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Craziness
04-23-2014, 06:35 AM
So after having seen a few streams I started wondering it's possible to make a rogue/assassin build. I would like to hear if you guys have any idea for classes that might match well for a rogue/assassin build.

Personally I'm thinking of something like This (http://arche-base.com/builds/view/1374-Spy_build)

So what do you guys think about that one and what would you suggest as a rogue/assassin build

RocketJosh
04-23-2014, 06:59 AM
I could be 100% wrong, but I thought you had to learn all passives from top to bottom to get the stronger bottom rated one. Seems this was on the livestream, but I could be wrong.....

Bakemono
04-23-2014, 06:59 AM
The first three passives you have in calling are completely useless, and it would be better to take instantaneous impact or quick-shot over the first passive; for sure. Overall consider your build again, cause this build has no survivability, no burst ability, and no maneuverability.

Bakemono
04-23-2014, 07:02 AM
I could be 100% wrong, but I thought you had to learn all passives from top to bottom to get the stronger bottom rated one. Seems this was on the livestream, but I could be wrong.....

You are wrong; the live-stream with scapes and firecait exclaimed that you only need 7 skill points in 1 single tree in order to get the strongest passives. I feel bad for the players who only are able to watch live-streamers, and must insinuate on certain things. Closed beta can't come fast enough; then, we'll see how much water all these bad builds people keep posting on forums hold.

Craziness
04-23-2014, 07:09 AM
Overall consider your build again, cause this build has no survivability, no burst ability, and no maneuverability.

I just wanted to come with an idea for a melee assassin build (fast damage). Anyway thanks for your feedback. However could you possibly post a more... efficient build for a melee assassin/DPS

Bakemono
04-23-2014, 07:28 AM
I just wanted to come with an idea for a melee assassin build (fast damage). Anyway thanks for your feedback. However could you possibly post a more... efficient build for a melee assassin/DPS


I can't think of an efficient build for battlerage/shadowplay/Archery, sorry.

Vee
04-23-2014, 08:07 AM
Craziness, I'm wanting to play a Rogue/Assassin class aswell. Hoping to find something viable :)

rodde
04-23-2014, 08:50 AM
the rogue, also called politician calling/combat/will is the most burstly melee build. if assassin means melee, then this is the build^^

rodde
04-23-2014, 08:51 AM
personally i picked the will tree instead of the archery tree because of how bursty mages are in this game

Svyndari
04-23-2014, 08:56 AM
Hopefully by beta more players will be able to get a better feel of how the fluidness of said builds will work out. It's one thing to work out in theory as to what the best DPS/heal/tank spec could possibly be, however, you may find that in game the builds are clunky. We can only wait and see! I can't wait to mess around with the classes myself. :)

iceman
04-24-2014, 06:58 AM
the rogue, also called politician calling/combat/will is the most burstly melee build. if assassin means melee, then this is the build^^

politician is as bursty as any other combat/calling user... spy got higher burst potential (bleed + hunters mark). It's not burst what makes polititian so good...

Yagato
04-24-2014, 07:10 AM
Okay, for a rouge or assassin you want stealthy and bursty gameplay. So I think this should be the way to go with.
http://arche-base.com/builds/view/1374-Spy_build#8.1.6/hmkva38v7aTK

You want to build deathwish stacks and burst with perforation from behind the target in stealth or such. You should also look at removing Bolt of heaven if it doesn't turn out to be too good, cause it aoe's and that's not really something you want. I don't know if it''s possible to cancel the skill effect. Look at taking the other gap closer in Combat tree.

rodde
04-24-2014, 08:07 AM
politician is as bursty as any other combat/calling user... spy got higher burst potential (bleed + hunters mark). It's not burst what makes politician so good...

now now^^ politician is used to counter those pesky mages by reducing tons of the damage they receive. BUT when the spy has got higher damage potencial, the politician has higher BURST potential.
please make the difference between overall damage and burst then come back to speak with me^^

rodde
04-24-2014, 08:08 AM
of course, if you want an explanation , i can give you one. but i wil let you figure that yourself first

iceman
04-25-2014, 01:23 AM
Srsly You have no clue what You are talking. Spy got all of the damage skills of the Politician + hunters mark and bleed and survival instinct from archery tree. Will tree gives no extra damage for politician, so how is it possible to make higher burst by him?
Spy got highest damage from melees but is very fragile, that makes politician better pick. Extra blink + cc break + sleep/buffsteal +magic resist vs some extra damage.

