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Cosmo
05-22-2020, 12:01 PM
This is the official thread for the Garden of the Gods update for ArcheAge: Unchained. If you’re looking to give feedback for ArcheAge Legacy please click here (http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?360091-Garden-of-the-Gods-Official-Feedback-Thread&p=2786648#post2786648)!

Please feel free to input all of your constructive feedback here for the update of the Garden of the Gods update here.

Be aware that we may not respond as we are gauging the feedback and sentiment as a whole and if you have any questions, they can be asked in the Official ArcheAge Discord (https://discord.com/invite/archeageunchained). Thank you all!

Arteminis
05-22-2020, 12:04 PM
After reading the official Discord since yesterday night and seeing what the statement of the publisher was, we can come to the conclusion that ArcheAge:Unchained is not sustainable for gamigo as it is. That is why we are seeing these Garden DLC Packages that should relief the missing revenue that AAU is not generating as it should. We saw the official survey about what is considered p2w and what is not because the publisher are desperate to make money from running the game, because the model how AAU is being released right now is not working.

Yes, nobody wants to pay extra for content that other regions like Korea/Japan/Legacy get as an update. But to be honest: We are more upset about it not being communicated transparently from the get go. That the community had to find out about it in the Glyph Store, instead of it being announced beforehand and instead being said: "We can not keep running the game on a one time 25€ purchase and need to change the model."
Other regions have other ways to generate money for the company: They can buy Labor Rechargers for small payment, or have convenience items like Mailbox, Warehouse, Gliders etc. in the Marketplace.
Meanwhile AAU is being run with "cosmetic items only", but it is obviously not working!

While we have to commend gamigo for really only putting cosmetics into Marketplace and Glyph Packages for now: If we look at the Legacy Garden Packages, it is full of "Hiram Infusions, Resplendent Tempers and Blossomhoof Lunagem: Dash" etc. that is not cosmetic - but while they are sticking to their promises with it, it hurts the game revenue to have very expensive costumes that are not tradeable and gifting disabled to "prevent p2w".

Looking at the Wardrobe prices in the Marketplace, ranges go from 1850/2450/3750 to 5850 Credits without sale, which translates to 11,56€/15,31€/23,43€ to 36,56€ per costume (at 8000 Credits for 49,99€). That is very high for cosmetics that have no further use other than to look good. Other MOBA games or similar would use the 10€ base for most skins, and it works fine, higher prices have to be justified for, so people would feel good about "spending their money".
If Wardrobes were cheaper, don't you think a lot more people would be willing to spend money for Credits to buy the character they spend hours on a day in an MMO like ArcheAge a new costume?
Or even make them Wrapped and tradeable at this point, so people can decide themselves if they want to spend their ingame Gold on Cosmetics or Gear. I get the "but thats p2w!" part, but can you seriously say AAU is free from any P2W right now? Is tradeable costumes or housing items, convenience items like Mailbox and Warehouse the thing that will give people an edge other others in gear that they don't get by other means already? I rather them giving the publisher money, and the f2p community can have access to cosmetic items, instead of suspect websites and 3rd party sellers.

We also want stable servers and timers that are not in the middle of the night, and we are living with all of that since months. Obviously people are less ready to pay for service that they don't get.

Things like Premium ArchePass on the other hand is very good, you get a lot of fun cosmetics (like Horseheads etc) and 2 whole costumes, with some being very nice like the latest egyptian one that Korea recently got, for only 1500 Credits/10€? Me I bought that for sure, and I think a lot of people will, because it is worth the money spent and i can feel good about spending it. All Marketplace items should be like this!

The costumes/Mounts/Housing Designs/Convenience themselves that used to be in the RNG Crates were never truly p2w, the problem always was that they were not obtainable in any other way. If you have Diligence as one source to buy an Anywhere-Owl Mailbox, and can also buy it with Credits, who can complain about it being p2w?

Of course you have the few "costume collectors" that will buy them all, but that obviously is not enough to sustain the payment model, else we wouldn't have to talk about Garden DLC and content gated behind revenue generating Expansions.
We all got our 25$ worth last 8 months nobody can argue with that, but it is the way they announce this (or didn't cause the community found out first on Glyph) that it is making people angry. Also hard to compare to Legacy and KR cause the business model of the game is different. In KR you pay 10cents per Labor Recharger, can buy Wrapped Mailbox and Warehouse for 10k Credits. KR people don't mind that and it is working there, it wouldn't work for EU/NA.

The concerns I have about putting content like Garden behind a DLC is that the Hiram Infusions you get their daily is compareable to 2-3x 100 Celestial Hiram Infusions, with a small chance to proc even higher, and while you can only use it on T4 gear or higher, it will definitely create a gear gap between DLC players and non-DLC players. Saying "Tier 4 Hiram also being viable even alongside T5." is simply wrong and cannot hold. Sure you can contest against 10-20% more stats, maybe? But what if there is another Patch with 10% more? Will you be able to fight say 40-50% more stats of a DLC #4 player??? Them saying that you can compete to T5 Equipment with your current T4 is simply wrong, it is a lot more stats and not to mention the Specialization system that will add more specialized Damage and Defenses to the Equipment. That argument is flawed no matter how you look at it.

If Marketplace would sell Costume for half the Credits price they are now, and make them all Wrapped. Reimbursing anyone that spend Credits on Costumes already with what they paid over and give the amount back to them, I'm sure the Marketplace would sell better and we wouldn't need to sell new content in every major Patch in a DLC. Monetize the game right, make it affordable for the broad player base and people will be happy to buy.
Fix the problem at its core!

I don't want to answer my friends when they ask me if they should start to play Archeage with: "Yes but you need to buy the Basic Pack plus the 4 DLCs to keep up!".
Original Post: http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?360085-The-Problem-at-it-s-Core-Garden-DLC-amp-Marketplace

Turambaredolas
05-22-2020, 12:26 PM
I am following Arteminis example and simply quoting what I said in my own thread:


Dear Gamigo,
I felt the need to compile a list of reasons why the DLC paywall is a bad thing so here we go. Everyone else: please add things I forget.
Edit: In the end I made 2 categories instead of just listing what players without the DLC will be missing so it's a bit weird I called it a list in the beginning. End of Edit

(1) Breaking your word leads to distrust towards the company

You already took a stance on this one, but let me tell you again: A lot of players joined the Unchained version of Archeage because they liked the idea of a 1-time payment and that any additional payment is purely cosmetic and a show of goodwill towards the company for running the game (well). Now they feel betrayed. How can they continue to play with the fear of possible other changes?

