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Thread: Here's why server merges help casual players more than they think and stabilizes the economy.

  1. #131
    Senior Member CalliCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudelord View Post
    Absolute nonsense.

    You get your house packed up as a ready to place package so if you can find land you lose almost NO functionality. What you lose is the aesthetics of your land location and MAYBE a bit of convenience.

    Aesthetic vs Functionality.

    So yea, if you want to trade aesthetics only? Sure us PvP'ers would be glad to have our transmogs and image items on our gear reset in exchange for merge. On behalf of the PvP'ers, square deal, we accept.

    See the ♥♥♥♥ty comparisons you can make when you're comparing dissimilar things? Gear vs Land is not comparable due to their fundamental differences. It's like comparing apples and oranges under the premise that they're both fruit. One similarity does not indicate equivalence.

    I mean really if you want to go into it I'd wager that a substantial portion of carebear opposition to mergers etc is again, due to them, trying to justify their playing of the game as NOT intended and in a selfish manner by owning far larger numbers of properties than intended through alt accounts.

    If you use your brain, it's pretty obvious that the available amount of land on a server is designed for a specific target population and with each player holding a certain target amount of land to give land SOME scarcity so that it has value but not so crippling that no one can afford anything.

    You are all just trying to perform mental gymnastics to avoid confronting the following fact:

    The game has a target server population to play as intended by design.
    Yes your argument is absolute nonsense. You have decided that people who play for the farming and trading aspect of the game are not a valid playstyle and you dimish the value of land to that type of player which is to them as valuable as your gear is to you.

    Do you really think the design is where the value in the land is? No the value is the location of the land which in the case of merge you are not by any means guaranteed to get back. It is not about aesthetics it is about function. Land in Gweonid and Halcyona is far more valuable than land in White Arden. It has great value to the type of player that plays for that aspect of the game and you are happy to take it away from those players and tell them that its ok because they get their designs and if they are lucky they might get a spot to place them on.

    When you are willing to pony up something that matters to your playstyle ( and no we are not talking about cosmetics ) something with real value to the way you play the game then maybe people will take you seriously. This is not a PVP game it has many aspects and one of them, like it or not, is the farming and trading aspect which is the reason some people play the game. The pvpers just can't seem to see past their own selfishness and think that the people who do play for those reasons should be perfectly happy to give up what matters to them so you can have more people to play with.

    That said, I have no problem with the idea of removing castles and world bosses and whatever content from some servers. Go one step further and just designate some PVE servers and be done with it.
    Call me Cat.

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  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver blue View Post
    What can be lost (but may not be...) regarding housing is:
    -number/type of plots
    -plots being consolidated
    -in a desired location
    -neighborhood, being near friends/guildmates, etc.]
    All covered already in the post under the word "convenience" / "functionality' and the phrase "if you can find land" which is further addressed in my # of plots statement at the end of the post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver blue View Post

    Some folks put a lot of time/effort/$ into getting the land they want, just like some put a lot of time/effort/$ into getting the gear they want.
    You're continuing to make false equivocations which makes me wonder if you actually read or understood my post since that was a key point of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver blue View Post
    ... you're going to have a hard time convincing them you're being altruistic and only care about the good of the game.
    That's actually a real strawman argument - I'm not trying to convince others im being altruistic and only care about the good of the game. I'm stating I'm advocating for playing the game as intended while the "carebear opposition (or w/e)" are not. I notice you, also, failed to attempt to address this statement:

    The game has a target server population to play as intended by design.


    Would you like to address it?



    Quote Originally Posted by Silver blue View Post
    You're applying your values to others. Would you allow others to force their values on to you?
    No offense intended but talk about "whooosh" from my last post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestrata @ Physician for dodging
    *is disappointed*
    Quote Originally Posted by Carebears 2016-2017
    ArcheAge: Craft. Claim. Conquer.
    i heard they lootmastered the levi.

  3. #133
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    Funny how everyone demanding a merge does not live on the servers they want merged.
    Meanwhile the people on those servers don't want mergers at all.

    Last merge there was a significant portion of the playerbase on those servers wanting a merge.
    That segment of the population no longer exists and is reduced to a gypsy guild roaming servers making demands.

    Too quote someone I play AA with everyday, "if they make me merge, I will just quit".
    No surprise there.

  4. #134
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    I will just quote this post from another similar thread where some poster were calling players greedy who dont want merges because they would lose their land.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekikyo View Post
    Not what they're saying at all, and to be honest, their intentions often have much more educated reasoning.

