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  Click here to go to the first Archeage Team post in this thread.   Thread: Creators Feedback - creators program and social media presence

  1. #1
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    Creators Feedback - creators program and social media presence

    Okay Trion, I have been making content out of your game for over a year now and as I might not be a huge creator, I’ve learned a lot and I am willing to share my knowledge to help this game. I've tried to reach out to some of Trion staff members individually in the past and was almost completely ignored. No matter how harsh this feedback will be, I decided to make it public for everyone to see because I believe some of my ideas can make a difference and Trion might need extra "wake up" shouts to improve.

    Those are the problems I have identified, will discuss here and suggest possible solutions:
    1. ArcheAge content creators need extra help from Trion, existing forms of support do not work properly.
    2. ArcheAge in social media is dying and with very little effort this can change

    Trion is not creating any database for this game, if we take into consideration that you are releasing patch notes few days before your game goes live, I come to a conclusion that main and most reliable source of information about ArcheAge comes from content creators. Examples: Mark doing KR patch notes translations months in advance, Aired testing tons of ingame mechanics on PTS, Jahlon creating 101 guides for players, Niver making showcases for costumes you are releasing, Yoruki showing us her creativity with housing areas or Jason creating gold making guides. Those are the ones I know but there are more. Those people did ton of great job, thanks to them, you dont need to do some of your work and you should be aware of it. Sadly, since Trion ocasionally mention how great those people are without actually helping them in their activities, ArcheAge became secondary content source for most creators mentioned above and you, Trion, don’t have anything to fill the void which will appear once those people are completely gone.

    Right now, you give your creators 2 things – exposure by reposting their content and codes with cosmetic items to give away. Codes are almost worthless because there are hundreds of “creators” which don’t create. Inactive program participants share them everywhere without any form of control and when those few really active creators make giveaways, audience shows very little interest because everyone and their mother already has a code. Months of same type of code make it even worse. My suggestion sent to you months ago was, of course, completely ignored. You could make secondary tier of creators with different rewards so most active creators would get bit more valuable stuff to give away and bit more requirements/reporting to recieve extra support. And it’s not like you don’t have goodies to giveaway, I remember a single streamer during patch 3.5 release who was telling everyone how “this guy from Trion” gave him and his friend 10 x packs worth 150$ each to give away during stream. And guess what? That streamer quit few days later! Most of creators mentioned above, are here for over a year, pull out much better audience numbers on the long run and get nothing from you, that’s how it is.

    You should also consider releasing creator kit: wallpapers, logos, stream overlays, high res images of new content etc. Not every creator is good with creating thumbnails and graphics for his/hers channel and you could use your existing resources to fix that for us, in exchange you would get pretty much free advertising space for Trion/ArcheAge logos on tens, if not hundreds, of creators channels. It is also in your best interest to allow us access to content earlier and test it on a proper test server which does not force us to put hundreds of hours into grinding just to test a feature we are interested in and make 2 minutes long video about it. Give us proper PTS and proper commands to gain knowledge about upcoming changes in a matter of minutes, not weeks.

    Second thing you offer to existing creators is exposure, but what exactly are you exposing us to?
    I can say this in my own name but I am pretty sure this works similar way for everyone – when you shared my video on your twitter profile, during last 365 days this video gained 35 views from Twitter. I think you also shared it on Facebook, from there I got 579 views in total. In both cases I am giving you number of sources out of entire social page, it’s possible that some of those views come from my social pages but I am unable to determine how many. Let’s assume everything I got from social pages came from official Trion channels, do you believe this is a satisfying result? Sure, we can blame me for making not interesting video / thumbnail that people just did not want to click on. But how will we explain those facts:

    I will use another popular and not recently released game example to make it more visible that something is not right.

    ArcheAge Twitter vs BDO's:
    Spoiler:



    Facebook profiles looks like this:
    Spoiler:



    YouTube channel:
    Spoiler:


    In every case you are doing a poor job, you are not competing and your channel’s are shrinking almost every day while your competitors, somehow, manage to get steady growth despite the fact that their game was also released years ago.

    Facebook. During last 7 days, out of over 225000 likes on the page, only 387 people interacted with it, not to mention you have zero response on FB and in some cases you even allow private server users to post under your paid posts and direct players to a private server. Yes you read it right, you pay for an ad and under it someone posts content related to private server which you don’t even care about.

    Twitter. In last 30 days you lost almost 300 followers. Last year 13.01.2017 you had 47850 followers, one year later you have 45250 followers which is a loss of 2600 followers in last year only.

    YouTube. You had nice December statistics but that’s probably because you paid for 4.0 ads. I summed up views from eleven months (without December) in 2017 and I get 12931 views in total which is 1175 average views per month.

