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Thread: You do realize how long it actually takes to grind Hasla...right?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labi View Post
    I don't want you to take this in a negative way. But you really aren't a smart person and all of your post have such flawed logic anyone with any intelligence that reads it has an instant headache. I will point out your flaws this one time but please... for the love of baby jesus.. ask at least 3 grownups to read your post before posting.



    - Because fishing with your own fishing boat and 90k prof is one of the fastest ways of making gold. Only way I can think of that's faster would be using RL cash or selling raidboss loot.



    Nobody mentioned proficiency leveling time. It is about gold/time sink in getting high end crafting weapons specifically epherium grade weapons that run around 6-10k to buy from the AH and have no set value to craft because of RNG.



    Again. People compare fishing time because this is the fastest way of making gold to buy an epherium weapon.



    No point to this statement. But just to counter it hasla drops coinpurses which levels larceny.



    The only way you can get those weapons is to buy them on the AH or buy the materials to craft them. In order to buy them or buy the materials to craft it it takes time... I would say around 10-30x longer of efficient gold farming depending on your RNG luck. And of course we are talking about buying them or buying the materials to craft them.



    when you craft from conq to ilust you have a 1 in 4 chance of getting the right weapon to progress to magnificent. When you craft a magnificent weapon you have a 1 in 4 chance of getting the right bow to progress to epherium. And then at epherium you have a 1 in 7 chance of getting the right bow to make delphinad. And when you craft a delphinad bow you can get ♥♥♥♥ty stats. Average prices to craft an ilust weapon is about 200g. magnificent is around 300g and epherium is around 500g. That means you can spend 1000g easily just getting an ilustrious weapon to upgrade magnificent just to have it fail and be useless. 1000g Doing the fastest ingame way of making gold "fishing" is around 15hrs i think? So you could easily see how some people have spent 30hrs + farming for something and still haven't gotten what they want just to have it replaced by something that takes 10-20hrs to get. *also if you have a halfway decent guild who runs rifts you can get it in hours*.



    Because in 15hrs your guaranteed your weapon. No real risk. And then you have something thats better then 99% of current crafted weapons in the game that people have spent 100's of hours on.



    And how does that affect crafted weapons? Someone fishing 3 hours a day wouldn't have enough gold in a month to buy a epherium/gale bow.


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    Now. My side of the argument to help you understand. If hasla weapons weren't in the game yet. Ilustrious/Magnificent weapons would still be usefull. They would actually sell on the AH. Also. More people would do dungeons like GHA to try and get better weapons from them. Weapons that currently have almost no value because of the hasla t1. Why would the initial endgame dungeon GHA have weapons that are useless from 5-8hrs of solo grinding content.

    Now. Let me explain to you why hasla exist and why it was implemented. After about a year of the game being released in korea versions with pre 1.0 patch. Crafted weapons were pretty easy to get because Archeum was extremly easy to get. Thus the cost to produce weapons was very low. With so many people running around with Delphinad or better gear + reduction in archeum drops new players needed a weapon they could get when they hit 50 that would allow them to have some impact on people running delph gear.

    Why this doesn't work out for NA version-
    We didn't release with 1.0 version. We released with a modified 1.2 build which Korea used to remove archeum surplus from the market and bring value back to crafted gear.Even though archeum rates were increased slightly the cost/availability of them still makes the cost of crafted weapons very high and the amount of crafted weapons on the market very low. So. Why would something that was created to lessen the gear gap between new players and endgame geared players be released when nobody has endgame gear?
    First of all lol...don't try and sugar coat an insult, if you're gonna insult someone by calling them stupid, just call them stupid. THAT is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, "I don't want you to take this in negative way but you're stupid" lol sure man, def wasn't taken negatively.

    That said, you need to pay more attention to the focus of my posts. It sounds to me you are taking bits and pieces and taking them out of context missing my point. Granted, to your defense, it's understandable that someone could miss the point of a wall of text posted on an Internet forum (and God knows I'm not close to being the best writer on the planet) so I won't do what you did and basically call you a ♥♥♥♥ing ******.

