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View Full Version : PvP/PK Mechanics on Southern Continents NEEDS to be changed?



AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 03:59 AM
So we were doing a trade run to South East city (we are Westerners) with some friends again last night, in Russian servers. When we hit the docks, there were some red players (enemies). Some of them started attacking one of our fellow party member, we were unable to attack them back. Because it is their continent (makes sense?) Our friend died and we just watched it. Enemy took his backpack and delivered it, free and easy profit. While we were running near to guards, so they can protect us, 3 more party members died without being able do anything else than running. After killing most of us, they spawned a Galleon. Started attacking to our trade ship with cannons. They were away from the guards, so guards couldn't protect our ship. And we cant still attack them because it is their continent.

There was only one thing left to do: Go in stealth and watch how to lose your trade ship and 50g worth stuff without being able to fight back.

Some weeks ago when Bill Murphy wanted us to shoot questions to him, so he will ask them to Scott Hartsman, i wrote a similar thing on Reddit. Let me quote it here:


Does Trion have rights to change some game mechanics? For example, safe zones. Here is my little story to summarize it:
• We are 5 Western friends, moving to East continent to deliver our quest. We are on a Catamaran (speed boat).
• One Eastern guy (enemy) jumps on to our boat.
• We cant attack him. (He needs to attack you first, because you are on their continent.)
• He starts to attack one of our friend.
• We cant attack him. (Only the player who getting attacked is able to attack.)
• He kills our friend.
• We cant attack him.
• He takes our friend's backpack and on his way to deliver it.
• We cant attack him.
• He delivers the pack, comes back and starts attacking to our other friend.
• We cant attack him.
And it goes on. If this really sounds legit for an PvP game, i got nothing to say. But if it doesn't, then it needs to be changed.
Are they able to change such systems which Koreans are happy to have but Western players thinks it sucks?

Think twice when you are going to enemy continent. You cant fight there, there is only one option for you and it is watching your own death.

/edit: Added video please see below:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPIUkBGoNlc


Official Response: http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?528-PvP-PK-Mechanics-on-Southern-Continents-NEEDS-to-be-changed&p=111080&viewfull=1#post111080

DeepFish
03-24-2014, 04:03 AM
That's sad story, but you going to go that place only to complete the quest, otherwise you better go to the Cuba island and there you can fight with your enemies for sure.

LlexX
03-24-2014, 04:05 AM
There should be group aggro/flagging.

If you go to the enemy continent's perma safe zones:

you won't be able to attack the opposite faction players
but they can freely attack you after which you will have the chance to defend yourself and fight back, but only you and not the whole party.
The guards are there to protect you in a way, but they can't deal with 20+ players turning at you.


So in short, they will just take out your party members one by one, and you can't do anything about it.

AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 04:06 AM
That's sad story, but you going to go that place only to complete the quest, otherwise you better go to the Cuba island and there you can fight with your enemies for sure.

There are multiple trading delivery spots on both continents. We didn't want to risk it with going to "Cuba" but well, that is not the point. The point is this ridiculous being unable to attack thingy.

OccipitaL
03-24-2014, 04:07 AM
This! This is why I left the game and currently not planning to play.

Majeer
03-24-2014, 04:16 AM
Most things I hear about that are "bad" I can tolerate.

But this just pretty much punishes you if you want to even explore the other continent.

The easiest solution would be you can't attack anyone on their continent, for example if someone from the east is on the western land they can't attack anyone but if a western person attacks the eastern person, the western person get flagged for PvP allowing them to be killed by people from the eastern continent.

So people who dislike PvP can ignore them and be safe, but ones who want to PvP can, but with a risk.

AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 04:22 AM
Most things I hear about that are "bad" I can tolerate.

But this just pretty much punishes you if you want to even explore the other continent.

The easiest solution would be you can't attack anyone on their continent, for example if someone from the east is on the western land they can't attack anyone but if a western person attacks the eastern person, the western person get flagged for PvP allowing them to be killed by people from the eastern continent.

So people who dislike PvP can ignore them and be safe, but ones who want to PvP can, but with a risk.

This can be a pretty solution. If you attack an enemy on your land, you get debuff which lets enemies attack you for 1 hour(?). If you don't want to do pvp, just don't touch anyone and no one will touch you either.

xReorks
03-24-2014, 04:25 AM
I hoped to have an FFA system in place and just skip those location issues,to me looks quite dumb.
Honestly i see no better challenge than just rush toward enemy continent and see how many people you can kill before get zerged off,but with such a mechanic,this won't even be challenging....
Surely guards hugging and such are already going to break down pvp even more,but still,they got to fix some pvp aspects for european audience.

Majeer
03-24-2014, 04:27 AM
I hoped to have an FFA system in place and just skip those location issues,to me looks quite dumb.
Honestly i see no better challenge than just rush toward enemy continent and see how many people you can kill before get zerged off,but with such a mechanic,this won't even be challenging....
Surely guards hugging and such are already going to break down pvp even more,but still,they got to fix some pvp aspects for european audience.

I know how you feel, going through rifts in Aion was one of the more fun experiences I had in an MMO in a long time.

AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 04:28 AM
I hoped to have an FFA system in place and just skip those location issues,to me looks quite dumb.
Honestly i see no better challenge than just rush toward enemy continent and see how many people you can kill before get zerged off,but with such a mechanic,this won't even be challenging....
Surely guards hugging and such are already going to break down pvp even more,but still,they got to fix some pvp aspects for european audience.

There are some PvP-able areas on both continents (30lv+ areas i think) you can fight freely in those locations. But they don't have any trade pack delivery NPCs though, you cant go there for trading.

These maps i talked about in first post with such mechanics are easily abuse able...

xReorks
03-24-2014, 04:33 AM
That i'm saying that PvP sensible areas shouldn't suffer from such broken mechanics,never.
It destroys the fun of pvping knowing your enemy is going to abuse 'em over and over.

@Majeer
Never played aion,i'm coming from L2 that used to be a way more an hardcore game,pvp wise. you could've just get killed from everybody,everywhere in everytime.
Only friends you had would've been your guild,if you had one,or your friends.
I'm honestly skeptical about factions system and i believe only thing holding those up is the possibility for players to make their own faction and openly war the 2 starting ones.
FFA PvP > factions based pvp. always,for me.

Klimhazzerd
03-24-2014, 04:39 AM
First your not telling the whole story your whole crew was far from the npcs which were yellow and if you were close to the npcs when you were attacked the guards would have killed them.

Majeer
03-24-2014, 04:44 AM
First your not telling the whole story your whole crew was far from the npcs which were yellow and if you were close to the npcs when you were attacked the guards would have killed them.

Even with the whole story the fact remained. They could be killed without being able to fight back. And what are a few guards going to do against 20 players if they decide to grief the trade spots?

LlexX
03-24-2014, 04:44 AM
First your not telling the whole story your whole crew was far from the npcs which were yellow and if you were close to the npcs when you were attacked the guards would have killed them.
The guards can't deal with 30+ players or so, there are just not enough guards for that.

Tourist
03-24-2014, 04:45 AM
First your not telling the whole story your whole crew was far from the npcs which were yellow and if you were close to the npcs when you were attacked the guards would have killed them.

I think the point he's trying to make and i agree, is that regardless of where you are, you should be able to flag yourself for pvp. Having to stand helplessly by and watch your team get picked off one by one is a gamekiller iimo.

Klimhazzerd
03-24-2014, 04:47 AM
Guards do not get killed by players this isnt wow and once someone attacks you they are aggroed by the guard tell he runs out of the guards range of attack which is pretty far. I wouldn't take the 1-3 gold every time to repair my equipment so one guy might be able to get 4 gold or 3 delphi coins for 1 pack when it would take at least 2 guys costing around 6 gold in equipment repairs.

LlexX
03-24-2014, 04:49 AM
The point is this ridiculous being unable to attack thingy.
It's fine that you are not able to attack enemy faction players on their continent (perma safe zones).
It's fine that they can attack you, it's their land afterall.
The problem is that you can't defend your party mates which get attacked.

AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 04:49 AM
That i'm saying that PvP sensible areas shouldn't suffer from such broken mechanics,never.
It destroys the fun of pvping knowing your enemy is going to abuse 'em over and over.

Agreed.


First your not telling the whole story your whole crew was far from the npcs which were yellow and if you were close to the npcs when you were attacked the guards would have killed them.

Guards doesn't have 9000 mile range you know. When you kill someone away from guards, you can go near guards after killing and they won't touch you.
Also it is possible to take attention of guards on one player and the rest can still attack, you still cant fight back.

The point of the whole topic is not about guards or safe zones, it is about not being able to fight back to your ENEMIES.

Think about it, you cant attack your enemy because it is their continent. But you can attack (pk) your ally.


I think the point he's trying to make and i agree, is that regardless of where you are, you should be able to flag yourself for pvp. Having to stand helplessly by and watch your team get picked off one by one is a gamekiller iimo.

This. Thank you.


It's fine that you are not able to attack enemy faction players on their continent (perma safe zones).
It's fine that they can attack you, it's their land afterall.
The problem is that you can't defend your party mates which get attacked.

Exactly. There should be a system to protect newbies on their safe land, but not like this.

AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 04:53 AM
Guards do not get killed by players this isnt wow and once someone attacks you they are aggroed by the guard

Nope if you are away from the guard's range.


guards range of attack which is pretty far

Not really.

Klimhazzerd
03-24-2014, 04:57 AM
[QUOTE=AeonAuron;5534]Agreed.



Guards doesn't have 9000 mile range you know. When you kill someone away from guards, you can go near guards after killing and they won't touch you.
Also it is possible to take attention of guards on one player and the rest can still attack, you still cant fight back.

The point of the whole topic is not about guards or safe zones, it is about not being able to fight back to your ENEMIES.

Think about it, you cant attack your enemy because it is their continent. But you can attack (pk) your ally.

This is what makes trading fun and dagerous and if your 9000 miles from the guard then you can fight back. What the the topic is complaining about is the galleon which i assumed the ran straight in to the wall which tbones it at the very back the is out of the guards range and the enemy faction attacked them without being killed by the guards. But if the guards werent in range to attack the opposing faction then he should have been able to attack them
The guards being yellow means this
THE YELLOW GUARD IS NOT WITH ANY FACTION he attacks anyone that causes conflict.
Hes just being a carebare.

Basix
03-24-2014, 05:03 AM
Well... You could do something (that i think is pretty interessting) that would be hiring a merc/neutral guy. Give him some money from the mission or so and he/they would protect you. The only problem i see is that the merc/neutral guy could eventualy trick you or something xD but i think the idea of this game is do some stuff like this too... it's not only about the quests and lvl cap, i m pretty sure someone will do some roleplay and create their own quests. xD (i will at least)
donno if you guys would agree though. ^^
just my opinion.. i don t think there is really a need of changing that kind of stuff as long as players play the way the game is suppose to be played.
(sorry if that english is bad xD)

Mavol
03-24-2014, 05:05 AM
There should be group aggro/flagging.

If you go to the enemy continent's perma safe zones:

you won't be able to attack the opposite faction players
but they can freely attack you after which you will have the chance to defend yourself and fight back, but only you and not the whole party.
The guards are there to protect you in a way, but they can't deal with 20+ players turning at you.


So in short, they will just take out your party members one by one, and you can't do anything about it.

I'd totally support Group Aggro or TEF temporary enemy flagging. Sounds like a good fix

AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 05:08 AM
This is what makes trading fun and dagerous and if your 9000 miles from the guard then you can fight back. What the the topic is complaining about is the galleon which i assumed the ran straight in to the wall which tbones it at the very back the is out of the guards range and the enemy faction attacked them without being killed by the guards. But if the guards werent in range to attack the opposing faction then he should have been able to attack them
The guards being yellow means this
THE YELLOW GUARD IS NOT WITH ANY FACTION he attacks anyone that causes conflict.
Hes just being a carebare.

If you really think losing your package without fighting makes trade fun and dangerous, good luck and have fun.

Galleon wasn't stuck on the wall or whatever. It was out of the guard's range and it was NOT out of the safe map. Your imagination and what we saw yesterday is different. Also your argument is not about the broken pvp mechanics, you are thinking that we are sad because we lost packages. If you read the posts again, maybe you can see what we are talking about.

madmaru
03-24-2014, 05:08 AM
Think twice when you are going to enemy continent. You cant fight there, there is only one option for you and it is watching your own death.

There are safe ports and unsafe ports. The port you went to was for quest turn in and not a good port to bring a tradeship to. Just as IRL there are safe and unsafe neighborhoods, same difference. Also... why didn't any of you heal your friend, if you were healing him he would have beat that enemy player soon enough... or at least gave him and your group enough time to get in guard range where you all would have been safe.
You have noone to blame but yourselves and your lack of experience in handling the situation. Please don't request changes to game mechanics you don't understand properly or know how to deal with, with the tools and abilities already at your disposal in the game.

TheUltimate3
03-24-2014, 05:09 AM
Wait, so you can go to the other continent and the players there can kill you, but you are unable to fight back? I'm certain the guy attacking can fight back, but his group[ cannot?

That...sounds like a huge design flaw.

Mavol
03-24-2014, 05:09 AM
Wait, so you can go to the other continent and the players there can kill you, but you are unable to fight back? I'm certain the guy attacking can fight back, but his group[ cannot?

That...sounds like a huge design flaw.

no you can fight back but your group/friends can't fight with you until they too are attacked. So they just kill you off one by one.

