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Havenox
04-17-2014, 12:11 AM
Stagnation in the market? What happens when everyone has their homes, boats, cars and do not need more of primarily wood?

I'm watching this happen in Russian. Everyone already has everything and actually even more place on earth for construction.

The price of the pack processed wood fell from 25g to 6g in just over 30 days ...

I see this happen with the wood, but it can happen with a lot more things, maybe even already be happening.

The market can not remain stagnant. In the case of wood I would be interested to implement a system of decay where you could use wood to repair your home.

See it comprehensively. I'm talking about wood, but look at this extension of everything in the game.

Vibe
04-17-2014, 01:06 AM
Crafting is always going to consume a lot of goods (wood included for weapons). Crafting currently is extremely RNG dependant and very grindy if you want to get the top gear.
But price fluctuations are in every game. If wood prices drop people will stop growing trees, thus the wood price will increase in time. That's one of the fun parts after all :D

krallang
04-17-2014, 01:10 AM
This is why ship costs need to be decreased and they need to be destructible. Permanent gold sink.

JoeDragon
04-17-2014, 02:43 AM
Aside from crafting RNG, I would imagine by the time everyone has everything. XLGames would have added more. Also, keep in mind that building a castle and attacking a castle will require a ton of resources and gold. With enough large guilds, and more zones in the northern continents opening up, expect to see huge wars between guilds eating up resources. Also keep in mind that we have stuff that the RU servers doesn't, and that will probably remain true moving forward.

Legion
04-17-2014, 02:49 AM
Stagnation in the market? What happens when everyone has their homes, boats, cars and do not need more of primarily wood?

I'm watching this happen in Russian. Everyone already has everything and actually even more place on earth for construction.

The price of the pack processed wood fell from 25g to 6g in just over 30 days ...

I see this happen with the wood, but it can happen with a lot more things, maybe even already be happening.

The market can not remain stagnant. In the case of wood I would be interested to implement a system of decay where you could use wood to repair your home.

See it comprehensively. I'm talking about wood, but look at this extension of everything in the game.

It's simple, you use lesser lp for any action when level up professions =]

Vibe
04-17-2014, 03:40 AM
Also, houses/castles in the north can be destroyed and need to be rebuilt, costing a lot of resources.

jeffvader
04-17-2014, 09:11 AM
But Charlie, don't forget what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted.

What happened?

He lived happily ever after.

Submarine
04-17-2014, 09:12 AM
This is why ship costs need to be decreased and they need to be destructible. Permanent gold sink.


Ships are destructible, when they are destroyed they are unusable until you purchase an item to repair it, the item can be cheap or relatively expensive depending on the size of the ship.

Toon
04-17-2014, 09:17 AM
On RU servers crafting is very limited. There are no mid and high 50 lvl crafting armors, there are no level 50 crafting staffs.
And also there are only few raid bosses. Idk why they cut game content :(

Chyurdan
04-17-2014, 11:07 AM
From what I've heard there are a lot of bots and hackers on the russian server, this can lead to a huge influx of materials and drive the prices on items way down to the point where it isn't necessary to bother with farming them.

NeonWhiteKnight
04-17-2014, 11:14 PM
Are you sure the prices didn't go down due to the bot uprising?

SilentPrayers
04-18-2014, 08:28 AM
I personally feel like people always want more, even if you have "everything" you'll make an excess of something "just incase" because people are just like that..atleast for the people who want everything.

Bartender
04-18-2014, 08:31 AM
there will be 7 continents and more expansions so yea alot will be added

Zappygun
04-18-2014, 10:25 AM
This thread leads to a valid point that has already been discussed in-depth on at least the ArcheAgeSource fansite, and probably several others as well.
ArcheAge doesn't have a solid money sink. The previous posters show us that there are indeed some money sinks, but experiences from the people who've played Korean betas and release have shown that after a while, everyone ends up with much more money than they need to maintain themselves. The conclusion of the thread on AAS was more or less 'item durability' and I can say I stand by that. Just adding more on the end of a rope doesn't tie a circle.

Also:

there will be 7 continents and more expansions so yea alot will be added
Source please.

Havenox
04-23-2014, 02:08 PM
I really appreciate your opinions.

Really, what I know now is that the Russian will not serve as a base for learning as I thought, because beyond to be late dated has many things cut from the game .. For example, four weeks passed since that 3rd continent was opened and guilds claimed their lands... Do not happened wars, and that guilds are just cashing in and cashing.. This and the bots and hacks that were practically free to use some time ago. The economy of AA-RU is broken. I hope our version of game come already prepared against these bad experiences from other versions of world.

