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Fook
03-21-2014, 04:40 PM
Hey guys,

I just wanted to bring up a discussion that would normally serve for beta purposes, however lets face it, a lot of us are either on Korean servers, or Russian servers. So, lets try to compile a list of weird bugs that you have run into, or unexpected implications of some actions.

Two examples of something I have noticed that I think shouldn't exist or should be changed:

- Melee combat is nearly impossible to do while a boat is moving; attacks that have no range will not hit as intended. This gives melee a big disadvantage when fighting on sea in general!

- Cannonballs have a huge arc! Cannonballs shot from a cannon, shoot nearly straight for at least 50 meters before they start to arc! This is a small enhancement request

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Edit #2 - Here is an up-to-date list of things I have read from the whole post that are relevant:

- PvP balances (rumored to be included in 1.0 patch; darn OP mages hehe)
- Melee combat on ships does not work as intended
- Lesser influence of daily quests
- Improved values for kill shares (PvP) I.E: Someone can just get the last hit on a PvP kill and get 16 honor for that last hit
- Fix map bug where party members sometimes aren't to be found on the map with their corresponding markers
- Additional character customization in creation screen (confirmed!)
- Guild population cap
- Reduce the amount of auction houses (not too big of a deal)
- Player run vendors/stalls
- Crafting system to include item decay
- Fewer safe zones (pretty highly debated against...)
- More PvE content (specifically dungeons)

I'm going to add these points to the OP; please express your opinions about these points so that I can change and edit as necessary and perhaps Trion will take a look! Some of the points are enhancements that will gradually come over time, some of these points are bugs/incidents that should try to be fixed ASAP on all instances of the game :)

Thibble
03-21-2014, 05:00 PM
I personally don't like the "labor point" system. It seems like a very lazy way to stop players from progressing too quickly. I'd rather be able to harvest freely (I think the timer for plants and trees are perfectly fine though) without worrying about how many points I have left.

Branwulf
03-21-2014, 05:01 PM
I personally don't like the "labor point" system. It seems like a very lazy way to stop players from progressing too quickly. I'd rather be able to harvest freely (I think the timer for plants and trees are perfectly fine though) without worrying about how many points I have left.

That would undermine the entire point of the already largely broken economy.

Mavol
03-21-2014, 05:13 PM
Less emphasis on Dailies! Bring back Trade pack drops to be fully dropped not just a percentage in pvp! Not sure how i feel about labor points yet i don't fully understand the system can someone here break it down for me?

Aaronjin
03-21-2014, 05:14 PM
well, an english translation would be nice

Thibble
03-21-2014, 05:14 PM
That would undermine the entire point of the already largely broken economy.

What's wrong with the economy right now and how can it be improved? I haven't been able to play too much of the game yet. I suppose I'm not completely against the point system, but it does irk me somewhat. It feels a bit too limiting, but if it's necessary, I can learn to deal with it.

Tres
03-21-2014, 05:15 PM
Removal of Labor Potions please ;;

xDrac
03-21-2014, 05:15 PM
Less emphasis on Dailies!
I'll have to definitely agree on this one.
I think 'Dailies' is just really lazy game design as well. Because once you log-in, you basically feel obligated to complete your 'daily' quest. And that's annoying.

Fook
03-21-2014, 05:16 PM
well, an english translation would be nice

From my understanding, English translation is already done in the Alpha. The only main issue mentioned on todays stream is technicalities (assuming infrastructure related issues) that is keeping Archeage from our hands. Among integration with launchers, stores, and other database related queries

King
03-21-2014, 05:17 PM
I figured Labor Points are the cash-in. So, being that this game is free-to-play they're going to be some sort of OP bs that nobody likes. However, feel free (someone) to explain so I can confirm or deny my own thoughts lol.


Less emphasis on Dailies! Bring back Trade pack drops to be fully dropped not just a percentage in pvp! Not sure how i feel about labor points yet i don't fully understand the system can someone here break it down for me?

Are dailies a big reward? Since if they're just an extra attachment to things you'd already be doing that'd be nice. Instead of it literally changing what you're going to do because you want to get every "big" daily.

Razgrim
03-21-2014, 05:19 PM
I really don't want to see too much changed. When Trion said that they were going to be "adapting" the game, I feared the worst. The whole thing that's special about the idea of Archeage here in the West is that we're not used to these kinds of high quality, refined Asian style MMOs. I get the feeling that attempts to "Americanize" Archeage will have combat portions of the game enslave everything else like they always have in Western MMOs, and have this game resembling RIFT in no time. Archeage is special (to us right now) because it's not completely combat/raid focused, and that's the way it should remain.

Anyone ever see TV shows like .hack and Sword Art Online? Notice how they have strong community, heavy player driven economy? Some players exclusively do crafting or harvesting. These TV shows have that because they were made in Japan, where the writers were inspired by the MMORPGs that do exist with these kind of vibrant communities. It doesn't always have to be a boneheaded rush to lvl cap, end game, boss downing, and super gear, which is unfortunately what every US MMO has been exclusively about in the past 5 years. Consequently, most players here don't know that any other style of mmorpg can possibly exist. You can make all elements of the game have equal content, so a player can have fun just building a house and banging on a tree. That's what Archeage is about, that's what will make it stand out, that's what will make it DIFFERENT.
If you can't compete with the other clone MMORPGS that all have the same basic endgame rush going on, make a new market. If Trion does attempt to "adapt" Archeage into just another boss rush, it will get beaten severely by the competition because the game was never meant for that.

I have really high hopes for this game, I want to see this hit the US like lightning, pull off a hardcore revival and bring this beautiful genre back out of it's current state of stagnation. You can't kill WoW at it's own game, but you can kill WoW by getting all the players to appreciate a different sort of game. Do your best Trion! And by that I mean trust in the best-doing of the company that made it!

Tourist
03-21-2014, 05:32 PM
I've been tinkering on the russian servers and the first thing i noticed a couple of things that this game needs:

1. The RIFT system of shared credit for kills. Too many people are content to stand around watching as other people die because they'd get no xp for helping and a "Thank you!" isn't enough anymore.

2. Some sort of visual indicator of which direction group members are in. The minimap shows a dot, but the map itself is poorly conceived, so keeping it open to track group members is a hindrance, imo.

3. We need to be able to have our combat pet and our mounts out at the same time. Constantly swapping is just tedious and annoying.

4. Movement while casting would be great. Having to stop and cast while the archer gets to run around lobbing arrows is a biased and tired mechanic.

5. Full invisibility? Seriously? I was shocked to see that crap in the game. It has always been and continues to be a stupidly op mechanic built for cheap, cowardly tactics.


As for things i'd like to never see:

1. Dailies. Those are an evil game killer!

2. Treadmill dungeons. This is supposed to be a sandbox with themepark elements. Funneling players into instanced dungeons for loot is the wrong way to go.


That's all i have for now, i'm sure there's more, but that's all that hasn't slipped my mind.

Xtt
03-21-2014, 05:35 PM
I would like to see Arena or battlegrounds implemented for competitive PvP.

Mavol
03-21-2014, 05:39 PM
I would like to see Arena or battlegrounds implemented for competitive PvP.

I would definitely not want to see arena or battlegrounds implemented whatsoever in any shape or form personally. This is what kills world pvp for me in countless horrid games in the past decade. Please i hope this is not considered.

King
03-21-2014, 05:41 PM
I really don't want to see too much changed. When Trion said that they were going to be "adapting" the game, I feared the worst. The whole thing that's special about the idea of Archeage here in the West is that we're not used to these kinds of high quality, refined Asian style MMOs. I get the feeling that attempts to "Americanize" Archeage will have combat portions of the game enslave everything else like they always have in Western MMOs, and have this game resembling RIFT in no time. Archeage is special (to us right now) because it's not completely combat/raid focused, and that's the way it should remain.

Anyone ever see TV shows like .hack and Sword Art Online? Notice how they have strong community, heavy player driven economy? Some players exclusively do crafting or harvesting. These TV shows have that because they were made in Japan, where the writers were inspired by the MMORPGs that do exist with these kind of vibrant communities. It doesn't always have to be a boneheaded rush to lvl cap, end game, boss downing, and super gear, which is unfortunately what every US MMO has been exclusively about in the past 5 years. Consequently, most players here don't know that any other style of mmorpg can possibly exist. You can make all elements of the game have equal content, so a player can have fun just building a house and banging on a tree. That's what Archeage is about, that's what will make it stand out, that's what will make it DIFFERENT.
If you can't compete with the other clone MMORPGS that all have the same basic endgame rush going on, make a new market. If Trion does attempt to "adapt" Archeage into just another boss rush, it will get beaten severely by the competition because the game was never meant for that.

I have really high hopes for this game, I want to see this hit the US like lightning, pull off a hardcore revival and bring this beautiful genre back out of it's current state of stagnation. You can't kill WoW at it's own game, but you can kill WoW by getting all the players to appreciate a different sort of game. Do your best Trion! And by that I mean trust in the best-doing of the company that made it!

^
This post needs more attention


Trion. Read this (The quote). Print it. And put it on the wall. Then take a photo of it and put it on every ArcheAge related employee's desk.

Mavol
03-21-2014, 05:43 PM
^
This post needs more attention


Trion. Read this (The quote). Print it. And put it on the wall. Then take a photo of it and put it on every ArcheAge related employee's desk.


