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Carendash
04-23-2019, 07:03 AM
Greetings everyone,

In many threads, we had huge discussions about alts and how to behave with those.
We've read a lot of suggestions/recommendations related to it and we want to thank you for all of those ideas. We sincerely appreciate that!

With the maintenance of April 24th, we introduce the gear score requirement which was already having an effect in Korea.
We think that this is the right step in reducing the number of alts which you will face and improving the experience you will have in these instances.

We ask you to participate in these instances and tell us if those changes are having an effect on your server.
As you are writing up your feedback, we would appreciate this information:

Server:
Instance:

We would like to know your honest thoughts about it but in a constructive manner.

As an additional side note:
We are deleting posts which are not related to the topic OR are just meant to disrupt the conversation!

We already want to thank you in advance.

~The ArcheAge Team

magei310
04-23-2019, 07:59 AM
What is the gear score requirement and what instances will be affected? This is going to affect people that change class and start working on a new set of gear completely, Is this taken into consideration?

Guizmo
04-23-2019, 08:15 AM
What value is the gear score requirement ?

Carendash
04-23-2019, 08:18 AM
Heya,

The Gearscore requirement is set to 4000.
Instances that are affected by it are:

Golden Plains Battle
Red Dragon’s Keep
The Fall of Hiram City

Carendash

Reyki
04-23-2019, 08:25 AM
4k sounds reasonable. Won't solve the problem with high GS afk's but it's a start. Hope the afk kick is coming soon and people that circumvent it with macros get at least a time ban.




Make lunagem in honor shop can't be trade to other player problem solve. We need labor limit daily use like in Korea patch but make it lower like 6000 labor or 7000 labor.

If you buy gems for honor and sell them, you're doing it wrong. Other items yield way more gold.
Making them untradeable is an awful idea, since people (especially new players) would have to grind 400k+ honor just to gem their gear with t1. It's totally okay you can buy them for gold.

Zarcata
04-23-2019, 08:26 AM
So grenzt ihr neue Spieler aus, die mit ArcheAge anfangen oder eben jene, die Wiederkehrer sind. Das komplette Hiram-Starterset hat, wenn ich richtig in Erinnerung habe, 3200-3500GS. Jeder, der sich Twinks anschafft, erreicht also diese 4.000 Punkte binnen 1-3 Tagen und das aktuelle Problem ist damit NICHT gelöst.

Vielleicht sollte man an ganz anderer Stelle versuchen das Problem mit den Twinks zu lösen:

Wieso braucht man derzeit Twinks?
Welchen Nutzen bringen Twinks für einen Spieler?
Wie leicht kann dieser Nutzen errungen werden, im Vergleich, wenn man diesen entfernen würde?

- Arbeitspunkte
- Ehre
- Handwerksabzeichen
- Gildasterne
- Grundbesitz
- Ggf. maximaler Skill bei den Berufen
- andere Nationen blockieren/abfarmen

Azia
04-23-2019, 08:27 AM
Well it will certainly knock out all the very low geared alts but there are still very many alts of 4000+who will still get in, we will have to wait & see if it makes any difference. Personally I always enter Golden Plains Battle with my healer alt, but he is 5500 and I do USE his songs and buffs as well as my own dps when in combat. He is not just afk the whole time!

On a negative note it dont take much to boost any alt to the required 4000 and you can be sure it will be done by the determined! I think something like you have in Mistmerrow where if afk for 5 minutes you get kicked but its very easy for a legitimate player to get kicked and where you can re-enter MM you can't do this with Halcy! That is a sore point with me as there are multiple disconnects all the time at Halcy and you have no way of being able to re-enter (same with all the new instances).

magei310
04-23-2019, 08:38 AM
Heya,

The Gearscore requirement is set to 4000.
Instances that are affected by it are:

Golden Plains Battle
Red Dragon’s Keep
The Fall of Hiram City

Carendash

Thanks for the quick info, Not sure if it'll do any good as celestial t1 hiram set is above 4k gear score xD Doesn't take much effort to get that, I recommend 5/6k gear score so they need T2 hiram set with some gems, making it ALOT more costly to get in

MiroH
04-23-2019, 08:42 AM
Keep it at 4k for now and see the result I doubt it will do much but if it persists increase it to 6k.

iamthesky
04-23-2019, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the quick info, Not sure if it'll do any good as celestial t1 hiram set is above 4k gear score xD Doesn't take much effort to get that, I recommend 5/6k gear score so they need T2 hiram set with some gems, making it ALOT more costly to get in

honestly 2 of the free gear sets that were given out previously are above 4k so anyone who has had their alts for a while this is np

Blackonyx
04-23-2019, 08:47 AM
4k is too low. You get 4k gs just from the free gear given away on the anniversary or events.

I'll admit a dirty secret. I have alts (GASP!). With basic gear tickets and easy to get hiram gear (from jake's coin events, etc.), no alt is under 5k.

Thus, I would set the bar at 6k. If someone is active, it is easy for them to get up to 6k gs to participate in those instances.

And for the record, I do not (and have not) parked any alt in any instance.

Blackonyx - If you see an "Onyx" it likely belongs to me. :P

MiroH
04-23-2019, 08:47 AM
Why dont you just let people make entire premade teams for RD and Hiram and teams of 25 for halcy?

magei310
04-23-2019, 08:50 AM
Why dont you just let people make entire premade teams for RD and Hiram and teams of 25 for halcy?

+ten thousand votes (Probably entire western playerbase xD)

YalTheCat
04-23-2019, 08:50 AM
I have access to 6 characters, all of them are over 4k - 4 of those through freebies, 2 through hard work... I am far from unique in this.

Today in RD, of 45 characters in the raid, all bar one were over 4k, only 3 actually active, the other 42 were AFK.

- Disclaimer: only one of my characters has ever accessed RD or Halcy, and never have two been in an instance at the same time.

Xindin
04-23-2019, 08:52 AM
Make lunagem in honor shop can't be trade to other player problem solve. We need labor limit daily use like in Korea patch but make it lower like 6000 labor or 7000 labor.

it will not solve anything, it will be worse cuz (as many ppl write this) u can trade it on non bound items (like Hero Gems) and the price of gems will go up, more ppl will farm honor that way. The GS cap for RD is to low i think, this is rank PRIMORDIAL Boss...but we will see. About halcy well yesterday leader of my raid was some afking alt so half of halcy we got two raids cuz we can't make coraid and i think lv30 on halcy is some kinda mistake :D especially Player Nations and Pirates dont have that kinda low level players and its slaughter when they leave resp area :D

Warhead42
04-23-2019, 08:55 AM
While a 4k gear score requirement will be helpful in combating alts, it does not solve the problem. I recommend the following modifications/additional methods:

1) Implement an Away->Instant Kick function.
2) Increase the requirement to participate in the listed instances to Ancestral Level 15 + 5.5k gear score.

I realize that some alts may meet those requirements, and some new players may not. It's not a perfect solution, but there really is no perfect solution. This is simply what I feel is the best compromise between filtering as many alts as possible while minimizing the impact on newer players ability to join these events.

magei310
04-23-2019, 08:58 AM
1) Implement an Away->Instant Kick function.


I'll just put a heavy weight on my keyboard when I go afk then <- Example why it wouldn't work well at all and is one reason they got rid of the afk kick to server select screen in first place

blizplix
04-23-2019, 09:01 AM
My alts are 5k gear score it should be 6k or 8k. Make all lunagem can't be trade.

Noxmisback
04-23-2019, 09:03 AM
@Carendash :
The 4k GS restriction is pointless, back in the day the 2 soulforged event gave a free set of gear to all account 4kgs-4,5kgs

Source : https://www.trionworlds.com/archeage/en/2016/09/15/celestial-soulforged-gear-is-back/

This change will not changed anything.

Guizmo
04-23-2019, 09:22 AM
The gear score requirement is too low, easy for have 4K GS with event reward.
Need to change 8K GS for Golden Plains Battle, because when you fight against a pirate or player nation with 14K GS, it's easy kill for them.
Need to change 6K GS for Red Dragon’s Keep, because you have little resistance and the healers must focus on you and died many time.
Need to change 5K GS for The Fall of Hiram City for avoid free stuff reward in alt's.

Darsy
04-23-2019, 09:28 AM
Heya,

The Gearscore requirement is set to 4000.
Instances that are affected by it are:

Golden Plains Battle
Red Dragon’s Keep
The Fall of Hiram City

Carendash

My alts have 3.800 alone by having the returners gear on. Which means i could simply just trade one piece of my 9 set erenor gear and i would meet the gs requirements. All that effort for nothing.
And you approach here is totally wrong. Gearscore has no meaning at all. The lower players are more helpful than people that afk. Why isnt there a afk timer like every other instance has ?
Or the easiest solution, enforce the trion rule queuing against alts in arenas is forbidden . Add a report alt button and you will see once people will get suspended /punished via that, there wont be any alts anymore inside.

Titidu80
04-23-2019, 09:34 AM
Personnaly, my alt have 3k gs, i just have to xp a little his hiram gear and i've 4k to put him into red dragon. so it's not enough

gashcake
04-23-2019, 09:42 AM
4k is like no requirement at all lol.
Should be at least 8k + ancestral 34
The new player argument is dumb. New players should be leveling and gearing up anyways, they can wait.

Panterah
04-23-2019, 09:46 AM
My alts have 3.800 alone by having the returners gear on. Which means i could simply just trade one piece of my 9 set erenor gear and i would meet the gs requirements. All that effort for nothing.
And you approach here is totally wrong. Gearscore has no meaning at all. The lower players are more helpful than people that afk. Why isnt there a afk timer like every other instance has ?
Or the easiest solution, enforce the trion rule queuing against alts in arenas is forbidden . Add a report alt button and you will see once people will get suspended /punished via that, there wont be any alts anymore inside.

The report alt, or AFK does seem more plausible. And doesn't punish returning players.

Termocaos
04-23-2019, 09:49 AM
Well it will certainly knock out all the very low geared alts but there are still very many alts of 4000+who will still get in, we will have to wait & see if it makes any difference. Personally I always enter Golden Plains Battle with my healer alt, but he is 5500 and I do USE his songs and buffs as well as my own dps when in combat. He is not just afk the whole time!

On a negative note it dont take much to boost any alt to the required 4000 and you can be sure it will be done by the determined! I think something like you have in Mistmerrow where if afk for 5 minutes you get kicked but its very easy for a legitimate player to get kicked and where you can re-enter MM you can't do this with Halcy! That is a sore point with me as there are multiple disconnects all the time at Halcy and you have no way of being able to re-enter (same with all the new instances).

I can relate, i que Halcy (and only halcy) with my alt, but he's playing songs and healing, he's not super geared, but you don't need gear for songcraft, the 4k gs is going to cull the horde by a massive amount, but just you wait and see, soon people will gear their alts with semi-mediocre gear and that cap will be eliminated almost imediately.

Panterah
04-23-2019, 09:51 AM
4k is like no requirement at all lol.
Should be at least 8k + ancestral 34
The new player argument is dumb. New players should be leveling and gearing up anyways, they can wait.

Sorry, I have to argue on the side of player with only 2-3 hours of game play time. Punishing them for not being Ancestral level 34 is wrong. People without labor can't level up to Ancestral 34 unlike People with Patron. Since the Ancestral level cap has gone up, I have been without Patron, and without time to actually do anything to earn EXP. So, I'm under Ancestral 15 on my accounts.

Shinatobe
04-23-2019, 10:33 AM
GS requirement is irrelevant and useless: There are players with 4k GS being more helpful than 10k+ GS leeching in any instance*

Instead, this would help:
- Ability to create premades with 20+ players
- Votekick + autokick for afkers and leechers

Or track the activity and status of every player based on specific parameters (damage taken, movement, location changes, skills used, and so on...)

