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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traciatim View Post
    Because no one has ever used alts in any other games to get around limitations...
    I dare to say most haven´t until AA.
    I can think of many players in WoW for example, that never used alt accounts, but started quite soon after playing AA.

    And there were gating mechanics in the form of that you could generate a crafting ingredient just once per day/week. That was enough to keep the rarity.
    You could use alt chars to get another CD, because you weren´t limited account wide by something like labor.
    You could mine your a.. off for days if you really wanted.

    And guess what? The economy did not collapse.

    Labor is simply a mechanic to foster credit sales - nothing more.
    It´s no magic way to protect a a game economy from abuse (that will always happen), nor does it make prices more reasonable.

    Open your eyes for once and accept that games like AA are primarily designed to foster cash shop sales above all else. Every single mechanic in the game is aimed towards this.

    So it´s basically the players fault after all. Falling for Trinos/XLs bait and switch.

    The only way to fix this is abandoning the game.
    Die Gedankenfreiheit ist die einzig wahre und die größte Freiheit, die der Mensch erreichen kann.

  2. #22
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    Labor system is a masterpiece, should be in all MMORPG's.

    Luckily XL games invented the new stadard for MMORPG'S here.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mundtot View Post
    I dare to say most haven´t until AA.
    I can think of many players in WoW for example, that never used alt accounts, but started quite soon after playing AA.

    And there were gating mechanics in the form of that you could generate a crafting ingredient just once per day/week. That was enough to keep the rarity.
    You could use alt chars to get another CD, because you weren´t limited account wide by something like labor.
    You could mine your a.. off for days if you really wanted.

    And guess what? The economy did not collapse.

    Labor is simply a mechanic to foster credit sales - nothing more.
    It´s no magic way to protect a a game economy from abuse (that will always happen), nor does it make prices more reasonable.

    Open your eyes for once and accept that games like AA are primarily designed to foster cash shop sales above all else. Every single mechanic in the game is aimed towards this.

    So it´s basically the players fault after all. Falling for Trinos/XLs bait and switch.

    The only way to fix this is abandoning the game.
    If you think people don't use alts in other games you are delusional. People have been using alts in games since the dawn of multiplayer gaming.

    Sure, you can mine all day in WOW. But they do things like the nodes are spread out, the node respawn times are gated, there are only a few nodes of certain things... and use many other gating mechanics. Where in ArcheAge you can go to one single spot and you can't even mine the area fast enough for the nodes to not respawn without going seriously out of your way to stack production speed buffs. If there are two people mining one area in WOW you may as well leave since you can't get enough to be worth your time.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Pillan View Post
    Labor is really the only down fall of this game. Even if you pay for the monthly sub it still sux. And you have the cash sink regards? WOW didn't even have that. I'm lost, time sink grind , time sink mining, farming , crafting you name it, doesn't make sense. and labor? really
    Labor/ proficiency limitations keep the in game market in balance. Gold sinks keep the market healthy because there is never too much gold. If inflation caused an ayanad weapon to grow to 30k for a celestial, potato farmers would still complain because it takes too many potatos to farm to acquire it. The farming aspect of the game allows people who are not interested in many pvp-related money making methods the opportunity to make gold safely all-be-it much slower. The bottom line though is that this is a sandbox game and it allots you a great deal of freedom in terms of gold making.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traciatim View Post
    If you think people don't use alts in other games you are delusional. People have been using alts in games since the dawn of multiplayer gaming.

    Sure, you can mine all day in WOW. But they do things like the nodes are spread out, the node respawn times are gated, there are only a few nodes of certain things... and use many other gating mechanics. Where in ArcheAge you can go to one single spot and you can't even mine the area fast enough for the nodes to not respawn without going seriously out of your way to stack production speed buffs. If there are two people mining one area in WOW you may as well leave since you can't get enough to be worth your time.
    Never said that. Claiming that i meant that doesn´t make your argument valid in any regard.

    I implied that a majority of players didn´t use a second, third etc. account in mmo´s before AA, because there was no need for it to be competetive.

    MultiAcc/MultiBoxers exist for a very long time now, that is no secret. Especially for gold farming and selling.

    The single, average gamer however, that is a different story.

    -----------------------------

    As for resources, your example lacks. Due to the more spread resources you have "flight time" in between the nodes, thus more ppl can be in a zone still having valid returns.

    You imply that in AA the nodes respawn fast enough to handle a higher population which is just wrong. The "spot" doesn´t really matter, Solis, Glitterstone, hell even underwater near Cinder for starhards - if you have 2 ppl with a decent mining skills and gloves, not even needing the food or other buffs you can well get past the respawn time.
    With 3 ppl? Forget it, not worth even going.

