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  Click here to go to the first Archeage Team post in this thread.   Thread: Archeage - New Players and Why They Quit - Episode 1 of "Problems with Archeage"

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamthesky View Post
    What big cash shop buys do you think you really need?
    Lots of Apex to sell. Just to get a Divine set and weapon is 60k or so on my current server. If you're very lucky. Then roughly the same to gem it. Depending on luck.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by scannall View Post
    Lots of Apex to sell. Just to get a Divine set and weapon is 60k or so on my current server. If you're very lucky. Then roughly the same to gem it. Depending on luck.
    you dont NEED to do that, you can make the gold needed in a month. my personal suggestion if you are going to spend dont spend on straight gear spend on infrastructure to make you gold faster.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member wooglemoogle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzy View Post
    I'll be watching these.

    I have a bit of advice, or maybe just a suggestion. You have a ton of knowledge and insight. With this, you can provide a lot of help to new players (such as myself).

    Instead of coming at this from a negative standpoint, consider using that substantial knowledge to enlighten new players - give them tips on what NOT to do. I'll admit, the game doesn't do a good job of explaining itself to a new player. I struggled, but once I started asking questions, I learned a lot that accelerated my progress. You said a few things in this video that were incredibly useful and I wish I had heard when I was just starting.
    In the past and the present as well, there are many players that try to help newbies when they can and even try to get them stoked about fun stuff in the game they can work towards. But Muzzy, I have to agree with the perspective Taiver's coming from to some extent. Ultimately, we've long reached the limit to what players can do to get new players into the game and make it more enjoyable for them, there's not much else that can be done without action from XL/Trion. And while Trion's been making an effort to communicate more and discuss things with XL, there hasn't really been any significant impact to show for it (yet).

    The following is a personal experience, so it can't really be extrapolated to the general community, but I think it's a good example of what I mean by "the limit of what players can do." Whether it's through community mediums (forums/subreddit) or in-game, I always try to answer questions to newer players with a lot of context and alternatives. If they want to get geared, but can't afford higher-tier stuff, I lead them towards dropped gear or PvE sets that they could obtain themselves. If they want to farm, but don't have Patron to own property, I tell them about wild crops or "illegal" farming in a general sense with some subtle hints. In this way, they're able to experience the game without really getting "carried" through it and missing out on the fun of self-discovery.

    But even though there always seems to be a workaround or an alternative that newbies can learn from veterans, it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of obstacles in this game for the new player. Almost everything they learn about and find the desire to do comes with some sort of catch: they follow a secret quest line to a hidden boss mob, but don't really get anything for it but a couple silver because it was nerfed to the ground; they try experimenting with different professions, but get restricted by labor limitations; they want to try certain sandbox activities, but are hit with a level restriction; they want to try out dungeons, but there are no groups for it because dungeons are basically optional; they want to try selling items on the Auction House, but can't because they don't have Patron or an Auction License; etc.

    No matter how a veteran tries to make things easier for a new player, just seeing an obstacle come up everytime and feeling like there's never anything resembling a break just tanks morale. And for veterans, it instills a "what's the point?" kind of mentality when their effort helping out newbies pan out to nothing because of how newbies end up viewing the game. Ultimately it's XL's choice on how they want the game's atmosphere to be (perhaps they want it to be somewhat challenging and stressful) and this isn't trying to say that's wrong. It's just pointing out that the way a lot of game features are at the moment, there are plenty of opportunities for a player's "spirit" to be broken before they even begin. If you're looking for a underlying root cause, that's really it for why new players don't stay. For something more specific and tangible, you do have to go into the kind of details Taiver did with certain aspects.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamthesky View Post
    you dont NEED to do that, you can make the gold needed in a month. my personal suggestion if you are going to spend dont spend on straight gear spend on infrastructure to make you gold faster.
    So a brand new undergeared player can make 120,000 gold in a month? I was born in the morning, but not yesterday morning.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Taiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzy View Post
    I'll be watching these.

    I have a bit of advice, or maybe just a suggestion. You have a ton of knowledge and insight. With this, you can provide a lot of help to new players (such as myself).

    Instead of coming at this from a negative standpoint, consider using that substantial knowledge to enlighten new players - give them tips on what NOT to do. I'll admit, the game doesn't do a good job of explaining itself to a new player. I struggled, but once I started asking questions, I learned a lot that accelerated my progress. You said a few things in this video that were incredibly useful and I wish I had heard when I was just starting.