*it's a 12k+ without alt stating this

Dexxy
04-23-2019, 10:59 AM
New returning player here, offering input from a fresh perspective.

Raising the GS won't alleviate the problem, well perhaps it will but only in a minor way and temporary.

I've been around a lot of games and if there is something to exploit in a game then players will find a way to do so. That's how it is. If you raise the GS, players will just keep increasing the GS on their alts. You can keep raising the GS, but as long as there is some sort of long term advantage to gain by alting then players that alt will definitely invest more time in gearing them to take part in the events. Its not going to fix the problem.

I understand that you are publisher and not the developer. You're limited to what you can do with the client code, and this is one of the easiest fixes for you to implement.. but it won't work - for reasons stated above.

You can look at why people are exploiting events with alts and remove that incentive, but will that impact negatively on the legitimate player? E.g make honour items untradeable? I think this would be a sledgehammer solution and extremely negative, but it would fix the cause and not just the symptoms. I would think this would be the last resort.

You can look at how many clients per I.P a player can log during events. But then people can easily get around this with software or hardware proxy.

You could have a player made raid that only receives the reward or a voting system (you vote for players that contributed to the event) but again these are flawed solutions because guilds / honour farmers will make raids for just them and all their alts and alts will obviously be voting for one another.

I think the only solution that is ever going to fix this is one requiring human input. Allocate rewards on completion of the event based on a human test. For example, flash a 4 digit code on screen for 2 seconds and then allow 5 seconds for the person to enter that code to receive the prize. This is easy for one player with one client to do. Perhaps someone with 2 screens and 2 clients can complete it to, but I doubt anyone with 3 or more clients could complete the test on all 3 clients. If they can, then hell, they would deserve the honour in my opinion.

Its unfortunate that players ruin games in this way, but it does need a proper solution and not a band-aid masking an obvious going problem.

Excuserino
04-23-2019, 11:00 AM
I guess it will keep people from rolling 100 alts. Maybe they will be whittled down to 8-10 alts if you go 4k. You can pretty much sneeze and get 4k now. I haven't done a single one of these new events because of the alts overrunning anything that gives out anything that can turn into trade-able/sell-able goods. I'm not going to put in the effort just for the alts to stand around and get rewards. Not happening. Let us form our own groups/raids and take them through and then I will participate. This random group queue stuff is just useless when you allow everyone to have unlimited accounts and unlimited alts. Alts have always been the downfall of AA in the US, but this has really brought them into the light.

Pleasedont
04-23-2019, 11:01 AM
\o/ well done, its a start!

And if possible please increase the Red dragon instance to have a min gs of 6k so people arent getting one shotted and going afk!

Excuserino
04-23-2019, 11:01 AM
I can relate, i que Halcy (and only halcy) with my alt, but he's playing songs and healing, he's not super geared, but you don't need gear for songcraft, the 4k gs is going to cull the horde by a massive amount, but just you wait and see, soon people will gear their alts with semi-mediocre gear and that cap will be eliminated almost imediately.

So you drag an alt on follow around playing one song. Good for you for taking that spot away from someone who might actually help you get the win! You are just as much the problem as the rest of them.

ArmanrJakar
04-23-2019, 11:14 AM
GS requirement is irrelevant and useless: There are players with 4k GS being more helpful than 10k+ GS leeching in any instance*

Instead, this would help:
- Ability to create premades with 20+ players
- Votekick + autokick for afkers and leechers

Or track the activity and status of every player based on specific parameters (damage taken, movement, location changes, skills used, and so on...)

*it's a 12k+ without alt stating this

The only one reasonable statement in this discussion. GS requirements will not solve the problem cause problem is not in alts (alt can be as much usefull as main) but in slacking afk'ers. You don't need high GS for using harpoons, transporting packs etc.

Btw. you can easily reach that GS with some useless cheap delp eq that you can use on as many alts as you want. And you can still afk on your main as many players doing right now.

There is only one solution - tracking activity of everyone and ban from instances each of slacking style players. I guess that solution will need many developing changes, so best temporary solution should be just expand the size of premade team.

BrutLeX
04-23-2019, 11:41 AM
4k GS limit is just a joke, real players have 6k+, we are not in 2015 anymore that 6k is a challenge to reach. Just make the instance requirement like 6k+.

Halcyona: remove the 1k LP pot reward from it, or make it account bound, a lot of players abusing this by logging in alts (and AFK'ing with them), on the same account to acquire this free LP pot on all the chars.

Knife
04-23-2019, 11:51 AM
Keep it at 4k for now and see the result I doubt it will do much but if it persists increase it to 6k.

Gearscore requirements above 4k are absolute stupidity. Introduce a participation requirement instead.

Albo
04-23-2019, 12:11 PM
this gearscore update will not work properly, cos if i can mail my 3 weapons to an alt, then he can have for sure more than 4k gs points :P the best option will be kicking afkers with more than 1 min being afk, gs points 5k limit, and the last one: to do a limit of damage to dragon or whatever mobs on raid, so if u guys put these 3 options, then maybe will change something, otherwise there will be 0 progres agains alts

Olympia
04-23-2019, 12:19 PM
Keep it at 4k for now and see the result I doubt it will do much but if it persists increase it to 6k.

reasonable answer,couldn't agree more....i kinda think that 4k is too low,since i see many idle alts over 4k,around 4.5...we will see,fingers crossed!

pavmelas
04-23-2019, 12:25 PM
don't put content in a instance. instances is the opposite of good gamedesign.

Because of some reward is being handed out only in instances i am forced to join em with main and of course i aminactive during that time.

Make everythiong that can be obtained in instance in the real game and you want have 1 less inactive person.

Alpenvibes
04-23-2019, 12:28 PM
the first solution to this alt problem to me, would have been to restrict AA running only one time per PC. like it is in korea as far as i know.

Appoloin
04-23-2019, 12:36 PM
It would be better to kick people that get a afk tag in those instances.


GS is not the issue as other's have already said, I see both high and low gs afk'ing in all those instances because, why not, they get the same reward even if they put no effort into it.

Kavy
04-23-2019, 03:07 PM
The 4k GS requirement negatively affects more actual new players than it does alts.

What we need is Korea's vote kick system or if possible ... restrict clients to 1 per PC similar to what KR/RU have done, but only do so for Fall of Hiram/RD/Halcy only. This still allows people to play alts in the overworld without issue, while only limiting their abuse on daily arenas.

Aney
04-23-2019, 04:09 PM
Everything is wrong with you asking this question to the community, anyway i understund you trying to do good but sorry what ,4k GS ? are you serious ? all alts did have 4.2k GS with old soulfourge gears at 3.5 which is like 5k now

I think Best Way to stop the alts is to restrict the multiclienting to 2 client per pc using HWID, mac address and what not.

i personnaly think 2 clients is fair for everyone, you cant stop multiclienting using Virtual machines or multiple PCs i think its fine if they go that far to just have an alt.

this will help the economy, prices may rise but the normal ppl will gain more gold, items will have value

Kxnnxth
04-23-2019, 04:29 PM
I will feel bad for those new F2P players that will miss out on that 1000 labor potion from Golden Plains Battle.

Noxmisback
04-23-2019, 05:16 PM
best solution so far :

Or change reward and put all item bind, like Infusion Supply Kit and you can choose:
xx Heroic Hiram Infusion (Binds on Pickup)
or xx Abyssal Enhancer rank 3 (Binds on Pickup)

as i said to previous topic, KR version of the game cannot launch more than 1 client / computer :

Result 50 players active during red dragon :

https://youtu.be/67v8wr8mdzk?t=198
https://youtu.be/dpy9qygavus?t=300

but it's too much to ask for gamigo so let just change the reward for halcy / hiam / RD.

Vivvy
04-23-2019, 08:00 PM
Yeah add a kick system that'll get abused daily. That's a great idea. Smh...

Snowchild
04-23-2019, 08:44 PM
4k gs requirement is absolutely stupid. From all the alts I've seen, half of them were 5k+. 4k gs also only reduces amount of alts to flood in for about a week as it doesn't take much effort to achieve 4k gs then they will be back in. The alts in free gears from previous patches are already 5k+.

Please raise gs requirement to at least 7k and enables this aswell

Or the easiest solution, enforce the trion rule queuing against alts in arenas is forbidden . Add a report alt button and you will see once people will get suspended /punished via that, there wont be any alts anymore inside.

YalTheCat
04-24-2019, 12:37 AM
best solution so far :

as i said to previous topic, KR version of the game cannot launch more than 1 client / computer :

Result 50 players active during red dragon :

https://youtu.be/67v8wr8mdzk?t=198
https://youtu.be/dpy9qygavus?t=300

but it's too much to ask for gamigo so let just change the reward for halcy / hiam / RD.

You think so? - Doesn't take much to set up VM's capable of playing this game, and with a bit of VPN based knowledge it's easy enough to run many of those..

YalTheCat
04-24-2019, 12:41 AM
Yeah add a kick system that'll get abused daily. That's a great idea. Smh...

Actually, it could work with a slight change... have an indicator in the raid window for AFK players, and only they can get vote/kicked...

DarkWolf
04-24-2019, 01:26 AM
The only solution is a report button inside instances. Where you report the player for doing abusive/trolling behavior like being afk, abusing mechanics to make it harder for players and such. And the person that gets too many reports gets a debuff to stop him from joining a week or more. And adding some ingame requirements for every participant that will limit afk when you add some things that they will need to accomplish in that time table.
(Kill 15 wolves + trade in 10 packs + feed 10 people) something like this will really limit the people staying afk because they will have to join the raid with everyone and if someone doesn't do these he won't get the main rewards. In this situation many people will troll if they can't manage it so the report will work.

Reyki
04-24-2019, 02:24 AM
Server: Taris
Instance: Fall of Hiram

GS requirement didn't help at all. Still 4 people afk. Highest of them with 11k GS. Plus afk kick won't help since that person used something to not get the away tag.
Hand out temp bans or instance bans to those people. That's the only language they understand.

BloodyAlex
04-24-2019, 05:20 AM
it has to be higher
5500ish

Vaioo
04-24-2019, 06:07 AM
People keep saying to remove multiclient in glyph "like korea has it", but korea run multi clients.. AltAge is the game business motto. Always has been since the game launched.

4k GS requirement that is a good start! Some effort / activity is better than nothing.

Just please don't go overboard by listening to some of the player's bonkers suggestions.

Jeremiah179
04-24-2019, 06:18 AM
An activity requirement would be much more effective.

Fall of Hiram: 20 Players 200 Supplies needed. Have a base quest where you get 10 points for chopping a tree, mining an ore, killing a wolf or animal, give 20 for mammoth, and 50 for Tree Ent. Also, give 5 points for turning in a pack. Make people earn 200 points in order to collect the final reward.

Red Dragon: Make players at some point during the quest shoot the dragon with a harpoon 10-15 times not sure which number is best. Same thing, they do not get to collect a reward at the end unless this quest is completed. Spawn an NPC at the end like Hiram instead of looting the Dragon. (the idea here is low GS would die from dragon and have to run back over and over from Nui, and if the 25 afk players all shot the dragon 15 times, the quest would be half as miserable as it is now!)

Halcyona: Either give lower GS players a task to perform, like cannons or guns they can man inside base or something or make it 8K GS on Legacy and perhaps lower on Fresh Start or both. A big problem with Halcy is PN/Pirates get to Q all real people and put THEIR ALTS in the other two raids to weaken them.

Last: Increase the amount of players you can put on a team. Make it 25 for RD, and 15 for Halcy. (basically 1/2 a raid) Hiram you can complete with 10 really. However, you could also favor premade raid teams over single entries, and then they would not muddy the works. So it would select premade teams first and only take singles if room.

