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Morgana
10-22-2014, 09:09 AM
A number of you have mentioned that you're seeing gold disappearing.

As we broadcasted in yesterday's initial blast of rapturing hackers, gold farming bots, mules, and storage accounts, we're now also taking the step of removing the gains passed on by them.

What that means is: If you bought or were gifted gold from one of them, you may see it disappear. We do have the ability to trace coin, and that's the gold that's being cleaned up right now.

The best bet is to not buy gold - It's the same people trying to crap up chat with spam and trying to fill the game with bots and landgrabs. If you bought gold from one of those sites, you are absolutely welcome to try to go back to them for a refund, but we will not be returning gold purchased or gifted from goldsellers and botters. It's off in the ether from whence it came.

Dnq
10-22-2014, 09:10 AM
Finaly some action. I just hope its not to late

devo3176
10-22-2014, 09:12 AM
A number of you have mentioned that you're seeing gold disappearing.

As we broadcasted in yesterday's initial blast of rapturing hackers, gold farming bots, mules, and storage accounts, we're now also taking the step of removing the gains passed on by them.

What that means is: If you bought or were gifted gold from one of them, you may see it disappear. We do have the ability to trace coin, and that's the gold that's being cleaned up right now.

The best bet is to not buy gold - It's the same people trying to crap up chat with spam and trying to fill the game with bots and landgrabs. If you bought gold from one of those sites, you are absolutely welcome to try to go back to them for a refund, but we will not be returning gold purchased or gifted from goldsellers and botters. It's off in the ether from whence it came.

Then maybe you should shut the AH down cos there i got all my gold from, From selling stuff on there,

I cant control who buys it can i ? Yet your peoonalising me,

Jixjax
10-22-2014, 09:13 AM
This is interesting for many reasons. Would be curious to know:
- What about gold that's been spent or 'laundered' through legit means: buying land on appraisals, items, resources, APEX off Auction house etc.
- Sub-question to the above: will all of that stuff be removed if bought with 'hacked gold'?
- Will people be losing land through the hacks they've used to claim it?

This could have major impacts to the economy, help some, screw others (whether they bought gold or not).

AyrikaSoze
10-22-2014, 09:14 AM
---QFT
Then maybe you should shut the AH down cos there i got all my gold from, From selling stuff on there,

I cant control who buys it can i ?

Synthetic CK
10-22-2014, 09:14 AM
Loving this, but 1 concern: How far are you tracing it? If someone sold an item on the auction house, how would they have known it was RMT gold used to buy it? So friggin glad all my gold comes from trade packs.

Kyosji
10-22-2014, 09:15 AM
So if a legit player bought APEX with cash, then sold it to some random player that paid him X amount of gold for it, you are going to take away the legit players gold and not return the APEX? Is that legal?

Darklynx
10-22-2014, 09:16 AM
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/TheMissPelled/1-2.jpg

devo3176
10-22-2014, 09:16 AM
Loving this, but 1 concern: How far are you tracing it? If someone sold an item on the auction house, how would they have known it was RMT gold?

Thats where i got all my gold from, Selling worms and medinical power on ah Not through trading manually just placing on ah.

this is my complaint ATM, i have done it legit

Dinadan
10-22-2014, 09:16 AM
If they allow for negative balances, then the correct amount of gold can be taken out of the economy from the initial gold buyer, regardless if the dirty gold has moved hands. I've heard EVE did negative balances when they removed gold.

ironicsilence
10-22-2014, 09:16 AM
An official reply on AH transactions would be nice, I agree 100% if you bought gold from a spammer then you should lose your gold, however there are a few forum posts from people saying they have never bought gold, so If I post an item in the AH and a gold seller buys my item, will you take away the gold I got from the AH transaction?

Kiwi
10-22-2014, 09:16 AM
A number of you have mentioned that you're seeing gold disappearing.

As we broadcasted in yesterday's initial blast of rapturing hackers, gold farming bots, mules, and storage accounts, we're now also taking the step of removing the gains passed on by them.

What that means is: If you bought or were gifted gold from one of them, you may see it disappear. We do have the ability to trace coin, and that's the gold that's being cleaned up right now.

The best bet is to not buy gold - It's the same people trying to crap up chat with spam and trying to fill the game with bots and landgrabs. If you bought gold from one of those sites, you are absolutely welcome to try to go back to them for a refund, but we will not be returning gold purchased or gifted from goldsellers and botters. It's off in the ether from whence it came.

Awesome Trion! Cheers for all the good work :)

Galvorn
10-22-2014, 09:16 AM
We need more information on this...

devo3176
10-22-2014, 09:17 AM
yup thats right, you loose both

devo3176
10-22-2014, 09:17 AM
Awesome Trion! Cheers for all the good work :) What work? legit players are loosign money cos gold sellers buy of ah thats not good at all

Isin Dule
10-22-2014, 09:17 AM
This is the dumbest thing I have been a company do.

Ok, yes get rid of the gold sellers, botters and hackers!

HOWEVER

if you did nothing at the start to prevent these gold selling businesses to do business then you should just punish them, not the ppl who paid money to get a ingame item..

that's like cops only busting people who buy pot and leave the dealers alone..

the only reason you deleted gold from buyers is because it takes away potential buyers of credits through your marketplace.

Pyros2008
10-22-2014, 09:18 AM
Copied from my other thread:

A message was just broadcast in game indicating any gold or items traded/gifted in the game may be removed if the items were ever associated with a botter or hacker.

My question, what happens if someone used botted gold to buy by auctioned items? Do we lose our gold and items?

I'm not sure what Trion is really going for here. They seem to be pouring salt into the wound they created. I'm not going to blame XLGames at all here either, if Trion want's their name plaster at the front of every piece of this game, they can take the heat.

devo3176
10-22-2014, 09:18 AM
An official reply on AH transactions would be nice, I agree 100% if you bought gold from a spammer then you should lose your gold, however there are a few forum posts from people saying they have never bought gold, so If I post an item in the AH and a gold seller buys my item, will you take away the gold I got from the AH transaction?

Yes cos thats what has happened to me

Darklynx
10-22-2014, 09:18 AM
they cant do jack ♥♥♥♥ about that. xD I guess they only trace what happened the last 24 hours and remove that. They would need to reset the servers back if they would do it like they said. Trace coins my ♥♥♥. /).-

devo3176
10-22-2014, 09:19 AM
they cant do jack ♥♥♥♥ about that. xD I guess they only trace what happened the last 24 hours and remove that. They would need to reset the servers back if they would do it like they said. Trace coins my ♥♥♥. /).- i've not played much for about the last 4 days i have hardly used the ah since friday so they have traced it back further than that

Chainers
10-22-2014, 09:19 AM
Yea can we get some clarification on that? It would be a shame to lose all my gold because of someone else's actions.

All though I do agree with deleting duped/illegitimate items, what about those of us who farmed, and bought items/sold for gold that were illegitimately obtained?

theshadow99
10-22-2014, 09:19 AM
We have already seen examples and while the gold is reversed. Otherwise valid trades seem to be reversed in one direction (the gold is removed), but the item sold is not. If this is true, then you seem to be punishing a lot of innocent people who are craters or materials merchants. I cannot guarantee someone that buys from me is not cheating to get that money, so punishing if I get punished by this that is rather silly. I can see reversing transactions, but don't do them on one side.

bmw
10-22-2014, 09:20 AM
So how will it work if you bought something from the AH from a goldseller.....will you get your gold back?? I highly doubt that.

devo3176
10-22-2014, 09:20 AM
Morganna can we get more information on this? inocent players are being peoonalised

LuapYllier
10-22-2014, 09:21 AM
I believe Morgana needs to clarify the details of how far the trace goes. Many people earn money through AH...they would have no idea where that gold has come from. Removing it could be catastrophic. Hell just personal trades for expensive armor, land, carrot dash or thunderstrucks...the seller has legit items of value and no knowledge of the buyers source of gold. This is going to hurt a lot of legit players.

Ashrahm
10-22-2014, 09:21 AM
I had posted this in another thread.

Example: Tom crafts an item (legitimately) and sells it to Billy. Billy however was a sneaky bugger and got his gold from a gold farmer.

Question: Does Tom loose the gold?

As I know that I did not buy gold and nor does my guild. I do know however we do sell things on the AH and we would not want to get hit because someone else cheated the system

MrFabulous
10-22-2014, 09:22 AM
With the community mechanics behind archeage I find this tottally unacceptable.

Here are some examples of why this is flawed.

A guild offers protection service to a person. That person sends the gold via mail. Unknown to me that person hired a gold seller and sent the gold directly to myself, for said services. Hell if he even just handed me the gold directly i could get burned.

This example could be used for so many things in AA it hurts.

Darklynx
10-22-2014, 09:22 AM
Its funny how they post Threads with vague informations and never write back anymore. Damn thats dream support

Shalille
10-22-2014, 09:23 AM
...trying to fill the game with bots and landgrabs


Does this mean Trion will be taking retroactive action against ppl who used hacks/macros to grab demolishing land ?

Really great news if true.

Grailer
10-22-2014, 09:23 AM
Either way you received stolen funds innocent or not

kinda sucks if you sold APEX and got illegal gold removed but
maybe you will think twice before trying to pay to win .

MrFabulous
10-22-2014, 09:23 AM
Its funny how they post Threads with vague informations and never write back anymore. Damn thats dream support

They want the community to be sufficiently scared so that they (they community) will feel trion is doing something about the hacks, and bots using hacks.

Which doesn't seem to be the case.

Seems to be common fear mongering to persuaded people not to cheat instead of doing something about things people care about. (i.e Hacks, and bots using hacks.)

ironicsilence
10-22-2014, 09:24 AM
agree on the above examples and the need for more info, I recently sold a TS tree to someone, if he bought his gold and then used it to buy my Tree, does that that mean my gold goes byebye

How many degrees of Kevin Bacon are they tracing the gold?

devo3176
10-22-2014, 09:24 AM
Either way you received stolen funds innocent or not

kinda sucks if you sold APEX and got illegal gold removed but
maybe you will think twice before trying to pay to win .

We all use the AH with noway of telling where the gold comes from, i dont see how yuo can state that it's "illegal gold" when we used the ingame featture to sell stuff, What there saying is "Dont use the AH cos you can get your profit removed" Thats not a very good feature to have is it,

LtDarkstar
10-22-2014, 09:25 AM
With the community mechanics behind archeage I find this tottally unacceptable.

Here are some examples of why this is flawed.

A guild offers protection service to a person. That person sends the gold via mail. Unknown to me that person hired a gold seller and sent the gold directly to myself, for said services. Hell if he even just handed me the gold directly i could get burned.

This example could be used for so many things in AA it hurts.

Exactly this, we want to know how far this "gold grab" is going to go.. if I purchased something from a friend of a friend of a friend's roommate and found out that the item was stolen 3 people back, usually in RL you are screwed and you get the item removed (by the police) from you and get no compensation. Is this the sort of thing we can expect to see? Because at this point the game is so screwed up Trion would piss fewer people off by just doing a server wipe.

ninioautista
10-22-2014, 09:25 AM
if i bought 6 apex in AH from a GoldSeller (that of course I didn't know) will those APEX disappear?
same goes for any kind of item I bought in AH.

Kyosji
10-22-2014, 09:26 AM
Either way you received stolen funds innocent or not

kinda sucks if you sold APEX and got illegal gold removed but
maybe you will think twice before trying to pay to win .

Extremely ******ed statement.

MinkuP
10-22-2014, 09:28 AM
A number of you have mentioned that you're seeing gold disappearing.

As we broadcasted in yesterday's initial blast of rapturing hackers, gold farming bots, mules, and storage accounts, we're now also taking the step of removing the gains passed on by them.

What that means is: If you bought or were gifted gold from one of them, you may see it disappear. We do have the ability to trace coin, and that's the gold that's being cleaned up right now.

The best bet is to not buy gold - It's the same people trying to crap up chat with spam and trying to fill the game with bots and landgrabs. If you bought gold from one of those sites, you are absolutely welcome to try to go back to them for a refund, but we will not be returning gold purchased or gifted from goldsellers and botters. It's off in the ether from whence it came.

Old school EQ1 tactics. They traced the gold in that as well and it actually worked really well. Gold selling was still around but on a much reduced scale and no one had the balls to spam in chat about it.

UserName6
10-22-2014, 09:29 AM
Okay people lets get it straight on how a database works and how gold removals like this happen. They are not tracing a "piece of gold" they are tracing a number. So here you go.
1) You are a player that decides they need 500 gp and want it fast so you go and buy from a gold seller.
2) Trion has that gold seller "flagged".
3) You go and buy a bunch of stuff on the AH.
4) That gold is now "legitimate" gold for those that sold the item and still illegitimate gold for you.
5) You now have 20 of X item bought from the AH.
6) Trion now has a few choices, A) They remove all the remaining gold you have so you have 0. B) They reduce your gold amount by 500 so you have -500 gold. C) They remove the items you bought from the AH. MOST LIKELY they will do A (Unless they have ability to do B but negative numbers where a game isn't designed for it can cause some serious issues).

Finally and i'm going to highlight this
Do not bother contacting support if you bought gold and lost it. Don't even try. It is very easy to track this on a database. I don't care if you sent it through 5 alts first, it is still obvious. Save your time and customer supports time please.

Grailer
10-22-2014, 09:30 AM
bad things happen to good people all the time.

stolen gold is stolen and must be eliminated . QQ if you
get burned due to bad luck.

There are tissue boxes sold at local supermarket.

greenfire21
10-22-2014, 09:30 AM
So...if i have been running my trade packs and selling mats and someone bought them i'll lose money at this point...seriously ?! how is that even remotely fair to the legit players who have been super annoyed by the BS gold farmers/land claimers i'm stuck with a 8x8 and buying mats off AH to then make packs and run over sea's just to make money because BS people buy up land by the handfuls. Give us the ability to just destroy their god damn houses and do not take legit earned ( AH earned) money.