In the very beginning - even during the hype before the Unchained servers were up - at least some players were concerned whether or not Unchained would create enough revenue to keep the game going for a long time. The business model you sold us was bound to fail and you must have known it. Sell a man a fish and he will buy once a day; sell him access to your fish and he will then eat for 'free' for a lifetime.

Since you now feel like you have to take that step there are 2 ways to interpret them and both don't look promising:
You didn't expect the inefficiency of the business model -> Players doubt your professionality.
You expected this scenario and didn't feel the need to talk to your community -> Players doubt your professionality.

The main problem here is (once again) a lack of communication.
Option 1: You could have been open about the business model from the very beginning.
Option 2: You didn't know back then and could have been open about the inefficiency of the business model and tried to find ways your community accepts. ("Hello everyone, we have bad news for you. The revenue of the game isn't high enough to keep the game going like this. We are looking for ways to keep the game going but we need to know what you would agree to. Please help us." -> Then make a poll just like you did with the question what is p2w for us.)
Option 3: A soft shock - "Hello everyone, we have bad news for you. The revenue of the game isn't high enough to keep the game going like this. We went through several options and this is the one we, as a company, agreed upon."
Option 4: A hard shock - just like you did. The worst of the 4 options I could think of.

(2) You are limiting access to high-end items and professions and put them behind a paywall

My information are based on the translated Korean patch notes for the garden update 1&2

The following things will be limited for players who don't have the DLC.

The only access to Garden Infusions - you can get a lot of them and their EXP are through the roof. You get between 3000 to 5000 exp from one and even have the ultra rare chance for 400.000 exp. This creates a nearly insurmountable gap between DLC and non-DLC players' progress speed.
The only access to Hiram T5 awakening scrolls -> the only acces to the BiS version for Hiram which is the only version that allows the new equipment specialisation which again boosts your combat abilities by a large amount.
The only access to new gathering and fishing items which are necessary for the awakening scroll of Erenor T3 and the new highest rank of potions and food items. You have to buy the DLC or you are forced to buy the ingredients from players who bought the DLC. The flowers may be gained through other means but those also involve a player who has the DLC.
The only access to a new workbench with the highest ranking alchemy and cooking items.
Access to more gold crates through additional world bosses.
Access to more evenglow lunagems (BiS gems in the wrists slot for many classes).
Access to the new Anthalon gear.
Access to new World Boss awakening material that can only be obtained in the garden.

As you can see there is a lot of end-game gear gated behind this DLC. This makes the DLC MANDATORY at a certain point of the game or it will be like playing legacy without the patron status.


I have said it in another thread and I say it here again:
You cannot put end-game content behind a paywall and expect your players to like it.
You may have DLCs that give access to new activities as long as it only has a small or no reward except for the fun you have during the activity.



So please, Gamigo, take your time and think about those points. Is this really what you want? Please have a(nother) meeting and discuss all those concerns you can see popping up right now. Please don't gate necessary items behind a DLC. Please listen to your players. And please use your official forum more often and add information here instead of just on discord.


Edit:
I totally forgot to talk about the new fresh start servers. I know very few people have asked for one but keep in mind which effects it will have.

Ricki
05-22-2020, 12:53 PM
I'm going to say here what I have said on reddit, a sentiment that has been echoed by many others who play the game.

Most players do not have an inherent problem with paying for expansions. For that matter, several games still run on a subscription base, and some, like FFXIV, function on both a subscription AND paid expansions. The need for a company to make money in order to sustain the life of an MMO is not unheard of, nor misunderstood. While this announcement feels like it was done in a rather underhanded way, the fact that the business model needs to change is not, in and of itself, problematic.

What is problematic is Gamigo's failure to manage their servers, a systemic problem from legacy that was promised not to be repeated in Unchained, a promise which drew many players back (along with the buy to play change.) While there are plenty of technical issues that require XL's involvement, there are a substantial number of issues that are directly controlled by Gamigo and where the ArcheAge: Unchained team has failed.

Gold buying and selling, while a problem in any MMO, is almost completely unaddressed in AA:U. The only time a player receives any significant consequence for buying or selling is when they make the mistake of posting images or confessing to the act, and other players taking those confessions to reddit or the discord in an effort to draw attention. The same goes for the rampant multi-accounts, where players are clearly managing far more than the "limit" of three, multi-boxing alts without repercussion or hindrance. Again, the only time anything is done about this is when players in the community go above and beyond to bring attention, and then, it's rare enough.

Even simple violations of TOS, such as blocking turn-ins, certain names, language in chat, etc, are completely unaddressed. From personal experience, when reporting such violations, the AA:U team comes back requiring that players provide video evidence and other investigatory proof before anything will be done. Gamigo has no interest in providing regular moderation and support for ArcheAge: Unchained, as has been proven by the fact they expect the regular players to do the jobs of moderators and admins, expecting us to donate our time in game rather than pay employees to do the work that should be the burden of the publisher.

Now we have a content expansion that we are asked to pay for, and the promise of fresh start servers when AA:U has been in existence for less than a year. Gamigo, after proving themselves unwilling to dedicate time and energy to sustaining ArcheAge: Unchained in the long term, is asking us to pay money again, and adding yet more servers that we can fairly anticipate will be full of the same TOS violations that already run rampant, utterly unaddressed as they have continuously been.

People will pay money if they trust a company. Gamigo, however, has betrayed our trust so thoroughly in such a short amount of time, that people find it very hard to justify giving so much as another $15 only to be met with more of the same.

mikroman
05-22-2020, 01:10 PM
New server is fine. Extra money is not a big thing as default .... BUT you sold AAU as B2P without additional costs in DLC or in expansions. You change starting conditions after we paid the game. And this is not fair. You break the contract and you lose trust. Because this"DLC" is game changer. It's not optional or "you can chose it" thing. Your old gear will stuck in lower level and it will be worthless in long term. This is not nice, Gamigo!