Klimhazzerd
03-24-2014, 05:10 AM
There are safe ports and unsafe ports. The port you went to was for quest turn in and not a good port to bring a tradeship to. Just as IRL there are safe and unsafe neighborhoods, same difference. Also... why didn't any of you heal your friend, if you were healing him he would have beat that enemy player soon enough... or at least gave him and your group enough time to get in guard range where you all would have been safe.
You have noone to blame but yourselves and your lack of experience in handling the situation. Please don't request changes to game mechanics you don't understand properly or know how to deal with, with the tools and abilities already at your disposal in the game.
^^^^^This 1000 times I wish that everyone could do a trade run in this forum and see how it actually worked because they are asking to fix a mech that is not in any way broken. This game has a lot of problems but this is not one of them.

Tham
03-24-2014, 05:13 AM
Free fight everywhere, that is a good fix :D

Majeer
03-24-2014, 05:13 AM
There are safe ports and unsafe ports. The port you went to was for quest turn in and not a good port to bring a tradeship to. Just as IRL there are safe and unsafe neighborhoods, same difference. Also... why didn't any of you heal your friend, if you were healing him he would have beat that enemy player soon enough... or at least gave him and your group enough time to get in guard range where you all would have been safe.
You have noone to blame but yourselves and your lack of experience in handling the situation. Please don't request changes to game mechanics you don't understand properly or know how to deal with, with the tools and abilities already at your disposal in the game.

So basically a couple of people come in and attack one of your people. Your way to deal with it is to hope you have a healer and then run?

Sounds super fun.

AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 05:14 AM
There are safe ports and unsafe ports. The port you went to was for quest turn in and not a good port to bring a tradeship to. Just as IRL there are safe and unsafe neighborhoods, same difference. Also... why didn't any of you heal your friend, if you were healing him he would have beat that enemy player soon enough... or at least gave him and your group enough time to get in guard range where you all would have been safe.
You have noone to blame but yourselves and your lack of experience in handling the situation. Please don't request changes to game mechanics you don't understand properly or know how to deal with, with the tools and abilities already at your disposal in the game.

IRL are you just watching your neighbors punch you in the face and do nothing?

We didn't have healer, even if we had, you cant heal someone good enough to deliver 20 packages. 3 enemy attacks your friend, you just heal and watch him delivering the packs, sounds fun eh? And i am telling you the same thing i said to the Klimhazzerd. I don't really care how many packages we lost. You too missing the point of this broken game system.

OccipitaL
03-24-2014, 05:15 AM
There are safe ports and unsafe ports. The port you went to was for quest turn in and not a good port to bring a tradeship to. Just as IRL there are safe and unsafe neighborhoods, same difference.
So you are saying that when you go to an unsafe neighborhood with your friends, they can beat you one by one and you guys just watch people beat your friend?

TheUltimate3
03-24-2014, 05:15 AM
no you can fight back but your group/friends can't fight with you until they too are attacked. So they just kill you off one by one.

Yeah, that sounds like a design flaw. Or at least a weird oversight.

I would think they would allow players to hire other players as guards or something to escort them in enemy territory, instead of just allowing groups of players to be picked off one by one.

That doesn't even sound fun, for anyone. Just kinda jerkholey.

Klimhazzerd
03-24-2014, 05:16 AM
Yeah but see this is where people are taking it wrong the dangerous route gives a better reward but he could just do a simple land trade with no risk but he would only get 1/3 or 2/3's of the reward. The whole point of it giving you more is because your taking the risk you are going to get pirated if you go out solo there is no question about that. Even pugs form groups for trade routes.

AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 05:20 AM
Wait, so you can go to the other continent and the players there can kill you, but you are unable to fight back? I'm certain the guy attacking can fight back, but his group[ cannot?

That...sounds like a huge design flaw.


no you can fight back but your group/friends can't fight with you until they too are attacked. So they just kill you off one by one.

Yes. And think about 5 guys attacking to 1. I am sure that 1 will kick the other 5's ♥♥♥♥♥...


So basically a couple of people come in and attack one of your people. Your way to deal with it is to hope you have a healer and then run?

Sounds super fun.

Yeah über funny...
They should try and see it themselves to see how sucks it is.


Yeah but see this is where people are taking it wrong the dangerous route gives a better reward but he could just do a simple land trade with no risk but he would only get 1/3 or 2/3's of the reward. The whole point of it giving you more is because your taking the risk you are going to get pirated if you go out solo there is no question about that. Even pugs form groups for trade routes.

I am not talking about the rewards or risk, i am talking about the broken game mechanic where you are not able to attack your enemy. if you want to take the dangerous part you can go to liberty island and the pvp system there is fine, you can attack anyone and get attacked by anyone, but this is a different case.

Klimhazzerd
03-24-2014, 05:30 AM
Yeah but the way your explaining it makes no sense. At the trade ports the guards are not red-hated orange-disliked or blue-friendly they are YELLOW neutral. When someone regardless of faction attacks someone in a guards view he will attack the person that caused conflict. The guard will not change target unless he is attacked by another person or the first target is out of range or dead. So the first person that was attacked can defend himself from the attacker.
If 5 enemy's flew in and attacked your friend the guard uses pull over and will kill them even at lvl 50 in one hit. They are unstoppable. They guard will have a refresh rate just like any other mob so it might take a moment to get to the 2nd one but what is stopping your party from attacking the mobs and running out of the guards range?? Nothing.
What is sounds like is your trying to trade at a hated port so the story that your telling other people that are actually playing archeage is compared to real life is hey im spanish in the 1700s but instad of trading at havanah i went to port royal and the brits roughed me up a little because i should have went to a neutral port like tortuga.

AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 05:39 AM
Yeah but the way your explaining it makes no sense. At the trade ports the guards are not red-hated orange-disliked or blue-friendly they are YELLOW neutral. When someone regardless of faction attacks someone in a guards view he will attack the person that caused conflict. The guard will not change target unless he is attacked by another person or the first target is out of range or dead. So the first person that was attacked can defend himself from the attacker. If 5 enemy's flew in and attacked your friend the guard uses pull over and will kill them even at lvl 50 in one hit. They are unstoppable.


I am sorry if i explained it wrong, but i never said "they attacked us near guards" and i believe this is the point you are missing. Guard's range is not large enough to see the conflict on the edge of docks. We got attacked on the edge of docks and we were far away from guards so they couldn't see and attack anyone.


but what is stopping your party from attacking the mobs and running out of the guards range?? Nothing.

I think you mean the enemies by saying "mobs". As i explained before, this stupid system is stopping us to attack any red around. No matter where the guards are.


What is sounds like is your trying to trade at a hated port so the story that your telling other people that are actually playing archeage is compared to real life is hey im spanish in the 1700s but instad of trading at havanah i went to port royal and the brits roughed me up a little because i should have went to a neutral port like tortuga.

It is not only about THIS port. Whichever port you go on enemy's continent, you will see the same story: You cant attack before they attack you.

Klimhazzerd
03-24-2014, 05:46 AM
I am sorry if i explained it wrong, but i never said "they attacked us near guards" and i believe this is the point you are missing. Guard's range is not large enough to see the conflict on the edge of docks. We got attacked on the edge of docks and we were far away from guards so they couldn't see and attack anyone.



I think you mean the enemies by saying "mobs". As i explained before, this stupid system is stopping us to attack any red around. No matter where the guards are.



It is not only about THIS port. Whichever port you go on enemy's continent, you will see the same story: You cant attack before they attack you.
Ok at the very beginning you said they are outside of the guards range well then so are you. Thats all there is to it. if your hit and the enemy is outside of the guards view it still sees the confrontation and will run to attack the enemy. If it does not they you are outside of the guards range as well and could have defended yourself.
There are multiple ports on the enemy's Continent some or orange and some are yellow you should only be trading at yellow ports since there is no bonus to trade at orange ones.

Majeer
03-24-2014, 05:52 AM
Ok at the very beginning you said they are outside of the guards range well then so are you. Thats all there is to it. if your hit and the enemy is outside of the guards view it still sees the confrontation and will run to attack the enemy. If it does not they you are outside of the guards range as well and could have defended yourself.
There are multiple ports on the enemy's Continent some or orange and some are yellow you should only be trading at yellow ports since there is no bonus to trade at orange ones.

I don't think you understood him. The area he was in was not his continent, but it also was not in guard range.

So he literally could not attack the enemies, not out of fear of the guards, but because you don't have the option to. You can not attack people on their continent if you aren't from it.

Klimhazzerd
03-24-2014, 05:55 AM
I don't think you understood him. The area he was in was not his continent, but it also was not in guard range.

So he literally could not attack the enemies, not out of fear of the guards, but because you don't have the option to. You can not attack people on their continent if you aren't from it.

the only places where you do not have the option to is the 1-30 zones in that case the guards should be orange with some npcs red and he is trading in the wrong place. So as Madmaru said it is 100% his own fault for complaining about a mech that he does not understand. Why should you be able to fight people that are under lvl 30 >.< ....

AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 05:57 AM
Being outside of the guard's range doesn't giving you the permission to attack the enemy on their land.

Majeer
03-24-2014, 05:58 AM
the only places where you do not have the option to is the 1-30 zones in that case the guards should be orange with some npcs red and he is trading in the wrong place. So as Madmaru said it is 100% his own fault for complaining about a mech that he does not understand. Why should you be able to fight people that are under lvl 30 >.< ....

It's not that he wanted to go around killing them all. Just that if they attack him he should be able to defend himself. And honestly I don't see anything wrong with that.

KeksX
03-24-2014, 06:00 AM
the only places where you do not have the option to is the 1-30 zones in that case the guards should be orange with some npcs red and he is trading in the wrong place. So as Madmaru said it is 100% his own fault for complaining about a mech that he does not understand. Why should you be able to fight people that are under lvl 30 >.< ....

Let me explain how this works: For each continent, there are 3 different trading ports. Each of them has his own trading status. For the west continent, 2 of them are in PvP zones, 1 in a PvE zone. West has only one in PvP zone and 2 in PvE Zone.

The thing you don't understand is: These ports are not "lowbie killing spots", every NPC there is yellow for you at these ports and if you go further in land, the NPCs turn red as that is a newbie area. So the ports are not part of this "lowbie protection zone", they are neutral.

However, they have the same PvP-Flagging-Mechanic as the newbie zones which interferes with trading. You HAVE to trade at those ports for different reasons:
1) War at liberty
2) Peacetime at PvP zone which destroys the prices

So this is not "your fault", this is just about design and balancing. The eastern continent has two zones they can properly trade to while the west has only 1.

AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 06:01 AM
Please forget about trade packs and doing our trade to wrong location (imho, i can go to any location i want to deliver my pack but let's just forget it)

Go with your friend to enemy continent without any trade packs. 2 reds attacking you, your friend is not able to help you/attack them.

Do you really like this system? If yes, ok then. But i don't like it and i believe it should NOT be this way.

Klimhazzerd
03-24-2014, 06:09 AM
Let me explain how this works: For each continent, there are 3 different trading ports. Each of them has his own trading status. For the west continent, 2 of them are in PvP zones, 1 in a PvE zone. West has only one in PvP zone and 2 in PvE Zone.

The thing you don't understand is: These ports are not "lowbie killing spots", every NPC there is yellow for you at these ports and if you go further in land, the NPCs turn red as that is a newbie area. So the ports are not part of this "lowbie protection zone", they are neutral.

However, they have the same PvP-Flagging-Mechanic as the newbie zones which interferes with trading. You HAVE to trade at those ports for different reasons:
1) War at liberty
2) Peacetime at PvP zone which destroys the prices

So this is not "your fault", this is just about design and balancing. The eastern continent has two zones they can properly trade to while the west has only 1.
PVE areas are lowbie killing spots though and that why you cant fight there. 31+ is always pve The only way they could fix your problem is to let 31+ have free reign on lowbies and whats the point when your already complaining that they can kill you now anyways because you need a while group of 50s to hold of the hordes of 30-s ? Seriously. Also War or peace does not effect the current price of delphi coins you get in ru atm and if thats how your trying to get money there are so many better easier safer ways.

KeksX
03-24-2014, 06:12 AM
@Klimhazzerd:

It's not a horde of 30s since 30s will not be camping that spot, it's 50s.

Also, there's an easy fix to it and LlexX already mentioned it:

If a player attacks you, your whole group gets flagged to attack him. Problem solved! :) Lowbies still protected, "abuse" stopped!

AeonAuron
03-24-2014, 06:14 AM
Klimhazzerd you are talking about really different things...

Mavol
03-24-2014, 06:27 AM
@Klimhazzerd:

It's not a horde of 30s since 30s will not be camping that spot, it's 50s.

Also, there's an easy fix to it and LlexX already mentioned it:

If a player attacks you, your whole group gets flagged to attack him. Problem solved! :) Lowbies still protected, "abuse" stopped!

Agreed, best way flag the whole group, have at it...reap what you sew

Kuro1n
03-24-2014, 07:06 AM
Yeah this mechanic is ♥♥♥♥ing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, this is the one thing I absolutely hate atm on Russian servers (well this and the short flag time when flagged for PK).

Strana
03-24-2014, 07:15 AM
First your not telling the whole story your whole crew was far from the npcs which were yellow and if you were close to the npcs when you were attacked the guards would have killed them.

