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Chasun
06-01-2016, 06:42 PM
Hi,

Let me start this off by saying, I've started playing this game back in...February/march? I have been pay to win, spending nearly a 1,000 dollars getting cash shop packs, bloodsong 150 pack, the brand new 150 pack and apex. I've been going balls to the wall for healer gear for that entire time. Normally I play a healer and I enjoy it in mmo's. But I hate it in this game.

I get curb stomped all day every day...I thought it was just gear gap, my lack of toughness and resilience. So I selected the healer gear pack, thinking the boost to my gear set bonsus and the bracers / belt which pushes me to 20k hp, 1,900 relisience, and slighty over 2000 toughness. I still get my ♥♥♥♥ pushed in.

I've read through the healer thread multiple times, I've tried templar, caretaker, soothsayer, cleric, etc. They all just get swarmed by darkrunners and die in a couple of hits, that Im tripped the entire time with and then die.

So I picked the wrong free gear pack, now I find myself really wishing I had picked the mage or archer gear packs, and hoping beyond hope that they will give me a do over in that area and let me pick up a different gear package.

Because all my gear is obsidian t4 and my weapons are obsidian t4 (one handed mace, shortspear, 2h greatclub, and shield) all at celestial....since its all bound and untradable, and its insane amounts of wisps to get them tradeable. Im finding myself severly discouraged from continuing idk if I have in me the money and enthusiasm to start from scratch on a completely new gear set.

I guess this is more of a post venting my frustrations and Im aware most of the responses to this will be to "git gud" or nose down and grind it out. But Im just sharing my despair.

Battlehawke
06-01-2016, 07:56 PM
Give this a try. Zero offense though, so group pvp is best.


http://earlygame.net/archeage/builds/4491-War_Cleric_Unstoppable_Juggernaut_PT_BR_EN_US#10.3 .4/txE8zkgJAsv

VisaTheMedic
06-01-2016, 09:06 PM
Okay, so first off...
That healer thread is kinda useless IMO for PvP healing. Healing in PvP is not something you'll be able to do efficiently or effectively just by reading a guide comprised of a bunch of healers who honestly probably don't PvP that often (not saying that no one in that thread PvP's, just that you've gotta remember that there are a lot of carebears out there, carebears that probably contributed to that thread, and with a huge lack of theorycrafting in this game, it probably made sense to them, so they posted it in the thread).

Alright, onto the good stuff.

In terms of gear, and getting curb stomped and all that...if you're not gonna get used to it, you'll probably be happier playing something else. If you're willing to power through the fact that you will get focused often and hard, you can easily make it as a healer, even if you don't have the best gear.
My problem personally when I came to this game (Idk if it's the same for you) was that I also played a healer in other MMO's, and in other MMO's there's a huge emphasis on how much healing a healer can do in a certain amount of time, and how many life-saving cooldowns they have. That's not really a thing on AA. You don't have any "oh ♥♥♥♥" buttons, and unless you have a TON of gear, you're not gonna have a massive output of heals. However, that doesn't mean you can't still contribute to a raid. The secret is to realize that. Realize that healers in this game are largely utility based, and can't all be focused on how much heals they can put out. Yes, higher healing power is useful, but that doesn't always lead to desirable specs or gear.

For example, I never play a cleric in PvP unless I'm heal botting in Halcy and just want honor. Hell, I don't use songcraft at all unless a raid leader specifically asks for me to. I always run Defense as a healer. ALWAYS. Too many cooldowns in that tree that can help save your life to pass up (dead healer does no heals). I don't always take Auramancy (actually, most of the time I play a Death Warden, which is Shadowplay, Vit, Def, cause I find that Shadowplay suits my survivability needs and playstyle better).

Currently, I've got T4 celes gear + celes GR belt/healer sleeves from Serp (I like that passive over the free invincibility, sue me). With a celes T4 ss (saving up for an epic ss), and my gear is currently tailored to be a stealth resser. I knew from a very long time ago that I simply would not be able to put out as much heals as other people, so I went for utility so that I could still be useful and secure myself a regular spot in raids. Don't worry about dying; it's going to happen. Worry about being as useful as possible BEFORE you die. No one cares if you get blown up in every single engage if you can still be useful before that point.

Graid
06-01-2016, 09:39 PM
I empathise with this. My PVP experience in a nutshell as either a mage or a healer has been a lot of getting killed in seconds by darkrunners, shadowblades, and basically anything with a pointy weapon that can cut through my squishy, cloth wearing self. You will of course also die faster when you don't have a shield (this said, both my characters have one and I still die fast). The added frustration as a mage without top tier gear is being unable to actually deal significant damage (with divine T5), and let me tell you that would be even worse of an issue as an archer. I couldn't speak for what it feels like as melee, but I do know melee is by far the favoured damage dealing class right now (outside of the 'mageball').

In PVP the only times I've gotten the breathing space to enjoy it and actually contribute is when nobody has noticed me yet or I'm out of range. Like you I put it down partly to lack of gear, but like you, I've come to realise that even having 2.4k toughness that took me a very long time to accumulate is not enough to stop me crumpling like tissue the second melee pays me attention. People talk about defence healers as tanky, but catching up to the point of being able to be 'tanky' is much harder than it initially appears. Basically, gearing up to the level of 'competitive' is a painful goal to try to reach in this game due to constantly shifting standards.

In my opinion, as a healer, though you die fast, you are perhaps in a better position to contribute something even when undergeared than are many other supposed damage dealing classes, though of course, CC is also something that is non-gear score dependent that anyone can potentially contribute in a fight.