Last last: please figure out what makes a halcy instance collapse and fail and kick everyone out, it is a miserable mechanic right now everyone pulled in, held for 5 minutes and disbanded.

TmzOS
04-24-2019, 06:33 AM
RD must be at least 6~7k .. and we need an auto kick for AFKs.

Goethe
04-24-2019, 08:08 AM
RD must be at least 6~7k .. and we need an auto kick for AFKs.

I do agree, we need a 6-7k minimum gs for and the auto-kick with punishment for afk, like there is in naval, not only that's very reasonable, but it's also the minimum for a player to be of any help in those instances, specially Halcyona and RD.

Lavia
04-24-2019, 09:45 AM
4k is like no requirement at all lol.
Should be at least 8k + ancestral 34
The new player argument is dumb. New players should be leveling and gearing up anyways, they can wait.

Totally agree!


The gear score requirement is too low, easy for have 4K GS with event reward.
Need to change 8K GS for Golden Plains Battle, because when you fight against a pirate or player nation with 14K GS, it's easy kill for them.
Need to change 6K GS for Red Dragon’s Keep, because you have little resistance and the healers must focus on you and died many time.
Need to change 5K GS for The Fall of Hiram City for avoid free stuff reward in alt's.

i think :
8k For RD and Golden Plains
6k for Hiram City

Someone with less than 8k GS is useless in RD or golden plains they just die there!

And with 8k GS you only have Alts from people who are really nerdy or played their alts bevore.

With 8k GS you dont prevent new players from playing ... its normal people who just started cant do engame content ... it was always like that ... low GS people also dont kills Delphinad Ghost ships or Kraken

Lavia
04-24-2019, 09:46 AM
I do agree, we need a 6-7k minimum gs for and the auto-kick with punishment for afk, like there is in naval, not only that's very reasonable, but it's also the minimum for a player to be of any help in those instances, specially Halcyona and RD.

And yes an AFK-Auto-Kick would also be very nice!
And maybe bad people who go AFK for the next some days (like in arena when you go afk)

Colthoron
04-24-2019, 10:27 AM
Greetings everyone,

In many threads, we had huge discussions about alts and how to behave with those.
We've read a lot of suggestions/recommendations related to it and we want to thank you for all of those ideas. We sincerely appreciate that!

With the maintenance of April 24th, we introduce the gear score requirement which was already having an effect in Korea.
We think that this is the right step in reducing the number of alts which you will face and improving the experience you will have in these instances.

We ask you to participate in these instances and tell us if those changes are having an effect on your server.
As you are writing up your feedback, we would appreciate this information:

Server:
Instance:

We would like to know your honest thoughts about it but in a constructive manner.

As an additional side note:
We are deleting posts which are not related to the topic OR are just meant to disrupt the conversation!

We already want to thank you in advance.

~The ArcheAge Team


It's better than nothing, but you aren't solving the issue with the game, merely treating one symptom. Alts fundamentally change the economy, real estate, raids, and instances. They need to go, period. Until that is done, you are passing out a single band-aid to the man with a thousand cuts. Make alts against the terms of use, give people a week to a month to adjust inventories, land ownership, etc, then start dropping the hammer on abusers. If you are diligent, you will see this issue vanish. No one will risk all that time and money on a perma-ban.

For the Gear Score advocates here, it doesn't matter what it is set at, the alts will achieve it eventually. Your argument for making it higher as mains shouldn't have an issue reaching it works against you. If you think it is so easy for a main to be at 6-7k, then alts have the same level of difficulty in achieving that level. GS is not the criterion you should use. I actually saw a post where someone suggested newer players not participate at all. That should make the game fun for new accounts!

I like the suggestion of participation, it's much better. Banning alts is your only real solution, though.

noob25
04-24-2019, 11:17 AM
The gear score requirement is too low, easy for have 4K GS with event reward.
Need to change 8K GS for Golden Plains Battle, because when you fight against a pirate or player nation with 14K GS, it's easy kill for them.
Need to change 6K GS for Red Dragon’s Keep, because you have little resistance and the healers must focus on you and died many time.
Need to change 5K GS for The Fall of Hiram City for avoid free stuff reward in alt's.

+1

Zherbus
04-24-2019, 12:21 PM
Alts can reach 4k gearscore too easily. It needs to be moved up to 5k at least.

Guizmo
04-24-2019, 01:50 PM
Feedback today
Server: Taris
Instance: Red Dragon’s Keep and The Fall of Hiram City
Requirement change nothing allways same alt's, half of raid

Akiromi
04-24-2019, 01:53 PM
Feedback today
Server : Jakar
Red Dragon : Worst than before your patch. 50% of alts. Never see that before.

YalTheCat
04-24-2019, 02:55 PM
I think Best Way to stop the alts is to restrict the multiclienting to 2 client per pc using HWID, mac address and what not.


sorry luv, it would take me (and anyone with an ounce of nouse) around 10 minutes to get round anything they can do... without using VM's or multiple PC's..

YalTheCat
04-24-2019, 03:00 PM
Todays gearscore of the AFK's in Red Dragon highest was 13k, lowest (of those AFK remember) was 8k.. The 4-7k players were trying their hardest, and thanks to some awesome healing we won... - with 15 active players, only 6 of which were over 10k.

Gearscore cap made no difference - and I will repeat, the LOW gear score players were the ones not AFK...

Hiram was a joke, again it's the 11-13k gearscore characters that were AFK, everyone else (most around 7k) worked their arses off..

Shinatobe
04-24-2019, 10:54 PM
Consider this. Active* players with low GS need the rewards to make progress. They tend to work harder to get them. High GS can live without them, hence they can just sit back and watch animes when things go wrong.

*active = not an alt

I'll stick to my previous view
GS requirement is irrelevant and useless: There are players with 4k GS being more helpful than 10k+ GS leeching in any instance*

Instead, this would help:
- Ability to create premades with 20+ players
- Votekick + autokick for afkers and leechers

Or track the activity and status of every player based on specific parameters (damage taken, movement, location changes, skills used, and so on...)

*it's a 12k+ without alt stating this

A 4K GS playing songs during 8s before he dies is more useful than an 8k+ who stays AFK.

DarthKurisu13
04-24-2019, 10:58 PM
Its a start for Red Dragon and Hirma City which I think is good still have high GS afk though , but for Golden Plains battle I don't mind the alts since it helps Queue pop for those who dc. yesterday had to wait so long for queue pop as compared to before

romonster
04-25-2019, 12:36 AM
I don't think a gear score requirement is going to be very effective, for the reasons several other people have posted. I understand that it happens to be something you can implement right now, as opposed to something that needs to be developed.

What's needed is a system that weeds out inactive players. (And if a character is participating in the raid and helping everyone complete it, I am sure no one cares whether it's an alt.) The game already tracks the use of skills and the amount of damage done, as you can see in the combat log, so it seems like it shouldn't be too complicated to use a system based on those. Two possible ways come to mind:

-- The character must be actively using combat or healing skills throughout the duration of the event; if they stop, they become marked as AFK and get kicked.
-- The character must do a certain minimum amount of damage and/or healing in order to be eligible for rewards from the instance. (Or, where appropriate, they must complete a minimum number of missions.)

Shantar
04-25-2019, 04:26 AM
-- The character must be actively using combat or healing skills throughout the duration of the event; if they stop, they become marked as AFK and get kicked.
-- The character must do a certain minimum amount of damage and/or healing in order to be eligible for rewards from the instance. (Or, where appropriate, they must complete a minimum number of missions.)

Easily one of these options but the latter is more preferable imo.

Zodan
04-25-2019, 04:46 AM
Server: Taris
Instance: Golden Plain Battle

Feedback: i cant join it. im a new player. im at 3.5k GS and trying hart to get more. now that i cant get the labor pot it takes even a little longer :P when i reach the 4k in a few weeks or month you dont riese the GS needed again... but my hopes are you change it somehow that the low gear ppl can join again. its not fun being lockout off content bc off some ego ppl that put there alts in there!

edit says: And most old ALTs are over 4k GS. so it wont make much diffrents exept for ppl like me that cant join now!

DeusAmoeba
04-25-2019, 07:34 AM
Server: Jakar
Instance: Red Dragon

Feedback:

Still an alt issue, would recommend he min GS on all of them being 6k or implementing the vote-to-kick option to deter people from bothering to join in the first place as alts.
Perhaps add 5 minutes before each starts where kicking someone would allow new people to join during that time.
I think 6k would solve the problem in the short term though, or make it a report-and-bannable offense to queue any of them with more than one account at once.

Knife
04-25-2019, 07:57 AM
Server: Jakar
Instance: Red Dragon

Feedback:

Still an alt issue, would recommend he min GS on all of them being 6k or implementing the vote-to-kick option to deter people from bothering to join in the first place as alts.
Perhaps add 5 minutes before each starts where kicking someone would allow new people to join during that time.
I think 6k would solve the problem in the short term though, or make it a report-and-bannable offense to queue any of them with more than one account at once.

Once again, raising the limit is an absolutely stupid suggestion because a 10k AFK is still worse than a 4k new player. The kick option's fine but people need to stop seeing gearscore as ultimate measurement.

Kxnnxth
04-25-2019, 10:11 AM
Since everything is already instanced then what if we had separate ones?
1)For people with higher than 6k gearscore
2)For people with less than 6k gearscore (1/2 rewards)

Deflow
04-25-2019, 11:03 AM
Oh dear if the staff here think 4k gs is high enough not to be an alt we are in more trouble than I thought.

Dear staff member my alts have been 4k + for 2 years sitting in free gear that you gifted us. Is this topic actually being serious? Try 5.5k or 6k or dont even bother. The fact you even think 4k might be enough just shows me how bad this game is managed. Apparently you have 0 clue on what is going on in our game. Very worrying.

Kxnnxth
04-25-2019, 01:35 PM
Oh dear if the staff here think 4k gs is high enough not to be an alt we are in more trouble than I thought.

Dear staff member my alts have been 4k + for 2 years sitting in free gear that you gifted us. Is this topic actually being serious? Try 5.5k or 6k or dont even bother. The fact you even think 4k might be enough just shows me how bad this game is managed. Apparently you have 0 clue on what is going on in our game. Very worrying.
What stops alts from getting their gearscore to 5.5k or 6k? You cant endlessly raise the requirements, this will only negatively affect new players.

Guizmo
04-25-2019, 02:15 PM
Feedback today
Server: Taris
Instance: Red Dragon’s Keep and The Fall of Hiram City
Requirement change nothing allways same alt's, half of raid

Instance: Halcyona
So with 4K GS requirement, we have this score.
https://zupimages.net/up/19/17/t4qw.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=19/17/t4qw.jpg)

HoleID
04-25-2019, 03:16 PM
As many state , 4k Gs is basically Free Gear on Legacy, and even if higher, some player will still manage to hit the 5k Gs to run the event Daily, worth in the "long term".
And sadly in the end, it will hurt the few new player who wants to join, and try it.

Afk timer? useless they will alt+tab "Z" every 5minutes to avoid the kick.
The futur Vote/kick system will be corrupt by the number of alt in each raid, like you can Already see in Judgement Court.
And it may become even Worse than now, Alt players don't like you? feel trolly? got a bad day?
they will be able to kick you from the raid if they bring enough alt in it. Crazy.

Can you do something about it? Let be honnest, without a move, No you can't.

Or, If you really are Against this kind of behavior, put a warning at Login during a week
Then install a log system who flag Ip if they are 2 or more in the same time in these new instances.
Since Hiram/Halcy/Dragon/Nory are on the same separate Server, you can bring that on it, leaving the "classic" servers, outside of this Red Line.
Sure some will manage to counter that, vpn, Cloud computing vm and so on, but it will reduce the number.
Right now it is just too easy.
From that put an Overlord eyes Gm over the Event server, who check from time to time, during Event schedule, see if everything's okay.
Can't do that? then prepare for the Alt Army Kick Fest.