I know the spot they are talking about. You park the boat next to the dock, you are 10ft or less from guards, and 20ft from trade turnins. I wouldn't call that far.

ashitakabg
03-24-2014, 09:12 AM
This! This is why I left the game and currently not planning to play.


Not playing but reading the forum ? :D you are a bad liear

OccipitaL
03-24-2014, 09:25 AM
Not playing but reading the forum ? :D you are a bad liear

It's always fun to complain about a game in its official forums. I'm having a blast so far.

aphelion
03-24-2014, 09:29 AM
@Klimhazzerd:

It's not a horde of 30s since 30s will not be camping that spot, it's 50s.

Also, there's an easy fix to it and LlexX already mentioned it:

If a player attacks you, your whole group gets flagged to attack him. Problem solved! :) Lowbies still protected, "abuse" stopped!

It does sound like the whole group being flagged when a team member being attacked is the most reasonable approach, though I'm not sure Trion has the ability to do that change without XLGames. It seems like Trion already has their hands full trying to push off a lot of the 1.0 patch, so they may need to pick and choose their battles.

Is this something that happens a lot or a rarer occurrence?

KeksX
03-24-2014, 09:31 AM
For westerners it happens a lot more as I explained, because without these 2 ports your only alternatives are Ynystere(most northern eastern zone) and Liberty Island. Easternes have 2 PvP ports in the west - so yes it happens regularly. I've done it myself to easternes trying to trade on our PvE Port, too!

aphelion
03-24-2014, 09:38 AM
Hmm, it's surprising that is hasn't been addressed if it's a common issue. Especially given how long KR version has been out.

Sorry, I haven't played the game yet so this may be a ridiculous suggestion, but would things be less of a problem if each side had 2 ports instead of one side having just one safe port to use?

Maquiame
03-24-2014, 10:02 AM
I don't see why group flagging would be so hard besides it would make the game a hell of alot more fun an exciting. Something like this as is might be a game killer in the west.

KeksX
03-24-2014, 10:04 AM
Hmm, it's surprising that is hasn't been addressed if it's a common issue. Especially given how long KR version has been out.

Sorry, I haven't played the game yet so this may be a ridiculous suggestion, but would things be less of a problem if each side had 2 ports instead of one side having just one safe port to use?

Well both have 3 and that shouldn't change, and making them safe/non-safe would interfere way too much. The Group-Flagigng would be an easy fix without changing anything else, so I think just doing that would be fine.

Halkeh
03-24-2014, 10:37 AM
This is why, I'm making all my friends to play on the western side. Anyone who play on eastern will be kill by us :)

Elrodeus
03-24-2014, 07:14 PM
It's sad when a Themepark game has better PvP mechanics than a game that totes it's PvP around.

Seriously...if you attack a player, you should be able to be attacked by all his friends as well. I sure hope they at least take advantage of the old accepted PvP flagging systems that's been around for years. If I attack a player on a ship you better believe I expect his entire crew to be attacking me after I do it.

I hate to say it but I feel the only other way to force them to change this is to abuse the system repeatedly until the forums are flooded with people complaining about a single guy taking an entire galleon's trade packs one at a time without them having a chance to defend themselves.

King
03-24-2014, 07:51 PM
I feel like 80% of this thread is utterly confused about why this was posted. It's almost like they didn't even read the first post. I read through a lot of the thread and it's almost -.-.


Some of them started attacking one of our fellow party member, we were unable to attack them back.

That is what the thread is about. The guards really had nothing to do with it until someone thought he wanted carebear guards or something. Which... people just don't read to understand- they just seem to read to argue random "points."

yuyu
03-24-2014, 08:15 PM
If you guys can get enough attention from Trion, they can easily request XL to change this.

AeonAuron
03-25-2014, 01:35 AM
I feel like 80% of this thread is utterly confused about why this was posted. It's almost like they didn't even read the first post. I read through a lot of the thread and it's almost -.-.

That is what the thread is about. The guards really had nothing to do with it until someone thought he wanted carebear guards or something. Which... people just don't read to understand- they just seem to read to argue random "points."

Yeah, it is nice to see someone can see the point clearly, thank you. Some people just came here and told me to do my trades to a different location next time -_-

Voldrax
03-25-2014, 04:27 AM
The best solution as I see it is to allow party grouping, where if one party member is attacked, the group is flagged as attacked and can retaliate as long as they are within a certain range of the directly attacked party member.

Mavol
03-25-2014, 04:33 AM
The best solution as I see it is to allow party grouping, where if one party member is attacked, the group is flagged as attacked and can retaliate as long as they are within a certain range of the directly attacked party member.

Agreed, this seems to be the consensus and i think the most sensible solution

Voldrax
03-25-2014, 04:51 AM
It might also (or just 'instead' to keep it interesting?) be a nice idea to have a target supporting feature similar to Rift... be able to target heal your pal and send damage at their target if they are in conflict. This would require a tiny bit more strategy than just loading the boat with a big group and heading into enemy territory with no expected consequences.

AeonAuron
03-25-2014, 04:53 AM
I am not sure if party/group flagging will work because they may not be in same party/group?

Voldrax
03-25-2014, 04:56 AM
I am not sure if party/group flagging will work because they may not be in same party/group?

That's the point of the solution... they would have to group together for each others' protection.

AeonAuron
03-25-2014, 05:07 AM
Currently they are safe anyway, we cant attack them. Why would they want to create a party? If they do that, they will be flagged if anyone from party starts to attack.

Voldrax
03-25-2014, 05:17 AM
Currently they are safe anyway, we cant attack them. Why would they want to create a party? If they do that, they will be flagged if anyone from party starts to attack.

It is not 'they' that should group... it is 'you' that should group in order to enter 'their' territory with a hint of safety in numbers... but only if this idea is implemented into the game. ;)

AeonAuron
03-25-2014, 05:22 AM
So our group gets flagged and able to attack them? Now it makes sense :D

Wiseman
04-01-2014, 08:13 PM
I think the purpose of the party not being flagged was to keep other factions from having definite success by having a level 50 character watching their back in a lowbie area for a trade turn-in.

I guess XLGames figures that your danger shouldn't end when you cross the ocean. I think this decision is based on the premise of easy trading on foreign soil by the opposite faction..

That being said, they need to place another pvp trade point on the eastern continent. If it's already there, but simply on an unlocked zone, then they need to open it up so that there is a fair balance of protection. :cool:

Dusty Monk
04-02-2014, 04:37 AM
Hmm, it's surprising that is hasn't been addressed if it's a common issue. Especially given how long KR version has been out.

Sorry, I haven't played the game yet so this may be a ridiculous suggestion, but would things be less of a problem if each side had 2 ports instead of one side having just one safe port to use?

Westerners only have to camp one port to kill easterners in almost complete safety. Easterners have two and most easterners wanting to camp a safe port will choose the quest one. So the other safe port on the eastern continent will usually only have newbies there and thus will often be safe for westerners.

rodde
04-02-2014, 04:58 AM
that system is made to protect lvl 1-29 players from abusive PKERS. all you need to do is go to a lvl 30+ map and you should be fine.

rodde
04-02-2014, 04:59 AM
i even think that guards in lvl 1-29 maps should attack red names on sight.

AeonAuron
04-02-2014, 05:02 AM
that system is made to protect lvl 1-29 players from abusive PKERS. all you need to do is go to a lvl 30+ map and you should be fine.

And then the system is being abused this way, as you can see this is not a proper solution to protect newbies.


i even think that guards in lvl 1-29 maps should attack red names on sight.

They already do, except the ones on docks.

Voldrax
04-02-2014, 05:14 AM
What if there were a special trade or caravan group type that included a max of 5 players within a 10 level range or some such? It's still not a perfect solution, but it may be better than protection in numbers being entirely non-existent.

Auryn
04-02-2014, 05:24 AM
So we were doing a trade run to South East city (we are Westerners) with some friends again last night, in Russian servers. When we hit the docks, there were some red players (enemies). Some of them started attacking one of our fellow party member, we were unable to attack them back. Because it is their continent (makes sense?)

Just to clarify a few things,

1/ Did a player Called 'Spellchucker' take the pack

(it was me xD, i wasn't in the fight but it dropped next to me so i took it - happens to me most runs, if you greed for money the ir is risks)

2/ Players being attack CAN fight back and Lv50 NPC's protect you -if you got caught it the water its fair gain I'm sorry :(

3/ This is an Open world/Sandbox/PvP game, if you dont like Open PvP this game is not for you (or stay our of PvP areas)

4/ This game will not fail due to anything PVP wise - Its the biggest selling point about it, Good old risk rewards game.

Just my opinions but the mass's share them

AeonAuron
04-02-2014, 05:52 AM
Just to clarify a few things,

1/ Did a player Called 'Spellchucker' take the pack

(it was me xD, i wasn't in the fight but it dropped next to me so i took it - happens to me most runs, if you greed for money the ir is risks)

2/ Players being attack CAN fight back and Lv50 NPC's protect you -if you got caught it the water its fair gain I'm sorry :(

3/ This is an Open world/Sandbox/PvP game, if you dont like Open PvP this game is not for you (or stay our of PvP areas)

4/ This game will not fail due to anything PVP wise - Its the biggest selling point about it, Good old risk rewards game.

Just my opinions but the mass's share them

1- Don't really remember lol, sorry :P
2- Yes, player who getting attacked can fight back. But what if 5 enemies attacking him? Which one of them he should fight back? Level 50 NPCs (guards) can only protect if you are in their attack range. Let's say we got caught in water, but it is still safe zone so it is not a fair gain. Sadly the safe zone line is not just on the continent. Take a look at this picture i just created:
http://i.imgur.com/xcz05H9.jpg
So if you crossed the safe zone line, no matter on water or continent, you are pretty much death.
3- ...
4- In my opinion, this system destroys the pvp/trade on southern continents.

KeksX
04-02-2014, 05:54 AM
that system is made to protect lvl 1-29 players from abusive PKERS. all you need to do is go to a lvl 30+ map and you should be fine.

The suggested change of group-flagging will not affect "abusive PKers" at all. Because you still can not attack lowies unless they attack you first.

Jamja
04-02-2014, 06:29 AM
It was absolutely a GREAT mechanic to abuse back on KR release.
Made a lot of money just gliding down to trade ships and picking the occupants off one by one.. Pulling out the pearl and sinking their trade ship.
There were only 4 of us, sometimes vs 10 or more.

Safe zones out in the ocean made no sense to me.
This mechanic was ♥♥♥♥♥♥ed, but hey we used it!

Unfortunately, patch after patch more short sighted, ill conceived game mechanics like this made it into the game (or in this case remained in the game).

I'm looking at you here Trion, don't ♥♥♥♥ this game up. Make sure we get the Western Release we deserve and the game many of have been waiting for, for 5+ years

p.s. much love, I'm sure you are listening

Vilemouse
04-02-2014, 09:13 AM
I really wish there was a limitation to what higher level players of the other faction could do to lower level.. i think there really needs to be a limit to what players can attack like.. say your.. 50.. and theres a small lvl 20 .. well haha goodbye level 20.. they should be safe from a high level gank.. which is a major issue in tera... with its open world any character pvp even if your not flagged.. it sucks to level..

GBousley
04-02-2014, 10:24 AM
I have spent serious PVP hours in games that had gaurd mechanics (AOC for example), and I can tell you that these mechanics are more used to grief than to spare grief. I think that Guard mechanics should be used sparingly, and only to protect players while they vendor, or utilize another same type of system UI mechanic that may exist in PVP areas. I think that as long as there is a PVP solution, then there does not require a developer or game mechanic solution, just as long as the pvp solution is not overtly 1-sided. Are there vendors in these pvp areas where it makes sense that you need "safe spot"? Are there other types of interactive UI objects that beg for the same? If so, then great.. place some guards. If not, consider removing them wholly. Guards detract from good pvp. period.

From what the OP says, the mechanics sound almost game-breaking. There should be group affiliation in pvp flagging. So, if one player attacks another player that is in a group, then the attacking player should appear red to the entire group, and further, if the attacker is in a group, his entire group should appear red to the opposing group. If not, then you've just made grouping pointless, where in pvp, group-making is a very important aspect. What this also does is makes the attacker apply more consideration into engaging an enemy when he knows he'll be dragging all of his group into the fight, naturally.

madmaru
04-02-2014, 01:42 PM
Another simple solution to the OP don't go trade in a port that is designated as safe zone. The safe zone regions are for players level 1-30 and only a few zones are like this for each faction for the low level players. The majority of the regions are conflict zones and have no such restrictions. The OP made the mistake of taking a tradeship into a safe region of the enemy and paid for their mistake. If they would have taken their tradeship to ANY other port they would not have had the issues they are complaining about.
They did not HAVE to go there to unload their tradpacks, each faction has multiple ports to sell tradepacks at. The OP does not want to admit their mistake and instead chooses to cry about broken game mechanics where none exist.
If these game mechanics were not in place as they are, enemy lvl 50-55 players would be swarming the level 1-30 areas and one shotting all the newbies learning how to play their characters and questing and these problems would be way worst then someone making a mistake of going to the wrong port to unload tradepacks.