    Your post was thought out and very long so I'm not going to do what you did and literally respond to every little point (which is completely fine that you did), otherwise this could turn into a novel war (which this post will probably be anyway) so...

    First off, I never said fishing wasn't an efficient way to make gold. In fact I don't know exactly what you can max profit off of it at max proficiency because I haven't gone deep into fishing. I mean ♥♥♥♥, there's a really good chance you have way more experience in this game than I have but what I do know is the hasla grind, money making (my methods that is), and cost.

    The comparisons to proficiency such as crafting and fishin was brought up because they were including the amount of time it takes to level up that particular proficiency along with the time it takes them to make gold off of it when they are at that max/high proficiency . My point: that is an unfair comparison.

    You don't have to tell me about the rng in crafting, im fully aware one could craft for the next year and never get even a mag piece. This is what I mean in you missing the point of my messages. Throw all that to the side. That doesn't matter. If you want an Epherium sword there WILL/HAS/or WILL BE one on the AH for several K depending on grade. Talking about the crafting part is irrelevant. I never said hasla was fair to crafters. Re-read the title of this thread. The point of this is to compare the time it takes to get a hasla vs an Epherium. Could it take forever to craft an Epherium yourself? Yes. But that's irrelevant to my thread. The fact of the matter is that there are Epherium weapons on the AH and in Faction chat being sold almost every day which means there is only currently ONE requirement in getting one: gold.

    I don't know how much fishing makes exactly, but if you think buying apex and selling raid loot is the absolute best way to make money then you are probably wrong. Like I said, I do runs that cost me less than 4k labor and net profit me with over 500 gold...this takes a total of 3 hours tops. That means in 18 hours I will make at least 3k gold (I'm rounding down right now too btw). I can buy an Epherium weapon with 3k gold. 18 hours is also the time it takes many people to grind the 650 tokens. Some people grind it faster, some people grind it slower. Even if hasla is faster it's not faster by much.

    I never said crafting an Epherium is just as fast as obtaining a hasla weapon. I said PURCHASING one requires very similar effort (effort being time) to obtaining a hasla.

    And yes I know the hasla weapons were implemented with that purpose. If i was the developer I'd probably do it this same way. I'm simply stating the fact that it's not as bad as all of you make it out to be in terms of the amount of time it takes to get it compared to an Epherium weapon ( buying not crafting). Yes I agree and know that weaponry gets the shaft, but that's not what my thread is talking about.

    Remember my point kids: hasla grind is being compared to the grind of BUYING an Epherium (which anyone and everyone has the ability to do as long as they have gold) not crafting

  2. #62
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    Also this whole assuming people will be able to sell gilda star plans forever is a bunch of ♥♥♥♥
    Expect those prices to fall off as all the pay players (the people who would buy them) stop since they have them already.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labi View Post
    You should look into this game called world of warcraft it might be more your thing
    This kind of attitude is pathetic doe , not everyone wants to slave away for some pixels it's 2015 almost dude get a grip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanonXO View Post
    I never said crafting an Epherium is just as fast as obtaining a hasla weapon. I said PURCHASING one requires very similar effort (effort being time) to obtaining a hasla.
    You are saying that they require a similar amount of time yet it has been stated over and over with math as evidence stating that you need thousands of gold and thus far more time in order to obtain a Hasla equivalent crafted weapon. If a weapon smith makes 0 gold off of anything but Hasla equivalent weapons then those weapons are artificially inflated to make up for the costs of ALL of his crafting (since they've made basically 0 gold from 0-50K skill)
    Quote Originally Posted by KanonXO View Post
    Remember my list kids: hasla grind is being compared to the grind of BUYING an Epherium (which anyone and everyone has the ability to do as long as they have gold) not crafting
    The 2 are directly related and you fail to understand this simple point. The price of the weapons are only going to increase since the weaponsmiths will be taking even more losses due to Hasla tier 2 and 3.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deioth View Post
    Took me tops 8 hours combined for my bow, including plenty of PVP, with at tops an hour with a couple guildies mixed into that, making most of it with PUGs. This equates to 960 labor. That's 960 proficiency for a chosen craft in 8 hours. To properly match Hasla T1, you need 30k crafting. Assuming you could keep yourself logged in 24/7, just labor alone, that's 10 and a half days, or 252 hours. You're already losing on the time = money aspect right there alone. Accounting for the fact that we're animals that need sleep and Trion kicks and even bans for AFK exploiting for labor, just presuming you're unemployed able to play every day even 12 hours a day and get the other 12 at half labor gain we're looking at just under 14 days or just under 336 hours. That's 120 labor per hour online and 5 per hour offline just FYI.