Part of the problem here- I don't know about your circumstances, but I do know mine- is that I've chosen classes that aren't really viable in disorganised pvp and require an organised and co-ordinated group, not just a free for all pick-up-group that runs into the enemy with no plan. A healer functions best with a group who are actually actively looking out for them, and a mage works best in a group with other mages co-ordinated in their AOE attacks and CC. I've never really been in real proper co-ordinated group PVP as opposed to things like Halcyona and Mistmerrow which generally have only the very loosest sense of strategy. Unfortunately, it's sort of hard to learn when you only survive a few seconds in an actual confrontation. Having a group to fight with you who can advise you as to strategy and look out for you is probably quite important in producing an enjoyable experience, which I haven't really ever had with PVP in this game.

Chasun
06-01-2016, 10:15 PM
Yeah I've had similar issues. It's hard for me to hold much of a rational discussion about it because I'm just a pillar of salt right now. Everytime I try and talk about it just degrades into a ♥♥♥♥♥ fest.

But yeah, I just see my roommates who are a darkrunner and abolisher and they seem to have more fun in PVP they just charge in and get kills and do damage.

VisaTheMedic
06-01-2016, 10:54 PM
Yeah I've had similar issues. It's hard for me to hold much of a rational discussion about it because I'm just a pillar of salt right now. Everytime I try and talk about it just degrades into a ♥♥♥♥♥ fest.

But yeah, I just see my roommates who are a darkrunner and abolisher and they seem to have more fun in PVP they just charge in and get kills and do damage.

The thing with DR's and Abolishers is that in a raid, they're infinitely less useful than a healer; even a healer who dies after only healing a couple of people.

Graid is right on the money. Healers require groups who are gonna look out for them. For example, in a MM raid, if you get picked off by a random DR, chances are the randoms in the raid aren't paying attention, and you'll probably die. If you're in a guild raid, on TS, even if you're not the best guild, you can call out that you're being attacked, your guildies can react, and if that DR didn't kill you fast enough, you'll live, he'll die, his death accomplished nothing, whereas even if you STILL died, you probably throughout enough heals to make yourself useful.

I remember being told that DR's goal/job in raid PvP was to trade their lives for healers, and if they couldn't do that, they should just respec to something more useful. I played DR for awhile months ago, and honestly, unless you've got top tier gear, you find yourself dying a lot more quickly than healers xD

Chasun
06-02-2016, 12:18 AM
It's nice to know that Im not the only one struggling with these issues. Everyone else I know in the game, isnt a healer and king of hand waves my complaints off. But yeah what you guys are saying is making sense, and maybe enough I can take solace in that. But man is it a thankless job sometimes.

sobin
06-02-2016, 08:58 AM
First off, the healing guide on this forum is one of the best things you could read, Nodoze has spent quite a lot of time keeping it current. Please don't listen to the guy who is crying that only carebears post in it. The guy plays a death warden, so he's not even a legitimate healer. Second, you need to take a step back and ask yourself a few questions.

Do you want to main heal or be one of those selfish classes like paladin or deathwarden?
If you do want to main heal, what style of gameplay do you prefer? Templar would be the tankiest healing class (probably the tankiest class in general especially with the new renewal)

The biggest thing is you can't let other peoples gear get you down. You're going to have that darkrunner thats 3k gs higher than you who likes to trash talk everytime you die, just blow him off because there's nothing you can do. I play a squishy ♥♥♥♥♥ and i die a metric ♥♥♥♥ton, sure it sucks to die and its even worse now that trion has ignored our feedback on the new honor changes but despite that i still love healing.

You say you bought the new 150$ pack, that dragon is one of the best things you can own. Bind the dragon shield skill to a key and use it when you're tripped, most darkrunners just follow the same rotation blowing their load and with the shield up, you'll take 50% less dmg (hopefully giving you the time to get up and heal). Don't be afraid to use everything at your disposal, i'm sure you've done some pvp where you see the enemies run up and slothglide back thinking they're some sort of badass but then when the fighting actually begins, they rush your back line and stand there like a soggy potato. Use your glider, use your mount. Invuln glider, stealth glider, the new wings, invuln mount. These are all tools that will extend your life by a significant amount of time.

You obviously already know that your toughness and resilience stats are low but that's only just one part of it. Defense gems are the biggest part of your surviviablity, interms of mitigation defense > toughness BUT defense can be penetrated, the game takes time to progress as does your gear. Sure, you can swipe to be a 7k potato (there's lots of them) but it's very noticable who they are. Do some arenas, learn when to shrug, learn your combos, keep evolving your build until you find something you're comfortable with.

A few posts up, someone posted a templar build with no vitalism passives, that's a big no no. The second passive resets all of your healing skills, that's huge. Healing in this game is cooldown dependant which also makes the 10th passive a big boon. 11 points into auramancy just to grab teleport resets but doesn't even take mirror warp. Spend those points elsewhere. Revitilizing cheer is an amazing heal and i also believe a purge. Ollos hammer lol

I absolutely love healing in this game, you think it's a thankless job and not rewarding but trust me it isn't. It's all worth it when you get those random whispers saying how much they love you.

Meridian
06-02-2016, 10:27 AM
It's nice to know that Im not the only one struggling with these issues. Everyone else I know in the game, isnt a healer and king of hand waves my complaints off. But yeah what you guys are saying is making sense, and maybe enough I can take solace in that. But man is it a thankless job sometimes.
It's a very thankless job, especially seeing that, in a raid situation, you are going to be at or near the top of the hit list. Plus, this game is not particularly healer friendly, anyway. It can be fun, but can also be very frustrating at times.