AeonAuron
04-03-2014, 03:19 AM
I have spent serious PVP hours in games that had gaurd mechanics (AOC for example), and I can tell you that these mechanics are more used to grief than to spare grief. I think that Guard mechanics should be used sparingly, and only to protect players while they vendor, or utilize another same type of system UI mechanic that may exist in PVP areas. I think that as long as there is a PVP solution, then there does not require a developer or game mechanic solution, just as long as the pvp solution is not overtly 1-sided. Are there vendors in these pvp areas where it makes sense that you need "safe spot"? Are there other types of interactive UI objects that beg for the same? If so, then great.. place some guards. If not, consider removing them wholly. Guards detract from good pvp. period.

From what the OP says, the mechanics sound almost game-breaking. There should be group affiliation in pvp flagging. So, if one player attacks another player that is in a group, then the attacking player should appear red to the entire group, and further, if the attacker is in a group, his entire group should appear red to the opposing group. If not, then you've just made grouping pointless, where in pvp, group-making is a very important aspect. What this also does is makes the attacker apply more consideration into engaging an enemy when he knows he'll be dragging all of his group into the fight, naturally.

Very well said.


Another simple solution to the OP don't go trade in a port that is designated as safe zone.

We've gone through this... Please check the older pages to see similar discussions. I am not going to give you the same answers i did over and over again.

Nimarhie
04-07-2014, 08:12 AM
Allowing pk in a supposedly safe zone is a stupid idea and should be removed. At the very least, PKers should only be able to attack someone if the victim is flagged as well. Also I have never played a pvp game where the town guard idea actually worked. Almost every time, they are either extremely weak, or they just stand around and do nothing. In L2 their only use was for deleveling your character.


I'm still wondering how that developer in Trion's live stream leveled to 50 with only gathering stuff without having ever done any combat... I'm guessing they just died a lot due to silly pk mechanics.

Venge
04-07-2014, 08:26 AM
You have never played uo then. The system will be fine. Pls should be allowed movement. People should be allowed to attack reds whenever and wherever. U flag grey in a town, I'm gonna attack you. I wish some of u would research how well UO worked

Nimarhie
04-07-2014, 08:33 AM
This isn't UO... also did you get tired of typing halfway through? You started out typing out "you" then switched to "u" xD

KeksX
04-07-2014, 08:34 AM
I don't see how ArcheAge not being UO makes the argument any less valid.

ButteredToast
04-07-2014, 08:40 AM
Allowing pk in a supposedly safe zone is a stupid idea and should be removed. At the very least, PKers should only be able to attack someone if the victim is flagged as well. Also I have never played a pvp game where the town guard idea actually worked. Almost every time, they are either extremely weak, or they just stand around and do nothing. In L2 their only use was for deleveling your character.


I'm still wondering how that developer in Trion's live stream leveled to 50 with only gathering stuff without having ever done any combat... I'm guessing they just died a lot due to silly pk mechanics.

Well if it's the enemy continent then it's natural for you to be able to attack people from the other continent. But what they should do is like some people have said and give players a debuff that lets them get attacked by anyone if they attack someone.

Bee
04-07-2014, 08:49 AM
Do not go to the other sides safe zones unless you want to get attacked, it is simple.

It is also fun running through them and one guy attacks you, you kill him and keep moving makes it a risk to travel their safe zones.

I do not thing this needs to be changed at all.

cruseyd
04-07-2014, 09:15 AM
There should be group aggro/flagging.

If you go to the enemy continent's perma safe zones:

you won't be able to attack the opposite faction players
but they can freely attack you after which you will have the chance to defend yourself and fight back, but only you and not the whole party.
The guards are there to protect you in a way, but they can't deal with 20+ players turning at you.


So in short, they will just take out your party members one by one, and you can't do anything about it.

Forgive my ignorance as I haven't had the chance to play ArcheAge at all yet, but is there a "party" or "group" mechanic like there is in most MMOs? If so it would absolutely stand to reason that if someone in your party get's attacked by a member of the opposing faction then everyone in your party is flagged for PvP.

This could even lead to some fun strategies like having one person walking along the main road with a trade pack while the rest of his party lies in ambush close by /gg :P

Anyways, game mechanics aren't really Trion's area, and there's been a lot of ♥♥♥♥♥ing about what Trion should/should not make sure is in the game (as if they had that power) but this sounds like a pretty messed up mechanic to me. It would definitely improve the game for the Western audience if this were fixed (in the way I suggested or a similar way).

SMP420
04-07-2014, 09:22 AM
Sounds like an exploitation of a feature that simply wasn't "turned on". There's no reason your group/party should not be able to defend you if you are attacked. Period.

I am pretty sure they can fix this with a few simple adjustments to their code on XL Games part. Hopefully Trions can requests a correction to this.

It doesn't seem like the game is "working as intended" and I have heard the same argument multiple time from people on RU servers.

Needs to be addressed and corrected for the sake of retaining the integrity of the game experience.

AeonAuron
04-07-2014, 09:39 AM
Do not go to the other sides safe zones unless you want to get attacked, it is simple.

It is also fun running through them and one guy attacks you, you kill him and keep moving makes it a risk to travel their safe zones.

I do not thing this needs to be changed at all.

It is also fun to die against 2 reds when you are in a group of 20. You should try it.


Forgive my ignorance as I haven't had the chance to play ArcheAge at all yet, but is there a "party" or "group" mechanic like there is in most MMOs? If so it would absolutely stand to reason that if someone in your party get's attacked by a member of the opposing faction then everyone in your party is flagged for PvP.

Yep it SHOULD be like that, but, as you can see...


Anyways, game mechanics aren't really Trion's area, and there's been a lot of ♥♥♥♥♥ing about what Trion should/should not make sure is in the game (as if they had that power) but this sounds like a pretty messed up mechanic to me. It would definitely improve the game for the Western audience if this were fixed (in the way I suggested or a similar way).

Well since it is impossible for us to tell this to XLGames, maybe we will have chance with telling it to Trion :(


Sounds like an exploitation of a feature that simply wasn't "turned on". There's no reason your group/party should not be able to defend you if you are attacked. Period.

I am pretty sure they can fix this with a few simple adjustments to their code on XL Games part. Hopefully Trions can requests a correction to this.

It doesn't seem like the game is "working as intended" and I have heard the same argument multiple time from people on RU servers.

Needs to be addressed and corrected for the sake of retaining the integrity of the game experience.

Yeah agree. Still no reply from Trion devs though, i even Tweeted them.

Emptyquiver
04-07-2014, 10:11 AM
Sounds like an exploitation of a feature that simply wasn't "turned on". There's no reason your group/party should not be able to defend you if you are attacked. Period.

I am pretty sure they can fix this with a few simple adjustments to their code on XL Games part. Hopefully Trions can requests a correction to this.

It doesn't seem like the game is "working as intended" and I have heard the same argument multiple time from people on RU servers.

Needs to be addressed and corrected for the sake of retaining the integrity of the game experience.


Can we please take a deep breath here, use a little critical thinking, and take responsibility for our actions?

There are a few important lessons here:

Firstly taking your trade ship, or any ship, with trade packs in tow, into the other factions port in a sub-30 PvE zone is a terrible idea. That system isn't just there to protect lowbies questing, but also to provide them with safe waters to build their first ship in and trade runs to blueprints for their first ship. As posters in this thread prove, the combat restrictions in sub level 30 zones is relatively well known; look it up before you charge in.

(Additionally, one thing I can think of as to why parties can't defend each other in sub-30 PvE ports is to prevent baiting new players into attacking someone, say a lowbie of the other faction, then having a stealth 50 or two gang them down. I've had this happen in WoW so don't think for a minute people wouldn't do it here.)

Secondly if you insist on trying to trade in a protected sub level 30 port - SEND IN A SCOUT ON A HARPOON BOAT. If the port is clear, great! Go for it. If it's not, change course and go to one of the PvP enabled ports with neutral guards that will protect you the majority of the time (be wary of people on towers/rooftops trying to nuke you as the guards won't path or attack them up there.) Honestly if you aren't using a scout at every port, you're asking for trouble - big time.

Thirdly be aware of what time it is in the region you're playing ArcheAge in. Attempting to do dangerous trade runs during the Russian prime time is almost suicidal unless your guild is large or have trusted allies with you. I've learned this the hard way myself and watched many others on twitch.tv streams do the same - it's not fun. If you pick the right time of day, even that protected PvE port might be a ghost town and "safe" to a degree.


To the OP; I'm sorry you lost all the goods and have to pay out the arse to repair your trade ship. You and your crew made an honest mistake and were taught a very tough lesson; it sucks but that's the nature of games with harsh penalties for being caught unawares. I remember way back in the ancient past taking some (at the time) expensive gear into the wilderness on Runescape, not knowing what I was getting into, and losing it. It sucks, it makes you mad, but look at it as a lesson and be safe in the future.

Or, as others have said, go to your own PvE port and look for some mistaken individuals from the other faction trying to do this and repossess their goods. Think of it as "paying it forward" (and getting back some of the lost goods/money from your own disaster.)

Remember it is just a game, keep your head up, and try to have fun. If risk/reward isn't your cup of tea, and this game is pretty light on it as is, there are other games to play without this.

SMP420
04-07-2014, 10:46 AM
You extrapolated my valid statement into something having to do with PvP tactics?

AND you're actually DEFENDING an exploit?... ew.

The people who do this are exploiting. You seem to revel in it as if they're using some "superior intellect" as if they're clever or cool... I call people like this scum bags. Scum. Bags.

What's worse is they are self aware scum bags, nothing is controlling them or "making" them be scum bags. These are people who consciously make a decisions to be a scum bag!

This has nothing to do with any kind of tactical planning or risk reward mechanics. You missed the point completely.

I am grouped with someone. If that person is attacked by anything I want to be able to participate with them. Period.

That is the purpose is being in a group with another player. The rest (levels, locations, number of enemies, etc) is just circumstantial (hence arguable) and moot to the OPs point.

It is an exploit if another player can attack a member of my group without recourse from the rest of the group and does so with the intent to use that mechanic to their advantage.

AeonAuron
04-07-2014, 12:09 PM
@Emptyquiver You are not talking about the PvP system on 1-30 level areas, you are talking about how we lost our stuff and giving us advices to what to do next time, that is something we really don't care. You need to focus on the system itself where you cant fight your enemy, or even enemies. And please also think about a ganker 50 level players who camping on that spot and waiting for lowbies to come to the docks (the dock where every low level player will pay a visit because of an important quest). That low level player cant even bring his/her friends to protect him/her and deliver the quest safely...

Take a look at this comment:


It was absolutely a GREAT mechanic to abuse back on KR release.
Made a lot of money just gliding down to trade ships and picking the occupants off one by one.. Pulling out the pearl and sinking their trade ship.
There were only 4 of us, sometimes vs 10 or more.

Safe zones out in the ocean made no sense to me.
This mechanic was ♥♥♥♥♥♥ed, but hey we used it!

Unfortunately, patch after patch more short sighted, ill conceived game mechanics like this made it into the game (or in this case remained in the game).

I'm looking at you here Trion, don't ♥♥♥♥ this game up. Make sure we get the Western Release we deserve and the game many of have been waiting for, for 5+ years

p.s. much love, I'm sure you are listening

Will you still support this easily abusable game mechanic?


Or, as others have said, go to your own PvE port and look for some mistaken individuals from the other faction trying to do this and repossess their goods. Think of it as "paying it forward" (and getting back some of the lost goods/money from your own disaster.)

No thank you. I am not abusing such sh*tty systems like others. I actually prefer playing fairly.


Remember it is just a game, keep your head up, and try to have fun. If risk/reward isn't your cup of tea, and this game is pretty light on it as is, there are other games to play without this.

I do realize this is just a game, but i'll do my best to try making it a better game with such suggestions.

Risk/Reward you talking about is really really different thing. Go to Liberty Island if you want risk and get rewarded more than usual. At least there you can fight with your enemies. Dying with tied hands is not about risk/reward at all.

Like how SMP420 said, this is an exploit.

Steelwind
04-14-2014, 04:18 PM
But wait folks, there's more!!

There is another similar issue whereas if a player steals your ship near guards and you attack the player in defense of your own ship, the guards will attack you instead of player doing the stealing. This happens with guards of your own faction or enemy faction guards. For this to work, the enemy does not attack you but rather just takes the wheel of your ship, any action taken by you will result in the guards attacking you.

While this might be difficult to recode, defending your own ship should not get you killed by guards while the enemy sails away with your ship laughing.

Sobekeus
04-14-2014, 05:28 PM
First your not telling the whole story your whole crew was far from the npcs which were yellow and if you were close to the npcs when you were attacked the guards would have killed them.

You shouldn't need NPC guards to PvP. Kind of defeats the point.

The Whip
04-14-2014, 05:56 PM
3/ This is an Open world/Sandbox/PvP game, if you dont like Open PvP this game is not for you (or stay our of PvP areas)


That wasn't in reply to me but I just wanted to say that the OP complaint wasn't about this being an open PvP game, it was about there being a flaw in the PvP system, of which I agree.

I was just watching a NA stream the other day and the streamer mentioned that PvP was flagged for the entire group when one member of the party gets attacked, apparently the details of this are unknown to a large number of current players since that was incorrect. Hopefully this gets fixed.

Zero Kelvin
04-14-2014, 11:17 PM
There should be group aggro/flagging.

If you go to the enemy continent's perma safe zones:

you won't be able to attack the opposite faction players
but they can freely attack you after which you will have the chance to defend yourself and fight back, but only you and not the whole party.
The guards are there to protect you in a way, but they can't deal with 20+ players turning at you.