I really don't want to see too much changed. When Trion said that they were going to be "adapting" the game, I feared the worst. The whole thing that's special about the idea of Archeage here in the West is that we're not used to these kinds of high quality, refined Asian style MMOs. I get the feeling that attempts to "Americanize" Archeage will have combat portions of the game enslave everything else like they always have in Western MMOs, and have this game resembling RIFT in no time. Archeage is special (to us right now) because it's not completely combat/raid focused, and that's the way it should remain.

Anyone ever see TV shows like .hack and Sword Art Online? Notice how they have strong community, heavy player driven economy? Some players exclusively do crafting or harvesting. These TV shows have that because they were made in Japan, where the writers were inspired by the MMORPGs that do exist with these kind of vibrant communities. It doesn't always have to be a boneheaded rush to lvl cap, end game, boss downing, and super gear, which is unfortunately what every US MMO has been exclusively about in the past 5 years. Consequently, most players here don't know that any other style of mmorpg can possibly exist. You can make all elements of the game have equal content, so a player can have fun just building a house and banging on a tree. That's what Archeage is about, that's what will make it stand out, that's what will make it DIFFERENT.
If you can't compete with the other clone MMORPGS that all have the same basic endgame rush going on, make a new market. If Trion does attempt to "adapt" Archeage into just another boss rush, it will get beaten severely by the competition because the game was never meant for that.

I have really high hopes for this game, I want to see this hit the US like lightning, pull off a hardcore revival and bring this beautiful genre back out of it's current state of stagnation. You can't kill WoW at it's own game, but you can kill WoW by getting all the players to appreciate a different sort of game. Do your best Trion! And by that I mean trust in the best-doing of the company that made it!


Cheers, absolutely!

SAO
03-21-2014, 05:44 PM
Putting more attention to this post ^ :D

Added TV show: Log Horizon

xDrac
03-21-2014, 05:47 PM
I really don't want to see too much changed. When Trion said that they were going to be "adapting" the game, I feared the worst. The whole thing that's special about the idea of Archeage here in the West is that we're not used to these kinds of high quality, refined Asian style MMOs. I get the feeling that attempts to "Americanize" Archeage will have combat portions of the game enslave everything else like they always have in Western MMOs, and have this game resembling RIFT in no time. Archeage is special (to us right now) because it's not completely combat/raid focused, and that's the way it should remain.

Anyone ever see TV shows like .hack and Sword Art Online? Notice how they have strong community, heavy player driven economy? Some players exclusively do crafting or harvesting. These TV shows have that because they were made in Japan, where the writers were inspired by the MMORPGs that do exist with these kind of vibrant communities. It doesn't always have to be a boneheaded rush to lvl cap, end game, boss downing, and super gear, which is unfortunately what every US MMO has been exclusively about in the past 5 years. Consequently, most players here don't know that any other style of mmorpg can possibly exist. You can make all elements of the game have equal content, so a player can have fun just building a house and banging on a tree. That's what Archeage is about, that's what will make it stand out, that's what will make it DIFFERENT.
If you can't compete with the other clone MMORPGS that all have the same basic endgame rush going on, make a new market. If Trion does attempt to "adapt" Archeage into just another boss rush, it will get beaten severely by the competition because the game was never meant for that.

I have really high hopes for this game, I want to see this hit the US like lightning, pull off a hardcore revival and bring this beautiful genre back out of it's current state of stagnation. You can't kill WoW at it's own game, but you can kill WoW by getting all the players to appreciate a different sort of game. Do your best Trion! And by that I mean trust in the best-doing of the company that made it!
Very true, mate. I second this and fully agree with you.

Preacher
03-21-2014, 05:47 PM
I am quite happy with Russian version, so i would like most thing to stay as it is in it, though seeing as this version will come with 1.0 patch, thats unlikely to be the case.

My major concern is Sieges - betting for sieges on auction house is imho flawed idea (need grind to get things and allows defending guild to exploit it, by betting with alt guild to "attack themselves" i.e. awoiding fighting). This should change to Sieges betting replaced with "honor" betting or other activity tied to PvP - i.e. instead of guild tha tfarms and bots most wining the bet: guilds that pvp and win most "wars" in zone wining. That would encourage actual PvP before seages, instead of pointless resources grind.

Wolff Laarcen
03-21-2014, 05:48 PM
Currently in AA the character creation in entirely lacking in diversity. I'd like to see WAY more diversity in character creation. It would be nice to have more hairstyles and skin tones available for all character races to create some unique looks.

Fook
03-21-2014, 05:49 PM
I've edited the OP to include Razgrim's opinion since it seems to be pretty popular. Keep the suggestions coming!

Sweetdeal
03-21-2014, 05:50 PM
Game have to be much harder, if someone kill you in PvP you have to drop Gear.

Same as they need to Cap Guilds, so not like Russia where Guilds have 2000 Players and instant finish the game in less then a week :P

Fook
03-21-2014, 05:51 PM
"Currently in AA the character creation in entirely lacking in diversity. I'd like to see WAY more diversity in character creation. It would be nice to have more hairstyles and skin tones available for all character races to create some unique looks."

I disagree with this, the customization that we saw on stream today had details up to increasing NOSTRIL SIZE for your nose. There are at least 3 pages of hair styles, multiple skin tones, etc... Always room for more, but it is definitely detailed enough and I love the character customization at this point.

Keltza
03-21-2014, 06:00 PM
Get rid of any system that restricts my access to game content and player freedoms.

Wolff Laarcen
03-21-2014, 06:03 PM
I disagree with this, the customization that we saw on stream today had details up to increasing NOSTRIL SIZE for your nose. There are at least 3 pages of hair styles, multiple skin tones, etc... Always room for more, but it is definitely detailed enough and I love the character customization at this point.I've played the Russian version for awhile. Maybe the Trion version is already changed, but there definitely need to be twice as many skin tones available and hair styles shouldn't be race-locked.

With the current system, the types of characters you can create are limited.

Nynx
03-21-2014, 06:05 PM
Hopefully Trion stickies this thread and uses it as a cheat sheet for decision making..

As for me, I hope they have strike team ready to battle the troves of bots that will be making accounts, spamming chat, and selling gold...

Palinore
03-21-2014, 06:07 PM
I would like to see the implementation of safe zones only being inside of towns that have guard access. Being able to loot another individuals kill but turn criminal and allow ANYONE to attack you for a limited amount of time. Implement a bounty system on murderers and pirates. Give the Noto-PKs a reason to track down and fight murderers and pirates. Don't ban PK's to a island but allow them to thrive any where they choose at their own risk. Keep dungeons instanced BUT allow these instances to allow ALL players to enter at their own risk like how (Asherons Calls) did their system. This allowed for people to fight together in massive groups but also be susceptible to PK attacks( This was an epic system ). Implement a more hardcore system where if you die you either lose high value items on your corpse or all items thus allowing individuals to ensure that they don't venture out with items they don't want to lose. With this allow us to utilize our houses like a bank. Bring the hardcore sandbox elements back to life, we miss them! ( at least I miss the old days of UO, AC Darktide, and SWG)

JemAs
03-21-2014, 06:10 PM
I would like us to be able to customize our characters bodies, not just facial.

King
03-21-2014, 06:10 PM
Same as they need to Cap Guilds, so not like Russia where Guilds have 2000 Players and instant finish the game in less then a week :P

This could be a valid debate point.

Shifted
03-21-2014, 06:19 PM
Get rid of any system that restricts my access to game content and player freedoms.

Would you be referring to FTP vs Premium restrictions?

Fook
03-21-2014, 06:19 PM
Hopefully Trion stickies this thread and uses it as a cheat sheet for decision making..

As for me, I hope they have strike team ready to battle the troves of bots that will be making accounts, spamming chat, and selling gold...

Keep in mind, Trion I do not think can make development changes to the game itself. They would have to go back to XL Games for any service requests and have them do the development work. But this is some good feedback

Caiser
03-21-2014, 06:23 PM
- No DelphicCoins for Dailies !!!
- Item Decay System !!!
- Higher Prices for Ships/Houses
- More Resources needed for Ship repairing

Palinore
03-21-2014, 06:24 PM
Don't force us to do daily for Delphic Coins. Gold is cool though.

Tourist
03-21-2014, 06:31 PM
We need more sliders at character creation. Making a wizened old wizard was fine, but couldn't change the body, so had old face with 20 y/o body. Even the elderly npc's don't look elderly.

Would also be nice to see npc's do more than just stand in one spot. /shrug

Tourist
03-21-2014, 06:41 PM
Just remembered somthing else.

Reduce the number of auction houses. Entirely too many. The cities are virtually empty as there's really no need to visit them. Such beautiful cities, so empty.

Splitwig
03-21-2014, 06:52 PM
What I would love to see (Game is probably too far along for this to actually happen) is the removal of auction houses. Instead give me vendors I can place at my house to sell my wares. Let the auction house only be a browsing system which only gives you information on what is being sold at what price and the location of the vendor.

xDrac
03-21-2014, 06:56 PM
You know what I would like? The removal of auction houses (not like that's ever going to happen if we look at it realistically) but it would really encourage player interaction...

Shifted
03-21-2014, 06:56 PM
What I would love to see (Game is probably too far along for this to actually happen) is the removal of auction houses. Instead give me vendors I can place at my house to sell my wares. Let the auction house only be a browsing system which only gives you information on what is being sold at what price and the location of the vendor.

+1

Whilst ArcheAge boasts a number of sandbox elements, I was slightly disappointed to discover I couldn't sell products from my home via a vendor of some sort. It would be a welcomed edition to the fact I can craft pretty much anything in the game and farm for my resources.