    I get it, existing ArcheAge social pages are there to represent your game and they don’t need to grow, but putting some time into it would make it look so much better. Work on tags on Youtube, thumbnails for stream recordings, interaction with viewers not just on Twitter, some sort of social page giveaways and competition, anything helps! BDO and many other, older games can do it and grow, why can't you?
    I can help if you allow me to, I learned a thing of two and I am willing to work together for our common good. Just show a sign that you are listening and willing to work on changes so desperately needed for this game health. I am sure others are also willing to join forces with you if you are willing to work side by side like equals and stop treating me/us like a child, most of us are adults and we can contribute.

    I'm hoping this thread will initiate dialogue between Trion and their entire community to begin process of repair and changes positive for all of us and ArcheAge.

    Sites I have used to gather and present data in this thread:
    https://socialblade.com
    https://likealyzer.com
    IGN: Qembek, Qmk, Solmyr
    My channel (100+ ArcheAge videos, guides and tips): YouTube
    Casually streaming: Twitch

  2.   Click here to go to the next Archeage Team post in this thread.   #2
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    Thanks qembek. I do appreciate your feedback and all you do.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Aired's Avatar
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    Hiya Qembek, you and I have discussed this stuff in the past and while we don't agree with everything this stuff in particular we do.

    In the past, my level of frustration has been apparent with the PTS stuff. I've asked for specific help but was told they can't do anything special for me because it would be viewed as them playing favorites. While that is a valid reason, if I was just a normal player asking for this or that, but as a creator, I feel like perhaps we should get some additional support specifically if things requested are for content that "needs" to be created. Once recent exception was BDD providing me lockboxes to test the new lunarite drop rate.

    I like the "active" requirement and have ideas how that could be managed. It could be as easy as requiring 1 or 2 content submissions a month to keep the active status and those who remain active for a period of time could unlock special rewards like extra creator codes to higher tiered items like archeum packs, loyalty packs or marketplace costumes they give out themselves during livestreams. Creator programs are great for creators and publishers but it has to be managed, in that I say continual monitoring of what the creators are doing and where their codes are going. The program is a way to easy to get into and has no "rewards" for being an active or long time creator as you pointed out. The downside of this is that Mobi could not do this himself, the amount of people that apply and the amount of content he has to review for all Trion games seems like more than a 1 person job by itself and he's not only doing that but also managing the Atlas Reactor Community. If we were to add a new level to this creator program that required each member to be reviewed on a monthly basis, would most certainly require another couple people and some new software to manage submissions and creator levels. But it wouldn't be too difficult just require more staff.

    As for the decline of Archeage in Social Media, that is a whole separate thing. Archeage itself and XL, in particular, is the one to blame IMO. They have over the years made some horrible decessions, and I have gone on the record to try and address this in my 5.0 Unofficial Patch note series and post on Reddit. As the popularity of the game has declined so has those who want to engage with it in Social Media. I've noticed this on my own social media since I'm hard tied to the game, fewer players fewer followers, views, likes, etc.

    I would like to say this, at least in my opinion in 4.5 we're starting to see some good stuff coming out. Notably, skill changes, regrade changes, crafting changes. That said, XL still hasn't straightened up. They continually only interact with their Korea player base as a way to determine what should be done. Yet this game is a global game and with the cultural differences around the world it doesn't make sense to only interact with this just one region. Whats more is you'd think by now XL would have figured out that the Korean players either aren't providing the right feedback or they aren't listening to them. Not only has their region suffered, but NA/EU regions are suffering similarly.

    We made jokes in discord but it appears XL is just viewing this game as a cash cow because it works initially and dies down pretty quickly, therefore the only way they can continue to milk this cow is to introduce it to new regions and get as much cash out of them as they can. So what's next? Archeage India? Archeage Afghanistan? Archeage North Korea? I mean seriously, they need to wise up over there.

  4. #4
    Senior Member SparxIsGrounded's Avatar
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    Hello Qembek,

    Same as Aired, while we don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, I too agree with a lot of your points. While I don't have anything worthwhile to add it seems both you and Aired have covered the points I'd bring up anyways, about the activity levels of creators, the general social media presence etc. Good post o/
    Sparxu
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  5. #5
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    I'm honestly in agreement with Qembek, I'm a fellow Trion creator - JustSteveThings, I know that we as Trion creators aren't direct representative of Trion Worlds, I do feel we get stone walled when we try to communicate with Trion staff. There are many questions that we've got to answer for our viewers as trion creators which don't have official answers. I've tried to contact trion staff directly only to be sent to the forums. I know i'm not active on the forums, i told myself i would be once i'd have my forum name changed. Which is a pending thread since 12-16-2017 with no reply's which has honestly discouraged me even trying. The questions that i need answers for i just don't ask, not every thread gets viewed and i don't want to go out of my way to be ignored. Which is why i wanted a direct conversation so i'm able to ask questions. Here are some Key questions as a streamer i'm asked.