So in short, they will just take out your party members one by one, and you can't do anything about it.

If you're linked in a party and one of your members is attacked, your whole party(that's linked) AT LEAST should be able to fight back(defend themselves). In other-words, it prevents such a thing where one enemy is picked off one by one. I mean, it only makes sense that if you attack an enemy (especially when he's in a group), you're attacking that enemy's allies as well.

I wouldn't have any problems with this.

If you're on your home continent and are confronted with a force of enemies and they out-number you, by all realistic rights, you shouldn't be able to attack them and kill them one by one without them doing something back. If you find yourself outnumbered for the task, call in reinforcements from your allies and then have one big shin dig go at it.

So to be clear, I support:
If you're attacked and you're in a group, all the members in your group can attack back the player who attacked you.
If you're attacked by someone who is in a group, you and your group members can attack back all members of the opposing enemy group.

Zidanic
04-15-2014, 12:21 AM
Forgive my ignorance as I haven't had the chance to play ArcheAge at all yet, but is there a "party" or "group" mechanic like there is in most MMOs? If so it would absolutely stand to reason that if someone in your party get's attacked by a member of the opposing faction then everyone in your party is flagged for PvP.

This could even lead to some fun strategies like having one person walking along the main road with a trade pack while the rest of his party lies in ambush close by /gg :P

Anyways, game mechanics aren't really Trion's area, and there's been a lot of ♥♥♥♥♥ing about what Trion should/should not make sure is in the game (as if they had that power) but this sounds like a pretty messed up mechanic to me. It would definitely improve the game for the Western audience if this were fixed (in the way I suggested or a similar way).

If you read the thread you would see that yes there is a party, and he was in one, and two that only the PERSON BEING ATTACKED can ATTACK THE PERSON ATTACKING HIM which is stupid when you think about it, if you go to the enemy side of the map you are enemies and you both should be able to attack each other.

Aedgyth
04-15-2014, 12:52 AM
If you attack someone you should be flagged for 5 minutes after your last action - simple, end of story. If you attack a party you can then be killed by them, if they kill the player, they themselves become flagged. ANYONE attacking someone else should be killable, if you don't want to flag yourself - then be nice.... if you want a chance to steal some loot - fine, but you will have to work for it, whereas currently it's like taking candy from a baby.

kitamara
04-15-2014, 04:37 AM
sounds like yet another bug in RU version to me. Makes no sense is only reason I can think of tbh.

KeksX
04-15-2014, 04:54 AM
sounds like yet another bug in RU version to me. Makes no sense is only reason I can think of tbh.

It's exactly like this in KR!

AeonAuron
04-16-2014, 07:01 AM
Just happened again last week, uploading a video and you guys can see what i mean clearly there. Hopefully upload will be done tonight, i don't have that good connection :o

AeonAuron
04-16-2014, 07:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPIUkBGoNlc

jsolo15
04-16-2014, 07:54 AM
This is BS and should be corrected. If one of your party/raid member get attacked then that party/raid should be able to attack back. Seriously them why bring along or travel in a group if they can't help protect the group.
Makes no freaking sense unless your a ganker group with no pvp skill what so ever. Seriously what is picking off one member at a time with a group displaying bad game mechanics.

This need to be brought up in the next Trion web/twitch cast.

Sobekeus
04-16-2014, 08:00 AM
Bottom line for Trion: This is a show stopper for pretty much anyone serious about PvP.

Whoaness
04-16-2014, 02:32 PM
Sounds like it should be a global pvp flag that gets toggled when engaging PVP.

Koros
04-16-2014, 02:46 PM
Simple Fix.

Group flagging like talked about here prior to my post. If the group member is attacked, the TEF goes to ALL party members involved at the time of the attack. Any new party members added to the group AFTER the initial attack will have to wait until another form of aggression is made before they are flagged. The only changes need to be made are to "Safe Zones". Conflict Zones and open seas are fine. Trion, I have been a hardcore pvp player since EQ1. I love EVE's system, I liked SWG's, but this system here would ruin pvp for me and the majority of anyone I know who wants to partake in pvp. There is no reasonable explanation to allow an enemy player to pick off lower levels with zero repercussions when that lower level player has 3x the friendlies in his raid.

This system should NOT extend to raid groups though. Only the primary group of the person being attacked. It should also have a maximum range for defense flagging. If more players in the raid are attacked then as each person is engaged that group TEF would also be started. This would prevent a large raid exploiting safe zones to get kills by retaliating, but still allow groups to defend themselves if attacked in an enemy controlled safe zone.

Bloodtau
04-16-2014, 02:48 PM
Bottom line for Trion: This is a show stopper for pretty much anyone serious about PvP.

The game is pvp any more? From the fan bois who reply on here anyone would think it is The Sims online.....

Alakuu
04-16-2014, 02:50 PM
Combat should be either flag engaged. Or not.
Never is it ok to get attacked without reprimand.
Probably will be fixed.
Also are you sure this is the way the game is?
There isn't a flag for PVP or something? Its insane to think that this is the way the game is designed.

If it doesn't flag the party well thats just wrong. But if you can't even defend yourself being attacked directly then I'd imagine trion will look into getting that changed.

Bloodtau
04-16-2014, 02:51 PM
Combat should be either flag engaged. Or not.
Never is it ok to get attacked without reprimand.
Probably will be fixed.
Also are you sure this is the way the game is?
There isn't a flag for PVP or something? Its insane to think that this is the way the game is designed.

If it doesn't flag the party well thats just wrong. But if you can't even defend yourself being attacked directly then I'd imagine trion will look into getting that changed.


it wasn't changed on any of the other versions, I don't see how trion will be able to get it changed..

Koros
04-16-2014, 03:28 PM
The game is pvp any more? From the fan bois who reply on here anyone would think it is The Sims online.....

weren't you just on archeage source the other day complaining about getting killed in a pvp fight? Now you are here trying to call others out for making it like sims online? Interesting.

Sobekeus
04-16-2014, 03:28 PM
The game is pvp any more? From the fan bois who reply on here anyone would think it is The Sims online.....

Well, I'll be pvping. I can see Russia from my house.

Bloodtau
04-16-2014, 03:35 PM
weren't you just on archeage source the other day complaining about getting killed in a pvp fight? Now you are here trying to call others out for making it like sims online? Interesting.

Nope, the opposite. I was calling out some streamers whining about getting killed in a pvp zone while he was fishing. He even came onto our guild recruitment page to whine about it.
Double check your facts dude, makes you look a bit more in on the important matters ;)

Bloodtau
04-16-2014, 03:36 PM
Well, I'll be pvping. I can see Russia from my house.

You Live in the Ukraine?

Grey
04-16-2014, 03:37 PM
Nope, the opposite. I was calling out some streamers whining about getting killed in a pvp zone while he was fishing. He even came onto our guild recruitment page to whine about it.

I still don't get why people do that, you go into a PvP zone, your at risk, simple as that. The only complaint should one if another guild your guild has an alliance with kills you, or something of the sort. Simply just don't go into the PvP zone if your going to complain about being PK'd.

Solidlight
04-16-2014, 03:39 PM
Keep it the way it is. You have plenty of other options and chances to go into war zones where you can fight back.

Sobekeus
04-16-2014, 03:41 PM
Keep it the way it is. You have plenty of other options and chances to go into war zones where you can fight back.

One of those options being just don't go to the other half of the game world?

Koros
04-16-2014, 03:42 PM
Nope, the opposite. I was calling out some streamers whining about getting killed in a pvp zone while he was fishing. He even came onto our guild recruitment page to whine about it.
Double check your facts dude, makes you look a bit more in on the important matters ;)


http://archeagesource.com/topic/2850-eternity-the-only-west-english-guild-on-даута/?p=48500

you mean those facts?

Cyrane
04-16-2014, 05:15 PM
I would very much like to get a reply from a Trion representative to this issue.

It's a legitimate concern of many people and if it is indeed as described by the original poster, something that will seriously affect the enjoyment of a lot of people interested in this game.

Bloodtau
04-16-2014, 05:23 PM
http://archeagesource.com/topic/2850-eternity-the-only-west-english-guild-on-даута/?p=48500

you mean those facts?

Still not facts. For a start, you said a few days ago, check the dates again.
Read the entire post before picking bits out you feel like....

Koros
04-16-2014, 06:01 PM
Still not facts. For a start, you said a few days ago, check the dates again.
Read the entire post before picking bits out you feel like....

You can argue about the timing of the post not being "days", I could careless. If you want to be a hypocrite that's your business, just figured you might not want to start calling people names on this forum. /shrug.

Gobblepuff
04-16-2014, 06:08 PM
I experienced this on the RU server as well.
The good thing is, to complete the quest you only need to get within the vicinity of the quest npc. You don't actually have to turn your trade pack in.
The bad thing is, if you're doing regular trade runs, then this will annoy the crap out of you because there really is nothing you can do about it. Enemy players will exploit it for sure.

However it's not something that would make me quit the game. You don't need to go on a small group run trading to the other continent. You can just as easily do safe route trading which is much slower but surely over time you will achieve your goals. Also, join a big guild to speed things up.

Bloodtau
04-16-2014, 06:09 PM
You can argue about the timing of the post not being "days", I could careless. If you want to be a hypocrite that's your business, just figured you might not want to start calling people names on this forum. /shrug.

or what? you'll post another link of something completely different to what somebody said.
Go ahead.

Zerokx
04-18-2014, 05:11 PM
Please change it!

Sobekeus
04-19-2014, 09:39 AM
This is still a big issue for my entire group.

itbedatguy
04-19-2014, 10:30 AM
Although I agree this is kind of upsetting, I feel like this is basically what ArcheAge strives to be.. any situation is possible, thus being called a Sandbox MMO. Positive or not, I think it's the game's mission to make it so we have things like this happen.

Elrodeus
04-19-2014, 11:35 AM
Positive or not, I think it's the game's mission to make it so we have things like this happen.


What??? It's the games mission to not allow you to defend your friend from getting PKed? If anything this should be the opposite....you know since it's sandbox and all, we should be able to PK anyone at ALL times. But quite honestly that's not even the point. The point is that any player that engages in ANY pvp activity should then be open to being attacked by any other player that wishes to engage in pvp, especially against players of opposite factions.

If you engage in pvp actions you should be flagged for pvp, simple as that. This whole well it's my territory so attacking you means your friends can't join the fight is complete horse feces.

Tropheus
04-19-2014, 11:41 AM
There are plenty of places to PVP then these newb starting zones that are "Safe Zones" for the faction. But I guess if someone attacks the other faction first they should be flagged for PVP, so that they can be assisted.

Knowledge
04-19-2014, 11:44 AM
such a simple solution. outside of war zones, if you enter the other non-native continent everyone is flagged for you and you are flagged for everyone else. issue solved.

Elrodeus
04-19-2014, 11:50 AM
There are plenty of places to PVP then these newb starting zones that are "Safe Zones" for the faction. But I guess if someone attacks the other faction first they should be flagged for PVP, so that they can be assisted.

We're still talking about a zone in the game where someone was delivering goods for a trade run. If that zone happened to be a "noob" zone then they need to either remove the NPC that accepts trade packs or allow people to defend themselves AND THEIR PARTY from the attackers trying to steal those packs.

Again, a simple flagging system would fix this issue. If you're level 12 and you attack a level 46 you have opened yourself up to being ganged by him AND his group.

Solipsism
04-19-2014, 11:58 AM
Yeah, this is a really silly issue that shouldn't exist. It's ridiculous to watch the vid in the OP where the other faction can literally run right through your group and pick off a members 1 by 1 while the rest sit around and watch helplessly. Allowing the "home team" to do this really ruins any incentive to do anything on the foreign continent.

If you're on the opposing continent and an enemy player attacks you, they should be flagged for everyone for a certain amount of time, not just the single person they attacked.

Nexo
04-20-2014, 06:45 AM
I played a lot of archeage and at first its kinda of a problem but at a point u realize that the place that are worth it for traderuns are not actually in safezone but in wars one like cuba island or zones lvl 30-40.
Its kinda of a problem but you can get around it in my opinion.

madmaru
04-20-2014, 08:10 AM
Bottom line for Trion: This is a show stopper for pretty much anyone serious about PvP.

Anyone serious about pvp is not in the "safe zones" pvp'n but rather in the contested zones when they are at war collecting honor points from killing enemy. Any group that wonders into the safe zone looking for a fight is in the wrong region and only looking for easy kills on low level players that attack them.

As for the OP and their tradeship they took it into the wrong port and paid for their mistake. Had they taken their tradeship into any other port they would not have experienced this issue. To ask for trion to change the mechanics of the game based on player error and lack of experience and knowledge of where to go when doing certain tasks is stupid and ignorant.

Constructively speaking, when in a safe zone anyone that initiates combat should be flagged as an aggressor and free to kill or be killed as it is in the contested regions.

Reijek
04-20-2014, 10:02 AM
Don't take trade ships to enemy safe zones? This is a pointless thread. Carebear please.

Reijek
04-20-2014, 10:27 AM
Don't take trade ships to enemy safe zones? This is a pointless thread. Carebear please.

After further thought I decided to give real contribution and explain exactly why OPs outrage is pointless and explain in further detail the PvP and PK Mechanics.... after Easter.

AeonAuron
04-21-2014, 05:54 AM
Don't take trade ships to enemy safe zones? This is a pointless thread. Carebear please.

