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Ohhaider
01-09-2017, 05:38 AM
Does anyone know how to counter Cursed Thorns? Do I just have to keep moving? it hurts so much... Help. thanks

Lancet
01-09-2017, 06:15 AM
If you have witchcraft or vitalism, you can purge/mirror the debuff off. Battlerage's bondbreaker gives temporary immunity to the slow. I *think* wearing cloth armor in of itself cuts the duration down by 30% - Not to mention the attack is entirely magic-based...

Ohhaider
01-09-2017, 06:19 AM
oh sweet, didnt you know you can purge it off. thanks :D ill try that

Dynasty
01-09-2017, 08:08 AM
Also just keep moving. There is a decent delay between when the spot appears and when the thorns come up. If you're that immobile of a class then.... sorry?

Teeth
01-09-2017, 09:54 AM
Also just keep moving. There is a decent delay between when the spot appears and when the thorns come up. If you're that immobile of a class then.... sorry?

battleragers get their feelings hurt when they have to do more than roll their faces across the keyboard when fighting cloth.

Quillodon
01-09-2017, 11:12 AM
Also just keep moving. There is a decent delay between when the spot appears and when the thorns come up. If you're that immobile of a class then.... sorry?

It is possible OP is referring to the hilarious Thorns/TK combo. Which I am STILL not tired of using on people, and which makes me giggle evilly every time I pull it off.

Setrict
01-09-2017, 11:58 AM
Hey Quillodon, since you seem to be an informed Occultism representative - do you have any input on this thread regarding the other Abyssal skill?

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?308991-Occultism-Abyssal-Skill-Shadow-Circle

Quillodon
01-09-2017, 12:07 PM
Hey Quillodon, since you seem to be an informed Occultism representative - do you have any input on this thread regarding the other Abyssal skill?

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?308991-Occultism-Abyssal-Skill-Shadow-Circle

Commenting there.

Dynasty
01-09-2017, 12:40 PM
It is possible OP is referring to the hilarious Thorns/TK combo. Which I am STILL not tired of using on people, and which makes me giggle evilly every time I pull it off.

Possibly, but then I think they'd be looking for a TK counter not a thorns counter.

While we're talking about thorns though.... Can you look into if they damage Mistsong bosses? It's castable on them and I think I'm seeing damage ticks, but I'm not seeing entries for it in my combat log.

Quillodon
01-09-2017, 01:37 PM
Possibly, but then I think they'd be looking for a TK counter not a thorns counter.

While we're talking about thorns though.... Can you look into if they damage Mistsong bosses? It's castable on them and I think I'm seeing damage ticks, but I'm not seeing entries for it in my combat log.

Cursed Thorns does dmg in two ways: once from the initial explosion when the thorns trigger, and again from a weaker DoT debuff that affects enemies who stands in the area after the thorns have triggered.

The mistsong bosses (and i assume all dungeon bosses, though i haven't checked) do appear to be immune to the damage over time effect. But they take the "explosion" damage as normal. The weird thing is, you have to turn on "others" in your combat log to see it.

(Before you ask, i have no idea why this is. The explosion dmg is still affected by post-cast changes to your Magic Attack, so it's obviously not some independent entity. But yeah, the skill's primary dmg counts as "others" for your combat log.)

Nahlem
01-09-2017, 02:00 PM
That weaker DoT debuff does 3-4k per dot for me :P So it's not weak. Especially when occultism charges can be done outside any fight and be ready. Best abyssal skill for mages.

Quillodon
01-09-2017, 02:12 PM
Good lord man, what are your bonuses?! I just cast it at 1k magic attack on a test server and it was only doing a couple hundred lol.

EDIT: We're talking about the same thing, right? The debuff that currently has a text bug, so it appears as blue korean in your combat log?

Dynasty
01-09-2017, 02:37 PM
Cursed Thorns does dmg in two ways: once from the initial explosion when the thorns trigger, and again from a weaker DoT debuff that affects enemies who stands in the area after the thorns have triggered.

The mistsong bosses (and i assume all dungeon bosses, though i haven't checked) do appear to be immune to the damage over time effect. But they take the "explosion" damage as normal. The weird thing is, you have to turn on "others" in your combat log to see it.

(Before you ask, i have no idea why this is. The explosion dmg is still affected by post-cast changes to your Magic Attack, so it's obviously not some independent entity. But yeah, the skill's primary dmg counts as "others" for your combat log.)

Thanks, I'll edit my log and take a look next run. Trying to get a good look on if an OCC user with 10 passive and urgency spamming crippling, manastars, and thorns pumps more or comparable dps than a spellsong in the PVE world.

EDIT: And yes I'm using aur guards and stormcallers, why would a manastars dps build not have those?

