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Jokerrr
04-26-2016, 09:42 PM
Hello i am a new player i have Divine Tier 5 Sword which is pretty good but i need to know if Shortspear is better and if it is which shortspear is better cause a guy told me that i must use the falcorth shortspear which gives range critical attack and not the one with healing is that good?i cant decide helppp pls

Aeducan76
04-27-2016, 04:26 AM
Afaik the "Feral Mark" effect that is applied provides 1800 PDef penetration. That + proc from BR and accessories should hit hard.

Also Agility is not a total waste on a melee.

The heal version gives you more options, but if you wanna seriously heal youŽd go for a club imho.

AeroSolz
04-27-2016, 06:29 AM
Shortspear V1 no matter what...
Ur revitalizing cheer scales with healing power so u would be unkillable to melee

Kutay
04-27-2016, 07:34 AM
Obsidian shortspear.To share puncture and healing bonus.

Rootytooty
04-27-2016, 02:09 PM
Posts in this thread are confusing

Obsidian shortspear has two variants. One (V1) has stam and decreases cast time. The other (V2) has agility and gives ranged attacks a chance to stack a defense penetration debuff.

Since you aren't/shouldn't be using ranged attacks, the V2 effect won't be useful unless you want to use archery. Both have the same healing power. Agility gives you melee crit rate and stamina gives you health and parry. Cast time reduction also effects casts like sandwiches, summoning, etc. although melee uses almost only instant-casts.

Swords have a hidden passive that gives a chance to parry after a received hit. Shortspears have a chance to ignore all defense for one hit. The spear passive is considered the best of all melee weapons, but it's not worth switching from a bound T5 to an equivalent spear. If you upgrade, it should be for more DPS like an epic obsidian or divine ayanad weapon.

Gamemako
04-27-2016, 03:07 PM
Afaik the "Feral Mark" effect that is applied provides 1800 PDef penetration. That + proc from BR and accessories should hit hard.

The heal version gives you more options, but if you wanna seriously heal youŽd go for a club imho.

Feral Mark only applies to ranged attacks. At this time, shortspears have the same healing power as clubs and are favored over clubs for pure healers; this will likely change with the slight nerf in 2.9 (shortspear loses 5% of healing power).


Shortspear V1 no matter what...
Ur revitalizing cheer scales with healing power so u would be unkillable to melee

That is only 100% of healing power bonus on top of the rest, so you get like 575 extra heal with an epic T5 weapon with 13% heal temper. That is on top of the 3000 from mettle and the base amount, and is per 45 seconds. Not worth taking for that alone, especially when you could compare to sword which offers a parry of likely equal or greater value.

So getting to OP's question, it depends. If you don't play anything else, axe or sword are favored over shortspear. The reason for that is that shortspear does not get a damage bonus against leather where sword does, and the offensive passive is balanced against the critical damage bonus on sword. Axe has the best offensive capacity since it can often give you bleed bonus on Precision that you might otherwise lack, and axe is also getting a nice buff in 2.9 in the form of doubled penetration bonus.

I personally would go shortspear since I'm inclined to play multiple classes. If you're just doing abo all day or don't care about playing a healing class like pally, I'd go axe. Sword is fine too if you fancy it. In any case, the differences are not large, so don't stress too hard about it.

Moleman
04-28-2016, 01:34 PM
I run abolisher with both a t5 divine sword and t5 divine v2 shortspear. the way it plays out is, the sword procs parry resetting alot of key skills making it easier to keep pressure on someone, close gaps, spam tiger etc. it's nice BUT

with your skills set up right, some parry gems, a good amount of strength you're gonig to parry reset these skills alot anyways. the spear procs that sweet pdef reduction which versus a more geared player is sometimes the only way you actually do damage. I like v1's stamina over v2's agility. neither spear's bonus (feral mark vs. cast speed) seems to help abolisher tho.

if you outgear everyone (GL with that) i'd say sword. if you need to hit plate even leather wearers with 1k+ GS better than you, spear to me is no brainer.

