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Thread: Oracle 2.0 God of the Archers (Current into 3.0)

  1. #11
    Senior Member Trusivraj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suffuri View Post
    Shame mages get that oh so balanced high speed/dps animation cancel.
    I feel they'll get their cast speed/animaitons nerfed soon enough. haha
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Trusivraj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloverhope View Post
    I love Oracle too, so fun to play in PvP but for PvE i preffer "Soulbow" perfect for non-stop grinding, soloing bosses.


    Open world or in any situation:


    Combo build:


    I think its the best archery class against mages and rlly fun.
    I like the more healsy options! I just hate how much mana it uses >.<
    Pew
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Cohiba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trusivraj View Post
    Oracle shines bright due to 2 amazing things.. dmg, ofcoarse.... and *CC/Combo Denial*

    **
    Unassailable- Immunity for 2 seconds. You're a real god for 2 seconds, make the most of it
    All of this while still being able to reach over 35% evasion and over 20% block if you like shields (and rng~), or straight up magic defense if you like magic shields. ( both shield sources less effective in 3.0)
    **
    Shields are not less effective in 3.0
    On the contrary, they are getting a buff, all shield defenses get almost doubled. (so far it seems that factor is 1.8x)

    The thing about hybrid classes, is that they are only decent in 1v1 or very small scale. In a large scale situation there is absolutely no reason for you to spend time healing yourself as an archer. Plus, most of the time you will either get bursted or not really take any damage at all. It happens very rarely that you take enough damage for vitalism to be worth it, but not enough damage to die. If you stop to heal you probably get wrecked tbh.
    Oracle is nice in 1v1 vs tanky mages and against some other archers, but I don't think it's an overall viable spec for every situation. In a raid as archer you have exactly one job: Put pressure on healers and kill enemy DPS.

    For that you need as much DPS and mobility as possible, you have to do heavy damage and chase/escape. Defenses or sustain are not your task. You have healers/songers for sustain and you aren't supposed to take damage in the first place. If you take damage either you are doing it wrong, or your raid is doing it wrong/losing the fight.

    I think the main issue is that shadowplay has toxic shot and drop back. Those skills are very relevant in raid PvP and the toxic shot is completely ridiculous since the endless arrows combo effect was added. Also stealth is quite crucial if you wanna survive as archer in open world, it's better than invincibility if you're not under a damage over time effect and far enough away to not be seen.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cohiba View Post
    Shields are not less effective in 3.0
    On the contrary, they are getting a buff, all shield defenses get almost doubled. (so far it seems that factor is 1.8x)

    The thing about hybrid classes, is that they are only decent in 1v1 or very small scale. In a large scale situation there is absolutely no reason for you to spend time healing yourself as an archer. Plus, most of the time you will either get bursted or not really take any damage at all. It happens very rarely that you take enough damage for vitalism to be worth it, but not enough damage to die. If you stop to heal you probably get wrecked tbh.
    Oracle is nice in 1v1 vs tanky mages and against some other archers, but I don't think it's an overall viable spec for every situation. In a raid as archer you have exactly one job: Put pressure on healers and kill enemy DPS.

    For that you need as much DPS and mobility as possible, you have to do heavy damage and chase/escape. Defenses or sustain are not your task. You have healers/songers for sustain and you aren't supposed to take damage in the first place. If you take damage either you are doing it wrong, or your raid is doing it wrong/losing the fight.

    I think the main issue is that shadowplay has toxic shot and drop back. Those skills are very relevant in raid PvP and the toxic shot is completely ridiculous since the endless arrows combo effect was added. Also stealth is quite crucial if you wanna survive as archer in open world, it's better than invincibility if you're not under a damage over time effect and far enough away to not be seen.
    I don't completely agree on that.

