clunky. Given that you cant break LOS on arc lightning or get out of range, it would be nice to be able to interrupt them.

Arc lightning is the only mage skill I've managed to out range. Seems like if I can get to about 40m it doesn't get off. Bubble trap or insidious whisper on the other hand.....hahaha

Rostrax
01-27-2016, 01:14 PM
Arc lightning is the only mage skill I've managed to out range. Seems like if I can get to about 40m it doesn't get off. Bubble trap or insidious whisper on the other hand.....hahaha

Yeah, I love staying so far away from a mage I can't shoot but then getting the bubble animation coming at me before I can even hit an endless arrow like "WTF is happening?"

fanatic667
01-27-2016, 04:12 PM
i played the few free matches i had today and i gotta say that archery is dead in balanced arenas for me. Just playing abolisher and stomping nerds with like 10 min practice.

why didnt i just roll a battlerage class at launch qq

i mean who in their right mind would go full gale with no movement speed in their build!? 13k hp and 3k armor (1k after puncture) :D

the guy who made the archer preset should be kicked in the ***

kinda mad and in disbelieve at the same time.

thormond
01-27-2016, 06:14 PM
Seems like Trino&XL can't even tell a buff from a nerf after over 1 year of 'reading' feedback and gives its players yet another slap in the face. This game has officially beaten the world record when it comes to incompetence of game designers

Looks like I made a right call by going to B&S and dropping subcription last month, nothing to look for here

HoleID
01-27-2016, 08:10 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7ZeJqjKM6oOZbtug/giphy.gif
Dono i'm not surprised =3=

Chugaal
01-27-2016, 11:27 PM
Celestrata, can you please ask XL games whats the reason for their decision to nerf archers with ranged attack > 550 with this patch.

I wana hear there explanation so i can decide if there is any hope and its worth to stay here.

Tengrii
01-28-2016, 09:04 AM
they only want our money, they never do a ♥♥♥♥ to fix archery " and always say archery will Have a buf in the next patch "

Tiomina
01-28-2016, 09:08 AM
Its really looking like its not worth staying here. These nerfs have not only made archery even more useless in PvP, but it is now a lot weaker in PvE as well.

I came to this game literally because of nerfs made to the play style of archery on another game. Now in this game archery is fun, but weak as hell. Just so tired of this now.

Rostrax
01-28-2016, 12:50 PM
https://openclipart.org/image/2400px/svg_to_png/162577/1317604469.png

Rostrax
01-28-2016, 03:10 PM
I wish they would address this already. STILL BORKED< PLOZ

Tiomina
01-29-2016, 06:22 AM
Honestly if we want this fixed I think we all should be more aggressive about it. Every archer should be encouraged to post on this thread, and everyone who posts in the forums often should add #savearchery to their signatures.

Shy of boycotting buying patron or rage quiting I think this is all us archers can do. Throw a fit and let them know.

Tiomina
01-29-2016, 06:26 AM
You know what, after that live stream, I'm done with archery, and giving Trion my hard earned real world cash. Between patron and all the extra crap micropurchases this is the thanks us archers get.

They act like archery hasn't been brutally ♥♥♥♥♥ over and over the last few patches, not even simply nerfed at this point, but blatantly screwed over even by the "fair and balanced arena system" what a joke that was, someone at XL got a real good laugh while planning that out and how they could beat down archers even more.

We should be compensated for the time gold and money we all wasted on specking archery.

senzer
01-30-2016, 05:02 AM
Its so lame that we use so many money to play this game, on gear a bow cost so much gold to get. and then your nerf us again.! im soon done with this game.! and we cant sell our stuff. when this class is so bad and all ppl dont want to play it anymore!

xSouLiike
01-31-2016, 05:26 PM
#save archery

Pwnocchio
02-01-2016, 08:25 AM
While farming in the library during the double bonanza I noticed that a book laying on the floor (as tall as my characters ankle) was sufficient to block my line of sight to the bookcase mob standing behind it.

So fun.

Focslain
02-01-2016, 09:25 AM
Going to ask this, cause it did accrue to me.

Has anyone here fought against the jellyfish on the ocean, you know the big ones that attack from 50m+ and stay there?

Cause giving archery the same damage as say BR would make archers that thing.

Just a thought.

Zherbus
02-01-2016, 02:31 PM
That's just false hyperbole.

28m and 50m aren't the same thing given all of the gap closers in the game.

SweatyFarmer
02-01-2016, 04:33 PM
#savearchery (5K gs, loose to any 4k with BR)

Pwnocchio
02-02-2016, 05:47 AM
Going to ask this, cause it did accrue to me.

Has anyone here fought against the jellyfish on the ocean, you know the big ones that attack from 50m+ and stay there?

Cause giving archery the same damage as say BR would make archers that thing.

Just a thought.

Jellyfish has fantastic gap-creator skills.

I think no player class has those kinds of gap-openers.

Also, Archers lack the range of the jelly.

Focslain
02-08-2016, 09:32 AM
So in the recent livestream they announced that costumes will be getting stats now. Leveled much like the guild cloaks are now.

So who will like to take bets on how much this actually helps archery?

thormond
02-08-2016, 11:59 PM
So in the recent livestream they announced that costumes will be getting stats now. Leveled much like the guild cloaks are now.

So who will like to take bets on how much this actually helps archery?

I bet that it's gonna be somewhere between 300 and 600 armor penetration plus some silly attributes and that it won't change anything (geared ppl have 8k+ pdef in leather and 12k+ in plate) just like cloaks didn't change anything

Just eating popcorn and enjoying the deserved backlash that Trino/XL brought upon themselves, I'm happily diamond in B&S arenas and there are tournaments to prepare for

Wytchblades
02-09-2016, 06:23 AM
I bet that it's gonna be somewhere between 300 and 600 armor penetration plus some silly attributes and that it won't change anything (geared ppl have 8k+ pdef in leather and 12k+ in plate) just like cloaks didn't change anything

Just eating popcorn and enjoying the deserved backlash that Trino/XL brought upon themselves, I'm happily diamond in B&S arenas and there are tournaments to prepare for

Have to agree. Archery lack of damage is bad and while I dont want to do as much as BR ranged it would be nice to do more and not be a after thought in pvp. If a Archery is at range we should be deadly, not laughed off and ignored till the end based on our damage.

Tiomun
02-10-2016, 10:19 AM
Have to agree. Archery lack of damage is bad ....

I love your signature. Its literally what archeage archery is.


https://gfycat.com/RaggedMemorableBlueandgoldmackaw

The dude clearly shot the phesant with a endless arrow then had to run into range to overwhelm and shadow smite his target to actually kill it.

Perfect! Lol

yoitsnex
02-16-2016, 04:41 PM
Removing the ridiculous close range damage penalty would be a good start in helping Archery. I'm sure the 4 or 5 archers left on Aranzeb would appreciate it.

AleXiC94
02-17-2016, 02:30 AM
Hello Trion/XL games.

So obviously due to this thread there is a great need to improve archery in NA/EU zones. Even in Korea, kooncoon himself has said that archery is nerfed to the point where most ppl in KR don't even play archer builds. But in NA/EU this problem is made much worse by the fact that we can't kite properly due to the endless arrows workaround that we have to use because of variable ping due to players being from various time zones (EU, australia, brazil, china, korea etc.) Because of this workaround archers can't kite properly.

So with that in mind here are some subtle buffs/changes that can be made to archery to help bring it back in line for NA/EU markets.


