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View Full Version : Concept land overhaul suggestion: free placement



junweizhu
10-12-2014, 10:24 AM
As many people has come to a big problem where people hog land with small things so they can later build farmhouses when they get enough gildastars to buy it and some people just do it so less competition. This frustrates people to no end and I'd like XL to address this for the sake of those. For this reason I've come up with a possible solution: free placement with area housing/farming limit.

Nothing original but basically, we get rid of the zones and make it possible for any patron to place almost anywhere they like.(except on roads, rocky mountains, monsterspawn spots or near npc location/walking route) This effectively removes the frustration of no land to a more agreeable level and gives the player more sandboxy option for placing his house or farm.

Now we know this is abusable and could make the whole area too crowded, which is why I'll suggest to add limit to housing and farms on each area. The housing limit will be separated from the farmland limit so people still have chance to place a farm without worrying that a landgrab bot would spam houses everywhere, since houses is more of a luxury anyway. I'm not sure about farmhouses but I think that one will be listed as a farm, considering the amount of space it gives for planting things.

If XL games decides to use this suggestion to make a good housing/farming system, people will have a lot less frustrations and complains in my opinion and this will increase overall health of the game concerning farming and all of that.

TL;DR:

-make houses and farms placeable everywhere except important places;
-add limit to amounts of houses that can be built per map area;
-add separate limit to amounts of farms/farmhouses that can be built per map area.

Chellie
10-12-2014, 10:25 AM
Wouldn't happen. People would place houses in ♥♥♥♥ locations just to troll others.

junweizhu
10-12-2014, 10:27 AM
Wouldn't happen. People would place houses in ♥♥♥♥ locations just to troll others.

Like what places? They can put zones where farms and houses can't be built you know.

Silverthorne07
10-12-2014, 10:28 AM
I really don't want the entire landscape looking like Second Life with prettier random boxes scattered around.

Notolo
10-12-2014, 10:34 AM
Instance housing zones. The zones are way to small to provide space for the player base. Every Patron should be able to lay down a farm. ...how is this game a sandbox anyway.

junweizhu
10-12-2014, 10:35 AM
Instance housing zones. The zones are way to small to provide space for the player base. Every Patron should be able to lay down a farm. ...how is this game a sandbox anyway.

It's even less sandbox to me if it was instanced. Non-instanced is what draws me into this game.

laxe.dll
10-12-2014, 10:35 AM
No, for land to have value it needs to be limited.

Grimslade
10-12-2014, 10:41 AM
I think they should take the housing in the City, rent out the apartments, allow people to have indoor gardens as well as roof gardens.

laxe.dll
10-12-2014, 10:43 AM
I think they should take the housing in the City, rent out the apartments, allow people to have indoor gardens as well as roof gardens.


yaay to comie blocks

Ocho
10-12-2014, 10:56 AM
As many people has come to a big problem where people hog land with small things so they can later build farmhouses when they get enough gildastars to buy it and some people just do it so less competition. This frustrates people to no end and I'd like XL to address this for the sake of those. For this reason I've come up with a possible solution: free placement with area housing/farming limit.

Nothing original but basically, we get rid of the zones and make it possible for any patron to place almost anywhere they like.(except on roads, rocky mountains, monsterspawn spots or near npc location/walking route) This effectively removes the frustration of no land to a more agreeable level and gives the player more sandboxy option for placing his house or farm.

Now we know this is abusable and could make the whole area too crowded, which is why I'll suggest to add limit to housing and farms on each area. The housing limit will be separated from the farmland limit so people still have chance to place a farm without worrying that a landgrab bot would spam houses everywhere, since houses is more of a luxury anyway. I'm not sure about farmhouses but I think that one will be listed as a farm, considering the amount of space it gives for planting things.

If XL games decides to use this suggestion to make a good housing/farming system, people will have a lot less frustrations and complains in my opinion and this will increase overall health of the game concerning farming and all of that.

TL;DR:

-make houses and farms placeable everywhere except important places;
-add limit to amounts of houses that can be built per map area;
-add separate limit to amounts of farms/farmhouses that can be built per map area.