Archaous
04-25-2014, 03:35 AM
Your original build was nice but you didn't have any cc break and had some useless abilities (notably bone cage :) ) Anyway i too want to play a rogue assassin type and did alot of research & questioning about such a build and this is basically what is the best for this Click Here (http://arche-base.com/builds/view/1693-Single_Target_Assassin#1.8.6/ttSvSmkvUaaK)

I altered your proposed build a bit:

1) now you have some CC break which is necessary in this game.
2) Took out the ranged attacks but kept archery for the hunter mark
3) This build focuses on stun locking a single target

The combo would go as such. DW = Death Wish stacks
:Survival instinct - > Stealth -> Hunters Mark (2 DW) -> Plunge (knocked down) -> Hardcut (14 DW) -> Ankle(16 DW) -> Triple Blow (Knocked Down) -> Multistrike (24 DW) -> Shadowstep -> Perforation: does 108xDW and 750% if behind target.(This could hit up to 15-20k if full combo done right and vary between stats) HOWEVER I don't know if there's a cap on DW stacks you can have on someone.

After this you still have Wirlwind, Bolt of Heaven, and Phantom Blow still up.

However all this is going off alpha abilities/stats so this could change. but as of right now this is totally viable. The only downside is its super strong single target and incredibly weak with AoE. But assassins are never about the AoE anyway :)

Thanks for reading.

Craziness
04-25-2014, 03:49 AM
Thanks for all the feedback it really helped and it's wonderful to see how much the community here is helping each other

Archaous
04-25-2014, 04:59 AM
NP man I've been doing alot of research on class theorycrafting in this game but since I can't get into alpha its all hypothetical at this point :D. but if you have any other questions/ideas hit me up

Galatea
04-25-2014, 06:02 AM
It is possible.. but it would be so easy to kill...

rodde
04-25-2014, 06:31 AM
Srsly You have no clue what You are talking. Spy got all of the damage skills of the Politician + hunters mark and bleed and survival instinct from archery tree. Will tree gives no extra damage for politician, so how is it possible to make higher burst by him?
Spy got highest damage from melees but is very fragile, that makes politician better pick. Extra blink + cc break + sleep/buffsteal +magic resist vs some extra damage.

you play an hybrid between an archer, and a warrior=> this is a cookie cutter build. you have to invest points in the archery tree to make it viable. because the spy doesn't work by just simply running up to your target and hit because you are FFFFFFFFFFFFFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR RRRRRrr too squishy. so you have to reduce the enemy's like from afar then go in range for melee skills to do the dirty work. as i said before, this build allows for more damage over time, but does not BURST as much as a politician.

now for the politician=> the difference is that this build is high risk high reward: you have your damaging skills ALL focused on your melee skills, and when i say all, it is ALL.
now you have about 3 points in will tree, max 4: you have a shield that greatly reduces magical damage. you have the and CC skill (2 anti CCs if 4 points which is great) AND the most important thing by far in this build: a sleeping skill. this is what makes a good and a bad politician, this skill kills you or wins you a fight. this is the skill (added to a stun) that ensures you to successfully chain both of your finishers (phantom blow and perforation) from behind your target, which is the highest burst between the two builds. now tell me since you are such a great pro: how can you 100% garantee to chain both of them (burst) with your spy build?

rodde
04-25-2014, 06:38 AM
the finisher combo with rage buff stacked 15-20 times at lvl 50 with good gears if the combo is successful (sleep=>phantom blow=>stun=>perforation). of course you have to stack your death wish and your rage buff which takes some seconds:

-phantom blow: highly depends on rage stacks=> let's say about 20k
-perforation: actually it's 90 times the stacks and not 108=> 15k.

so a burst of 35k damage within a 4 seconds span, can you give me a single combo that ensures you to deal this much damage anytime the situation requires it?

Mustafonte
04-25-2014, 06:55 AM
come invisible, use plunge,perforation,phanton blow, gratz, u kill the mage (maybe u need use whirwild ,blackflip+earthquake)
http://arche-base.com/builds/view/1552-Melee_assassin

Will tree give anti cc, teleport, and slow/sleep

Remember, if the player have quick reacton, u die

rodde
04-25-2014, 07:05 AM
come invisible, use plunge,perforation,phanton blow, gratz, u kill the mage (maybe u need use whirwild ,blackflip+earthquake)
http://arche-base.com/builds/view/1552-Melee_assassin