Solution 1)

Allow animation cancelling on endless arrows for all movement and skill shots such as teleport, dropback, mirror warp, toxic shot, stalkers mark, charged bolt, piercing shot, boneyard and snare.
reinstate the 20% damage bonus to stalkers mark but make it ranged damage only and add 1000 physical defense penetration OR 1000 ranged focus
Make focus directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks
Make Defense penetration directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks (Note: this one most likely is already in place but just in case it isn't equivalent, it should be made equal to the defense penetration bonus given to melee)


Solution 2)

Allow animation cancelling on endless arrows for ONLY teleport, dropback, mirror warp and behind enemy lines.
Adjust the damage from endless arrows to be in line with the damage done by mana stars. Mana stars has roughly the same attack speed as endless arrows and it does MUCH more damage and can't be mitigated easily. Bringing endless arrows in line with mana stars will create an immediate improvement.
Make focus directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks
Make Defense penetration directly improve ranged attacks the same way it does melee attacks (Note: this one most likely is already in place but just in case it isn't equivalent, it should be made equal to the defense penetration bonus given to melee)



I feel that either of these solutions are subtle enough to improve archery enough to where it can compete with the other Main DPS classes without being too overpowered.



HEEEY why isnt this being implemented already, im tired of other classes ♥♥♥♥ting on archer, IM NOT CHANGING!

Tiomun
02-22-2016, 12:34 PM
Loving the changes to Missile rain.

Used to be able to missile rain the large mobs ind Diamond shore and one shot them If I timed it right. Now if I am lucky a missile rain hits for 1/3 of their hp.

Not to mention its fabulous firing a missile rain into a swarm of the enemy faction now. If one arrow is lucky enough to find a target out of the dozens launched it practically gives the victim their health back.

10 highly geared archers firing all at the same time cant even take out a single tank anymore.

Not only did you guys manage to nerf us once again, but you even took away one of the few things left that made playing a archer at least a little fun.

Why Oh Why Do you hate Archery So?

Bumblefoot
02-23-2016, 05:38 AM
Archery Is so dead even 6k + gs will be stomped by anything melee 4.8gs and up. It's literally a useless class now firing pointless arrows. Can't cancel any trips and has the dps of a potato gun. Since 2.5 ivlm seriously losing interest in game and faith in our devs. Everyone on all servers after 2.0 even in korea and Russia raged at how useless they made archers so when 2.5 hits they nerf archers more. Suck OP research by xl games. Ground breaking research . If it's broken break it more? So this leaves me a problem. Do I just quit and forget this game or do I work twice as hard as other dps classes to get 1k gs more than them to do half the dmg they do? We don't even have any form of defence to compensate our stupidly low dps. Yes sooooo much fun hitting 1 1 1 3 3 1 0 0 0 1 20 1 1 1. Pointless arrows .

If a staff member dare replies classes don't matter with "social savvy" I'll use my dam social savvy to mass rage quit with all other archers that would be "social savvy"

Please just delete archery as a skill tree. It does less dmg than my pet. Maybe u could change all archery to a pet for us all to have and compensate us to switch class. Uve left us in bound gear playing an unplayable pointless class. If u think I'll start from 0 gear and make a new class with my own gold and credits your dillusional. Makes more sense to just find a new game. Judging by population during black desert beta I'd say alot are going to leave this insanely badly managed game. Think I'll join them . No point in wasting my time here on a class with no purpose. It's not a dps class it's clearly not a tank healer or cc. So what is an archer? Are we a run away class. We move fast. That's all we do.

Lorii
02-23-2016, 09:00 AM
Archery Is so dead even 6k + gs will be stomped by anything melee 4.8gs and up. It's literally a useless class now firing pointless arrows. Can't cancel any trips and has the dps of a potato gun. Since 2.5 ivlm seriously losing interest in game and faith in our devs. Everyone on all servers after 2.0 even in korea and Russia raged at how useless they made archers so when 2.5 hits they nerf archers more. Suck OP research by xl games. Ground breaking research . If it's broken break it more? So this leaves me a problem. Do I just quit and forget this game or do I work twice as hard as other dps classes to get 1k gs more than them to do half the dmg they do? We don't even have any form of defence to compensate our stupidly low dps. Yes sooooo much fun hitting 1 1 1 3 3 1 0 0 0 1 20 1 1 1. Pointless arrows .

If a staff member dare replies classes don't matter with "social savvy" I'll use my dam social savvy to mass rage quit with all other archers that would be "social savvy"

Please just delete archery as a skill tree. It does less dmg than my pet. Maybe u could change all archery to a pet for us all to have and compensate us to switch class. Uve left us in bound gear playing an unplayable pointless class. If u think I'll start from 0 gear and make a new class with my own gold and credits your dillusional. Makes more sense to just find a new game. Judging by population during black desert beta I'd say alot are going to leave this insanely badly managed game. Think I'll join them . No point in wasting my time here on a class with no purpose. It's not a dps class it's clearly not a tank healer or cc. So what is an archer? Are we a run away class. We move fast. That's all we do.

Except battlerage is faster than us thanks to 3 gap closers that can reset, and reckless charge movement speed buff when they BEL or tiger strike. Good thing we can kite that extra 3m range, oh wait ping means that we can be out of range to hit them, but they can tigerstrike us from 28-30m because they're the chaser.

Aserghui
02-23-2016, 03:25 PM
Why does focus not give a damage benefit to archery abilities?

ZombiFlu
02-25-2016, 01:55 PM
Something I do as an archer....

Eat soup, eat sandwich, play music... let my melee pet kill everything.

He kills faster than my arrow rain now anyways. :/

XxThatWhitexX
02-25-2016, 06:34 PM
my lvl 50 wolf does more damage than my archery at lvl 55 :P

DavidBrendan
02-27-2016, 02:26 PM
No offense to the XL team who handles class balance, but so far their decisions to keep nerfing archery clearly shows that a handful of people who run a few tests are in no way a better judge than the entire community of archers who almost all agree that archery is broken.

I mean really, who came up with the idea to take the ranged damage stacking off of Stalkers Mark. Its a RANGED skill! It doesn't make any sense. Archery was already bad while it still had the ranged damage stacking, and is only worse off without it. And were being told to have faith and trust that XL will make food decisions when it comes to archery. Call me skeptical, but I have a feeling 2.5 is not going to help in any way. Just from reading the increased cool downs and cast times. I cant see this ending well

World of Warcraft nerfed my main speck to the point of it not being enjoyable to play so I left and came here. I am concerned that f 2.5 doesn't improve archery, that I have wasted a lot of time and money on this game building a speck that will never be improved.

My thoughts exactly, i have invested too much into being an archer to change now, if not improved i may have no choice but to leave also, i won't play in a class that is set up for constant failure

DavidBrendan
02-27-2016, 02:58 PM
they offer everything else for almost every other issue, don't like your server, here transfer even though it might make all servers highly unstable for months, i for one would gladly take a compensation to take my earnings and what i've spent to apply to another spec, two years all my gold later and still get killed in a duel by someone with far less gs, one can only take so much abuse before putting hands in the air and walking away

Rootytooty
02-29-2016, 12:46 PM
Give us KR/skill queue endless arrows so we can kite and increase the multipliers. That's all you need to do.

Pwnocchio
03-10-2016, 12:05 PM
1/13 Update -- Archery changes will still be made with Update 2.5, and we will wait on sending any additional feedback to XL until after Bloodsong's launch. Again, while we normally stay away from offering feedback on class balance changes, we will keep our eye on this one and continue to let XL know the community's opinions on NA/EU balance.

O.k. 2.5 has come and been tested.

The unanimous feedback from your customers is "Archery sucks as bad as ever, your 2.5 was more of a nerf."

Have you sent that feedback to XL Games yet?

