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  Click here to go to the first Archeage Team post in this thread.   Thread: [REQUEST] Adjust Submarine Stats & Functionality

  1. #31
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    I think you also need to remove speed decrease with tradepacks. This is a motorized machine, it must not slow down with one trade pack.
    Longboard doesn't slow down with trade packs, so submarines should preserve their speeds too. Carrying one tradepack with a good speed won't impact the economy.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathshades View Post
    they should be on = ground as a clipper with a cannon far as upgrades go make them same speed and damg they really same thing just 1 on top 1 under
    I agree speed/upgrade wise they should be on the same level as a clipper. O2 tanks should be upgradable as well but Damage should remain weak and ammo expensive so that way we don't have fleets of subs sinking galleons.

    They should also have the ability to have a shroud light to hide them from radar.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tr34 View Post
    I think you also need to remove speed decrease with tradepacks. This is a motorized machine, it must not slow down with one trade pack.
    Longboard doesn't slow down with trade packs, so submarines should preserve their speeds too. Carrying one tradepack with a good speed won't impact the economy.
    Longboards were actually never intended to be able to hold trade packs

  4. #34
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    Submarines should not take damage from the Abyssal debuff. Its a crafted item like a clipper. Not a Mount.
    <ArcheAgeTools> - Get it on Google Play!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkullMonkey View Post
    I agree speed/upgrade wise they should be on the same level as a clipper. O2 tanks should be upgradable as well but Damage should remain weak and ammo expensive so that way we don't have fleets of subs sinking galleons.

    They should also have the ability to have a shroud light to hide them from radar.
    Do they actually show up on Radar? I dont believe that they do.

    And as for a Fleet of Subs. A Fleet should be able to take down a galleon. The amount of time and effort put into making a fleet of them would be Astronomical.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldasa View Post
    Submarines should not take damage from the Abyssal debuff. Its a crafted item like a clipper. Not a Mount.
    But it is a mount

  7. #37
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    Hence part of many of the problems with a sub, it's a mount and not a machine.

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    @ Celestrata Bloodsong: A Description of Steamfish and their functionality

    Intro
    <center>The current state of steamfish AKA Submarines are as already known near useless. With this matter already under address for the new and upcoming update to the ocean with submarines being a key part in this I wish to sit down and write to you a description of the current state of submarines with information on all their uses. Then I will list some more details for you about the current obtainable submarines and to what may could be done. These changes given are only opinions from someone who is not only a fanatic of subs, a pirate, a seaman at heart on this game. I was not around to see with my own eyes the devastation the old submarines could do before their crippling nerf, but have seen a few videos. Which in all understanding was a good idea to do since not only was they vastly overpowered but to in a way push members away from the content so that time would whittle out who was dedicated to the use of these machines. The ideas I bring forth will also repeat some listed as well by you and many of the community due to an overwhelming need of them to be changed in those areas so forgive me for being repetitive with this post. Now let us get to the descriptions of all obtainable Steamfish (THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE GILDED STEAMFISH)</center>