Moleman
06-02-2016, 03:26 PM
Give this a try. Zero offense though, so group pvp is best.


http://earlygame.net/archeage/builds/4491-War_Cleric_Unstoppable_Juggernaut_PT_BR_EN_US#10.3 .4/txE8zkgJAsv

Thumbs up. Great sturdy build. Work on that pdef wherever you can get it. Obsidian lute as high as possible, believe there is a stone cloth peice that gives pdef. Eph shield or obs shield with extra pdef plus lots block gems, evasion gems on gloves (get in guild for the nice always stick free gems). Pdef gems up the yammer. And of course, go with friends.

sobin
06-02-2016, 03:30 PM
Thumbs up. Great sturdy build. Work on that pdef wherever you can get it. Obsidian lute as high as possible, believe there is a stone cloth peice that gives pdef. Eph shield or obs shield with extra pdef plus lots block gems, evasion gems on gloves (get in guild for the nice always stick free gems). Pdef gems up the yammer. And of course, go with friends.

Its probably better to put defense in gloves, rather than evasion. No darkrunner is going to attack you from the front, so from the back evasion is useless

VisaTheMedic
06-03-2016, 02:34 AM
First off, the healing guide on this forum is one of the best things you could read, Nodoze has spent quite a lot of time keeping it current. Please don't listen to the guy who is crying that only carebears post in it. The guy plays a death warden, so he's not even a legitimate healer. Second, you need to take a step back and ask yourself a few questions.

Do you want to main heal or be one of those selfish classes like paladin or deathwarden?
If you do want to main heal, what style of gameplay do you prefer? Templar would be the tankiest healing class (probably the tankiest class in general especially with the new renewal)

Umm, I specifically play Death Warden so I can actually contribute enough where I'm not hindered by my gearscore. "Selfish"...I'm a stealth resser, literally a healer that won't get honor for bringing back 20 people in 30 seconds. I can shadowstep into an enemy's backline with skullknights to make sure I reach targets and imprison/fortress. I can be in the front with the initiators, or in the back with the healers defending them. And if anyone's dying, I can be sure I won't be singled out, and almost guarantee that I can break off and start bringing people back into the fight cause I'm tanky enough to not die.

No, I'm not a "legitimate" main healer, I do so much more than that, which makes me more of an asset than someone who's only capability is throwing out a couple heals and then dying.

VisaTheMedic
06-03-2016, 03:03 AM
Healing is very much gimped in this game, so the best thing you can do if you don't have like 7k GS, is to take as much utility along with heals as you can.

Personally, on the rare days I play Templar, I'd go with something more like this:

http://earlygame.net/archeage/builder#10.3.4/JBGppBHlCsT1

Skewer is long distance CC for either catching people out, or keeping people off of you; tons of ways to use this. I always take Whirlwind's and if my group is engaging/charging, put it in front of them so they are fighting under the buff (I see too many people cast it on top of themselves at the beginning of a fight, and the fight quickly moves away from it, losing the advantage).
Still debating whether Refreshment is still worth having, since Toughen doesn't last long anymore, so doesn't generate much Mettle, and the heal on Cheer is super weak now.

Infuse is useful, especially using it on other healers; gives them mana + a free shield. It kinda got nerfed since you used to be able to use it on yourself, but it's still useful for others.

You should always have revive as a healer, and always have the Auroria revive hood; there's absolutely no reason not to. Whether it's that there's downtime, and some people got wiped on your last engage, or for whatever reason, every healer should have the ability to bring the dead back up.


Personally, I don't like Templar cause I feel really immobile relying on only teleport and mirror warp, but to each his own.

jumpropeguy
06-14-2016, 08:08 AM
take out infuse its worthless in pvp. If people are too cheap to mana pot and eat soups off cooldown then you shouldn't waste you mana doing it for them. take out revive its worthless in any class that doesn't have stealth. if you aren't in combat and have time to rez someone you can just respec into revive and respec back. Imprison is bad why as a healer would you want to isolate yourself from the raid you are supposed to heal and lock people in with you to kill you. i would probably do something more like this. http://archeagedatabase.net/us/calc/406715

If you are having issues getting killed its probably a positioning issue. If you need help with positioning try and find healers who don't die and ask them what they do. I would also recommend talking to sethrina on hanure hes a great healer and could teach you alot. In some MMO's healers are extremly op and near unkillable in AA a healer needs to play to how they are built. In my life armor and greatclub im dead in 1 sec. for me to survive i need to at all time be in a position to not take damage. One of the common mistakes i see healers make is they sit in one spot. constant movement and only stopping to cast is one of the big keys to surviving raid PVP.

Ajaness
06-14-2016, 04:20 PM
Infuse is a 3k hp shield insta cast that you should still be able to cast in between fervent healing casts, which 9 times out of 10 will guarantee that at least the first two hearts hit. It's not super strong but it's pretty much a free psuedo 3k hp, which is a shield stronger than mend's.

jumpropeguy
06-14-2016, 09:58 PM
Which can be accomplished with either halcy necklace. Which in a build with glaring deficiencies was a wasted skill point.

Sethrina
06-15-2016, 08:26 AM
The builds in this thread. I'm not sure whether to laugh, cry, or applaud.

Chasun if you're interested im pvp healing talk to me im game sometime. I'm usually swamped but I'll make some time. But the biggest thing is pots. Using consumables is a huge chunk of stats, for undergeared healers it's another set of armor. They aren't suggestions.

Wreyna
06-15-2016, 12:06 PM
The builds in this thread. I'm not sure whether to laugh, cry, or applaud.

Chasun if you're interested im pvp healing talk to me im game sometime. I'm usually swamped but I'll make some time. But the biggest thing is pots. Using consumables is a huge chunk of stats, for undergeared healers it's another set of armor. They aren't suggestions.

I have to agree. Any good healing build is going to have 11 pts in Vitalism, with most going to the passives. You'll want all the passives except the first one.