Zherbus
03-11-2016, 09:27 AM
There will always be SOME amount of class imbalances in a game with so many class options. However, Archery as a primary skill tree is one of the most damaging thing to this game. People are quitting for this, in addition to all of the other reasons. People have played Archer classes since launch and not everyone of them has the time or money to totally reinvest into melee, mage, or healer.

Depingah
03-11-2016, 10:01 AM
They have until 2.9 to fix this. Otherwise, I'm throwing in the towel.

Zherbus
03-11-2016, 10:56 AM
That'll be the next official update to this thread. 'We have changes coming in 2.9!' They won't be what is necessary (because it really isn't in Korea) and we'll be sitting here all summer debating wasting more time and money re-rolling or just quitting altogether.

Focslain
03-14-2016, 09:28 AM
So on the livestream on 03/11 Kholan stated that he gave XL a list of 15 questions concerning their view on archery. Would it be possible to update this thread with said Q&A so we can get a better understand of what the parties involved want from this skill tree.

Was also reading the planned effects of the t7 obsidian and noticed that the bow has a second option of lowering armour on marked target (google translate gave it as: When using markers enemy armor reduction target)

Not sure if this is for Stalker's mark or Feral mark. Either way we are getting more def pen it seems, not nearly enough, but it's something.

Culland
03-14-2016, 09:42 AM
So on the livestream on 03/11 Kholan stated that he gave XL a list of 15 questions concerning their view on archery. Would it be possible to update this thread with said Q&A so we can get a better understand of what the parties involved want from this skill tree.

Might take some time to see the answers, ie probably never, but at this point I would just like to see the 15 questions to prove they exist and let me know if Trion even has a foggy bloody clue what they are doing.

The live stream in my opinion was insulting to archers. Gee thanks, after all this time you asked XL games some questions... why didnt you ask some questions a year ago when we went into the toilet?? I understand that XL Games does the balancing and it is largely out of control of Trion, but toss us a bloody bone. If you can add sheepie to the game you can give us a statue of XL games logo that archers can pray to that gives us a 24 hour buff that doubles the effect of Double Recurve. It doesnt fix our underlying problems, but its better than a list of 15 questions a year late.

Focslain
03-14-2016, 09:52 AM
Just as a side question: Was it ever suggested to make it so that instead of giving us a 20% penalty for being close to giving us a 20% bonus for attacks at +8m? Our base dps is already low compared to melee weapons/magic skills. Figured this would still make it so we kite but seems less of a perceived penalty then what we currently have.

Culland
03-14-2016, 02:02 PM
Just as a side question: Was it ever suggested to make it so that instead of giving us a 20% penalty for being close to giving us a 20% bonus for attacks at +8m? Our base dps is already low compared to melee weapons/magic skills. Figured this would still make it so we kite but seems less of a perceived penalty then what we currently have.

There have been threads of just removing the 20%, but they always get bogged down by all the people that still think our 3m range advantage is a big deal.

Focslain
03-15-2016, 06:27 AM
There have been threads of just removing the 20%, but they always get bogged down by all the people that still think our 3m range advantage is a big deal.

Ok, was thinking that is what Double recurve was suppose to do. Since it gave a static 20% bonus that would remove the penalty at -8m. I have to look into the other skill sets but I don't remember any of them getting a static bonus like that unless your looking at the 10+ passives.

lowest
03-15-2016, 10:49 AM
Can someone summarize what Khrolan said during the live stream? I think I blinked and may have missed it.

Calim
03-15-2016, 12:04 PM
Can someone summarize what Khrolan said during the live stream? I think I blinked and may have missed it.

You did blink, you did miss it.


- we submitted a list of 15 questions to XL games so that we can get an understanding of their vision so we can pass that on to you
- hah hah look at all the #savearchery chat spam

Less than 10 seconds if it was even 5 seconds.

Also, nice first post!

Culland
03-16-2016, 06:41 AM
Ok, was thinking that is what Double recurve was suppose to do. Since it gave a static 20% bonus that would remove the penalty at -8m. I have to look into the other skill sets but I don't remember any of them getting a static bonus like that unless your looking at the 10+ passives.

Double recurve isn't 20% and even if it was, it is still a damage reduction within 8m range and is our self buff, not some addon to counter a ♥♥♥♥ty mechanic. That is like saying sorc's get insulating lens for their self buff, so within 8m of their attacker they get a reduction to their defense, shield absorb and stealth detection of a larger amount then they get outside of 8m range.

Focslain
03-16-2016, 08:37 AM
Double recurve isn't 20% and even if it was, it is still a damage reduction within 8m range and is our self buff, not some addon to counter a ♥♥♥♥ty mechanic. That is like saying sorc's get insulating lens for their self buff, so within 8m of their attacker they get a reduction to their defense, shield absorb and stealth detection of a larger amount then they get outside of 8m range.

Thought it was 20%, rechecked and it's 9%. So nvm then.

Focslain
03-18-2016, 12:32 PM
Was looking for information on what was coming for archery in the KR version to hopefully understand what was coming here. Found these and wanted some help:

KR Archery skill page (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Farcheage.xlgames.com%2Fwikis&edit-text=&act=url) and KR endless arrows (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Farcheage.xlgames.com%2Fwikis&edit-text=&act=url)

So the endless arrows article is odd in it's length, but google translate is not helping much in context. There is also mention on the bottom of the archery page that we need to have precise shooting (sharpshooting for us) to make archery work as intended.

on a side note it looks like endless is getting boosted from 50% to 60%, but the other percentages (compared to the database site) are way off as the new ones are lower for other skills.

I'll leave these here incase someone else can make sense of what XL is trying to say on their own wiki.

Culland
03-19-2016, 10:42 PM
Was looking for information on what was coming for archery in the KR version to hopefully understand what was coming here. Found these and wanted some help:

KR Archery skill page (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Farcheage.xlgames.com%2Fwikis&edit-text=&act=url) and KR endless arrows (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Farcheage.xlgames.com%2Fwikis&edit-text=&act=url)

So the endless arrows article is odd in it's length, but google translate is not helping much in context. There is also mention on the bottom of the archery page that we need to have precise shooting (sharpshooting for us) to make archery work as intended.

on a side note it looks like endless is getting boosted from 50% to 60%, but the other percentages (compared to the database site) are way off as the new ones are lower for other skills.

I'll leave these here incase someone else can make sense of what XL is trying to say on their own wiki.

The links didnt work for me. There are some translations for what is coming. The endless boost is on bleeding targets i believe. The Sharpshooting comments are likely because XL games keeps stacking more onto the feral mark/feral aura system (soon there will be block/parry/evade reduction per stack of feral aura) which really makes sharpshooting a necessity for the extra +3 seconds on feral mark. I think the whole thing is flawed, but that is another topic.

Pwnocchio
03-21-2016, 09:48 AM
I think my spark is finally getting snuffed out.

I've done a good job of winning the economic war in Arch Age without hard-swiping. I'm ranked in the top 40 or so on my server for gear score, but I foolishly choose the path of the archer thinking 'yeah, o.k. they nerfed us, it will only be fore awhile'.

It's been over a year since the archery nerf began and they've consistantly continued to nerf it right through 2.5.

There is no way in hell I have the will to grind out another 100k gold to retask to Abolisher or Mageball meta, and I'm just done waiting for them to fix Archery.

Time to sort out my resources to friends still playing the game I think.

Calim
03-21-2016, 06:06 PM
Archer down RIP

:-/

Culland
03-22-2016, 08:58 AM
I think my spark is finally getting snuffed out.

I've done a good job of winning the economic war in Arch Age without hard-swiping. I'm ranked in the top 40 or so on my server for gear score, but I foolishly choose the path of the archer thinking 'yeah, o.k. they nerfed us, it will only be fore awhile'.