After further thought I decided to give real contribution and explain exactly why OPs outrage is pointless and explain in further detail the PvP and PK Mechanics.... after Easter.

I don't know how many times i said this, but, the problem is not taking the trade ship there. It's about getting punched in the face with tied hands. And if you cant see the point of this thread please don't make any topics about PvP/PK mechanics.


The game is pvp any more? From the fan bois who reply on here anyone would think it is The Sims online.....

I don't know what did you mean there, but, if the game is forcing you to level up in the PvP zones, or even at enemy's continent then i assume yes this is a PvP based game.


I would very much like to get a reply from a Trion representative to this issue.

It's a legitimate concern of many people and if it is indeed as described by the original poster, something that will seriously affect the enjoyment of a lot of people interested in this game.

I am still waiting as well... Tired of doing more discussions on this already, we need to see what the 'boss' thinks about this.

Majiinfreddy
04-25-2014, 11:44 AM
If someone thinks adding MORE pvp to the game is somehow carebear, that person needs to educate himself. lol.

angrynarwhals
04-25-2014, 11:46 AM
such a simple solution. outside of war zones, if you enter the other non-native continent everyone is flagged for you and you are flagged for everyone else. issue solved.
This. Easy solution to a frustrating problem.

Vhyle
04-25-2014, 12:11 PM
Wow this is definitely broken .. and nothing could be further away from "sandbox".

I agree .. with the others .. if you enter the continent .. you are flagged instantly.

Isarii
04-25-2014, 12:19 PM
There should be group aggro/flagging.

If you go to the enemy continent's perma safe zones:

you won't be able to attack the opposite faction players
but they can freely attack you after which you will have the chance to defend yourself and fight back, but only you and not the whole party.
The guards are there to protect you in a way, but they can't deal with 20+ players turning at you.


So in short, they will just take out your party members one by one, and you can't do anything about it.

This is clearly ridiculous. Defenders should be flagged for PvP to anyone on the other faction after engaging in PvP, just like in every other game ever.

Pang
04-25-2014, 12:26 PM
This is clearly ridiculous. Defenders should be flagged for PvP to anyone on the other faction after engaging in PvP, just like in every other game ever.

I agree as well. Could this perhaps be a bug or glitch on the RU client? Because as far as I can recall after watching tons of streams of the NA client the past week or so I am pretty sure that when the defenders attack they are open to be attacked by the other faction, or maybe just the group of the player who was attacked. Again could be wrong but I haven't seen or heard this problem exist on the NA client.

AeonAuron
04-26-2014, 07:19 AM
I agree as well. Could this perhaps be a bug or glitch on the RU client? Because as far as I can recall after watching tons of streams of the NA client the past week or so I am pretty sure that when the defenders attack they are open to be attacked by the other faction, or maybe just the group of the player who was attacked. Again could be wrong but I haven't seen or heard this problem exist on the NA client.

Also like this in KR since ages. Maybe the streamer guy you watched wasn't on the enemy continent?

Majeer
04-26-2014, 07:40 AM
Well thankfully Trion seems to be listening to what we have to say, like with the new 80/20 trade pack split. Here's hoping they've seen this discussion. Maybe someone could link it to Scapes/Ocho on twitter.

Cik
04-26-2014, 08:14 AM
There should be group aggro/flagging.


Sounds like a reasonable solution.

AeonAuron
04-26-2014, 10:48 AM
Well thankfully Trion seems to be listening to what we have to say, like with the new 80/20 trade pack split. Here's hoping they've seen this discussion. Maybe someone could link it to Scapes/Ocho on twitter.

Already Tweeted to Amary and FireCait but no response from any Trion staff so far.

HappyZavulon
04-26-2014, 11:41 AM
So whats the point of being in a group when you can't help your group in combat?
If someone in your party gets attacked, you should be able to attack the attacker.

Se7ge
04-26-2014, 03:08 PM
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................................
Does Trion have rights to change some game mechanics? For example, safe zones. Here is my little story to summarize it:
• We are 5 Western friends, moving to East continent to deliver our quest. We are on a Catamaran (speed boat).
• One Eastern guy (enemy) jumps on to our boat.
• We cant attack him. (He needs to attack you first, because you are on their continent.)
• He starts to attack one of our friend.
• We cant attack him. (Only the player who getting attacked is able to attack.)
• He kills our friend.
• We cant attack him.
• He takes our friend's backpack and on his way to deliver it.
• We cant attack him.
• He delivers the pack, comes back and starts attacking to our other friend.
• We cant attack him.
And it goes on. If this really sounds legit for an PvP game, i got nothing to say. But if it doesn't, then it needs to be changed.
Are they able to change such systems which Koreans are happy to have but Western players thinks it sucks?
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......................................


THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!
TRION TAKE NOTE!!! THIS IS THE FIRST THING MUST BE FIXED!!!

OTHERWISE MANY PLAYERS WILL QUIT THE GAME!!! THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING!!!

Vhyle
04-26-2014, 03:12 PM
This is clearly ridiculous. Defenders should be flagged for PvP to anyone on the other faction after engaging in PvP, just like in every other game ever.

Yup .. cant argue with your logic :)

ScannaTheMage
04-26-2014, 03:15 PM
I believe they should take the same approach that WoW takes. If you enact any PvP, you get flagged. That includes buffing, healing, or any other actions preformed on players who are flagged for PvP of the same faction. PvP combat should allow you to be attacked regardless of location.

Darth Futuza
04-26-2014, 05:31 PM
Trion must fix this.


We cant attack him. (He needs to attack you first, because you are on their continent.)
^^This is bull crap design. You should be able to attack enemy factions no matter where they are. Sure it might lead to a massive invasion from West to East, or vice-versa, but...wouldn't that be cool?

Although I will add, couldn't you heal your buddy or something so he had a better chance of fighting the PKer off on his own?

Se7ge
04-27-2014, 05:37 AM
Trion comfort us that this is at least in your list of priority, it is very important for the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Razor
04-27-2014, 05:42 AM
That´s why we NEED PvE servers!!!

Krozam
04-27-2014, 06:04 AM
This sounds pretty damn serious. Trion should definitely pay attention to this problem.

Also, where are the community managers? I'm new here, so I don't know how it is most of the time, but checking the dev tracker, it seems the only things the staff are commenting on are payment problems and other technical issues. Naturally, those should take the highest priority, but serious discussions like these also need some attention. They don't need to have answers yet, but they need to show that they're paying attention. The level of communication from the staff is pathetic.

AeonAuron
04-27-2014, 09:47 AM
This sounds pretty damn serious. Trion should definitely pay attention to this problem.

Also, where are the community managers? I'm new here, so I don't know how it is most of the time, but checking the dev tracker, it seems the only things the staff are commenting on are payment problems and other technical issues. Naturally, those should take the highest priority, but serious discussions like these also need some attention. They don't need to have answers yet, but they need to show that they're paying attention. The level of communication from the staff is pathetic.

Agreed. As far as i know Scapes is the only CM for ArcheAge. And there are 2 producers, FireCait and Amary.

Se7ge
04-28-2014, 09:14 AM
Trion, please, any news about it?

DeMordey
04-28-2014, 09:36 AM
That´s why we NEED PvE servers!!!
Lol'd at this comment. Not sure if you didn't understand it right, but actually the rules are very PvE friendly. It's the "attackers" that come from the other continent that are in big disadvantage.

I tried it yesterday on the Alpha, there were 3 guys that came from the other continent to mine. Two of them around my level and one like 10 levels higher. I could just pick on the 2 guys one by one and kill them while I left the high level guy alone. They couldn't attack me until I attacked them. I was told that this is only in the "non-PvP" areas and that in the higher levels they can gank you.

While I understand (not necessary agree) why they can't attack you, I don't understand why when you voluntary attack them you don't get flagged for everyone. That's exactly why they can do stuff like in the OP video, where 2 of them can pretty much wipe all your group one by one.

BigCountry
04-28-2014, 09:44 AM
OP, next time scout out the docks first. Do not just blindly run your trade ship up in there, or yes you will die a horrible death and lose your tradepacks.

You need to park the boat outside the safe zone and send 1-2 guys in to scout the dock/npc. And if it's clear that's when you bring the ship in and turn the trade packs in.

I also recommended going to Liberty isle versus opposite continent if you have the numbers.

Also, 11PM US EST it's 7AM in Russia. So you should not have any real issues turning trade packs in. At least we don't :D

Izimzizi
04-28-2014, 11:10 AM
The number of people in this thread who have absolutely no reading comprehension absolutely amazes me...

The pack, the trade, the location, the boat, the guards, the faction and most everything else is irrelevant to the OP's point. All that matters is if someone in a group is attacked then the people in his group should be able to defend him otherwise you get situations where 2 guys can take out an unlimited number of enemies if they have the time only because of poorly thought out mechanics.

kizz
04-28-2014, 11:30 AM
Yea, flag the attacker with PVP status for a few minutes and allow all to attack. No need for 1 hour of pvp status or anything, just enough to promote defending your trade but not to scare away those wishing to pirate.

BigCountry
04-28-2014, 11:47 AM
The number of people in this thread who have absolutely no reading comprehension absolutely amazes me...

The pack, the trade, the location, the boat, the guards, the faction and most everything else is irrelevant to the OP's point. All that matters is if someone in a group is attacked then the people in his group should be able to defend him otherwise you get situations where 2 guys can take out an unlimited number of enemies if they have the time only because of poorly thought out mechanics.

??

Location is completely relevant to the OPs point. His group was ganked trying to deliver packs to an ENEMY faction dock.

This would not happen on Liberty Island for example, because there are no NPC guards there....

5acklunch
04-28-2014, 11:53 AM
Wait, so you can go to the other continent and the players there can kill you, but you are unable to fight back? I'm certain the guy attacking can fight back, but his group[ cannot?

That...sounds like a huge design flaw.


This is /thread

I know if this isn't correct this will be abused HEAVILY. They will lose players over this type of exploited gameplay.

Izimzizi
04-28-2014, 12:45 PM
??

Location is completely relevant to the OPs point. His group was ganked trying to deliver packs to an ENEMY faction dock.

This would not happen on Liberty Island for example, because there are no NPC guards there....

Wow.. just wow. You used the Guards, which are completely irrelevant to the point, to bring up location, which is also irrelevant.

Group flagging, that is the OP's point, that's it. What do guards and location have to do with group flagging vs individual flagging?

Isarii
04-28-2014, 02:59 PM
I'm watching people PvP in a stream right now. They're just all grouping up around each other in stealth until they get by an AoE. Using a normal flagging system would make so much more sense.

AeonAuron
04-30-2014, 03:57 AM
OP, next time scout out the docks first. Do not just blindly run your trade ship up in there, or yes you will die a horrible death and lose your tradepacks.

You need to park the boat outside the safe zone and send 1-2 guys in to scout the dock/npc. And if it's clear that's when you bring the ship in and turn the trade packs in.

I also recommended going to Liberty isle versus opposite continent if you have the numbers.

Also, 11PM US EST it's 7AM in Russia. So you should not have any real issues turning trade packs in. At least we don't :D

Okay then. Tell this to every single player who making trade for the first time, instead of fixing the broken mechanics.


The number of people in this thread who have absolutely no reading comprehension absolutely amazes me...

The pack, the trade, the location, the boat, the guards, the faction and most everything else is irrelevant to the OP's point. All that matters is if someone in a group is attacked then the people in his group should be able to defend him otherwise you get situations where 2 guys can take out an unlimited number of enemies if they have the time only because of poorly thought out mechanics.

Wow.. just wow. You used the Guards, which are completely irrelevant to the point, to bring up location, which is also irrelevant.

Group flagging, that is the OP's point, that's it. What do guards and location have to do with group flagging vs individual flagging?

^ Thank you!

KeksX
04-30-2014, 04:19 AM
OP, next time scout out the docks first. Do not just blindly run your trade ship up in there, or yes you will die a horrible death and lose your tradepacks.

You need to park the boat outside the safe zone and send 1-2 guys in to scout the dock/npc. And if it's clear that's when you bring the ship in and turn the trade packs in.

I also recommended going to Liberty isle versus opposite continent if you have the numbers.

Also, 11PM US EST it's 7AM in Russia. So you should not have any real issues turning trade packs in. At least we don't :D

You really think we haven't thought of stuff like this? The trading system is built around the fact that you sometimes HAVE to trade somewhere else. And you also can not all the time trade at 5AM. It shouldn't be the game mechanic hindering you from doing this -it should be you, the players around you and your potential enemies.

Ironfield
05-01-2014, 01:53 AM
Yeah we need this changed and the lack of response from Trion is a bit of a worry. As it stands the mechanic is greatly broken and leaves players traveling abroad no real means to defend themselves.

-Ironfield

Se7ge
05-02-2014, 12:10 AM
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................
Does Trion have rights to change some game mechanics? For example, safe zones. Here is my little story to summarize it:
• We are 5 Western friends, moving to East continent to deliver our quest. We are on a Catamaran (speed boat).
• One Eastern guy (enemy) jumps on to our boat.
• We cant attack him. (He needs to attack you first, because you are on their continent.)
• He starts to attack one of our friend.
• We cant attack him. (Only the player who getting attacked is able to attack.)
• He kills our friend.
• We cant attack him.
• He takes our friend's backpack and on his way to deliver it.
• We cant attack him.
• He delivers the pack, comes back and starts attacking to our other friend.
• We cant attack him.
.................................................. .................................................. ..................

a question:

in the case described, if the attacker uses a aoe skill and we are near to our friend, we take damage and automatically we can attack him???