VisaTheMedic
06-16-2016, 05:49 AM
take out infuse its worthless in pvp. If people are too cheap to mana pot and eat soups off cooldown then you shouldn't waste you mana doing it for them. take out revive its worthless in any class that doesn't have stealth. if you aren't in combat and have time to rez someone you can just respec into revive and respec back. Imprison is bad why as a healer would you want to isolate yourself from the raid you are supposed to heal and lock people in with you to kill you. i would probably do something more like this. http://archeagedatabase.net/us/calc/406715

If you are having issues getting killed its probably a positioning issue. If you need help with positioning try and find healers who don't die and ask them what they do. I would also recommend talking to sethrina on hanure hes a great healer and could teach you alot. In some MMO's healers are extremly op and near unkillable in AA a healer needs to play to how they are built. In my life armor and greatclub im dead in 1 sec. for me to survive i need to at all time be in a position to not take damage. One of the common mistakes i see healers make is they sit in one spot. constant movement and only stopping to cast is one of the big keys to surviving raid PVP.

I use Imprison cause if you use it correctly, you can very easily create funnels or disrupt/LOS people who are trying to cast ♥♥♥♥. If you're imprisoning yourself with people who kill you while you're in the imprison, you're doing it wrong.

Also, infuse is an instant 3k shield, why wouldn't you take it? It's got like an 11 second cooldown, and can easily be the difference between your heals saving that person and not. Especially since not every healer has Auramancy.

So many people think that healers are measured by their ability to ONLY heal, it's definitely the amount of utility that makes healers better than others.

And if you see that you have enough healers, none have stealth, and your group is pushing but a couple people have died, it doesn't take much to break combat and bring back the dead. ESPECIALLY if you're winning the engage. Or if a healer died. You do not need stealth to revive people, and having to change specs during a fight is a waste of time, especially when you don't know if there's someone in stealth waiting to jump on you while you try to res people. Revive literally relies on the absolute minimum downtime wasted on bringing people back so that they're back in the fight as soon as possible because that increases the output of your whole raid. You should never just leave people dead; those are potential DPS/Healers/Initiators that can jump back in to the fight and tilt the fight in your favor even more.

Tenki
06-16-2016, 07:36 AM
So many people think that healers are measured by their ability to ONLY heal, it's definitely the amount of utility that makes healers better than others.

^
this

If you go with trying to maximize your heal power, you're setting yourself up to be a glass-cannon healer. I've met many "less efficient" healer roles who have been amazing for PVP:

- Healers with an AOE-break tree (witch, occultism)
- Bards who charm and debuff tanky targets
- Healers in plate grabbing and tanking melee aggro
- Skewer/Whirlwind Blessing
- High-aura healers who kite aggro in small group pvp

Reading through a different thread about melee DPS and looking back a bit, your defensive stats (outside of shield block rate) are really there for when you do get hit (aka fail a stun break, too bad and slow to keep up with a good, fast player). Resilience mitigates crit rate and crit damage, and you'll be hardpressed in 5k+ pvp to get killed in 3 hits with no crits.

Nodoze
06-16-2016, 08:35 PM
Hi,

Let me start this off by saying, I've started playing this game back in...February/march? I have been pay to win, spending nearly a 1,000 dollars getting cash shop packs, bloodsong 150 pack, the brand new 150 pack and apex. I've been going balls to the wall for healer gear for that entire time. Normally I play a healer and I enjoy it in mmo's. But I hate it in this game.

I get curb stomped all day every day...I thought it was just gear gap, my lack of toughness and resilience. So I selected the healer gear pack, thinking the boost to my gear set bonsus and the bracers / belt which pushes me to 20k hp, 1,900 relisience, and slighty over 2000 toughness. I still get my ♥♥♥♥ pushed in.

I've read through the healer thread multiple times, I've tried templar, caretaker, soothsayer, cleric, etc. They all just get swarmed by darkrunners and die in a couple of hits, that Im tripped the entire time with and then die.

So I picked the wrong free gear pack, now I find myself really wishing I had picked the mage or archer gear packs, and hoping beyond hope that they will give me a do over in that area and let me pick up a different gear package.

Because all my gear is obsidian t4 and my weapons are obsidian t4 (one handed mace, shortspear, 2h greatclub, and shield) all at celestial....since its all bound and untradable, and its insane amounts of wisps to get them tradeable. Im finding myself severly discouraged from continuing idk if I have in me the money and enthusiasm to start from scratch on a completely new gear set.

I guess this is more of a post venting my frustrations and Im aware most of the responses to this will be to "git gud" or nose down and grind it out. But Im just sharing my despair.Very sorry you are so frustrated and hopefully we can help... It sounds like your suvivibility is your biggest pain point...

Some follow-up questions:

- What is your base physical defense?
- Are you facing potted enemies?
- Are you fully potted up when you go into PVP and if so what pots are you popping?

You didn't list it but I suspect your Physical Defense (pDef) is too low and even at Celestial your Toughness and Resilience still seem low (likely you are missing several PVP gems in your pants & chest)...

Survivability-wise I would do your best to:


- Reforge the Serpentis ShadowSong set into the 'Shadow Warrior's Shadows' wrists (the proc can be amazing & they add 333 Toughness);
- Max your Toughness (target base ~2768-3454 as even in celestial you can reach 3100);
- Replace Toughness Enchant on Chest with the 3% damage reduction enchant once you exceed ~2400 toughness (IIRC);
- Max your Resilience (target base ~2900-3360);
- Wear pDef sheild (you may already be doing this);
- Wear pDef insrument (you may already be doing this);
- Slot as much pDef gems as you can reasonably afford. Start with the guaranteed one in each slot and then circle around improving each piece of gear to the same level as you go. Use refined gems after you reach a level you don't want to lose but count more and more of them failing the more gem slots you fill. Just try a few gems here and there as gold flow allows and over time they will eventually go in;
- Consider putting pDef gems in your gloves;
- Consider putting pDef enchant on your shield;
- make sure you carry full pots (someone can post a link to potting reference sheets);

If you achieve the above you should often be able to survive initial bursts and if you have at least 1 Teleport you should be able to get out of many situations. I would also get the Sloth and practice with it and practice instant-Telekinisis from your new belt on your attacker as well. If you spec Defense I find Fortress and Invince can also help save you (once you are surviving initial bursts).