It's been over a year since the archery nerf began and they've consistantly continued to nerf it right through 2.5.

There is no way in hell I have the will to grind out another 100k gold to retask to Abolisher or Mageball meta, and I'm just done waiting for them to fix Archery.

Time to sort out my resources to friends still playing the game I think.

I have to admit the live stream of a couple weeks ago where Khrolan told us how after a year in the toilet his gift to Archers was 15 questions sent to XL games... that he didn't even share, really took some wind out of my sails as far as playing archer and this game.

In an MMO class balance will always shift and move, never being truly balanced but an ongoing juggling act trying to find the balance. This game has been more or less static balance wise for over a year and thus the meta of the game itself has become stagnant and frankly boring. Trion doesnt seem to care to push the issue (over a year of their 'caring' results in a list of 15 questions being sent) so is there really any hope for 'meaningful' change in the near future?

Pwnocchio
03-24-2016, 10:17 AM
Trion doesnt seem to care to push the issue (over a year of their 'caring' results in a list of 15 questions being sent) so is there really any hope for 'meaningful' change in the near future?

This will be my last post as a player on the matter.

Thinking it over all week... and finding a lot more of my friends play League of Legends and Civ5 than AA... I've decided that, like Trion, I also no longer care about the state of Archery in Arch Age.

I was patient.

You took.

Too long.

Mongoose X
03-24-2016, 12:42 PM
Kind of ironic that the original post about archery being under powered had a statement about 2.5 archery changes which in turn made them more under powered.

Culland
03-27-2016, 09:13 PM
Kind of ironic that the original post about archery being under powered had a statement about 2.5 archery changes which in turn made them more under powered.

Yea, I find it very discouraging that @Celestrata posted that we were getting changes in 2.5 and when that didn't happen, we actually became weaker with that patch due to indirect nerfs, and then never bothered to follow up with us at all on the topic, tell us why our buffs never happened or when we might be getting them.

HoleID
03-28-2016, 06:50 AM
They actually did answer in the last stream.
Next balance patch is add to the 2.9 update in may, the pety archery "buff" who came short time after 2.5 in Kr, get delay for that long, Yep.
But don't expect too much, this skill tree will still remain a pit hole.
They ask 15 questions about archery to xl, indeed, and got only one answer>Skill Queue will help, nothing more, nada, rien.

Khro even talked about the change of archery synergy in future patch, from Dps to crowd control.
Cause when you don't know what to do with a broken tree, you just fill the hole left from other class who don't want to do the dirty jobs.
Ask to the squishiest tree/class to control a horde of player who can melt them in One combo, Logic.
http://i.giphy.com/3osxYqkYs9sK4MG09y.gif
Guess it's time to play tanky Archer now... but Y bother with archery then.
Go full Br/defence+ whatever you will be a tank, a dps, and a CC, and if you still wanna play in a "smart" ways, then mageball the crowd and get a good LeL

Culland
03-28-2016, 12:05 PM
They actually did answer in the last stream.
Next balance patch is add to the 2.9 update in may, the pety archery "buff" who came short time after 2.5 in Kr, get delay for that long, Yep.


The link for anyone interested in hearing this rubbish: click here (https://www.twitch.tv/trionworlds/v/56419003?t=17m51s).

Summary:

1) he listed some of the questions, with one XL response in that the archer really needs the KR version of endless arrows and that all will be amazing in the world once we have it, which is of course ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and to Khrolan's credit he at least pointed that out. Not that it isnt a good thing, but it doesnt fix anything major and really if you think a fixed endless arrows helps us, look at what it will do for the game full of BR users with triple slash.

2) we are getting the changes promised for 2.5 in May for the 2.9 update, no real explanation why we have to wait till then

3) Khrolan mumbled through some crap about us becoming more of a control class... which really makes little sense at all. Going with the examples provided we would be a half ♥♥♥ control class just like we are a half ♥♥♥ DPS class now, how does that improve anything for archers? Here is an idea, how about we not be half-♥♥♥ at everything.

4) Khrolan spouted more excuses as to why Trion does not take any active involvement class balancing, personally it comes across more as 'we cant be bothered' than anything else

5) Khrolan said some stupid ♥♥♥♥ about agreeing that archers shouldnt be able to kill tanks, but really imo missed the point. Come to a high gear score server like Kyrios then tell me who are targets are supposed to be when you consider everyone has high physical defense, most folks have shield swaps, etc. No one gives a ♥♥♥♥ if we couldnt kill tanks, but at this point in the game for archery most everyone is a tank. Yay for the squishies in the crowd, but honestly it almost feels like bullying the same people over and over again because we have so few viable targets.

Mongoose X
03-28-2016, 01:18 PM
I'd agree that archers vs tanks should be a more difficult fight, but real class balance means no class is invincible to another, especially if one is just standing there. I'm on Kyrios too and one of the highest GS archers on the server, so ultimately GS doesn't even help.

Tanks should be difficult, not invincible.

Tiomun
03-31-2016, 02:11 PM
So according to the live stream archery will be a support class in 2.9.

Considering the massive amount of time, work and money many of us have put into the gear to be an archer can we get some kind of gear replacement or compensation?

#archerygate??

Mongoose X
03-31-2016, 07:15 PM
Only thing getting synergized will be the multiple accounts that cancel their subscriptions.

Rootytooty
03-31-2016, 10:39 PM
http://i.imgur.com/Xgj7Lew.png

How is this OK?

Why are there gems, obsidian bonuses, arena presets, etc. if this class isn't even supposed to be viable?

Can I get my ranged gems converted to melee? Can I get my obsidian gear changed to the melee variants?

I was always OK with archer being unforgiving in PvP and having to completely outplay opponents and be creative to win, but the new information we've been given is very bad.

If you can't influence XL to make changes, you can do things to allow us to keep playing the game and not force us into whatever role archery is supposed to have. Stunning someone falling out of a bubble is completely irrelevant to me because I do large raid PvP. Sleep is not a factor in raid fights, so the snipe combo is also irrelevant.

Of course you have to adapt to class changes and balancing, but 1v1 combos and classes have no place in raids. You cannot adapt to this.

Culland
04-01-2016, 06:37 AM
Can I get my ranged gems converted to melee? Can I get my obsidian gear changed to the melee variants?


Ultimately though, I am not sure what else I would want to play. I cant stand the idea of being the 900000000000000000000th battlerage faceroller, it would be so bloody boring and mages have never been my thing. When a game starts reducing the viable build options and play styles the game is going to die, imo.

What this game doesn't need more of is control classes, what it needs is stronger archers to put pressure on the mage ball meta. Instead according to Khrolan we get to be support with control that doesnt even bloody work with endgame meta.

The problem is Khrolan has always played on low gear score, non competitive servers and really has absolutely no idea what end game is like as an archer. The 100th gear score player on Kyrios would be #12 on Morpheus.

#savearchery-firekhrolan

Tiomun
04-01-2016, 06:50 AM
Agility is only used for DPS by archers, for all other classes agility isn't even a secondary stat. Considering this game has dedicated archery/agility specific armor and weapons focusing agility as a DPS spec. None of which is now viable if your going to play a support class since AGILITY doesn't do jack for these skills.

So even if I roll over and say "yeah. Ok!", I will heal and pretend my arrows do something in between. I would still need to respec out of my gear to be of any use at all.

Trion gladly takes our cash but looks the other way when Xl comes along to but ♥♥♥♥ us. Thanks Trino!

Rootytooty
04-01-2016, 08:04 AM
I don't know why you guys are blaming Khrolan. He didn't do this and he probably knows Morpheus gear progression will catch up to him soon.