    ================================================== ==========================================
    Copper Steamfish (lifeguard quest)
    • Unable to be equipped with any gear
    • Moves 5.5 Above water
    • Moves 5.0 below
    • Used as a starter steamfish. This steamfish is the lowest of the low only there to intrigue or hook players into the potential idea, fun, an adventure that they may experience with steamfish.
    [[Things that can be changed to enhance this With reasoning behind said changes]]
    • This Steamfish was designed to be given freely to those people who finished the lifeguard quest in order to get them interested in the steamfish. This item I believe is fine where it is besides the fact it needs to have its speed increased. NOW before someone loads an arrow to shoot me listen. The fact it needs a speed boost does NOT MEAN it needs to be on par with the there after mentioned subs. This is a steamfish which was purely made to get people interested in it. This being said the below changes would help achieve that fact but not offend any submarine owners now who have sunk 1,856g+ into creating an actual steamfish.
    • STILL unable to be upgraded with any pet attachments. This is because it was given to them freely.
    • Moves 8.0 Above water
    • Moves 8.5 Below water
    • Changed to be a Machine (NOT A PET)
    • The changes above simply adjust its speed lower then the normal steamfish but keep the feel of the machine.
    ================================================== ==========================================
    The Gilda Star Steamfish (Ruby, Lapis, Platinum)
    • Can be equipped with all steamfish pet gear. Allows access to every basic steamfish ability when the corresponding parts are equip.
    • Moves 5.5 Above water
    • Moves 5.0 Below water (The only exception is the Ruby Steamfish who is currently bugged from last I heard to move 6.9)
    • These steamfish are the next on our tier to the top. These are bought with 250 Gilda Stars and bring the full package to those who bought them. These are the steamfish most players will or would commonly have. Many have made the comparison that These are to be on the same level as a clipper. I am at a cross with this idea as Clippers are vessels who are built purely on speed and movement. They have no real offensive abilities but are a danger if they have a harpoon on them making them a horror to escaping Fishing Boats & Merchant Ships. This idea is in essence the same idea that should be the submarines they are built for subterfuge and ambushing. But do I believe They should out run a clipper I am at a cross for this, Do I think they should outrun a merchant ship and a Fishing Boat Yes. I'm sure you see the problem with my statement before hand. Where as a clipper has the ability to harpoon and STOP retreating ships if played right The submarines are built to catch up ambush and attack These vulnerable targets. I believe that a single steamfish should not be able to attack and defeat a Galleon and DANG SURE should not be able to even ATTEMPT to contest a Enoan Galleon. These Steamfish are not just Water mounts who are meant to be slow moving trade horse who go across the ocean blue stealthy to make secret runs. That is the job of a merchant ship who Should have put Upgraded Shoudlights on their ship... These steamfish are meant to be war machines Here is an excerpt from the Dread Prophecies Spotlight on them.

    •
    Time marches onward in Erenor, and the machinists of war welcome an incredible innovation to the winding waterways of the world: submarines. Intrepid adventurers will dive to untold depths and experience Dahuta’s deep seas with fresh eyes in these spectacular new submersibles.
    They are described as machines along with the fact they are built by war machinist to explore the depths of Dahuta's domain. This said the current changes would be very helpful AND YES I KNOW it also says if you read down on that spotlight they are not machines they are mounts Which is a mistake. The fact these are not machines prevent their use as a FLEET to those who spend time, money, effort, coordination, and planning to use in abyssal event to help contest abyssal. The fact as well many people might have not noticed is if your in the water even on a vehicle it will still damage you. If this could be changed with the fact they should be machines it be perfect. But even if it was changed the main reason these machines need to be machines is they are effected by buffs by songcraft users. This pushes dedicated submarine commanders or those aspiring to make a fleet to pick up the skill set not only to increase the speed, defense, and attack of these "mounts" right now for proper use. This plus the tailfin pipe on a chrome steamfish will cap you off at 12 as your movement for a brief moment. This would be very borderline powerful if the new buffed steamfish was allowed to be buffed in that way aswell tipping the tides to those who dipped into songcraft just for the bonuses. If people was allowed to regrade the accessories to increase base stats,damage, and skill effects this would put rng in the mix plus put power to those who dedicate themselves to upgrading the pieces as high a regrade they can get. I believe these items could be made into ship components if not already listed as such so they can be regraded up as such to enhance the effects of the steamfish abilities. Here are the changes to This tier of Steamfish below.