    The only reliable way to make money in game, unless you've a guild feeding you, is crafting, thus costing labor. There are some ways to play the market, there are some items you can craft for proficiency but sell the material at a small profit (even if you can somehow self feed mats at a proper rate, which also will cost labor), but fishing and commerce are arguably the most consistent. Given the labor you now need to spend to make the money, you're not building proficiency with it, making you spend more time before you can get the craft up. You also then start spending less labor and gaining less proficiency the higher tier crafting you hold, thus costing more gold to level it.

    With gear crafts, you also have a major RNG aspect to deal with. You need to first build every single tier below Illustrious. You then need to have Illustrious become the base stat in order to make a Magnificent (i.e. daggers are base Mountain, you need to make an Illust Mountain dagger to make Mag) and so on and so forth for higher tiers which expand to more potential stat combos. You cannot upgrade an alt stat (i.e. you make a Sky Mag Dagger you cannot make an Eph dagger from it). The RNG makes it impossible to accurately calc labor costs and gold costs here off hand.

    Even if we presume that you only spend labor on crafting a profit (namely, farmland skills + commerce for arguably the most reliable method and consistent method) you need to pick a run that you can make with a donkey until you can afford a cart. For East, probably the best would be Arcum Iris <> Falcorth Plains at about 4g50s per pack given varied handin percentage. At 2160 labor a day for 12 hours on and 12 hours off you're getting about 162g a day. Even ignoring the cart, given it only makes you do the runs faster, that's 162g every day, 162g that requires 24 hours to make. Illustrious will generally cost at least 200g. I need another 360 labor, or three ingame hours, to make the necessary 6 packs (have to round up) just to get the approximate lowest cost of Illustrious. There are other runs that likely are, in the long run, a better result, and that's a whole topic on its own, but I'm using it as an example given it's a run most people will be able to tolerate in the real time it takes especially if they're cartless. And these labor costs are considering you not needing to spend labor to self feed mats for the packs from farming and the money costs of farm goods to grow/raise.

    I have seen Epherium weapons go for around 1500g. And that's for the good one that gives proper stats (no bows with strength and int kind of crap). That's nine days and six hours rounding down at 162g per day. That's 222 hours. If I can take my 8 hours for 150 Courage as the average, and we need from what I hear 200 for T2 and 300 for T3? Totaling 650 tokens? That's rounding down 18 tokens per hour. That's just over 36 hours to hit T3 on average. Even if we take your highest time of 20 hours for T1 that's rounding down 7 tokens an hour. That's within 93 hours 650 tokens. If I spend those 12 hours a day doing nothing but Hasla, I've got T3 within eight days of gameplay at your own worst estimate.

    Presuming you could safely trade your packs in for gilda instead and sell blueprints at 1500g, and going for the most possible (that being Freedich) assuming you lost none of them that's 144 per day on packs alone. If the risk wasn't there, you could certainly do it for the Gilda. You'll have a hefty 1500g from a 250gs within about 3 days solo. That's within 36 hours of gameplay using my previous numbers. This is a perfect run every single pack every single day which sure as hell isn't happening going to Freedich. Here, yes, it'll work out, but that's if we ignore the fact we're going to Freedich. If we do it the safe way, I personally know of 12 gilda you can reliably gain from dailies per day. That's nearly 21 days to hit 250 stars.