Gear-wise I would take advantage of the regrade event where Celestials do not break and in the following order of priority I would:


- At least get your 1H Club to at least Divine (or Epic); It is better to have 1 good weapon than 3 mediocre weapons and the 1H Club is the most versatile for a healer;
- Then consider prioritizing getting your legs to Divine (and max your PVP gems);
- Then prioritizing getting your Chest to Divine (and max your PVP gems);
- Even were I to be in a Celestial gear otherwise I would do the above (I ran with Divine legs/chest but only a Celestial buff until I could slowly upgrade the other pieces)...

If you can't do the above you can still be fine with Celestial pants/chest but you really need to max those gems if at all possible.

Regarding gemming, if you don't generate much honor and can't gem very high yourself it is worth it to pay guild mates to help you gem items before you bind them. I recommend to folk to wear some mag stone or something cheap until you can get your Bind on Equip (BoE) Obsidian chest and legs max gemmed before equipping them. Ideally a decent sized guild would have some celestial crafted pieces with 4-5 gems to loan out until the BoE items are fully gemmed. It may be too late since your items are bound but I wanted to put that out there for any other newer folk that read this to help them avoid ending up unhappy.

I realize the above may seem like a tall order but I think they are worthwhile investments if you are going to play this game long (especially as a Healer since you are a big target).

Even with the above accomplished you still can't sit and be wailed on by people... The above should help you with initial burst combos but I suspect you also will need to work with your groups on your positioning and on getting peels/support when you are focused.

manuel777
06-16-2016, 10:21 PM
i love archeage <3

manuel777
06-17-2016, 12:11 AM
i love archeage <3

forevor

Aserghui
06-17-2016, 12:57 AM
To all y'all healers who say its a thankless job: if no one has said it today, thank you for having our backs.

As an archer, I can't count the times I get the focus of 2-5 reds in water combat, and just when I'm about to start blowing my "oh ♥♥♥♥" buttons... these hearts come flying out of no where. Its a huge morale boost and we get the kills.

To the nay-sayers of Infuse, its a great shield, specc it if you want. Its like the shield/bubble from WoW, just better because it gives mana. In any fight that little extra mana helps.

Kressilac
06-20-2016, 09:45 PM
Big thing with PvP is to be organized. You'll see primary and secondary healers in guild raids. The secondary healer's job is to keep the primary healer alive to heal the raid. Healers know to call for peels and a good raid leader will call for it anyway. Organization changes everything and while, you will still die, you'll die less often. If targets are being called, DPS and tanks are following those targets. If peels are timely and healing is organized, a small raid can decimate a full pug raid.

In PUGs, well, it's a PUG. You're going to die and the worst part is you will probably lose honor while your fellow DPS talk about getting hundreds of honor. At this point, only songcraft seems to be able to consistently stay honor positive, especially given the new penalties for death; penalties that are brutal to healers.

Siller
06-20-2016, 10:35 PM
Hey Chasun, don't be discouraged. To be honest, a lot of us (I don't speak for all though) appreciate healers a lot. I know nuts about healing but when my raid have a good healer I can like kinda 'feel' it.

An awesome healer is the key to make outnumbered fights lasts significantly longer and even wipe of the entire opposition. I had experienced that before and that feeling is so omgish feel good. That's because of you guys giving that support so much needed.

Ya not to worry about dying. The key is we learnt after each death to make it worthwhile. Humans got the uncanny ability to emulate something they want, so when you spot a good healer, observe how he/she plays and learn. :D

POOOT
11-22-2016, 10:33 AM
Any healers out there have an opinion on the following? I have an opportunity to get an epic t2 obsidian shirt for 18k, or get a divine obby purhearted shirt and purhearted hood for around 11k total.

Is it worth it go to epic for the extra money? I'm trying to justify it but i don't think I'll be getting an epic buff anyway, as i'd need around 100k for all the pieces.

Thoughts? Is divine ok?

zDragror
11-22-2016, 10:40 AM
Honestly it's on u.

If u think u can afford a full epic set in a long run why not.
But the question here is : Have u already decent gear or not ?
If yes : buy it (maybe try to lower the price to 16k)
If not : start to buy/make a decent full set T4-T5 celest / divin. And look for better gear after.

That's what I think.

Nodoze
11-22-2016, 11:36 AM
Any healers out there have an opinion on the following? I have an opportunity to get an epic t2 obsidian shirt for 18k, or get a divine obby purhearted shirt and purhearted hood for around 11k total.

Is it worth it go to epic for the extra money? I'm trying to justify it but i don't think I'll be getting an epic buff anyway, as i'd need around 100k for all the pieces.

Thoughts? Is divine ok?


Honestly it's on u.

If u think u can afford a full epic set in a long run why not.
But the question here is : Have u already decent gear or not ?
If yes : buy it (maybe try to lower the price to 16k)
If not : start to buy/make a decent full set T4-T5 celest / divin. And look for better gear after.

That's what I think.I agree with zDragror that the sensibility of any decision would be relative to your current healer gear (especially healer weapon), projected gold income, and long term goals. Regardless, in the end, it is up to you as it is your goals and your gold...

I respectfully recommend you review the following:

Healer Return on Investments Spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V9p82ajW8pCpSJehOph7j0k1EbkyDrgxNUpjjebIL5I/edit?usp=sharing)

I would also read the Gearing Plan for 'End Game' section in the Community Healer Guide (http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?143162-Complete-Healer-Guide-Continued-...).
Note: It should be the 4th of 4 matches if you press Cntrl-F to search and paste in: Gearing Plan for 'End Game'

Some points of reference/feedback:

For healing I and some others who are big fans of Mend prefer the Auroria Dulcet Vitalism Chest over the Obsidian chest (I have seen folk with fully gemmed Divine & Epic ones). The conventional choice is Obsidian but I would go get a rare Dulcet chest and try Mend with and without in duels with someone who can CC effectively and decide for yourself... You can try it in groups as well but realize your survivability in a rare without max PVP gems will be less so don't blame that on the Dulcet (or at least compare apples to apples).