If you don't play your security game with big words and extreme low costs* than you are not in trouble now.
(*=weak services, near 0 customer service, extreme lags, gamebreaker old and new bugs, "Catch in" mechanism in starting from 0 server, near 0 control of alt accounts and gold/abor traders +you don't offer what you can't keep later!)

Your whole pure b2p idea was short term plan and it was mistake for you. You generated big spike in your income and you don't have chance to get static monthly income now. And you are not motivated to resolve problems and use better customer service.

Content of New "DLC": it's pointless in AAU. You secure the gear advantage of cheaters and veteran players who have huge advantages now too. 14k GS minimum? That is the target group of goldsellers now. Average active players can't reach that GS yet. This is the top100-150 players maybe. Players who used more (3 or more) accounts or "external resources". You cut your own legs. You focus to highest 1-2% instead of median.

alissima
05-22-2020, 01:40 PM
I play this game as a casual and mainly just farm on my land. Take care of animals, etc. So this "DLC" doesn't seem like it would impact me personally. I agree that extra content is not something that should always be free once you buy the base game. That being said.... I don't feel that you have any right to try to get more money out of people after handling everything else SO terribly. Why should you expect people to pay you for more content that you probably can't even get to work correctly? Our guild's news feed channel is full of nothing but apologies. Fix your problems before creating more for the players and yourselves.

Living Steel
05-22-2020, 01:56 PM
What are we buying? gear stuff and a new map with a few world bosses?

Not really clear as to what this expansion includes.

Living Steel
05-22-2020, 02:00 PM
Plenty of space still left on the other map, lol.

WitchyWoman
05-22-2020, 02:02 PM
I have no problem spending $15 for the expansion, but with the promise made of not having to spend more money when I bought this game I am disappointed. I believed the company when they said they were going to ban bots and enforce the ban on exploiters etc. I also believed the company when they promised it would not be P2W and thought I would have a chance to compete.

Sadly we have gold sellers, most of the top 100 players on a server have bought gold and now with exclusive items being released in the garden update only people who pay can advance in the game. Yes the rest of us can play, but we will not have access to the better items. IF the garden update did not offer an advantage to raise GS there would not be issues. Farming, fishing.... that is not game breaking

I also disagree with fresh start servers. If bots, exploiters, racists etc were managed there would be plenty of room to build a healthy balanced server through merges and or transfers. Additionally if you charge for transfers you would make money, but they would have to be limited to 1 every3 months or every 6 months to prevent free farming of smaller servers.

The community understands your need to make money and we are willing to make suggestions so you can achieve your financial goals while we have a nice environment to play. We want broken parts of the game fixed. We do not want a survey about what is p2w then be told we have to pay for an update. If you would have asked the community we probably would have supported it, we just don't like feeling like we are being used. You take our money and give nothing in return. There are things we want that we will pay for, but making the game more p2w than it is.... Why launch AAu in the first place... AA is alreadyp2w

Living Steel
05-22-2020, 02:12 PM
What I would really like to buy is new story lines and an update to current zones.

Maybe instance out your starting areas so they can be filled with meaning full content. Have more areas for housing. Not sure what happened to all the signpost quests but those were a fun break. Maybe a better seize system, idk, I built a seize tank to do what with? Purify?

Expansions and moving the game forward is awesome. But we might need to fix some stuff to if your looking for newer players to join.

(Worst thing about mmo's is that at the higher levels you guys try to force us into the same zones. here we all getting like a map to share and we got to buy it. Hopefully it's filled with rich enjoyable content. But yeah the rest of the game world still needs to be fixed/updated as well.

Oh and how about some nice jump spots for the cars and longboard! Lol

rewtew
05-22-2020, 02:13 PM
The feedback does not actually matter. This thread is here only to create a false feeling that they will action upon the feedback, hence reducing the frustration of the players. But I will write it because it highlights flaws in their decisions.


You have not fixed any of the core problems the old servers have and you are releasing a new one.

The new server will have alts. This is a competitive game. If alts are allowed in order to compete you are forced to use them. Most of the people who are not using them will eventually drop the game. The people who are using them will eventually burn out and drop the game. The end result is a dead server.

The new server will have the same problems with daily content that the last ones had. The game provides limited resources to players: labor, daily quests, arena entries, dungeon entries, etc... If you don't utilise these resources you loose them. Because of the competitive nature of the game each player is forced to use all of these resources before they are gone. This forces players to do activities they do not like without the option to just skip them and come back later to them if they need them. Resulting in players doing only the boring part of the game and not getting to the great parts, hence dropping the game eventually. This problem is multiplied by the allowed number of alts.

The new server will not have a mechanic so new players can join it after the release date. No matter how great you make your game some players will drop i at some point and almost no new play will join. Resulting in a dead server


Some solutions:

Change the rules for that new server to be 1 account only. It should be easy for you to create s ranking of "alt-likelihood" using some of the data you have. Each week review just the top few of that list and take action on them. This will reduce the alt usage and the violation of this rule to almost 0 and that is fine.

Remove the labor cap and keep the labor regen the same. Create quest counters for the daily quests, meaning each day for a specific daily quest that counter goes up by 1 and goes down by 1 whenever you complete the quest. Make counters for the arena and dungeon entries. (Example: each day the sparing arena counter goes +5, whenever you do a sparing arena the counter goes -1).

For the new players: let them start with counters and labor calculated from the beginning of the server so they have a way to catch up if they want to.

PuppiesAndRainbows
05-22-2020, 03:17 PM
The game was gifted to me.
Never played it before.
I didn't start playing until January so I missed out on all the problems at launch.
I'm not upset about paying for more content because it personally hasn't cost me anything yet.

I can't see spending anything on the game at this moment and here is why.
I finished the main storyline only to find out the game wasn't finished.
I remember the last quest mentioning the Garden and being dumbfounded that was all there was.

This "expansion" appears to only partly finish the game.
Half of the world map is unfinished and off-limits.
Those under construction signposts that have been around for years is not a good sign.

I would consider paying for finishing the game if there were clearly laid out goals.
Something to indicate a plan for finishing the game.

Example:
Spring 2021: expect to see World Oceans fully opened. Sail around all the continents.