    The reasoning is bots. Honestly? Even in WoW with bots the market did not crash.

    You might wanna close your eyes about the truth, but labor is just what it is.

    A central game mechanic with the sole purpose of fostering cash shop sales.

    I am not even argueing the need for a company to earn money, but these rather extreme gating mechanics on one hand, almost no content on the other to justify the additional income... i mean come on, nobody can be that blind.

    Or lacking common sense.
    Die Gedankenfreiheit ist die einzig wahre und die größte Freiheit, die der Mensch erreichen kann.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traciatim View Post
    Because no one has ever used alts in any other games to get around limitations...
    You missed the point entirely. I'm not against Alts. I played with 4 accounts myself.

    I'm saying, although someone may argue that running alts uncaps labor and allows players to "catch up," it doesn't serve that purpose, because

    1) Your wealthy competitors also do it.
    2) You eventually run out of "Time" to add more accounts and manage them, and real fatigue.

    The most well geared players I met in archeage all ran 10+ accounts, were also major spenders, and ironclad niches with whom they had symbiotic play.

    In other words, a New player running 10+ accounts, a ton of time, and spending would not catch them up. At best, it would make their progression parallel with their opponents who are already wealthy and wealthy for years.

    I don't have a problem with the freedoms to account. I support that freedom, especially because of how land ownership was originally designed, and even moreso now.

    What I have a problem with, is Trion basically told players exactly how much gold 1 credit was worth, by selling Worker's Compensations, by selling Taxes, and later by selling Rumbling Trees. There are basic math calculations which tell you exactly how much gold a credit should be worth in those items, even if the gold sinks in the game themselves are over-effective and on average for 99% of the community outstrips gold production.

    In a system where only 1% of players are capable of saving, because the other 99% are saving to buy the items the 1% are selling or sinking gold producing weapons/armor/regrading, that was a horrible idea. It created a system where sellers knew what price point to sell Regrade charms for by simply multiplying to cost of a credit by 4000, even if 99% can't afford the price that produces on a significant level (the 99% might be able to buy 1-2 regrade charms here or there, but you realistically need 300+ per item you're creating, unless you're lucky)

    The result is a system of two norms: 1% see their legendary + which cost 300+ Charms as normal, obtainable gear on some realistic curve, and discriminate against the 99% as "lazy."

    99% justify Divine/Epic as normal, obtainable gear, and discriminate against the 1% for being whales and resellers.

    Another lack of development insight, and one that BDO shares, is Archeage was designed not to ever obsolete old gear development among rational investors. (This is the reason BDO gets boring to players, and the reason Archeage rich never lose value, and only increase value, and also get bored).

    Unlike most MMO's I've seen, Archeage was designed to build off old gear, and give a very, very predictable path.
    For example, rational gearers know that material development from Obsidian T6 to T7 builds a 4th tier of craftable materials out of Tier 3 Materials. They know specifically, that the best Delphinad/Ayanad Bow to hold is a Volcano, because it will be the next tier on gear escalation. They know that investing in T7 Armor that is Legendary, and those mainstream weapons of Legendary/Mythic will be a safe investment as well, because they will upgrade.

    However, because only the 1% can afford those items in realistic currency streams, only that 1% (there are some small exceptions) can hedge on new content and almost immediately be ready for it.

    Most other games combat this predictability, by making expansion gear unrelated to old gear. When you graduate from Episode 2 gear to Episode 3 gear, Episode 2 gear just becomes cheap grind gear. The result is that even a new player can reliably obtain the new Episode 3 gear, and catch up somewhat (they still have to get past the enchant barriers).

    In a game where you build off old wealth perpetually, there's no way for a new player to catch up, because the old investment is all still there.

    Now. XL is aware of this and has implemented two changes to combat it a bit: They rebalanced skills to make more of a skill's damage part of its base, and they rebalanced Defense/Resist. Those are a couple important band-aids, but they don't solve the 15% exponential per tier increase entirely.

  7. #27
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    Oh I hated the labour system so much when I first started playing but I grew to love how it worked, how it made me manage my online game time etc etc... and then it started to make no sense because all you had to do was make alts and you had as much labour as you wanted and then it made even more sense because to make those alt accounts effective you made them patron..... I hope whoever came up with those ideas got paid how much they were worth..
    I've started to support global warming in the hope that it will melt all the snowflakes...

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