    • Change to a machine not a mount (like the Cars or Longboards)
    • Moves 11.5 Above water
    • Moves 12.0 Below water
    • Torpedo damage increased from 300 each hit they should be hitting around 1,214 damage as a base for siege damage. BUT retain the cost they have of 3 steel ammo per shot.
    • The Air Cannon should be Siege damage and do around 875 siege damage plus be able to be used with movement. The reason behind this is NOT all submarines have the ability to use torpedoes but they do not need to replace them. You could argue it needs to be higher since they need to be aimed and you have to be close but it would be to powerful to make the damage any higher as a base without proper regrading. Even then the torpedoes are made specifically to damage ships this item was made to yes knock back incoming intruders from getting to you but that is one of the fattest snow balls chance in the sun to do effectively with the amount of gap closers stuns and stops they have.
    • You should not be able to be knocked off your steamfish by CC. This happens alot and just stops a steamfish in their tracks causing them to be rendered useless. This happens as well randomly while swimming at times.
    • Sonar range has to be increased there is no work around that I can see. They should be stronger. I would say something behind that of a galleons radar but still have the chance of regrading to make it stronger or make it upgradeable.
    ================================================== ==========================================
    Chrome Steamfish
    • Can be equipped with all the pet accessories BUT torpedos are Unavailable for Use.
    • Moves 6.5 Above water
    • Moves 6.0 Below Water
    • Has Stealth Skill 30second Use(1m cd)
    • Drops as a world drop from Sunken Treasures (Takes nearly months of work to get if your not a Botter/Hacker (OR) You can buy it for generally 1k gold)
    • This is the next tier of Submarine on our list of Available tiers. This Submarine is Built purely for stealth. The problem with this one is YES its faster then the above average ones by a whole 1.0ms this has an ability to be stealth for 30seconds and 30seconds of no stealth. This one here is made for not only getting past mobs that surround sunken treasures in an out with ease but also to get under ships to spy on their movements. While using stealth NO ATTACKS or skills can be USED while you do it means to get full use out of it you cannot songcraft preform, scan for ships, use breating buff, or obviously attack so you are moving at the base of 6.0 for its duration which is nice I like that just as it is. Would be better yes if move speed was increased but we will get to that on the next bit. You cannot use torpedo as mentioned which is annoying. As for previous ones you can use all the skills aslong as you have the parts. If Air cannon was changed to do siege damage despite this being less equipped It would not be near as much a problem due to the fact you would have something in your arsenal to attack a ship instead of just being the scout vessel. I understand each tier should have something unique to them that way its something for each person to work towards. If they need more a stealth / scout unit for the head of the pack or want to ambush This would be the one despite its no existent form of damage on any type of ship. Below is the recommended changes to this tier of ship.
    • Moves 12.0 Above water
    • Moves 12.5 Below water
    • Allow use of torpedoes on this steamfish or change how Air Cannon works to be able to do siege damage as mentioned before on the Gilda star subs
    • Change the Sonar range to be Above average then the Gilda Star subs allows for better detection for this scout class of steamfish.
    • CHANGE TO MACHINE NOT MOUNT
    ================================================== ==========================================
    Onyx Steamfish
    • Moves 6.0 Above Water
    • Moves 5.5 Below water
    • Has an increased radar range 250 where as the chrome has 100
    • Has an increased burst engine speed 50% where as chrome has 30%
    • Has ability to use torpedoes
    • It is clear our next tier of Steamfish is MEANT to be the Attack sub. This is full optimized for hard attack and quick burst speed. The Oynx steamfish has a lower base speed then the submarine and its underwater speed is on par with the above water speed of the gilda subs. This vessel is not meant for speed but momentary burst of speed to ensure it keeps up with its enemy so they may attack. This is our final tier of submarine all it makes me think of its lighting war tactic. Yes I know its passive speed is slower then chrome but its base stats on abilities are vastly large that is why this is the final tier of submarines available. Not much needs to change on this as it has all it needs to be except the basic upgrades given to all submarines which are now listed below.

    • Moves 11.5 Above water
    • Moves 12.5 Below water
    • Sonar Range increased To be larger then the Chrome / Gilda subs sonar
    • Keeps its increased burst engine speed at its level right now ITS PERFECTLY FINE!
    • Increase the torpedo damage like the last ones on the SAME level as the ones for gilda subs. This can be debated amongst the developers if they wish to solidify this as THE attack sub by making its torpedoes stronger if desired would not be game breaking if so.
    • CHANGE TO MACHINE NOT MOUNT
    ================================================== ==========================================
    ::TLDR::
    • All subs speed are increased based on what Tier they are ALL SUBS HAVING INCREASED speed underwater The reason for this is clear. Submarines are meant to be underwater machines.
    • All Submarines Air Cannons now do Siege damage & increased to 875 . That way all steamfish have some ability to attack ships be it weak or Strong.
    • Should the above not be allowed then give all Steamfish the ability to use torpedoes with the torpedo accessory.
    • Torpedo damage increased 1,214 siege damage. (Onyx Steamfish COULD have theirs increased to show its built for damage)
    • All steamfish are made into Machines NOT Mounts. This way they are not effected by abyssal whisper and they require shatigon sand to fix. This also keeps them from going out of render range like mounts and people can to stealthfully sneak under their view to follow ships out of their sight. This can be controversial to those who Love steamfish but Its needed. Sat in the middle of Ezi's nuia harbor all day unseen as i was out of their range gathering info on ships as needed. without even using stealth.
    • Steamfish need oxygen tank fixed to give the buff to passengers.