Gamemako
04-28-2016, 05:14 PM
I run abolisher with both a t5 divine sword and t5 divine v2 shortspear. the way it plays out is, the sword procs parry resetting alot of key skills making it easier to keep pressure on someone, close gaps, spam tiger etc. it's nice BUT

with your skills set up right, some parry gems, a good amount of strength you're gonig to parry reset these skills alot anyways. the spear procs that sweet pdef reduction which versus a more geared player is sometimes the only way you actually do damage. I like v1's stamina over v2's agility. neither spear's bonus (feral mark vs. cast speed) seems to help abolisher tho.

if you outgear everyone (GL with that) i'd say sword. if you need to hit plate even leather wearers with 1k+ GS better than you, spear to me is no brainer.

There are two factors here which should really explain how close shortspear and sword end up being, and why it's kind of irrelevant which you choose.

Sword naturally gets cut bonuses against leather, where thrust bonuses do not apply to leather. This bonus does not have any cooldown and is always 15% additional damage. I do not know the chance to apply, but it is fairly common. Once you do the accounting for the critical damage bonus on the v2 sword, you will find that it is around 1-1.5% more damage depending on build. The shortspear penetration effect has a 15-second cooldown after applying. This means it can take 18-20 seconds between hits. For this reason the benefit tops out in extreme situations at 2-3% DPS bonus, and usually closer to 1-2%. This means that sword raw offense is almost guaranteed to be better against leather, but also likely slightly weaker against plate. Cloth is likely to fall pretty close to even since penetration effect's value is much lower and both get the 15% bonus. I do not know the cooldown on the parry proc, but I imagine that it is not greater than 45 seconds (that would match the longest cooldown I know of, which is the katana crit). Since the defensive bonus of a shortspear is just 500-600 on use with 45-second cooldown ability, it is fairly likely that the parried hit or hits will equal or exceed the defensive value of the shortspear, but only against melee attackers. Similarly, those parry procs will boost offense in some small way, and again only against melee. So yeah, small advantages here and there depending on the exact target, but really pretty meaningless differences overall.

The axe's penetration bonus will soon be up to the 300-400 range, which will flat-out crush both sword and shortspear offensively, but provide no defensive bonus.

Kutay
04-29-2016, 06:17 PM
There are two factors here which should really explain how close shortspear and sword end up being, and why it's kind of irrelevant which you choose.

Sword naturally gets cut bonuses against leather, where thrust bonuses do not apply to leather. This bonus does not have any cooldown and is always 15% additional damage. I do not know the chance to apply, but it is fairly common. Once you do the accounting for the critical damage bonus on the v2 sword, you will find that it is around 1-1.5% more damage depending on build. The shortspear penetration effect has a 15-second cooldown after applying. This means it can take 18-20 seconds between hits. For this reason the benefit tops out in extreme situations at 2-3% DPS bonus, and usually closer to 1-2%. This means that sword raw offense is almost guaranteed to be better against leather, but also likely slightly weaker against plate. Cloth is likely to fall pretty close to even since penetration effect's value is much lower and both get the 15% bonus. I do not know the cooldown on the parry proc, but I imagine that it is not greater than 45 seconds (that would match the longest cooldown I know of, which is the katana crit). Since the defensive bonus of a shortspear is just 500-600 on use with 45-second cooldown ability, it is fairly likely that the parried hit or hits will equal or exceed the defensive value of the shortspear, but only against melee attackers. Similarly, those parry procs will boost offense in some small way, and again only against melee. So yeah, small advantages here and there depending on the exact target, but really pretty meaningless differences overall.

The axe's penetration bonus will soon be up to the 300-400 range, which will flat-out crush both sword and shortspear offensively, but provide no defensive bonus.


This interesting and it seems Battle axes will be much better and Battlerage Precision strike with puncture and Delirium will be even more OP.

I wonder how will it all end by means of rebalance.Is this with completion of 2.5 or upcoming 2.9 ?

I remember Celestrata mentioned the changes from 2.5 are not applied as a whole yet.