But Kuddos for the interest you put on this issue.

Boneglue
04-25-2019, 03:41 PM
Hello Carendash,
I like the Idea, but i would make it for more than just this Instances.
The idea is Great, but i would it make aswell for Arena for Example Arena Joining for gearscore for 3k-3,5k another for 3,5k to 4k and so on.
Its would make the Arena more Actrative.
Aswell as for Greater and normal Dungeons there should be a Gearscore Requierments and not a Level.You could make Diffrent kind of Difficults for the Dungeons.Some Greater Dungeons are not to beat with a Gearscore as normal gs Reaching at this time
Best Regrats

Megadicksonfire
04-26-2019, 04:15 AM
GS requirement to enter is just bad for new players, the infusions from the instances are really needed for new players to progress unless you are jobless and play a lot but then you have no money to spent in the game, just bump the GS requirement to 14k and watch all the plebs asking for more GS requirement cry.

The real solution that you guys wont implement because it actually require development from Xl is make the rewards based on participation, turn in at least 10 packs on hiram, kill/heal X players in halcyona, hit red dragon X amount of times, etc, if you dont reach the minimum u get nothing from the instance.

Also, the real problem is the 14k gs afks in the instances.

What is stopping people with erenor gear mailing it to their alts and instantly bypass your GS requirement?

Mindaugas
04-26-2019, 04:27 AM
Don't spread lies here. This GS cap currently work. Before finish RD with random queue been impossible now 3 day in row finish without any problem with random queue before halcy start. We still have alts but not like before 40 alts 10 main. Hiram city even with 8 people possible finish 200.

ZanGeetsu
04-26-2019, 08:01 AM
what to put limiters, gs is fine but I think it should be something more like 5k gs
I think depending on the daily event should have a limiter gs
being sincere begins to tire too much of the alt can not be that of 1 raid alla 10 alts if they are not more
in the faction war between we were 5 or 6 gs of + 10k the rest did not arrive nor 8k gs
This game depends a lot on people, the event all there is to do it in raid or group, you can not alone that's why this is a very serious issue regarding alt, 4k gs is nothing if it is true that it reduced something alt, in the daily events but as long as this lasts, my alt does not have hiram or lunagem arrive 4k gs the difference is that I use them to move packages to make larder etc. my main pj is centered craftear lunagem and make weapons and armor hiram
apart my alt 2 have a paid pattern for 1 year that's the difference

Allyanna
04-26-2019, 09:25 AM
Here is why a 4K gear score limit is too low.... My EU alt has NEVER killed a mob in the game. She has a gear score of 4.4K thanks to a set of free soulforged gear and is Ancestral Level 28. That is why it's too low. All 3 of my EU alts are like this.

HolyPotatoLord
04-26-2019, 09:35 AM
Or, If you really are Against this kind of behavior, put a warning at Login during a week
Then install a log system who flag Ip if they are 2 or more in the same time in these new instances.


Flag the IP eeh?
Great idea! So my boyfriend, our roommate and I can take turns to see who gets to queue the instances. (I'm being sarcastic btw.)

I agree with the people who said 4k is too low. At least for Red Dragon, the worst of the instances in my opinion. Halcy raid can get up to 100 people while pirate and nations only get 20, so if you get a bunch of alts is not as noticeable. I have seen some very useful low gear-core people in fall of Hiram. They can gather resources and be productive. Red Dragon however is a whole different story. A 4k gs can't even survive under the dragon so there is no way they can be useful there. Best case scenario they will keep coming back and harpooning between the deaths. Worst case scenario they will go afk at the nui. RD needs a GS raise the most.

Gitano
04-27-2019, 02:43 PM
Server : Jakar
Red Dragon, Hiram, Halcyona

- raise the Gs requeriment to 5k
- put AFK quick ASAP :D

Blauauge
04-27-2019, 03:30 PM
Ok this is pretty easy to fix if ur serious about it. First of all u can set gs requirements of like 6k or 7k but thats not the most important part. Just give it a leadership limit from the previous month. Make it 500-600 leadership and it will decrease the amount of alts a bit. If u make it 800-1k u can basically make sure that u only have real players participating. And everything i mentioned here is easily doable for every player playing this game on a regluar basis. (Those are the ppl u should care about anyways)
Also if u want further suggestions on how to fix stuff like economy, pvp content etc. just dm me. Im playing since release on a regular basis and i have alot of experiance in pvp and pve since im totally f2p while playing in alot of guilds that mattered when it comes to "server domination" if u want to call it like that. Also im known for answering ppls questions when it comes to gear and skill choices.
Ty in advance.
Edit: 4k gs requirement is not going to do anything since u can reach it in like 10 mins on practically any alt.

Knife
04-28-2019, 12:37 AM
Ok this is pretty easy to fix if ur serious about it. First of all u can set gs requirements of like 6k or 7k but thats not the most important part. Just give it a leadership limit from the previous month. Make it 500-600 leadership and it will decrease the amount of alts a bit. If u make it 800-1k u can basically make sure that u only have real players participating. And everything i mentioned here is easily doable for every player playing this game on a regluar basis. (Those are the ppl u should care about anyways)
Also if u want further suggestions on how to fix stuff like economy, pvp content etc. just dm me. Im playing since release on a regular basis and i have alot of experiance in pvp and pve since im totally f2p while playing in alot of guilds that mattered when it comes to "server domination" if u want to call it like that. Also im known for answering ppls questions when it comes to gear and skill choices.
Ty in advance.
Edit: 4k gs requirement is not going to do anything since u can reach it in like 10 mins on practically any alt.

Sry Blau but that's a horrible idea. I don't care enough for rifts and PvP so you'd effectively lock out people like me from content I actively participate in or even lead if the system thinks I have to be raidlead and nobody else wants to do it.

Newsun
04-28-2019, 02:30 AM
Server : Taris
Dungeon: Red Dragon
GS: 8k and Ancestral 34

Server : Taris
Dungeon: Hiram
GS: 6k and Ancestral 20

Server : Taris
Dungeon: Halcyona
GS: 8k and Ancestral 34

Chikieboo
04-28-2019, 10:56 AM
as a returning player I would say 7k gs would be a better requirement then 4k.

zanti
04-28-2019, 05:29 PM
fall of hiram
only 9 active people and 2 left because of all the alts or lazy people we only saved 123 people and i died 3 times. I am almost always 190-200 finish as i am always stuck with leading.

gs made no difference. we the people trying get punished by the people not doing squat.

Kavy
04-28-2019, 10:09 PM
You're hurting new players from entering Fall of Hiram/Red Dragon/Golden Plains with the 4k GS requirement FAR more than actual alts.

Make it so you ONLY get rewards from these events based on meeting a contribution requirement DURING the event itself.

For example,
- Killing mobs/wolves, lighting braziers, handing in packs gives you points in Fall of Hiram.
- Doing X amount of damage to Red Dragon during it's grounded stage OR shooting it with a harpoon during the two flying stages gives points.
- Getting Kills/Assists gives points to meet the contribution requirement in Golden Plains.

Goethe
04-29-2019, 04:23 AM
You're hurting new players from entering Fall of Hiram/Red Dragon/Golden Plains with the 4k GS requirement FAR more than actual alts.

Make it so you ONLY get rewards from these events based on meeting a contribution requirement DURING the event itself.

For example,
- Killing mobs/wolves, lighting braziers, handing in packs gives you points in Fall of Hiram.
- Doing X amount of damage to Red Dragon during it's grounded stage OR shooting it with a harpoon during the two flying stages gives points.
- Getting Kills/Assists gives points to meet the contribution requirement in Golden Plains.

If you have 4k or under, you are useless in these instances, that has helped curb some of the altage in them, and I still think they should increase to 6k, a real player can easily achieve that.

Reyki
04-29-2019, 05:06 AM
If you have 4k or under, you are useless in these instances, that has helped curb some of the altage in them, and I still think they should increase to 6k, a real player can easily achieve that.

Every 4k GS is way more useful than any afk.
In Hiram they can do and drive packs, lit braziers.
In RD they do the same damage with the harpoon as everyone else
Only in Halcy a GS requirement makes sense so that pirates and nations can't feed of the low GS that hard. And I actually say that as a member of a nation.

Salphiragod
04-29-2019, 05:29 AM
Oh, a 4k can ride a freighter.

But they don't, they just afk, since they are alts, that's the same bs excuse ppl always give, in RD, sure, they can fire a harpoon, when they are not getting 1-2 shotted by the dragon or afking in the nuia, then they do zero dmg to the dragon, and we have an hour long RD instead of a 25m one.

I agree, people can gear up rather fast in this game, and they should have something to gear up, 6-7k should be minimum for those things, you could get 4.5-5k from free gear alone.

Colthoron
04-29-2019, 06:37 AM
As stated by others, GS requirements are not working. Last night, about half the raid AFK in the base and most of them were 8-12k GS.

If you aren't going to ban alts, put a participation requirement in these raids please.

Kalli Matthews
04-29-2019, 07:12 AM
GS requirement doesnt solve the afk-leecher problem at all (though it helps a bit). in one of the last halcys i saw someone standing useless around with her main and alt which both are in the 5 digit GS range, only moving it a bit every few minutes to avoid the afk tag. and she sure wasnt alone doing this (i can only identify those from my server). for hiram city and RD, some kind of contribution system might work, but for halcy we need something different. like a check how long a single character is under the influence of the peace buff, how far he moved or something like this. also, the map needs to be smaller, maybe with invisible borders, so noone can hide at the far edge of the map, in the river leading to hellswamp etc.

romonster
04-29-2019, 07:31 AM
The gear score minimum was something they could implement right away. Any contribution based system, while it might be much more fair and effective, will require development and testing. That takes time. So it makes sense that they tried the simplest way first.

romonster
04-29-2019, 07:37 AM
If your players who are leeching have gear scores of 8-12k, they are most likely NOT alts. So please stop calling them that. It's inaccurate and damaging.

DWolf
04-29-2019, 01:31 PM
alts should be able to run instances.
as far as afk leeching....many games have solved that by observing the afk..and then kicked (auto) and then afk'er is de-buffed(que close) for 30 minutes or more.

Carelya
04-29-2019, 03:52 PM
For me, a higher GS-Cap could be helpfull on Golden Ruins, but I don't want to exclude to much Players who startet or came back after a break.
But something have to Change. I have seen >12k GS People at Hiramfall and RD afking and be useless. GS is not all, it is a start into the right direction, now make another Step please.
It is maybe a bit harsh, but who is afk or not participating (running trough a wall doesn't count as participating of course) should get kicked and get a 48h or longer Debuff. So they can't enter again and think twice the next Time about afking there.
Also, if the reward would be given out for participating instead of just beeing there, this might could let People have a reason also, for not afking and just let the others work.

Thanks for reading and have a good Night.

The Hunter
04-30-2019, 08:15 PM
Playing on Kadum. Instance not important, because I long ago gave up on the gear chase and stopped doing raids. This change just makes it even less likely I'd ever bother again. You're continuing to raise the barrier to entry ever higher for new players or those whose interests are primarily focused on other aspects of the game. I can't see how that single-minded focus on hard core raiding and PvP serves you well from a business standpoint, since there are a LOT of other sorts of gamers out there. But I suppose AA made the decision to write them off quite a while back. (shrug)

BaksteenNL
05-01-2019, 04:15 AM
I failed today's Red Dragon because there were too many alts in it.
The ONLY reason people were whining for a minimum of Gearscore was so they can join with their alts (mostly high geared players join with alts that are also high geared)
and still manage to kill it because everybody has a minimum of Gearscore.
This isn't fair to the new players joining, yes that still happens its a big miracle
Korea and others got the Alt system in Instances which is way more effected then having a minimum of Gearscore

Next to that there should be an auto-kick function with Instances Ban for people that go either AWAY or do not Heal or DPS the players/bosses.
Instances Ban is for a short amount of time like 24-48hours this would also really work, with this Ban you will get like everything in Instances.
Including Hiram City, Red Dragon, Halcyona but also Drill Camp, Noryette, 10v10.
The only way people learn from their alt abuses is by taking it at the source, if they can't Queue they won't join.