Summer 2021: Unexplored Territories opened

Fall 2021: Guild Airships

Anyway, without goals and timeline, it looks like I'd be throwing money away buying this phase of development.

PS: I would also be willing to pay to turn off PvP.
For me it is really just player vs BLEEPS.
So a way to play the game without roleplaying as either sadist or a masochistic would be wonderful.
The war zones are really just riot zones.
I've no desire to play as a target or shoot others in the back.
It is annoying that so much of the game is set to no-go zones.
Exploring the oceans looks like fun, but I'm not going to reward others for being BLEEPS so I just don't go there at all.

Siddalee
05-22-2020, 03:34 PM
I don't mind paying for an expansion, although I don't think this is enough content to justify a regular expansion. It's really only useful for end-game, when generally expansions have something for everyone.

At any rate, I think Gamigo has a bad revenue acquisition model when it comes to this. You are trying to get people who are playing this version of the game explicitly to not pay money, to pay money. Generally, this does not work out. You can't wring blood from stone. Especially considering a lot of people are on unemployment right now and are budgeting their expenses. You guys remember that thing, the coronavirus? That's still happening, and the shutdown is still affecting a lot of us.

Instead, you should be focusing on ways to get people who don't mind spending money easier ways to spend their money. Right now, as someone who doesn't mind shelling out cash, you make it very difficult to justify any in-game Marketplace purchase with your exorbitant pricing.

The high-end costumes are 5850 credits, which means starting at 0, you'd have to pay $50 to get 8000 credits to buy them. $50 for a costume!! But let's say you buy the $99.99 credit option to get the most bang for your buck, you are still paying $33.93 for the costume. That's still a lot. Personally, I think costume prices should max out at around $20, which you can sometimes do if you find a credit sale AND a costume sale...but that's not really sustainable. Gamigo, I think in general you would find a lot more Marketplace activity if you just reduced costume prices.

Consider also this - if I apply a Marketplace costume to my stat costume, that's essentially a one use item. I can't get that back without destroying the stat item, so why would I continue to buy new costumes if I can't get permanent access to them? So there's an in-game mechanic reason right there to NOT buy costumes (and yes, I realize you could always swap them while not in combat, but that's actually not the point. The point is that the game makes it easier to NOT buy new costumes). You could also add the costume trunk to our achievements or the Marketplace, as eventually inventory management becomes another limiting factor in costume acquisition.

As far as fresh start, etc, I think what you should have done was included Fresh Start at the Silver level, but had a Character Expansion Slot at Gold. But I guess that ship has sailed.

PhlAi
05-22-2020, 08:02 PM
Ok - here my honest feedback to ur decission in selling updates and doing fresh start server.

--- About the Update ---
So some googling and I found official (but translated) 6.5 Patch Notes from Korea showing what's in and what's not. Summing this up to the most important things for me.

- T5 Hiram
- T3 Erenor
- T2 Erenor Cloaks
- New Area: Garden of the Gods
- There 4 Field Bosses
- 1 new World Boss (Anthalon 2.0)
- New Daily Quests
- Quests give new Hiram Infusions (Divine - 3K XP | Epic - 5k XP | Eternal - 400k XP)
- Castle Structure Updates (more dailies)
- Minor Balance Updates
- New World Boss Gear(4 Sets afaik)
- Some Hero exclusiv skills
- Mistsong Dungeon Rebalance
- Hiram Dailies weekly change (excluding Eastern Hiram and Garden of the Gods)

This is most likely what is in the update. So for activ gameplay u pay 15 bucks for exploring Gardens of the Gods, zerg down Field Bosses and Anthalon 2.0, do the same dailies every day in the new Area and maybe take a look at the rebalanced mistsong dungeon. The rest are items and speed upgrades (new infusions) for speeding up ur Hiram Item Progression.

Source (https://rellam.github.io/ArcheAge/ArcheAge-Garden/)

Just in comparison what u can get if u do not spend ur bucks on this "DLC" but spend it on other digital entertainment: Witcher 3 GOTY for 15 Bucks, Anno 1800 for 20 Bucks, one month FFXV, ... Don't want to extend this more bc this wouldn't end soon ...

So - This comparison should show that u get literally nothing for ur 15 bucks ... The price is way too high for what it offers. Even if u hand out some "free" items like those titels u get. This is - maybe - worth 5 bucks and I even do not believe this is true.

I totally agree - u want to earn money with this game. This is why u published this game and I do not criticize u for that. Servers and the people behind do cost money and u still want a plus. I agree. I also agree that if u do not earn the money by selling cosmetic items u consider selling free updates. BUT - if u wanna do so make them worth and big enough for the price u want ... Ok no ... Forget the last sentence. U sell the "DLC" to Unchained Players while Legacy Players get it for free. While Korean and Russian Players get this for free... Gamigo... Don't feel offended but I do not think this is fair in any way nor do I believe this is legal in any form. Might be wrong with legal or not but this move is by far the most and hardest pushed self destruction button u can imagine and seems like the last attempt of a big cash grab. I really feel disappointed, betrayed and angry...

But ok - let's go on...

--- Fresh Start Server ---

I really do not get why u want to open new servers. Yeah - another cash grab bc we need to buy new accounts to be able to play on those servers. But what ur DLC Sell ♥♥♥♥ shows - there is no money to set up new servers. So - only thing I can imagine: U gonna share those servers performance and the fresh started ones will have the same poor performance as the actual ones - even worse bc there r now more servers to handle by the same hardware. Which isn't my biggest problem with fresh start.