Agility is only used for DPS by archers, for all other classes agility isn't even a secondary stat. Considering this game has dedicated archery/agility specific armor and weapons focusing agility as a DPS spec. None of which is now viable if your going to play a support class since AGILITY doesn't do jack for these skills.
Agility gives melee crit chance.

Tiomun
04-01-2016, 09:32 AM
I don't know why you guys are blaming Khrolan. He didn't do this and he probably knows Morpheus gear progression will catch up to him soon.


Agility gives melee crit chance.

Not in any way blaming Khrolan personally. Just saying we want Trion as a whole to pretty much do something, anything about the situation. Changing a DPS speck to a supplementary spec is not acceptable considering the amount of time, work, pain, and suffering it has taken to get our gear up as high as we have. If I could figure out a way to sue them to get back my time and money I would. But I cant so I'm just screwed I guess.

In general most Melee builds spec into stamina and strength (Primary/secondary depends on build). That's why I said it isn't even a secondary stat for most classes. Archery is the Only class that uses agility for its main base damage calculations. So having armor that main lines Agility like the T4 Obsidian evanescent armor. When I spec into a melee build with my gear, my melee DPS is 235. Even with crits its trash especially in PvP. I was able to get my melee DPS over 500 with a simple set of CR plate armor at heroic. More that 2x the Melee power 100% less expensive.

And just to add some contrast. That boost of Melee dps from a low tire set of armor brought up the melee damage to almost what I main line for ranged damage with a 5k gear score.

Wytchblades
04-01-2016, 12:02 PM
SO much harder to regear in NA vs KR. Unless they have insane damage combo's with archery with witchcraft , any other DPS class works better then archery. What do you intend to do to help re-gear, switch items if we are now a support class? Does XL not see this is a huge issue for players? Those left playing archery have to much money invested to just change all gears and gems at the drop of a hat.

Tiomun
04-01-2016, 12:14 PM
You know if they were changing sorcery or battle rage to be a supplementary skill they would be issuing a truck load of compensation packages out.

lowest
04-01-2016, 01:11 PM
So since we can't sell our obsidian archer gear, how about letting us exchange them for other classes gear then? Let us trade in regraded and tiered up obsidian archer armor for mage, healer, or melee obsidian of the same grade and gems. Let us trade in our epic, legendary, and mythic bows for Shortspears, Scepters, and Katanas of the same grade.

Nodoze
04-01-2016, 01:18 PM
So since we can't sell our obsidian archer gear, how about letting us exchange them for other classes gear then? Let us trade in regraded and tiered up obsidian archer armor for mage, healer, or melee obsidian of the same grade and gems. Let us trade in our epic, legendary, and mythic bows for Shortspears, Scepters, and Katanas of the same grade.Archery is so bad right now there are whole threads on servers basically saying "please stop playing Archers because you are hurting our faction" to the point that folk are ridiculed due lack of damage they do in PVP...

If they aren't going to fix Archery soon I would be supportive of GMs being authorized to help folk re-spec to equivalent cost gear within reason... You would have to be careful and have some screening process (maybe look at history, etc) as some folk may try to buy lower cost agility Ayanad or Delph gear and then try to get it swapped for prime Strength/Intelligence/Spirit gear and what not...

Tiomun
04-01-2016, 01:36 PM
Give us compensation in the form of gear or tokens that can be exchanged for it If we have T4 obsidian or higher archery gear.

Evanescent Armor, Flacon spears, Outlaw bows etc. All should be exchangeable fort the same tier and grade. Not to mention a nice chuink of honor, prestiege and gold for other gems/enchants

Trion cant claim its our choice to respeck. We're literally being crushed into quitting this class. Saying that would be like your land lord turning off your water and saying its your choice if you stay or move out, but your never going to be able to use your toilet, take a shower or have a drink of water as long as you stay here.

lowest
04-01-2016, 01:56 PM
Even if they did that, re-gemming everything is going to suck. To be honest, the thought of putting in months of honor farming (because you can't even pay people to re-gem bound gear, which is just about everything best-in-slot now, thanks to no Ayanad designs), forcing in t3 gems, and generating enough prestige is very daunting.

Culland
04-01-2016, 05:55 PM
Not in any way blaming Khrolan personally.

I blame him personally, not sure why we shouldnt? He is a senior producer and ultimately the buck stops somewhere.

We give our money to Trion and thus we are their customers. We are not the customers of XL games.

It is a decision by Trion to stay out of class balance, as has been expressed in the past. They didnt say they couldn't be involved, it is their choice not to be. So we as Trion's customers have been crapped on for over a year, and by the looks of it will continue to be crapped on, and Trion is doing nothing about it by taking a 'wait and see' approach. Yea I am going to blame that on Khrolan, because in over a year his great accomplishment for archery is coming up with a list of 15 questions for XL, only half of which came from the community and we have had to beg for 3ish weeks now to even get to see those questions. Khrolan is a part time archer on a non-competitive server with no actual experience in the end game, and we are relying on him to be our voice?

I think its also important to note that this whole 'support/control' stuff is more or less just his opinion, and that makes him responsible for spreading it around. If you watch the 24th life stream he indicates that the only response they got from XL games is that skill que/KR version of endless arrows is really important. So all he has to go on for his proclamation of our new role, as far as has been mentioned, is the future patch notes from KR that we have all seen. Snipe gets a knockdown on slept target, which arguably works much better for auromancy/leech than witchcraft and we get a stun on a target that's air born that would work with bubble. Am I missing something, because that is not a control role and it has absolutely no use in end game meta. Where is the support role? We lower a targets defenses so other people can kill them, is that our support role?

Perhaps Khrolan has more information than we have gotten from KR patch notes, I doubt it, but if that is the true than he should be sharing that because nothing we have seen from the KR patch notes fits his opinion that we are moving towards a support/control role. Frankly unless the information on direction is coming from XL games themselves, it is just weak speculation at this point.

Ultimately I hold the CM and Khrolan responsible for how long this has been going on and how little information we are actually given. We get a 'hah hah save archery' blip once a week on the live stream, announced like its a big joke by our CM. After 2.5 they could have come out and said 'sorry, the archery buffs were not in there, we will see if we can get them before 2.9' and then follow up with us to let us know whats going on. Instead we get nothing from them until they finally admitted we wont see anything until May.

Exavion
04-01-2016, 08:02 PM
The only way Trion can save this mess is to unbind our gear and allow us to swap for melee equivalents.

Ryuki
04-01-2016, 09:50 PM
Well makes you wanna vomit after seeing how clueless that guy is. Support class while having over 900 agility unbuffed, gear worth ~200k gold? For 10k gold we can choose to play diffrent class and be better support then what we are right now with over 6k gs, you clueless potato farmer. Archery needs damage increase not damn CC's from witchcraft combos, you do realize we are asking for Archery tree to be buffed, you do realize there is skill tree called Archery??? After reading patch notes I only saw 1 combo that is buff and then just to find out it was mistranslated. Being able to stun target from max range with Float combo to interupt heal was nice but for enemy to be airborn to stun it is just completly useless for both 1v1 and mass pvp.

Snipe trips slept targets? How is this helping at all for PvP? This is only good for 1v1 arena that we can do 5 per day nowdays and noone gives a ♥♥♥♥ about that.

Deacrease mana cost on our skills. Anyone who plays Archer knows that in new "Balanced Arena" you will run out of mana before you take even half HP from Defensive Fighter even if you manage to stay alive somehow for that long.

Increase success rate of skills to 100% (Snipe,Toxic Shot, Piercing shot,). Damage output even when we manage to land a shot on someone is just pothetic and most of the time is just blocked or parried anyway.