Will tree give anti cc, teleport, and slow/sleep

Remember, if the player have quick reaction, u die

it seems as touch you have never played the game and you have no clue about what you are speaking about, so i will ask you, do you have a magical potion that grants you 20 death wish stacks whenever you want to come from behind in stealth?
my build is not one of those ♥♥♥♥ty builds where you bet your life on luck and being undetected. i built this precise build and my own combo in order to ensure a win in 1 versus 1 situation regardless of the situation, even if i am caught offguard with low health, i must be able to reverse the situation with a combo that bursts the target so fast, he won't even have time to react and use an anti-cc

Mustafonte
04-25-2014, 07:14 AM
it seems as touch you have never played the game and you have no clue about what you are speaking about, so i will ask you, do you have a magical potion that grants you 20 death wish stacks whenever you want to come from behind in stealth?
my build is not one of those ♥♥♥♥ty builds where you bet your life on luck and being undetected. i built this precise build and my own combo in order to ensure a win in 1 versus 1 situation regardless of the situation, even if i am caught offguard with low health, i must be able to reverse the situation with a combo that bursts the target so fast, he won't even have time to react and use an anti-cc

Two situations, two possibilities, different builds with different objectives.
Plunge + perforation without deathstack guarantees about 1.4K damage, beyond their debuffs, real damage this build comes from the combat tree.
And I always like to remember, if the other player have a fast reaction time, you will be counter, especially against mages (whether hermit clown or angel of death).
Obviously, that his style is more consistent, allows a greater possibility of sustain, however, who created the title of the topic says it assassin / rogue, what the history of all rpgs portrays a character that kills fast, but it is fragile

rodde
04-25-2014, 07:40 AM
can you please tell me how a perforation can garantee you 1400 damage without deathwish stacks?. oh and btw look at the sleep skill, think logically, just for 30 seconds, no need for me, and tell me again that starting with lunge, perforation is a good start

iceman
04-25-2014, 08:06 AM
you play an hybrid between an archer, and a warrior=> this is a cookie cutter build. you have to invest points in the archery tree to make it viable. because the spy doesn't work by just simply running up to your target and hit because you are FFFFFFFFFFFFFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR RRRRRrr too squishy. so you have to reduce the enemy's like from afar then go in range for melee skills to do the dirty work. as i said before, this build allows for more damage over time, but does not BURST as much as a politician.

now for the politician=> the difference is that this build is high risk high reward: you have your damaging skills ALL focused on your melee skills, and when i say all, it is ALL.
now you have about 3 points in will tree, max 4: you have a shield that greatly reduces magical damage. you have the and CC skill (2 anti CCs if 4 points which is great) AND the most important thing by far in this build: a sleeping skill. this is what makes a good and a bad politician, this skill kills you or wins you a fight. this is the skill (added to a stun) that ensures you to successfully chain both of your finishers (phantom blow and perforation) from behind your target, which is the highest burst between the two builds. now tell me since you are such a great pro: how can you 100% garantee to chain both of them (burst) with your spy build?

We are talking about raw damage and you come with all cc+cc breakers+resists.
Who is talking about risk ? Sure that Spy is very squishy, anyone said something different?
I just said that it is possible to make higher damage then politician. Noone said it is easier. You have 2 offensive trees same as on politician and extra bleed + hunters mark that you dont have on politician so perforation + phantom blow can hit harder. Pure math.

Still in my opinion politician is better overall so i don't know whay are you raging so badly.

rodde
04-25-2014, 08:29 AM
well guess no matter how many times i post, you won't get the difference between overall damage and burst damage so i will stop posting here.
have a good day

Mustafonte
04-25-2014, 08:40 AM
can you please tell me how a perforation can garantee you 1400 damage without deathwish stacks?. oh and btw look at the sleep skill, think logically, just for 30 seconds, no need for me, and tell me again that starting with lunge, perforation is a good start

IN MAGES, Plunge 200 dmg + perforation 1k~1.2 dmg (combo efect) (2h sword or katana) of course it only works in gank, mainly due to the surprise effect.

In a game with 120 classes, want to point out a class as the best is the least arrogant, further that besides the 120 classes, there are numerous possibilities for builds.
I know that most often use these melee "assassin"(politician) builds that were mentioned in this topic by experienced players, beyond them, one that is also very interesting is assasine ( change will for conjury), and as I mentioned, different builds, different classes, goals different.

rodde
04-25-2014, 08:46 AM
hmmm are you speaking about 1400 damage at lvl 50? because that's a ridiculously low amount

Mustafonte
04-25-2014, 09:09 AM
hmmm are you speaking about 1400 damage at lvl 50? because that's a ridiculously low amount

without critical, and i said, the dmg coming to the combat tree, u can give over 10k dmg in this combo, whereas the average pre 1.0 hp is 7.5k, that's more than enough to kill a mage, obviously there is no comparison with a full critical deathstack ^ ^

rodde
04-25-2014, 09:10 AM
hmm ok i guess you are right

Bakemono
04-25-2014, 09:48 AM
Politician (make sure you use two-handed saber with this build) (www.archeage-impact.de/index.php?site=talentplaner_eng&action=jumpIn&talents=011110011011000117111001001110001030110100 101000000)