I played legacy a long time - probably 2 years on and off... I wasn't good nor am I now. But I stopped on legacy bc the game was dead. No new people arrived and the game felt empty and meaningless. Then Unchained arrived and I started fresh - did everything and had fun. Suddenly I was burned out by all those boring daily ♥♥♥♥ u gotta do to compete. Now I log in once a week and play for an hour or two - and I have the same feeling like on legacy. People stopped playing - I see a lot of empty farms, meet nearly noone outside of capital cities. The world - again - feels empty and meaningless. And u ask why u do not earn money with cosmetics. I tell u - people r bored. There is literally no content. 90% of the dungeons aren't even worth doing nor r they fun... All this daily ♥♥♥♥ isn't fun. All this zerging every day, waiting for events to start, waiting for players to arrive - isn't fun. And trading - yeah it's nice - once or twice... But doing ur 20min delivery runs every day to earn 150g ... every day ... isn't fun. So people quit - Servers are empty (almost) and u want to split them even more by adding more servers? Not only do I not know any game where they add "fresh start servers" that frequently as it happens with Archeage - no - I also do not know any game developer or publisher who wants to split their "MASSIVE Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game" player base in a way Archeage did in the past and will do in the future. Having so many fresh start attempts just shows that something isn't good about the game if u have to start over and over again. Make one server with plenty of players, with performant server hardware, rework those events to make them accessible by all those players (grim, crim, wh, aegis - instanced maybe?!) add a catch up system for new and returning players and add some open pvp events for those who want to paritcipate. Maybe then - MAYBE - u will have a game with which u can earn some money by having a fair business model. But the way u r going right now is the deepest self digged grave, the loudest "I don't care" u can give and the most ridiculous cash grab I ever experienced. And I played Bless Online...

wooglemoogle
05-22-2020, 08:23 PM
Unchained needing to adjust its monetization model is understandable, the price and presence of an expansion is not what concerns me. Neither is stuff like the fresh-start server (which imo is actually very reasonable to have atm) or continuing issues with the game as all of that is expected for the kind of game ArcheAge is.

The worrying part, which the first few posts echoed, is that this announcement was a huge blow to the core of AAU, which is trust in the publisher to uphold the "pillars" of what makes AAU different from other versions of ArcheAge.

This kind of post (http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?360092-An-Update-Regarding-Paid-Expansions-in-ArcheAge-Unchained&p=2786653&viewfull=1#post2786653) should have been put up prior to the update's announcement, not as a clean-up attempt after the damage was already done. The ArchePass, the B2P price, the cash shop, the pillars of AAU monetization, they should have had serious efforts to adjust and adapt them to AAU's condition during the 8 months it's been up.

Instead, we were greeted with sudden abandonment of one of those "pillars", that then tried to fly under the radar until players noticed and got riled. Even Trion, who did bait-and-switches both intentionally and unintentionally, never did anything as drastic as this without any notice, literally splitting off a core component of ArcheAge's future endgame.

8 months of "committing" to AAU and it suddenly all feels hollow because things were switched up at the drop of a hat. This cannot be rectified, but ArcheAge has weathered worse. But for me personally, for Gamigo to move forward with this and still have my support, there needs to be a sign that there's a plan they're going to follow, not just grasping at random straws as they come up. Because the current model is no plan, it's a sign of desperation that points to AAU just backpedaling on everything it stood for. A real commitment to the expansion model would've waited a few more months to get all 3 parts of the Garden patch together, which is far more substantial and more easily convinces players to be on-board with paid expansions.

Instead, there's just uncertainty. What is going to happen after the Garden DLC? There is no major update of this scale that'd warrant a separate DLC purchase 8 months later in our current pace following KR's roadmap. Except for the Golden Shrine dungeon, but if you're going to butcher stuff like that into its own DLC, you might as well just DLC every patch.

There is clearly no plan to bolster revenue via the ArchePass either, otherwise there'd have been an investment on lowering the entry and risk for new players as other games like Black Desert have done successfully. A week-long free trial is archaic in MMORPGs, all the big competitors from WoW, FFXIV, GW2, BDO, etc have already learned that. It's not enough time to let players gauge whether they want to invest in the game, ESPECIALLY something like ArcheAge. (Not to mention advertising it with one of the worst trailers I've ever seen).

When the money dries up from this wave of purchases, what will Gamigo pursue next? That's really all I want to see as a player, just something that shows that Gamigo really will actually be able to keep the lights on. Because all I see here is that when they reached a breaking point, they chose the route with the bare minimum of effort rather than what's best for the game/players/long-term revenue. And all I see in the future is a gradual butchering of the game after so much was done to build it back up.

Angaels
05-22-2020, 09:02 PM
More gear grind is not more content... Fix the stuff that's broken, and handle the exploits.. If the new content was actually content and not grind only then it would be worth considering.. But with exploits abound a new server is not the answer until you take responsibility for the current situation.

Adelphi
05-23-2020, 03:56 AM
some extremely good points made here, i'm sad over this and it has nothing to do with charging for dlc or the packs, i think i'm more disturbed by the fresh start server, that's something i cant join i have 3 accounts 6 toons which i play all of them bought credits/costumes for all of them and enjoy playing them, yes casual low gs but i enjoy the house/trade/farming in game, yes i have so far missed a lot of the game but there was always hope that i would eventually do GS on my healer toon, the last few months because of covid i was ill so just coasting along but thought eventually that would be 100% possible for me, but now i don't think so, less i can buy another account that would go against tos right for fresh start, then i think why do we need a fresh start server, they cant run the servers we have now without serious lag at certain times and is there enough players for that even are u not gonna get the same issues, i'm at the point i don't want to buy anything more because there is lil to no investment in the player base at all and no game can function like that.

They said about adding an extra char slot but these things should be decided before u put things up for sale, i'm not buying any packs without knowing, why should any1, there is no benefit to buy the packs not for me and i'm a person that buys prem archepass tickets for all my toons lel

the only thing to swing this for me is if free char slots on say Archeum packs and then i'll buy 3 so i can then experience fresh start on those toons right because i refused to delete my other toons that i already invested considerable money in cosmetics. Or allowed to buy another account for the fresh start server.

yes i'm very undecided i play this game for fun not to make money or have the highest GS.

Justnotmyname
05-23-2020, 01:50 PM
Well Gamigo did not communicate with us at all and this is the shtstorm they deserve... The sad part is they will not learn from that and just go ahead doing nothing.https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690345542550945854/713395277322518609/this-is-fine.png

MortalChip
05-24-2020, 01:30 AM
As your team member said in official discord:
22156

Please find a way to separate access to new fresh start server from buying expansive DLC, or explain why we should pay more for that.

You creating kind of VIP server only for people that pay more, for what? Why this fresh start server should cost more? please justify your decision.