Charged bolt CD was increased but duration of slow was not increased at all. Think you need to add 2-3 sec on slow duration on this skill to balance it.

Boneyard needs to be replaced completly since you are clearly not capable of fixing this skill to work like it should.

Feral Mark passive stacks should be fixed also, once we reach 30 stacks on enemy we should have option to use stun when we want or in next 10sec after reaching 30 stacks. Right now that stun will be dodged, parried, blocked 90% of the time and we loose all 30 stacks and enemys defense resets back to normal. Ill rather keep enemys defense lowerd then have 1/20 chance to stun enemy for 2sec randomly (since we have no clue how many stacks is on enemy right now, it doesnt show).

Endless Arrows, tbh you can remove this ♥♥♥♥ completly and you wouldnt effect us, basic shot is better then this ♥♥♥♥.


Right now Archery is only good for PVE, by far best DPS class on mobs ( Just dont forget to bring 2 characters to recharge ur mana or be rdy to waste 100g per 30min on mana pots. )

Graid
04-02-2016, 07:07 AM
It's disappointing that they care so little about trying to push XL for actual BALANCE in terms of class viability that they would willingly let a DPS skillset become 'support'. I know people in this game tend to just point and laugh at those who suffer from the changes in class viability rather than show any empathy over it, but fact is, this is a sign of a worrying lack of care for trying at all to make class balance fit the game we're playing, as opposed to what they're doing in Korea.

Kav
04-02-2016, 04:22 PM
THEY MAKE MORE MONEY BY FORCING ARCHERS TO SWIPE TO REMAIN RELEVANT THAN FIXING YOUR CLASS.
Wake Up Sheeple!

Veile
04-03-2016, 01:59 AM
Over the past year or so the rhetoric from Trion went from "Social Savvy is what will save archery" to "We're all about the healer archer hybrid" to "We're bringing up your concerns with XL games in the form of 20 questions, I mean 15 questions" and last but not least "We're changing the class from Damage to Support".

An entire year of our feedback to your inconsistent, and sometimes downright mind boggling (social savvy, really?) answers to fixing the issues around the class and your latest contribution to this is something along the lines of "We can't fix the Damage issues with the class, so we're just going to call it Support with a couple of daggerspell-like combos".

Am I to assume that you're washing your hands off this topic with your statement saying "It is XL's game" in the latest livestream?

At least you helped me make my mind up as to whether to continue playing the game.

Benkei
04-03-2016, 04:56 PM
Last update by Celestrata, remained at 13th January 2016. Totally no updates? If that is so, please close the thread.

Rootytooty
04-03-2016, 06:09 PM
Last update by Celestrata, remained at 13th January 2016. Totally no updates? If that is so, please close the thread.
Updates have been in livestreams

Rootytooty
04-03-2016, 08:05 PM
I have very good gear and until the multipliers were reduced, I had no problem with archery since launch. I got lots of kills and did plenty of damage. If I died in a raid or lost a fight, it was because I SCREWED UP.

I started to get frustrated after the multipliers were reduced because I had to use an honor pot to do as much damage as before. Players on Kraken were generally worse at the game and had worse gear than people on Kyrios, so I was still fine. Still, as they progressed their gear quickly, I was doing even less damage.

On Kyrios, I'm next to useless because I don't do any damage. I can sometimes find someone with a 2h weapon and bother them. I have zero confidence in my class.

I have a very good shortspear I will use to play darkrunner with when 2.9 comes out. I stopped investing in archery months ago. You win. I'm done with it.

Primeval is probably the hardest class to play in this game and has been for awhile. You are not able to make mistakes and you have to work twice as hard for kills. That's why I like it. I don't want to play melee.

It's about time you just told us that you want us to change class instead of making us hold on for dear life until archer is fixed. I won't waste anymore of my time. Thank you. Can't wait to chain trip people. If there's some way you can help me switch my gear, it would be great.

Benkei
04-03-2016, 08:13 PM
Updates have been in livestreams

But Trion still need to update this thread. :)

Gbg
04-04-2016, 01:52 AM
Trion is a fuc... joke i make a ticket today that i want trion to switch my gear to equivalent gear of my choice as they tricked me saying archery is phys dmg in character creation... and now they say in live stream its a support class

Tiomun
04-04-2016, 07:59 AM
Honestly the worst part of all of this.

I absolutely love playing an archer. Its almost always my main class in every mmo I have played. Its ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that Trion so willingly takes our money, but wont do anything at all to work with XL to push for class balance, or at the very least stand up for us and keep us from being screwed over.

I'm done with archery in this game. RIP the last year and a half of hard work.

brotherfisties
04-04-2016, 02:40 PM
Something really needs to be done here. The AA team over at Try-on need to actually play the game and get a real since of what the balance should be like FOR OUR SERVER. Not Korea. Plus I don't see how making archery viable would at all hurt Try-on or XL. If anything, this will bring out the wales that want to gear archery but don't due to it being useless in all forms of endgame PvP.

Ryuki
04-04-2016, 07:18 PM
"ARCHERY IS TURNING INTO A ROLE THAT SYNERGIZES VERY WELL WITH WITCHCRAFT AND HAS FALLEN INTO MORE OF A SUPPLEMENTAL SKILL RATHER THAN A PRIMARY DPS SKILL" - Khrolan 3/31/2016.

Just look how the guy is clueless about game. His claiming we are moved to more of a support class because we got 1 new combo that gives us 1.5sec stun if we go for Witchcraft Bubble.

1.5sec!!! You do realize that even if its 5 or 10sec it doesnt ♥♥♥♥ing matter, since we have no dmg!!! Who in the right mind would switch to Witchcraft for 1.5sec stun? Cant wait to see new livestream and you saying how that was april fools joke, since I refuse to believe our faith is in hands of people like you.

Calim
04-04-2016, 07:28 PM
Well I guess trion loses all Archers cause we have to quit the game..

Benkei
04-04-2016, 07:32 PM
Well I guess trion loses all Archers cause we have to quit the game..

Yeah, most of them have changed to Skullknight or Revenant which makes this game more imbalance.

Exavion
04-04-2016, 11:10 PM
Well I guess trion loses all Archers cause we have to quit the game..

This is sadly the case. In most games you could just change class with new tiers of raid gear or sell off your equipment. In my case and many archer friends we have no choice but to start the gear game from the ground up. Yes I know Obsidian becomes unbound but for most of us we're way past that being an option anymore.

Nodoze
04-05-2016, 06:24 AM
This is sadly the case. In most games you could just change class with new tiers of raid gear or sell off your equipment. In my case and many archer friends we have no choice but to start the gear game from the ground up. Yes I know Obsidian becomes unbound but for most of us we're way past that being an option anymore.Even if you weren't at the end of reasonably upgradeable tiers (Celestial grade gear typically isn't upgraded past T4 & Divine typically stops at T5) it would still be Archery gear which would be pawning off gear to some newb or unsuspecting Hunter from Wow or another MMO where Archery works.

I agree that they should allow exchanges of archery obsidian for at least melee obsidian (both are Leather at least so roughly same wisp value/cost).

Anyone know if in 2.9 whether armor, like weapons, can go to T7 and change their T6 v1/v2 types to T7 v1-v4 types?

Tiomun
04-05-2016, 08:22 AM
So I spent the last day and a half going back and forth with Support.

Yesterday they were quite rude about the entire issue, but today A new GM responded and was far nicer to talk with.

They politely told me that they will not be issuing any form of compensation or assistance in respecing, and that they as usual will take our archery grievances into "consideration".

So in other words RIP archery.