Or if you are taking the money- give back people the items they sold for said money so they can now attempt to re-sell it.

devo3176
10-22-2014, 09:30 AM
Okay people lets get it straight on how a database works and how gold removals like this happen. They are not tracing a "piece of gold" they are tracing a number. So here you go.
1) You are a player that decides they need 500 gp and want it fast so you go and buy from a gold seller.
2) Trion has that gold seller "flagged".
3) You go and buy a bunch of stuff on the AH.
4) That gold is now "legitimate" gold for those that sold the item and still illegitimate gold for you.
5) You now have 20 of X item bought from the AH.
6) Trion now has a few choices, A) They remove all the remaining gold you have so you have 0. B) They reduce your gold amount by 500 so you have -500 gold. C) They remove the items you bought from the AH. MOST LIKELY they will do A (Unless they have ability to do B but negative numbers where a game isn't designed for it can cause some serious issues).

Finally and i'm going to highlight this
Do not bother contacting support if you bought gold and lost it. Don't even try. It is very easy to track this on a database. I don't care if you sent it through 5 alts first, it is still obvious. Save your time and customer supports time please.

Whilst i see your point with "buyin gold" but i made my money by selling worms and medinical powder on AH to lvl up my gathering

Is it fair to have it removed cos it was bought by some 1 who bought / illegally got gold? i dont know who is buying it, i used there system to sell it

UserName6
10-22-2014, 09:31 AM
So...if i have been running my trade packs and selling mats and someone bought them i'll lose money at this point...seriously ?! how is that even remotely fair to the legit players who have been super annoyed by the BS gold farmers/land claimers i'm stuck with a 8x8 and buying mats off AH to then make packs and run over sea's just to make money because BS people buy up land by the handfuls. Give us the ability to just destroy their god damn houses and do not take legit earned ( AH earned) money.

No. This isn't how it works, see my post above.

Bunx
10-22-2014, 09:31 AM
Just love those who run around screaming about caveat emptor when people get scammed in game, are the same one's now crying that they will be punished for making high risk transactions.

LMAO, got to love that libertarian spirit!

UserName6
10-22-2014, 09:32 AM
Whilst i see your point with "buyin gold" but i made my money by selling worms and medinical powder on AH to lvl up my gathering

Is it fair to have it removed cos it was bought by some 1 who bought / illegally got gold? i dont know who is buying it, i used there system to sell it

You are missing the point. If you sold something on the AH and got gold your fine. If you bought gold you are not. No amount of trying to convince anyone (including yourself) is going to change that. This type of data is really easy to trace.

devo3176
10-22-2014, 09:33 AM
You are missing the point. If you sold something on the AH and got gold your fine. If you bought gold you are not. No amount of trying to convince anyone (including yourself) is going to change that. This type of data is really easy to trace.

i have never bought gold but have had 14g removed Gold is so easy to get tehre is no need to buy tbh

Herocles
10-22-2014, 09:34 AM
Oh the Tears of devo3176 are so sweet. This guy clearly bought gold and is no throwing a hissy fit because he dumped a load of cash into an illegal website for ingame gold. Now he is saying people are having their AH earnings taken away. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. The moral of this story? Don't be an idiot and buy gold illegally. Yes, this IS against the law. Not only are you breaking Trions rules but you are a real life criminal. Get over yourself and stop crying because you screwed up. Nobody believes you and nobody will. Do the right thing next time.

Nobody is having their AH earnings taken away if it was a legitimate purchase. If it was an extremely shady dealings to transfer gold through the AH then yes, it was probably removed. Such as selling an apple for a few grand. Consider yourself lucky you didn't get banned. 14 gold is nothing, that's less than 30 minutes of trade runs.

ILLSPAWN
10-22-2014, 09:35 AM
Its funny how they post Threads with vague informations and never write back anymore. Damn thats dream support
Well it is to be expected when the company has "professionals" using terms like "It's the same people trying to crap up chat ", when communicating to the whole customer base. Why would we think any other thought in the communication would be used?

RP4Lyfe
10-22-2014, 09:35 AM
I am going to be super pissed if I log in missing hundreds of gold because some dumb♥♥♥♥ I sold bear cubs to bought gold and makes ME lose gold when I have zero idea if they are legit or not.

Kyosji
10-22-2014, 09:35 AM
Okay people lets get it straight on how a database works and how gold removals like this happen. They are not tracing a "piece of gold" they are tracing a number. So here you go.
1) You are a player that decides they need 500 gp and want it fast so you go and buy from a gold seller.
2) Trion has that gold seller "flagged".
3) You go and buy a bunch of stuff on the AH.
4) That gold is now "legitimate" gold for those that sold the item and still illegitimate gold for you.
5) You now have 20 of X item bought from the AH.
6) Trion now has a few choices, A) They remove all the remaining gold you have so you have 0. B) They reduce your gold amount by 500 so you have -500 gold. C) They remove the items you bought from the AH. MOST LIKELY they will do A (Unless they have ability to do B but negative numbers where a game isn't designed for it can cause some serious issues).

Finally and i'm going to highlight this
Do not bother contacting support if you bought gold and lost it. Don't even try. It is very easy to track this on a database. I don't care if you sent it through 5 alts first, it is still obvious. Save your time and customer supports time please.

That's not the issue here. The legit players that sold the items on the AH that the gold buyer paid for are the ones losing their money.

LtDarkstar
10-22-2014, 09:36 AM
Just love those who run around screaming about caveat emptor when people get scammed in game, are the same one's now crying that they will be punished for making high risk transactions.

LMAO, got to love that libertarian spirit!

Troll attempt 0/10... try harder

There are legitimate questions being asked here from legitimate players who were NOT involved in "High risk" transactions as you say. Lots of people sold things via AH that they worked hard for and to take gold away from THEM because someone who purchased those items or was involved in the AH transaction at some point down the line was a gold seller is hardly fair for them. We want some answers as to who will be effected by this and the GM has failed to clarify a few points. The only immature "crying" I see in this thread is by trolls like you.

UserName6
10-22-2014, 09:36 AM
Well it is to be expected when the company has "professionals" using terms like "It's the same people trying to crap up chat ", when communicating to the whole customer base. Why would we think any other thought in the communication would be used?

They have to speak to the level of their customer base.

devo3176
10-22-2014, 09:36 AM
Oh the Tears of devo3176 are so sweet. This guy clearly bought gold and is no throwing a hissy fit because he dumped a load of cash into an illegal website for ingame gold. Now he is saying people are having their AH earnings taken away. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. The moral of this story? Don't be an idiot and buy gold illegally. Yes, this IS against the law. Not only are you breaking Trions rules but you are a real life criminal. Get over yourself and stop crying because you screwed up. Nobody believes you and nobody will. Do the right thing next time.

Nobody is having their AH earnings taken away if it was a legitimate purchase. If it was an extremely shady dealings to transfer gold through the AH then yes, it was probably removed. Such as selling an apple for a few grand.

Lol your oso 1 track minded, i have not bought gold, and never will, i dont need to, i have alot of farms runnign with my brothers we do alot of trade runs, So keep your pointless sarcastic coments to yourself,

i gtg to work i'll catch up on this in the morning..

but another offical response would be nice

i have however just cancelled my sub.. GG trion if we cant even use the AH this aint the game for me

ILLSPAWN
10-22-2014, 09:37 AM
Oh the Tears of devo3176 are so sweet. This guy clearly bought gold and is no throwing a hissy fit because he dumped a load of cash into an illegal website for ingame gold. Now he is saying people are having their AH earnings taken away. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. The moral of this story? Don't be an idiot and buy gold illegally. Yes, this IS against the law. Not only are you breaking Trions rules but you are a real life criminal. Get over yourself and stop crying because you screwed up. Nobody believes you and nobody will. Do the right thing next time.

Nobody is having their AH earnings taken away if it was a legitimate purchase. If it was an extremely shady dealings to transfer gold through the AH then yes, it was probably removed. Such as selling an apple for a few grand. Consider yourself lucky you didn't get banned. 14 gold is nothing, that's less than 30 minutes of trade runs.

Can you please show me which law the individual broke by purchasing in game money with real cash?

Kyosji
10-22-2014, 09:37 AM
bad things happen to good people all the time.

stolen gold is stolen and must be eliminated . QQ if you
get burned due to bad luck.

There are tissue boxes sold at local supermarket.

And what about the people who spent REAL money on items from the market place to sell on teh AH and lose both the gold AND the item. There's a legal grey area there that's slowly starting to bleed over to one side. Everyone mentions how EQ1 did this, but when EQ1 did it, they weren't using a real money in game store. This will cause some form of legal issue, I'm sure.

UserName6
10-22-2014, 09:37 AM
That's not the issue here. The legit players that sold the items on the AH that the gold buyer paid for are the ones losing their money.

Proof? I have bought and sold on the AH since day one to make most of my money (only about 600ish gold). I didn't notice a change when i logged in. I most likely have over 300 ah transactions, maybe more since i only make 50s-80s a transaction.

Kyosji
10-22-2014, 09:39 AM
No. This isn't how it works, see my post above.

Apparently you don't know HOW it works, because it's happening to the people who DIDN'T buy gold.

Pyros2008
10-22-2014, 09:39 AM
Well it is to be expected when the company has "professionals" using terms like "It's the same people trying to crap up chat ", when communicating to the whole customer base. Why would we think any other thought in the communication would be used?

Yup, they locked my thread seconds after posting it, yet still can't reply to this vague thread.

PoP
10-22-2014, 09:40 AM
Apparently you don't know HOW it works, because it's happening to the people who DIDN'T buy gold.

Who lost stuff that didnt buy gold?

Perls
10-22-2014, 09:40 AM
Either way you received stolen funds innocent or not

kinda sucks if you sold APEX and got illegal gold removed but
maybe you will think twice before trying to pay to win .

This may be the dumbest statement I've seen on these forums to date.

"You should think twice before doing something the game encourages you to do on their website"

You're a special sort of person aren't you.

Herocles
10-22-2014, 09:41 AM
I'm not sure why I'm even going to try to explain this to you, but here we go:

Do you know what copyright laws are, and why people are not allowed to make copies of movies, games, etc... and sell them through a third party? This is the exact same thing. A third party is profiting off the work and of another individual or corporation without the consent of said party. Do you really think this isn't illegal? You're a moron.

UserName6
10-22-2014, 09:42 AM
Who lost stuff that didnt buy gold?

Not sure either. I'm awaiting some proof as i find it extremely odd that i made the vast majority of my money when workers comps fluctuated badly. By this logic is should be at -300ish gold. I logged in and my account is still fine.

Ennio
10-22-2014, 09:43 AM
Can you please show me which law the individual broke by purchasing in game money with real cash?

Law of the game brah.

Perls
10-22-2014, 09:44 AM
Who lost stuff that didnt buy gold?

I haven't lost any yet. Also haven't bought gold.

ironicsilence
10-22-2014, 09:45 AM
I do love when trion posts useful information but doesnt consider adding info that will likely be needed once the questions start rolling in, then the forums erupt in flames waiting for more info....

Rostrax
10-22-2014, 09:49 AM
I hope the people who sold gilda aren't getting effed lol. This is a silly over-reaction to appease the community. It was unneccesary and I have a feeling a lot of innocent people will get burnt. Also it's unfortunate the people buying gold are also the people with the expendable income to pay Trion.

Synthetic CK
10-22-2014, 09:52 AM
I do love when trion posts useful information but doesnt consider adding info that will likely be needed once the questions start rolling in, then the forums erupt in flames waiting for more info....
And then they do post follow up answers and make them all look like whiny children? Me too.

ILLSPAWN
10-22-2014, 09:53 AM
I'm not sure why I'm even going to try to explain this to you, but here we go:

Do you know what copyright laws are, and why people are not allowed to make copies of movies, games, etc... and sell them through a third party? This is the exact same thing. A third party is profiting off the work and of another individual or corporation without the consent of said party. Do you really think this isn't illegal? You're a moron.

Your writing gives the impression that when you present a statement as fact you get upset over the matter if someone asks a question in regards to it. I am not sure why anyone would get upset about that, because this should be expected. I would love to see some case law on the subject so I can be as enlightened as you about this exact subject matter of selling in game gold for real life currency.

Yoshua
10-22-2014, 09:54 AM
Copied from my original thread

"I agree with the taking of gold in spirit, but in reality taking gold from someone who legitimately sold seed bundles on the AH to someone who bought them with non-legit gold is just cold.


This will punish the legit players making money off of farming as much as the players who bought the items with bad gold.

Glad the money is being taken out of the system, just think that doing it so callously is the wrong way to approach your legit players. They will wind up rebelling and leaving if they get hit too hard. Saw some players losing hundreds in the other thread. No clue if they got the gold from buying it or not but they were losing it in 1-10g increments so my guess is no."


What if someone bought an apex for 10$ sold it on the AH for 80g and then that 80g came from a gold seller? That person is now out 10$ an Apex, and their 80g


This needs to be more intelligently done, you can't control who buys your stuff from the Auction House and people are saying that is where they made money and it is disappearing.

GG

squidgod2000
10-22-2014, 09:57 AM
You'll be doing these purges every week, right?

Rostrax
10-22-2014, 09:58 AM
You'll be doing these purges every week, right?

Hahaha, you're a funny guy

squidgod2000
10-22-2014, 09:59 AM
What work? legit players are loosign money cos gold sellers buy of ah thats not good at all

If that's the case, then yes, it sucks for people. Honestly though, it's best for the game long term.

Synthetic CK
10-22-2014, 10:00 AM
To those asking about gold being wrongfully taken: Morgana posted about it again. (http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?96748-Gold-dissapearing&p=930448&viewfull=1#post930448)

"However, all transactions were thoroughly vetted before any gold was removed. If you had gold removed, it did not come from a genuine source."

Bunje
10-22-2014, 10:00 AM
Bots get banned?
Yeah it´s ok^^
Tell this someone other...
20mins after the message in the worldchat a bot caught a farm...
Yeah^^

RP4Lyfe
10-22-2014, 10:01 AM
To those asking about gold being wrongfully taken: Morgana posted about it again. (http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?96748-Gold-dissapearing&p=930448&viewfull=1#post930448)

"However, all transactions were thoroughly vetted before any gold was removed. If you had gold removed, it did not come from a genuine source."