    I thank you for your time and I thank you to those who read this whole mess..I know my typing is horrid..But I thought I would give a detailed post about my thoughts as so far.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
    @ Celestrata Bloodsong: A Description of Steamfish and their functionality

    Intro
    <center>The current state of steamfish AKA Submarines are as already known near useless. With this matter already under address for the new and upcoming update to the ocean with submarines being a key part in this I wish to sit down and write to you a description of the current state of submarines with information on all their uses. Then I will list some more details for you about the current obtainable submarines and to what may could be done. These changes given are only opinions from someone who is not only a fanatic of subs, a pirate, a seaman at heart on this game. I was not around to see with my own eyes the devastation the old submarines could do before their crippling nerf, but have seen a few videos. Which in all understanding was a good idea to do since not only was they vastly overpowered but to in a way push members away from the content so that time would whittle out who was dedicated to the use of these machines. The ideas I bring forth will also repeat some listed as well by you and many of the community due to an overwhelming need of them to be changed in those areas so forgive me for being repetitive with this post. Now let us get to the descriptions of all obtainable Steamfish (THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE GILDED STEAMFISH)</center>

    ================================================== ==========================================
    Copper Steamfish (lifeguard quest)
    • Unable to be equipped with any gear
    • Moves 5.5 Above water
    • Moves 5.0 below
    • Used as a starter steamfish. This steamfish is the lowest of the low only there to intrigue or hook players into the potential idea, fun, an adventure that they may experience with steamfish.
    [[Things that can be changed to enhance this With reasoning behind said changes]]
    • This Steamfish was designed to be given freely to those people who finished the lifeguard quest in order to get them interested in the steamfish. This item I believe is fine where it is besides the fact it needs to have its speed increased. NOW before someone loads an arrow to shoot me listen. The fact it needs a speed boost does NOT MEAN it needs to be on par with the there after mentioned subs. This is a steamfish which was purely made to get people interested in it. This being said the below changes would help achieve that fact but not offend any submarine owners now who have sunk 1,856g+ into creating an actual steamfish.
    • STILL unable to be upgraded with any pet attachments. This is because it was given to them freely.
    • Moves 8.0 Above water
    • Moves 8.5 Below water
    • Changed to be a Machine (NOT A PET)
    • The changes above simply adjust its speed lower then the normal steamfish but keep the feel of the machine.
    ================================================== ==========================================
    The Gilda Star Steamfish (Ruby, Lapis, Platinum)
    • Can be equipped with all steamfish pet gear. Allows access to every basic steamfish ability when the corresponding parts are equip.
    • Moves 5.5 Above water
    • Moves 5.0 Below water (The only exception is the Ruby Steamfish who is currently bugged from last I heard to move 6.9)
    • These steamfish are the next on our tier to the top. These are bought with 250 Gilda Stars and bring the full package to those who bought them. These are the steamfish most players will or would commonly have. Many have made the comparison that These are to be on the same level as a clipper. I am at a cross with this idea as Clippers are vessels who are built purely on speed and movement. They have no real offensive abilities but are a danger if they have a harpoon on them making them a horror to escaping Fishing Boats & Merchant Ships. This idea is in essence the same idea that should be the submarines they are built for subterfuge and ambushing. But do I believe They should out run a clipper I am at a cross for this, Do I think they should outrun a merchant ship and a Fishing Boat Yes. I'm sure you see the problem with my statement before hand. Where as a clipper has the ability to harpoon and STOP retreating ships if played right The submarines are built to catch up ambush and attack These vulnerable targets. I believe that a single steamfish should not be able to attack and defeat a Galleon and DANG SURE should not be able to even ATTEMPT to contest a Enoan Galleon. These Steamfish are not just Water mounts who are meant to be slow moving trade horse who go across the ocean blue stealthy to make secret runs. That is the job of a merchant ship who Should have put Upgraded Shoudlights on their ship... These steamfish are meant to be war machines Here is an excerpt from the Dread Prophecies Spotlight on them.