Treasure Hunter (www.archeage-impact.de/index.php?site=talentplaner_eng&action=jumpIn&talents=511110100101100117011011101100001030100110 110000000)

Angel of Death (www.archeage-impact.de/index.php?site=talentplaner_eng&action=jumpIn&talents=611111000101010117001001000110000041110110 110001001)

Soldier (www.archeage-impact.de/index.php?site=talentplaner_eng&action=jumpIn&talents=011101101111100103001110001000000021111011 000100010)

Hermit (www.archeage-impact.de/index.php?site=talentplaner_eng&action=jumpIn&talents=611111000101010117001001000100000011110101 011101100)


These are by no means cookie-cutter builds, these are just to give people the general idea of how trees are suppose to be spec'd for certain classes, ya know?

rodde
04-25-2014, 12:19 PM
why are you not picking rage in your combat tree?
why do you pick energy wave when you already have a 30 sec speed buff? anyway there is no combat as a politician that lasts that long: either you kill or you die..

Bakemono
04-25-2014, 01:04 PM
why are you not picking rage in your combat tree?
why do you pick energy wave when you already have a 30 sec speed buff? anyway there is no combat as a politician that lasts that long: either you kill or you die..


Well, it's a personal preference to not take rage over other skills, passives. But as for energy wave, it's a personal favorite of mine, and i plan on using it while i level to 50; I might drop it later.

Keep in mind this is my personal build, bro. You don't have to like it. But i do know for one thing tho; out of all the other politician builds I see, I can see what the staple skills are, from there, you can add your own style of versatility to it.

rodde
04-25-2014, 02:14 PM
hmm ok i guess everyone has his vision of the politician

Hammus
04-25-2014, 07:47 PM
So a melee build class isn't viable for pvp without auramancy because of the stun removal talent?

What about battle cry in combat? "Decreases the effect duration of knockdown, stun, root, and slow for 7 seconds by 20% Enemies will take 20% longer effect durations". Can anyone clarify how it is use and why isn't it a stun removal if it isn't?

Seems like melee get pigeon holed into certain classes. I've heard Nekrage say that if a melee class doesn't have a stun removal they are dead and are less superior than range or casters. It is hard to find a streamer who is running a melee set up, the majority are range/casters in streams atm.

Also would like to hear from Scapes or anyone that knows if they are going to try to balance pvp between casters, melee, and range classes? From what I hear from Nekrage melee is the weak link in the three.

Another is dual wield vs two handers, is two hander more superior?

bleedingblak
04-25-2014, 08:12 PM
how bad / good would / could it be if (instead of archery) went with occultism?

Like the other people, you kill your target, or you die. http://arche-base.com/builds/view/1440-Assassin_1_burst#8.1.2/8mBvam2vvGr

Hammus
04-25-2014, 09:14 PM
That's witchcraft you linked. Which has incredible crowd control. But people don't want to lose out on a stun breaker.

rodde
04-26-2014, 07:12 AM
Indeed if you dont have anti cc skills you are pretty much screwed. also mastering a melee class is harder than any other build. . and the surprise factor is decisive. The anti cc skills are for those times when you fail to kill with the first surprisr combo.

Mustafonte
04-26-2014, 07:28 AM
how bad / good would / could it be if (instead of archery) went with occultism?

Like the other people, you kill your target, or you die. http://arche-base.com/builds/view/1440-Assassin_1_burst#8.1.2/8mBvam2vvGr

in assassine mudhand and dizeness is very usefull, in my opinion u can retreat multistrike and counter atack.
U can change break chains and battle cry for first and last passive of combat tree

~~~use sleep+rush, generate some deathstak in 3 s, u target going sleep, do phanton bloom+plunge+perforation, gratz u kill him

LunaNahueli
04-26-2014, 07:49 AM
I like my shadowplay-battlerage-vitalism build. Don't know if that's spy-ish at all (probably not?) but I feel I kill enemies pretty quickly and I like the healing skillz and the rez that vitalism has. And the combos shadowplay-battlerage gives. :)
I think it's called Inquisitor. Or maybe that was the other build I tried before I switched. : p

skailz
04-26-2014, 09:11 AM
http://arche-base.com/builds/generator#1.8.4/8STvtPaKCmr