That doesnt mean ♥♥♥♥. If I sold an item to a person who bought gold - will I be out gold? If so that is incredibly ♥♥♥♥ed up.

Jeiid
10-22-2014, 10:02 AM
This is my understanding of what's happening. Trion is only taking gold from players who bought from gold sellers. Regardless of what they did with the gold they have. It's just like tracing back to the time the transaction was made between the gold seller and the buyer. So the buyers are being charged in-game for whatever they do until the bought gold is taken out of the system.

Synthetic CK
10-22-2014, 10:02 AM
That doesnt mean ♥♥♥♥. If I sold an item to a person who bought gold - will I be out gold? If so that is incredibly ♥♥♥♥ed up.
Well did you have gold removed? It's not a hard concept people.

Rostrax
10-22-2014, 10:03 AM
That doesnt mean ♥♥♥♥. If I sold an item to a person who bought gold - will I be out gold? If so that is incredibly ♥♥♥♥ed up.
Like I said, hope people who sold all their gilda aren't getting screwed.

Jixjax
10-22-2014, 10:03 AM
To those asking about gold being wrongfully taken: Morgana posted about it again. (http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?96748-Gold-dissapearing&p=930448&viewfull=1#post930448)

"However, all transactions were thoroughly vetted before any gold was removed. If you had gold removed, it did not come from a genuine source."

Ya, that's not clear at all... Trion needs to provide a detailed FAQ as this will likely have a lot of pissed off legit and illegit players.

Ashrahm
10-22-2014, 10:04 AM
That doesnt mean ♥♥♥♥. If I sold an item to a person who bought gold - will I be out gold? If so that is incredibly ♥♥♥♥ed up.

This is something people are looking to get answered and it is a very valid and important thing to find out

ironicsilence
10-22-2014, 10:04 AM
SO the moral of the story is, if you buy gold, use it ASAP?

Synthetic CK
10-22-2014, 10:05 AM
Ya, that's not clear at all... Trion needs to provide a detailed FAQ as this will likely have a lot of pissed off legit and illegit players.
I dunno, common sense leads me to believe they're only looking at trades directly from known RMT accounts. Hyperbole and anecdotal evidence aside, I'd wait until more dev posts come through.

RP4Lyfe
10-22-2014, 10:06 AM
Well did you have gold removed? It's not a hard concept people.

I have no idea. I am at work and wont be able to log on for a few hours.

Bunx
10-22-2014, 10:06 AM
I could care less if they deleted every copper from the game that trace back to a gold seller. That would be best for the game overall.


The same people screaming not fair are same who tell others caveat emptor when scammed by people in game. You made high risk transactions....LOL...caveat emptor baby!

Relient
10-22-2014, 10:07 AM
A number of you have mentioned that you're seeing gold disappearing.

As we broadcasted in yesterday's initial blast of rapturing hackers, gold farming bots, mules, and storage accounts, we're now also taking the step of removing the gains passed on by them.

What that means is: If you bought or were gifted gold from one of them, you may see it disappear. We do have the ability to trace coin, and that's the gold that's being cleaned up right now.

The best bet is to not buy gold - It's the same people trying to crap up chat with spam and trying to fill the game with bots and landgrabs. If you bought gold from one of those sites, you are absolutely welcome to try to go back to them for a refund, but we will not be returning gold purchased or gifted from goldsellers and botters. It's off in the ether from whence it came.

So can we get one clarification please?

What happens to all the people who has a botter's gold in their inventory but got it from legit AH transactions? Here is the scenario I am talking about.

I spend $200 on Archeum Chests from Market Place.
I get 4 Red Regrade 100% Charms
I put all 4 Red Regrade 100% Charms up on the AH as separate entries, each going for 85g buyout.
2 out of the 4 Charms are bought buy someone who purchased gold from a gold seller.
Does this mean that I lose that gold ($150 after AH fees, currently in my inventory) even though I was not the person who bought the gold?

Thanks in advance.

ironicsilence
10-22-2014, 10:07 AM
I dunno, common sense leads me to believe they're only looking at trades directly from known RMT accounts. Hyperbole and anecdotal evidence aside, I'd wait until more dev posts come through.
I would hope the common sense factor comes into play, but given how the AA community reacts to ANY info from trion, I would have much rather they waited to make a post and provided a clear to understand picture with answers to likely FAQs

Synthetic CK
10-22-2014, 10:11 AM
I would hope the common sense factor comes into play, but given how the AA community reacts to ANY info from trion, I would have much rather they waited to make a post and provided a clear to understand picture with answers to likely FAQs
Agreed. Less panic that way.

Starlix
10-22-2014, 10:11 AM
Trion is kind of stuck in a catch 22 here...

They might not want to disclose how they determine what gold gets delete because that's just telling gold buyers/sellers how to not get their gold zapped.

They can't just not say anything because this is a massive disruption to the economy. Would you sell your 250 gilda design for 2k gold if you knew there might be a chance for that 2k to have come from a gold buyer/seller and be zapped away once you have it in hand?

lumi
10-22-2014, 10:12 AM
This is the dumbest thing I have been a company do.

Ok, yes get rid of the gold sellers, botters and hackers!

HOWEVER

if you did nothing at the start to prevent these gold selling businesses to do business then you should just punish them, not the ppl who paid money to get a ingame item..

that's like cops only busting people who buy pot and leave the dealers alone..

the only reason you deleted gold from buyers is because it takes away potential buyers of credits through your marketplace.
There is already legit way to get gold so anyone using these 3rd party websites aren't interested supporting Trion/XLGames, but just save some money to get gold cheaper and same time they create market for these 3rd party websites which use bots and spam crap out of chat to advertise their "services".

Going after these players who use 3rd party websites to buy gold is one of most effective way to reduce demand of these websites and indirectly reduce amount of bots. It wont remove all of them, but thats why Trion is also going after these bots, so they are doing both removing gold from gold buyers and banning gold seller bots.

I wouldnt fear using AH, at least I have been using it a lot and haven't lost single gold and even if I did lose gold by some accident by Trion I am sure one ticket/live chat would sort it out for me which I would be glad to do knowing that game was cleaned from botted gold.

Render
10-22-2014, 10:13 AM
So many tears in this thread. Trion is ACTUALLY doing something to clean this game up. Even if it has minimal collateral damage, who cares? Yes, this stuff should not have been allowed from the first place, we got it - get over it. I am genuinely excited to see strides into the right direction.

MrFabulous
10-22-2014, 10:14 AM
Ill just say this,

The price of gold in RMT hasnt changed.

That should be enough evidence that it didn't work.

If any significant portion of gold was zapped you would see a spike in prices. Which isnt the case so far.

keona
10-22-2014, 10:14 AM
I don't know if this whole thing will end well. many players that bought gold likely have invested the money in AH purchases or buying land. how would this affect the seller? will that gold stay in the economy or will gold be taken and item/land returned? or will just gold be removed a trion just screw the legitimate player?

MrBloodworth
10-22-2014, 10:18 AM
http://i.imgur.com/PbXHk16.png

Rostrax
10-22-2014, 10:19 AM
So many tears in this thread. Trion is ACTUALLY doing something to clean this game up. Even if it has minimal collateral damage, who cares? Yes, this stuff should not have been allowed from the first place, we got it - get over it. I am genuinely excited to see strides into the right direction.

You are exactly what they wanted. They just threw out a bunch of gold. They haven't addressed any real issues lol

homercall
10-22-2014, 10:19 AM
Clap clap clap. Finally something...

UserName6
10-22-2014, 10:21 AM
Red post is very specific. Stop asking for clarification, go look at Morgana's threads. (FYI Do you have an elf character with a black glider as wings in the game? I smell copyright infringement...:) )

Render
10-22-2014, 10:22 AM
You are exactly what they wanted. They just threw out a bunch of gold. They haven't addressed any real issues lol

That's fine, I'm glad I'm exactly what they wanted. Would I prefer to see this or to see nothing? The answer is obvious. Do I think the game is perfect now? Not even close.

HadesR
10-22-2014, 10:25 AM
Cool .. I guess while you are sorting out money it will be possible to get a answer to my ticket were your Marketplace system too my credits and didn't give the items .. :)

Kyosji
10-22-2014, 10:27 AM
Red post is very specific. Stop asking for clarification, go look at Morgana's threads. (FYI Do you have an elf character with a black glider as wings in the game? I smell copyright infringement...:) )

How is it specific. From the posts all over the forums, and from how vague she wrote her statement, it's seeming like people who sold items on teh AH are losing money just because the person who bought it was a gold buyer. I'm believing it more and more because I'm seeing posts about multiple people losing 1-20 gold out of nowhere. What type of gold buyer buys only 1-20 gold? Also, the way she wrote it, it sounds like if you buy APEX through the market, and a gold buyer buys it, you lose the gold you sold it for, and the APEX you bought with real money. That sort of thing needs to be clear for everyone. If that IS the case, TRION owes those people back the money they paid for the APEX, or the APEX back, since Trion basically sold it to them to take it away, meaning they were never given the goods they bought. Legal grey area there.

There was very little in Morgana's thread that was 'specific'.

AyrikaSoze
10-22-2014, 10:28 AM
How is it specific. From the posts all over the forums, and from how vague she wrote her statement, it's seeming like people who sold items on teh AH are losing money just because the person who bought it was a gold buyer. I'm believing it more and more because I'm seeing posts about multiple people losing 1-20 gold out of nowhere. What type of gold buyer buys only 1-20 gold? Also, the way she wrote it, it sounds like if you buy APEX through the market, and a gold buyer buys it, you lose the gold you sold it for, and the APEX you bought with real money. That sort of thing needs to be clear for everyone. If that IS the case, TRION owes those people back the money they paid for the APEX, or the APEX back, since Trion basically sold it to them to take it away, meaning they were never given the goods they bought. Legal grey area there.

There was very little in Morgana's thread that was 'specific'.

QFT

/10char

ninioautista
10-22-2014, 10:29 AM
so far I haven't seen legit people that didnt actually buy gold having stuff deleted so, i take that as a good sign

Origami
10-22-2014, 10:32 AM
Hey there,

First: I logged in earlier today and did not notice any missing gold - so this isn't a complaint at this point in time, but it does raise a question for me...

I generally run some HF raids with a few guildies for loot. I end up collecting a few items and placing them on the AH for cheaper then the going rate. Let's say a person who has purchased gold comes along and purchases said item - do I get my gold taken away and am I still out the item? Or do I get my item returned?

I'm all for getting these kinds of people out of the game, but I feel that if I'm getting penalized for being a legitimate player then it's going a little far... If you're able to follow the gold trail, then surely you can view the AH trail as well and return the items gained legitimately, right?

Relient
10-22-2014, 10:32 AM
Cool .. I guess while you are sorting out money it will be possible to get a answer to my ticket were your Marketplace system too my credits and didn't give the items .. :)

Live chat for this, I had a ticket open for three weeks and no response. After that, 4 hours Live chat queue, got a GM and in 10 mins the GM had it fixed.

Bunx
10-22-2014, 10:36 AM
Live chat for this, I had a ticket open for three weeks and no response. After that, 4 hours Live chat queue, got a GM and in 10 mins the GM had it fixed.

my live chat has been disable for weeks

Aliadne
10-22-2014, 10:39 AM
if they can track the ah purchases then it would make sense for the gold to be removed and the item bought returned to seller, that way no one legit gets hurt.
The seller loses the gold but gets the item back, the gold buyer loses any items gained with bad gold
WIN WIN!
This way I think is teaching people that it is still ok to buy gold as long as they spend it really quickly.

Genide
10-22-2014, 10:42 AM
Can you please show me which law the individual broke by purchasing in game money with real cash?

http://www.trionworlds.com/en/legal/terms-of-use/

Section 2. ADDITIONAL LICENSE LIMITATIONS

You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:

B.
exploit the Game(s) or any of its parts (such as any Game-related Virtual Items which may be offered in connection with such Game(s)), the Game Client(s) or Service, for any commercial purpose, including without limitation (a) use at a cyber cafe, computer gaming center or any other location-based site without the express written consent of Trion (as, for instance, set forth in a Game EULA); (b) communicating or facilitating any commercial advertisement or solicitation; (c) for gathering Virtual Items and/or resources for sale outside the Game; or (d) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, (e.g., power-leveling, etc…);


I swear, people don't know what they are signing up for anymore.
-____-

ILLSPAWN
10-22-2014, 10:46 AM
http://www.trionworlds.com/en/legal/terms-of-use/

Section 2. ADDITIONAL LICENSE LIMITATIONS

You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:

B.
exploit the Game(s) or any of its parts (such as any Game-related Virtual Items which may be offered in connection with such Game(s)), the Game Client(s) or Service, for any commercial purpose, including without limitation (a) use at a cyber cafe, computer gaming center or any other location-based site without the express written consent of Trion (as, for instance, set forth in a Game EULA); (b) communicating or facilitating any commercial advertisement or solicitation; (c) for gathering Virtual Items and/or resources for sale outside the Game; or (d) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, (e.g., power-leveling, etc…);


I swear, people don't know what they are signing up for anymore.
-____-

That is a Terms of Service and does not make it illegal in the court of law.

Timzilla
10-22-2014, 10:48 AM
If you sold worms for 200 gold a pop you were buying gold. Trion should however return any and all items that were sold to cover legit seller intentions.

ironicsilence
10-22-2014, 10:48 AM
I'm also interested to know how often Trion will be running this process as it certainly cant be a one off, Im also wondering if an Ebola like fear will grip the heart of the community making players afraid to do direct trades for gold and only do business through the AH. I also look forward to hearing stories of the lengths players go to in an effort to "launder" there gold to try to get around the system

RP4Lyfe
10-22-2014, 10:50 AM
I'm also interested to know how often Trion will be running this process as it certainly cant be a one off, Im also wondering if an Ebola like fear will grip the heart of the community making players afraid to do direct trades for gold and only do business through the AH. I also look forward to hearing stories of the lengths players go to in an effort to "launder" there gold to try to get around the system

I already only use the AH with the hack/scam that people were running where you would trade them and not get anything.