Sweetdeal
03-21-2014, 06:57 PM
Yeah Auction House remove would be amazing. It was non existent in the first Versions but then it got added for some statistics and yeah... that was the start of the End :P

Fook
03-21-2014, 07:47 PM
Yeah Auction House remove would be amazing. It was non existent in the first Versions but then it got added for some statistics and yeah... that was the start of the End :P

I think an auction house would be nice, but only at the main city of each continent, or the two main cities.

Gobblepuff
03-21-2014, 07:53 PM
AH is there for convenience. I think you guys that want to get rid of it are just being really hardcore.

Fook
03-21-2014, 07:55 PM
Hardcore is nice, but to a level. Having no AH would be a EXTREMELY big inconvenience. Having to travel to the main town to use an auction house is a mild inconvenience.

Apoth
03-21-2014, 07:55 PM
i hope combat is better, the videos i have seen combat looks slow and clunky

Fook
03-21-2014, 07:56 PM
i hope combat is better, the videos i have seen combat looks slow and clunky

I disagree there, and I'm playing with 160 ping. With 60 ping, combat should be pretty damn smooth!

Waifu
03-21-2014, 07:57 PM
I know that the russian version has a limit on how many players can be playing a race. I'm not a huge fan of that feature. I had to play on less populated servers to get the race that I wanted. I'd rather have the decision to play whichever race and whichever server I choose.

Gobblepuff
03-21-2014, 08:08 PM
I know that the russian version has a limit on how many players can be playing a race. I'm not a huge fan of that feature. I had to play on less populated servers to get the race that I wanted. I'd rather have the decision to play whichever race and whichever server I choose.

You're going to see that sort of restriction in every faction based pvp MMO for balance purposes.

Apoth
03-21-2014, 08:11 PM
I disagree there, and I'm playing with 160 ping. With 60 ping, combat should be pretty damn smooth!

as i said every video i have seen the combat looks clunky, SLOW and just downright boring. combat needs to be improved or revamped completely.

Palinore
03-21-2014, 08:13 PM
Having the ability to place player run vendors would be a great addition to the game.

KinGKaZ
03-21-2014, 08:18 PM
i want that we can move when casting spells-skills

Xpecto
03-21-2014, 08:22 PM
didn't read the thread so maybe someone said it...
make a market place instead of auction house, i really missed the games where i wondered endlessly in the market searching for a good price :)

Doctor
03-21-2014, 08:25 PM
i want that we can move when casting spells-skills

No, some classes need to be stationary when casting, or else we run the border of having certain classes be OP, because they can run and cast their big DPS spells.

Also, Labor points are built into the game. They won't be removed.
In the Russian version, f2p people get 1 labor point every 5 minutes.
P2P gives you 5 points every 5 minutes.

Personally, all I care about is stuff that is game mechanics. Keep the PVP as it is.
Unit collision is fantastic. I'm glad this will be sticking around.
AH is fine, no need to mess with that either. It neither makes the game better, or breaks it.
I would like to see more variety in the trade missions though..

Bread
03-21-2014, 08:25 PM
That would undermine the entire point of the already largely broken economy.

Branwulf why are you here? You always say negative crap on Archeage source and now you are here to open your miserable mouth........

Razgrim
03-21-2014, 08:33 PM
I'm not as informed as some of the rest of the players here, but I would like to see the best recipes and crafting materials NOT drop from typical dungeons. In an effort to allow the divorce of tradeskills from combat, Dungeons should only drop gold and medium end gear to do better dungeons, and recipes should be obtained from some equally difficult and rare tradeskill quest. This way your best foods, gear, etc doesn't require some kind of monster drop, fighting skills, raid group, etc. Theoretically, the skills and patterns to make the best weapons and items should be obtained exclusively though the relevant profession. Dungeon runners and fighters of whatever sort can buy their gear with gold, and killing monsters will be the primary source of money for the economy. Naturally you can tax it back on with vendor mats and such. If gold is mostly only obtainable in large quantities from killing, than crafters will have to sell to fighters and other players to get their gold, and now you've forced a player based economy.
That sort of system should allow the separation of combat skills and trade skills, allowing people to enjoy playing the game without being constantly forced out on a slaughter mission. Than you can see some cool player interactions arising, guilds based on tradeskill, players might be known by name for being a master tailor, because it's so hard to be that good.

Also, neat original idea, aside from it being really really hard and taking the majority of a players game time to reach a high or even max trade skill, have the tradeskill decay over time. That way you don't reach a stagnant point late in the game where everyone's "master" at everything. They need to practice it to maintain it. (Very hardcore, I know). Even better, you can remove the cap from these skills entirely and allow some kind of bonus, like less materials needed/more materials gathered for every x levels above soft cap. Maybe even minor bonuses to the items they craft. +1% bonus to crafted item stats every x levels. Combine that with the decay, make the skill decay rate faster at these higher levels, and you will actually have a system that will push players into specializing and staying specialized. (Although, the job point daily system might have to be lifted or tweaked for this to work).
This is of course an extremely hardcore system/suggestion and very radical these days, but Archeage isn't particularly known for being a casual game.

Again, I'm not exactly certain on what's already in the game, I haven't yet gotten the chance to play it myself ^^; But I read what I can find.

Edit: If it's too much work to separate out trade skills from combat by quests and other fun things, than make sure the dungeon recipe drops are not BoP, so they can then be traded to the appropriate specialist. << quickfix.

Doctor
03-21-2014, 08:38 PM
I'm not as informed as some of the rest of the players here, but I would like to see the best recipes and crafting materials NOT drop from typical dungeons. In an effort to allow the divorce of tradeskills from combat, Dungeons should only drop gold and medium end gear to do better dungeons, and recipes should be obtained from some equally difficult and rare tradeskill quest. This way your best foods, gear, etc doesn't require some kind of monster drop, fighting skills, raid group, etc. Theoretically, the skills and patterns to make the best weapons and items should be obtained exclusively though the relevant profession.
That sort of system should allow the separation of combat skills and trade skills, allowing people to enjoy playing the game without being constantly forced out on a slaughter mission. Than you can see some cool player interactions arising, guilds based on tradeskill, players might be known by name for being a master tailor, because it's so hard to be that good.

I love love love the first half of this post, and I agree with it 100%
But the second half I don't see flying. Think of all the people that will cry because they actually have to "work" on their character all the time.
I love the idea, but I don't see it becoming a thing :/

Razgrim
03-21-2014, 08:46 PM
I love love love the first half of this post, and I agree with it 100%
But the second half I don't see flying. Think of all the people that will cry because they actually have to "work" on their character all the time.
I love the idea, but I don't see it becoming a thing :/

I know -.- it's too hardcore for us on the west side, and would be way too dramatic a shock for the population. One can dream.

Apoth
03-21-2014, 08:50 PM
I hope they add combat or PVP points that are limited and are drained as you participate in combat or PVP. i mean why should crafters be the only ones to deal with a ♥♥♥♥ty stupid system?

VincitOmnis
03-21-2014, 08:54 PM
Bring back item decay

Razgrim
03-21-2014, 08:55 PM
In fact, I'm a very strong believer that nothing should ever be Bind on Pickup or even Bind on Equip, but you need to take good care to design the economy if you want to avoid some sorta abuse. It doesn't make sense in a realistic setting anyways, "Oh, you can't ever carry this sword, I already touched it". However, you might need to include some kind of item perma-breakage durability system to make sure that the game doesn't end up overflowing with legendary pants, because instead of people replacing them and the item going to vendor, it'd get passed down the line. Perma-breakage also keeps fighters dependent on crafters, woodcutters dependent on blacksmiths, everyone dependent on tailors.
Yet another thing that will further promote player economy.

Edit:
Ooooo, what about crafters tutoring crafters? It seems silly for every single guy who wants to be a tailor to have to run around and get a recipe for the same cloth hood everyone else already knows how to make. Perhaps there could be a way to teach other players recipes at the students expense? I have no idea. I'd say allow people to teach whatever to whoever they want, and they can charge the gold they want to charge, but giveaways could break things and get out of hand fast. Another cool thought, but I can't give a solid safe suggestion of implementation.

Luxeraph
03-21-2014, 09:54 PM
What I would love to see (Game is probably too far along for this to actually happen) is the removal of auction houses. Instead give me vendors I can place at my house to sell my wares. Let the auction house only be a browsing system which only gives you information on what is being sold at what price and the location of the vendor.
That would be nice but sadly it's not going to happen.

I'm not as informed as some of the rest of the players here, but I would like to see the best recipes and crafting materials NOT drop from typical dungeons. In an effort to allow the divorce of tradeskills from combat, Dungeons should only drop gold and medium end gear to do better dungeons, and recipes should be obtained from some equally difficult and rare tradeskill quest. This way your best foods, gear, etc doesn't require some kind of monster drop, fighting skills, raid group, etc. Theoretically, the skills and patterns to make the best weapons and items should be obtained exclusively though the relevant profession. Dungeon runners and fighters of whatever sort can buy their gear with gold, and killing monsters will be the primary source of money for the economy. Naturally you can tax it back on with vendor mats and such. If gold is mostly only obtainable in large quantities from killing, than crafters will have to sell to fighters and other players to get their gold, and now you've forced a player based economy.
That sort of system should allow the separation of combat skills and trade skills, allowing people to enjoy playing the game without being constantly forced out on a slaughter mission. Than you can see some cool player interactions arising, guilds based on tradeskill, players might be known by name for being a master tailor, because it's so hard to be that good.
So solo crafting? what's the joke of that? there are some materials that can only be gathered by some and that doesn't only apply to dungeon runners and fighters, if you can't get them buy them or even better make friends or join a guild that can help you get those mats you need.