I have had multiple people tell me that they were disappointed after working hard to upgrade to an Epic Buff.

I am a healer with a Legendary+ weapon and a Divine buff and personally I don't feel like it is worth it to upgrade my armor from Divine to Epic. Personally I have chosen instead to work on gear for alternate builds/specs/accounts.

On a related note for example, I am working on gearing out my kid's account (that I use also) as a mage and the route I chose is a Legendary T6 equivalent weapon with Celestial buff (I crafted an Epic Ayanad Scepter during the regrade event). I bought fully gemmed Celestial pants/shirt pretty cheaply off the AH for now but long term, if I or my kid really enjoy this toon/playstyle, I plan to replace those at least those 2 pieces with Divine pants/shirt to at least maximize my PVP gems. Since this is essentially a new character on a new account it gives an idea of starting from scratch with a new build/spec...

After reviewing those two references feel free to post back with more information as to your situation with more context to your current healer gear, projected gold income, and long term goals.

One mantra I would reinforce in the end is that the most important investment is your primary weapon and sensibility of armor choices are somewhat dependent on your main weapon...

POOOT
11-22-2016, 12:53 PM
I agree with zDragror that the sensibility of any decision would be relative to your current healer gear (especially healer weapon), projected gold income, and long term goals. Regardless, in the end, it is up to you as it is your goals and your gold...

I respectfully recommend you review the following:

Healer Return on Investments Spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V9p82ajW8pCpSJehOph7j0k1EbkyDrgxNUpjjebIL5I/edit?usp=sharing)

I would also read the Gearing Plan for 'End Game' section in the Community Healer Guide (http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?143162-Complete-Healer-Guide-Continued-...).
Note: It should be the 4th of 4 matches if you press Cntrl-F to search and paste in: Gearing Plan for 'End Game'

Some points of reference/feedback:

For healing I and some others who are big fans of Mend prefer the Auroria Dulcet Vitalism Chest over the Obsidian chest (I have seen folk with fully gemmed Divine & Epic ones). The conventional choice is Obsidian but I would go get a rare Dulcet chest and try Mend with and without in duels with someone who can CC effectively and decide for yourself... You can try it in groups as well but realize your survivability in a rare without max PVP gems will be less so don't blame that on the Dulcet (or at least compare apples to apples).

I have had multiple people tell me that they were disappointed after working hard to upgrade to an Epic Buff.

I am a healer with a Legendary+ weapon and a Divine buff and personally I don't feel like it is worth it to upgrade my armor from Divine to Epic. Personally I have chosen instead to work on gear for alternate builds/specs/accounts.

On a related note for example, I am working on gearing out my kid's account (that I use also) as a mage and the route I chose is a Legendary T6 equivalent weapon with Celestial buff (I crafted an Epic Ayanad Scepter during the regrade event). I bought fully gemmed Celestial pants/shirt pretty cheaply off the AH for now but long term, if I or my kid really enjoy this toon/playstyle, I plan to replace those at least those 2 pieces with Divine pants/shirt to at least maximize my PVP gems. Since this is essentially a new character on a new account it gives an idea of starting from scratch with a new build/spec...

After reviewing those two references feel free to post back with more information as to your situation with more context to your current healer gear, projected gold income, and long term goals.

One mantra I would reinforce in the end is that the most important investment is your primary weapon and sensibility of armor choices are somewhat dependent on your main weapon...

Thank you for this, this is really, really great information. Currently I have an epic t6 shortspear, and am rolling around in the celestial soulforged gear. I have a divine anticipation fully gemmed as my sheild.

If you've heard that epic buff'ed people aren't that impressed with it, I'd rather save ~80k and just get decked out in divine.
I think Stone or Earth cloth might be my best bet, I'm really more into stacking stamina than spirit as I think HP is more crucial. I know i'd eventually like to get a club, however I do have ~700 healing power unbuffed so I think that'll suffice for now. Plus I like the option of alt-ing as a melee DPS for solo trade runs, tanking pve, etc.

Nodoze
11-22-2016, 02:08 PM
Thank you for this, this is really, really great information. Currently I have an epic t6 shortspear, and am rolling around in the celestial soulforged gear. I have a divine anticipation fully gemmed as my sheild.

If you've heard that epic buff'ed people aren't that impressed with it, I'd rather save ~80k and just get decked out in divine.
I think Stone or Earth cloth might be my best bet, I'm really more into stacking stamina than spirit as I think HP is more crucial. I know i'd eventually like to get a club, however I do have ~700 healing power unbuffed so I think that'll suffice for now. Plus I like the option of alt-ing as a melee DPS for solo trade runs, tanking pve, etc.No problem. Glad to help. To be clear, I don't want to imply all people who have attained Epic buffs complain/lamented but I have indeed heard multiple people exclaim they were either underwhelmed or even fully disappointed (most went from Divine->Epic buffs). Since my Healing set is mostly done I am personally at a point to decide to upgrade and it isn't worth it to me (especially since I have sunk costs into bound Divine gear). That being said, if I were starting over, I would likely end up Divine again...