Origami
10-22-2014, 10:51 AM
That is a Terms of Service and does not make it illegal in the court of law.
You do realize that it is essentially a contract between service provider and you, right? The U.S. court system has a history of upholding these agreements (http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2010/09/10/09-35969.pdf). If you have spent money with Trion, then with a gold seller and had said gold removed from your account and then charged back because you got caught - Trion could file a suit and get that money back - you have no legal ground to stand on.

Morketh
10-22-2014, 10:52 AM
I already only use the AH with the hack/scam that people were running where you would trade them and not get anything.

For a while i was too afraid to have my first illustrious crafted for me because of all the scams.

Feoryn
10-22-2014, 10:54 AM
Will they be removing bots farms as well?

SteveT
10-22-2014, 10:55 AM
This is a massive step in the right direction....Well done!!!

PoP
10-22-2014, 10:58 AM
That is a Terms of Service and does not make it illegal in the court of law.

Doesn't have to be illegal for them to ban you. Its not illegal to throw up in a nightclub still they will most likely ban you from entering again.

Rostrax
10-22-2014, 10:59 AM
You do realize that it is essentially a contract between service provider and you, right? The U.S. court system has a history of upholding these agreements (http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2010/09/10/09-35969.pdf). If you have spent money with Trion, then with a gold seller and had said gold removed from your account and then charged back because you got caught - Trion could file a suit and get that money back - you have no legal ground to stand on.
Some dude said you are a real life criminal of you buy gold lol. Also that said nothing about purchasing, only of selling

TigerFox
10-22-2014, 10:59 AM
Gold buyers get their gold taken away, & people rejoice with trolls galore, imagining the tears of those other players & dreaming of thousands of 24x24 & 16x16 areas opening up.

Reality: most of the land will remain as is, & the chance of getting land will plummet while the price of buying land skyrockets.

Gold buyers items that were bought are taken - players rejoice with trolls galore, imagining the tears of those players & dreaming of a world where "the economy" is now their friend

Reality: Normal players lose big time with the legit items they sold, while the Zerg guilds that have been swarming fishing spawns like locusts, dominating the economy and forcefully restructuring the economy & land control through pure economic force. Small guilds & lone wolf players finally realize that the first 2 weeks of game launch etched in stone each player's role on their server, & their role was "peasant."

Gold buyers have all of their gold taken & players rejoice!!! FINALLY some justice!! I can finally get someone to buy my Delphinad celestial armor/weapon item for 7k gold!!

Reality: Lolz....who has THAT much gold?? I'll give you 400g & a handshake.

Gold buyers are forever banished from the realm!! Zerg guilds rejoice as this is good news leading up to the release of Auroria! We shall have our castles by pure numbers!! Quickly! Continue to craft!!

Reality: Every free2play & streamer guild that's spent every waking hour PvPing since launch is largely unaffected, & r**es ur face on Auroria launch with still largely unaddressed hacks, & exploits, while wearing all the sweet high end dungeon & kraken drops they got from exploiting those things as well. No castles for you! /getRekt

I'm not supporting gold buying in any way, nor feeling sorry for gold buyers, but the general consensus on what this ACTUALLY means for the community is way off. Yuck it up while you can. Hold on to these good moments for when the tsunami of your tears are flooding Nuia & Harani when reality sets in.

ILLSPAWN
10-22-2014, 11:15 AM
You do realize that it is essentially a contract between service provider and you, right? The U.S. court system has a history of upholding these agreements (http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2010/09/10/09-35969.pdf). If you have spent money with Trion, then with a gold seller and had said gold removed from your account and then charged back because you got caught - Trion could file a suit and get that money back - you have no legal ground to stand on.

Breach of contract is a civil matter. However, you are throwing in factors that was not the original subject. The original subject is that solely selling in game gold for real life currency is against the law. In which case I have not seen any case law showing this is true. I would suspect if it was against the law there would be numerous companies taking the gold sellers to court and winning.

If it was criminal law not only financial restitution may be found but additional punishment set by the courts. Being that originally it was stated that the person would be breaking the law and that they are a criminal they were implying criminal law and not civil law.

LtDarkstar
10-22-2014, 11:15 AM
Gold buyers get their gold taken away, & people rejoice with trolls galore, imagining the tears of those other players & dreaming of thousands of 24x24 & 16x16 areas opening up.

Reality: most of the land will remain as is, & the chance of getting land will plummet while the price of buying land skyrockets.

Gold buyers items that were bought are taken - players rejoice with trolls galore, imagining the tears of those players & dreaming of a world where "the economy" is now their friend

Reality: Normal players lose big time with the legit items they sold, while the Zerg guilds that have been swarming fishing spawns like locusts, dominating the economy and forcefully restructuring the economy & land control through pure economic force. Small guilds & lone wolf players finally realize that the first 2 weeks of game launch etched in stone each player's role on their server, & their role was "peasant."

Gold buyers have all of their gold taken & players rejoice!!! FINALLY some justice!! I can finally get someone to buy my Delphinad celestial armor/weapon item for 7k gold!!

Reality: Lolz....who has THAT much gold?? I'll give you 400g & a handshake.

Gold buyers are forever banished from the realm!! Zerg guilds rejoice as this is good news leading up to the release of Auroria! We shall have our castles by pure numbers!! Quickly! Continue to craft!!

Reality: Every free2play & streamer guild that's spent every waking hour PvPing since launch is largely unaffected, & r**es ur face on Auroria launch with still largely unaddressed hacks, & exploits, while wearing all the sweet high end dungeon & kraken drops they got from exploiting those things as well. No castles for you! /getRekt

I'm not supporting gold buying in any way, nor feeling sorry for gold buyers, but the general consensus on what this ACTUALLY means for the community is way off. Yuck it up while you can. Hold on to these good moments for when the tsunami of your tears are flooding Nuia & Harani when reality sets in.

I think you really hit the nail on the head. The damage was already too widespread and there really is no way to fix this gaping wound with a band-aid, which is what they really are attempting to do at this point.

TattedSoul
10-22-2014, 11:17 AM
Gold buyers get their gold taken away, & people rejoice with trolls galore, imagining the tears of those other players & dreaming of thousands of 24x24 & 16x16 areas opening up.

Reality: most of the land will remain as is, & the chance of getting land will plummet while the price of buying land skyrockets.

Gold buyers items that were bought are taken - players rejoice with trolls galore, imagining the tears of those players & dreaming of a world where "the economy" is now their friend

Reality: Normal players lose big time with the legit items they sold, while the Zerg guilds that have been swarming fishing spawns like locusts, dominating the economy and forcefully restructuring the economy & land control through pure economic force. Small guilds & lone wolf players finally realize that the first 2 weeks of game launch etched in stone each player's role on their server, & their role was "peasant."

Gold buyers have all of their gold taken & players rejoice!!! FINALLY some justice!! I can finally get someone to buy my Delphinad celestial armor/weapon item for 7k gold!!

Reality: Lolz....who has THAT much gold?? I'll give you 400g & a handshake.

Gold buyers are forever banished from the realm!! Zerg guilds rejoice as this is good news leading up to the release of Auroria! We shall have our castles by pure numbers!! Quickly! Continue to craft!!

Reality: Every free2play & streamer guild that's spent every waking hour PvPing since launch is largely unaffected, & r**es ur face on Auroria launch with still largely unaddressed hacks, & exploits, while wearing all the sweet high end dungeon & kraken drops they got from exploiting those things as well. No castles for you! /getRekt

I'm not supporting gold buying in any way, nor feeling sorry for gold buyers, but the general consensus on what this ACTUALLY means for the community is way off. Yuck it up while you can. Hold on to these good moments for when the tsunami of your tears are flooding Nuia & Harani when reality sets in.

You actually tried to turn this into bad news? What a joke. Normally people are happy when this type of thing happens and the ones who aren't are normally the ones who support the bad behavior of buying gold and running bots.

ILLSPAWN
10-22-2014, 11:19 AM
Doesn't have to be illegal for them to ban you. Its not illegal to throw up in a nightclub still they will most likely ban you from entering again.

I never stated they could not ban anyone. The subject matter is in reference in a person stating that it was against the law and calling the person a criminal.

Swars
10-22-2014, 11:19 AM
so..... what about the gold you made by selling stuff on AH ?????

Rostrax
10-22-2014, 11:25 AM
I'm still waiting to see the people who sold 400 gilda for 2.5k in a trade transaction have their act wiped of gold lol

Kara
10-22-2014, 11:35 AM
So if I sell Apex and the person trading me gold got the gold through illegal means, does that mean the gold will be removed from me?

iSlippY
10-22-2014, 11:37 AM
LoL from the Gold Sellers! Hahahahaha. I was planning to buy before, but nvm! Hahaha

iSlippY
10-22-2014, 11:39 AM
So if I sell Apex and the person trading me gold got the gold through illegal means, does that mean the gold will be removed from me?

This might be a problem, Hope you wont lose ur gold.

Shayley
10-22-2014, 11:43 AM
Jesus , you people can't be satisfied. You want the hacked gold out of the game, but not if YOU have it. Sure, it kinda sucks that someone bought something you had with gold that wasn't legit...but for the good of the game suck it up and be happy this gold is being traced and removed. The game has only been out for a little over a month...you can't possibly be losing that much.


Thank you Trion for finally taking action. Some kids just can't understand sometimes you gotta do things the hard way and wipe it all to save the game before its too late.

RP4Lyfe
10-22-2014, 11:49 AM
Jesus , you people can't be satisfied. You want the hacked gold out of the game, but not if YOU have it. Sure, it kinda sucks that someone bought something you had with gold that wasn't legit...but for the good of the game suck it up and be happy this gold is being traced and removed. The game has only been out for a little over a month...you can't possibly be losing that much.


Thank you Trion for finally taking action. Some kids just can't understand sometimes you gotta do things the hard way and wipe it all to save the game before its too late.


♥♥♥♥ off. If something someone sold was bought by a hacker/gold buyer that they have no knowledge of them doing, why the ♥♥♥♥ should that person get punished. Kindly pull your head out of your ♥♥♥.

Zackis
10-22-2014, 11:49 AM
Gold buyers get their gold taken away, & people rejoice with trolls galore, imagining the tears of those other players & dreaming of thousands of 24x24 & 16x16 areas opening up.

Reality: most of the land will remain as is, & the chance of getting land will plummet while the price of buying land skyrockets.

Gold buyers items that were bought are taken - players rejoice with trolls galore, imagining the tears of those players & dreaming of a world where "the economy" is now their friend

Reality: Normal players lose big time with the legit items they sold, while the Zerg guilds that have been swarming fishing spawns like locusts, dominating the economy and forcefully restructuring the economy & land control through pure economic force. Small guilds & lone wolf players finally realize that the first 2 weeks of game launch etched in stone each player's role on their server, & their role was "peasant."

Gold buyers have all of their gold taken & players rejoice!!! FINALLY some justice!! I can finally get someone to buy my Delphinad celestial armor/weapon item for 7k gold!!

Reality: Lolz....who has THAT much gold?? I'll give you 400g & a handshake.

Gold buyers are forever banished from the realm!! Zerg guilds rejoice as this is good news leading up to the release of Auroria! We shall have our castles by pure numbers!! Quickly! Continue to craft!!

Reality: Every free2play & streamer guild that's spent every waking hour PvPing since launch is largely unaffected, & r**es ur face on Auroria launch with still largely unaddressed hacks, & exploits, while wearing all the sweet high end dungeon & kraken drops they got from exploiting those things as well. No castles for you! /getRekt

I'm not supporting gold buying in any way, nor feeling sorry for gold buyers, but the general consensus on what this ACTUALLY means for the community is way off. Yuck it up while you can. Hold on to these good moments for when the tsunami of your tears are flooding Nuia & Harani when reality sets in.

I think you are missing the point, you are only pointing out the potential Negative impact on the market. I'm not an in game economist but both scarcity and supply in demand do work to some effect, the market can only run for a Maximum of 48 hours, so through careful plotting and some analysis you CAN find ways to make money with just a small amount of land.

Gold sellers? Let em rot in the special place in hell for their kind. I have no love or desire to improve their lot in life EVEN at the expense of 7K for a piece of armor. I'll make it myself then. Gold isn't the only method of acquiring stuff it is the most expedient.

I'm not wholly against what your saying... some of it does have merit, especially the importance of being able to grab land early...I just don't know how Trion could step in and change that...XL games seems to have thought the current system is ok.

TigerFox
10-22-2014, 11:51 AM
"You actually tried to turn this into bad news? What a joke. Normally people are happy when this type of thing happens and the ones who aren't are normally the ones who support the bad behavior of buying gold and running bots."


Response:

Can't distinguish if this is a troll, or you actually believe anyone who is concerned more about the game as a whole vs a few measly account bans for players that would've gotten banned anyways, & accounts for players buying gold out of desperation to get land to actually do things in the game (after buying founder packs. & falling victim to land exploit hacks STILL going up uncorrected) somehow equals that I'm a gold buyer?

Like I said....bask in the glow of this moment of perceived vindication. When reality sets in, your tears will be delicious.

MrFabulous
10-22-2014, 11:58 AM
Stop Just everyone stop!

Gold sellers have not changed their price. THAT alone should tell you everything you need to know.

If gold sellers total amount available to sell was really reduced by a plausibly large amount say 25% you would see a price fluctuation.

The amount of gold they have that is still secure must still be large enough to adsorb all the costs Trion is putting on them.

We want hacks, and bots using hacks to stop. Gold sellers/buyers are a different problem.

Render
10-22-2014, 12:01 PM
Stop Just everyone stop!

Gold sellers have not changed their price. THAT alone should tell you everything you need to know.

If gold sellers total amount available to sell was really reduced by a plausibly large amount say 25% you would see a price fluctuation.

The amount of gold they have that is still secure must still be large enough to adsorb all the costs Trion is putting on them.

