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View Full Version : 3.0 - Sieges/Castles are useless/dead - Explaination



Taiver
12-04-2016, 08:58 PM
I have another post on this with some points but I want to add something personalised with my thoughts on the effects of the changes you are bringing. I feel putting it into the other thread will be worthless and I want it to be seen because I feel quite strong about this.

Castles right now - Sieges are 60 vs 100 for the first part of the fight.

this was designed to allow the attacking team to have a large advantage at the beginning and have time to push through the walls and towers that defend the castle. In a nut shell, with equal numbers it will be quite hard to make progress at breaking walls/towers assuming equal gear score
This works well, allowing the attacking team time to hold off the defending team and have people on siege tanks pushing to break walls and the defenders have people on cannons that are not broken, laying siege damage down on the field to break tanks and make it harder.

Castle Sieges In 3.0 are still 60 v 100

However, this is the big difference. Due to the insane amount of materials, lord coins and time required to fully build what is needed of a castle to have the refuge buff, it is simply impossible to set up a castle within the 3 week siege period, let alone between people finding out about this change and it actually hitting the live servers.
This means, practically every castle, on every server will have the minimal buff on their Archeum lodestone which is +200% damage taken (it receives 300% damage and with 2.7 million hp, this means it has an effective HP of 900k)

Now, in the past, the attacking teams 40 man advantage wasn't a big deal. The time before reinforcements could join in was reasonable and gave a while for the attacking team to push through the castles defences such as the walls and towers and attempt to get as close to putting the archeum lodestone into a state where they can push to DPS it.
With this change, the 40 man advantage and the lack of any defences on the lodestone mean any attacking force can immediately go for the lodestone, ignore all walls, all towers and all structures. Focus on just doing 900k damage to the lodestone and then they will have plenty of time to channel the lodestone to capture the castle, all while having a 40 man advantage.

The main issue

Truly, the biggest problem is that this whole system change requires that people have a fully upgraded palace + 10 or 20 max tier farms before the castle has any form of protection. This creates the problem where people either wont bother building their castle due to it not being worth spending time or effort into something that will ultimately end in the large chance of losing it without having a fair chance to defend it.
Without being given reasonable time to build the required items needed to have your castle protected, its unreasonable to simply expect people to deal with this.
You cant just take what could have been years of work from a guild and turn it into a joke.

Now, lets speak tactics.

Right now, if you want to take a castle, you place the declaration stone in an area, very close to the castle with a nice line of attack to get a good defensive position.

After 3.0, you can place the declaration stone MILES AWAY. like on the opposite side of the entire zone you are sieging.
It means that after you manage the small task of 900k damage to the lodestone and the respawn areas swap, the already weaker defence force that is outnumbered 100 - 60 is now spawning 1-2 minutes or more away from the castle for the rest of the siege.

You cant expect people to manage the monstrous task of getting 1000s of lord coins and 100 advanced packs +20k gold to upgrade their main building into a palace so they get access to the luxury packs, then manage to find 2700 lord coins to build 30 max tier farms (yes 30, 20 is the minimum needed. You would build extras otherwise your lodestones gonna be vulnerable after only 3 farms get broken)
Its insane Trion, im not usually this hit by the changes that most people complain about but this one hits pretty hard.
Sort it out. Please

Taiver
12-05-2016, 09:44 AM
Hope this gets read and I would love to hear the thoughts of khrolan/celestrata. Got 3 weeks until the next siege so hopefully, if they agree, there is time to do something

Daige
12-05-2016, 09:58 AM
Wow... looks like an issue

Panterah
12-05-2016, 10:01 AM
Nayanulaan here ...Taiver, I thought you guys gave up your Castle on Leviathan. So this puzzles me.

Pandrunk
12-05-2016, 10:06 AM
Nayanulaan here ...Taiver, I thought you guys gave up your Castle on Leviathan. So this puzzles me.

What does it matter what Taiver's guild did/do? This matter needs to be addressed because there's no logic behind the costs that will be needed to maintain the refugee buff rank up to 5.

gruffen2
12-05-2016, 10:13 AM
would be one hell of an accomplishment for whoever does manage to get rank 5

Kressilac
12-05-2016, 11:02 AM
The whole of this gets worse if you have a nation and control more than one castle inside the nation. At 2 castles, one per guild in a two guild nation, you have 150 people to draw from at maximum. Even if you can get your castles to a sufficient rank, if you do not get one of your castle's scrolls, then the whole nation is weakened for sieges.