It's an interesting concept, but it would require a huge amount of changes to make functional. With Auroria coming, and further maturation of the land market, I would suggest that it's probably a bit too early to suggest any massive overhauls to the housing system. Still we'll keep the feedback in mind.

junweizhu
10-12-2014, 11:09 AM
It's an interesting concept, but it would require a huge amount of changes to make functional. With Auroria coming, and further maturation of the land market, I would suggest that it's probably a bit too early to suggest any massive overhauls to the housing system. Still we'll keep the feedback in mind.

Nice to see the a community manager take notice of this. I do know this is going to be a massive investment for XL games if they decides to greenlight this so I'll be patient and see where it goes. I think it's a good idea to at least mention this to XL games, seeing that they already have 2 years of information from other servers(korea and russia might not be the best way to look at since their people are more communistic than us westerners are, but good enough).
I myself have no problems with housing myself since I can make use of 2 8x8, 2 16x16, a 16x16 houseplot and a 24x24 built townhouse and soon an aquafarm(half are my friend's), this is more for those who do have the problem.

Avaritia
10-12-2014, 11:18 AM
I love to explore and when you get off the beaten path in AA there is tons of open space where there's totally nothing. No mobs, no landscaping, not even the random server generated node. Some of these areas are more than large enough for a couple of thatched farms (I say that because it's what I had on me to check for space) but instead they are wasted. Opening some of these would be good and would encourage exploring. Some are not easy to get to which to me makes them even more desirable. I really love the ones that you have to glide to then either portal out or slide down the mountain on your mount so they take most of the damage before you jump off to take your share. AA housing wasn't thought out very well. Unfortunately I don't see XL fixing it after they've been fine with it for almost 2 years.

MrJWalk
10-12-2014, 02:04 PM
It's an interesting concept, but it would require a huge amount of changes to make functional. With Auroria coming, and further maturation of the land market, I would suggest that it's probably a bit too early to suggest any massive overhauls to the housing system. Still we'll keep the feedback in mind.

Really? You think it's too soon to make a prediction that the land you release in a month is going to end up being picked up by hackers? You think that XLGames will solve in a month what they've been unable to solve in 2 years?

Pretty sure it's a race between Trion and Carbine right now. Which company will close their doors first?

Galix
10-12-2014, 02:17 PM
Really? You think it's too soon to make a prediction that the land you release in a month is going to end up being picked up by hackers? You think that XLGames will solve in a month what they've been unable to solve in 2 years?

Pretty sure it's a race between Trion and Carbine right now. Which company will close their doors first?

Maybe opening up some land like on the desolated mountain tops and those spacious islands that have nothing on them would help. Give players more variety of placing where they want their housing to go. This is a grid-lock game isn't it? Only points XL needs to change for housing is the ability for houses to be placed down at an angle. Can't take up two spaces if there's no angles. One issue out the way.

The other is the exploits that will involve some changes in the coding. Dunno how many lines of code there is, but the typical MMO i've played (Unreal Engine 3) had 10,000 lines of code at least or more.

I can see how Trion doesn't want to make any moves with the land right now with the up-coming Aurora patch. If things are changed at the last minute and then libraries/calls are missing, it might end up creating more problems on the servers in the end. Instability/crashing. Some of these problems are already present. If I were them I would request the ability to open up more land on XL's side.

Kinda wish the game was in it's full-state instead of all these removals/patches going on. We're still missing Auroria and KR has already had it. Yet we had Auroria during CB and it was removed. So what's the point, sides weening out the game?

I don't think NA is equip to handle wide-scale games like this.

shething
10-13-2014, 12:06 AM
Its just a little annoying how the zoning is laid out at the moment. There were so many times i could almost fit a plot except for a corner or something being just out of bounds and seeing all that extra space just outside of the zones that remain unused. Its bad enough to see all the wasted space within the zones because nobody wants some strangers house next to theirs. Since its already possible to plant unprotected gardens anywhere we want maybe we could make a way to buy land anywhere too. Maybe something could be done like being able to buy certificate for a certain size plot, then you'd be able to place that plot on suitable terrain making it housing/farm land then place the house or farm on that lot Even if it required higher taxes or property limits outside of the original zones, this possibility could make someone like me happy whom only wants a little farmhouse with farmland out in the middle of nowhere.