To me at least it almost never makes sense to have an armor buff the same re-grade level as your main weapon. Some general guidelines:


- If you have a Divine weapon I would stay Celestial Buff (except maybe legs/chest) until you can get your main weapon to at least Epic;
- If you have an Epic weapon I would stay Divine or Celestial Buff until you can get your main weapon to at least Legendary;

Being sick of bound gear I am more and more a fan of crafted weapons/armor except in the case of folk who want to play multiple-roles or like Hybrids who do multiple things at once... Crafted armor-wise I personally I would recommend Stone over Earth except in rare cases (before Obsidian I personally ran a 7/7 Celestial Earth Cloth set for a long time and still have a 7/7 Divine Earth Plate set that I use for some tanking scenarios).

A T6 Epic ShortSpear is a great all-around hybrid weapon allowing you to work it into multiple builds including:


- Primary Healing (Templar/Cleric/healing-focused Argent);
- Hybrid Healing Melee (Paladin/Dervish/melee-focused-Argent);
- Pure Melee (Darkrunners, etc);
- Tanks (Abolisher, Paladin, Templar);
- Archers (coupled with a good bow the SS is still BiS for Archers) [edit];

For example, it is likely smarter overall to invest in an Epic ShortSpear + Divine Shield + maybe a Divine-off-hand-healing-scepter than to invest in all of:


-Divine Sword + Divine Shield and;
-Divine club + same Divine Shield and;
-Divine 2H Club;

Similarly, it is likely smarter overall to invest in a Legendary ShortSpear + Divine Shield + maybe a Divine-off-hand-healing-scepter than to invest in all of:


-Epic Sword + Epic Shield and;
-Epic club + same Epic Shield and;
-Epic 2H Club;

If I were in your situation with an Epic Healing weapon and SoulForged Priest's Cloth my priority would be:


- change SoulForged pants to fully PVP gemmed Divine Purehearted pants;
- change SoulForged chest to fully PVP gemmed Divine Purehearted shirt (or gemmed Divine Auroria Dulcet Vitalism shirt);
- change Heartless Warrior's sleeves to the reforged-serp-mage-sleeves (Shadow Warrior's Shadows);
- get two serp healing earrings (http://archeagedatabase.net/us/item/27137/);
- get the yny healing ring (http://archeagedatabase.net/us/item/39146/);

Note: Get the above chest/pants fully gemmed before equipping unless you generate tons of honor; If you are curious what average RNG is for fully gemming slots I would review the Honor to Fully Socket Spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P5sOmNuhxTAYGXAvC5KLvlbHpPjK1TZflBtIQ38B9ls/edit#gid=1717033774) for planning purposes. I highly recommend paying trustworthy guild-mates to gem it for you before equipping.

Note: If you are patient over time you can find some really good deals on the auction house or in chat and can sometimes get fully gemmed pants/legs for about the same cost as a non-gemmed equivalent item. A non-binding alternative to the above would be some fully gemmed stone pieces. If you find Celestial ones real cheap you can get them and then keep an eye out for fully gemmed Divine ones and then sell the Celestial ones.

Note: I have heard some folk saying that wisps will be changing in either prices or quantities required (or both) and that maybe some of the general rules about max cost-effective upgrade-ability for obsidian will change in 3.0. I can't speak to that (may be rumor or maybe I misunderstood) but wanted to share that I heard that recently.

The rest of the slots are not as critical and you can upgrade them over time.

Fenhrirr
11-22-2016, 02:09 PM
lf pocket healer on morpheus pm

POOOT
11-22-2016, 03:33 PM
No problem. Glad to help. To be clear, I don't want to imply all people who have attained Epic buffs complain/lamented but I have indeed heard multiple people exclaim they were either underwhelmed or even fully disappointed (most went from Divine->Epic buffs). Since my Healing set is mostly done I am personally at a point to decide to upgrade and it isn't worth it to me (especially since I have sunk costs into bound Divine gear). That being said, if I were starting over, I would likely end up Divine again...

To me at least it almost never makes sense to have an armor buff the same re-grade as your main weapon. Some general guidelines:
- If you have a Divine weapon I would stay Celestial Buff (except maybe legs/chest) until you can get your main weapon to at least Epic;
- If you have an Epic weapon I would stay Divine Buff until you can get your main weapon to at least Legendary;

Being sick of bound gear I am more and more a fan of crafted weapons/armor except in the case of folk who want to play multiple-roles or like Hybrids who do multiple things at once... Crafted armor-wise I personally I would recommend Stone over Earth except in rare cases (before Obsidian I personally ran a 7/7 Celestial Earth Cloth set for a long time and still have a 7/7 Divine Earth Plate set that I use for some tanking scenarios).

A T6 Epic ShortSpear is a great all-around hybrid weapon allowing you to work it into multiple builds including:


- Primary Healing (Templar/Cleric/healing-focused Argent);
- Hybrid Healing Melee (Paladin/Dervish/melee-focused-Argent);
- Pure Melee (Darkrunners, etc);
- Tanks (Abolisher, Paladin, Templar);


For example, it is likely smarter overall to invest in an Epic ShortSpear + Divine Shield + maybe a Divine-off-hand-healing-scepter than to invest in all of:


-Divine Sword + Divine Shield and;
-Divine club + same Divine Shield and;
-Divine 2H Club;


Similarly, it is likely smarter overall to invest in a Legendary ShortSpear + Divine Shield + maybe a Divine-off-hand-healing-scepter than to invest in all of:


-Epic Sword + Epic Shield and;
-Epic club + same Epic Shield and;
-Epic 2H Club;

If I were in your situation with an Epic Healing weapon and SoulForged Priest's Cloth my priority would be:


- change SoulForged pants to fully PVP gemmed Divine Purehearted pants;
- change SoulForged chest to fully PVP gemmed Divine Purehearted shirt (or gemmed Divine Auroria Dulcet Vitalism shirt);
- change Heartless Warrior's sleeves to the reforged-serp-mage-sleeves (Shadow Warrior's Shadows);
- get two serp healing earrings (http://archeagedatabase.net/us/item/27137/);
- get the yny healing ring (http://archeagedatabase.net/us/item/39146/);

Note: Get the above chest/pants fully gemmed before equipping unless you generate tons of honor; If you are curious what average RNG is for fully gemming slots I would review the Honor to Fully Socket Spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P5sOmNuhxTAYGXAvC5KLvlbHpPjK1TZflBtIQ38B9ls/edit#gid=1717033774) for planning purposes. I highly recommend paying trustworthy guild-mates to gem it for you before equipping.