Ohhaider
01-09-2017, 02:39 PM
I fought an occultism + archer in arena. his combo was boneyard > cursed thorns or maybe it was cursed thorns > boneyard. but anyways, i die before i get out of the boneyard. feelsbad

I haven't been TK'd and thorned before... damn that would make me cry irl.

Dynasty
01-09-2017, 02:55 PM
I fought an occultism + archer in arena. his combo was boneyard > cursed thorns or maybe it was cursed thorns > boneyard. but anyways, i die before i get out of the boneyard. feelsbad

I haven't been TK'd and thorned before... damn that would make me cry irl.

is someone finally running gravesinger in arena's?

Nahlem
01-09-2017, 04:34 PM
Good lord man, what are your bonuses?! I just cast it at 1k magic attack on a test server and it was only doing a couple hundred lol.

EDIT: We're talking about the same thing, right? The debuff that currently has a text bug, so it appears as blue korean in your combat log?

1560 magic attack / 138% crit dmg / 71% crit rate unbuffed as rev :) We are talking about the thorns dot right?

Quillodon
01-09-2017, 05:33 PM
1560 magic attack / 138% crit dmg / 71% crit rate unbuffed as rev :) We are talking about the thorns dot right?

Yes, but I'm betting YOU'RE talking about the big painful explosion that happens when the spikes burst out'a the ground, whereas I'M talking about the much smaller DoT effect that you get if you try to walk over that same spiky ground AFTER the initial explosion.

Remember that Cursed Thorns has three stages:

1) The debuff on the target doesn't technically hurt them at all, but poops out scary patches of danger-dirt behind them every second.
2) These deathpoops will instantly burst into a spiky pain-splosion if stepped on, OR explode automatically after 6 seconds.
3) After the initial thorns explosion, a small AoE of land stays spiky and gross for a short time afterwards, damaging and slowing anyone who walks over it.

If even those residual AoE patches are dealing thousand of damage for you, I am legitimately horrified. But I'm pretty sure you're talking about the actual explosions themselves. (Not that a 3-4k explosion is anything to laugh at, considering how easy it is to stack those on a target. Remind me to never ever duel you.)

Nahlem
01-09-2017, 10:45 PM
Yes, but I'm betting YOU'RE talking about the big painful explosion that happens when the spikes burst out'a the ground, whereas I'M talking about the much smaller DoT effect that you get if you try to walk over that same spiky ground AFTER the initial explosion.

Remember that Cursed Thorns has three stages:

1) The debuff on the target doesn't technically hurt them at all, but poops out scary patches of danger-dirt behind them every second.
2) These deathpoops will instantly burst into a spiky pain-splosion if stepped on, OR explode automatically after 6 seconds.
3) After the initial thorns explosion, a small AoE of land stays spiky and gross for a short time afterwards, damaging and slowing anyone who walks over it.

If even those residual AoE patches are dealing thousand of damage for you, I am legitimately horrified. But I'm pretty sure you're talking about the actual explosions themselves. (Not that a 3-4k explosion is anything to laugh at, considering how easy it is to stack those on a target. Remind me to never ever duel you.)


I will actually test it and let you know.

Ayre
01-09-2017, 11:07 PM
The thorns dot actually hits for a metric ton if your mage build is set up right. I believe the scary damage is the initial explosion from each spawn of the tracks but the dot damage is nothing to sleep on either

Huo
01-10-2017, 12:18 AM
Yes, but I'm betting YOU'RE talking about the big painful explosion that happens when the spikes burst out'a the ground, whereas I'M talking about the much smaller DoT effect that you get if you try to walk over that same spiky ground AFTER the initial explosion.

Remember that Cursed Thorns has three stages:

1) The debuff on the target doesn't technically hurt them at all, but poops out scary patches of danger-dirt behind them every second.
2) These deathpoops will instantly burst into a spiky pain-splosion if stepped on, OR explode automatically after 6 seconds.
3) After the initial thorns explosion, a small AoE of land stays spiky and gross for a short time afterwards, damaging and slowing anyone who walks over it.

If even those residual AoE patches are dealing thousand of damage for you, I am legitimately horrified. But I'm pretty sure you're talking about the actual explosions themselves. (Not that a 3-4k explosion is anything to laugh at, considering how easy it is to stack those on a target. Remind me to never ever duel you.)

The thing I've been noticing as an Archer, either without freerunner up, or with freerunner but with a slow like crippling mire, etc., I can't move out of the deathpoops before they explode, and DoT with slow afterwards makes it even worse. Any cc makes it so that you have to take every explosion for the duration of the debuff.

Dynasty
01-10-2017, 05:02 AM
The thing I've been noticing as an Archer, either without freerunner up, or with freerunner but with a slow like crippling mire, etc., I can't move out of the deathpoops before they explode, and DoT with slow afterwards makes it even worse. Any cc makes it so that you have to take every explosion for the duration of the debuff.