    What your opinion on Private servers? - Which i've answered it's not something i'm interested in i'd rather supper the official game. Without direction to if it's okay or not, i'm not going to try discourage viewers to not do it.

    Do you know what wrong with (Insert current bug list from that patch here) - Which by the way since you never give an official answer on i end up having to read 10-20 post of the same problem to find one that has an Trion employee reply with a generic answer, just so i can offer it to them as a place to add a comment to. If you took an official stand on bugs and have a list of known bugs so players don't feel they're been robbed when something happens to them, make the bugs known and when they'll be fixed then people wouldn't create 100-200 of the same post which you've then got to filter through.

    Whens the next codes coming out, what will they be - Here are two questions i get often but it's been touched by Qem a little, my problem as a streamer is i get the same viewers often with new viewers jumping in for giveaways, but when you've given away so many of the same code it borderline impossible to give them away. it almost feels like your begging for people to take them. Which is questionable, I'm not trying to come across as ungrateful in fact we used to get more codes when i 1st started as a creator and they've slowly been reduced because instead of getting 20 codes one month you'll give me 22 over 2 months making them more wanted right? wrong. As qem pointed out there is too many creators who've quit making the content that just throw them at the players they used to play with or just in public places. I've seen people making steam posts for Archeage saying heres this months codes grab them whilst you can then people commenting confirming which ones they took. which in itself breaks the rules of the Trion creator program - "Don’t sell, trade, or directly share giveaway codes. Giveaway codes must be given away fairly and selling codes will get you removed from the Creator Program". When it comes to problems like this i feel the best options you've got are to ask your active creators whats a good solution on how to fix the lack of want for the codes, i'm sure we'll all answer differently. Here is my take on it. - You give out the same 6 types of codes (which beats 3 months + in a row of the same type of code) and give them to use on a rotation, Snails month 1 Costume(a) month 2 Dolphins month 3 Gliders month 4 Costume(b) month 5 Then repeat because by month 6 rolls round (on a fresh especially) no on has snails because they've quit or a new batch of player have rejoined. You could cycle this pattern and add the seasonal codes in on the respected months.

    I feel as an EU streamer, i'm at a little bit of a disadvantage because though the Trion Streams host streamers, i'd have to be up at 11pm. Some days in the past especially early fresh start, I was steaming 12-14 hours a day and i'm not large on social media but I've been an active EU streamer since day 1 i've been a trion creator for around a year now and i don't believe I've been recognized once by Trion. The 1st time i'd spoken to someone was a stream just recently when 4.0 hits and Quill came in and talked about lore with us and it was an amazing experience, it's only been since recently i've not played much and it's because Transferred opened and killed my server, i've transferred myself and i dont really want to give away to who i am, Start again or really have to get to know loads more people though the raids are larger and the PvP is higher content i'm limited since stream sniping is a massive problem even with a delay and I've transferred with some people who don't want people to know who they are. I'm now in a place where i love the game so much but it's hard for me to play and stream it. Myself like other players are in a limbo waiting for the fresh start.

    Here is my problem with fresh start - Though i am personally hyped for it, i feel like it's presents is what killed the EU fresh last year so quickly. Chats about how it was already in the works started month 4-6 of prophecy and loads of players just quit because they'll wait to freshI felt that most just up and left because "ohh the next fresh will be out soon whats the point". I feel that next year Trion would be better off saying that they've not thought about fresh start untill the server a year + old and that'll keep the players playing even if they've already prepared for it. I know that fresh starts bring an influx of players but you should be trying to keep servers alive not keep pushing fresh starts. The state of prophecy is so bad i don't believe it will be to long before you announce a merge.

    I feel like everyone has there views on Archeage and creators are here to help just as much. I'm with Qembek 100% when he offers help and i'm here to help. I love the game and want it to grow, it's the 1st mmo i've enjoyed in my life and fundamentally has the best structure as an MMO and could easily be the best game Trion advertises, i think it just needs some TLC

  6. #6
    Senior Member Kurita's Avatar
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    Hello, first, i am from Germany, and i hope my English is god enough for such a post :-)

    my personal opinion is also, that there are to few employees at Trion for such a great idea of the Trion Creator Program. There must be more, but more people cost more money.
    I think Trion is not such a big company as others are in Gaming Industries. They have costs, and if you see their portfolio of games, you see only real three self produced titles.
    RIFT, ATLAS REACTOR and TROVE. The other three titles are only publishing where two of them are korean, and one is a nearly dead title because the TV show from SYFY does not exisist anymore. I had discussions with Trion at Gamescom and other channels about advertisements. And there is also a cost-benefit analysis. Print Media are static. You do not know if new player come into game. Also store advertisement, you need a boxed product ( like a CD Box ) which customers could by if they saw a store advertisement. So the only way is to share advertisement on the social medias for Trion. But there we have an other big problem.