But, i yet think that should to have a, no much large, sistem of decay or something to force to use materials and also to a good gold sink for the equilibrium of game economy..

Zenjirr
04-23-2014, 05:49 PM
How is the economy on RUS exactly broken? If you cannot sell the wood at a good price... its gonna happen to TRION version aswell why? Because everyone wants to get that sparkle wood for the tractor/tank and how do you get it... YOU GROW F'ING TREES. Why did the price drop for it.... because everyone's growing it. The only problem and a major one for RUS version are the BOTS and the HACKS I agree on that one. Did you get your 2k gold on RUS? no? Its not that simple... If you want to be a millionaire by selling wood, find Wood Age Online or some other game... Tree Simulator perhaps...

I don't want to be an ♥♥♥, but u clearly didnt play the game enough and didnt try crafting gear... here's a good example of CRAFTING gear in Archeage:
http://iddqdimg.net/u/or/78/d/9/f/e6671d.png

If that is not a gold sink for you, then I dunno what is....

Monkey Overlord
04-23-2014, 07:47 PM
From what I've heard there are a lot of bots and hackers on the russian server, this can lead to a huge influx of materials and drive the prices on items way down to the point where it isn't necessary to bother with farming them.


This is an excellent point.

I expect Wood to drop in price. I consider it a basic material. The price may not stay low for a long period of time and many AH campers will fix prices when they fall too low.

Halios00
04-23-2014, 09:04 PM
Every game, the economy fluxes. Just wait it out and watch your wood ;) Just like natural wood, it rises and falls by itself

Velad
04-23-2014, 09:25 PM
This is why I tend to prefer item decay in games such as this. Items, houses, boats, and what not experience wear and tear, and eventually need to be replaced or repaired. This way economy doesn't get flooded with items, and it's constantly rolling. I'm curious as to why XL Games decided to switch to a LP and RNG system. While it does slow down the flow of items into the economy, as time goes the market will eventually stagnate due to a lot of supply, but little demand as most will be aiming for the best RNG stuff.

Archaous
04-24-2014, 02:14 AM
This is why ship costs need to be decreased and they need to be destructible. Permanent gold sink.

%1000 would make the game better

DeMordey
04-24-2014, 06:59 AM
Enchating and breaking items.

StrejdaTom
04-24-2014, 07:35 AM
Well the price fall because of bots too. :))

rodde
04-25-2014, 07:16 AM
Stagnation in the market? What happens when everyone has their homes, boats, cars and do not need more of primarily wood?

I'm watching this happen in Russian. Everyone already has everything and actually even more place on earth for construction.

The price of the pack processed wood fell from 25g to 6g in just over 30 days ...

I see this happen with the wood, but it can happen with a lot more things, maybe even already be happening.

The market can not remain stagnant. In the case of wood I would be interested to implement a system of decay where you could use wood to repair your home.

See it comprehensively. I'm talking about wood, but look at this extension of everything in the game.


that's because all of EU and US players left the servers.

Arghore
04-26-2014, 08:53 AM
A good sandbox simply needs item decay & destructible items ... a gold sink alone is not enough;

on gold sinks
actually a gold sink is only there to keep inflation down from gold brought into the game from questing and drops. While I do not know about Archeage gold sinks, the whole 'property tax' system does sound like a decent gold sink 'rent always is' ... another decent gold sink is a money for shopcredit exchange, and things like 'salvage kits', 'tinker kits' and other one time use items that can only be attained by buying them from NPC sellers. Certain festive consumables can also help along...

on decay & repair
The big problem (of past) with decay has been the introduction of tough RNG, if your Uber Sword of Uber Killing is slowly decaying in say a month, and it took you 2 months of RNG to make one, people get discouraged. See, if crafting turns out the same item any time you craft, then having these items break isn't that much of a deal, you simply make a new one...

In this respect 'repair' can offer a way to lengthen the use of an item, and offer a resource sink, it may also offer a gold sink (if a purchased repair kit is part of the repair bill). Now where did this all go south, well first off people don't like 'taxes' .period. ... and another thing happened in regards to the imbalance between classes when it comes to repair costs, or in some cases replacement costs. This tends to happen f/e in the 'ranger vs melee' classes, where ranger use up their arrows and have their bows break, while sword players only see repair on their sword and shield, and no replacement costs. If arrows are not part of the deal, then all of a sudden the melee Sword/Shield has 2 repair bills, while the ranger may have none... Which is further imbalanced because melee players 'have to' get into melee range and break stuff, while ranged might not suffer 'hits' at all by kiting ... ohw the nightmares and ranting ...