    You've got a lot of good ideas here, and I'm interested in seeing the good discussion it brings so that I can put it together into a report to send to XL. You say that new players are the lifeblood of a game. Consider that the way the community presents itself to them has a major impact on those new players. Contributing to the community by way of teaching is a fantastic way to help bring in and keep new players.

    I'm not saying this video is ignorable - on the contrary. It's actually got a lot of potential to create discussion in the forums and among the community. Suggestions on how to 'fix aa' are fantastic, however often times the community will get caught up on the details of why a specific suggestion will or won't work, when what really needs to happen is just identifying the underlying root of the issue for XL to consider when approaching a tweak or overhaul.

    Just for a newish perspective, I've been playing for about 670-ish hours and have a 4.1 k gs. I felt the pain of not being able to participate in PvP or major world bosses, but it gave me something to aim for. I worked hard, got gold, bought items, regraded some. I have decided not to do any gemming because I'm waiting for the new gem system in 4.0, so my GS will suffer until then. I did halcy with 3k gs and had a blast, even if I died a lot. I purposely didn't join a guild until last month because I realized that most new players would also be in that situation (and also because I was trying to avoid claims of favoritism), so now I understand the new player condition much more. Since joining a guild, the world has opened up to me. I still get rekt, but I have way more to do and much more fun with it. I'm being tutored and asking tons of questions. It's a much better experience. If I had control, I'd find ways to more strongly incentivize guilds picking up newer players and teaching them. I STILL don't know all the systems in the game, but over the past 4 months the amount of new information continues to be staggering - in an exciting kind of way. I know I can't hang with the big boys, but there there are still plenty of adventures for me to have.

    I watched a bunch of AA teaching videos and they were a source of encouragement in the face of a system that doesn't pander to new players. Maybe your videos could shift gear and provide that kind of support to the community as well? I know I'd appreciate it. And I'd be happy to share good instructional/tip videos with the community via blogs, social networks, and livestreams.

    Here's to the community becoming the best PR the game could ask for, as it's already the most powerful PR the game has.

    Cheers,
    Muzzy
    One of the problems in archeage actually is too much reliance on the playerbase to hand-hold new players and show them the world, Aladdin style,
    It can work but its too much effort for people that have done it a million times. Games work best when they keep things fresh with new dungeons or level caps introducing brand new stuff every so often to allow older players to not be overpowered and get bored. When its the same 5 dungeons for 3 years, it gets a little stale. Combine this with the average gear level constantly going up but the gear new players have access to remaining the same, you have a system where, like right now, nobody can be bothered boosting someone for GHA gear, because its worthless. Might as well just get some cheap stuff off AH which would be about the same.

    Also, you mention about using my knowledge to give new players insight into the game. This can work but I wouldn't be able to get the message out to more than a small minority of the game. This isn't enough to help the playerbase overall. A solution that helps everyone needs to be found. People like me helping some is a short term, small solution. Relying on older players to take the place of village elder and be the source of all knowledge and assist is asking too much.

    The problem with archeage Muzzy here, is you have played for only 600 hours.
    You are still having fun, 4k GS and whatever else you are doing. Its likely you spent a little cash in the game but even if you didn't. How long will the fun last? To go from 4k, up to 5k GS, takes 1000s of hours. then more from 5k to 6k and even then, nothing changes. You still get 1 shot, you still get "rekt" in pvp and the fun will become stale. Atleast that's the opinion of a lot of people, maybe not all, maybe not you but many feel this way.

    You will get bored of being killed in pvp soon enough. Thakns for the feedback though, its nice to see people reading and listening to what I have to say. Episode 2 is coming now. I have atleast 2 more after this that I will be releasing.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Taiver View Post
    One of the problems in archeage actually is too much reliance on the playerbase to hand-hold new players and show them the world, Aladdin style,
    It can work but its too much effort for people that have done it a million times. Games work best when they keep things fresh with new dungeons or level caps introducing brand new stuff every so often to allow older players to not be overpowered and get bored. When its the same 5 dungeons for 3 years, it gets a little stale. Combine this with the average gear level constantly going up but the gear new players have access to remaining the same, you have a system where, like right now, nobody can be bothered boosting someone for GHA gear, because its worthless. Might as well just get some cheap stuff off AH which would be about the same.

    Also, you mention about using my knowledge to give new players insight into the game. This can work but I wouldn't be able to get the message out to more than a small minority of the game. This isn't enough to help the playerbase overall. A solution that helps everyone needs to be found. People like me helping some is a short term, small solution. Relying on older players to take the place of village elder and be the source of all knowledge and assist is asking too much.