Didn't this just happen a few hours ago? Check back with your regular gold selling site in 48 hours for an update.

squidgod2000
10-22-2014, 12:03 PM
Breach of contract is a civil matter. However, you are throwing in factors that was not the original subject. The original subject is that solely selling in game gold for real life currency is against the law. In which case I have not seen any case law showing this is true. I would suspect if it was against the law there would be numerous companies taking the gold sellers to court and winning.

If it was criminal law not only financial restitution may be found but additional punishment set by the courts. Being that originally it was stated that the person would be breaking the law and that they are a criminal they were implying criminal law and not civil law.

You're making the flawed assumption that U.S. law is the only law that exists (and that it's what the OP was referring to--which it probably was, but whatever). Isn't RMT still illegal in China?

MrFabulous
10-22-2014, 12:04 PM
Didn't this just happen a few hours ago? Check back with your regular gold selling site in 48 hours for an update.

Gold sellers update their price dynamically based on levels of stock they have. you would see the price change instantly when their code detects a storage bot has been banned that had like 1M gold or something like that.

They dont check stock manually its all tallied by a program.

but yes it could start to rise over the next few days, but from initial estimations from myself by looking at current changes...... there are no changes........

FlawlessRuby
10-22-2014, 12:12 PM
I've never got any money from gold trader, but I'm scared that I will get some gold remove because of AH.

I would really want an update about this. Great action to fight gold seller, but scared at job right now :O

Noyimo
10-22-2014, 12:18 PM
I've been saying to "follow the money" and you did! BRAVO!!! I'm very happy and congratulate you!

Rhime
10-22-2014, 12:29 PM
A number of you have mentioned that you're seeing gold disappearing.

As we broadcasted in yesterday's initial blast of rapturing hackers, gold farming bots, mules, and storage accounts, we're now also taking the step of removing the gains passed on by them.

What that means is: If you bought or were gifted gold from one of them, you may see it disappear. We do have the ability to trace coin, and that's the gold that's being cleaned up right now.

The best bet is to not buy gold - It's the same people trying to crap up chat with spam and trying to fill the game with bots and landgrabs. If you bought gold from one of those sites, you are absolutely welcome to try to go back to them for a refund, but we will not be returning gold purchased or gifted from goldsellers and botters. It's off in the ether from whence it came.

This! I hope all you gold buyers spent ALOT of real coin for cheating purposes and end up seriously missing that money in the end..♥♥♥♥ you!

Relient
10-22-2014, 12:37 PM
Breach of contract is a civil matter. However, you are throwing in factors that was not the original subject. The original subject is that solely selling in game gold for real life currency is against the law. In which case I have not seen any case law showing this is true. I would suspect if it was against the law there would be numerous companies taking the gold sellers to court and winning.

If it was criminal law not only financial restitution may be found but additional punishment set by the courts. Being that originally it was stated that the person would be breaking the law and that they are a criminal they were implying criminal law and not civil law.

Lets get some facts straight before jumping the gun.

A) This is not about America's Legal System as yet as it has not even entered the picture.

B) When you made your account, you agreed to sign yourself into a contract of service with Trion Worlds and as such, you have to abide by what the contract says. The contract is the Terms of Service, otherwise referred to as ToS.

C) One of the terms in the ToS is that you do not own the account or the items associated with the account and, as such, cannot sell them for any monetary value outside of the game.

Now, in the case of buying gold from a gold seller, you have indirectly broken this contract with Trion because, even though you are not the one selling the gold, you are still participating in an act that goes against the ToS, aka the contract with Trion Worlds.

If you charge back your account because Trion takes away the gold that you purchased from the gold seller, then they have grounds to go after you. You are aware that selling ingame items is against the ToS and you are aware that you are taking part in an act that goes against the terms of the contract you have with Trion Worlds. I believe the term used here is Complicity, though this is used in Criminal Law; basically means that the defendant can be accounted for actions of another due to prior knowledge of that another's crime. English translation, even if you are not the one selling, you still have knowledge that the person selling you gold is going against the ToS and therefore, you can be held accountable as you helped this person in their actions.

Now, as for your state laws, they only come into effect once anything is filed in the courts. Meaning, what comes into play is the question of whether or not your actions, as the consumer, knowingly broke the terms of service with Trion Worlds. State Law will only look at whether or not you broke that contract in any way, even if you did it indirectly through buying gold. If found that you did break the terms of service with Trion, then they have valid reason to ban you or take away the items that you got through illegitimate ways.

Everything isn't as black and white like some people are making it out to be.

Nerelith
10-22-2014, 12:39 PM
Lol your oso 1 track minded, i have not bought gold, and never will, i dont need to, i have alot of farms runnign with my brothers we do alot of trade runs, So keep your pointless sarcastic coments to yourself,

i gtg to work i'll catch up on this in the morning..

but another offical response would be nice

i have however just cancelled my sub.. GG trion if we cant even use the AH this aint the game for me

Translation of above.

" I Bought Gold, I had fun thinking I'd never get caught, I got caught. Now I lost all my ill gotten gains, and My Gold. I'm gonna rage quit."

My answer:

You are a cancer to the community, a tumor. We do not want you, we do not need you, you will not be missed.

Stugots
10-22-2014, 12:41 PM
I am a tad confused...

You can purchase APEX and sell on AH, which is legit correct? However, if a gold farmer purchased your APEX on the AH you lose the gold you got for that APEX, which you legally purchased and the gold farmer loses their creds/apex/etc? So essentially the person that purchased the APEX from Trion legally and posted it on the game AH legally gets screwed out of their moneys?

Am I missing something?

P.S. - I am all for trying to get rid of real money gold sellers/buyers (BTW APEX is essentially legal gold selling/buying). However, I am not for individuals that followed the ToS and due to Trion's crappy design are now going to be penalized.

Zavulon
10-22-2014, 12:52 PM
So...if i have been running my trade packs and selling mats and someone bought them i'll lose money at this point...seriously ?! how is that even remotely fair to the legit players who have been super annoyed by the BS gold farmers/land claimers i'm stuck with a 8x8 and buying mats off AH to then make packs and run over sea's just to make money because BS people buy up land by the handfuls. Give us the ability to just destroy their god damn houses and do not take legit earned ( AH earned) money.


Or if you are taking the money- give back people the items they sold for said money so they can now attempt to re-sell it.

http://nbatitlechase.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/gregg-popovich-laughing-gif.gif

Expendable
10-22-2014, 12:54 PM
A number of you have mentioned that you're seeing gold disappearing.

As we broadcasted in yesterday's initial blast of rapturing hackers, gold farming bots, mules, and storage accounts, we're now also taking the step of removing the gains passed on by them.

What that means is: If you bought or were gifted gold from one of them, you may see it disappear. We do have the ability to trace coin, and that's the gold that's being cleaned up right now.

The best bet is to not buy gold - It's the same people trying to crap up chat with spam and trying to fill the game with bots and landgrabs. If you bought gold from one of those sites, you are absolutely welcome to try to go back to them for a refund, but we will not be returning gold purchased or gifted from goldsellers and botters. It's off in the ether from whence it came.


You mean gold not purchased from your scummy official cash shop. Buy more RNG Whale Trap Boxes guys! That's the official way to get illicit gains!

Shayley
10-22-2014, 12:56 PM
♥♥♥♥ off. If something someone sold was bought by a hacker/gold buyer that they have no knowledge of them doing, why the ♥♥♥♥ should that person get punished. Kindly pull your head out of your ♥♥♥.

You sound like another mad boy who bought gold and got it taken away from him.

Zavulon
10-22-2014, 01:00 PM
You mean gold not purchased from your scummy official cash shop. Buy more RNG Whale Trap Boxes guys! That's the official way to get illicit gains!

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Ha_5d733b_2957038.jpg

griffith181
10-22-2014, 01:02 PM
Get those chinese gold buying morons!

Nerelith
10-22-2014, 01:02 PM
As I understand it. If someone that Bought gold from a Gold seller buys something off you on the AH, you keep the gold, they get the item, but they then get the amount of gold they bought subtracted from their balance.

If you di a straight player to player trade, where the Gold Buyer gave you gold, In exchage for something else. THIS Might be a problem, as opening a private trade window, and receiving Gold from a person that bought gold, may look to Trion as if a person that bought gold, GIFTED you Gold.

They may seize that Gold.

Lesson, use the AH and game sanctioned ways of trading. Personal trading with strangers...." Just say no."

Nerelith
10-22-2014, 01:05 PM
♥♥♥♥ off. If something someone sold was bought by a hacker/gold buyer that they have no knowledge of them doing, why the ♥♥♥♥ should that person get punished. Kindly pull your head out of your ♥♥♥.

If you own a store, and someone buys something off you with a counterfeit bill. And you take the Bill to the bank, where it is discovered to be counterfeit....

The Secret Service and Bank personnel will take your counterfeit bill... and will NOT replace it with a real one. Sucks...but that's how things go...

Stonelotus
10-22-2014, 01:06 PM
I would hope that all gold that comes from a successful auction house sale would not come directly from the buyer himself but rather from the auction system itself, as opposed to gold directly traded through a trade window.

Nerelith
10-22-2014, 01:12 PM
Stop Just everyone stop!

Gold sellers have not changed their price. THAT alone should tell you everything you need to know.

If gold sellers total amount available to sell was really reduced by a plausibly large amount say 25% you would see a price fluctuation.

The amount of gold they have that is still secure must still be large enough to adsorb all the costs Trion is putting on them.

We want hacks, and bots using hacks to stop. Gold sellers/buyers are a different problem.


Wrong. The problem is Not the people selling gold. The problem, as in Most Black market transactions, is the demand.

As long as people want Illegal gold someone will supply it. Bann the seller, but I would go further, I would bann the purchaser as well.

The people that BUY the Gold, are the demand. What trion is doing is, to scare the crap out of those BUYING the gold. If the demand drops, the gold sellers may go elsewhere.

Think of it like you have a red light district in a major city, if all you do is Lock up the streetwalkers , they will come back, because the Johns do not care How many prostitutes get arrested, and the prostitutes will Just plead out etc.. and be back on the streets.

The BEST way to handle this is arrest the Johns, have them call their wives to explain. This puts the fear of the law on the purchaser. That Lowers demand. By Lowering demand you do more to get rid of the streetwalkers. They will Not stay where there are no customers. There will be no customers because no John wishes to face his wife and say " Hun bail me out, I was caught by a cop pretending to be a hooker."

The same here. Scare the crap out of the Gold BUYERS. if they spend monry buy 5K gold, and then boom... it's ALL Gone... trust me they just lost their gold, and the money it took to BUY the gold...

it's not Likely that they will buy Gold from a gold seller any time soon. Especially if they have NO idea when it might be done again.

Yarnz
10-22-2014, 01:41 PM
And then the economy goes to ♥♥♥♥, all the prices went up.

Skymax
10-22-2014, 01:46 PM
Lol your oso 1 track minded, i have not bought gold, and never will, i dont need to, i have alot of farms runnign with my brothers we do alot of trade runs, So keep your pointless sarcastic coments to yourself,

i gtg to work i'll catch up on this in the morning..

but another offical response would be nice

i have however just cancelled my sub.. GG trion if we cant even use the AH this aint the game for me

You state, "I have a lot of farms", you would throw all that away on principal?

But if you are so ethical and are leaving Patron over it then I can have one of your abandoned properties right? Thanks!

Raizen
10-22-2014, 01:48 PM
what about gold made from selling stuff on AH?If that gold was from a gold seller,or someone who got gold from them will it be taken away?I don't have any gold to lose,but would like to know for future reference

Riggsville
10-22-2014, 01:51 PM
remove the gold fine
but their accounts should at least be reset to ground zero - level 1 with no assets
prefer a permanent ban but looks like that isn't what happens

Darklynx
10-22-2014, 02:06 PM
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/TheMissPelled/1-2.jpg

Zavulon
10-22-2014, 02:08 PM
remove the gold fine
but their accounts should at least be reset to ground zero - level 1 with no assets
prefer a permanent ban but looks like that isn't what happens

Getting yourself stripped of irl cash is a fine punishment

Zephirisz
10-22-2014, 02:09 PM
Good job! Finally action being taken. Well done.

Rostrax
10-22-2014, 02:25 PM
Yes, good job trying to ensure gold is made from Trion shop instead of bots. This action isn't for the players. It's for Trions quarterly earnings

Hunchentoot
10-22-2014, 02:38 PM
Yes, good job trying to ensure gold is made from Trion shop instead of bots. This action isn't for the players. It's for Trions quarterly earnings

Depends upon one's perspective. There's nothing wrong with a for-profit company trying to make a profit. Especially, when some of that profit is spent towards future game enhancements.

Really, the gold farmers can just go farm themselves!

Reznal
10-22-2014, 02:46 PM
Yes, good job trying to ensure gold is made from Trion shop instead of bots. This action isn't for the players. It's for Trions quarterly earnings

I really hate people like you.. You do realize Trion is a company?
The ONLY reason they are the publisher of this game is to make money, if they couldn't make money they wouldn't be doing it, same as the reason the game was made..
Of course They are in it for the money that's the main thing for any business, but to do this they have to look after the customers, and by Hitting the gold farmers and their bots this pleases the customers which in turn brings up their revenue.

GailMacFade
10-22-2014, 03:11 PM
Don't be an idiot and buy gold illegally. Yes, this IS against the law. Not only are you breaking Trions rules but you are a real life criminal.
Another one who lives in a computer game.

let me sum it up for you:
1. Gold selling sites are not illegal, they sell services. I can hire a person to play the game for me and earn gold for me and it's not illegal.
2. There is no law against it
3. People who buy gold are not criminals
4. Gold buyers can be banned or their gold removed, because the service provided by Trion in this case, can be terminated or adjusted at any point by Trion. It's not a law, in case you didn't get it first time. It's a private company policy.

p.s. Nice PR Trion!