    They are described as machines along with the fact they are built by war machinist to explore the depths of Dahuta's domain. This said the current changes would be very helpful AND YES I KNOW it also says if you read down on that spotlight they are not machines they are mounts Which is a mistake. The fact these are not machines prevent their use as a FLEET to those who spend time, money, effort, coordination, and planning to use in abyssal event to help contest abyssal. The fact as well many people might have not noticed is if your in the water even on a vehicle it will still damage you. If this could be changed with the fact they should be machines it be perfect. But even if it was changed the main reason these machines need to be machines is they are effected by buffs by songcraft users. This pushes dedicated submarine commanders or those aspiring to make a fleet to pick up the skill set not only to increase the speed, defense, and attack of these "mounts" right now for proper use. This plus the tailfin pipe on a chrome steamfish will cap you off at 12 as your movement for a brief moment. This would be very borderline powerful if the new buffed steamfish was allowed to be buffed in that way aswell tipping the tides to those who dipped into songcraft just for the bonuses. If people was allowed to regrade the accessories to increase base stats,damage, and skill effects this would put rng in the mix plus put power to those who dedicate themselves to upgrading the pieces as high a regrade they can get. I believe these items could be made into ship components if not already listed as such so they can be regraded up as such to enhance the effects of the steamfish abilities. Here are the changes to This tier of Steamfish below.

    • Change to a machine not a mount (like the Cars or Longboards)
    • Moves 11.5 Above water
    • Moves 12.0 Below water
    • Torpedo damage increased from 300 each hit they should be hitting around 1,214 damage as a base for siege damage. BUT retain the cost they have of 3 steel ammo per shot.
    • The Air Cannon should be Siege damage and do around 875 siege damage plus be able to be used with movement. The reason behind this is NOT all submarines have the ability to use torpedoes but they do not need to replace them. You could argue it needs to be higher since they need to be aimed and you have to be close but it would be to powerful to make the damage any higher as a base without proper regrading. Even then the torpedoes are made specifically to damage ships this item was made to yes knock back incoming intruders from getting to you but that is one of the fattest snow balls chance in the sun to do effectively with the amount of gap closers stuns and stops they have.
    • You should not be able to be knocked off your steamfish by CC. This happens alot and just stops a steamfish in their tracks causing them to be rendered useless. This happens as well randomly while swimming at times.
    • Sonar range has to be increased there is no work around that I can see. They should be stronger. I would say something behind that of a galleons radar but still have the chance of regrading to make it stronger or make it upgradeable.
    ================================================== ==========================================
    Chrome Steamfish
    • Can be equipped with all the pet accessories BUT torpedos are Unavailable for Use.
    • Moves 6.5 Above water
    • Moves 6.0 Below Water
    • Has Stealth Skill 30second Use(1m cd)
    • Drops as a world drop from Sunken Treasures (Takes nearly months of work to get if your not a Botter/Hacker (OR) You can buy it for generally 1k gold)
    • This is the next tier of Submarine on our list of Available tiers. This Submarine is Built purely for stealth. The problem with this one is YES its faster then the above average ones by a whole 1.0ms this has an ability to be stealth for 30seconds and 30seconds of no stealth. This one here is made for not only getting past mobs that surround sunken treasures in an out with ease but also to get under ships to spy on their movements. While using stealth NO ATTACKS or skills can be USED while you do it means to get full use out of it you cannot songcraft preform, scan for ships, use breating buff, or obviously attack so you are moving at the base of 6.0 for its duration which is nice I like that just as it is. Would be better yes if move speed was increased but we will get to that on the next bit. You cannot use torpedo as mentioned which is annoying. As for previous ones you can use all the skills aslong as you have the parts. If Air cannon was changed to do siege damage despite this being less equipped It would not be near as much a problem due to the fact you would have something in your arsenal to attack a ship instead of just being the scout vessel. I understand each tier should have something unique to them that way its something for each person to work towards. If they need more a stealth / scout unit for the head of the pack or want to ambush This would be the one despite its no existent form of damage on any type of ship. Below is the recommended changes to this tier of ship.
    • Moves 12.0 Above water
    • Moves 12.5 Below water
    • Allow use of torpedoes on this steamfish or change how Air Cannon works to be able to do siege damage as mentioned before on the Gilda star subs
    • Change the Sonar range to be Above average then the Gilda Star subs allows for better detection for this scout class of steamfish.
    • CHANGE TO MACHINE NOT MOUNT
    ================================================== ==========================================
    Onyx Steamfish
    • Moves 6.0 Above Water
    • Moves 5.5 Below water
    • Has an increased radar range 250 where as the chrome has 100
    • Has an increased burst engine speed 50% where as chrome has 30%
    • Has ability to use torpedoes
    • It is clear our next tier of Steamfish is MEANT to be the Attack sub. This is full optimized for hard attack and quick burst speed. The Oynx steamfish has a lower base speed then the submarine and its underwater speed is on par with the above water speed of the gilda subs. This vessel is not meant for speed but momentary burst of speed to ensure it keeps up with its enemy so they may attack. This is our final tier of submarine all it makes me think of its lighting war tactic. Yes I know its passive speed is slower then chrome but its base stats on abilities are vastly large that is why this is the final tier of submarines available. Not much needs to change on this as it has all it needs to be except the basic upgrades given to all submarines which are now listed below.