    Take this build for example http://archeagedatabase.net/us/calc/421998/

    * Can be at different places very fast to support
    * mirror light can completely stop someone for 1.5 sec + it will take 12% more damage = can be killed very fast by raid.
    * Can revive if needed (and since you are very mobile you can revive healers etc.. who are scattered at a possibly very fast rate)
    * Can perfectly chase ppl
    * can cast liberation + shrug, then go in enemy group -> skewer -> snare -> get the * out, perfect for softening them up for raid to kill in the meantime
    * Protective wings to ward raid from meteors etc.. maybe not common but can be very handy
    * When dual wielding as a oracle you will still have high dps.
    * Ok backdrop is nice but tbh this will not help you much when a few DR's n other battlerage users are chasing you.
    * Stay alive to do all of the above as long as possible and possibly keep your raid alive longer

    Imho could be very viable in raid pvp if played right.

    Whats your thought on this?
    Tetrax
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Cohiba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrax View Post
    I don't completely agree on that.

    Take this build for example http://archeagedatabase.net/us/calc/421998/

    * Can be at different places very fast to support
    * mirror light can completely stop someone for 1.5 sec + it will take 12% more damage = can be killed very fast by raid.
    * Can revive if needed (and since you are very mobile you can revive healers etc.. who are scattered at a possibly very fast rate)
    * Can perfectly chase ppl
    * can cast liberation + shrug, then go in enemy group -> skewer -> snare -> get the * out, perfect for softening them up for raid to kill in the meantime
    * Protective wings to ward raid from meteors etc.. maybe not common but can be very handy
    * When dual wielding as a oracle you will still have high dps.
    * Ok backdrop is nice but tbh this will not help you much when a few DR's n other battlerage users are chasing you.
    * Stay alive to do all of the above as long as possible and possibly keep your raid alive longer

    Imho could be very viable in raid pvp if played right.

    Whats your thought on this?
    Well mirror light is nice, reviving healers is also nice but this is time spent where you should be dpsing. Going into the enemies for a skewer + snare will get you killed and snare has a very small radius, I don't think that's worth it at all tbh. protective wings get's interrupted by CC, so won't be very amazing against meteor, maybe gods whip
    You won't have time to keep your raid alive if you want to dps and CC and revive people, you'd need infinite attack speed and cast time to make this effective I feel.

    When you are in a raid you always focus on one thing and try to be the most effective possible at it. Either it's DPS or it's utility or disruption. This is a heavy mix of half dps and half utility, basically meaning you won't have as much DPS as you could have and won't have as much utility as you could have. The archery you are speccing is not really useful to the raid, since your damage will probably be outhealed by enemy songcrafters unless you have insane gear. And if you DO have insane gear, then you are way better off going full damage and 3shotting every enemy DPS, rather than spending ages reviving people etc.
    Just compare the DPS output to a spec like this:

    http://archeagedatabase.net/us/calc/422008
    what you are missing:
    archery:
    1. snipe
    2. float
    3. ranged crit passive
    shadowplay:
    1. toxic shot burst + crazy dps combo for endless
    2. another ranged crit passive
    3. freerunner dps, movespeed and immunity to enemy archers toxic shot combo
    4. overwhelm + shadowsmite + throw dagger burst/defense combo vs melees
    5. drop back escape, shadow step escape, stealth escape
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cohiba View Post
    Well mirror light is nice, reviving healers is also nice but this is time spent where you should be dpsing. Going into the enemies for a skewer + snare will get you killed and snare has a very small radius, I don't think that's worth it at all tbh. protective wings get's interrupted by CC, so won't be very amazing against meteor, maybe gods whip
    You won't have time to keep your raid alive if you want to dps and CC and revive people, you'd need infinite attack speed and cast time to make this effective I feel.

    When you are in a raid you always focus on one thing and try to be the most effective possible at it. Either it's DPS or it's utility or disruption. This is a heavy mix of half dps and half utility, basically meaning you won't have as much DPS as you could have and won't have as much utility as you could have. The archery you are speccing is not really useful to the raid, since your damage will probably be outhealed by enemy songcrafters unless you have insane gear. And if you DO have insane gear, then you are way better off going full damage and 3shotting every enemy DPS, rather than spending ages reviving people etc.
    Just compare the DPS output to a spec like this:

    http://archeagedatabase.net/us/calc/422008
    what you are missing:
    archery:
    1. snipe
    2. float
    3. ranged crit passive
    shadowplay:
    1. toxic shot burst + crazy dps combo for endless
    2. another ranged crit passive
    3. freerunner dps, movespeed and immunity to enemy archers toxic shot combo
    4. overwhelm + shadowsmite + throw dagger burst/defense combo vs melees
    5. drop back escape, shadow step escape, stealth escape
    Prime is good yes, i play it too. But you are underestimating the possibilities with oracle imho.
    Archery is also about sustained damage. Dead prime = no damage
    And once you hit a certain gear lvl the damage difference is not that huge.