    1. Experience. We've done it before. We know the results. Not only has Archeage done it before, we've played 10 years + of MMOs that have done it before. When has a merger actually resulted in long term positive gains? Almost never. The short term benefits in games in which personal assets are limited even, are usually meager at best, immediately impacting many guilds who now have to rank with other guilds, fight other guilds for reduced boss resources, all in exchange for a brief spike in pvp. After the initial spike in pvp, mergers usually result in sharp drop offs of playership, to accommodate the loss of position, not by a guild's own choice, but because of a situation they never signed up for.

    2. Education. Any economically inclined player would know the following:

    -Each server has a limited number of resources, controlled by space, labor, time, boss spawns, and local restrictions (Auroria water). Every merger creates a drastic reduction of supply of all of the above, but doesn't address the fact there are less resources chasing the same amount of players.

    -Each server has differently developed politics. Many players have vastly different gear, structures, and even are on the server they are on to escape the very people who plagued them before transfers were available. Compared to the utility of a compact, isolated merger environment, the benefits of multiple servers are far greater. They create the capacity for population growth under ideal circumstances, whereas server mergers only provide further reasons for server populations to shrink.

    -When trying to maximize profit, a gaming publisher considers the people you call carebears, the people you call pvpers, and everyone else, to be all players, all sources of income, and all important to the consideration behind mergers. When you have 8 servers of at least 250,000 properties paying taxes in game, and shrink them to less servers, that's less patron, less taxes, less decorations bought, less items regarding house creation, and less people. As less people buy land, and land related goods, and populations shrink, they also lose gear related incomes, because less people are buying. For example, look at European servers. One of the reasons Apex is higher on Eu, is because there are less buyers. Their regrade charms are also higher because of this. Lower supply = higher price when demand is consistent. Revenue is important for a game's solvency, expansion and continued development. You're basically telling Trion and XP to take in a fraction of their revenue.

    -It doesn't solve any of the specific reasons servers shrunk on their own. The very servers now in danger of not being fun for pvpers, used to be full of them, full of carebears. Where'd they go over time? Boredom? Why are they bored? Guild Politics? How did guild politics encourage them to quit? Resource capping? Why are so few people geared enough to consider themselves competent pvpers after years of gameplay? Paywall? How much of game viability is impacted by purchases? Game structures? Does predictable spawns, and winner windfall style game development feel compatible to ALL players enough to feel they can participate? Do games that require either a huge immediate injection of cash. or YEARS of player in game development appeal to players in the long term?




    Server mergers solve none of these problems. They make them worse. They aren't carebear exclusive problems. They are financial problems, game development problems, publisher problems, capacity problems.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalliCat View Post
    You have decided that people who play for the farming and trading aspect of the game are not a valid playstyle and you dimish the value of land to that type of player which is to them as valuable as your gear is to you.

    Never said that. And that's another false equivocation between land and gear. However I will say if a "playstyle" requires the game to be played in a state vastly differently than as intended (i.e. an empty server) or if it is detrimental to other by design intended playstyles then yea, there might something wrong with the playstyle.

    I started to pick apart your arguments but then decided it'd be better to ask you to address this statement instead of a wall of text:

    The game has a target server population to play as intended by design.

    This is the fundamental idea IMO. The rest just muddies the water.


    Quote Originally Posted by CalliCat View Post
    That said, I have no problem with the idea of removing castles and world bosses and whatever content from some servers. .
    Generally you and I are not in disagreement then.

    Quote Originally Posted by CalliCat View Post
    Go one step further and just designate some PVE servers and be done with it
    That would absolutely ♥♥♥♥ the economy if they shared auction houses or the ability to xfer between them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestrata @ Physician for dodging
    *is disappointed*
    Quote Originally Posted by Carebears 2016-2017
    ArcheAge: Craft. Claim. Conquer.
    i heard they lootmastered the levi.

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudelord View Post
    All covered already in the post under the word "convenience"
    What is merely convenience to you may not be to others, thus my pointing out that you're applying your values to others, and my asking if we can do that to you.

    Going by 'good for the goose, good for the gander', then deleting your armor/weapons (and giving you a ticket for the celestial stuff they gave out a few weeks ago!) is merely a problem of convenience as you can easily obtain some armor/weapons. Sure, it may not be the same armor/weapons, but hey, by your own logic, that's just convenience, right?

    I'm not trying to convince others im being altruistic and only care about the good of the game.
    You're honest about this, which is refreshing. You're being selfish.