60 + 15 players in reserve split between two castles. For three guilds and three castles, the limit is 200 players. That's 60 defenders per castle and 20 more split between three castles. Because you have to be in the same guild to defend, there's no hope of that 20 roaming players or 30 with two guilds. You'll always be at a disadvantage to a single east/west guild with 100 that buys multiple scrolls.

The nation limits and limits on siege rosters do not allow you to plan to properly and fully defend a castle. Is the idea to have castles continually torn down? Is the idea for them to be setup and have no lasting value? If so, they are too expensive. Way too expensive.

Think of the limits this way:
Three guilds can have an alliance and own three castles as part of the east and west factions. Each guild gets 60 initial and a 40 player reserve come siege day.
Three guilds can formalize that alliance and own three castles in a nation. Each guild gets some part of 200 members left to the decision of its leadership. The nation gets nothing else to offset this limitation. No other advantage come siege time assuming maximum participation. Yet the nation cost significantly more to establish and build that is on top of the requirements for building the castle.

Taiver
12-05-2016, 03:12 PM
Nayanulaan here ...Taiver, I thought you guys gave up your Castle on Leviathan. So this puzzles me.

We took another one? Puzzle solved ^^

Elendriss
12-05-2016, 03:52 PM
At the risk of being flamed. ...

Owning castles on most servers is a joke. It's owned by the top Guild and often farmed by that guild's alts. They always buy out their siege scrolls which has been a common practice since the inception of auroria. Do I think this is a good solution for castles? Probably not, but if it results in more actual sieges and contesting of castles I think it's a good change. With all the gold nerfs in 3.0, one of the biggest remaining income sources are castles and the nerf bat needs to smack them too, to keep things in line.

Taiver
12-06-2016, 09:18 AM
I hope they say something about this, either way, soon, so we know what to expect from them based on what ive said here

Elendriss
12-06-2016, 11:15 AM
Considering they can't program the game and would have to request the change from xl....99.999999% certain that it will go live the way it is, as they would upset far more people by delaying 3.0 and fresh start. It may ( or not ) be changed in the future but I would plan on this hitting live on Saturday

Taiver
12-06-2016, 12:20 PM
Considering they can't program the game and would have to request the change from xl....99.999999% certain that it will go live the way it is, as they would upset far more people by delaying 3.0 and fresh start. It may ( or not ) be changed in the future but I would plan on this hitting live on Saturday

They have 3 weeks to put out a patch to change it before the siege. Doesn't have to be before the release.
Can be a patch for the week after the release of 3.0

Elendriss
12-06-2016, 01:22 PM
I understand, but I'd prepare for it to be the new standard. Look how many bugs are being reported, while I'm sure they will try to get the major ones fixed for launch, I can pretty much guarantee its getting released with bugs as that seems to be the norm for Software these days. The next three weeks will be fixing those bugs, and while this MAY fall on that list, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Taiver
12-07-2016, 01:46 PM
Still hoping for a response. This would probably be one of the most impactful changes that could ♥♥♥♥ up a lot of things and yet there has been no official response to my concerns.

Yunoharahime
12-08-2016, 11:41 AM
Still hoping for a response. This would probably be one of the most impactful changes that could ♥♥♥♥ up a lot of things and yet there has been no official response to my concerns.

If you have palyed here from long ago you should know that if Trino play the deaf/blind card and go full silent, means they don't give a rat ♥♥♥, aka working as intended until the crapstorm hit and then they start to care.

So, the official repsonse is "deal with it, won't change anytime soon as long as money keep coming"

Taiver
12-08-2016, 01:03 PM
If you have palyed here from long ago you should know that if Trino play the deaf/blind card and go full silent, means they don't give a rat ♥♥♥, aka working as intended until the crapstorm hit and then they start to care.

So, the official repsonse is "deal with it, won't change anytime soon as long as money keep coming"

More likely they are scared of giving us the answer since it would be bad. If they play blind/deaf to the problem and pretend it doesn't exist then it shows me that they are scared of the question, knowing that answering it would create issues or make them look incompetent.
I believe this to be true, not nessesarily trion, but XL/Trion comms and ability to think about changes or get community feedback raplidly translated across, since this change ♥♥♥♥s the castle system and makes it pointless to 99% of guilds to build anything on any castle site.

We will see what happens, with this change coming in at the same time as a Christmas day siege, it should be interesting to see what happens with the castles