    Mind you, I am talking solo in much of this because Hasla can be done solo. You can PUG in a heartbeat for the token you need. We've got pitch perfect Freedich runs at a consistent 12 hours gameplay per day netting you Delph within three days and such perfect runs will never happen. Running only commerce instead, you're at 222 hours using my modest exampled run instead of 93 at your worst estimate. That's a second hasla piece and 1/3 of another t3 hasla.

    Time = a pittance comparing grinding Hasla to earning the gold for Eph, let alone Delph. You're full of it and you know it. Weaponry and Carpentry are getting royally shafted (as if they aren't already, especially Weaponry, given the huge cost of archeum materials alone)
    Even though you said I'm full of it, much respect to you for your well written post. After skimming thru your post, all those number seem accurate. However, again, in my previous post on comparing the hasla grind to gold. Not crafting an Epherium....buying one. Why? Because anyone can buy one right now. Yes crafters get the shaft, but that's not what I'm talking about.

    And no, no, no. If you are interested in the runs I do pm me. I don't use a donkey, I don't fish. I DONT get fed. My guild doesn't even do guild traderuns. There are SO many ways to make gold. If you think you have it all figured out with that then you're just flat out wrong. There are runs that profit even more than the ones I'm doing but they require a lot of setting up (as does the run that I do). Requires investment just like everything else.

  6. #66
    Wait wait, you mean there are players that didnt grind out the tokens for weapons and upgrades the first week of launch?
    Annamosity

  7. #67
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    Honestly, it's a bit ridiculous. I've farmed my last weapon in 4 hours in Hasla.
    Do you know how many hours you need to acquire a legendary in GW2 ?

    4 hours is nothing, and people are talking about mad grinding and such...

    Also you don't need T2 or T3, T1 is fine. 20 dps is not going to change life and death in pvp. Mistakes do.

  8. #68
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by BobJohnson View Post
    Like what was stated, you're not very smart. You are saying that they require a similar amount of time yet it has been stated over and over with math as evidence stating that you need thousands of gold and thus far more time in order to obtain a Hasla equivalent crafted weapon. If a weapon smith makes 0 gold off of anything but Hasla equivalent weapons then those weapons are artificially inflated to make up for the costs of ALL of his crafting (since they've made basically 0 gold from 0-50K skill)

    The 2 are directly related and you fail to understand this simple point.
    /sigh

    What's the reality right now? Can you buy an Epherium weapon right now if you wanted to? Are they available to buy? Forget how they got there on the AH, how they got there is a different discussion. The fact is that they are there, and you can purchase them for the right amount of gold that you can get in the same amount of time you could farm hasla tokens. How do you fail to understand this?

    Yes I know the two are related because if hasla wasn't here it'd change the crafting market. Yes I know how much gold goes into weaponry but that again is irrelevant to my what in comparing.

    Stop trying to make it more complex. I'll repeat it again.

    What is the only thing required to buy an Epherium weapon right now? Gold. Not from a crafters pov, from a consumers'

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by arknor View Post
    no one will be in hasla when auroria open
    farm your tokens on the 5th goto auroria after
    Don't tell them that!
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by KanonXO View Post
    /sigh

    What's the reality right now? Can you buy an Epherium weapon right now if you wanted to? Are they available to buy? Forget how they got there on the AH, how they got there is a different discussion. The fact is that they are there, and you can purchase them for the right amount of gold that you can get in the same amount of time you could farm hasla tokens. How do you fail to understand this?

    Yes I know the two are related because if hasla wasn't here it'd change the crafting market. Yes I know how much gold goes into weaponry but that again is irrelevant to my what in comparing.

    Stop trying to make it more complex. I'll repeat it again.

    What is the only thing required to buy an Epherium weapon right now? Gold. Not from a crafters pov, from a consumers'
    You're literally making a thousand gold an hour (for hours (without the use of labor)) in tokens if you are comparing Hasla farming to buying a weapon off a weaponsmith/AH. Even if you could make a thousand gold an hour, you could do it as the Hasla farmer and come out thousands of gold ahead of the person who went and bought the weapon. So still, they are not roughly the same.

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