    pure dps yes prime wins for sure.
    Sustain, not rly. And that can make a big difference. Also depends heavely of type of raid fights.
    Tetrax
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrax View Post
    Prime is good yes, i play it too. But you are underestimating the possibilities with oracle imho.
    Archery is also about sustained damage. Dead prime = no damage
    And once you hit a certain gear lvl the damage difference is not that huge.

    pure dps yes prime wins for sure.
    Sustain, not rly. And that can make a big difference. Also depends heavely of type of raid fights.
    Thats true, in raid v raid i found it very useful (besides entertaining) and in another situations i save my partners with my healings (this is the real support archer). I rlly dont like to use float coz every good dr with stealth and good vision of his enviroment will 1 shoot you with behind enemy lines, so i like to spend that point in the 3rd passive of auramancy "Inspiration Cloak" and ofc this class needs to be played with the 2nd passive from Vitalism

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trusivraj View Post
    I like the more healsy options! I just hate how much mana it uses >.<
    resurgence and renewal its a must for me, yeah i need more mana pots but its rlly rlly usefull in every situations.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Cohiba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrax View Post
    Prime is good yes, i play it too. But you are underestimating the possibilities with oracle imho.
    Archery is also about sustained damage. Dead prime = no damage
    And once you hit a certain gear lvl the damage difference is not that huge.

    pure dps yes prime wins for sure.
    Sustain, not rly. And that can make a big difference. Also depends heavely of type of raid fights.
    I guess oracle does have its uses of course, it's not a bad class. I just feel that hybrid classes are generally less effective and efficient than pure classes are in a raid setup.
    The only further point I have to clarify is your line "and once you hit a certain gear lvl the damage difference is not that huge"

    since almost all of archers' damage is scaling (low/no base damages), pretty much all your damage scalings are multiplicative.
    This means, that the more gear/basedamage you have, the higher the amplifiers' impact becomes.
    Short example:
    If you have insane gear and really good ranged attack and ranged critical damage and agility, you will scale extremely heavily with critical chance in your DPS output. This makes the archery and shadowplay passives that give you 5% base and 10% continuous crit chance extremely valuable, especially in raid fights where intensity does not cover the entire duration of the PvP encounter.
    Why crit chance is so special? Let me explain in an example:
    Spoiler:


    So if you crit damage is 70% (that means your crits do exactly 1.7x damage), a 10% increase in crit chance is roughly equivalent to a 7% increase in dps. If you have 150% crit damage (amazing gear) it's equivalent to 15% dps increase. That's more than twice as much of an effect from this passive on a well geared archer.
    So this is the exact opposite of your statement saying that at higher gear levels it doesn't matter as much. Exceptions apply to other classes:
    Spoiler:


    Now my main point:
    Toxic shot applies a 33% damage boost to endless arrows, which is HUGE.. especially since endless arrows is heavily affected by flat reduction (yes, the stuff that makes you hit 1 1 1 sometimes), multipliers are crucial for DPS here. (the 33% scales to over 100% and even 1000% dps increase with enemy flat reduction and/or brick wall spellbooks, calculations below)

    To show this on an example:
    Spoiler:


    Result:
    Defense penetration is what helps you kill squishies, damage multipliers what lets you kill tanky enemies(works on everyone, but strongest on tanks and endless arrows).
    Hope this explains why sometimes you hit huge damage on endless arrows and sometimes you hit barely anything.. and why you crit 160 with noncrits hitting for 1 sometimes.