Note: If you are patient over time you can find some really good deals on the auction house or in chat and can sometimes get fully gemmed pants/legs for about the same cost as a non-gemmed equivalent item. A non-binding alternative to the above would be some fully gemmed stone pieces. If you find Celestial ones real cheap you can get them and then keep an eye out for fully gemmed Divine ones and then sell the Celestial ones.

Note: I have heard some folk saying that wisps will be changing in either prices or quantities required (or both) and that maybe some of the general rules about max cost-effective upgrade-ability for obsidian will change in 3.0. I can't speak to that (may be rumor or maybe I misunderstood) but wanted to share that I heard that recently.

The rest of the slots are not as critical and you can upgrade them over time.

Great, so I just picked up a Divine Purehearted shirt off the AH which I probably paid too much for at only 2 gems (6k). I do have one serp healing earring and am working on the yny ring. My build for healing is templar and for melee is Abolisher. I have about 9k left so I'll keep an eye out for some gemmed cloth pants.

I've heard that there's a certain floor of HP that you want to get before you start stacking spirit? I.e: Make sure you're 24k HP or so before you start adding spirit pieces. This is what led me to think that earth cloth might be a better, as they both give the same phys def bonus at the 4 set level. Thoughts?

Nodoze
11-22-2016, 04:30 PM
Great, so I just picked up a Divine Purehearted shirt off the AH which I probably paid too much for at only 2 gems (6k). I do have one serp healing earring and am working on the yny ring. My build for healing is templar and for melee is Abolisher. I have about 9k left so I'll keep an eye out for some gemmed cloth pants.

I've heard that there's a certain floor of HP that you want to get before you start stacking spirit? I.e: Make sure you're 24k HP or so before you start adding spirit pieces. This is what led me to think that earth cloth might be a better, as they both give the same phys def bonus at the 4 set level. Thoughts?You can find fully gemmed crafted gear with a little patience but it is really rare to find fully gemmed unbound Obsidian/Auroria gear. The best scenario is to be in a guild with trustworthy guildmates who want to sell honor. Alternatively you can see who on your server is selling and see if you can get positive references from him/her from folk you know/trust. Regardless you can usually ask for an item to trade & hold as collateral while they gem without offending a reasonable person. If I Recall Correctly (IIRC) when you join in party/raid with the person gemming you can see them consume gems (in addition to possibly watching animations) to help keep count if you have any questions/concerns. You may have to adjust your chat settings to see that info but it is possible to see what they consume (IIRC).

To some degree one's minimum Desired Health Pool (DHP) is personal preference & depends on who you group with and what you face though for me my personal minimum DHP is 24K and in the Healer Guide I put the target minimum DHP 20K.

The 4 piece Earth set is an option but I suspect you will exceed 24K before consumable buffs in 4 piece stone. That being said I would plan it out and be sure by using a character/gear planner like this one:


http://archeagecalculator.com/?a=11zR4KI4ECfQ22

To confirm my suspicion I quickly modified a generic healer planner that I already had wearing Celestial T4 Obsidian and put in as Templar and with Refreshment you hit 24K in Celestial Buff. You are ahead of that with full stam on your spear and a Divine T5 Shield (instead of Celestial T4)... Also IIRC Obsidian is 60%/40% Spirit Stamina while Stone is 60/40% Stamina/Spirit. I would modify it to try various options but I would say the cheapest/best option out of the gate is Celestial stone and upgrade to Divine Stone over time reselling the Celestial pieces.

You could do pre-gemmed Divine legs/shirt, Rare Serp-sleeves (till safe regrade to divine event), and 4 piece Celestial Stone. If you replace the Celestial stones with Divines you keep the 4 set bonus the whole time.

Sorry I am in a hurry as we are leaving to travel for Thanksgiving or I would modify it further...

Good Luck and have an early Happy Thanksgiving !

Nukk
11-23-2016, 10:13 AM
I think the problem is not with the healer but rather that too many players just want to "blow things up" (DR and Arcanists etc) and there's not enough players playing a supporting role. In a lot of PvP orientated games that I have played healers benefit greatly from having a linebacker to peel off, CC, kill enemies overextending to the healer. Unfortunately, there are not that many players that are interested in doing this in Archeage, even though the classes are there to be played.

zDragror
11-23-2016, 05:12 PM
I think the problem is not with the healer but rather that too many players just want to "blow things up" (DR and Arcanists etc) and there's not enough players playing a supporting role. In a lot of PvP orientated games that I have played healers benefit greatly from having a linebacker to peel off, CC, kill enemies overextending to the healer. Unfortunately, there are not that many players that are interested in doing this in Archeage, even though the classes are there to be played.

Cuz the honor system is bad.
If a guy do that he's not gonna earn so much honor.

When a guy make 1 kill, the whole raid / party should win the same amount of honor.
And then maybe healer can have a backline :>
If my honor system, no more heal who stay stuk in they'r healing song for get honor and more decent healing for team.
I really hope one day they change the honor gain system.

Irrstern
11-23-2016, 05:56 PM
I will go fully Sorrowsong or Edgewalker we will see

Both have a Pro and a Con but i think these two going to be a valid new Meta to be honest...since the new Balance in Skillsets will give a Player more freedom for a choosen Skillset combination :)

zDragror
11-23-2016, 06:00 PM
Honestly i still don't know what play in 3.0 :<