Blauauge
05-01-2019, 07:49 AM
As i said earlier gs requirements dont mean anything so the only way to cap it is to make use of something thats pretty hard to get on multiple accounts. The only thing in the game that kinda measures how active player actually play the game is leadership. If u play for a month and u dont even do alot of rifts etc u basically get 500-600 leadership points. That includes doing a worldboss here and there and mby do a bunker or totem every 3-4 days. So @Knife its possible to get the leadership without stressing too much. 500-600 leadership requires u to play the game. Nothing more nothing less.
Tbh i rather exclude one or two ppl that dont manage to get 500-600 leadership which is as i stated quite easy than having to deal with an afk ratio of like 50%+ on rd or hiram city.
They shouldve introduced a leadership requirement for pretty much every event there is including mirage events. This would benefit the economy alot coz ppl wont be able to go there with their main and 5 alts to grab the rewards.

007andahalf
05-01-2019, 07:49 AM
or you know maybe just split up halcyona in tiers of gearscore. that way new players can actualy kill stuff and veterans don't whine that the instance is full of alts with low gearscore. my sugestion would be: 0-5000, 5000- 8000 and 8000 and above this would make it alot more interesting and solve alot of the isseus.

Blauauge
05-01-2019, 07:58 AM
Splitting it up is not gonna work since the population is low anyways. In halcy alts arent really a problem i think the thread is directed more towards pve instances coz they have a higher alt ratio than halcy.

Another thing i really wonder about is whether its possible to get one of the comunity managers on ts or so to talk about things that need to be fixed in general. @Carendash

Reading forums is a bit of a yikes when it comes to finetuning skills or single branches of the economy since most ppl on forums have a wrapped view of whats going on coz some are new players, some play the game in a very casual manner and some just dont understand how things interact with another.

Colthoron
05-01-2019, 08:28 AM
If u play for a month and u dont even do alot of rifts etc u basically get 500-600 leadership points. That includes doing a worldboss here and there and mby do a bunker or totem every 3-4 days. So @Knife its possible to get the leadership without stressing too much. 500-600 leadership requires u to play the game. Nothing more nothing less.


This is an unreasonable criterion. Assuming you aren't out there politicking for thumbs, a 500 leadership score requires 50 rifts/bunkers/raids. No way a casual player reaches that. Even a dedicated daily player doesn't reach that without an extra grind. I play the game daily and I generally top out at 300-400 leadership. So you'd be locking me out. And the guy with the 40 alts you are trying to eliminate? They've all got the 500 leadership because all the alts are gratuitously using that Thumbs Up option.

The same can be said for GS requirements. It's been stated in this thread a couple of times that a 4k or even 6k GS is easy to get. The thought, apparently, is that you can basically get it with stuff you get out of dumpsters in Sanddeep. That's ridiculous. If you play the game normally, you'll hit about 2k at Level 55. So even a 4k GS requires a good deal of effort beyond the questing and newer players who progess normally through the game are going to get locked out of this instance for awhile. It took me at least 8 months to reach 4k. Could I have done it quicker? Sure. But not overnight! Let people play the game the way they wish without the pressure of having to reach your expectations for participation. Many people play this game for reasons other than GS. It's not the end-all.

Eliminate alts. Then you don't have to jury-rig every aspect of the game to compensate for the phenomenon that nobody wants.

007andahalf
05-01-2019, 08:39 AM
Splitting it up is not gonna work since the population is low anyways. In halcy alts arent really a problem i think the thread is directed more towards pve instances coz they have a higher alt ratio than halcy.

Another thing i really wonder about is whether its possible to get one of the comunity managers on ts or so to talk about things that need to be fixed in general. @Carendash

Reading forums is a bit of a yikes when it comes to finetuning skills or single branches of the economy since most ppl on forums have a wrapped view of whats going on coz some are new players, some play the game in a very casual manner and some just dont understand how things interact with another.

ok so ignoring the wishes of a part of the community is the way to go? this is the problem with this game some people just have a very narrow mindset and only think of the elite players. If the game isn't atractive to new players or casual players because they only listen to the veterans who have high gear. this game will only die an even faster death. wich new player will stick to the game if there is no way for them to join parts of the game and contribute to it. i'm not saying my idea would work, but saying that because players are new or casual they shouldn't have a say is not the way to go. everyone has a right to express their opinion on how they think the game should evolve.

Blauauge
05-01-2019, 08:44 AM
Well im saying that new players obviously dont understand most of the game which is only natural since theyre new. And same goes for casual player. Say u wanna talk about balancing skills for example. In that case it makes no sense to ask a 8k gs player who just started the game 2 months ago. Its way better in this case to ask ppl that play the game since release and mby played more than just one class. Im mainly talking about those "im a 8k gs dr and i get run over in arena by a deflier" topics that are just not relevant balancing wise.
Most ppl only see the problem but have no idea how to fix it which is a big part of the complaints in the forums.
If u think about the conversion healer topic. Half the ppl prolly dont know that it exists so its pointless to ask these ppl about balancing it no?
So u have to ask the ppl that played it or played against it on a high lvl.
Problem is that most ppl dont think two steps ahead. -> which shows in some threads that contain stuff like "nerv this nerv that"
So if u wanna finetune stuff there is no point in asking ppl that dont know alot about that topic. And generally speaking ppl that know about those things and how they affect other parts of the game are rare.
U can compare it to rl decisions too. If u want to talk about the expenses for the military as a military officer u dont ask the next door peasant what he thinks about it do u ?
The problem with only reading the forums and not talking to other ppl actually decreases the chance to find those ppl coz on the forums everyone can just post something and come up with a seemingly good reason why something is the case.
If u actually talk to ppl u know pretty fast if the person knows what he or she is talking about or not.

Kymss
05-01-2019, 09:11 AM
Gear score may need to be specific event related. I have friends who play but in a sandbox have been enjoying the game's other aspects and not gearing. They play daily for hours but choose not to gear. They are actually starting to work on hiram gear but very slowly. They love fall of hiram city and do a good job for their team. People who afk in fall of hiram are the problem. GS doesnt prevent afk. A higher gear score would prevent many "potatoes" from an event they do contribute in. They are still valuable members of our community and should not be prevented from joining this fun event.

Red Dragon..now my friends don't go in there. They realize they cannot contribute. People who bring low gs afk alts in these events are selfish. That event could use a higher gs requirement. However we did see someone with an alt in there who had even taken off his gear after the event started so he wouldnt have the gold cost to repair it. :( Not sure what the answer is for selfish people.

Halcy..i just shake my head. It is hard to take it seriously with so many disconnects, raids not co raided, randomly selected leaders who may or may not lead, imbalance etc. I personally go in and have fun working with what we have..no matter the gear score and get my labor reward. It seems more of a social event with shout chat and combining diff servers.

Thanks for asking for feedback on the event gs requirements.

Blauauge
05-01-2019, 09:13 AM
Yeah what Kymss wrote is exactly the reason why gs wont solve it. Rather make it leadership related as i stated above so that everyone can join. The only ppl that will struggle with that are ppl that abuse huge numbers of alts. Its important to balance the leadership points tho. Coz if u set them too low alts can participate.

Knife
05-02-2019, 02:06 PM
Yeah what Kymss wrote is exactly the reason why gs wont solve it. Rather make it leadership related as i stated above so that everyone can join. The only ppl that will struggle with that are ppl that abuse huge numbers of alts. Its important to balance the leadership points tho. Coz if u set them too low alts can participate.

The only real way to stop people from afking in instances (because it's not alts that are the problem, it's people AFKing) is to introduce a participation system. You have to punish the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s who just put their alts into an instance without doing a thing instead of creating band-aid fixes that hurt the playerbase more than needed.

pvcpvc
05-02-2019, 08:31 PM
Just add quests like in mm

For hiram mountains

use wood on 20 fires or gather 20 resources delivery 20 resources kill 50 animals, everything counting towards a 100% quest, like 5% for each of the 20 stuff and 2% per animal

For rd = Shoot harpoon at least 10 times, so healers could do it too

Halcy = Afk auto kick with later join from ppl on queue, id rather let a new queued player get a free win with 1 minute left on halcy than a afk guy the entire time.



I know quests are done by the korea guys, so it would be difficult, but i think the things i said solve all the problems


Btw, if you finish halcy and rd with afk tag you get no reward got screwed twice already because had to be afk for work stuff (rd i dont know if its nui when he dies or afk tag, but halcy was an afk tag for sure)

DarkWolf
05-03-2019, 05:05 AM
Yeah for Hiram there should be quests for participation and in that one it can be implemented easier. You have so many stuff there that can be used as goals for the participation. But for the rest is the problem there aren't more options in the rest. Halcy i think is the biggest problem since people just go with alts there, the game can't detect afk players properly and it can easily be bypassed. So i really don't know how they can use that for those 2.

Bellalinda
05-03-2019, 03:03 PM
Since it is difficult to monitor the AFK abusers, only the team in the instance would know. Perhaps the "general" of the raid could be given an ability to kick any AFK members. Or give the team the ability to "vote" them out.....maybe 3 triggers and then they are booted. I know this could be abused as well but the team is the one that suffers from the greed of the AFK member. Just a thought...…..

HolyPotatoLord
05-04-2019, 03:05 AM
Since it is difficult to monitor the AFK abusers, only the team in the instance would know. Perhaps the "general" of the raid could be given an ability to kick any AFK members. Or give the team the ability to "vote" them out.....maybe 3 triggers and then they are booted. I know this could be abused as well but the team is the one that suffers from the greed of the AFK member. Just a thought...…..

That is how it works in korea, and I believe the sooner we get the option to vote/kick the afk people the better.
As you can see on this video it's a window that pops up and the raid can vote to kick the person.

https://youtu.be/67v8wr8mdzk?t=436

Nyan
05-08-2019, 04:33 AM
Garbage.

This doesn't prevent AFK players and it prevents returning players with low gearscore to get back to a decent gearscore since they're kept out of important events.

It is not hard to monitor AFK players, from the start, if they can press the confirm button they should not be afk at all following that action. So any player that ends up afk, should not get a reward. Even if let's say, a regular player ends up being afk for IRL reasons, they should understand that it is a one time incident and that not being rewarded is part of having a bad timing because of IRL so not rewarding any AFK player should be fair and prevent alt users from wanting to queue their alts. Inactivity isn't so hard to monitor, there is a clear difference in behaviour from an active player vs inactive. Even if alt users would move them to avoid the afk status, they're not moving them all at all times, they will not do actions that active players will do (use packs, skills, be hit by mobs, target mobs etc) so it is just about getting the time to set the algorythm, but I get it that's it's easier to say that monitoring is hard than spending some time to understand what actions each event implies and what is the behaviour of AFKs.

(And no, giving power to players, even active players, to determine who to kick is unacceptable, it might work in Korea but the mentality from Westerners is awful enough to not trust any method involving players decisions)

ArdentHaste
05-08-2019, 09:40 AM
Heya,

The Gearscore requirement is set to 4000.
Instances that are affected by it are:

Golden Plains Battle
Red Dragon’s Keep
The Fall of Hiram City

Carendash

Not sure I'm a fan of this. Plenty of people not an 'alt' with low gs. The problem could be solved I think with a change in the game mechanic, allowing the team lead to identify and kick at the confirm stage those that are AFK, and maybe increasing some requirements - ie, instead of completing with just 1 pack, need maybe 3 or 5. 10 would be too many or something else that makes it difficult for an individual controlling more that 1 character to handle.