    AND... why primeval is significantly stronger than oracle DPS wise, and the difference is much larger than you might think.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Trusivraj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cohiba View Post
    I guess oracle does have its uses of course, it's not a bad class. I just feel that hybrid classes are generally less effective and efficient than pure classes are in a raid setup.
    The only further point I have to clarify is your line "and once you hit a certain gear lvl the damage difference is not that huge"

    since almost all of archers' damage is scaling (low/no base damages), pretty much all your damage scalings are multiplicative.
    This means, that the more gear/basedamage you have, the higher the amplifiers' impact becomes.
    Short example:
    If you have insane gear and really good ranged attack and ranged critical damage and agility, you will scale extremely heavily with critical chance in your DPS output. This makes the archery and shadowplay passives that give you 5% base and 10% continuous crit chance extremely valuable, especially in raid fights where intensity does not cover the entire duration of the PvP encounter.
    Why crit chance is so special? Let me explain in an example:
    Spoiler:


    So if you crit damage is 70% (that means your crits do exactly 1.7x damage), a 10% increase in crit chance is roughly equivalent to a 7% increase in dps. If you have 150% crit damage (amazing gear) it's equivalent to 15% dps increase. That's more than twice as much of an effect from this passive on a well geared archer.
    So this is the exact opposite of your statement saying that at higher gear levels it doesn't matter as much. Exceptions apply to other classes:
    Spoiler:


    Now my main point:
    Toxic shot applies a 33% damage boost to endless arrows, which is HUGE.. especially since endless arrows is heavily affected by flat reduction (yes, the stuff that makes you hit 1 1 1 sometimes), multipliers are crucial for DPS here. (the 33% scales to over 100% and even 1000% dps increase with enemy flat reduction and/or brick wall spellbooks, calculations below)

    To show this on an example:
    Spoiler:


    Result:
    Defense penetration is what helps you kill squishies, damage multipliers what lets you kill tanky enemies(works on everyone, but strongest on tanks and endless arrows).
    Hope this explains why sometimes you hit huge damage on endless arrows and sometimes you hit barely anything.. and why you crit 160 with noncrits hitting for 1 sometimes.

    AND... why primeval is significantly stronger than oracle DPS wise, and the difference is much larger than you might think.
    Moments like these are reasons I need to make videos and stop procrastinating. xD

    I made a clear point that primes have superior dps from offensive skill amounts alone, and having stalkers mark. They'll always be wanted for that. The points you attempt to make about never needing to heal however.. are rather biased, as there are plenty of HAM players out there willing to die for you.. to die. Lol

    We've had some of the biggest GS transfer here to Tahyang, I've fought against many of them dual wielding, as an oracle. Also prime may seem like the #1 choice, but in this current meta, you have 0 survival in a situation that requires you mitigate high amounts of burst coming in from flanked loactions. I consistently get out of those tele>hellspear>red dragon pull>mage ball situations alive at full hp because I have the sustain, and anti cc to do so. You get out of that flank atk as prime, and you're limping if anything. DR is so viable because they're really half tank (5 seconds), half assassin, which is just enough to rush 1 or 3 ppl, depending on your gear, before you die. That's some pretty good trade off if I do say so myself. I get focused in my raids, why? Because I'm squishy (T4 divine) but with a godly T6 legendary bow, YET I'm usually the last one standing in that situation, because when they come after me, even if the first thing they do is precision, I just shrug, snare them in place mirror them or myself, heal and laugh as I dps them down with my raid. The class isn't a tank archer, it's a sustain/high-dmg support. It's purpose isn't to focus healers. It's to focus whatever squishy target is closest and outwit any opposer's through kiting and heals. Primes will never be replaced, stalkers mark and the bonuses yu mentioned show that. However, you don't see as many primes as you think you should either, because everyone is building against some form of dmg. My class resists both, with the option to wear a shield if it pleases, just to be more of a nuisance. You should really come visit me on Tahyang I love to demonstrate, cuz talk in the end, is cheap. KEEP UP THE CONVO GUYS! I LOVE TO HEAR YOUR OPPINIONS!! <3
    Pew
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