Vuh
05-02-2014, 12:28 AM
I had something similar happen on alpha server yesterday, crafted a iron package by mistake and the only real viable place to deliver it for me was at an enemy city. I got there but got killed by guards(took the wrong entrance at first) But some random guy from the enemy faction took my package out for some reason and then proceeded to attack me with his friend, i somehow managed to kill both even tho they attacked me when i had 50% hp or so after spawning... Anyway since i had to kite quite abit to hp pot to win the fight, by the time i was back at the trade package they had respawned and one of them managed to loot it 1second faster than me and all i could do was just watch them deliver it and being unable to attack back.
A 5-1hr flaging system would have mad it possible for me to attack them back after they stole my package >_<

Zidanic
05-02-2014, 12:36 AM
From watching streamers it seems like the party can attack back half the time.
Other times they say its a bug thats not letting the party attack after one character has been hit. Hopefully it is a bug

AeonAuron
05-02-2014, 02:43 AM
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................
Does Trion have rights to change some game mechanics? For example, safe zones. Here is my little story to summarize it:
• We are 5 Western friends, moving to East continent to deliver our quest. We are on a Catamaran (speed boat).
• One Eastern guy (enemy) jumps on to our boat.
• We cant attack him. (He needs to attack you first, because you are on their continent.)
• He starts to attack one of our friend.
• We cant attack him. (Only the player who getting attacked is able to attack.)
• He kills our friend.
• We cant attack him.
• He takes our friend's backpack and on his way to deliver it.
• We cant attack him.
• He delivers the pack, comes back and starts attacking to our other friend.
• We cant attack him.
.................................................. .................................................. ..................

a question:

in the case described, if the attacker uses a aoe skill and we are near to our friend, we take damage and automatically we can attack him???

Yes. But they are not using aoe to be safe.


From watching streamers it seems like the party can attack back half the time.
Other times they say its a bug thats not letting the party attack after one character has been hit. Hopefully it is a bug

Streamers are not going into peace zones, probably?
It is not a bug. This is a system that is "working as intended" in every region of ArcheAge. If the streamers saying that it is a bug, they are wrong.

xDrac
05-02-2014, 02:50 AM
I think this system is flawed game design.
I'd welcome it if you could just slaughter the enemy faction regardless of where you find them or their level. Would this be hardcore? Certainly. But it would cause factions to band together to fight off invaders. Difficult times will encourage/force people to band together to fight off a common threat.

The way it is now, it's just wrong - if you ask me. It should at least be so that if you are in a party and one member gets attacked, everyone in the party can attack back.
I really hope Trion CAN change this.

Gank4Fun
05-02-2014, 03:05 AM
This system is alright and guess why?
Because both factions have to deal with it.
There is no advantage.
Just get enough healers and wait for a mistake by the attackers.
Or let them get killed by the guards ;)

Majeer
05-02-2014, 04:01 AM
This system is alright and guess why?
Because both factions have to deal with it.
There is no advantage.
Just get enough healers and wait for a mistake by the attackers.
Or let them get killed by the guards ;)

That's terrible logic.

"Everyone has to deal with a bad gameplay design so it's ok!"

Being complacent about things like this is why some games never improve.

Yuniel
05-02-2014, 04:17 AM
Agreed. The way it is now is simply wrong.

If an enemy attacks, he needs to be flagged, as in everybody is able to attack him.

Socratic
05-02-2014, 04:45 AM
Agreed. The way it is now is simply wrong.

If an enemy attacks, he needs to be flagged, as in everybody is able to attack him.
http://i.imgur.com/YbJIX8K.gif

Guyver
05-02-2014, 05:20 AM
Agreed. The way it is now is simply wrong.

If an enemy attacks, he needs to be flagged, as in everybody is able to attack him.

im not in game yet, only have beta access but this system does sound wrong to me and this solution is the same as every other game uses and works great. it should be implemented into archeage as well or people just wont visit enemy areas for fear of being picked off 1 by 1

CandyNJ
05-02-2014, 06:59 AM
http://i.imgur.com/YbJIX8K.gif

I totally agree because it is common sense

Alara
05-02-2014, 07:45 AM
So whats the point of being in a group when you can't help your group in combat?
If someone in your party gets attacked, you should be able to attack the attacker.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Alara
05-02-2014, 07:48 AM
This system is alright and guess why?
Because both factions have to deal with it.
There is no advantage.
Just get enough healers and wait for a mistake by the attackers.
Or let them get killed by the guards ;)

Oh, I agree the system can be circumvented, worked around etc.

But the point is we shouldn't have to. It's just unreal to watch a partymember fight and not being able to join the fight. That's no way to PvP. That's just totally unsandboxy unfun.

It's really not about advantages. It's about PvP being fun.

Seilky
05-02-2014, 07:54 AM
Oh, I agree the system can be circumvented, worked around etc.

But the point is we shouldn't have to. It's just unreal to watch a partymember fight and not being able to join the fight. That's no way to PvP. That's just totally unsandboxy unfun.

It's really not about advantages. It's about PvP being fun.

For a second I though you would say is about ganking the ganker, but really is unfair. If he goes agro so could you, equal rights to kill all the gankers.

Elrodeus
05-02-2014, 12:26 PM
I feel like the only way to circumvent this is to have active heals to throw on the person being attacked. I'd imagine with enough heals you'd either help him win, or annoy the enemies enough to attack you and add you into the fight.

I still think it's sad when a themepark game like WoW doesn't have this problem in open world pvp but a sandbox game does.

Princess Miyafuji
05-02-2014, 12:45 PM
Till now I thought ony people under lvl 30 are protected, that over that, if you invade the enemy continent, you can get attacked by anyone and you can attack anyone.

What I read here is completely stupid. OFC it needs to be changed. Anyone flagged = free to kill for anyone else. Attacking or assisting (buffing/healing) anyone flagged = you get flagged yourself. So simple yet why we don't have it yet.

This needs a change, now. Yesterday was too late.

Razor
05-03-2014, 01:04 AM
Yes, this system needs a change.
Everybody should decide for himself to flag PvP or PvE, problem solved!

AeonAuron
05-05-2014, 01:40 AM
This needs a change, now. Yesterday was too late.

Tomorrow is too soon :rolleyes:

Gank4Fun
05-05-2014, 04:14 AM
Everybody should decide for himself to flag PvP or PvE, problem solved!

Oh boy...

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/46201432.jpg

Gwethlen
05-05-2014, 04:29 AM
Loved some of the flagging exploits in other games, but yeah. You want to gank? Then be ready to gang up on the whole group or die.

Gank4Fun
05-05-2014, 04:30 AM
Loved some of the flagging exploits in other games, but yeah. You want to gank? Then be ready to gang up on the whole group or die.

Exactly this!
Of course guildless players come first ;)

Razor
05-05-2014, 05:48 AM
Of course guildless players come first ;)

Of course, always choose those without a chance...

FireCait
05-16-2014, 09:50 AM
Hey guys, we know that it's really frustrating not to be able to help your friends. We think that it would be a great change to allow your whole group to defend someone who has been attacked. We've brought it up to XL Games and it's actually a bigger task than you might think. They want to make it better, but it's a matter of balancing that with everything else that's on their plate. We don't have any ETA on a change for this, but we'll let you know as soon as we have more information.

Joey3155
05-16-2014, 10:03 AM
Ah I love this. More Blood for the BLOOD GOD!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Darth Futuza
05-16-2014, 10:06 AM
Hey guys, we know that it's really frustrating not to be able to help your friends. We think that it would be a great change to allow your whole group to defend someone who has been attacked. We've brought it up to XL Games and it's actually a bigger task than you might think. They want to make it better, but it's a matter of balancing that with everything else that's on their plate. We don't have any ETA on a change for this, but we'll let you know as soon as we have more information.
Yay! Please tell XLGames, on our behalf, that we will love them forever if they do it.

Joey3155
05-16-2014, 10:08 AM
Hey guys, we know that it's really frustrating not to be able to help your friends. We think that it would be a great change to allow your whole group to defend someone who has been attacked. We've brought it up to XL Games and it's actually a bigger task than you might think. They want to make it better, but it's a matter of balancing that with everything else that's on their plate. We don't have any ETA on a change for this, but we'll let you know as soon as we have more information.

Ignore this group, for the greater number of them are already damned. They are weaklings who refuse to spill blood in the name of the Dark Gods of Chaos.

KeksX
05-16-2014, 10:13 AM
Thouse are lvl 1-30 zones. If players want to fight they can go to 5 War zones maps. Don't waste your time on silly thing, just release the game please.

On Russian servers even War Zone maps are somewhat empty this days.
You don't get the issue, please go back to reading the thread before posting. Thanks!


@FireCait:
Thanks for bringing it up to XLGames!

KeksX
05-16-2014, 10:38 AM
Thouse are lvl 1-30 Safe Zones - if you don't understand the meaning of a safe zone, look it up in a vocabulary please.

You are still missing the point! So please read the thread again.

vidiotking
05-16-2014, 10:43 AM
This mechanic is dumb. Plain and simple. I can't even believe that this is by desing. How, why, what, did they make it so you can't defend a group/raid member.

SO LAME & GAME BREAKER.

Joey3155
05-16-2014, 01:14 PM
XL games is not going to waste time to change a game just so you can turn opposite side Farm Lands in to Storage room for packs. So you and your buddies can safely move around in a zerg, delivering packs.
If you want PvP there are plenty of maps to do it in.
If you want an Easy game, you should go back to WoW or something.

Someone who understands.... Yes, yes! Hahahaha!

Hahahahaha! All who die, die for the Plague Lord!

KeksX
05-16-2014, 01:28 PM
XL games is not going to waste time to change a game just so you can turn opposite side Farm Lands in to Storage room for packs. So you and your buddies can safely move around in a zerg, delivering packs.
If you want PvP there are plenty of maps to do it in.
If you want an Easy game, you should go back to WoW or something.

Everytime someone brings up "Go back to WoW" as an argument it already shows that the respective person is out of arguments. But anyway, here it goes:

This is not so that people can move around in a "zerg", the number of players in a group is completely irrelevant to the topic, this change needs to be made so people can trade properly, which the game requires them to do so. 1.0 even more since you have to trade to different ports for different kind of crafting materials.

Also the very first interconinental trading quest, the one where you get your big scarecrow, requires you to do go to one of those PvE zones.
Also, the east has two PvP ports they can trade to (Cinderstone Moore and Sand Deep) while the west has only one, Ynystere.

The game clearly WANTS you to trade there, but at the same time puts you at a major disadvantage, the west more than the east, due to the flagging system.

This is not about us wanting to PvP - this does not affect the PvP in those zones at all, if you would start reading what other people write you would know that - this is about people wanting to be able to properly defend themselves in an environment the game has given us.
This is not a "stupid change" or "wasted time", this is a broken mechanic that needs to be fixed.

Inform yourself before you make a fool out of yourself. And start reading. Reading is always a good idea, being in a forum and all.

Battlewrench
05-16-2014, 02:00 PM
More people need to trade to Freedich.

KeksX
05-16-2014, 02:13 PM
I think it should be made harder. You are travelling to an Enemy City afterall. They should add some guards that you have to kill in order to deliver a pack.


This has nothing to do with difficulty though - difficulty implies that you can work against this. But you can literally do nothing but watch. A
I don't want easy access at all, I just want access without watching my mates die to a group of 10 Lv50s while on a perfectly legit trade.

The difficulty will come on its own, with the increased traffic to these ports and more enemies that know that.

Elrodeus
05-16-2014, 03:18 PM
I keep coming into this thread and see people arguing points that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. These same people will only truly realize what this topic is about when they're on a trade run and in a group of 15 friends for safety, only to have a single player kill them and all their friends without any of them being able to defend themselves.

The reading comprehension of this community sickens me sometimes.

xDrac
05-16-2014, 03:26 PM
Lets see what you can do:
1) Come back at later time, when there are no enemy players.
2) Run to the Neutral guards.
3) Use stealth to enter unnoticed.
4) If runing packs is everything you ever wanted to do in the game, pick a low populated server.

I think you really don't realise that you are entering an Enemy port/city. It is not suppose to be easy.

You should thank XL games that they were carebear enough to put Neutral guards there, instead of locals.
I really don't think you understand a whole lot about the game... How is it fair, that people can pick out whatever enemy target they like, and only that target can fight back while his group has to watch him get slaughtered? That's just flawed game design. Sure, with even levels it might not be that much of an issue, but imagine a level 30 turning in a pack and getting attacked by a level 50 who was just waiting for him.

Just, no.

KeksX
05-16-2014, 03:41 PM
Lets see what you can do:
1) Come back at later time, when there are no enemy players.
2) Run to the Neutral guards.
3) Use stealth to enter unnoticed.
4) If runing packs is everything you ever wanted to do in the game, pick a low populated server.

I think you really don't realise that you are entering an Enemy port/city. It is not suppose to be easy.

You should thank XL games that they were carebear enough to put Neutral guards there, instead of locals.

1) You're past the point of no return in those situations.
2) You'll lose all your packages then anyway
3) Pretty hard to stealth a tradeship...
4) No argument at all, this is not what this is about.

If it's an enemy port/city, why can I trade there? The rest of the land is clearly hostile, but this is about the port. And how come only the west has to deal with two of those while the east has two pvp ports to go to?