The buff is pretty long so "any cc" is a bit of a stretch. And most likely you're getting hit with some combinations of manastar, wraith, and crippling slow, which is a substantial slow

Nahlem
01-11-2017, 01:54 PM
I will actually test it and let you know.

I was hitting 200-250 with absorbed 400-500 against full ayanad leather eather. I assume against plate it will be hurtful.

Quillodon
01-11-2017, 06:41 PM
I was hitting 200-250 with absorbed 400-500 against full ayanad leather eather. I assume against plate it will be hurtful.

Haha okay, phew. If you were getting 3-4k on EACH TICK of all those AoE splotches you'd be wiping whole damn raids with three buttons. I mean abyssal is supposed to be good, but not THAT good =P

Still love the skill, though. Thorns ftw!

Teeth
01-11-2017, 07:14 PM
Haha okay, phew. If you were getting 3-4k on EACH TICK of all those AoE splotches you'd be wiping whole damn raids with three buttons. I mean abyssal is supposed to be good, but not THAT good =P

Still love the skill, though. Thorns ftw!
it scales off magic attack, it can do 2k damage when used by a high gearscore player. Each thorn does multiple ticks, and if you stand in one spot it will stack those ticks. If someone gets thorned and then sits in the middle of their raid, it will wipe under geared players easily. Most occultism users dont get abysal occultism though.

This skill is best used in pve since monsters wont move off the thorns. It basically gives occultism users another steady dps skill to spam that does high dps.

The most underhanded thing though is you can thorn someone and then telekinesis them.

People who say they cant walk out of the thorns are probably really laggy or have bad computers, because even npcs can easily walk out of thorns if you cast the spell at a distance and then let them walk to you. Worst case scenario? Just jump on your glider for a second to get out of the thorns.

It's a strong skill, but easily countered if you understand the mechanics.

Quillodon
01-11-2017, 08:38 PM
it scales off magic attack, it can do 2k damage when used by a high gearscore player. Each thorn does multiple ticks, and if you stand in one spot it will stack those ticks. If someone gets thorned and then sits in the middle of their raid, it will wipe under geared players easily. Most occultism users dont get abysal occultism though.

This skill is best used in pve since monsters wont move off the thorns. It basically gives occultism users another steady dps skill to spam that does high dps.

The most underhanded thing though is you can thorn someone and then telekinesis them.

People who say they cant walk out of the thorns are probably really laggy or have bad computers, because even npcs can easily walk out of thorns if you cast the spell at a distance and then let them walk to you. Worst case scenario? Just jump on your glider for a second to get out of the thorns.

It's a strong skill, but easily countered if you understand the mechanics.

Haha ya gotta read the thread before commenting, bud! =P

Taikai
01-12-2017, 11:21 AM
Cursed thorns damage comes in 2 forms.
First is the mine like thorn burst, which drops off of an effected enemy every couple of seconds. These mines have a timer of 4 seconds or will go off if steped on. A target can be hit by every single mine laid down should they step on them.
Second form of damage is in a form of a small damage feild where the thorns bursted out. This area also slows a target inside it, the damage is rather small and a target can only be hit by one damage feild at a time.

In short best way to avoid the damage is to either move away from the fight till the effect and mines have expired or to purge the effect.

Overall the 3.0 patch gave the occultism tree a massive well deserved overhaul in damage as well as versatility. My main class is Skullknight and the changes have turned the tide of battle massively to my favor.

Ohhaider
01-13-2017, 04:56 AM
Cursed thorns damage comes in 2 forms.
First is the mine like thorn burst, which drops off of an effected enemy every couple of seconds. These mines have a timer of 4 seconds or will go off if steped on. A target can be hit by every single mine laid down should they step on them.
Second form of damage is in a form of a small damage feild where the thorns bursted out. This area also slows a target inside it, the damage is rather small and a target can only be hit by one damage feild at a time.

In short best way to avoid the damage is to either move away from the fight till the effect and mines have expired or to purge the effect.

Overall the 3.0 patch gave the occultism tree a massive well deserved overhaul in damage as well as versatility. My main class is Skullknight and the changes have turned the tide of battle massively to my favor.

and as a plate user, it completely shat on my face, kicked my body as it laid down lifelessly, and tap danced on my fingers. i cri every time.

Taikai
01-13-2017, 10:42 PM
What class do you play? There are other ways you can mitigate the damage if you know what your doing

Trusivraj
01-14-2017, 05:50 AM
What class do you play? There are other ways you can mitigate the damage if you know what your doing

I'll be posting a vid of our fight in Golden ruins soon. Those throns really pack a punch, even for an aura/vit class, like myself, when u cant get out of them x.x