    The problem with archeage Muzzy here, is you have played for only 600 hours.
    You are still having fun, 4k GS and whatever else you are doing. Its likely you spent a little cash in the game but even if you didn't. How long will the fun last? To go from 4k, up to 5k GS, takes 1000s of hours. then more from 5k to 6k and even then, nothing changes. You still get 1 shot, you still get "rekt" in pvp and the fun will become stale. Atleast that's the opinion of a lot of people, maybe not all, maybe not you but many feel this way.

    You will get bored of being killed in pvp soon enough. Thakns for the feedback though, its nice to see people reading and listening to what I have to say. Episode 2 is coming now. I have atleast 2 more after this that I will be releasing.
    You, sir, are the best guildleader I've experienced thus far, and I've been playing since the very beginning. I do not spent real money on this game because I lack those monetary resources, and my gs is 4.7k. I've simply given up the gs-goal completely, but at the same time still can enjoy the game sporadically when the guild is doing something fun together.. like stealing packs from a certain player beginning with the letter 'C'

    I've a real job and can't spent and won't spent all of my hours in the game as if it was a job. I do occasional traderuns, cargoruns, and farming, this is my business mainly. I got over 4k g, but that is it for now. If I spent it on something worthy, it's gone and I will need a long time to get back to 4k g again.

    I got soulforged gear on my main (and alts, ty Trion) and got some other good items thnx to the sale of apexes which I got via mining on an alt on NA, among other servers. I got divine obsidian gear, but not wearing that, yet. Waiting until I get that up to par with my current gs - like I said I'm in no hurry anymore (the stress that gives is useless, ther eis NO way to catch up with whales), and a couple of other reasons.

    Yeah, investing helps so every now and then, but real investments need a real good amount of gold in the first place, and there is still a risk it won't work out and you end up with less. I'm grateful I'm in a guild where the high gs players do not act elitist towards the medium and low gs players, ty for that level of comfort.

    This was more a personal ty
    “Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.”
    - Jalaluddin Rumi

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taiver View Post
    One of the problems in archeage actually is too much reliance on the playerbase to hand-hold new players and show them the world, Aladdin style,
    It can work but its too much effort for people that have done it a million times. Games work best when they keep things fresh with new dungeons or level caps introducing brand new stuff every so often to allow older players to not be overpowered and get bored. When its the same 5 dungeons for 3 years, it gets a little stale. Combine this with the average gear level constantly going up but the gear new players have access to remaining the same, you have a system where, like right now, nobody can be bothered boosting someone for GHA gear, because its worthless. Might as well just get some cheap stuff off AH which would be about the same.

    Also, you mention about using my knowledge to give new players insight into the game. This can work but I wouldn't be able to get the message out to more than a small minority of the game. This isn't enough to help the playerbase overall. A solution that helps everyone needs to be found. People like me helping some is a short term, small solution. Relying on older players to take the place of village elder and be the source of all knowledge and assist is asking too much.

    The problem with archeage Muzzy here, is you have played for only 600 hours.
    You are still having fun, 4k GS and whatever else you are doing. Its likely you spent a little cash in the game but even if you didn't. How long will the fun last? To go from 4k, up to 5k GS, takes 1000s of hours. then more from 5k to 6k and even then, nothing changes. You still get 1 shot, you still get "rekt" in pvp and the fun will become stale. Atleast that's the opinion of a lot of people, maybe not all, maybe not you but many feel this way.

    You will get bored of being killed in pvp soon enough. Thakns for the feedback though, its nice to see people reading and listening to what I have to say. Episode 2 is coming now. I have atleast 2 more after this that I will be releasing.
    Muzzy needs to try to run packs in conflict areas, get robbed, ask for help on faction and see the response (or lack of) to know what you mean Taiver. I have been checking in every now now and then to see if any things changed, and what I noticed is even the toxic responses from the past have now changed to no responses / views (not sure if either is better).

    I agree getting new players is key to entending a mmo lifecycle and have seen other games doing a lot more in this area than AA (warhammer would turn high level bullies into a chicken literally when they attack lower levels, wow have refer friend bonuses etc). It takes effort from both Trion and the community to build a fun and conducive game environment which would in turn attract new players but the mere suggestion of that results in non constructive responses from community like "care bears", and it doesn't help that publisher is focusing on cash shop items rather than new ways to get new players to join and keep playing because it's fun.

    Also, your point on "AA relies too much on player base to hand-hold new players and show them the world" is true as well. Game companies should be the ones coming up with ideas to attract and introduce new players, and not rely on player base so much. Even the constructive feedback to your first post is asking you to post ideas on what new players should do / should not do.