Inky
10-22-2014, 03:24 PM
As much as I want to say this is an amazing step forward, I just lost hundreds of gold on one of my characters because of this and I don't think punishing the unknowing is right. Earlier in the game, someone gave me a large sum of money to make him a set of T6 armor. I was suspicious of getting such a large sum of money but he assured me that he got it through fishing and as we all know, fishing is broken as hell when it comes to getting gold. I went about making him the armor and we agree'd on 400g for services. Almost a week later now; I sign in to find my gold is has all about vanished. I was about to submit a ticket when I ran into this thread. So as much as I agree with the removal of gold from people who bought it; punishing people who had nothing to do with it or had no knowledge of it is kind of silly.

Rostrax
10-22-2014, 03:24 PM
I don't care they deleted gold, but people thinking it was for the playerbase is just wrong. They are pulling attention away from the real problems with a move to pad their bank. Their revenue will grow because of all the people with expendable income trying to get their gold back lol not because the player base is happy. I think it's a bit shady that's all

Mazrim
10-22-2014, 03:28 PM
This is ridiculous i can see burning the bot account and anyone they gave gold to, but to remove the gold from the game wherever it has migrated to is moronic least this proves to me ill never buy apex to auction off, maybe a gold seller buys it on ah and im screwed

Keno the Rat
10-22-2014, 03:34 PM
A number of you have mentioned that you're seeing gold disappearing.

As we broadcasted in yesterday's initial blast of rapturing hackers, gold farming bots, mules, and storage accounts, we're now also taking the step of removing the gains passed on by them.

What that means is: If you bought or were gifted gold from one of them, you may see it disappear. We do have the ability to trace coin, and that's the gold that's being cleaned up right now.

The best bet is to not buy gold - It's the same people trying to crap up chat with spam and trying to fill the game with bots and landgrabs. If you bought gold from one of those sites, you are absolutely welcome to try to go back to them for a refund, but we will not be returning gold purchased or gifted from goldsellers and botters. It's off in the ether from whence it came.

Which begs the question, what happens if they already spent it? Which, in turn, begs the question...you did remove the gold before you told everyone you were going to remove the gold, right? RIGHT?

Amber
10-22-2014, 03:37 PM
This is the dumbest thing I have been a company do.

Ok, yes get rid of the gold sellers, botters and hackers!

HOWEVER

if you did nothing at the start to prevent these gold selling businesses to do business then you should just punish them, not the ppl who paid money to get a ingame item..

that's like cops only busting people who buy pot and leave the dealers alone..

the only reason you deleted gold from buyers is because it takes away potential buyers of credits through your marketplace.
I hope you're not serious. /facepalm

Edit: I like the system where people who buy the gold get punished (talking account wipes & then banned if they keep doing it) along with the sellers (perma-banned). You're hurting the game and you're hurting the company running it. (:

Lathais
10-22-2014, 03:37 PM
that's like cops only busting people who buy pot and leave the dealers alone..

no, it's more like the cops taking the money from the gas station the dealer filled up at. It's ♥♥♥♥ing ******ed. The guy who was not involved at all(the gas station) lost the money and is not getting the gas back either. If I sold a piece of land for 1k gold legitimately to a guy who bought that gold I get the gold removed from me and I don't get the land back. It's sitting there for 2 weeks and I have a small chance to get it back, if I buy the design again. I am just plain screwed.

Rostrax
10-22-2014, 03:51 PM
I hope you're not serious. /facepalm

Edit: I like the system where people who buy the gold get punished (talking account wipes & then banned if they keep doing it) along with the sellers (perma-banned). You're hurting the game and you're hurting the company running it. (:

Bans on the buyers will never happen with this type of pay model. They would be banning all the players that have the expendable income to buy their ingame market items too.

Aeric Silverleaf
10-22-2014, 04:06 PM
What about the houses and farms bought with said I'll gotten gains?

Sungam
10-22-2014, 04:09 PM
If i saw a land-grabber but disappeared too fast to report, but took screen shot of the name on the scarecrow, how to proceed? Not that he sold the scarecrow in the same day, probably in their damn site.

mrhorseshoe
10-22-2014, 04:21 PM
Welp, now I will be too paranoid to sell any kind of big ticket item. Game is DEAD.

Katarina
10-22-2014, 04:56 PM
I don't support illegal bots or hackers in game never have, and I have hear about how much hacking their is in Arche Age as it is with this said I would like to post my thoughts on this.

I think illegal gold should be removed, however I support players who wish to make trades among friends and RMT at their own risk of course 9 out of 10 RMT transactions I did in EVE Online were never flagged for investigation due to money laundry and when one was flagged I knew never to use the company again because they had turned to illegal practices something I never support, and neither do I support gold spammers or buy from them in any games, although there are legit sites such as Player Auctions.

With this said.

. Never buy Gold Using Pay Pal, Use a credit-card in-case of fraud you contact your local bank and claim you never got your product get your money back, should you use third parties as the original poster said your free to try to get your money back (Pay Pal) Generally does not handle Intangible Goods but this might change in the future.

. Gold can easily be Launder through Auction House, Contracts, or other methods in games similar to EVE Online never do a transaction Face to Face, its a method used by Gold Sellers and while GM's can track this I have no idea if they will get involved in a trade lets say I stick an Apple on the Auction house for 1000 Gold, and a gold seller buys it, its a legit transaction getting involved with such can create such a mess I would think.

The best way to get rid of gold spammers is not have an economic system at all remove all currency from a game players trade in game items for other in game items etc, the down side no universal currency, and RMT will still happen on sites that sell items for real money.

Also you are correct EVE did negative balances but that doesn't matter this is why you use other methods like the auction house to do RMT, and for the record the only reason my transaction was flagged in EVE is because the company quit doing contracts which a contract in EVE is legally binding like in Real Life you accept to pay a million ISK for something that is the agreement if a GM gets involved that is where you debate reverse the transactions.

A better solution, Require that all trades be held for 48 hours that are placed on the auction house so basically transactions can be cancel by GM the problem players would be unhappy in the end no way to stop RMT, instead just get better Bot detection, and start banning bots / cheaters

A good question is why doesn't Arche Age just support RMT Itself, juts allow players to sell in game Cash Shop Items, and exchange Cash Shop currency for in game gold on the auction house, problem solved.

Kaosfury
10-22-2014, 04:58 PM
So people are missing gold? Honest people? Lets see some numbers..... 5 gold? 50?

MickeyJ
10-22-2014, 04:58 PM
Almost sounds like the servers need to be CLEANSED and by that I mean FULL RESET of all servers and RESET everyone's PATRON time.

Everything that has happened in the last 5 weeks was a test run to close as many bot and hacking loopholes as possible.

QueueAge to begin again...

Tinkerz
10-22-2014, 04:59 PM
Finaly some action. I just hope its not to late^^This so much. I'm really heartened at Trion's actions and now I'm starting to feel hopeful for the game again!

grant
10-22-2014, 05:09 PM
♥♥♥♥ you trion you know that your update is being flaged as a virus and removed for 2 dasy now and do nothing fix this ♥♥♥♥ing bs post a stable exe i can download so i dont have to reinstall the hole ♥♥♥♥ing game virus and all

Amber
10-22-2014, 05:11 PM
Bans on the buyers will never happen with this type of pay model. They would be banning all the players that have the expendable income to buy their ingame market items too.

I don't think it's 'all' but I know why they won't. Doesn't change my preference. :D

grant
10-22-2014, 05:12 PM
♥♥♥♥ you trion post a stable exe to fix this bs i dont want your ♥♥♥♥ing virus again

Shayley
10-22-2014, 05:37 PM
♥♥♥♥ you trion post a stable exe to fix this bs i dont want your ♥♥♥♥ing virus again

How about you educate yourself a bit and learn how to add files to an exception list. Takes literally 15 seconds.

♥♥♥♥♥ing here won't fix anything

Elektra
10-22-2014, 05:59 PM
This is the dumbest thing I have been a company do.

Ok, yes get rid of the gold sellers, botters and hackers!

HOWEVER

if you did nothing at the start to prevent these gold selling businesses to do business then you should just punish them, not the ppl who paid money to get a ingame item..

that's like cops only busting people who buy pot and leave the dealers alone..

the only reason you deleted gold from buyers is because it takes away potential buyers of credits through your marketplace.


Go read the Terms of Use of Trion that you checked and agreed to when you initially signed up. Did you honestly not think that purchasing gold from outside of Trion or via gaining it as intended through active game play is legit? Come on now, you can't be serious.....lol. It's clearly stated in several areas when it comes to "virtual items" which the gold falls under. Can't really blame anyone but yourself if you didn't read what you signed up for, now can you?

Banrose
10-22-2014, 06:11 PM
Happy to have it removed. Please don't rollback. 1 week rollback and I would be level 1 again! :(

Sent
10-22-2014, 06:24 PM
I love it!

Great work Trion.

Gold buyers, how about buying some nice and shiny APEX instead of buying from the hackers, bots, and spammers?

Herpicus
10-22-2014, 06:32 PM
dat cash grab is real! Why buy apex they will just take that gold away from you too! Just pay your patron and do trade runs! Can't have money going away from tritons pockets!

Herpicus
10-22-2014, 06:35 PM
Also perfectly timed with new cash shop items. Dat timing is real!

baned
10-22-2014, 06:38 PM
if gold is removed, why is there 10+ diferent botters , marketing their multiple diferent sites about buying gold, and i mean, tons of gold!

ArcheRage
10-22-2014, 06:47 PM
Why do you not BAN those buying gold ? Surely it's against your EULA, yet you just take their gold which is nothing more than a slap on the wrists

You're pretty messed with the way you do things Trion, the buyers are the reason for this cancerous plague and all you do is take away their gold ?

DireSwift
10-22-2014, 07:05 PM
Good lord the speculation in here is thicker than shi&.

Good, glad to see any gains attributed to gold selling gone. This thread is awfully short though, filled with the same handful of people over and over again for there to be some massive wipe of gold gotten by so called "legit" means.

That alone says something. When people are complaining in mass you get several hundred pages in less than 3 hrs. It has been nearly half a day and we are sitting at what? 19 pages with the vast majority of it pure speculation, armchair lawyers having a ridiculous conversation about what actions in the digital world classify you as a criminal in the real world, and a couple people saying they lost their legit money.

Instead of jumping for reasons to get mad about something think rationally about it for a minute.

MikkeHJ
10-22-2014, 07:41 PM
I was a gold buyer, got wiped off 500G. It was a risk I knew about when I did it. 45Bucks down the drain. Anyway, I don't whine about or or lie trying to "trick" the GM into believe those golds were legit like many of you above me do. I broke the game rule, I got punished. Simple as that and lesson learned. Guess it's legit from now on.. No way I'm risking losing that much again.. I'd rather go for Apex selling lol.

Anyway, it was a great hand in by Trion, but, I still see tons of gold spammers. I don't think simply wiping gold from buyers and sellers mule will to the trick, as well, they can still continue doing it and trying to bypass the system somehow.

Corvox
10-22-2014, 07:49 PM
http://i.imgur.com/PbXHk16.png

Basically they are only removing gold that was traded or mailed by the accounts they have on record as a gold seller.

Sorphius
10-22-2014, 07:57 PM
no, it's more like the cops taking the money from the gas station the dealer filled up at. It's ♥♥♥♥ing ******ed. The guy who was not involved at all(the gas station) lost the money and is not getting the gas back either. If I sold a piece of land for 1k gold legitimately to a guy who bought that gold I get the gold removed from me and I don't get the land back. It's sitting there for 2 weeks and I have a small chance to get it back, if I buy the design again. I am just plain screwed.
In the real world it's the person who gets caught with the counterfeit cash that gets screwed. Sure they'll try to track down the person printing it, but more often than not the person hurt the most is the single mom whose $20 bill that she never thought twice about gets confiscated.

Thiuss
10-22-2014, 08:05 PM
Ban the gold sellers. Great news. Remove the gold from their accounts. Great.

Ban people who bought from known gold sellers. Cool. Remove that gold from their accounts as well. Also cool.

However. Taking money from Joe Farmer because he LEGITIMATELY sold some potions on the AH to an unknown person who happened to be one of the above people is not cool. Not cool at all.

Disconcerted
10-22-2014, 08:17 PM
So I am thinking that my accounts were banned because I play the commodities like a mad man, and since I concentrated on high end items flipping them im sure its because of this gold thing that I got banned, but all I did was play the market. however, and im sorry to post this here but scapes had said something

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?97393-Scapes-my-son-account-is-banned

about how the person can do an appeal from the email that they received. I didn't even receive an email yet been banned a couple hours. got booted from game by gm while running to the printing press to make todays regrade scrolls.

but since I didn't get the email I just wrote direct to the appeal address. if there is anything that I can do in addition to this to help resolve my problem that anyone can point me to, then it would be much appreciated.

Deathdealer
10-22-2014, 08:18 PM
So I am thinking that my accounts were banned because I play the commodities like a mad man, and since I concentrated on high end items flipping them im sure its because of this gold thing that I got banned, but all I did was play the market. however, and im sorry to post this here but scapes had said something

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?97393-Scapes-my-son-account-is-banned

about how the person can do an appeal from the email that they received. I didn't even receive an email yet been banned a couple hours. got booted from game by gm while running to the printing press to make todays regrade scrolls.

but since I didn't get the email I just wrote direct to the appeal address. if there is anything that I can do in addition to this to help resolve my problem that anyone can point me to, then it would be much appreciated.

Quit duping bro

Sataanic
10-22-2014, 08:29 PM
The hack shield is giving out a lot of false positives, what's trino going to do about this? I just want replies to support tickets to resolve the issue asap... First people get falsly banned by the anti spam tool, then alot of people get falsly baned for "breaking a tos" which isnt specified... what's next? people getting banned for helping guildies with land and gold?!...

Celestaire
10-22-2014, 08:29 PM
Someone randomly came up and handed me some gold, and logged. They spoke, had a normal name, and weren't otherwise behaving like a bot. It was 26g. I don't want to spend it, because it's probably laundered, but what to do with it? I can't just dump it on the ground like I can my other stuff.

Trion and XL really dropped the ball here. The only thing that's going to fix the damage is going back to the beginning. Wipe the servers, refund our patron stats, and actually TRY to roll the thing out correctly, and keep it regulated better than just setting Hackshield and leaving everyone to their devices. The economy is already broken.