Also, neutral guards have nothing to do with "carebear". Using the word in this context is completely offtopic.

I'm gonna go ahead and say it: You lack basic understanding of what this game is about. Pretty weird for someone that played on the russian server.

Volomon
05-16-2014, 04:30 PM
Lets see what you can do:
1) Come back at later time, when there are no enemy players.
2) Run to the Neutral guards.
3) Use stealth to enter unnoticed.
4) If runing packs is everything you ever wanted to do in the game, pick a low populated server.

I think you really don't realise that you are entering an Enemy port/city. It is not suppose to be easy.

You should thank XL games that they were carebear enough to put Neutral guards there, instead of locals.

I agree, but the other guy is right. There should always BE MORE options not less options. People shouldn't have to run, shouldn't have to pick up stealth, people should be able to stand there ground it's open PVP, if they die that is the option they picked and their mates should be able to help out. This ain't metal gear solid.

Simply put attacking another player in your continent should open you up to PVP from the other faction simple as that. Unless your scared of PVP not being easy enough for you?

Maquiame
05-16-2014, 04:38 PM
I keep coming into this thread and see people arguing points that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. These same people will only truly realize what this topic is about when they're on a trade run and in a group of 15 friends for safety, only to have a single player kill them and all their friends without any of them being able to defend themselves.

The reading comprehension of this community sickens me sometimes.


Agreed

Its like the collective IQ and reading skill is in the negatives for some of these responses

Let me put this slow for some of you

You and twenty of your friends have just decided to hit a club in another part of town, right before you enter the club one of your friends gets jumped by another group. Due to police intervention you and the rest of your buddies are restrained from helping your friend and have to sit and watch as he is murdered right in front of you.

That is what this thread is trying to say.

So someone please explain to me how someone getting killed in front of their friends who can't defend them and wanting to change that is carebear?


Make your case, and please as hard as it may be do it intelligently.

Take your time.

Maquiame
05-16-2014, 04:55 PM
First you talk about IQ, and then you start comparing Video Game with a Real Life? You should get out more.

The analogy mimics what the OP is talking about. Since people seem to not be getting what the OP is talking about I changed it to something that is more easily understandable.

I hope...

Maquiame
05-16-2014, 04:57 PM
This game is not an Open PvP game - it has Open PvP zones, and it has Safe Zones - that is the core design of the game.

If you don't like it, don't play it. Pick something else to play. Asking Devs to change a core design of a game just because you don't like it will delay the release of NA/EU. Or totaly will make it totaly impossible.

In an open pvp game everyone should be able to fight back correct? Wouldn't this include being able to defend friends getting attacked?

What's wrong with wanting to be able to defend a friend getting attacked if you are all in a group? Are you saying that groups should not be able to defend friends in these situations?

Elrodeus
05-16-2014, 05:12 PM
Your friends die, because they try to ingore the rules of the game.
Please enlighten me. What rule are we ignoring? I'd love to see this rule.
We are simply turning in trade packs to the port that is paying us the most money for our trade packs. What rule in the game told us not to go there?

skullhead51
05-16-2014, 05:19 PM
Yeah I think pvping in any situation like that should flag them globally for pvp with a timer. It is just silly when it only unlocks pvp to the person being attacked. This just allows a lot of ganging up and picking people off 1 by 1. If nothing is done to fix this, group travel will be pointless in the other continent. It would make any foreigners the hunted in the way that they can't fight back properly.

Brutus
05-16-2014, 05:24 PM
You have no business being in the enemy faction safe zone .

Elrodeus
05-16-2014, 05:37 PM
Rule of a Safe Zone - You can't attack Opposite faction players unless you have been attacked first.

Excellent thank you for clarification!! So if I'm in the safe zone and I get attacked by the opposite faction then me and my friends can attack him because he attacked first right?

Right???

Joey3155
05-16-2014, 06:04 PM
Excellent thank you for clarification!! So if I'm in the safe zone and I get attacked by the opposite faction then me and my friends can attack him because he attacked first right?

Right???

From what I've been reading only the person who was attacked gets kill rights you would have to sit back and watch your friend die. Hence the outcry.

skullhead51
05-16-2014, 06:24 PM
From what I've been reading only the person who was attacked gets kill rights you would have to sit back and watch your friend die. Hence the outcry.

Pretty sure that was meant as a rhetorical question.

Elrodeus
05-16-2014, 06:33 PM
I was trying to get her to an answer from Super Nova since she isn't even on topic. The game doesn't work like her imaginary "rule" stated.

Perhaps if she answers she might actually be on topic for once and we'll get a real discussion this time.

One could hope right? Surely she's a "responsible" person and already knew about this broken mechanic right?

tamerftw
05-16-2014, 06:38 PM
damn first time ive seen this, seems super unfair haha
personally i think you should be able to be killed/fight anywhere and everywhere. besides respawn locations

CeilingSquid
05-16-2014, 06:38 PM
You have no business being in the enemy faction safe zone .

You do if you have to turn in a trade pack there.

That's the source of the complaints. A particular trade pack run from West to East has proven to be incredibly difficult, because of this PvP flagging oversight. Even the most well-armed and prepared trade groups are fresh meat, because enemies can kill people one at a time without the entire group having the ability to fight back.

That's just poor PvP design. No risk involved for the attacker.

skullhead51
05-16-2014, 06:40 PM
Hey guys, we know that it's really frustrating not to be able to help your friends. We think that it would be a great change to allow your whole group to defend someone who has been attacked. We've brought it up to XL Games and it's actually a bigger task than you might think. They want to make it better, but it's a matter of balancing that with everything else that's on their plate. We don't have any ETA on a change for this, but we'll let you know as soon as we have more information.

Good thing this got noticed.

Let's all send them cookies for encouragement. :)

skullhead51
05-16-2014, 06:42 PM
You have no business being in the enemy faction safe zone .

You sir or madam have not played the game then. If you have, you should know about the 4th tradepack quest. You should also know you need to cross to the other continent and possibly into the safe zone to even enter their warzones or buy race specific mounts and continent/faction battle pet. I don't know about dungeons though.

Elrodeus
05-16-2014, 07:20 PM
Hey guys, we know that it's really frustrating not to be able to help your friends. We think that it would be a great change to allow your whole group to defend someone who has been attacked. We've brought it up to XL Games and it's actually a bigger task than you might think. They want to make it better, but it's a matter of balancing that with everything else that's on their plate. We don't have any ETA on a change for this, but we'll let you know as soon as we have more information.

ETA is not required. Most knowledgeable adults know these things take time to code and test. Simply knowing that XLGames is working towards a resolution is more than enough to make me happy. I'm sure it won't get changed before US release but it's good to know that they'll be working on it later after they fix other high priority issues.

Gank4Fun
05-17-2014, 03:44 AM
I dont like the fact that this is gonna be changed.
The actual system is so much fun. Picking one after another, a small gank here, a big gank there.
Wonderful :)

Joey3155
05-17-2014, 03:52 AM
I dont like the fact that this is gonna be changed.
The actual system is so much fun. Picking one after another, a small gank here, a big gank there.
Wonderful :)

I know but you know what. We PvPers can just team up and come in even larger numbers. Just to screw with them.

KeksX
05-17-2014, 06:00 AM
You have no business being in the enemy faction safe zone .
You do - the game even asks, actually DEMANDS, you to go there.

Martiger
05-22-2014, 07:11 PM
What! Damn this is really a gamebreaker :( I love to explore enemy faction zones. Sometimes with some friend/s and ofc we all must have the ability to defend and help each other if someone try to kill us! It's risky at it is to be in enemy territory. If they attack first flag them for PVP for all not only that group! This issue must be priority 1!

deathmaster35
05-23-2014, 05:19 AM
I really wish I had seen this thread prior to ordering the founder's pack instead of finding out about it in game on a trade run with my guild

Gank4Fun
05-25-2014, 08:43 AM
I really wish I had seen this thread prior to ordering the founder's pack instead of finding out about it in game on a trade run with my guild

Best advertisement ever! :D

Knautz
05-25-2014, 10:28 AM
This is honestly an easy fix, if you flag up and attack an enemy then ALL enemies can attack you aswell, and if you don't wanna die, don't attack them, simple.

Feathersalt
05-26-2014, 12:00 AM
I've thought about this quite a bit.

To start out with:


In a home faction safe zone, you cannot attack a home faction player.

In a home faction disputed zone, you must activate bloodlust before attacking a same faction player non-bloodlusted player.

In a home faction safe zone, the home faction player can one-by-one pick off entire convoys of enemy players single-handedly because of a ******ED game mechanic, provided that the home faction player is smart enough to only attack one enemy player at a time.

In a home faction safe zone, an enemy faction player can only start attacking / defending allies once they personally take damage, and then can only attack the home faction player that personally attacked them.


I've come to the conclusion that there are some easy ways to deal with this:

a. Bloodlust mechanic should on for 3 minutes once activated (3 minutes or until death, whichever is shortest), regardless of zone. This would be a change from the current game mechanic.
b. Enemy faction in a home safe zone should be able to attack those from the home faction who are bloodlusted. This would be a change from the current game mechanic.
c. Home faction in a home safe zone can attack enemy faction (as exists today).
d. Bloodlust is applied (or fresh 3min timer re-applied) to any player who damages a player that subsequently dies within 1 minute from any source. This would be a change from the current game mechanic.
e. If you are bloodlusted, your health bars should change to purple so that it's more clear.

Let's call this the Bystander Rule - If you are an Innocent Bystander to an enemy death in your safe zone, or any player death in a disputed zone, you're free to go about your business. If you have chosen to participate in PvP for whatever reason, everyone is going to know for the next 3 minutes (or your untimely death, whichever comes first).

Let me know what you guys think of this?

Also, regardless - Trion, you should get XLgames to implement keybinds for "Nearest PC" (same faction non-bloodlusted) and "Nearest Enemy" (bloodlusted or opposite faction player characters). I'm shocked that this PvP game doesn't have this already.

Rhoklaw
06-03-2014, 10:37 AM
Open world PvP sandbox games have been around a while. Most of which use a town guard system to protect new players. It created a very harsh, but realistic setting. What those games didn't have that ArcheAge has is criminal system with player driven justice. There are consequences for your actions in ArcheAge. However, where they came up with this system of players of one faction not being able to attack an enemy player who clearly attacked another player is beyond me. If anyone attacks anyone, they should become fair game to anyone, period. This shouldn't even be restricted to cross faction battles. If a Nuian attacks another Nuian, they should be able to be killed by anyone, including Haranya players.

Trekkan
07-05-2014, 07:27 PM
Is there any update on the plans to change this or not, etc?

AeonAuron
08-05-2014, 05:07 AM
Been a long time in this thread :o


Is there any update on the plans to change this or not, etc?

We just have this reply from FireCait, nothing else:


Hey guys, we know that it's really frustrating not to be able to help your friends. We think that it would be a great change to allow your whole group to defend someone who has been attacked. We've brought it up to XL Games and it's actually a bigger task than you might think. They want to make it better, but it's a matter of balancing that with everything else that's on their plate. We don't have any ETA on a change for this, but we'll let you know as soon as we have more information.

Juraian
08-05-2014, 08:15 AM
If you want a new pvp system, read this and vote on it. http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?23808-Suggested-design-for-a-PVP-system.

Crimsonredwolf
08-05-2014, 08:33 AM
I don't see why this wasn't an issue that was brought up when the game FIRST came out in Korea. I'm sure there were players there that ran into this and were upset and launched complaints. This to me seems like a big problem. Why not do an area of aggro? Meaning if a player attacks an enemy on his own land anyone that steps into the area of aggro is then free to attack him back. But it also means your tagged for a fight as well. If you don't want to fight...stay out of range. If you want to go fight, step inside the circle. Otherwise it is pointless to travel in a group to another land if you can just get picked off one by one. I'm sure this problem was brought up to XLGames long before Trion brought it up, I just think XL decided to ignore it.

Wadziu
09-22-2014, 10:06 AM
BUMPING

This has to get changed ASAP. Current System makes it impossible to do Gilda trade runs to other continent. Few gankers annihilating your whole party one by one and you have to sit there and watch everyone die and you cannot help. 2 guys can kill 50 people raid group - wow much sense.

Cryhavok
09-22-2014, 10:15 AM
There are multiple trading delivery spots on both continents. We didn't want to risk it with going to "Cuba" but well, that is not the point. The point is this ridiculous being unable to attack thingy.

sorry but I read that as "we could go there and defend ourselves but there wouldn't be as many noobs we were hoping we could steam roll instead of fighting people closer to our levels". IE you wanted to minimize risk bit get max reward and mad it back fired?

Wadziu
09-22-2014, 10:53 AM
That's not really the point. Its not like you could go there and kill everyone. Enemies would still have to be the first one to initiate a fight, they still have choice if they are 30 and want to fight party of 50's its their choice. But trading parties could have a chance to defend themselves. Now they CAN'T.

AeonAuron
08-05-2015, 11:04 PM
Time to bump it up boyos.


Hey guys, we know that it's really frustrating not to be able to help your friends. We think that it would be a great change to allow your whole group to defend someone who has been attacked. We've brought it up to XL Games and it's actually a bigger task than you might think. They want to make it better, but it's a matter of balancing that with everything else that's on their plate. We don't have any ETA on a change for this, but we'll let you know as soon as we have more information.