    • Moves 11.5 Above water
    • Moves 12.5 Below water
    • Sonar Range increased To be larger then the Chrome / Gilda subs sonar
    • Keeps its increased burst engine speed at its level right now ITS PERFECTLY FINE!
    • Increase the torpedo damage like the last ones on the SAME level as the ones for gilda subs. This can be debated amongst the developers if they wish to solidify this as THE attack sub by making its torpedoes stronger if desired would not be game breaking if so.
    • CHANGE TO MACHINE NOT MOUNT
    ================================================== ==========================================
    ::TLDR::
    • All subs speed are increased based on what Tier they are ALL SUBS HAVING INCREASED speed underwater The reason for this is clear. Submarines are meant to be underwater machines.
    • All Submarines Air Cannons now do Siege damage & increased to 875 . That way all steamfish have some ability to attack ships be it weak or Strong.
    • Should the above not be allowed then give all Steamfish the ability to use torpedoes with the torpedo accessory.
    • Torpedo damage increased 1,214 siege damage. (Onyx Steamfish COULD have theirs increased to show its built for damage)
    • All steamfish are made into Machines NOT Mounts. This way they are not effected by abyssal whisper and they require shatigon sand to fix. This also keeps them from going out of render range like mounts and people can to stealthfully sneak under their view to follow ships out of their sight. This can be controversial to those who Love steamfish but Its needed. Sat in the middle of Ezi's nuia harbor all day unseen as i was out of their range gathering info on ships as needed. without even using stealth.
    • Steamfish need oxygen tank fixed to give the buff to passengers.

    I thank you for your time and I thank you to those who read this whole mess..I know my typing is horrid..But I thought I would give a detailed post about my thoughts as so far.
    While I do not agree with all of the points in this post, I'd just like to thank this person for taking the time to write up such a detailed list and for their improvement suggestions. This is the kind of thing we need more of in Archeage if we want to see things continue to improve.

    Thanks Yorick!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archaelin View Post
    While I do not agree with all of the points in this post, I'd just like to thank this person for taking the time to write up such a detailed list and for their improvement suggestions. This is the kind of thing we need more of in Archeage if we want to see things continue to improve.

    Thanks Yorick!
    Thank you Archaelin, I am actually willing to have a full discussion on What would be better to have and Those points you do not agree with. As I'm just trying to throw out ideas from my viewpoint and gameplay point. It would be great to have a point of view from someone who plays differently.

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