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Thread: Submarines! Are they worth it?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014

    Submarines! Are they worth it?

    Hey all, I recently built a submarine, and I get asked the same question over and over again:

    Are they worth it?

    So, here I am today to try to share w/ you the information I've uncovered about submarines. So let me start by mentioning a few things. On test, I was given all 3 kinds of mirage submarines (lapis/ruby/platinum) by the lovely Krolan and Amary way back when they were introducing them. On my server, I have built the Chrome submarine. This is how I am comming up w/ all my data. Also, I'd like to point out, this only applies to the current build (first part of 2.0) as things have changed a bit. Most notably, is that your swimfins and the UBD no longer help your cyanfin/donkey in the water.

    So let's dive in! (pun intended!) --Also, if u hate to read, there's a summary at the bottom

    First, I'd like to start off by saying, NONE of the submarines are created equal, they are all different. Something I was surprised to discover. I do not have the black sub, so I cannot speak to it, but here are the differences in movement speed between the other 4 types. For comparison's sake, I've added Cyanfin, which most people have. Fuciafin, I do not have so I don't have any hard data for it. Here are the base movement speeds:

    Caynfin: 5.5 m/s above and underwater

    Lapis: 5.5 m/s above and underwater

    Platinum: 5.5 m/s above, 4.4 m/s underwater

    Ruby: 5.5 m/s above, 6.9 m/s underwater

    Chrome: 6.5 ms/ above, 6.0 m/s underwater

    As everyone knows (or maybe you don't), subs were changed from a vehicle to a mount in their current implementation. I'm not sure why they didn't get normalized like all the other mounts then, but this is where things currently stand. Also I didn't see any info on the patterns that TELL you what the differences are.

    Submarines can be equipped w/ a variety of parts, several of which affect movement speed, there are 3 kinds: the burst engine, the tailfin, and the giant tailfin. The burst engine, works much like the dash on Cyanfin, it gives u a boost to movement speed every 30s. the tailfin and giant tailfin don't DO anyting but make u go faster just by having them equipped. As a side note, the giant tailfin says you get a further boost if you are traveling in a group of 3 or more subs. I have been unable to test that and all data here is 1 sub traveling by itself. All 3 of these can be crafted in game, and the normal tailfin can also be bought on the marketplace for 800 credits. None of them are cheap to make.

    Because submarines are considered mounts and not vehicles there's a few things I'd like to mention. First off, songcraft will affect their movement speed, which I havn't taken into account in this post, as it will affect all things to the same magnitude. Also, mounts won't be in combat as long as a vessel. You can summon your boat and your submarine simultaneously. And lastly, you can swap out their parts on the fly. Why do I mention this? because it means you can pop the burst engine, and throw on a tailfin for an even greater increase to movement speed. It's not a drastic difference in movement speed, but I wanted to point out that it's a thing.

    So, after testing over a 5 min period, based on the data from the vehicle these things are true: The burst engine is better than just a normal tailfin. It comes out just a few meters ahead, so the normal tailfin is basically worthless unless you don't have a burst engine, or need it to make the giant tailfin. And 2ndly, using burst + the tailfin (swapping them out to max the speed) is a little bit slower than having the giant tailfin on for the whole 5 mins.

    So here's what things look like over 5 mins:

    Cyanfin: 6.6 M/s above and underwater (this is with the dash every 25s)

    Lapis: (same above and underwater remember)
    Burst: 5.87 m/s
    Giant Tailfin: 6.1 m/s
    Burst + Giant tailfin: 6.4 m/s

    Burst: 5.87 m/s above, 4.7 m/s underwater
    Giant Tailfin: 6.1 m/s above, 4.8 m/s underwater
    Burst + Giant Tailfin: 6.4 m/s above, 5.05 m/s underwater

    Burst: 5.87 m/s above, 7.36 underwater
    Giant Tailfin: 6.1 m/s above, 7.6 m/s underwater
    Burst + Giant Tailfin: 6.4 m/s above, 7.96 m/s underwater

    Burst: 6.94 m/s above, 6.42 m/s underwater
    Giant Tailfin: 7.2 m/s above, 6.6 m/s underwater
    Burst + Giant Tailfin: 7.55 m/s above, 6.93 m/s underwater

    So let's look at what this tells us: Lapis and Platinum are junk as they will never be faster than a cyanfin. The ruby, while slower than cyanfin on the surface, will surpass it underwater by a fair bit. And the chrome outpaces cyanfin on the surface and eventually underwater as well, w/ the right gear. So if you're reading this, and thinking about making a sub, do NOT make the lapis or platinum unless u just have to have that color!

    so now that we've talked about movement speed, let's talk a bit more about the different things u can put on them. First, there is the radar, which is very limited range, just like cyanfin. There's also an air cannon that is like a point blank knockback in front of the submarine. An oxygen tank, and of course the torpedo. The radar and the air cannon both go on the head, the oxygen and torpedo both go on the waist. So it's 1 or the other w/ these things, unless u swap them out.