Phantax
10-13-2014, 02:31 AM
Simply add more housing and farm zones. There is plenty of space that really is completely unused and would make good development land

Starbuck1771
10-13-2014, 02:45 AM
As many people has come to a big problem where people hog land with small things so they can later build farmhouses when they get enough gildastars to buy it and some people just do it so less competition. This frustrates people to no end and I'd like XL to address this for the sake of those. For this reason I've come up with a possible solution: free placement with area housing/farming limit.

Nothing original but basically, we get rid of the zones and make it possible for any patron to place almost anywhere they like.(except on roads, rocky mountains, monsterspawn spots or near npc location/walking route) This effectively removes the frustration of no land to a more agreeable level and gives the player more sandboxy option for placing his house or farm.

Now we know this is abusable and could make the whole area too crowded, which is why I'll suggest to add limit to housing and farms on each area. The housing limit will be separated from the farmland limit so people still have chance to place a farm without worrying that a landgrab bot would spam houses everywhere, since houses is more of a luxury anyway. I'm not sure about farmhouses but I think that one will be listed as a farm, considering the amount of space it gives for planting things.

If XL games decides to use this suggestion to make a good housing/farming system, people will have a lot less frustrations and complains in my opinion and this will increase overall health of the game concerning farming and all of that.

TL;DR:

-make houses and farms placeable everywhere except important places;
-add limit to amounts of houses that can be built per map area;
-add separate limit to amounts of farms/farmhouses that can be built per map area.

I guess your new to MMO's. We don't need SWG style land placement there is limited landmass as it is.
Player City's:
http://www.geektown.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/screenshot0010.jpg


Harvester fields:

https://spacemonkeysdown.com/sites/default/files/pictures/harvesters.jpg

junweizhu
10-13-2014, 09:35 PM
I like how everyone who complained about there being no limited land didn't read that there would be a limited amounts of farms and houses in an area.

Elyos
10-13-2014, 09:39 PM
Not sure why these threads pop up.... XL hasn't changed this system in how long?

WestCoaster
10-13-2014, 09:44 PM
It's an interesting concept, but it would require a huge amount of changes to make functional. With Auroria coming, and further maturation of the land market, I would suggest that it's probably a bit too early to suggest any massive overhauls to the housing system. Still we'll keep the feedback in mind.

To be fair, I honestly don't think most of the players are going to make to Auroria. I think you'll find a lot of them leaving before that unless a drastic overhaul in the system is done. Far be it for me or anyone else to tell you guys how to run your business; however, if you want to make any money or this game to have any staying power, these changes have to be made much sooner rather than later.

Either that or introduce instanced housing which players can pay for, that alone is a much better system than waiting for Auroria to open up, which by the way, will be taken up by land hack bots.

Rigermortis
10-13-2014, 09:51 PM
The games real economy (not just the player economy) is built around land scarcity. The game designers have repeatedly stated they want patrons to compete for land.

The Apex system is designed around making the game economically viable without subscriptions. Land scarcity drives this. Land owners can afford to buy Apex for their patron status off the auction house. New patron players who want land will want to buy it off other players through Apex or gold which they can make off Apex on the auction house. Whether you want that to change or not is immaterial. The games free to play model is based around it and there is a massive economic driver for both XL Games and Trion to keep land scarce.

Bhargo
10-13-2014, 10:06 PM
It's an interesting concept, but it would require a huge amount of changes to make functional. With Auroria coming, and further maturation of the land market, I would suggest that it's probably a bit too early to suggest any massive overhauls to the housing system. Still we'll keep the feedback in mind.

I wish people would stop bringing up Auroria. It is not the solution to all our problems, it's just going to be owned by the big guilds and likely just as badly ruined by botters and hackers.

Also, the "maturation" of the land market is hysterical. What maturation are you talking about? The hackers taking all the land? The land barons owning 20+ spaces, sipping tea from their balconies and laughing at the peasants? The prices of even an 8x8 doubling in the past week?


The game designers have repeatedly stated they want patrons to compete for land.

There is no competition, hackers take all the land to sell at insane prices, legit players never sell because they will never find land again.