Also for the second part of your post, I'm not 100% sure but I think you can only master 2 professions so pick them wisely.

Sirmilkbox
03-21-2014, 11:22 PM
A lot of what people have said in here are already implemented in the game.
What I would personally like to see:

1. Lower repair costs (ridiculously high)
2. Allow pvp in major cities, ATM if you go to an opposing factions dock for a trade quest you can't attack them until they attack you and if you are in a group and the opposite faction attacks your buddy he is on his own. You're not able to attack the aggressor
3. The mini map system can be improved upon greatly. You can't see who is who when you hold the cursor over their dot until you open up the map
4. Allow us to have our combat pet and mount out at the same time (so annoying switching between)
5. Need a more reliable way to obtain solar/lunar prisms . Farming dungeons for greens or farming mobs for random drops isn't reliable.
6. I know I will get a lot of haters on this one but I would really like to see some sort of battle grounds. I understand this game is supposed to be about world pvp but sometimes you will be online during the quiet hours and you could run around for hours in different zones and only come across a handful of people that you end up ganking while they're questing. I would like to have some sort of objective based pvp like capture the flag or king of the hill. At the moment in the RU version world pvp ends up being zerg pvp anyway.
7. I know it won't happen but it would be nice if they could do away with labor points for subscribers. I'm level 50 on the RU and when you are out of LP there isn't much for you to do besides instance grinding or running around and looking for people to gank or treasure hunting.

Helix
03-21-2014, 11:28 PM
1. Perhaps a pvp ruleset server
2. Less safe zones
3. Better / Refined Siege system.

Mavol
03-22-2014, 12:17 AM
In fact, I'm a very strong believer that nothing should ever be Bind on Pickup or even Bind on Equip, but you need to take good care to design the economy if you want to avoid some sorta abuse. It doesn't make sense in a realistic setting anyways, "Oh, you can't ever carry this sword, I already touched it". However, you might need to include some kind of item perma-breakage durability system to make sure that the game doesn't end up overflowing with legendary pants, because instead of people replacing them and the item going to vendor, it'd get passed down the line. Perma-breakage also keeps fighters dependent on crafters, woodcutters dependent on blacksmiths, everyone dependent on tailors.
Yet another thing that will further promote player economy.

Edit:
Ooooo, what about crafters tutoring crafters? It seems silly for every single guy who wants to be a tailor to have to run around and get a recipe for the same cloth hood everyone else already knows how to make. Perhaps there could be a way to teach other players recipes at the students expense? I have no idea. I'd say allow people to teach whatever to whoever they want, and they can charge the gold they want to charge, but giveaways could break things and get out of hand fast. Another cool thought, but I can't give a solid safe suggestion of implementation.

I like it, cool. Agree with all points.

ApocaRUFF
03-22-2014, 12:47 AM
In fact, I'm a very strong believer that nothing should ever be Bind on Pickup or even Bind on Equip, but you need to take good care to design the economy if you want to avoid some sorta abuse. It doesn't make sense in a realistic setting anyways, "Oh, you can't ever carry this sword, I already touched it". However, you might need to include some kind of item perma-breakage durability system to make sure that the game doesn't end up overflowing with legendary pants, because instead of people replacing them and the item going to vendor, it'd get passed down the line. Perma-breakage also keeps fighters dependent on crafters, woodcutters dependent on blacksmiths, everyone dependent on tailors.
Yet another thing that will further promote player economy.

Edit:
Ooooo, what about crafters tutoring crafters? It seems silly for every single guy who wants to be a tailor to have to run around and get a recipe for the same cloth hood everyone else already knows how to make. Perhaps there could be a way to teach other players recipes at the students expense? I have no idea. I'd say allow people to teach whatever to whoever they want, and they can charge the gold they want to charge, but giveaways could break things and get out of hand fast. Another cool thought, but I can't give a solid safe suggestion of implementation.

At least in the Russian version, no item I've come across is bind, either on pickup or equip. Except maybe quest gear? I will check here in a few minutes when I log in. Also, there is no perma-breakage on items, but they do take damage and it can be fairly expensive to repair them.

As for recipes, as far as I am aware, there are no recipe "drops" and you have access to every recipe available. To get access to the advanced recipes, you just need to be in the family of someone with a house that has the appropriate crafting station (or guild, if they want to open it that way). Or you can purchase crafting stations from mirage that can be placed, and they can easily be made guild-wide (or even public) without any kind of worry. So really, the only thing that is restricting you is your actual crafting skill, which you have to raise yourself if you want to craft. But, due to the difficulty, you'll probably focus on one thing and rely on others for other things.

Sirmilkbox
03-22-2014, 12:49 AM
I don't even know if there are crafting recipes in the game. As far as I've seen you already know most of the recipes. As far as the bind on equip or bind on pick up stuff doesn't really exist for the most part. A lot of the quest rewards are bind to the character but stuff like epics are not bound which is actually really nice. You can find an epic and use it for most of your levels and then turn around and sell it. Epics so far in RU still retain their price even though they could be second hand.

ApocaRUFF
03-22-2014, 12:54 AM
I don't even know if there are crafting recipes in the game. As far as I've seen you already know most of the recipes. As far as the bind on equip or bind on pick up stuff doesn't really exist for the most part. A lot of the quest rewards are bind to the character but stuff like epics are not bound which is actually really nice. You can find an epic and use it for most of your levels and then turn around and sell it. Epics so far in RU still retain their price even though they could be second hand.

On the topic of epics, except for extremely rare cases, most of the 'rare' items aren't even as good as the crafted sets of armor. For the most part, crafted armor is king and if you want to have "good" armor, you'll end up disassembling your quest/drop armor for the Lunar dust that is used to craft the armor :P

Razor
03-22-2014, 12:55 AM
PvE servers!
I donīt know much about the game but i know for sure i want a PvE server!

Kuro1n
03-22-2014, 12:58 AM
Harcore PVP servers, maybe including harder crafting and such. Less safezones in either way. Not the stupid themepark ♥♥♥♥ from 1.0 and such.

Blackout
03-22-2014, 12:59 AM
coding system :D

IKShadow
03-22-2014, 01:02 AM
Removal of peace time's.

ApocaRUFF
03-22-2014, 01:20 AM
Removal of peace time's.

Why though? They only last 2 hours and the only thing they do is provide a time for people to level in peace. Not like it removes anything from the game. They only exist in PVP areas, too. The open sea has no peace time.

Ezenkrul
03-22-2014, 01:24 AM
I also think it would be cool to be able to sell stuff at your house, though that would be a lot of traveling in some cases and for those who do not play the game....traveling can be a pain in the ♥♥♥. Teleporting costs a crafted item that can cost a bit of gold. ( unless you mean having the AH be at your house location instead of the cities. )
I'd like to see Peace Time Removed as well.
Labor Points can stay, it makes perfect sense to have them in the game.
I have yet to see ArcheAge be very dungeon focused. Some of the crafting mats can be a pain to get but most of them are acquired by gathering and hoping you proq on a rare find. The recipes after level 40 are acquired by buying a crafting station using and in game currency. The only issue I have with crafting at this point is the crazy RNG. I don't want it be removed, but I wouldn't be opposed to it. ( I think I would rather is be harder to craft in a sense of materials needed that it being done by chance. )
Probably more to add, but can't think of it just yet.

EisenSUN
03-22-2014, 01:36 AM
- Revamp the Crafting system to the state it was in Korean Beta with item decay. So much better of a system.

- Make Leveling and character development without doing grind and or quests more viable or at least dont pick up the 1.0 changes from Korea
- Maybe add at least 1 random drop from normal pvp kills

Galalynn
03-22-2014, 01:46 AM
From my side (I've been playing since the release of the Beta RU), there is not much wrong going on. The Labor Point System is quite clever indeed. While it makes you feel you are limited, it's only a good way of not abusing the system. You CANNOT grind your farm 24/7 and I think it's a REALLY good thing.

Game-play side, I find it really smooth. Animations are really awesome.

The only thing that sometimes gets on my nerves is the allotment of the mobs. While mobs got a really quick respawn (thanks God!) sometimes they are just be found in a really really tiny little area. It feels like the space is not used enough, as if the mobs where just growing here and no where else. You sometime see a group of 5-10 chars, farming mobs in a 2mē area.

Apart from that, I cannot wait for this game to be release on EU! Hurry-up already!

Mairaki
03-22-2014, 02:05 AM
instance renewal option should be deleted. it grants possibility fo const farm of akhium without any control(bots, cheats) and any interaction with other players.
the second thing that should be fixed is spells coordinates. a lot of spells creates fields, that use world coordinates as an anchor, but during naval and air combat. fields should be anchored to surface that they was casted on(deck, floor, zeppelin)

Mavol
03-22-2014, 02:12 AM
I also think it would be cool to be able to sell stuff at your house, though that would be a lot of traveling in some cases and for those who do not play the game....traveling can be a pain in the ♥♥♥. Teleporting costs a crafted item that can cost a bit of gold. ( unless you mean having the AH be at your house location instead of the cities. ) .