    The game has a target server population to play as intended by design.
    Since you're being selfish and not altruistic -- by your own declaration -- then the only thing that matters to you is what best benefits you. What trion intends is not important to you, so this question is a red herring.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by lumi View Post
    I will just quote this post from another similar thread where some poster were calling players greedy who dont want merges because they would lose their land.
    This was already picked apart several posts ago as nonsense, arguments for the status quo, and misleading.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestrata @ Physician for dodging
    *is disappointed*
    Quote Originally Posted by Carebears 2016-2017
    ArcheAge: Craft. Claim. Conquer.
    i heard they lootmastered the levi.

  8. #138
    Senior Member CalliCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudelord View Post
    Never said that. And that's another false equivocation between land and gear. However I will say if a "playstyle" requires the game to be played in a state vastly differently than as intended (i.e. an empty server) or if it is detrimental to other by design intended playstyles then yea, there might something wrong with the playstyle.

    I started to pick apart your arguments but then decided it'd be better to ask you to address this statement instead of a wall of text:

    The game has a target server population to play as intended by design.

    This is the fundamental idea IMO. The rest just muddies the water.




    Generally you and I are not in disagreement then.



    That would absolutely ♥♥♥♥ the economy if they shared auction houses or the ability to xfer between them.
    You are assuming that people having land requires the server to be empty. This is not the case at all. Some of us who have a wealth of land buy that land from other players. We don't get it for free because its just sitting there. I got 3 spots free when we were merged last time. 3 spots. Every other piece of land I have in Gweonid forest which is where I base my operations at I paid a pretty penny for. So you are making an assumption that my play style requires an empty server when in fact my server is far from empty and land is still selling at a premium in desired locations. So I don't know how to address your question because it does not apply. Having a lot of land does not require an empty server it just requires the willingness to do whatever it takes to get it.
    Call me Cat.

    Yes I do in fact have an opinion about everything. Thanks for asking.

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudelord View Post
    ...And that's another false equivocation between land and gear...
    The equivalence is the value to the person. Land is as valuable to some as gear is to others. Being selfish, you put what you value above what others value, thus your claim to 'false equivocation' (I think you meant 'equivalence', as equivocation ~means 'ambiguous').

  10. #140
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    Nice to see you've completely given up on trying to address the actual issues and are going after red herrings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver blue View Post
    What is merely convenience to you may not be to others, thus my pointing out that you're applying your values to others, and my asking if we can do that to you.
    Sorry, both land and gear have core functionalities that are not subjective. They may have qualities beyond that may be subjective such as aesthetics but the core functionality remains intact. You're just trying to paint with a wide brush to try to paint everything under the guise of "functionality" to maintain the flawed comparison. To which end, I have no idea, because I've already stated that equivocating land and gear is flawed. Again though, this is just mental gymnastics to avoid addressing this statement:

    The game has a target server population to play as intended by design.

    Going by 'good for the goose, good for the gander', then deleting your armor/weapons (and giving you a ticket for the celestial stuff they gave out a few weeks ago!) is merely a problem of convenience as you can easily obtain some armor/weapons. Sure, it may not be the same armor/weapons, but hey, by your own logic, that's just convenience, right?
    Yes, because opening a portal to non-adjacent piece of pre-constructed land is certainly of the same magnitude as your comparison. Please, don't waste my time with nonserious arguments. Do you really need someone to define "convenience" for you to not abuse it to cover anything and everything? You're not fooling or confounding anyone.

    You're honest about this, which is refreshing. You're being selfish.
    Another false equivocation since apparently "playing as intended" = "selfish." I'm not being anything.

    Since you're being selfish and not altruistic -- by your own declaration -- then the only thing that matters to you is what best benefits you. What trion intends is not important to you, so this question is a red herring.
    Now your just making things up. I never said I was any of those things, I corrected your previous unfounded claim that I wasn't trying to convince anyone of the opposite since motivation is not the issue of debate and is thus not relevant. You are just trying to muddy the water and make up excuses to not address the statement:

    The game has a target server population to play as intended by design.

    Listen, if you're going to pretend to be a serious person in one post and actually address the issues, point out fallacies in arguments, etc it really hurts your credibility to just make things up, commit blatant fallacies on purpose, and avoid discussing the actual issues in-favor of inventing new ones in another. Refusing to address my statement is pretty damning since it's so basic it can be considered prima facie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestrata @ Physician for dodging
    *is disappointed*
    Quote Originally Posted by Carebears 2016-2017
    ArcheAge: Craft. Claim. Conquer.
    i heard they lootmastered the levi.

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