In a few months, there will be no competition, there will be the people that have land and will never sell, and the people who don't have land and will never find any. It will be complete stagnation.

junweizhu
10-14-2014, 12:32 AM
The games real economy (not just the player economy) is built around land scarcity. The game designers have repeatedly stated they want patrons to compete for land.

The Apex system is designed around making the game economically viable without subscriptions. Land scarcity drives this. Land owners can afford to buy Apex for their patron status off the auction house. New patron players who want land will want to buy it off other players through Apex or gold which they can make off Apex on the auction house. Whether you want that to change or not is immaterial. The games free to play model is based around it and there is a massive economic driver for both XL Games and Trion to keep land scarce.

What I was aiming for wasn't to increase the actual available land, but to increase flexibility in land owning and preventing land blocking without increasing the amount of potential houses/farms if everyone build everything in an organized way. I didn't research how many houses or farms can be placed with the amount of land we have now so I avoid giving any numbers as limit. Not to mention dividing the limit on farms and houses prevents people from hogging all land and giving others at least some chance at building a farm with equal chances. Selling farmlands would also become profitable.

Aeducan76
12-25-2014, 02:08 PM
Something like a month ago i would have agreed, i came before the "great crash weekend" and i was even able to gather a 24x24 + 2 Farm spots nearby before the crash happened - after which it seemed the server was less populated.

Agreed because i could not set a foot on my server (Nebe), i lost every demo fight and i though wtf - they canīt place that fast. Yes they can, without hacks. All it requires is a post-it and a quick finger to hammer the mouse button to oblivion as fast as you can. ( You have never played a vertical shooter in an arcade hall, right?)

The placement changes did not change that. You just have to wait until the health bar disappears and start clicking. Not wait 2 sec to realize it - you will be too late. I even managed it that way to win a crow spot against multiple bidders last night using my somewhat slow cell phone connection. So ping seems not an issue here.
I have also made free places for other ppl when i moved my home, free of charge demo and i instructed them what to do to make sure no by rider would take it... seconds passed and i thought "PRESS THE ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MOUSE BUTTON ALREADY" until they finally got it. Any half-awake, drug-using junkie with an ISDN connection could have snapped that piece of land away right under their nose, with hands tied up behind their backs, just using their nose to click fast enough.

It all comes down to reaction right now and the few clicks after. But it is a simple concept, everone can beat. And for those bots. Since you place on a EU server as i do - i never met a bot in field, maybe i was just lucky. But tbh - everytime someone places a house real fast everyone cries "Bot Bot Bot" or "Hack Hack Hack"

So i doubt there is truly a need for a rework.

That being said - land has to be scare and it is not - at least not on Nebe. Auroria has plenty of space and i know there are few reasons to go there, but it is still an option! And no one gets their dream spot right away. You probably have to waste the building resources on a house in an area where you donīt want to live - at least at a long shot.

This is the first MMO i have played since Ultima Online, which has non-instanced housing and that is such a big plus, i quit WoW instantly with its lol Garrison housing when i realized. And in Ultima Online land was also scarce, players camped several hours at house that where IDOC (in danger of collapsing) because the account of that player was no longer being paid for. You had no exact time like in AA.
Getting land is actually a piece of cake here - if you win the click war.

In UO it took me almost 1 Year to get a SMALL house, then i was upgrade to a shop which could be compared to a 24x24 almost 9 months later! I was so happy and content with it - okay some other guys got castles, but i was a dragon hunting blacksmith, that still could beat the ocassional PK from looting all of my equipment and my contents of my bag if i wouldīve been killed.
Life was great. And i only had a somewhat small house.

Patron gives no right to land. But the possibility to own it. And like it is in real life - nothing is shoved up your ... - you gotta fight for it and you gotta take it. I really hope they will not turn AA into a carebear fluffy everybody hugs everyone experience like they did with UO in the end, which took the game from the pinnacle of mmos to a shadow existence.

Itīs still out there - Ultima lives and land is still scare, even with fewer players. Nobody seems to have a problem over there though. And they too have a certain amount of population that is owned by gold/land farmers. Biggest problem on UO is gold inflation.

When i left 10, 15 dunno years ago 50k Gold was much - today 20 Million is something you keep in a bread box.