    Regardless, my wish is that maybe some new expansion might bring old players back (and attracting new ones), and hopefully trion does something then that would keep people in the game. The existing player base having experienced "ghost towns" may lower their toxic behaviour and be nice people for a change, but who am I kidding, pvp games always have a knack for drawing out the worst behaviour out of a person, that's how the cycle of swiping begins.

    I wonder if the feedback of my personal experience above would get my post deleted or banned maybe that's also another reason why lesser people are on nowadays.

    I must say though, despite everything that has happened, I don't regret playing or spending on AA, it has been one of my best journey in any mmo.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzy View Post
    I'll be watching these.

    I have a bit of advice, or maybe just a suggestion. You have a ton of knowledge and insight. With this, you can provide a lot of help to new players (such as myself).

    Instead of coming at this from a negative standpoint, consider using that substantial knowledge to enlighten new players - give them tips on what NOT to do. I'll admit, the game doesn't do a good job of explaining itself to a new player. I struggled, but once I started asking questions, I learned a lot that accelerated my progress. You said a few things in this video that were incredibly useful and I wish I had heard when I was just starting.

    You've got a lot of good ideas here, and I'm interested in seeing the good discussion it brings so that I can put it together into a report to send to XL. You say that new players are the lifeblood of a game. Consider that the way the community presents itself to them has a major impact on those new players. Contributing to the community by way of teaching is a fantastic way to help bring in and keep new players.

    I'm not saying this video is ignorable - on the contrary. It's actually got a lot of potential to create discussion in the forums and among the community. Suggestions on how to 'fix aa' are fantastic, however often times the community will get caught up on the details of why a specific suggestion will or won't work, when what really needs to happen is just identifying the underlying root of the issue for XL to consider when approaching a tweak or overhaul.

    Just for a newish perspective, I've been playing for about 670-ish hours and have a 4.1 k gs. I felt the pain of not being able to participate in PvP or major world bosses, but it gave me something to aim for. I worked hard, got gold, bought items, regraded some. I have decided not to do any gemming because I'm waiting for the new gem system in 4.0, so my GS will suffer until then. I did halcy with 3k gs and had a blast, even if I died a lot. I purposely didn't join a guild until last month because I realized that most new players would also be in that situation (and also because I was trying to avoid claims of favoritism), so now I understand the new player condition much more. Since joining a guild, the world has opened up to me. I still get rekt, but I have way more to do and much more fun with it. I'm being tutored and asking tons of questions. It's a much better experience. If I had control, I'd find ways to more strongly incentivize guilds picking up newer players and teaching them. I STILL don't know all the systems in the game, but over the past 4 months the amount of new information continues to be staggering - in an exciting kind of way. I know I can't hang with the big boys, but there there are still plenty of adventures for me to have.

    I watched a bunch of AA teaching videos and they were a source of encouragement in the face of a system that doesn't pander to new players. Maybe your videos could shift gear and provide that kind of support to the community as well? I know I'd appreciate it. And I'd be happy to share good instructional/tip videos with the community via blogs, social networks, and livestreams.

    Here's to the community becoming the best PR the game could ask for, as it's already the most powerful PR the game has.

    Cheers,
    Muzzy
    Hai sweetheart,
    I tried this myself but it seems the player base is too toxic for this. I also ran across people from my guild and people in general who when they left would say goodbye to me. I loved the non pvp aspect of the game and would try to get them to enjoy that side but after the community abused them so... they said they had to put up with that from work, the last thing they wanted to do is put up with it in their down time. The admins let people get away with physically threatening the lives of other players and instead of dealing with it they ask the victims to leave. The games mechanics were very good with some need for improvement true but it is the community that drove the game into the ground ultimately. I played the game nearly the entire 5 years it was up and I watched as the community grew more and more toxic and the player base was driven down. It wasn't till year three that I started hearing that people were just tired of the community over and over, and instead of moderating correctly, the staff encouraged it... even had a post encouraging people to verbally bash fellow players. I miss the game it was my second favorite next to Starwars Galaxies. Really hope they would put a non pvp version out there... that would cut a lot of the toxicity as for some reason being toxic in a pvp game seems to be a right of passage.

    💖XOXO💖
    𝓚𝓻𝔂𝓼𝓽𝓪𝓵
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    Mkay, bubbye
    XOXO
    Krystal
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  9. #19
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    Why are you replying to Muzzy? He's been gone for like a year now.
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