Still though, decay and/or repairs are still a good way to 'balance' resources in a game, one just has to tread carefully and figure out where it works, and where it doesn't. Based upon past experiences, decay can work for situations that are the same for everyone, that way no group feels any unfairness in relation to their gameplay. For AA, what would work:
- Boats being destroyed, and needing to be rebuild instead of 'repaired' by some alchemist potion. If all destroyed boats would need to be rebuild, the demand for these resources would always remain.
- Boats being repaired, this could also tie in with actual boat battles. As your boat gets damaged it's functioning is diminished (go slower, turn slower). Yet if you win the battle, you should be able to repair the ship, so you do not have to go through the painstaking process of rebuilding it. This will consume a fair deal of resources, and could also come with a gold sink repair kit.

- Housing, another place where 'repairs' could work, it would even be cooler if each area would be hit with a certain environmental event (storm, sand storm, earthquake, flood, meteor strike), which would periodically and equally damage property. Next to this 'age' could also be a way to introduce a resource sink.

- Kites, basically the same thing, repair and replacement would work great on these...

- As mentioned, using weapons or armour doesn't seem to work that well, as this is way harder to balance to a point where it feels fair to all the classes in an somewhat equal manner. Basically the only thing I could see work in this regard is 'ammunition'. This would mean 'crafting/buying arrows', 'crafting/buying sharpening kit' on melee, and 'crafting/buying charge crystals' on casters. These could all function on a 'skill usage' basis, and as such be equal to all professions. Still though, various people will still experience this as 'taxing gameplay' and be against this kind of 'decay/usage'

xReorks
04-27-2014, 09:37 AM
Yea,the guy above (Arghore) speaks the truth.

The game do NEED to have way more gold sink,more ways to feel the inclusive/exclusive feelings of who is winning pvp's and who doesn't.
Lets say,world boss might suffice this for a few,then castles,perhaps.
But i'm afraid in the long run most of the playing characters will be more or less equalized,unless people slacks too much...

But then you'll have an entire server crowded with most of the valuable gear in the market,creating surplus and having players that cannot sell their old gear unless they heavily underprice it.
in RU versions there's quite a few t3 groups stacked up already,there's gonna be always more,since its not hard at all to make it and its coming out as a priceless effort for those that have a descent guild and a good group behind.
The others,well,who cares.

The problem is that soon or later everybody will just afford such gears from the market ,imho is required to reduce the gold coming from the safe routes,add back item decays and replace rng with a more logical craft system...

Lady Chyna
05-02-2014, 08:30 AM
Why is it that some people think we need gold sinks? Gold sinks don't grow economies because the gold goes into a bottomless pit. A better solution for the economy would be to add attrition to everything. For example:

If you want the best sword/armor in game you need to maintain them with the best oil. If you want the largest trees/crops with the biggest yield you must grow them with the best fertilizer. If you want the biggest keep/house, you need to maintain it with the best wood and stone. You can literally add attrition to everything like furniture, ships, livestock, mounts with craftable items that would keep the economy rolling with gold and influential trade.

Princess Miyafuji
05-02-2014, 08:42 AM
Because people cried. Thats the reason.

I fallow AA since early Korean beta's and originally the game was supposed to be completely different.

It was supposed to be sandboxy open PVP centric game. The gear you had decayed as you died, thus that forced you to craft new stuff. That was good material and gold sink. It kinda worked and the game looked like this and was developed this was till CBT3. But people who were in started complaining "beeh I working xx for this and then i got pked 10 times and i lost it" etc, etc. So the devs decided to remake the content to appeal to the WOW crowd, aka PVE friendly game based on questchains and hubs where PVP or sandbox is minor thing of chosing, not core of the game. A game where you mostly only gain stuff not lose. The death penalties were completely removed, decay made 100x smaller and easily repairable by NPC, sandbox stuff got packed in to predefined housing areas, etc.

Since that the game suffered. And in KR you could see the devs frantically trying to keep this bad concept and instead of arrind real content aka the 3rd continent stuff, they focused on pushing really expensive gandgets and cosmetic stuff, like the race-cars as money-sink to keep the economy alive for another month. Then the game went FTP which mean people could by things more directly which killed the life in the game even more. So as it is it does not work long-term, you are right and the creator of this thread is correctly afraid of this.

Lets see what happens, if we get some kind of real economy or they keep throwing moneysinks to the game.

xReorks
05-02-2014, 01:52 PM
Because people cried. Thats the reason.

Thats ALWAYS the reason behind.

But in good ol' times crying would just bring another slap.
Not a package of candies.

World totally turned to ruin. :(

Deathdimension
05-03-2014, 03:01 PM
there will be 7 continents and more expansions so yea alot will be added

Yeah, as source would be good. I've heard nothing about there being seven continents, and I look up a lot of stuff about AA...