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Thread: Dagger vs Shortspear

  1. #1
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    Dagger vs Shortspear

    Primeval main here, wanting to know if there are any huge differences between dagger + dagger, vs dagger + shortspear

    thanks

    xd

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    shortspear + dagger better , if you could have x2 shortspears id suggest u to do it.

    short proc + passive is better then dagger's.
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  3. #3
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    u lost much dps with 2 shortspear..... go for 2 dagger more dmg (passive crit dmg is very good) in soft ppl and go for 1 short and 1 dagger for hard ppl, the shortspear proc -10k armor(have cd) .

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    you cannot equip x2 shortspears .........................
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  5. #5
    The spear gives a proc for feral mark randomly which is the buff float and deadeye give you. It decreases defense and avoidence stats a bit per stack of it, and after so many stacks it trips a person. The big thing about this proc is it also amps your conc damage a TON, so if you plan on bursting then you very much want the feral mark proc. The healing power is also nice on some occasions where you want to mess with classes like oracle, or just sustain yourself with ode as an ebonsong in places like abyssal (more options is always good.) Daggers give a bit more crit damage t1-t6, but do not give the feral mark proc, and at t7 the spear has the same crit damage as the dagger iirc.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilightmagus View Post
    The spear gives a proc for feral mark randomly which is the buff float and deadeye give you. It decreases defense and avoidence stats a bit per stack of it, and after so many stacks it trips a person. The big thing about this proc is it also amps your conc damage a TON, so if you plan on bursting then you very much want the feral mark proc. The healing power is also nice on some occasions where you want to mess with classes like oracle, or just sustain yourself with ode as an ebonsong in places like abyssal (more options is always good.) Daggers give a bit more crit damage t1-t6, but do not give the feral mark proc, and at t7 the spear has the same crit damage as the dagger iirc.
    The FM proc rate on the spear is low and without gem's and the passive duration bump, it's really hard to keep it up a meaningful amount of time. Yes the combo with conc is great, but a lot of time conc is used for the shackle more than the damage and hoping that it lines up with some RNG based proc from spear is not something I will think about.

    Obviously if you can take it to T7, then SS is better currently, but I am not in that position so I have been running two daggers and dont miss the spear proc at all.

    Looking ahead I am not sure there even is feral mark from what we can see with deadeye and float and other passives. There is something else called Feral Mark, but it's mechanic is different so I am not sure its something new or replaces what we had. If its changed how does that impact the proc on the short spear, will it even be there? The combo with conc is also gone either way. To many 'unknowns' so personally not planning to make any major investments. I am getting my mats organized for another t7, but will hold off till we have more information on what 4.5 is changing.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Trusivraj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwardo View Post
    The FM proc rate on the spear is low and without gem's and the passive duration bump, it's really hard to keep it up a meaningful amount of time. Yes the combo with conc is great, but a lot of time conc is used for the shackle more than the damage and hoping that it lines up with some RNG based proc from spear is not something I will think about.

    Obviously if you can take it to T7, then SS is better currently, but I am not in that position so I have been running two daggers and dont miss the spear proc at all.

    Looking ahead I am not sure there even is feral mark from what we can see with deadeye and float and other passives. There is something else called Feral Mark, but it's mechanic is different so I am not sure its something new or replaces what we had. If its changed how does that impact the proc on the short spear, will it even be there? The combo with conc is also gone either way. To many 'unknowns' so personally not planning to make any major investments. I am getting my mats organized for another t7, but will hold off till we have more information on what 4.5 is changing.
    I must say, I couldn't imagine not having that passive cc/dmg on my archer. It seems to proc just fine for me, proccing pretty much within the first 5 seconds of any fight, that isnt a tank. That knock down is exceptionally good when you need to find an opening/disruption on classes like healers and mages, it may be rng, but isnt all dmg/mitigation? The fact is also procs off DoT has won me quite a few "Ghost Kills" when im cc'd in the ground, with only a sliver of hp remaining on my opponent, or simply not needing to even risk atking to finish them off.

    Stack this with the current stalkers mark, and you have a ton of "ghost dmg" proccing, leaving your opponent baffled at what just happened. xD
    Pew
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trusivraj View Post
    I must say, I couldn't imagine not having that passive cc/dmg on my archer. It seems to proc just fine for me, proccing pretty much within the first 5 seconds of any fight, that isnt a tank. That knock down is exceptionally good when you need to find an opening/disruption on classes like healers and mages, it may be rng, but isnt all dmg/mitigation? The fact is also procs off DoT has won me quite a few "Ghost Kills" when im cc'd in the ground, with only a sliver of hp remaining on my opponent, or simply not needing to even risk atking to finish them off.

    Stack this with the current stalkers mark, and you have a ton of "ghost dmg" proccing, leaving your opponent baffled at what just happened. xD
    Spear proc rate is around 6%. Endless arrows is obviously your big driver for proc'ing feral mark, so because EA is ping dependent, so will the FM proc rate. My ping is in the high 60's, low 70's, for an average of 6 EA per second. This translates to a FM proc every 8.5 in perfect endless arrow spam conditions with no avoidance.

    If I am just 1v1ing some healer then I will switch to my SS/dagger because I am going to be doing consistent damage and thus more proc's and more stacks of feral aura, so its worthwhile. If I am fighting a mobile fight where I am dipping in and out, or in a group fight where I am switching targets a lot, attacking non-ideal targets, getting interrupted or having to kite focus out, I am going with dagger/dagger because in testing I am not getting enough FM proc's and even if I do I am not building enough FA stacks to make it worth while.

    Mileage varies depending on play style and situation, thus the importance of doing your own testing. Ideally I would get a T7 SS and then all is perfect, but not willing to do that until I see what 4.5 brings.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Trusivraj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwardo View Post
    Spear proc rate is around 6%. Endless arrows is obviously your big driver for proc'ing feral mark, so because EA is ping dependent, so will the FM proc rate. My ping is in the high 60's, low 70's, for an average of 6 EA per second. This translates to a FM proc every 8.5 in perfect endless arrow spam conditions with no avoidance.

    If I am just 1v1ing some healer then I will switch to my SS/dagger because I am going to be doing consistent damage and thus more proc's and more stacks of feral aura, so its worthwhile. If I am fighting a mobile fight where I am dipping in and out, or in a group fight where I am switching targets a lot, attacking non-ideal targets, getting interrupted or having to kite focus out, I am going with dagger/dagger because in testing I am not getting enough FM proc's and even if I do I am not building enough FA stacks to make it worth while.

    Mileage varies depending on play style and situation, thus the importance of doing your own testing. Ideally I would get a T7 SS and then all is perfect, but not willing to do that until I see what 4.5 brings.
    Very good points, sir. I pretty much never get a proc in large scale fights, and if im fighting enigs/drs, its all about whether or not theyre smart enough to spam every gap closer possible(dr), or just let me kite them to death (bad enigs/dr) i saw alot of backlash about mages losing 5m of range... wtf kind of mage doesnt jump in your face for starters, secondly, the current range difference doesnt even allow an archer to kite you, your ping quite literally erases the current range advantage, thus explaining the nerf, but im getting off topic. Haha
    Pew
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