    First, let's talk oxygen tank. Clicking this gives u a 10m buff that lets you breath underwater, w/ a few seconds cooldown. So esentially you can breath underwater forever w/ this unless u forget to click the button. I want to note however, it does NOT work for your passenger (subs seat 2 in case you didn't know that). So while u can breath just fine, they'll choke and die underwater.

    The air cannon is pretty worthless at the moment and I can't reccomend it to anyone. I'm told it will get future functionality in 2.5 but who knows when that will be for us, or how subs will change by then.

    The sonar, while crappy, will be your head piece of choice. It's a useful function, and gives the chrome steamfish an extra ability, which I will cover in a moment.

    The torpedo! sounds fun right! well, you'd be wrong. First off, the torpedos only have a range of 35m, so u pretty much have to be right on the ship to use it. and u have to have the ship targeted, it will not work on like, a cannon. I didn't test to see if u could use it on people because....it does about 200-300 dmg. about 250 on avg, but it's very sporatic, I assume because it can crit. I tried shooting the same ship w/ all 3 subs (not the chrome) above and below water. It also consumes 3 steel ammo per shot. Given that most cannons have a range of like 80+ meters.....well let's just say I dont' reccomend torpedos.

    Now let's talk about the chrome steamfish for a minute. it has some difference in skills that also aren't covered by the design. Firstly, u cannot equip torpedos on it. 2ndly, using a burst engine on a chrome steamfish, while it nets the same increase in speed, covers both you and the steamfish in a barrier that makes u immune to all damage for the duration of the burst. Lastly, if equipped w/ a sonar, u unlock the ability it gets instead of being able to use torpedos, which is stealth. It's 30s of stealth on a 1m cooldown, and using it does not affect your speed.

    Other random things about subs in general: For abyssal attack, being on a sub on the surface will prevent YOU from taking damage....but the sub will take it instead, so it will slowly die. Also, all forms of transportation for packs IN the water (cyanfin/donkey/submarine) are terrible w/ our current build. u will slow to a crawl of 3 m/s or less, depending on your ride. I cannot reccomend them for pack transport at all. The tailfin frame, which is used to contrust the normal tailfin (buy it from the market tho) as well as make the giant tailfin frame, is a rare drop from 5 man dahuta only. it is super annoying to obtain. If any devs are reading this, please fix it :P

    So in summary:

    Lapis - don't make it!
    Platinum - don't make it!
    Ruby - slower on the surface than cyanfin, but faster than anything underwater
    Chrome - can surpass cyanfin both above and below water. Unique skills!

    I hope this has helped any of you potential sub owners, and maybe the devs to look and reevaluate some of the subs, happy gaming!

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    That is huge text.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    submarines are an example of abandoned content. devs have no intention of giving solo players the ability to contest anything which is why subs were nerfed and will forever remain nerfed.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    From the look of this post it looks like all submarines are subpar.

    Thanks for the write up, confirms my gut feeling that they were all fairly useless.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Also, all forms of transportation for packs IN the water (cyanfin/donkey/submarine) are terrible w/ our current build. u will slow to a crawl of 3 m/s or less, depending on your ride. I cannot reccomend them for pack transport at all.
    Thx for the update, lost all interest with this sentence. ZERO interest. Shame because players would actually buy things for them, spend time and cash upgrading them and enjoy them if they were the slightest bit useful. Oh well, lost revenue for the devs and pubishers both until they learn to listen to their playerbase. Nobody wants a slow, fat griffin... even if it's FREE... same for USELESS submarines which could have POTENTIALLY been a bigger thing than clippers, which everyone has and upgrades.
    "SORRY everyone. As I said in a different post, I accidentally deleted this thread. Thankfully, our team was able to get it back."
    -Muzzy, Connectivity Issues

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Submarine was the worst investment I have ever made in my history of playing MMO.. It is very expensive to make and gives you no advantage at all.. It sucks and It seems Trion has no plans on doing anything about it... I wont make this mistake again.

  7. #7
    what about onxy?

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    if u wanna give me $250 to get the pack I'll test the onxy too, but otherwise, can't help as I dont' own one

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Awakenlighting View Post
    what about onxy?
    Onyx is a tad worse than Chrome and .5 faster than gilda subs.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Thenijiway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    North Windscour Savannah
    i chose ruby submarine cause its my fav colour
    and turns out to be the best
    or maybe chrome is a bit better

    my sub has the air cannon and the oxygen tank
    and i use bother the tailfin a burst engine

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