    Which is good advertisement, and which is bad advertisement? Who could decide of the quality?
    We all know, that there are many trolls outside, who made a bad advertisement, coz they blame Trion at every point they can. They said how bad Archeage is. A potential new player look into several sites, and if he see more "bad" news about the product, he will not playing this game.
    We also know, that the releationship between XLGames and Trion is a very special one. Those of us, who could login on Korea and see the "original" Version and compare it with ours, see how difficult it is. We know that Trion has no control of most parts of the game. But we also know that Trion made bad decisioins. But this our knowledge.
    Our part here is, to show that this game is a great game which includes all difficulties. And this include all parts of "content".. from videos up to forums in other languages!

    And at this point Trion have to act with us. Not only to send us codes. No we need more "help" for helping them.

    Lets take a look at an other region...
    Russia.. there they have more than one community manager for Archeage, and a kind of moderator team out of the community ( what could be a cool thing, but it also could be dangerous ). But the biggest thing is: they post some links of videos or other stuff on their website into the news section. sometimes every sunday! They use also discord officially, and use a russian version of facebook.

    Korea.. they have special forums for graphics, stories, etc.. and if they like something, they show it at their homepage too, so everybody could see it directly! They use facebook, and some korean special communication tools.


    There is maybe a big chance to get more "Trion Creators Stuff" shown! Put them into the Glyph section of each game and on the news section of the game. Once a week.
    There are many streamers, youtubers and other creators out there, and you probably do not know them. The other player don't know them! Some of them a really good ones, but who knows it? Only via mouth-to-mouth propaganda? give them a real platform over YOUR Platform ( Glyph ). This would be a win-win situation. The creators are happy because they could get honor, and you could get possible more player.

    Let them show, that Archeage is not that bad game which is shown by trolls out there. Let them explain, that some things are difficult, but its also make fun.. and let not the trolls win!

    My part in the creators program is a "german fan forum"... when i get codes, i made a little quiz inside the forum, and the users like it. :-)

    Greetings to all Creators
    Kurita
    Kurita

    Member of the "White Knight Foundation" :-)
    EU - Haranya / KR - Haranya / RU - Haranya :-)

  7. #7
    Senior Member jahlon's Avatar
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    Qembek has hit the nail right on the head.

    If there was something more to add Id add it, bit quite literally summed this up perfectly.

  8. #8
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    Thanks everyone for expressing your opinions, words of sympathy, extra feedback and great ideas! I know that Muzzy is, or was, at PAX South, let's wait few days for his return and maybe we can recieve some information on TRION's point of view on this matter.
    IGN: Qembek, Qmk, Solmyr
    My channel (100+ ArcheAge videos, guides and tips): YouTube
    Casually streaming: Twitch

  9. #9
    Great thread and very valid points. Support from Trion has been lacking for content creators but as anyone who has played Archeage this is the least of trion worlds problems IMO. The core game needs fixing (bugs, events broken, drop rates horrible, gear gap, etc).

    Helping creators is great but when the game is so poorly designed it doesn't help our case to promote a game that is so broken and punishing to new/existing non paying players
    You want to work smarter not harder in AA. Make your money work for you. INVESTMENT tips all day in my channel follow me!

    Link to my youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp-...OVObusemDVEXoA Everything you need to know about archeage. Guides on leveling, housing, rare items, how to make lots of money etc. Daily updates and features

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by qembek View Post
    Thanks everyone for expressing your opinions, words of sympathy, extra feedback and great ideas! I know that Muzzy is, or was, at PAX South, let's wait few days for his return and maybe we can recieve some information on TRION's point of view on this matter.
    Muzzy is not the answer to anything, he is more of a hype man than anything from my past pax experiences. Celestrata has done a very good job in still communicating while becoming a producer and fighting for changes it appears over the last year, we need more people like her in the company. I think it always comes down to them being dramatically understaffed. Mobi was given a job to manage thousands of creators from all their different games and there is no way that he can properly manage all the games at once and give each game the attention they deserver. Archeage is such a massive game that requires way more support than any other games that trion worlds has under their belt and that fact that they didn't make this game (need to share revenue and don't have access to the code) is a massive problem. IMO If archeage is not bringing in enough money (cause it all comes down to money) to justify the added support for the game that it needs they will never make those calls and hire new people that are dedicated to this game.
    You want to work smarter not harder in AA. Make your money work for you. INVESTMENT tips all day in my channel follow me!

    Link to my youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp-...OVObusemDVEXoA Everything you need to know about archeage. Guides on leveling, housing, rare items, how to make lots of money etc. Daily updates and features

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