Focslain
04-05-2016, 08:46 AM
Anyone know if in 2.9 whether armor, like weapons, can go to T7 and change their T6 v1/v2 types to T7 v1-v4 types?

From the base article on the KR site it appears they can.

Rootytooty
04-05-2016, 09:25 AM
They politely told me that they will not be issuing any form of compensation or assistance in respecing, and that they as usual will take our archery grievances into "consideration".
https://media.giphy.com/media/13MS5BwKSJFylq/giphy.gif

just

Glove
04-05-2016, 11:06 AM
Not the first time I have posted this but XL really should watch this video:


watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk/


+1 save archery.

brotherfisties
04-05-2016, 12:55 PM
As long as I am playing AA, I will continue to ask that my class be balanced. Hopefully after long enough, something will actually be fixed.

Calim
04-05-2016, 02:01 PM
As long as I am playing AA, I will continue to ask that my class be balanced. Hopefully after long enough, something will actually be fixed.

Yet they keep going in the opposite direction. They tell us one thing, then do another, then blame XL.

Ryuki
04-06-2016, 12:16 AM
@Celestrata @Khrolan
@Khrolan

Archery is turning into a role that synergizes very well with witchcraft and has fallen into more of a supplemental skill rather than a primary DPS skill.

When you say Archery that goes for Archery+any other 2 skill trees. Let me make it simple for you. Im full glass cannon Primeval with almost 1.1 Range Attack fully potted and Im doing miserable dmg during GvG fights where everyone else is fully poted.(on Rangora 6months old server, where most of the player are undergeared for me) Since you dont know anything about the game, I can tell you that Archery+Shadowplay+Auramancy (Primeval) is by far best DPS Archery class ingame you can spec to. Do you see our problem now? Droping Auramancy or Shadowplay will make that class almost unplable cuz it can give you just more tankiness but will drop huge amount of dmg that you dont even have as Primeval.

Lets talk more about what you said. Could you provide us with more information about changes that synergizes so well with Witchcraft that is making us Support class. Some of us might stay and play if you give as information that you are hiding right now, otherwise you gonna loose 90% of Archers from the game (probably not more then 100total overall, dead class already). You can't be seriously thinking 1 combo that gives us stun of 3sec(1.5 in pvp) is being good synergy with Witchcraft where you will loose over 50% dmg if you drop either Shadowplay or Auramancy for it. (50% of almost non existant dmg already). You do realize there is skill called Throw Dagger in Shadowplay that already has combo with Charge Bolt for 3sec stun? (yes 3sec in pvp also)
Snipe combo, gives trip if used on slept target? Did you also refer to this one that it goes well with Witchcraft? Let me open your eyes once again, you know there is skill called Leach and sleeps target for 4sec and you can use it with Snipe in incoming patch? So once again I didnt see anything that is supporting your statment here. (Also this is comepltly useless everywhere else except 1v1 arena)
Like I said you must be hiding some information from us, since you couldnt possibly give statement like this on live stream based on only this information.

Skill Queue if it's same like the one you implemented for few days few months ago, is also huge downgrade for everyone that has avarage ping ~80. During few days when we had Skill Queue I was shooting Basic Arrow faster then Endless Arow and was doing more DMG with it and wasnt wasting any mana. Archer who gets locked and is not able to port in time to avoid running away from his enemy cuz of Endless Arrow spam is not good player at all, so all I can tell you Skill Queue if its same like it was is gonna be end of Archery for PVE also. (Only thing that Archery is good right now)

While we know that some of what XL is looking to do with the Archery class may not fit in with your intended play styles, this is a direction XL is very interested in going with Archery.

Arent you able to increase base damage of Archery Skills easily? What has XL to do with that? You can do it, its just you refuse to do it. Its not like you need to invent wheel, you just need to give back some of the buffs that we had in previous versions (Not all ofc, since we were broken class, way OP during AA start)

@Celestrata

Ok, coming on forums and saying if you don't like where Archery is heading you can switch and play another class. Read above and you will realize there is nothing to switch too, to feel usefull at all.

I have t6 Epic Bow (~50k gold), t5 Divine Obsidian set (~90k gold) fully gemmed (over 600k honor and 15k gold invested). Dear Celestrata please explain me what I can do with this gear? Since its all Agility and Archery is only skill tree that needs Agility I cant do anything with my gear. Option is, break all pieces, get wisps out of it and sell it and get 15k gold from it.

Now tell me, do you think 15k gold is enough to reroll class and play endgame content and enjoy PvP?


@Celestrata@Khrolan
You digged whole so deep for yourself with last stream that Im not sure you can pull out.
Options:
1. Give us full patch notes and explanation why you think we are heading towards support role.
2. Give us buff in damage on all skills that are in Archery skill tree.
3. Give us option to exchange our Agility Obsidian Parts for Strength ones or even Cloth/Plate Obsidian of same tier. (Same goes for Auroria pieces) Same goes for Bows.
4. if you do step 3, remove Archery completly from the game afterwards so you dont trick new players into same ♥♥♥♥ we went threw over the years of lies hoping for better tomorrow.

Forward this message to ur dear friend Khrolan and think about it, pretty sure this is how 90% of Archer feel like and would agree with this.

Have no clue how hard it was to type this and not call you any names.

Rootytooty
04-06-2016, 01:45 PM
Bring back bloodthirst generation and combo with piercing shot that increases damage and dismounts target
Concussive arrow out of range behavior like freezing arrow
Bring bow damage in line with equivalent one-handed melee/magic weapons
Piercing shot and toxic shot always hit (like charged bolt)
Shadowstep cooldown reset chance increased to 75% in an archery passive
Balanced arena archer base movement speed of 6.5 m/s

Any of these would be huge

maloci
04-06-2016, 06:07 PM
if archery is turned into a support class i and my 7 patron alts will be leaving this game 120 playable classes my ♥♥♥

Whtever
04-07-2016, 08:12 AM
Even if you weren't at the end of reasonably upgradeable tiers (Celestial grade gear typically isn't upgraded past T4 & Divine typically stops at T5) it would still be Archery gear which would be pawning off gear to some newb or unsuspecting Hunter from Wow or another MMO where Archery works.

I agree that they should allow exchanges of archery obsidian for at least melee obsidian (both are Leather at least so roughly same wisp value/cost).

Anyone know if in 2.9 whether armor, like weapons, can go to T7 and change their T6 v1/v2 types to T7 v1-v4 types?

Make obs tradable is not the solution. It's not fair to some of us who chose the delphinad path and sacrificed the obsidian passives just to have tradable gear. They should fix the class instead.

Noidas
04-08-2016, 01:20 AM
Can you add +5% Range damage to the 2 hand weapon buff?

Most of the classes have a stacking buff from one of their passive skills (except Defense, Auramancy and Witchcraft). It would make sense to move the Feral Mark stacking buff from the two active skills they currently are on to one of the passive skills that is somewhat underwhelming (Probably the skill cooldown passive). Which gives the main hand for Archers more versatility compare to being locked into a Obsidian Shortspear/Longspear. This, or

Make new stacking buff on one of the passives (once again I would suggest the skill cooldown passive) that addresses some of the complaints the Archery players have. From what I have read: doing 1 damage with Endless Arrow(Sucks), having 50% of their skills blocked(Opponent specced that way for a reason), and mana consumption(Sucks) seem to be the dominate issues. Let's take a look at the current buffs from each class

Battlerage: 3rd passive - 5 stacks max for each Battlerage Critical or 3rd hit of Whirlwind Slash = +10% Melee Crit Rate + 50% Melee Crit Dmg 5% Bleed Chance (Dunno if this stacks to 25%).
Sorcery: 4th passive - 8 stacks max for 3rd Firebolt hit, Frigid Track or Magic Circle = +16% Attack Speed -16% Cast Time -16% Sorcery Skill Cooldown -24% Physical Defense.
Songcraft: 4th passive - 15 stacks max one every 3 seconds playing a performance skill = +105 Magic/Heal Attack -6 second Songcraft Skill Cooldown +Startling Strain Buff.
Occultism: 3rd passive - 15 stacks max for every target hit by Hell Spear, Summon Crow, Stillness = +45% Occultism Skill Damage and 8m AoE -15% Heal Effectiveness and Attack.
Vitalism: 6th passive - 5 stacks max for Antithesis, Fervent Heal, or Mend = -10% Cast Time and some weird ♥♥♥♥.