I'd love to see this as well. The travelling time is kind of the reward for finding localized vendors and differing prices. The thing that global auction houses destroy is this kind of trade. Its awesome to find a group of vendors in houses off somewhere that have great prices you try to then turn around and sell higher in more populated hub. The beauty of both UO's and EVE Online's system especially really made huge breakthroughs in trading careers in gaming for players. Love it

Nilv
03-22-2014, 02:31 AM
Less safe zones, Durability loss in PvP deaths, even honor split in party when pvping.

Jestahr
03-22-2014, 02:32 AM
Less safe zones more world pvp!

aerelon
03-22-2014, 03:09 AM
I'd like to see more areas open to house placement I know the idea is to form little communities however not everyone loves being in the hills :)

Branwulf
03-22-2014, 04:20 AM
I'd like to see more areas open to house placement I know the idea is to form little communities however not everyone loves being in the hills :)
There are a ton of places you can build, not sure what you mean.

Itaremustbedangeres
03-22-2014, 05:05 AM
I'd like to see more areas open to house placement I know the idea is to form little communities however not everyone loves being in the hills :)

there's enough space to place a house/farm. Heck, you can even build a house on a desolate island.

on topic:

NO PvE servers. Just offer the "classic" servers they have in KR/RU. Thus no community splitting will occur plus it really makes no sense gameplay-wise. (intercontinental trade routes without the danger of being robbed? Pirate faction = useless etc. etc.)

item decay needs to be in the game. (It already was at some point during the CBT4/5 in Korea I think, but got taken out for whatever reason)

NO Auction Houses. Seriously give me player-made shops akin to the ones found in Ragnarok Online.

fewer safe zones

no ceasefire.

and for the love of everything that's holy, please do NOT make grinding dailies a necessity to earn delphi coins

leave the explorer content the way it was prior to 1.0 (secret spots, exp, sister's tears coins, secret quests)

Tourist
03-22-2014, 05:06 AM
We do not need fewer safe areas. Not everyone wants to be gank fodder all the time. Some of us want to farm and craft in peace. There are already plenty of pvp areas, imo.

And with the stupidity of invisibility, ganking is about all there would be.

We do need fewer auction houses. They should only be in the major cities. My only experience with player markets is with early Knight Online where people had to set up a stall and just sit there, waiting for players to come buy their wares. Thanks, but no thanks. Sitting in a single spot all day is not my idea of fun gameplay.

And we need for our mounts to be a bit further back when on follow. I always feel i'm about to be trampled, especially in combat. Also, again, we need to be able to have our mounts and combat pets active at the same time.

Also for combat pets, their "auto-use" selection needs to remain active even when respawned. If i don't want them to auto use their abilities, i'll turn them off myself, thanks.

Kuro1n
03-22-2014, 05:11 AM
We do not need fewer safe areas. Not everyone wants to be gank fodder all the time. Some of us want to farm and craft in peace. There are already plenty of pvp areas, imo.

And with the stupidity of invisibility, ganking is about all there would be.

We do need fewer auction houses. They should only be in the major cities. My only experience with player markets is with early Knight Online where people had to set up a stall and just sit there, waiting for players to come buy their wares. Thanks, but no thanks. Sitting in a single spot all day is not my idea of fun gameplay.

And we need for our mounts to be a bit further back when on follow. I always feel i'm about to be trampled, especially in combat. Also, again, we need to be able to have our mounts and combat pets active at the same time.

Also for combat pets, their "auto-use" selection needs to remain active even when respawned. If i don't want them to auto use their abilities, i'll turn them off myself, thanks.
Yes we do, atm it is completely risk free to run around like a dumbass, dying should not be "whatever I'll just run back".

Also I would like that instead of simply sitting down to have a shop it could be done so you either sit down and you are logged out (offline shop) or if you are a premium you can have a booth per account that can be used to market wares.

KeksX
03-22-2014, 05:14 AM
The problem with these safezones is that they can be abused. The respawn points are abused on both ways(being used to hide trade packs, being used to block players from teleporting away etc).

The PvP-Free areas are abused by Lv50 players killing traders from the opposite faction. You can only defend yourself when you get attacked; when a group member gets attacked you can not help(except for healing). So the enemy can kill your group one by one while you watch.

Group-Flagging in safezones and the ability to Teleport as well as destroy vehicles on respawn pointns should solve this issue, imho.

Tourist
03-22-2014, 05:41 AM
The problem with these safezones is that they can be abused. The respawn points are abused on both ways(being used to hide trade packs, being used to block players from teleporting away etc).

The PvP-Free areas are abused by Lv50 players killing traders from the opposite faction. You can only defend yourself when you get attacked; when a group member gets attacked you can not help(except for healing). So the enemy can kill your group one by one while you watch.

Group-Flagging in safezones and the ability to Teleport as well as destroy vehicles on respawn pointns should solve this issue, imho.

While i agree that's a dick thing to do, and there should be fixes to this abuse, i do not think we need even more pvp areas.

Being able to flag yourself in a safe zone should always be an option, i wasn't aware that wasn't possible.

Maquiame
03-22-2014, 07:24 AM
I'd like that sole Nuian black male to be able to have access to some of those Ferre hairstyles

Krogger
03-22-2014, 07:29 AM
The problem with these safezones is that they can be abused. The respawn points are abused on both ways(being used to hide trade packs, being used to block players from teleporting away etc).

The PvP-Free areas are abused by Lv50 players killing traders from the opposite faction. You can only defend yourself when you get attacked; when a group member gets attacked you can not help(except for healing). So the enemy can kill your group one by one while you watch.

Group-Flagging in safezones and the ability to Teleport as well as destroy vehicles on respawn pointns should solve this issue, imho.

i agree with the group flagging for attacking a player but i disagree with being able to destroy vehicles in safe zones .... that is just wrong... vehicles being able to get destroyed in safezone affects more than just trade runners yo.. u gotta remember that.. dont wanna be in safezone with ur sweet car u just spent tons of money to make then go afk for a drink and come back to see it in shambles then have to spend MORE money to have it repaired. No ty lol

IKShadow
03-22-2014, 07:29 AM
buy2play :/

Razgrim
03-22-2014, 07:50 AM
At least in the Russian version, no item I've come across is bind, either on pickup or equip. Except maybe quest gear? I will check here in a few minutes when I log in. Also, there is no perma-breakage on items, but they do take damage and it can be fairly expensive to repair them.

As for recipes, as far as I am aware, there are no recipe "drops" and you have access to every recipe available. To get access to the advanced recipes, you just need to be in the family of someone with a house that has the appropriate crafting station (or guild, if they want to open it that way). Or you can purchase crafting stations from mirage that can be placed, and they can easily be made guild-wide (or even public) without any kind of worry. So really, the only thing that is restricting you is your actual crafting skill, which you have to raise yourself if you want to craft. But, due to the difficulty, you'll probably focus on one thing and rely on others for other things.

Guild crafting stations? /love. Glad some sorta sharing's already in there, thanks for the info!


buy2play :/
I'm perfectly alright with paying an entry fee, agreed.
(It's just a little scary, because a lot of these pay once games these days are made for you to get bored of them in under a week).

Vibe
03-22-2014, 07:54 AM
I'd love if they made crafting system not so RNG dependant

Expendable
03-22-2014, 07:55 AM
Full looting, less safe zones, and no safe times. Alternatively, a hardcore server with full looting, less safe zones, and no safe times.

Se7ge
03-22-2014, 08:51 AM
This game must be different from many others thempark, it must exploit his sand box characteristics (no daily, achivments ecc please)

i would like this game more sandbox-role play oriented possible, the open world is wonderful and the players must have the sensation to live in with their PG.

Personally i add:

. personalization of the body at creation
. a better disposition of the mobs in the world (i try Russian Game and they seems to be positioned completly casual way)
. more Dungeons and interior locations (Crypts, mines, Underworld...)
. a command to roll a dice (for role palyng)
. more experience from crafting and less obligation to follow the quests (at first levels too much trivial)

Final272
03-22-2014, 09:04 AM
The only thing i wanted changed from the Russian version is no dallies in the 1.0 update everything else about the game i love..

I already know they are adding more sandbox features so thats is always a + :D

OccipitaL
03-22-2014, 09:30 AM
I want Open PvP/K anywhere, anytime.
I may tolerate current PvP area system with levels and such, but I hate my hands being tied when I go to opposite faction's continent where attacking natives is forbbidden until they attack you.

Edit:
Please oh please don't implement that new commerce system where the one who steals goods gets only %60(not sure about percentage) of the gold and rest goes to the goods' owner. JUST DON'T.

Edit v2:
Let us earn Delphic Coins by trading not doing daily quests.

Copperfield
03-22-2014, 09:35 AM
I want Open PvP/K anywhere, anytime.
I may tolerate current PvP area system with levels and such, but I hate my hands being tied when I go to opposite faction's continent where attacking natives is forbbidden until they attack you.

this..

AA system is way to carebear.. its need to be open world pvp.. currently its timed zone pvp.

xDrac
03-22-2014, 09:51 AM
I want Open PvP/K anywhere, anytime.
I may tolerate current PvP area system with levels and such, but I hate my hands being tied when I go to opposite faction's continent where attacking natives is forbbidden until they attack you.
I agree with that as well. Enemies should be able to wreck havoc on the other races continents. Don't like it? Band up and kill the invaders!

Ultimoos
03-22-2014, 10:02 AM
I'd like to see accounts to be limited to one character per server, in order to prevent people making alts to steal land area.

Galalynn
03-22-2014, 10:04 AM
I'd like to see accounts to be limited to one character per server, in order to prevent people making alts to steal land area.

That what they did at first for Russian as well, but they found out it was too limited that way. So they end up giving 3 chars/account instead. It's fair enough, not too much that way.