From ArcheAge: Unchained – Interview with Merv Lee Kwai (https://mmohuts.com/news/archeage-unchained-interview-merv-lee-kwai/):
22157
I can understand that you should sell something to keep work, but selling new server access that you open for lure old players and same new?! really?
Make it a most affordable as you can, same of this new/old clients may keep playing there and offer DLC later.

Choisy
05-24-2020, 03:01 AM
First off, payed expansions is just common sense with a B2P model.
Look at the bigger titles, what they cost and stop asking for free stuff.
It makes this community look greedy as fack and they wont take us serious.

Second, the archepass is really good as a catch up mechanism, there is a progression curve in late game that steeps up the proces of GS++.
For pure pvp (arena's, GvG etc) you should always know ur in for a steep grind, for pvpve u get relevant faster to help damagedeal.
And u dont need that much GS to denie.

Last but not least, I see no point for fresh start servers, we take in new players!
I see new players with lower scores in our 'bigger' guilds all the time.
It's easier to boost these players from existing servers then new servers were we have to really focus on our progression.
Hardcore pvp isn't going to come back a third time.
True hardcore never came back to archeage after innitial launch... it's just what it is.
If u dont know what I mean, u haven't been a hardcore player but a peon follower thinking he is hardcore... .
I might be alone in this, but that would be the end of AA(:U) for me.
I wont try chargeback cause I have had my fun with this game.
But those who try, will have a solid argument to win that.

That's my two cents.

TL;DR

Payed expansions: obviously I agree cause no P2W/Sub
Archepass: can be a usefull catch up mechanic
New servers: dont finally destroy this game
Nobody is letting them get recked from behind a third time.

internaut
05-24-2020, 02:31 PM
22158

Impetuz
05-25-2020, 12:41 PM
Well
As most allready wrote, i do agree that it is perfectly fine with paied expansions, but the fact just is, as allready saied, theres simply not enough to call that an expansion, even tho XL claim it was 6 years in the making (the usual time a complete AAA MMO is created from scratch), it just isnt.
Most B2P games with no P2W elements usualy uses this model, nothing new, perfectly fine, but it just isnt an expansion.
Allso i could justify paying the small amount, even if it isnt an expansion.. BUT!

And here is the BUT.

Libary
Lib, laggy as hell when it was open, fix was to close it ?, this game aint new, it never lagged like that in Legacy when i played there, so it should have ben fixed by now.
This is content, just lost
In contrast, you want us to pay to get more content, but yet you take some of the midway content away?
Here would be where i put in the idea to make lib an instance server, but we will get back to that further down.
Since you charge 15 euro for this new DLC, would that mean i shoud have 10 euro back for my missing libary ?

Halcyona
Lag fest, when the instance server is up.
Again, your running an older game, not reinventing the wheel, this shoud work by now!

Instance server
How, just how can it be down so often.

Fresh Server
Noone asked for this, and why would they ?, most server are bleeding players to the point where you can have so much land for yourself you could claim yourself as king of your own zone.
Why would you give people YET another reason to scatter
Theres a LONG waittime to get into the Drillcamp PVP area, and it only needs a few players, same goes for most other instance PVP stuff.



Gamigo, we would like problems to be fixed, not an expansion, not a new server, not loose more players due to a paywall.
Price your costumes right, and put more of it in the marketplace, ask your Trionwolds remaining staff how to price it, they know from RIFT. People will buy, but not for any price, even in RIFT they had costumes with basic looks in, and they did sell.
And put some useful stuff in the archepass premium.

You are heading down the same well you fished this game up from, stop dumping it down there again, you know where it leads.

Vi Neomir
05-28-2020, 11:02 AM
I dont have a problem with paying for expansions or DLC. I am more than happy to pay for content if it allows the owners of the game to continue to develop and maintain the game. I done mind paying for cosmetics if they are good and anything else if its useful and not P2W. Hell, I would even pay to change the server times so the current content that I have already paid for is at a reasonable time in the evening!!

SevenGor
05-28-2020, 12:11 PM
So, In my opinion, paying with real money should not be the only way to access the DLC, because we have not get any "real update" since the launch, I know it is a huge update but that is what we all should be getting all this time. I have a suggestion on making money and keeping your promise at the same time.

Make it available on the Diligence Shop!!!
We all going to update the game and getting the map, we just cannot access it without the DLC am I right? Just put whatever is letting us to access the new map on the diligence shop. Like a ticket, "using this ticket grant you the ability to access Garden of the Gods permanently." Something like that, and people who want to spend their diligence on other goods can pay for the DLC, this seems like a win-win for me.

Clovered87
05-28-2020, 10:14 PM
So, In my opinion, paying with real money should not be the only way to access the DLC, because we have not get any "real update" since the launch, I know it is a huge update but that is what we all should be getting all this time. I have a suggestion on making money and keeping your promise at the same time.

Make it available on the Diligence Shop!!!
We all going to update the game and getting the map, we just cannot access it without the DLC am I right? Just put whatever is letting us to access the new map on the diligence shop. Like a ticket, "using this ticket grant you the ability to access Garden of the Gods permanently." Something like that, and people who want to spend their diligence on other goods can pay for the DLC, this seems like a win-win for me.

It is not beneficial for everyone because the diligence coins can be obtained without the need to buy anything for real money in the game and it is what the company is needing so they put it up for sale.

mikroman
05-30-2020, 05:55 AM
"Fix" the prices of bunny mounts or make them untradeables!
140 dilligence coins vs "fastest upgraded" mount speed+ full armor set and tradeable is totally broken. AND this mounts can "cheat" in hereafter rebellions with gate!
If you want to keep it tradeable make it expensive (400 is the default 11,5m/s mount without armor. Give use bunny vs 600 coins!) or remove this mounts from shop! You made it "mandatory". Do you want to see terrifying horde of giant rabbits everywhere? :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHbzSif78qQ

Turambaredolas
05-30-2020, 12:16 PM
"Fix" the prices of bunny mounts or make them untradeables!
140 dilligence coins vs "fastest upgraded" mount speed+ full armor set and tradeable is totally broken. AND this mounts can "cheat" in hereafter rebellions with gate!
If you want to keep it tradeable make it expensive (400 is the default 11,5m/s mount without armor. Give use bunny vs 600 coins!) or remove this mounts from shop! You made it "mandatory". Do you want to see terrifying horde of giant rabbits everywhere? :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHbzSif78qQ

Wouldn't it be even worse if they did that? Players who got it before your change would have an advantage over those who didn't.

mikroman
05-30-2020, 12:34 PM
Wouldn't it be even worse if they did that? Players who got it before your change would have an advantage over those who didn't.