I've started adding bots to my friends list just so I can keep a count on how many there are, what levels they are (so where they'll be most likely), discern who they likely belong to, and be able to see when they're actually being removed. Still a LOT of work to do.

It's sad when a game is so much better in alpha than it is in release.

devo3176
10-22-2014, 08:33 PM
If you sold worms for 200 gold a pop you were buying gold. Trion should however return any and all items that were sold to cover legit seller intentions.

All i have ever done is sold medincial powder for abotu 1g 50 or worms for like 2g, and i have had 14g removed

I think they have made a ♥♥♥♥ up again, like they did at release with every 1 getting patron

mrhorseshoe
10-22-2014, 08:39 PM
So my friend sold this guy a carrot dash for 1500g yesterday. The gold is now gone and the buyer is proudly riding carrot dash around town. All transactions involving bought gold should be REVERSED. A lot of innocent people were burned by this. My friend is quitting the game now.

satinembers
10-22-2014, 08:55 PM
Before work today I did my usual routine which is check auction mail and relist items to sell. Mostly Shatigon's Sandglass: Spoonful's and Dahuta's Bubble. I just logged on from getting home from work and see that I have no new messages, when I usually have a mailbox full. I check my auctions and almost everything I listed today is missing. I applaud taking a stand against people who directly trade with gold sellers, but when you have no direct control over who purchases on the AH that's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I'm out about 20g, which isn't really that much although now I need to scrounge up money to get mats for my dailies.

I hope these "adjustments" to the game economy don't become a regular occurrence.

Rsaetan
10-22-2014, 09:19 PM
Gold buyers get their gold taken away, & people rejoice with trolls galore, imagining the tears of those other players & dreaming of thousands of 24x24 & 16x16 areas opening up.

Reality: most of the land will remain as is, & the chance of getting land will plummet while the price of buying land skyrockets.

Gold buyers items that were bought are taken - players rejoice with trolls galore, imagining the tears of those players & dreaming of a world where "the economy" is now their friend

Reality: Normal players lose big time with the legit items they sold, while the Zerg guilds that have been swarming fishing spawns like locusts, dominating the economy and forcefully restructuring the economy & land control through pure economic force. Small guilds & lone wolf players finally realize that the first 2 weeks of game launch etched in stone each player's role on their server, & their role was "peasant."

Gold buyers have all of their gold taken & players rejoice!!! FINALLY some justice!! I can finally get someone to buy my Delphinad celestial armor/weapon item for 7k gold!!

Reality: Lolz....who has THAT much gold?? I'll give you 400g & a handshake.

Gold buyers are forever banished from the realm!! Zerg guilds rejoice as this is good news leading up to the release of Auroria! We shall have our castles by pure numbers!! Quickly! Continue to craft!!

Reality: Every free2play & streamer guild that's spent every waking hour PvPing since launch is largely unaffected, & r**es ur face on Auroria launch with still largely unaddressed hacks, & exploits, while wearing all the sweet high end dungeon & kraken drops they got from exploiting those things as well. No castles for you! /getRekt

I'm not supporting gold buying in any way, nor feeling sorry for gold buyers, but the general consensus on what this ACTUALLY means for the community is way off. Yuck it up while you can. Hold on to these good moments for when the tsunami of your tears are flooding Nuia & Harani when reality sets in.

Quoted for truth.... keep living in that fake prefect world where this is going to solve anything. I cannot wait for the threads of whinners about prices on AH if in fact trion actually does get the gold gets purged. Remember this gold is not duped, it is farmed and then sold for RL $ on 3rd party site. I know some of you ignorant fanbois like to pretend gold is sold and that it is chinese but it is mostly american companies doing it and they are going it with in game mechanics.

Silowyi
10-22-2014, 11:31 PM
Gold sellers update their price dynamically based on levels of stock they have. you would see the price change instantly when their code detects a storage bot has been banned that had like 1M gold or something like that.

They dont check stock manually its all tallied by a program.

but yes it could start to rise over the next few days, but from initial estimations from myself by looking at current changes...... there are no changes........

I didn't know anyone who doesn't buy gold was actually aware of the price of gold before and after this happened? Why would you know what the price was if you didn't know this was coming?

Just curious.

jimredtalon
10-23-2014, 12:04 AM
Well I am not worried at all about this because all my money came from trade packs, save for some auction house sales and all those were sold at reasonable prices. Honestly now that I think about how many were caught boting and gold buying the skewed auction house prices and the crazy ups and downs in the in game economy all make sense now. I am very happy that they took every copper of the ill-gotten money out of circulation. I am sorry for those that thought it was legit and got burned but with less bought gold in the game the prices of every thing in the AH should normalize and be more reasonable so while you may have less or get less you will need less in the long term.

Valkyrior
10-23-2014, 03:58 AM
http://www.trionworlds.com/en/legal/terms-of-use/

Section 2. ADDITIONAL LICENSE LIMITATIONS

You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:

B.
(c) for gathering Virtual Items and/or resources for sale outside the Game; or (d) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, (e.g., power-leveling, etc…);


I swear, people don't know what they are signing up for anymore.
-____-

i did notice a possible omission

it doesnt say purchasing virtual items for use within the game, it says for sale outside the game..

which means as TOS is now that selling is illegal , buying not specified

maybe its time to ammend it?

BJUmholtz
10-23-2014, 04:36 AM
Thank you for your hard work.

Tonzskie
10-23-2014, 05:12 AM
I don' know where to post this.. I'm noob when it come's to forums.. but please unbanned my friend.. He didn't do anything wrong..


This is my friends account.. he got banned for no reason...

Question Reference # 141023-001494
Date Created: 10/22/2014 10:10 PM
Date Last Updated: 10/22/2014 10:10 PM
Status: Unresolved

zaffi
10-23-2014, 06:11 AM
What about the ppl that used land bot ? what will happen to those

Sorphius
10-23-2014, 06:47 AM
What about the ppl that used land bot ? what will happen to those

They will be banned (if caught) and the properties will go up for grabs when the taxes expire.

zaffi
10-23-2014, 07:00 AM
Well we seen a lot of ppl doing it modifing archeage folder or by injection i know atleast 5 ppl on eanna haranya side

Spaccie
10-23-2014, 07:44 AM
So what if i rob a bank, and all the money i got from robbing the bank i blow on Credits.

and in the progress of wasting all these credits i destroy a economy on a server because of this.



And now the bank knocks on your door demanding all the money back. even tho you didnt know i robbed a bank for the credits.

Halfbaked
10-23-2014, 09:16 AM
Then maybe you should shut the AH down cos there i got all my gold from, From selling stuff on there,

I cant control who buys it can i ? Yet your peoonalising me,

All my gold from the auction house is still here!

Don't be mad that you got caught receiveing gold, land or whatever it was from a seller. They track it and it tracked back to you. Its not that some gold seller or cheater bought something from you, its that you had gold, land, blah blah blah traced back to one of these accounts. dont feel sorry for you at all...

Halfbaked
10-23-2014, 09:18 AM
So what if i rob a bank, and all the money i got from robbing the bank i blow on Credits.

and in the progress of wasting all these credits i destroy a economy on a server because of this.



And now the bank knocks on your door demanding all the money back. even tho you didnt know i robbed a bank for the credits.

how ******ed are you. if you robbed a bank and the bank comes to your door, they know you did it dumbass and you desurve what ever the consequences are

Halfbaked
10-23-2014, 09:23 AM
So if a legit player bought APEX with cash, then sold it to some random player that paid him X amount of gold for it, you are going to take away the legit players gold and not return the APEX? Is that legal?

they are talking about the people that use bots and hacks to make money then sell in on sites like goldAH.com (I only know this site because i saw an ad for it on archeatabase.com) or the handfull of others that are out there. buying something and selling it is fine, its the botting, land grabs and so forth that ruin the game.

Halfbaked
10-23-2014, 09:26 AM
they cant do jack ♥♥♥♥ about that. xD I guess they only trace what happened the last 24 hours and remove that. They would need to reset the servers back if they would do it like they said. Trace coins my ♥♥♥. /).-

it honestly was probably added in one of the patches or maintence down time. i hate that people complain when they dont do enough and still complain when they adjust and try to tackle the problem.

T'Vestryan
10-23-2014, 09:49 AM
That is a Terms of Service and does not make it illegal in the court of law.

Its a Terms of Service, which in a court of law, with this type of lawsuit (if there was ever one) is actually considered a part of the written contract (End User License AGREEMENT) that when you hit that "I accept" Button after putting in all your information to create an account you basically just DIGITALLY signed and agreed to adhere to. So yes, while the terms of service alone wouldn't be enough to get Trion what they want, the EULA would most certainly be of great help in any case they have. The fact that no one reads these things is not the fault of the company who drew the documentation up and implemented it in their program, its the fault of the negligent user.

+1 to Trion for doing this. At this point I don't even care if I get burned I just want the bots and gold sellers gone from ArcheAge so I can start seeing more legit players instead of 20 bots running around in the end game areas farming.

PrimeFox
10-23-2014, 10:19 AM
So about that 10% credits we are missing from the store... when are we getting that?

ILLSPAWN
10-23-2014, 10:31 AM
You're making the flawed assumption that U.S. law is the only law that exists (and that it's what the OP was referring to--which it probably was, but whatever). Isn't RMT still illegal in China?


You are making the flawed assumption that I made the flawed assumption that US law is the only one that exists. The original person was paraphrasing US copyright laws when I asked which law they broke. In addition in regards to civil law the poster supplied a link to a US court case. I never stated US laws was the only law, you assumed that on your own. However, when presented with US laws as their means of reference I am to reply with laws concerning the US and not to try to derail the subject by bringing up laws in countries that were not part of the subject.

ILLSPAWN
10-23-2014, 10:55 AM
Its a Terms of Service, which in a court of law, with this type of lawsuit (if there was ever one) is actually considered a part of the written contract (End User License AGREEMENT) that when you hit that "I accept" Button after putting in all your information to create an account you basically just DIGITALLY signed and agreed to adhere to. So yes, while the terms of service alone wouldn't be enough to get Trion what they want, the EULA would most certainly be of great help in any case they have. The fact that no one reads these things is not the fault of the company who drew the documentation up and implemented it in their program, its the fault of the negligent user.

+1 to Trion for doing this. At this point I don't even care if I get burned I just want the bots and gold sellers gone from ArcheAge so I can start seeing more legit players instead of 20 bots running around in the end game areas farming.

So you just stated what I have already posted. It is at most breaking a contract which is a civil matter at most. You did not even clearly define if it is against the law. Breaking a contract and breaking the law is two different things.

Being originally the person called them criminals and they were breaking laws this would mean criminal law and not civil law. I have won lawsuits and the people are not considered criminals; they just broke the contract and in order to get what they owed me I had to take them to court in order to get it. However, it was clear in the contract they owed me money.

I would like to know what grounds the lawsuit would come under for someone buying or selling gold in game. Unless the contract specifically states they may come for monetary restitution is it even possible for it to go through and win? I have not seen one court case of this happening. This does not mean it is not possible.

Baby
10-23-2014, 11:01 AM
Good now maybe all the absolute morons trying to sell everything at prices only gold buyers can afford will stop as they'll know their easy money can just as easily disappear.

Stop charging so much for your goods, put the effort in, and be patient. The fact that people can do stupid things like sell a house for 1500g or random in game weapons for 2000g when actual real money items like APEX barely scratch 100g should make a huge impact on anyone with even half a brain.

You're selling to gold buyers, stop, and you won't lose your money. Alternatively you can keep overcharging and cry more when your easy money disappears.

Katif
10-23-2014, 11:20 AM
As I understand it. If someone that Bought gold from a Gold seller buys something off you on the AH, you keep the gold, they get the item, but they then get the amount of gold they bought subtracted from their balance.

If you di a straight player to player trade, where the Gold Buyer gave you gold, In exchage for something else. THIS Might be a problem, as opening a private trade window, and receiving Gold from a person that bought gold, may look to Trion as if a person that bought gold, GIFTED you Gold.

They may seize that Gold.



Lesson, use the AH and game sanctioned ways of trading. Personal trading with strangers...." Just say no."

but since initiating trade with another player is in game it SHOULD be a viable trade. if it wasn't then it shouldn't be an option. I buy credits from the glyph store and I sell items to peeps who yell out in trade... I meet them and trade directly with them but I don't ask them where they got their gold.. they wouldn't tell me anyway. so danged if I do and dang if I don't right?

Azuc
10-23-2014, 12:21 PM
IMHO, items bought with that gold or used to craft items with that gold should be also removed.

Irrstern
10-23-2014, 12:21 PM
trion gets corrupted more day by day :)

so if you remove gold from players cause they happened to get rich from auctionhouse cause some gold buyer buyed stuff on the auction house
you should remove your silly APEX too, because this, is the most abused money source right now.

There are plently players that used gold seller offers to buy apex from them, getting it gifted, selled the APEX for 110-150g each and spend that stuff on different stuff.
Now with this step you should even remove peoples whole wealth, every house/farm they buyed with the gold from those illegal transactions and more if you really bother about the "illegal" gold that got farmed by players and selled to players. RMT its called :)

So Why not Wipe everything give someone else the publishing rights and focus on your own Game called Rift instead of trying to get rich with your criminal actions you did with your Playerbase since Headstart of ArcheAge?

Oh yes i see it coming:

You recieved a Ban because of Trolling
Your Account got suspended
You get no Refund

For just telling true facts in an official Forum where People can write down the feedback.

Bunx
10-23-2014, 12:25 PM
Well Ive made hunrdeds, if not thousands selling on the AH in the game, and all my gold is still there. So far no one in my guild or friends have either.

There goes that AH theory for me.

Tendo X
10-23-2014, 01:11 PM
Well I'm shocked to see I lost a month of my patron sub.... Since I make most of my gold via trade runs with some coming in from AH sales. So while I understand to deletion of the Apex if it was part of the scam fest to not refund my legit gold is just cruel.