I hot box with 2 alts, but don't take them to events - use them in farming/labor tasks - running packs with a follow ticket etc.- in these cases an AFK kick would not be appropriate - particularly if the character is a money paying account - maybe if patron by APEX, but still don't like that idea. It's just that the 'events' like CR / GR, etc, get bogged down with inconsiderate people bringing multiple alts and prevents many 'mains' from participating.

DWolf
05-08-2019, 02:17 PM
Well it will certainly knock out all the very low geared alts but there are still very many alts of 4000+who will still get in, we will have to wait & see if it makes any difference. Personally I always enter Golden Plains Battle with my healer alt, but he is 5500 and I do USE his songs and buffs as well as my own dps when in combat. He is not just afk the whole time!

On a negative note it dont take much to boost any alt to the required 4000 and you can be sure it will be done by the determined! I think something like you have in Mistmerrow where if afk for 5 minutes you get kicked but its very easy for a legitimate player to get kicked and where you can re-enter MM you can't do this with Halcy! That is a sore point with me as there are multiple disconnects all the time at Halcy and you have no way of being able to re-enter (same with all the new instances).

alts should be allowed to participate in instances...all of them

sblmnl
05-08-2019, 06:38 PM
As many have stated above, limiting gearscore cannot, by itself, not solve the problem of AFKs ruining instances and may have the unintended effect of blocking new/returning players from progressing.

Part of the problem, in my opinion, is that the approach to forming teams for the new 'PvE' instances (FoHC, RD and Nory) seems to have been recycled from the 'team matchup/balancing' code used for arenas. Also, in the instances which merge teams together, raid lead defaults from the character that created a team to the 'oldest' character (ie created earliest), presumably an expedient way of picking a leader for merged-team raids. However it makes no sense in FoHC and has no function other than to remove the team creator's ability to manage their team during the event.

Leaders usually actively recruit and select participants (and people join) based on their reputation for being a good leader/contributor, but this counts for little in FoHC for example, when a hand-picked team is 'matched' by the system to another team with a lot of afks.

In my opinion, the following need changing:

Remove 'team matchup' from instances like FOHC where it has no function (increase team size to compensate if necessary). If this isn't possible for some reason, then use a 'co-lead'- system to merge the teams (like an open world raid). The point is that the leader who created the team and effectively 'approves' the proposed participants should keep control of the team's composition, as well as responsibility for managing the consequences of their decisions.
Stop raid lead defaulting to the 'oldest' character participating, keep it with whoever created the team;
Allow leaders to kick participants who afk, and also to invite new participants during the raid (like an open-world raid). While there is already the potential for this mechanic to be abused, leaders that choose to trash their reputation like this soon find people unwilling to join their teams;
Enable team members to re-enter these instances following disconnection. Currently, players remain in the team but are unable to re-enter the instance until the next reset, and receive no reward regardless of their participation. Players that were kicked, on the other hand, should be removed from the team and unable to reenter the same instance unless invited back onto the team (see above).
For FohC, particularly if a contribution based system is adopted, remove all mobs and nodes after the timer reaches, say, 2:00


For arenas/instances which mandate use of individual combat skills to achieve the objective, higher gearscores may be appropriate. Go by what leads are commonly requesting when forming these teams.

[EDIT] And, did I mention Enable team members to re-enter these instances following disconnection. The lag in the instance is bad enough (yes, even running just one, optimised, client). I like the instances on the whole, but wasting my time and effort because of THIS is making me want to /uninstall.

Lavia
05-09-2019, 01:24 AM
Hi ... 4k is way to less ...

yesterday i was at Halky-1kLabor-Quest-NPC and there been arround 10 alts from ONE player (well knewn on the server all with same costume) and ALL of them had 4k GS ...

Greetings Lavi

Panterah
05-09-2019, 09:34 AM
If you have 4k or under, you are useless in these instances, that has helped curb some of the altage in them, and I still think they should increase to 6k, a real player can easily achieve that.

When you say real player, are you referring to the people who use real money in some way to get their Hiram gear up?
Or are you talking about the people with no known real life (school, work, family, physical friends) who play the game all day and have lots of gold to convert to APEX?

I see real players who have very little time, no Patron, so no labor to identify infusions nor gold to use them when they can identify them. Also, new players have to work to hit that 4k gear score, but if they can not do events to earn Honor for gems because they don't have the minimum gear score, then they are hindered in their progress.

I am liking the suggestion by a good number of people, even Shinatobe, that having the rewards based on participation is key. This will also keep the high gear score AFKers from entering.

sblmnl
05-09-2019, 06:12 PM
Lavia's observation emphasises that gearscore isnt effective in preventing AFKs. Raising it higher just disadvantages more people who want to participate. We have all seen very high GS people AFK in these raids.

We need a different solution - either allow AFK kick during the event (preferably, fix the way teams are working too so that leaders can manage this effectively (see http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?350408-Feedback-Gear-Score-Requirements&p=2739815&viewfull=1#post2739815) a vote can easily be trolled by putting enough alts in the team to defeat the vote) - or some kind of participation requirement, which may be difficult to balance. Bear in mind a 4k gs character isn't going to be able to kill anything in these events.

Alternatively, if a 'contribution' mechanism (pack turn-ins, mob kills..) is adopted rather than a 'kick afks' mechanism, nodes and mobs should vanish when the timer is on 2:00, so leeches can't simply stand around till the end and then go dig up ore or whatever to complete these requirements.

Varren
05-10-2019, 03:21 AM
I think 6k gs to join atleast red dragon and halcyona is a must. Even with the old soulforged gear given for free and t1 gems from honor shop you can hit 6k. The problem is these alts clog up the instance so that red dragon cant be completed at all. Last RD I went to we had 2 parties of lvl 55 4k gs alts that never moved. RD I did before that over half the raid was under 6k gs afk at the nui. Its getting to the point even fall of hiram becomes hard because people are making 10 man afk alt groups which is fine unless theres only 3 other real players in the instance due to dcs. These issues are making less and less people want to even try to do the instances which is even worse then some new players not being able to do them.

AlYasein
05-10-2019, 07:46 AM
I think 6k gs to join atleast red dragon and halcyona is a must. Even with the old soulforged gear given for free and t1 gems from honor shop you can hit 6k. The problem is these alts clog up the instance so that red dragon cant be completed at all. Last RD I went to we had 2 parties of lvl 55 4k gs alts that never moved. RD I did before that over half the raid was under 6k gs afk at the nui. Its getting to the point even fall of hiram becomes hard because people are making 10 man afk alt groups which is fine unless theres only 3 other real players in the instance due to dcs. These issues are making less and less people want to even try to do the instances which is even worse then some new players not being able to do them.

Alts are not the only one going AFK in RD and FOHC.
6K GS, would mean that returning player like me would need more than a month to access these dungeons, no thanks

merveil
05-16-2019, 01:17 PM
6k gs requirment would be rediculus i have alot of friends who just started the game and excluding them from most of the game will just make them quit this game is not only made for peoipole who have been playing for a long time. best way imo would be to split up queing in tiers of gearscore. that way new players can still enjoy the game and veterans don't complain as much about alts in the instances.

Bluemoor
05-17-2019, 02:34 AM
Server: EU-Taris
Instance: The Fall of Hiram City
GS Requirement: remain 4k

putting gs requirement helps a lot
i think nth can help with afk problems
even 10k gs may go afk...
at least, now i dont see half raid of alts/afks

although that make troubles to return players who need those infusion
4k is not too difficult for those who really like this game
T1 gem gives 24 gs, so just put some gems or make them +1 +2
that is not much money

===============================

Server: EU-Taris
Instance: Red Dragon's Keep
GS Requirement: increased to 5k

same as fall of hiram
less alts/afks now
but 4k is not really enough for standing red dragon's attacks
i understand lower gs players tried to work hard
but they didnt contribute much as they were sometimes one-shotted...

i wish the gs requirement will go up to 5k
(5k is like full T1 celestial armors/instrument/bow
T3 epic main weapon or T2 divine with some gems)
not like fall of hiram, lower gs could drive freighters or do mining
red dragon is a boss fight
players need better gears to stay alive

i personally prefer 6k
but making it 6k may due to longer queuing time
as 6k is not that easy to achieve
have to start putting gems or you need many scrolls to awaken hiram gears
or p2w crafted gears/lib gears
5k sounds reasonable to me
you dont need many scrolls just to awaken your weapon

Shilena
05-18-2019, 03:44 AM
Server : Taris
Instance : all of them

This is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, having low gs don't make you not succeed any raid, having afk morons does.
Right now in RD more than 35 players are afk, including me because I'm done playing for others.

People who actually play will do that with their alts and they'll be more useful on a hauler or with a harpoon than any 13k gs afk ♥♥♥♥er.

I hope at some point these instances will be properly ajusted, meaning those who don't actually do anything will not loot anything because the game is encouraging social parasites, exactly the opposite of what an MMO should do.

Newsun
05-18-2019, 03:54 AM
Server: EU-Taris
Instance: Red Dragon's Keep
Increase the members you can recruit on the recruit/search tab from 10 to 30/40

Server: EU-Taris
Instance: The Fall of Hiram City
Increase the members you can recruit on the recruit/search tab from 10 to 20

User Seven
05-22-2019, 11:49 AM
The best fix

The best fix would set a contribution requirement for each character. Each character must generate a contribution score equal to or greater than minimum score in order to receive reward. I would propose the following calculation for FoHC:

Each Pack turned in = 2 point
Each wolf killed = 1 point
Each Pack created (mining, hunting, chopping) = 1 point
Minimum contribution point score = 50 points

For killing mobs that drop packs there would be potential of 1 point for each pack created. 9 points for treant, 3 points for mammoth, 1 point for deer. Points would be allotted by damage/healing contribution.

If people that help are rewarded, and AFKs get nothing--the garden would weed itself.

Thank you for your consideration.

Allyanna
05-23-2019, 04:22 AM
6k gs requirment would be rediculus i have alot of friends who just started the game and excluding them from most of the game will just make them quit this game is not only made for peoipole who have been playing for a long time. best way imo would be to split up queing in tiers of gearscore. that way new players can still enjoy the game and veterans don't complain as much about alts in the instances.

AS for RD, a 6K GS minimum makes sense. You get 1-shot at 4K so you are just wasting space that could be taken up by someone who has the gear to help with the fight. It has nothing to do with excluding a returning player and everything to do with your survival chances. Even at 6K in RD, you are apt to be 1-shot and be a waste of space in the raid.

Lunaryaa
05-23-2019, 06:07 AM
The best fix

The best fix would set a contribution requirement for each character. Each character must generate a contribution score equal to or greater than minimum score in order to receive reward. I would propose the following calculation for FoHC:

Each Pack turned in = 2 point
Each wolf killed = 1 point
Each Pack created (mining, hunting, chopping) = 1 point
Minimum contribution point score = 50 points

For killing mobs that drop packs there would be potential of 1 point for each pack created. 9 points for treant, 3 points for mammoth, 1 point for deer. Points would be allotted by damage/healing contribution.

If people that help are rewarded, and AFKs get nothing--the garden would weed itself.

Thank you for your consideration.

I really like that one!