Shifted
03-22-2014, 10:05 AM
I'd like to see accounts to be limited to one character per server, in order to prevent people making alts to steal land area.

This wouldn't work too well. Speaking from experience, I have a character I prefer to use for PvP/PvE scenarios, I also have an alt I use purely for crafting, farming and general trade. Limiting users to two characters per server is understandable, limiting users to only one character in my opinion is a bad idea.

Unforgiven
03-22-2014, 11:53 AM
I really hope they change it so you don't get rooted when casting spells. That mechanic is WAY outdated and will surely cause for a lot of complaining. Also the way labor points are accrued now without a sub is dismal. I get that they need to make money and I will be subbing anyways, but I can see it being an issue because people will want to do things other than combat, but won't be able to because they are out of labor points. also have to agree with those saying NO DAILIES PLEASE lol.

Oh yeah one more note I would like to see LESS gear dropping from quest rewards. We want to drive the market ourselves with crafting NOT from the quests please.

Baba
03-22-2014, 12:11 PM
I don't want huge numbers popping out of fights !

Yammy
03-22-2014, 12:20 PM
There's a lot of cool stuff i like on the KR servers, that i would want over on the Western servers as well. But there's also some things i would rather not have here, such as the Dailys. I've had enough of that with World of Warcraft, i rather there not be a Daily imo. Just make Getting Delphi coins through other ways, Packages is a fine way of getting Delphi coins if you put the time and effort into it. You can also gain them from treasure hunting, which is not as easy or fast, but I've been gotten 2-3 in one chest at times. Maybe implement different way to get them, but yeah not make them too easy. I wouldn't wanna see people sailing away in Galleons and Trade ship in the first week or so.

Tourist
03-22-2014, 07:43 PM
Invisibility just needs to go.

Maquiame
03-22-2014, 08:52 PM
double post

Maquiame
03-22-2014, 08:53 PM
Better hairstyles, access to Ferre hairstyles for the African American Nuians. Darker skin tones for humans, oh and that incredible character creation theme popping up alot more in the actual game. I would love for it to be mount music when you are riding.

And personally I want invisibility

That incredible character creation theme - can we has more of this please besides the cc? Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddOapmeczY

Impact
03-22-2014, 09:41 PM
fishing would be great, kr version has it but ru doesn't :/

Valdur
03-23-2014, 01:06 AM
Until now all the videos I watched I see only young characters I want to be able to make my character look older,a seasoned warrior,an old mage,a wicked witch/necro/warlock.

Luxeraph
03-23-2014, 01:10 AM
Until now all the videos I watched I see only young characters I want to be able to make my character look older,a seasoned warrior,an old mage,a wicked witch/necro/warlock.
You can already but sadly you'll have the body of a 20 year old, all we can hope is for XL to add body customization.

BikeMan
03-23-2014, 03:54 AM
All I'll say is I think most people were drawn to this game for the risk and reward. Trade run risks, of losing hard earned resources, risks of crops being stolen, houses lost, keeps demolished. I dunno why XLGames started cutting all of these risks out of the game... what is the point afterwards? Why systematically remove everything that made the game thrilling in the first place?

Steven Spielberg once replaced the guns in E.T. with Walkie-Talkies, deflating the potential danger and worry that the audience may have had. What it comes down to is when you excise the danger, you eliminate the emotion. No emotion, no memorable stories of elation from overcoming odds or crushing tales of loss.

A lot of us are here because games these days lack this roller-coaster and all unfolding organically from the hands of the players. Please don't neuter this game.

Fook
03-24-2014, 11:11 AM
Until now all the videos I watched I see only young characters I want to be able to make my character look older,a seasoned warrior,an old mage,a wicked witch/necro/warlock.

Yeah, I feel as though face customization is amazing, but when it comes down to the body, I think there is lack at least in terms of age. I personally like to portray myself as best as I can in character (im in my 20's :P) so I personally don't mind the 20's look, but others may want to play an older looking character.

Fook
03-24-2014, 11:13 AM
All I'll say is I think most people were drawn to this game for the risk and reward. Trade run risks, of losing hard earned resources, risks of crops being stolen, houses lost, keeps demolished. I dunno why XLGames started cutting all of these risks out of the game... what is the point afterwards? Why systematically remove everything that made the game thrilling in the first place?

Steven Spielberg once replaced the guns in E.T. with Walkie-Talkies, deflating the potential danger and worry that the audience may have had. What it comes down to is when you excise the danger, you eliminate the emotion. No emotion, no memorable stories of elation from overcoming odds or crushing tales of loss.

A lot of us are here because games these days lack this roller-coaster and all unfolding organically from the hands of the players. Please don't neuter this game.

Really cool point, you have such a great chance to create 'stories' or in other words experiences when there is a certain level of danger in those experiences. That' what makes for an interesting story, and I feel as though people can get really creative as long as they have the motivation to do so in game. A boring trade run with no risk from point x to y doesn't create a good story, now does it? :D

Ronin Daimyo
03-24-2014, 11:18 AM
please and i say PLEASE!! dont do this game too easy to lvl up ... it spoils all the fun that u have in lower lvls dungeons or group quest ... me and my friends quits other mmo's because it was too easy and in the lvl cap there was pratically nothing to do ... dont do the same mistake please

Fook
03-24-2014, 11:58 AM
please and i say PLEASE!! dont do this game too easy to lvl up ... it spoils all the fun that u have in lower lvls dungeons or group quest ... me and my friends quits other mmo's because it was too easy and in the lvl cap there was pratically nothing to do ... dont do the same mistake please

I think there's going to be a bunch of things to do at level 50. Leveling is only part of the game, crafting, making money, getting delphic stars, buying bigger and better stuff is what will take a bunch of time! Leveling, I can get from 1-50 in about a week. I dont think thats too bad, because i feel like at level 50 there will be enough content to last quite a while!

Steelwind
03-24-2014, 01:04 PM
1. Do not implement the Delphi (dailies) change. To avoid the inflation issue that KR experienced that caused XL to change this, move Dephi rewards to ENEMY territory only as trade rewards.
2. Add world contested dungeon (like DaOC Darkness Falls).
3. Greatly expand on underwater content.
4. Add trading to the northern contentant.
5. Add player created plazas (implemented in KR)
6. Allow plazas to be built north.
7. Maintain trading for gold to enemy territories including liberty.
8. Player run shops

Artanthos
03-24-2014, 01:10 PM
I'm playing a game with no auction houses atm.

Interaction is.

1. I send a tell offering to buy the item for the price posted in the forums.
2. Other players opens a trade window.
3. Currency exchanged without talking.
4. I get "t4t" as the only verbal response from the other player.

Removing auction houses does not increase player interaction. It simply simply acts as a time sink.

Fook
04-07-2014, 11:30 AM
Here is an up to date list of things I have ready from the whole post that I personally deem relevant:

- PvP balances (rumored to be included in 1.0 patch; darn OP mages hehe)
- Melee combat on ships does not work as intended
- Lesser influence of daily quests
- Improved values for kill shares (PvP) I.E: Someone can just get the last hit on a PvP kill and get 16 honor for that last hit
- Fix map bug where party members sometimes aren't to be found on the map with their corresponding markers
- Additional character customization in creation screen (confirmed!)
- Guild population cap
- Reduce the amount of auction houses (not too big of a deal)
- Player run vendors/stalls
- Crafting system to include item decay
- Fewer safe zones (pretty highly debated against...)
- More PvE content (specifically dungeons)

I'm going to add these points to the OP; please express your opinions about these points so that I can change and edit as necessary and perhaps Trion will take a look! Some of the points are enhancements that will gradually come over time, some of these points are bugs/incidents that should try to be fixed ASAP on all instances of the game :)

Senichiro
04-07-2014, 11:32 AM
i want to see the new airships on europe version

Fook
04-07-2014, 11:32 AM
i want to see the new airships on europe version

There are new airships? @_@ Wat.

fearNuke
04-07-2014, 11:33 AM
I would like to see this game stay fair for people that dont have loads of RL money to spend.

I would like to see it stay a team base game. Dont add new gears that allow people to solo the hardest pve boss's.

I would LOVE to see it open soon :D

SMP420
04-07-2014, 11:33 AM
Twerking emote

Senichiro
04-07-2014, 11:34 AM
yea they plan to make airships and you can be sky pirate on europe version ^^

Fook
04-07-2014, 11:40 AM
Twerking emote

There is a dance that is kinda sorta not really similar to twerking;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzDUZK8b2ZU

Be warned; includes half naked cat people shaking their body parts!

SMP420
04-07-2014, 12:39 PM
There is a dance that is kinda sorta not really similar to twerking;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzDUZK8b2ZU

Be warned; includes half naked cat people shaking their body parts!OMFG, This game has everything ALREADY!

I play the RU version but I have a male char. Didn't know females got (kinda) twerking as one of their dance moves! Similar enough for me, much appreciated!

/twerk request rescinded!

Fook
04-07-2014, 01:21 PM
Haha, it's available to both genders; press "k" and under the general skills tab there are 3 different types of dances. Try out each one and one of them should be the unofficial 'twerk' dance for your character!