They were 68 gold and change a piece making me out of at least 136 gold. This just comes as a surprise since I am out of town and not aware of this going on at the time I purchased them. I have now 4 days to replenish the apex while I'm out of town. I only planned to do basic checkups while I'm out of town as I prefer not to play off my laptop for long.

I'll be very displeased if I lose my property as well because I cannot maintain my patron status from all this.

Although I wouldn't be surprised apex has gone up in price as well.

Tendo X
10-23-2014, 01:38 PM
Well it just appears my patron status isn't showing the correct time looking on my account it shows I have over a month still... Ugh you guys scaring me like that

outbackfu
10-23-2014, 01:58 PM
♥♥♥♥ you trion stop sending viruses stop kicking my accounts i can make faster then you can kick or block my ip why not fix the real issue and post a ♥♥♥♥ing exe we can all download and stop uploading viruses ♥♥♥♥ you trion ♥♥♥♥ you admin do something you goofs

darklinkcross
10-23-2014, 03:34 PM
have banned my account by mistake.... I do not use bots and I have not broken any rules in the game or any violation of the rules please ban to take my account...

taxcollector
10-23-2014, 03:48 PM
So about that 10% credits we are missing from the store... when are we getting that?

Can you trace 10% of money you got for my credits as a archeumfounder and remove that from your accounts? K, thanks.

Atheron
10-23-2014, 05:01 PM
Loving this, but 1 concern: How far are you tracing it? If someone sold an item on the auction house, how would they have known it was RMT gold used to buy it? So friggin glad all my gold comes from trade packs.

In other words tell me how many time I need to launder it.

Atheron
10-23-2014, 05:04 PM
trion gets corrupted more day by day :)

so if you remove gold from players cause they happened to get rich from auctionhouse cause some gold buyer buyed stuff on the auction house
you should remove your silly APEX too, because this, is the most abused money source right now.

There are plently players that used gold seller offers to buy apex from them, getting it gifted, selled the APEX for 110-150g each and spend that stuff on different stuff.
Now with this step you should even remove peoples whole wealth, every house/farm they buyed with the gold from those illegal transactions and more if you really bother about the "illegal" gold that got farmed by players and selled to players. RMT its called :)

So Why not Wipe everything give someone else the publishing rights and focus on your own Game called Rift instead of trying to get rich with your criminal actions you did with your Playerbase since Headstart of ArcheAge?

Oh yes i see it coming:

You recieved a Ban because of Trolling
Your Account got suspended
You get no Refund

For just telling true facts in an official Forum where People can write down the feedback.

What have you been smoking?

Marsblue
10-23-2014, 05:26 PM
a very common way for years to launder in game currency is to post it on the AH and buy it out. Repeat a few times and it is now on your main after going through a few people. They trace the coin and if it comes in a circle back to you, then you got caught laundering.

Judyx
10-23-2014, 05:40 PM
who noticed the one complaining got banned by Trion has some kind of google translated sentences?

Hawkan
10-23-2014, 06:58 PM
Well, I guess I won't be needing that AH license after all.

Faolchunna
10-23-2014, 07:36 PM
Since the entire economy is interconnected, the only reasonable response (by Trion standards) is to remove ALL gold and ban everybody doing things, because the things are likely scripted and run by bots. </Trion logic>

Kaldal
10-23-2014, 07:44 PM
If you get gold by a known "seller" you will have that gold removed. Use common sense

PureAngel
10-23-2014, 11:55 PM
Lol a virus?

DId you buy gold? unlucky.

Briseris
10-24-2014, 12:19 AM
so far I haven't seen legit people that didnt actually buy gold having stuff deleted so, i take that as a good sign

Good sign for the legit player indeed in this direction. But if a gold buyer buys your crafted Celestial armor you've spent much much time and money on for let's say 2000Gold, the Gold buyer will keep the armor and the legit player will see his 2000Gold disappear. Still a good sign? Not sure :D

Briseris
10-24-2014, 12:39 AM
BUT if you REALLY think of bots earning money for us: what's the SIGNIFICANT difference between getting much gold from buying Apex and getting much gold from buying from Gold sellers? the difference is that there can be as much money injected into the game economy except that Trion can have a view on how much money is effectively injected into the game. That's it in terms of the economy.

Now in terms of botting, that's WHERE Trion does not want to see them, well as a player I would prefer a chinese bot farming next to me rather than a player killing me just because he's too bored of doing something else :D

Shayley
10-24-2014, 12:49 AM
BUT if you REALLY think of bots earning money for us: what's the SIGNIFICANT difference between getting much gold from buying Apex and getting much gold from buying from Gold sellers? the difference is that there can be as much money injected into the game economy except that Trion can have a view on how much money is effectively injected into the game. That's it in terms of the economy.

Now in terms of botting, that's WHERE Trion does not want to see them, well as a player I would prefer a chinese bot farming next to me rather than a player killing me just because he's too bored of doing something else :D


Um no. Bots getting gold dumps more gold in the game that players could possibly do....therefore, increasing prices. Think about it....1000s of botters are all doing 1 thing...making gold. 1000s of players arent sitting there 24/7 making gold...meaning there is MUCH less gold in the game...meaning that prices for everything is significantly lower.

Its not about Trion wanting to make money from gold themselves. Its about regulating how much gold is in the game.

Jenelise
10-24-2014, 05:19 AM
I've only purchased Apex from Trion and sold it on the AH, yet I'm missing gold. I'm not sure where I went wrong with those transactions. On the other hand, my patron status has been extended a significant amount (according to the in game message) so I'm curious if those who are missing gold through no fault of their own are being compensated with extended patron status.

Azor Ahai
10-24-2014, 06:40 AM
I've only purchased Apex from Trion and sold it on the AH, yet I'm missing gold. I'm not sure where I went wrong with those transactions. On the other hand, my patron status has been extended a significant amount (according to the in game message) so I'm curious if those who are missing gold through no fault of their own are being compensated with extended patron status.

Probably just another patron status mistake TBH. That counter hasn't been working correctly since day 1, they said to refer to account status in glyph account management for the correct date.

Azor Ahai
10-24-2014, 06:45 AM
Good sign for the legit player indeed in this direction. But if a gold buyer buys your crafted Celestial armor you've spent much much time and money on for let's say 2000Gold, the Gold buyer will keep the armor and the legit player will see his 2000Gold disappear. Still a good sign? Not sure :D

Is this confirmed? I haven't read the forums in a couple days but if this type of stuff is really happening there will be a mass exodus. Fortunately I am broke, so there's very little chance of me losing much if anything.

(I did turn logs into lumber to get carp up, hoping all that money I got from Lumber doesn't get retracted)

4jacks
10-24-2014, 06:50 AM
Is this confirmed? I haven't read the forums in a couple days but if this type of stuff is really happening there will be a mass exodus. Fortunately I am broke, so there's very little chance of me losing much if anything.

(I did turn logs into lumber to get carp up, hoping all that money I got from Lumber doesn't get retracted)


I can't make heads or tails out of what is going on. I am glad they are doing something, but at the same time one dude posted a screen shot of 14gold being removed from his account. No one in their right mind can tell me he went to some Gold Spam website and purchased 14 gold. We all see the spam, it is sold in blocks of 100 at a minimum, most of it looks like blocks of 1,000. So I honestly believe the guy, when he says that he SOLD something on AH for 14 gold, and that he happened to sell it to a Gold Buyer. Not his fault.

Kynneth
10-24-2014, 07:10 AM
When will it be safe to participate in the economy again? As it stands now selling anything to anybody carries the risk that the gold is tainted and will be deleted at the whim of Trion. The only person who loses in this is the last one who gets stuck with the tainted gold. Everyone else along the chain gets to keep the items they bought while the producer of the good gets shafted. Any halfway intelligent person who buys gold will just immediately purchase what they want with it and escape without any punishment at all.

People who actually spend real money to purchase Trion goods and then sell for in game gold that Trion later deletes are going to have a very strong case to get a full refund from Trion. As it stands now I really don't want to play anymore if is going to keep happening.

Odeath
10-24-2014, 07:44 AM
Looks like the only SAFE gold acquisition is via Trade packs and growing all your own stuff yourself.

Attorneyatlawl
10-24-2014, 08:13 AM
Um no. Bots getting gold dumps more gold in the game that players could possibly do....therefore, increasing prices. Think about it....1000s of botters are all doing 1 thing...making gold. 1000s of players arent sitting there 24/7 making gold...meaning there is MUCH less gold in the game...meaning that prices for everything is significantly lower.

Its not about Trion wanting to make money from gold themselves. Its about regulating how much gold is in the game.

This is correct, botting/illicit gold sellers inflate the economy with artificial extra goods and injected gold. Buying APEX from Trion or similar to sell for in-game gold does not, while buying gold from these scumbags causes, other than the plague that botting is, extra gold to be put into existence in the economy thus inflating prices. Basically one generates unnatural amounts of in-game gold which causes higher gold-based prices for everyone in-game, clogs server queues and causes latency due to artificially higher server load, and generally pisses actual players off not to mention supports third-party gold sellers that violate TOS + oftentimes use credit card fraud to supplement their income, while the other simply transfers who owns it (the latter being buying APEX from Trion which is legitimate).

Long story short, please stop griefing your fellow gamers by buying from goldselling slimebags ;), and supporting people who 99% of the time are participating in real-life illegal activities (well-known thing in the goldselling industry i.e. hacking/credit card fraud). Just don't do it. Even if you want to do the whole pay-to-win thing, just be selfish even and think of your account being banned when you could have just bought APEX from trion :p.

Macha
10-24-2014, 08:33 AM
While I understand some of people's concerns about gold being laundered through AH, ultimately as long as Trion tracked the source of the gold and the people went to in the first place that could be completely irrelevant. All the need to do is take a note of how much gold a player that purchased/hacked gold actually purchased or hacked and remove that specific amount from the players in question. Simple solution, that has 0 chance of wrongfully impacting players that received gold though the AH. Or better yet remove ALL of that person's gold just to be extra sure and cause some QQ. Simple solution with minimal backlash potential.

Goethe
10-24-2014, 08:38 AM
Um no. Bots getting gold dumps more gold in the game that players could possibly do....therefore, increasing prices. Think about it....1000s of botters are all doing 1 thing...making gold. 1000s of players arent sitting there 24/7 making gold...meaning there is MUCH less gold in the game...meaning that prices for everything is significantly lower.

Its not about Trion wanting to make money from gold themselves. Its about regulating how much gold is in the game.

This is correct, botting/illicit gold sellers inflate the economy with artificial extra goods and injected gold. Buying APEX from Trion or similar to sell for in-game gold does not, while buying gold from these scumbags causes, other than the plague that botting is, extra gold to be put into existence in the economy thus inflating prices. Basically one generates unnatural amounts of in-game gold which causes higher gold-based prices for everyone in-game, clogs server queues and causes latency due to artificially higher server load, and generally pisses actual players off not to mention supports third-party gold sellers that violate TOS + oftentimes use credit card fraud to supplement their income, while the other simply transfers who owns it (the latter being buying APEX from Trion which is legitimate).

Long story short, please stop griefing your fellow gamers by buying from goldselling slimebags ;), and supporting people who 99% of the time are participating in real-life illegal activities (well-known thing in the goldselling industry i.e. hacking/credit card fraud). Just don't do it. Even if you want to do the whole pay-to-win thing, just be selfish even and think of your account being banned when you could have just bought APEX from trion :p.

You and Shayley deserve a cookie for stating the obvious that a lot of ppl miss, gold sellers ruin the economy, they inflate prices injecting millions in gold coins and pretty much screw everybody that 'plays fair', example, I'm still making 4-6-8g from the trade packs I was since the beginning of the game, however, the prices had rised to the point of absurd.

The irony at the same time, is that removing those bots/cheaters/hackers, the Worker Pots, appraisal certs and other marketplace items have also rised, probally because they got ridden a lot of ppl doing credit card fraud, and yet the prices for all the other items are not dropping.

Dsmac
10-24-2014, 08:41 AM
The lack of response is pretty scary. Should I start writing down my amount of gold on a notepad before I sleep to see if I got gold taken away? It's not a player's fault if someone who bought gold bought your item. Or maybe the system doesn't even work this way and I should not be worried. A response would be nice so this thread wouldn't have to be 25 pages long.

Barb
10-24-2014, 08:42 AM
The problem is that people who never, ever, bought or sold gold are having gold taken away because they sold legitimate items on the auction house. If it is not safe to use the auction house, how are we supposed to do business in a game where scamming is not against the TOS?

Tenku
10-24-2014, 08:43 AM
All gold obtained from bots should be removed and you should be returned the item that you sold if the person who bought it used illegal gold. Certainly there will be legit players that gets screwed, but the pros of doing this far outweigh the cons.

What is to stop the gold buyer from putting up an item for double the market price? You can then tell your gold seller to buy the specific item that's listed for x amount of gold.

TattyTeddy
10-24-2014, 08:48 AM
All gold obtained from bots should be removed and you should be returned the item that you sold if the person who bought it used illegal gold. Certainly there will be legit players that gets screwed, but the pros of doing this far outweigh the cons.

What is to stop the gold buyer from putting up an item for double the market price? You can then tell your gold seller to buy the specific item that's listed for x amount of gold.


so let say i buy gold, i buy your item.
you spend "my bought gold" on 10 items. and list goes on alot of people lose stuff and your 10 items might have been potions that went up in smoke.

so you get your gold back the pots arent able to be restored cus you eat/drink them now at the end it just doesnt work.

some gold might have gone up in smoke by buyin stuff from npc etc its such a long run to track it and such a pain in the ♥♥♥

10 gold can be divined into 9999 silver into 999999? bronze i dunno its just to much

Icewater1337
10-24-2014, 11:12 AM
He wrote GIFTED gold, or BOUGHT gold. The things you are talking about here for over 25 pages, is gold which you traded.... They didn't say anything about that!

Hiskias
10-24-2014, 01:10 PM
Hackers and botters cry foul. 'Tis beautiful, beautiful I tell you. Step up your efforts, Trion, until all the fookwads have been eliminated from game! The great majority of players can only benefit from these actions!