EU-Taris
Fall of Hiram City:
Gearscore is not that much of an issue here. A 3k gs alt can still mine, chop trees or drive a hauler and pick packs.
Bigger problem are afk's which aren't only low gearscore characters a lot of times :c

Red Dragons Keep:
Let's be honest.... any character with soulforged gear and t1 gems or hiram t1 (no gems or few gems) is literally one shot here.
My alt for example easily reaches 4k gs and is ancestral level 28 (!). So even putting a level requirement is not helpful here (No, my alt does not join any instances)

Raising the gearscore requirement to 6-7k and adding an afk kick might work better in my opinion

Izze
05-23-2019, 12:10 PM
The entire conversation over gear score has become ludicrous. A player's ability to play the game has ZERO to do with gear score, AND IT NEVER HAS. Score does not equal skill. All gear score means is that a player has mastered the ability to grind Hiram infusions. Period. It doesn't mean they have any experience or any skill, and it sure as hell doesn't guarantee that they will contribute anything to a raid. Just as many higher gear score players enter raids and go afk or sit on their ♥♥♥♥♥ as low gear score players. This obsession that gear score means anything is ignorant and a waste of time. Players should be measured purely on whether they actually participate when they are in raids or not. While we cannot do anything about players who join raids and do nothing to contribute, we can do something about afk players. And it requires nothing more than an afk kick being built into raids. That's it.

As for skills, we need to stop judging players skill by their gear score. Score does NOT equal skill. Plenty of lower gear score players have skill, just not the time to waste grinding for Hiram or the real life money to spend to buy apex to sell for gold to buy gear. Income level shouldn't become a measuring stick for a damn game. Moreover, plenty of low gear score players enter raids and don't go afk - they do their best to participate and be a team player in the raid. Maybe they die faster from a lower defense, but so what? That's what rezzes are for. At least they are trying, and they are learning how the raids work so that as their gear score increases they will be a better participant. This is how communities work. This is how people learn to play the game. And let's be honest, plenty of high gear score players sit on their ♥♥♥♥♥ and do nothing or go afk in raids, so let's stop lying that gear score has anything to do with level of participation.

Players should be judged solely on if they are doing their best to participate, and NOTHING ELSE. And let's get real, raid members can see each other and they know who is sitting on their ♥♥♥♥♥ and who isn't.

As for the suggestion that we start assigning points, I can see where that would seem fair, but unfortunately, the suggestion that each character get points for their contribution will not work considering that the reality of raids is that we have too many raid leaders playing gods right now, and limiting players participation and/or contributions based on their gear score. For instance, ordering lower gear score players to only being allowed to drive haulers around in FoHC, when they are CLEARLY capable of doing more (like killing wolves). FoHC is an easy, easy raid where gear score doesn't even matter, but people are still ordering people around by gear score when they don't even need to just because they are foolishly obsessed with equating score to skills. They should be assigning tasks simply by what needs done, not by gear score. By your point system, lower gear score players would get almost nothing even though they are participating, because the raid leader won't allow them to do anything to get points even when they are capable of doing so.

Not to mention the selfish raid leaders excluding and/or kicking players from raids like cr/gr/wb. Gear score has NOTHING to do with any of those raids, but there are still raid leaders playing gods over gear score just because they can. Being a raid leader does not make people smart or fair.

At this juncture, if we cannot get people's heads out of their arses over gear score so they allow all players willing to actually participate and contribute to get into raids, we will lose so many players who quit because they can never get into content that we won't have to worry about it anymore, because the raids won't have enough players in them to succeed anyway.

There is a reason why dungeons and raids have level requirements. Level requirements are more fair and reasonable than gear score. Is it the be-all end-all answer? NO. Because there is no be-all end-all answer. That's the hard part everyone just needs to accept and deal with. There will always be players who get into raids and don't participate or contribute. There will always be players who grind and/or buy a gear score who cannot play the game to save their lives. There will always be whiners and complainers. Cause people. Period.

But I will take a 4k gear score player who is trying over a 12k gear score player who does next to nothing in a raid but run his mouth every day of the week.

The only certain thing that can be done mechanically is adding an afk kick to all raids. That will reduce the number of players going afk in raids and earning credit they don't deserve while making the raid harder for everyone else. That's it.

But if we also reward the players who actually participate and contribute in raids by allowing them into raids regardless of the fact that they have a 4k gear score, and we kick the people who don't participate and contribute when they are in raids regardless of their 10k gear score, then we can at least set the tone for the game that what matters is participation, regardless of who you are or what your gear score is.

Valben
05-25-2019, 04:14 AM
Yo know what I hate more than AFK/alt chars on instances? Players who quit raids (especially RD) because there are alts.
They don't even try. Only scream "we're screwed, too many alts" and then quit. You are exactly like those alts or even worse.
You could help, maybe it would be doable if you try. It would only last longer than normal. But no, you prefer to screw yourself and (most importantly) everyone else in the raid.


Regarding vote-kick: there should be mechanism that avoids abuse. No single person should have the authority to do that. It's called vote-kick for a reason. It should be possible only if at least half of raid will agree with that.
Also IMHO this AFK/vote-kick should come with a week-long ban on all instances.

Enchantingmelody
05-31-2019, 01:49 PM
https://i.imgur.com/7RTnSHX.png

Erestor
06-11-2019, 12:16 PM
Greetings everyone,

In many threads, we had huge discussions about alts and how to behave with those.
We've read a lot of suggestions/recommendations related to it and we want to thank you for all of those ideas. We sincerely appreciate that!

With the maintenance of April 24th, we introduce the gear score requirement which was already having an effect in Korea.
We think that this is the right step in reducing the number of alts which you will face and improving the experience you will have in these instances.

We ask you to participate in these instances and tell us if those changes are having an effect on your server.
As you are writing up your feedback, we would appreciate this information:

Server:
Instance:

We would like to know your honest thoughts about it but in a constructive manner.

As an additional side note:
We are deleting posts which are not related to the topic OR are just meant to disrupt the conversation!

We already want to thank you in advance.

~The ArcheAge Team

Gear score is not the issue, it the damn afking or not helping on the event,dungeun. So my tip to you is a afk timer. as soon as you hit afk you get kicked. gs limted will not help when requiredmend is 6k gs and 11k gs is just standing around doing nothing/ hitting afk. What gs limted help to that? moost lower gs need the events more then higher.

Vaioo
06-11-2019, 12:44 PM
I hope at some point these instances will be properly ajusted, meaning those who don't actually do anything will not loot anything.

I'm pretty sure they already implemented (in a maintenance without saying anything) a performance requirement for RD.

If i queue an alt and that alt is not 100% active, moving around or shooting harpoon, the alt doesnt get the RD loot reward.. even if i dont touch client for like 60 seconds but make sure i dont get the AWAY tag, i still get no loot if i dont put serious effort into playing the alt.

So keep in mind, those afk scumbags that actually dont help at all, usually dont get any reward, and waste their time.

Gl hf

AJ Big
06-13-2019, 01:43 PM
I think the 4k requirement in The Fall of Hiram City.

However, I do not believe this gearscore helps very much for Golden Plains Battle or Red Dragon's Keep.
I'd recommend increasing this to 6k for GPB and RDK.

In FHC, any player can be useful assuming they are not afk. Low geared people can focus on collecting and turning in packs which are created by higher geared people. Something you may also consider it implementing a Minimum average gearscore of the 20 players that are selected for the instance. Too many low gears and they won't be able to kill the pve mobs which are required to be able to complete the challenge.
For GPB and RDK, anyone with lower than 6k gear is just a hindrance. 6k is still low when compared to someone above 10k but I think the average of all players is still below 10k. People below 6k in RDK won't even be able to do sufficient damage to the Red Dragon to be useful and are hard for healers to keep alive as they take massive damage from Red Dragon abilities.

Xindin
06-14-2019, 05:30 AM
I think the 4k requirement in The Fall of Hiram City.

However, I do not believe this gearscore helps very much for Golden Plains Battle or Red Dragon's Keep.
I'd recommend increasing this to 6k for GPB and RDK.

In FHC, any player can be useful assuming they are not afk. Low geared people can focus on collecting and turning in packs which are created by higher geared people. Something you may also consider it implementing a Minimum average gearscore of the 20 players that are selected for the instance. Too many low gears and they won't be able to kill the pve mobs which are required to be able to complete the challenge.
For GPB and RDK, anyone with lower than 6k gear is just a hindrance. 6k is still low when compared to someone above 10k but I think the average of all players is still below 10k. People below 6k in RDK won't even be able to do sufficient damage to the Red Dragon to be useful and are hard for healers to keep alive as they take massive damage from Red Dragon abilities.

I dissagree, u can make 10k gs req and still 10k gs+ ppl will afk. I see on rd ppl with 6,7,8,10,13k gs and they are afk, sure alts are plague on instance like rd or halcy, but main problem are afkers !! + on rd phase with shooting harpons it dosent matter ur gs still same amount of dmg, the number of shooters counts. And i know that players with low gs are hard to heal but its not imposible^^ if the players with high gs are too few they will shoot for ages :D

conclusion: increase gs req. on RD and Halcy = higher gs alts <-- because it is profitable (gold crate+honors). Which leads to a situation with rich people who can afford to gearup alts they are becoming richer.

That is my opinion on the subject incresing GS req.

Mangogogo
06-14-2019, 07:19 AM
Just remove the instanced stuff and make everything open world. Or just make it a dungeon that people form a party for so they don't match up with afkers.

Make content that players can choose who to participate with. Not forced to play with afkers that get the same rewards for doing nothing on the character while they play on another.

Noxmisback
06-16-2019, 03:44 AM
https://i.imgur.com/bMq9fyx.png

EU 16 june 2019

More than 50% AFK even the vote kick function will not do much in 5.5

The situation is unaceptable, this things not happen in RU and KR version fix your ♥♥♥♥ Gamigo

Noxmisback
06-16-2019, 03:56 AM
This not happen in KR or RU version of Archaege, fix your game :

https://i.imgur.com/SoSqFza.png

https://i.imgur.com/eqSu8Ly.png

Ripside
06-17-2019, 09:02 AM
AFK kick/ban please.

Stabsum
06-17-2019, 09:43 AM
Those of you thinking kick function is gonna be a magic bullet are gonna be real disappointed when it goes live. The fact that you cant replace the players that are kicked is gonna be the downfall. Instead of 50% of the raid afk, you just wont have those people in the instance any more...so they wont contribute still..its a literal non-solution.

EziFreshPlayer
06-18-2019, 03:26 AM
Im new player maybe 30 40 days here on Ezi.
Im patron and im 4800 GS i play everyday and work hard for this 4800GS.
Im maybe more atctive then most old palyers!

Start now and try to make 6k GS w/o all knowledge for last years to make that!!!

Nygau
06-18-2019, 05:13 AM
4K helps at least a bit, but there is still ppl trying to leech while doing nothing for it.
Its also easy for a lot of ppl with 10k GS to mail a piece of trade able gear to alt and give it 4k gs.. now they are with 2 chars afk.

The real method would only be a afk kick.. you dont have anything to look for in an instance if your afk anyway..normally you go to an instance to participate, so if you are afk might as well get out too :-)

Im sure nobody would mind xD

theeasyrider
06-18-2019, 06:01 AM
I am also in favor of the afk kick. I am not against ALTS in General as it is legit and normal and you can't by no means find anything against it, if someone wants to spend his time working on 10 alts, let him, ist annoying and time consuming, but hey let him do it. It's nothing illegal.
But when it Comes to dungeons, and Events afk-alts destroy the gemeplay and should be avoided, this is where afk timers can help.

Gearscore is no indication for alt, i have certainly lower GS than many many alts from high end gamers^^

And if you get kicked for being afk you should get debuff for not rejoining Event for 12h or something, if you are more often afk and get kicked the debuff should stack.

and of course you have to find a way to prevent bots ....

r3zs1ckn3ss
06-18-2019, 02:22 PM
The best fix

The best fix would set a contribution requirement for each character. Each character must generate a contribution score equal to or greater than minimum score in order to receive reward. I would propose the following calculation for FoHC:

Each Pack turned in = 2 point
Each wolf killed = 1 point
Each Pack created (mining, hunting, chopping) = 1 point
Minimum contribution point score = 50 points

For killing mobs that drop packs there would be potential of 1 point for each pack created. 9 points for treant, 3 points for mammoth, 1 point for deer. Points would be allotted by damage/healing contribution.