.X.
04-07-2014, 01:24 PM
Allowing our homes to be shops would be nice. We don't have to sit and sell stuff, instead we can set up shelves and tables to sell things without having to sit there for hours ourselves. If we want to sit by our shops we can, but don't have to. AH is fine, but having anyone who buys from AH pay a S&H fee and anyone placing a item in AH to sell pays a tax to encourage going to local vendors or buying from that traveling merchant you want to kill but need to buy a weapon from first. lol

I know this will never happen, but I wish there was a smaller race (NOT like the elin in TERA, gosh no >.<). More along the lines of blade and soul lynn. They are not suggestive like those elins, they are just cute and fun to watch there puffy tails as they run. lol Or at least have a boob and height slider.

IA91
04-07-2014, 01:32 PM
I would like more cosmetic things like additional skin colours, Victorian costumes, hairstyles (something like Marie Antoinette would be cool for regal type characters), etc. But the core game I'd like it to stay the same

Fook
04-07-2014, 01:36 PM
Allowing our homes to be shops would be nice. We don't have to sit and sell stuff, instead we can set up shelves and tables to sell things without having to sit there for hours ourselves. If we want to sit by our shops we can, but don't have to. AH is fine, but having anyone who buys from AH pay a S&H fee and anyone placing a item in AH to sell pays a tax to encourage going to local vendors or buying from that traveling merchant you want to kill but need to buy a weapon from first. lol

This is a nice idea; its already implemented in Mortal Online where you can have a couple of things (6 maximum items at a time) for sale at your home, so that people passing buy can browse. You should be able to input some text, maybe maximum 30 characters to convey what you are selling and have a sign that shows those characters.


I would like more cosmetic things like additional skin colours, Victorian costumes, hairstyles (something like Marie Antoinette would be cool for regal type characters), etc. But the core game I'd like it to stay the same

I personally would like less goofy cosmetic items and more serious costumes, etc... As much as I love to see characters with buckets on their heads... yeah... no... I do however think that there should be an option to be able to take a weapon/armor skin from one weapon and apply it to another. Perhaps this could be a cash shop item that would be used. As most characters get crafted gear, everyone using the same type of armor (light/medium/heavy) kind of looks the same. Also, some of the cloth armors after level 40 just look like poop.

Sobekeus
04-07-2014, 01:37 PM
Get rid of Auction Houses or at least limit them severely. Most of the economy should be done peer to peer or at the very least through a vendor in a city market. Going out to a house in the boonies to buy armor is fine, but I do like to see flea markets too.

IA91
04-07-2014, 01:45 PM
This is a nice idea; its already implemented in Mortal Online where you can have a couple of things (6 maximum items at a time) for sale at your home, so that people passing buy can browse. You should be able to input some text, maybe maximum 30 characters to convey what you are selling and have a sign that shows those characters.



I personally would like less goofy cosmetic items and more serious costumes, etc... As much as I love to see characters with buckets on their heads... yeah... no... I do however think that there should be an option to be able to take a weapon/armor skin from one weapon and apply it to another. Perhaps this could be a cash shop item that would be used. As most characters get crafted gear, everyone using the same type of armor (light/medium/heavy) kind of looks the same. Also, some of the cloth armors after level 40 just look like poop.


I certainly would like to see less goofy items myself. They tend to detract from the visuals. But to be fair, Victorian dresses, hairstyles (such as Marie Antoinette) is very much so fitting. The game is very 'pirates of the Caribbean' style, in terms of pirates, canons, building architecture, etc. Some of the NPC's are even in Victorian inspired clothing. I guess what I'm looking for mostly is a more 'regal style'. Not to say that I just want Victorian clothing of course. I want to see universal inspired clothing. Like Arabic gowns to dress in when crossing the desert, kimonos and other ancient Asian inspired clothes for the oriental themed places, etc


The game already has regal Victorian clothing available, but it's the form of those ugly mullet dresses lol. I'd like to see something more traditional

.X.
04-07-2014, 02:41 PM
I certainly would like to see less goofy items myself. They tend to detract from the visuals. But to be fair, Victorian dresses, hairstyles (such as Marie Antoinette) is very much so fitting. The game is very 'pirates of the Caribbean' style, in terms of pirates, canons, building architecture, etc. Some of the NPC's are even in Victorian inspired clothing. I guess what I'm looking for mostly is a more 'regal style'. Not to say that I just want Victorian clothing of course. I want to see universal inspired clothing. Like Arabic gowns to dress in when crossing the desert, kimonos and other ancient Asian inspired clothes for the oriental themed places, etc


The game already has regal Victorian clothing available, but it's the form of those ugly mullet dresses lol. I'd like to see something more traditional

Wait like this?:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QjuzUIuGxF4/TLI4YM9VcvI/AAAAAAAAArM/pgEnIApkvuA/s1600/Marie+Antoinette+dress.jpg

How did that get through small doors!? lol Or you mean this:

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/515397383_1/Freeship-Renaissance-Victorian-Gothic-Marie-Antoinette-civil-war-Colonial-Southern-Belle-Ball-Gown-Dress-Sz-US.jpg


I would like to see international culture styled costumes as well. Ranging from different timelines to. Modern clothing styles to past styles like Victorian, to futuristic, to just plain silly (a guild atks you wearing nothing but pumpkin heads and a cape) o.O. Are the costumes gender locked?

VMBarbosa
04-07-2014, 02:42 PM
I definitely want to see the way Shrines work redone. If you're attacking someone they can run into a shrine and become to immune to all damage. If they were previously taking damage they shouldn't be allowed to become immune...

Roda
04-07-2014, 02:58 PM
The game already has regal Victorian clothing available, but it's the form of those ugly mullet dresses lol. I'd like to see something more traditional
I've never heard a better name for it, omg.
And yes +1 for 100% floor length gowns.
None of this obscene ankle flashing! *fans self*

Mavol
04-07-2014, 03:40 PM
Fewer safe zones, Removal of loyalty points. Implementation of Item Decay and tweaking of RNG values, Faction locked races removed, Pirate benefits need to be tweaked so its not overwhelmingly negative with no benefits to become a pirate faction, 100 percent trade pack dropped not 40/60, no f2p just a flat monthly subscription, Cars made to graphically look more inline with the other steampunk elements already in the game

yomanation
04-07-2014, 03:49 PM
No LP potions would be a good start. It's seriously pay-to-win in a sandbox game where crafting is in the spotlight.

Mavol
04-07-2014, 03:51 PM
Get rid of Auction Houses or at least limit them severely. Most of the economy should be done peer to peer or at the very least through a vendor in a city market. Going out to a house in the boonies to buy armor is fine, but I do like to see flea markets too.

Agreed, nice

.X.
04-07-2014, 03:59 PM
None of this obscene ankle flashing! *fans self*

lol


Pirate benefits need to be tweaked so its not overwhelmingly negative with no benefits to become a pirate faction & Cars made to graphically look more inline with the other steampunk elements already in the game

Agreed on the pirates not really sure what could be done, but I do think that feature could use some help. Many people like the idea of being a pirate, so it does not need a incentive. However it does need something to make people stay pirates while keeping everything balanced.

I would complain about the cars, but I was wondering if in future content will we be able to build futuristic cities, or is everything in terms of building just going to stay within the old era?

Grey
04-07-2014, 04:10 PM
Honestly I cant say anything, because I, like a lot of other players here in this thread and on this forum have never played the game. So the only thing I will want changed is simply translations and more added western character features for customization. When the game comes out and their is something I dislike and is running gameplay then I will post on the forums about this. But not until then.

Slyndria
04-07-2014, 08:10 PM
So much great information in this thread! So great to read it all!

Fook
04-08-2014, 07:20 PM
I think some of the key focuses in suggestions should be operational incidents or mechanical changes; enhancements such as additional wardrobe options and customization can definitely be implemented further down the road, but they are still great suggestions that should be heard :)

shadole
04-08-2014, 07:33 PM
i would like the game to be unforgiving. like, if herd some rumors about people getting 40% when there ganked. i feel that when your ganked you should lose every thing. just flat out, all goods that you where carrying.

Scypher
04-08-2014, 07:49 PM
Faction lock is not good.

Avalon
04-08-2014, 07:54 PM
I've never heard a better name for it, omg.
And yes +1 for 100% floor length gowns.
None of this obscene ankle flashing! *fans self*

Yeah, Better clothing would be nice.

Noaleth
04-13-2014, 06:39 AM
I realize this is not a priority for some people, but for me: customization options for the body during character creation. If only a bare minimum!

I say, you have to keep up with the competition. Most contemporary games offer body customization of some sorts; TESO, Guild Wars 2, and even Wildstar recently announced they are adding in body options, due to player feedback (even after stating they wouldn't). Apparently players want it :) I would already be happy with a basic height sliders and a few body types (like GW2). And as others also mentioned: skin colors, hairstyles. The more diversity and options, the better!

Also, I heard custom emotes using /e, /em, /me weren't in yet. This is something I would love to see as well.

Kaeli
04-13-2014, 07:06 AM
- Guild population cap


I disagree with this one. One of the most limiting things I have seen in most games is the cap on guilds. It doesn't do what developers want it to do because all large guilds will do is have multiple guilds, so why limit guilds at all. One way to help large guilds is to have guilds set up by account instead of by character (similar to GW2).

I am part of a very large guild that just wants to be in a guild together, not spread out over multiple guilds.

Snowyamur
04-13-2014, 05:06 PM
I personally don't like the "labor point" system. It seems like a very lazy way to stop players from progressing too quickly. I'd rather be able to harvest freely (I think the timer for plants and trees are perfectly fine though) without worrying about how many points I have left.

This Labor Point system is like an anchor on the seabed, in other words, preventing players from leveling extremely quick. I would not ask to remove it, but merely to adjust it better suit its purpose in the game and make it more practical to the players.