If Gamigo uses same shop in every AAU server this is the only solution. New server need balanced environment. If new server can use different "checklist" than remove this item temporally or change the prices! +pices are not static. If you bought it/them you had luck. That was "seasonal" price. :)
Old content is not reason to keep broken things and ignoring balance changes.

Selling "high end" content in any low effort shop is bad thing. If we want better items/mounts/pets use in game system instead of "full kit" shop products! Sell "designs" and let us craft it with in game resources (example rabbit design +anygallant anima = Giant monster rabbit mount). But this is change in game and it's not simple "check in - check out" list in shop. Gamigo will never change it and I don't think it will ask it from XLGames.

Turambaredolas
05-30-2020, 01:37 PM
You're right. I just didn't realize you were talking about the FS server and not the DLC in general.

dumbo
06-07-2020, 03:50 AM
Is FS going to have character name reservation? Or is it just make em and hope for the best at Launch ?

Rollingstone
06-10-2020, 04:14 PM
Make labor pools COMPLETELY seperate for servers. You can regen your labor via sleep. 250 lp pyjama, 150 lp bed, 50 lp kitty onesie= 450lp per character per day. You can create x2 character beside Fresh Start. So it means +900 lp per day. In your web site https://www.trionworlds.com/archeage/en/2020/06/10/archeage-unchained-important-update-about-the-fresh-start-servers/ , you said

Auction House and Arenas will have their own cluster for the Fresh Start servers in order to prevent unfair matchups with older servers
In order to achieve this , you also have to apply this. There is a reason why fresh start server need new accounts.

Barney
06-11-2020, 02:31 AM
When WoW came out with its first expansion to go through the Dark Portal, I bought it as I wanted to explore the new area and carry on the adventure. Those that didn't stayed in vanilla. Don't see any difference here.

FelixGame
06-11-2020, 08:24 AM
why can't I go into the garden? https://ibb.co/d246X81
I bought and activated DLC on May 24 !!!

Schaapjeblaat
06-12-2020, 08:44 AM
To me, losing a whole reward level on death in the garden is no fun. Maybe korean players like that sort of thing but i think
most european players do not really like that mechanic. It is just like putting in six gems and then having all of them blow
up on trying the seventh: no fun!

Consider asking XL to change this, please.

areallycoolusername
06-15-2020, 06:16 AM
My opinions.
*Remove the loss of level+points and just have point loss on death. (Maybe have level+point only on the last levels?)
*Lower the density of mobs a little, maybe by making some of them Neutral-until-attacked?
*Make tanks able to function in Garden, because currently they completely rely on a team- which is a bit unfair.

As far as I heard the Korean servers have so that you lose points but not also a level upon death, so it is strange that we cannot have this as well. May be hearsay, though.

YoEx
06-18-2020, 01:50 AM
Make guild chat and guild roster awailable in garden.
Decrease, if not take out the loss of points when u die, "i lost 8000 points form one death"
Mobs are way to strong for most of the players and since u share points with party members, is hard to find a party to grind the lvl's u need
Story quests is imposible for 90% of the players to complete and a lot of classes! Story should be awailable to everyone
We need a merge since most of the servers are empty now! Last night at siege we had 40 pple and at least 10 of them where undergeared for siege
Change times already! why are 80% of main events and boss spawns in the midle of the night for europeans?

Newphonewhodis
06-18-2020, 04:32 AM
Not sure if this actually matters seeing as gamigo and XL ignored our forum posts about timers but here is my feedback for garden anyway... Change the NA and EU boss times like we've been asking for the last 3-4 months. Since Cosmo's last comment (on discord) about XL not wanting to so many players on both NA and EU have quit. The players that planned to come back for garden havent bothered because its an AFK sim you pay 15$ for with little to no PVP or content. With new world and WoW expansion coming out soon.. if gamigo doesnt step up and pressure XL games, archeage will once again be a ghost town.

Lastingk
06-21-2020, 03:52 PM
Its been almost two weeks and we are getting more familiar with the new DLC. Obviously, the mechanics are targeted to higher gear score players that aims to achieve new end game gear. It also offers a softcore mode where you can advance to level 6 without PVP worry and 12 in PVP mode.

While everything makes sense, I really want to point out why was it so necessary for Unchained players to buy this content that offers higher gear while Legacy had this DLC for free. By all means, I do realize since it is buy-2-play, most players don't feel the need to spend more money on the game. Which, dramatically lowers the profit of company thus as they stated, they needed DLC to be bought in order to survive these "tough" times.

However, buying this DLC is not rewarding, it is almost a brainless move if you are not 14k gs. Legacy servers have it for free, and Unchained players pay the same price tag as they did when they bought the game just to play this DLC which hates the player and makes the player want to quit the game.

Literally, in one case, you can buy the whole game with great rewarding mechanics such as ArchePass. At the other, you buy a DLC that offers no new rewarding mechanics compared to Legacy servers.

I'm fully aware this is just a scrub talk. I am merely giving voice to this case as a not-so-high gear scored player after I realized there are a lot like me in the server.

tl;dr:

I am all okay to supporting the company, I can spend money if it's for the health of the game, yet I do believe there should be rewarding mechanics for people who spend money on the DLC, not just some pre-order titles or credits. I feel like a total fool for spending money and being left empty-handed.

youngcat
06-22-2020, 03:02 AM
Not only are the attackspeed and damage values of greataxes bugged this patc, but also specialization doesnt apply at all!
Oh! And there is also no mobs in the garden that are weak to crushing

Swarm42
06-28-2020, 06:11 PM
I was hoping to buy the new packs through the official website, but I noticed a significant price discrepancy between the official site and Steam versions.

$8 more to buy the Garden of the Gods Gold Pack.
$27 more to buy the Garden of the Gods Archeum Pack?!