Archery: 3rd passive - 10 stacks max for each Archery Critial or Piercing Shot = +20-40% shield penetration rate +40% shield penetration -20% Mana Consumption 2-5% Slow Chance (Dunno if this should stack, if it does then max at 20%)

Kaneda
04-14-2016, 06:41 AM
Indeed, good geared archers dont use those 2 skills that instantly triggers feral mark.
Except for pve content maybe.
Why?
Because those 2 skills force the archer to stay at one place for many seconds.
Meanwhile every archer knows you cant stay at one place as an archer and that you have to move constantly to keep your distance from the enemy group, otherwise it's instakill because we are a squeashy class (as primeval).
Getting that feral mark trigger on a passive skill, maybe remove the ranged accuracy passive skill which is also not used by most of us.
Yet, I often use the cooldown reduction passive which is really nice for dps on world bosses, so it will still be nice to keep it for pve/world boss content. If you ask me to remove it for a feral mark passive, I would accept right away!
Same goes for Float, if you ask me to remove it for a Freerunner, I would accept right away.



Also switching the Freerunner skill from shadowplay to the archery skilltree would be a good idea.
That way, it would nerf darkrunners, and buff the archers at the same time.
Also put a kind of passive critical rate increase passive like the piercing from shadowplay, would be more of a use.
Or make a piercing passive skill which would state for its name "Piercing" that would increase armor penetration, just like the Puncture battlerage passive. or again something like a shield/block penetration passive that would stack...

there are many solutions and you have already a lot of examples from other skilltrees.

Also, I play arcane hunter (archery/auramancy/witchcraft) recently, i just do some dps from far , use some controls and let my witchcraft pet do the damage...
which is not a viable solution at all !

Eventually, change the Agility bonuses given to melee critical rate and ranged critical rate. with 1070 agility i get 25.1% ranged crittical rate while i get 34,9% !!! melee critical rate. why dont you switch those 2 effect gains from agility.

I mean archery is the only class that need to be almost full agility (mono stat) to get a "decent" damage, meanwhile mages or melee if they go full strengh or full intelligence they will do insane damage!

RECAP:

-Battlerage Puncture'like passive skill in archery skilltree
-Shadowplay Piercing'like passive skill in archery skilltree
-Freerunner skill in archery skilltree
-Feral mark stack/trigger as a passive (Noidas idea)
- buff Agility stat bonuses for archery not for melee or whatever classes

Xetic
04-22-2016, 12:14 AM
Indeed, good geared archers dont use those 2 skills that instantly triggers feral mark.
Except for pve content maybe.
Why?
Because those 2 skills force the archer to stay at one place for many seconds.
Meanwhile every archer knows you cant stay at one place as an archer and that you have to move constantly to keep your distance from the enemy group, otherwise it's instakill because we are a squeashy class (as primeval).
Getting that feral mark trigger on a passive skill, maybe remove the ranged accuracy passive skill which is also not used by most of us.
Yet, I often use the cooldown reduction passive which is really nice for dps on world bosses, so it will still be nice to keep it for pve/world boss content. If you ask me to remove it for a feral mark passive, I would accept right away!
Same goes for Float, if you ask me to remove it for a Freerunner, I would accept right away.



Also switching the Freerunner skill from shadowplay to the archery skilltree would be a good idea.
That way, it would nerf darkrunners, and buff the archers at the same time.
Also put a kind of passive critical rate increase passive like the piercing from shadowplay, would be more of a use.
Or make a piercing passive skill which would state for its name "Piercing" that would increase armor penetration, just like the Puncture battlerage passive. or again something like a shield/block penetration passive that would stack...

there are many solutions and you have already a lot of examples from other skilltrees.

Also, I play arcane hunter (archery/auramancy/witchcraft) recently, i just do some dps from far , use some controls and let my witchcraft pet do the damage...
which is not a viable solution at all !

Eventually, change the Agility bonuses given to melee critical rate and ranged critical rate. with 1070 agility i get 25.1% ranged crittical rate while i get 34,9% !!! melee critical rate. why dont you switch those 2 effect gains from agility.

I mean archery is the only class that need to be almost full agility (mono stat) to get a "decent" damage, meanwhile mages or melee if they go full strengh or full intelligence they will do insane damage!

RECAP:

-Battlerage Puncture'like passive skill in archery skilltree
-Shadowplay Piercing'like passive skill in archery skilltree
-Freerunner skill in archery skilltree
-Feral mark stack/trigger as a passive (Noidas idea)
- buff Agility stat bonuses for archery not for melee or whatever classes

We dont need Feral Mark on a passive wtf?! we have our obsidian shortspears / obsidian longspears anyway ...
Freerunner in archeryskill tree? No thanks .. archer + shadowplay should rly sync insane
Rather pref. we get a passive like the meele puncture .. that increases our critrate/critdmg
+Change Feral mark in a way that it gives the explosion, but then as long as you refresh the stacks it stays at 30 and gives you the statboost we need .. we dont rly need another trip on tanks .. pref. the defpen that we get with 30 stacks :(

Yasu
04-22-2016, 01:13 AM
Change feral mark like manastar is going to change would be a good start : stack stay until you reach the max.

Mayagi
04-22-2016, 11:22 AM
OMG just fix it already we have been waiting for so long, and spent thousands of gold just trying to do a bit more damage but still we get nothing out of it
please just fix it for us

DissentNotWelcome1
04-27-2016, 09:47 AM
The information in the reddit post are right :<

1: How exactly did the stat costumes effect the balance between each of the meta classes in KR?
http://i.imgur.com/ESojFRC.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/WBIUbcS.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/MkQyirj.png
http://i.imgur.com/xjY43tA.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/Ehka8EN.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/XhjGgq3.png
http://i.imgur.com/2NL9a32.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/sMnNr6J.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/05hHzf1.png
http://i.imgur.com/LS0r2kp.png

2: What adjustments (if any) were made to compensate for the lack of stat costumes in the NA/EU versions? no adjustments m8

Super late reply due to lack of confidence in Trion making any headway with these arguments, but..
thank you so much for providing the info!!

DissentNotWelcome1
04-27-2016, 09:53 AM
Well if they added in the stats to the store customes, then yeah this game would be more p2w then it already is. Which is why they were removed.

Now was looking at this, not sure IF XL has this in the wings, but what about attaching stats to the Ayanard costumes form the library. At least then the person would have to earn those bonuses.

Honestly, I think they were removed to create a false sense of concern for the well being of the spirit of gaming in ArcheAge. It is a very direct means of paying to win in the KR version, so it was removed. The game is still very much p2w, so It feels like it was a public relations decision, not one of merit.

Culland
04-30-2016, 09:50 PM
The issue with difference in costumes is that it screws with game balance. Trion picks and chooses what they allow from the KR game all while claiming to leave balance to XL games. KR skills, KR Costumes, big impact on archery and then Trion uses 'its up to XL' as an excuse as to why they do nothing.