Carratos
04-13-2014, 09:56 PM
I'd like to see the ability to establish tents or temporary structures in open lands to facilitate players who want to have a more nomadic gameplay experience.

Pony
04-13-2014, 10:36 PM
Wow.
I'm shocked by how ridiculous some of these wanted changes are.
Getting rid of the labor points?
Are you serious?
All I did in the RU version was farm and craft and I never ran out of the labor points.
Plus, without them, you could become a pirate way easier by just stealing and stealing and stealing without spending any labor points!
When you steal something that isn't yours you use quite a bit of the points.
So without the points, everyone would be robbing everyone alllll day.

Also, better armor and clothing?
???????
lol.

Orellian
04-14-2014, 05:50 AM
I don't mind labour points, I don't even mind paying the premium sub for RU. What I hate is the cash shop, from what I've seen in RU there are items in there that will enhance your character in a meaningful enough way to be pay2win.

The worst appears to be a labour potion that adds 500 points (usable once every four hours). The more you pay the more you play, I don't agree with that concept in the slightest and hope this changes.

Orellian

thundercles
04-14-2014, 06:06 AM
Offer an alternative fishing hat that doesn't have the giant shark on it:)

Rod Solus
04-14-2014, 06:50 AM
In game marriage, and viable tank role in both pvp and pve

utterchaos
04-14-2014, 07:11 AM
I would like to see the implementation of safe zones only being inside of towns that have guard access. Being able to loot another individuals kill but turn criminal and allow ANYONE to attack you for a limited amount of time. Implement a bounty system on murderers and pirates. Give the Noto-PKs a reason to track down and fight murderers and pirates. Don't ban PK's to a island but allow them to thrive any where they choose at their own risk. Keep dungeons instanced BUT allow these instances to allow ALL players to enter at their own risk like how (Asherons Calls) did their system. This allowed for people to fight together in massive groups but also be susceptible to PK attacks( This was an epic system ). Implement a more hardcore system where if you die you either lose high value items on your corpse or all items thus allowing individuals to ensure that they don't venture out with items they don't want to lose. With this allow us to utilize our houses like a bank. Bring the hardcore sandbox elements back to life, we miss them! ( at least I miss the old days of UO, AC Darktide, and SWG)

I totally miss the 5% vitae penalty on a death and having to carry death items. Some of the best world pvp happened at tusker island on Darktide.

What i would love to see also is the tinkering/crafting systems similar to ac. So many variations of armor and looks, was so amazing. They were well ahead of their time.

Fook
04-14-2014, 09:19 AM
I disagree with this one. One of the most limiting things I have seen in most games is the cap on guilds. It doesn't do what developers want it to do because all large guilds will do is have multiple guilds, so why limit guilds at all. One way to help large guilds is to have guilds set up by account instead of by character (similar to GW2).

I am part of a very large guild that just wants to be in a guild together, not spread out over multiple guilds.

I can see why people would want to have a population cap for guilds as I like there to be diversity, even if it means having one guild have a couple of sister/brother guilds. Now, I don't think the cap should be anything small; but perhaps 200 people maximum. Maybe there could be a way to expand guilds with payment/achievements through guild members. I think TERA has a system like this, where there are multiple tiers/levels of guilds and you can level it up by doing stuff while being in the guild.

CasualDreamer
04-14-2014, 12:07 PM
I agree with you perty much. I think the gathering should cost very little out in the real world but if you are harvesting on a player created farm should call for Labor points imo.

jlindy
06-13-2014, 08:11 AM
Get rid of the cars, chronographs, and all things mechanical. If a car can be built in this world why not an AR15, airplanes, etc...? Silly I know, but a car is about as out place. Everything in this game screams fantasy, elves riding elk, dwarf, orcs and cat people. I wish I would have read closer before spending $150.00, because if I had known there were going to be cars and modern tech in this game, I wouldn't have bought it. Unfortunately, I doubt they will be removed, so I am afraid I will have to keep on searching and hope the new EQ gets it right.

I followed this game for a couple of years, checking on MMORPG.com every so often looking for when it was coming to the states. They always had it listed as a fantasy sandbox game. Never once did I read anything about steam punk. Not even sure what that means, but it triggers thoughts of the beginning of the industrial age to me.

At the very least, if they can't be gotten rid of, please limit them to the fantasy island place where you can buy house blueprints and the such.

Prepared
06-13-2014, 08:34 AM
Get rid of the cars, chronographs, and all things mechanical. If a car can be built in this world why not an AR15, airplanes, etc...? Silly I know, but a car is about as out place. Everything in this game screams fantasy, elves riding elk, dwarf, orcs and cat people. I wish I would have read closer before spending $150.00, because if I had known there were going to be cars and modern tech in this game, I wouldn't have bought it. Unfortunately, I doubt they will be removed, so I am afraid I will have to keep on searching and hope the new EQ gets it right.

I followed this game for a couple of years, checking on MMORPG.com every so often looking for when it was coming to the states. They always had it listed as a fantasy sandbox game. Never once did I read anything about steam punk. Not even sure what that means, but it triggers thoughts of the beginning of the industrial age to me.

At the very least, if they can't be gotten rid of, please limit them to the fantasy island place where you can buy house blueprints and the such.

I disagree with this as I like the game having more things in it. It gives more things to do and makes the game original because other fantasy MMOs don't have them. My thoughts are that things should be added, not taken away.

KeksX
06-13-2014, 08:41 AM
Get rid of the cars, chronographs, and all things mechanical. If a car can be built in this world why not an AR15, airplanes, etc...? Silly I know, but a car is about as out place. Everything in this game screams fantasy, elves riding elk, dwarf, orcs and cat people. I wish I would have read closer before spending $150.00, because if I had known there were going to be cars and modern tech in this game, I wouldn't have bought it. Unfortunately, I doubt they will be removed, so I am afraid I will have to keep on searching and hope the new EQ gets it right.

I followed this game for a couple of years, checking on MMORPG.com every so often looking for when it was coming to the states. They always had it listed as a fantasy sandbox game. Never once did I read anything about steam punk. Not even sure what that means, but it triggers thoughts of the beginning of the industrial age to me.

At the very least, if they can't be gotten rid of, please limit them to the fantasy island place where you can buy house blueprints and the such.

So Fantasy means "no mechanical things allowed ever!"?

Joey3155
06-13-2014, 08:56 AM
Progression limiting systems such as Archeage's LP system are put in place to regulate certain in game functions in the case of LP it is a economic limiter while at the same time having a secondary purpose of providing a cash shop incentive. Without the LP system people would be free to gather and craft without end meaning the market would be flooded with items that don't decay or disappear that much faster and the whole it takes a year to get full end game gear would be reduced significantly. The LP merely slows down one's approach of the Economic Singularity the point where market forces become so imbalanced that it becomes impossible to further regulate or predict their outcome.

In my opinion Archeage's LP system isn't effective enough. But here's the problem AA is straddling the middle point like a naughty girl so which approach do we go with? Artificial regulators like in Themeparks? Or internal player regulation like in sandboxes? If it's the latter I can tell you from EVE your just gonna have a lopsided economy. If the former then additional regulators and stronger regulators need to be put in place.

BastionDar
06-13-2014, 10:33 AM
Progression limiting systems such as Archeage's LP system are put in place to regulate certain in game functions in the case of LP it is a economic limiter while at the same time having a secondary purpose of providing a cash shop incentive. Without the LP system people would be free to gather and craft without end meaning the market would be flooded with items that don't decay or disappear that much faster and the whole it takes a year to get full end game gear would be reduced significantly. The LP merely slows down one's approach of the Economic Singularity the point where market forces become so imbalanced that it becomes impossible to further regulate or predict their outcome.

In my opinion Archeage's LP system isn't effective enough. But here's the problem AA is straddling the middle point like a naughty girl so which approach do we go with? Artificial regulators like in Themeparks? Or internal player regulation like in sandboxes? If it's the latter I can tell you from EVE your just gonna have a lopsided economy. If the former then additional regulators and stronger regulators need to be put in place.

But even with the LP system, won't the market be flooded with items that won't decay or disappear? It's not like LP is limited to only the people who want to hardcore craft/farm/whatever. Everyone has LP. Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong, but if there are 5000 players on a server, and the max LP is 5000, that's 25 million LP that can be potentially converted into market items (perishable and non perishable) every few days. I just don't see how LP is anything more than an attempt to monetize a currency.

Either way, if I'm wrong, and I very well may be, how do you add additional and stronger regulators without stifling freedom and gameplay?

jlindy
06-13-2014, 01:27 PM
In my opinion, they don't fit in this game. I just don't like mechanical things in the fantasy genre with elves, orcs, dwarves, etc...I just don't think they fit.

I have been waiting for a game to take the place of UO for almost a decade. A lot I have played have come close, but they have all missed the mark on one thing or the other. Everything I read and saw about this game had me excited that this one could finally be it, until I saw the cars and heard dance music serenading chickens on a farm.

Wolfhammer
06-16-2014, 05:43 AM
From my understanding, English translation is already done in the Alpha. ** Snip

Naaa it's not. I'm only level 10 right now but I haven't had any cutscenes in English yet...

Wolfhammer
06-16-2014, 06:32 AM
I would love a boob and arse slider please :)

Oh and the setting for hiding head gear doesnt work for me and also I can't see my cloak despite setting it as highest priority for back slot. Please fix!

I'm only lvl 10 right now so stuck in that Blue Roller Derby type armour so may be missing something...