If people that help are rewarded, and AFKs get nothing--the garden would weed itself.

Thank you for your consideration.

I definitely like this idea. Maybe a point for each mammoth dropped if contibuting to kill and 2 for each treant killed?

nyan
06-23-2019, 08:23 AM
I have outright stopped going to Red Dragon instance because of so many afk people. Every time I went to RD there was only like 5 people killing it at the end, and while I wasted countless mana pots tanking the dragon, I begged them for help but they just sat on side watching.

Why set the gearscore to 4k when a person with a 4k gearscore will just get one-shot by the dragon, even if they don't afk they can't help with the fight because of death buff. If you want 4k gs people to participate, lower the dragon's strength and if you don't want that then they shouldn't be there.

The only way to fix the problems with alts and afk at events is to make it like bdo if you don't do enough dmg to the boss you don't get the reward. It's not fair to have 5 people doing 90% of the work and getting the same thing as somebody that didn't even touch the boss.
As for Fall of Hiram make it part of the quest that you have to put in enough packs or kill a certain amount of mobs. And Golden plains just needs a way higher gearscore limit period.

Basically what I'm saying is make quests that require participation, therefore they must help to get a reward. Or reward higher things to those that work harder. If you don't change these events, I'm pretty sure soon nobody will go to them cause it's just not fair.

ArdentHaste
06-23-2019, 08:47 AM
Server: all
Instance: All but also includes events

the problem with 'Alt's' is not that they exist it is just that the game mechanics are such that someone running more that 1 character - even if they are both paid accounts - have a very negative impact on Gameplay with the owner bring both at the same time to the same instance or event - 1 of the characters will be standing still, not participating but in the end will garner full benefit. I have no problem with multiple accounts - I have them myself - I'm just mindful of the impact on others - it limits other players abilities to get into events and instances if I bring more than 1 at a time and overall reduces the 'firepower' of the group.

I would seem rather easy to identify players using the same IP address and limit to 1 character at a time to an instance or event - but not for every day activities such as farming crops or running packs. Or to monitor player interactions - ie, a player standing still during CR should be autobooted from the group - repeat offenses 1 month ban from the event so they don't eat up slots. The limit of a GS is not only ineffective, but it also really hurts those trying to level up .

ArdentHaste
06-23-2019, 08:51 AM
I definitely like this idea. Maybe a point for each mammoth dropped if contibuting to kill and 2 for each treant killed?

Don't really like this one. Some players are MUCH slower than others - ie a 200 ping would probably not make the minimum score unless those reaching minimum score were limited from further contribution, allowing the others an opportunity to make it.

ArdentHaste
06-23-2019, 08:55 AM
2 kicks in a month getting you banned from events/dungeons/instances for 90 days would fix that in short order

romonster
06-25-2019, 12:27 PM
2 kicks in a month getting you banned from events/dungeons/instances for 90 days would fix that in short order
Surely you realize how easy it would be for players to abuse this to grief anybody they don't like.

REBORN
06-26-2019, 07:05 AM
Just remove the instanced stuff and make everything open world. Or just make it a dungeon that people form a party for so they don't match up with afkers.

Make content that players can choose who to participate with. Not forced to play with afkers that get the same rewards for doing nothing on the character while they play on another.

This one for sure. So tired to be forced certain time to do stuff in a game. Have it like back in the days, dungeon you access when YOU like. Now it's so stressed to do all the events after each other. You can't even play the game how you like anymore. Remove event/instances or make it open to join all the time, whenever you want to do it. I can only game at nights and I must do the instances to progress , then I can't do simple things like traderuns.

Islyn
06-26-2019, 07:28 AM
This one for sure. So tired to be forced certain time to do stuff in a game. Have it like back in the days, dungeon you access when YOU like. Now it's so stressed to do all the events after each other. You can't even play the game how you like anymore. Remove event/instances or make it open to join all the time, whenever you want to do it. I can only game at nights and I must do the instances to progress , then I can't do simple things like traderuns.

So you cannot just get a group and do serpentis/dahuta whenever?

Tsuganashi
06-26-2019, 07:39 AM
Greetings everyone,

In many threads, we had huge discussions about alts and how to behave with those.
We've read a lot of suggestions/recommendations related to it and we want to thank you for all of those ideas. We sincerely appreciate that!

With the maintenance of April 24th, we introduce the gear score requirement which was already having an effect in Korea.
We think that this is the right step in reducing the number of alts which you will face and improving the experience you will have in these instances.

We ask you to participate in these instances and tell us if those changes are having an effect on your server.
As you are writing up your feedback, we would appreciate this information:

Server:
Instance:

We would like to know your honest thoughts about it but in a constructive manner.

As an additional side note:
We are deleting posts which are not related to the topic OR are just meant to disrupt the conversation!

We already want to thank you in advance.

~The ArcheAge Team

The problem with alt is not that they exist, but the kind of use they are given and it becomes disgusting when they are used against the community. For example, in all the Fall of Hiram that I attended there were always alt but in some cases the same players said they were theirs and left those characters as bait for the wolves and I think that contributes to that being that it took the place of someone else but strives to help inside everything. There are others that simply put alt to the raid and leave them standing without doing anything, even sometimes I touched group with 15 alts and the 5 that we did the rest of the things (kill wolves, cut and mine, deliver packages and protect) we went to try to enter other raid of instance because I was lost... should limit by IP the number of accounts that can enter the special instances and in the event that they use VPN to tie the accounts with an ID or a domain then even if they use VPN can limit access by that identifier to avoid displeasure to the rest of the players. But please, this is not the only case where they put alt and ♥♥♥♥ the rest, even when they pirate at sea they use those alt to block access to flags, that can even be considered legal? I think they have to readjust the use of the word "fair play" in every aspect more than profit generates.

Ollolol
06-26-2019, 07:59 AM
I haven't been active in forums so I'm just getting to this discussion. I think mass alts are horribly destructive in limited instanced content because other people can queue their main and end up in an instance full of someone else's trash alts making it impossible to do the content AND consuming a person's entry. Also, people abuse mass alts in Halcyona to fill the West faction with alts pretty much every day.

I am ok with GS minimums but I think 6k is probably too low. It is very easy to exceed 6k gs. I have several alts over 6k but I don't Q mass alts for content because I don't want to be part of the problem. I think 8k is a good level to cut out most of the mass trash alts without eliminating new players.

The main argument I have heard against gs limits is that they prevent new players from participating in the content. I don't think this is a valid argument because there is an abundance of content that is more valuable to a new player than Halcy. New players should be focused on Hiram gear probably and there are already a lot of other places they could be working on Hiram gear without doing Halcy. The harm of opening the door to mass trash alts far outweighs the benefit of allowing ungeared new players to enter. Also, it is not hard to get to 8k gs on a main character.

Another way to fix the problem would be to have a GM monitor Halcy for alt abuses and issue long duration halcy bans for people who are abusing alts in Halcy. I would log people's ban history so you can detect repeat offenders. A proper ban and track system could be more effective than a GS limit. I would also issue content bans to people who AFK the Fall of Hiram instance because it really stinks when you queue up for that and end up with 10 of someone's alts.

Forgot to mention. Kadum server.

romonster
06-26-2019, 07:59 PM
Bans are absolutely the worst idea ever. You'll end up with no one at all in your instances because punitive measures like that are utterly demotivating to everyone, even those who don't get hit with a ban.

Reyki
07-08-2019, 01:17 AM
Bans are absolutely the worst idea ever. You'll end up with no one at all in your instances because punitive measures like that are utterly demotivating to everyone, even those who don't get hit with a ban.

On the contrary, me and other ppl I know would start doing instances again if afk's get at least a week instance ban or something like that. At the moment we just don't bother if more than 50% are afk most of the time.

reddevil
07-08-2019, 03:26 AM
On the contrary, me and other ppl I know would start doing instances again if afk's get at least a week instance ban or something like that. At the moment we just don't bother if more than 50% are afk most of the time.

+

I didnt even try it because I dont want to bother with the frustrations of (alt) afks or even getting kicked on regular bases. Ive been waiting that they fixed all of it. Prolly ive been playing this game to long, personally im tired of this frustrating alt abuse in raids etc. All those years I never used my alt in a raid or afked in a raid. Its just a mentality that got worse over time. Even raid leaders are afraid to kick the alts if mains need a spot lol. I miss the old times when raids did matter and ppl worked together, at least the biggest part of the raid. Now it its more visa versa biggest part doesnt do anything which tries to leech and small part does all the work. Its not only the game mechanics but also the mentality of the players that got worse..

Noxmisback
07-12-2019, 04:30 AM
They have 0 afk in KR : https://youtu.be/Lp4hPYb6OYw?t=41

Reyki
07-14-2019, 09:22 AM
They have 0 afk in KR : https://youtu.be/Lp4hPYb6OYw?t=41

Korean culture is way different than the egocentric people in Europe. Lots of things work for them that won't work here because lots of people have no morals.

Noxmisback
07-14-2019, 09:47 AM
Korean culture is way different than the egocentric people in Europe. Lots of things work for them that won't work here because lots of people have no morals.

They had same problem as us in 5.0-> 5.5

In 5.6 they got a vote kick option 50% of the player who said "yes" make the kick happen

Reya Ezekiel
07-14-2019, 02:08 PM
GS requirement is irrelevant and useless:
...
- Votekick + autokick for afkers and leechers

And a votekick feature could be exploited by people who queue an instance with enough alts.

Imagine someone queuing fall of hiram with a party of 10, then you won't be able to get an absolute majority vote of 11 to get him kicked. But that guy -in turn- will only need one random stranger to click "kick" and do the same on all his alts to remove someone from an instance.

The amount of abuse this enables is more than making up for all the good this plan would do.

Edit: I think the idea of an automated AFK-kick IN COMBINATION with a "report macro" or "report AFK-tag bypassing" button would be a lot more effective. And punishment for repeated offense should be an increasingly longer lock-out from ALL dungeons and instances, as an active deterrent - and in case of habitual transgression the people in question should get temp bans of likewise increasing duration.

kunoi
07-17-2019, 03:11 AM
Server:Tarsis
Instance: Golden Plains Battle

A 6000 gearscore entry would be better so many afk's. Im 7.6k gs atm and still need better gear to kill anyone. Also other nations q their alts, last instance i did was 7 people playing and rest where either afk or alts of other players. The fact that player nations/pirates are generaly are people who have reached endgame gear makes the entire instance unbalanced, players under 10k gear score are basicaly feeding them points.

AweEzi
07-17-2019, 03:44 AM
Server: Ezi
Instances: Golden Plains Battle
Red Dragon’s Keep
The Fall of Hiram City

I posted this elsewhere but repeating it here so it doesnt get missed.

I recognise those that regularly afk from Ezi and a lot of them are high gs mains from the top pvp guilds and their alts are not there. They do the same in all 3 instances. There attitude is that they can get something for nothing, so why not. Sometimes they arent even afk, they will just stand there doing zero and talk throughout the whole thing. Raising gs is not the solution . A kick system might improve it slightly but those afkers would then do the bare minimum that they think they can get away with.

A name and shame list would be a far better solution but isnt allowed on these forums. Maybe if gamingo would set up the facility for us to provide names and servers of the regular offenders (without the hassle of raising tickets) , then gms could randomly check those that are named the most. Add an increasing penalty like ban from all instances for a week going upwards..and hey presto the afks would start to get active (or not join)

I will add that a 6k gs for halcy wouldnt affect me but Ill point out that the top end pvpers already have other arenas for them. Given that pvp is a significant part of this game, Halcy should remain so everyone gets to have some pvp practise and fun, not just the hardcore.