I was hoping to buy the Archeum Pack, but I don't want to buy through Steam, and I don't want to pay $87 instead of $60. Is there a reason for this price discrepancy? It looks like whoever manages the Steam page accidentally dropped the item price for the Archeum Pack and put too high a discount on the Gold Pack. Would it be possible to have this deal available through the official site? I was really looking forward to playing again, but not with this current situation :(

Dunkelherz
06-29-2020, 03:37 PM
FIX THE EVENT TIMERS XL games pls give a feedback to gamigo , you destroying commuinitys and guilds with this , how the heck can that be that we wait for now 9 + month to get event timers back how they was befor pls do that i have the nose full TBH go change event timers many peoples wanna have back event fun with their guild mates pls

Zero Kelvin
07-01-2020, 03:15 AM
I'm sure this has been said before, but I just want to point out a few things. If you, Gamigo, are wondering why you're not making as much money as you've projected..

1. Cost of Items too high
You've got a lot of costumes and such on the market that, IMO, are simply just too high a price.
Add to that the inflexibility to take parts of costumes to mix/match for particular looks doesn't make things better IMO.

2. In-game Market system terrible
Compare what Guild Wars 2 has versus what we're dealing with here in this game, and the experience is utterly disappointing. i.e. preview of items on a character are so small, and sometimes can't see.

3. Degrading Game Performance (Servers worse..)
Ever since you've moved to Atlanta, the servers are generating frequent lag spikes, sometimes major spikes, and on occasion spikes(for those of us with higher ping) that disconnect us/crashes the game client.

4. Contributing Factors of Population Decline

4.1 Creating a Fresh Start Server

4.2 Release of the SEA server (removed a lot of APAC players from the game)

4.3 Garden Game Design

4.3.1 No communication/identification with guild/family members inside or outside of the garden
This fragments players and makes it harder to coordinate activities in any part of the game.

4.3.2 The Garden should NEVER have been an 'instance'. It should have been a continuing zone of the game. It doesn't need to be an instance.

4.3.3 Mob strength and death penalty way too high to make it really fun or worth-while to do much in the garden, outside daily boss mobs.

4.3.4 Design promotes people going AFK to get ranks rather than play the content. Due in part to above points.

----

You want to make money with this game. Well, the above IMO, are things that aren't doing you any favors, among other reasons...

Islyn
07-08-2020, 01:32 AM
I don't mind paying for an expansion, although I don't think this is enough content to justify a regular expansion. It's really only useful for end-game, when generally expansions have something for everyone.

At any rate, I think Gamigo has a bad revenue acquisition model when it comes to this. You are trying to get people who are playing this version of the game explicitly to not pay money, to pay money. Generally, this does not work out. You can't wring blood from stone. Especially considering a lot of people are on unemployment right now and are budgeting their expenses. You guys remember that thing, the coronavirus? That's still happening, and the shutdown is still affecting a lot of us.

Instead, you should be focusing on ways to get people who don't mind spending money easier ways to spend their money. Right now, as someone who doesn't mind shelling out cash, you make it very difficult to justify any in-game Marketplace purchase with your exorbitant pricing.

The high-end costumes are 5850 credits, which means starting at 0, you'd have to pay $50 to get 8000 credits to buy them. $50 for a costume!! But let's say you buy the $99.99 credit option to get the most bang for your buck, you are still paying $33.93 for the costume. That's still a lot. Personally, I think costume prices should max out at around $20, which you can sometimes do if you find a credit sale AND a costume sale...but that's not really sustainable. Gamigo, I think in general you would find a lot more Marketplace activity if you just reduced costume prices.

Consider also this - if I apply a Marketplace costume to my stat costume, that's essentially a one use item. I can't get that back without destroying the stat item, so why would I continue to buy new costumes if I can't get permanent access to them? So there's an in-game mechanic reason right there to NOT buy costumes (and yes, I realize you could always swap them while not in combat, but that's actually not the point. The point is that the game makes it easier to NOT buy new costumes). You could also add the costume trunk to our achievements or the Marketplace, as eventually inventory management becomes another limiting factor in costume acquisition.

As far as fresh start, etc, I think what you should have done was included Fresh Start at the Silver level, but had a Character Expansion Slot at Gold. But I guess that ship has sailed.

100% agree! Also more FURNISHINGS! Everything cosmetic in the cash shop is just too expensive and not worth it. I mean Buying the silver DLC gave me 500 credits. May as well give 0 since 500 gets you nothing worth having. Not even a stupid salon ticket.

miby
11-28-2020, 08:27 AM
Hallo, ich habe garden of the gods gekauft und Installiert, aber irgenwie bin ich unter Freetrial rein gekommen keine ahnung wie...
jetzt kann ich nicht normal spielen und bekomme keine Labor Punkte.

Am anfang hatte ich 1500 Credits konnte aber nichts von shop kaufen können sicher wegen Freetrial, hab ein Ticket geschrieben und ein GM name Shaz hat mir geschrieben:
''Wir haben Ihnen 49 Credits gutgeschrieben damit Sie die Gebundene Gunst Nuis im Credit-Shop kaufen können. Dadurch, wird euer Account freigeschaltet um Arbeitspunkte wieder normal zu regenerieren.'' danach hatte ich 0 Credits und mein Problem mit der Freetrial ist immer noch da.

Kann mir jemand helfen ?

account name Ciban

miby
11-28-2020, 08:35 AM
Hallo, ich habe garden of the gods gekauft und Installiert, aber irgendwie bin ich unter Freetrial rein gekommen keine ahnung wie...
jetzt kann ich nicht normal spielen und bekomme keine Labor Punkte.

Am anfang hatte ich 1500 Credits konnte aber nichts von shop kaufen können sicher wegen Freetrial, hab ein Ticket geschrieben und ein GM name Shaz hat mir geschrieben:
''Wir haben Ihnen 49 Credits gutgeschrieben damit Sie die Gebundene Gunst Nuis im Credit-Shop kaufen können. Dadurch, wird euer Account freigeschaltet um Arbeitspunkte wieder normal zu regenerieren.'' danach hatte ich 0 Credits und mein Problem mit der Freetrial ist immer noch da.

Kann mir jemand helfen ?

account name Ciban