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Thread: Feedback: trade System as a whole

  1. #21
    Another possible solution is to do away with certified / T3 packs altogether and allow players to either deliver T2 packs to trade post for gold or go to cross continent cargo exchanger for charcoal. Maybe one day I might see a Nuian in Perinor again!!!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madmonty View Post
    Another possible solution is to do away with certified / T3 packs altogether and allow players to either deliver T2 packs to trade post for gold or go to cross continent cargo exchanger for charcoal. Maybe one day I might see a Nuian in Perinor again!!!
    People would just shuttle cargo to their alts.

    For those who disagree that the family quest is the problem. The ONLY reason to buy cargo to ever buy cargo at or near its highest purchase price is because of the family quest. Currently in NA charcoal is trending way down and is below 3.5g. At 3.44g each (the current AH price) and getting only 20 charcoal at the safe zone trader you are making less than 10 silver per labor, but still make 52 silver per labor for the family quest. This means normal and gilda packs from any safe zone are FAR FAR FAR better than running cargo to safe zones for charcoal.

    I would say at that point you should be leaving the cargo in the tower which further reduces it's price and in turn will even out the but the problem is that there is still zero reason to ever leave any cargo at the trade post because the family quest both enables storage and ensures massive profits per labor. Just make more alts and you can have as much charcoal as you need, they don't even need labor just get them to level 30 and log in every day for 20 charcoal each.

    If you can't see how that cause increased cargo prices then I don't know how to explain it any simpler.

    Limastra is correct about larders being not the best from almost any zone too. For the east whats the best pack on a per labor basis at current AH prices (assuming you are crafting your own larders, and not including taxes on the land)?

    Arcum - Gilda Pack
    Falcorth - Fert Followed VERY closely by Gilda pack.
    Hasla - Fert Pack, Gilda Pack Second . . . Though Honey and Cheese are just 2 and 1 silver per labor less compared to those respectively
    Mahadevi - Normal, but really only to Yny since it's no good elsewhere.
    Perinoor - Normal, Fert, Gilda
    Rokhala - Gilda, Fert . . . Though Honey and Cheese are pretty close at just 1 s/l less
    Rookborne - Gilda, Fert
    Silent Forest - Gilda, Fert
    Solis - Fert, Normal
    Sunbite - Fert, Gilda, Normal
    Tigerspine - Fert, Normal
    Villanelle - Fert, Normal/Gilda basically tied second
    Windscour - Gilda, Fert
    Yny - Fert, Gilda

    In ZERO of the zones on the east are larders best on a per labor basis. The only time they are better is when turn in values are depressed for the other pack runs.

    Gilda was assumed to be 1.25g for this list. The actual price is more like 1g or less if you look at most design costs, which makes gilda packs even more worth it if you lower the gilda value estimate.

  3. #23
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    Honestly I have adapted to the new system (aside from being able to find certified in west for fam pack). However, I dearly miss the original trade system and the flexibility it gave us as to where we could turn in packs. This new system is much more restrictive and makes the turn in points much more crowded.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Honestly I have adapted to the new system (aside from being able to find certified in west for fam pack). However, I dearly miss the original trade system and the flexibility it gave us as to where we could turn in packs. This new system is much more restrictive and makes the turn in points much more crowded.
    Did you ever really use the other points? I know on the east the vast majority of runs didn't even make sense to do and for land runs there are more available now than there were before. As for ocean runs through the histroy of the game it was basically 'do freedich or you are losing money' and going to freedich for anyone but the one group that owned the server which was a major contributor to the whole 'rich get richer' problems the game has. There were 4 turns ins with only one really making sense (except for Rok/Karkassee aged which could go to any of the mainland ports, so 3 each in that case) and now there are 5 with 5 making sense.

    As for cargo you can take it to more places than before for ocean runs. In 3.0 there were literally only 2 packs to run that made good charcoal values and those packs reduced the profits of everything else too obscurity because they were so above and beyond everything else it depressed the other packs value so they weren't worth doing.

    People like the gilda traders but all of the mainland turn ins only gave 2-3 gilda per pack and at 4g per gilda that wasn't worth doing. You could just run them for gold and make enough to buy the design you wanted anyway. Only Freedich made sense, so if you weren't one of the strong that owned freedich or camped it then you pretty much didn't get to participate.

    Now the system is spread out decently evenly. Safe zone runs can easily make 10-15 silver per labor for normal/gilda packs or fert/fellowship packs (though most aged packs in safe runs make little sense). Mainland Cargo to the opposing mainlands makes about 14 silver per labor if you buy the last in stock pack and turn in under the 30 minute profit window. Safe zone cargo for charcoal also makes about 12 silver per labor (currently, but charcoal prices are dropping rapidly in NA). Each of these fluctuate depending on turn in and input values so sometimes some are better than others and it's all based on user interactions.

    PVP zone packs mostly make up in the 20-ish silver per labor range, including charcoal runs which sit at about 21-ish. The pack that is best all depends on what other people are doing at the time just like the others.

    So since at any moment you can do almost any of these and get similar returns and you can't just look at a spreadsheet and be spoon fed exactly the one pack that makes sense in every situation the result is everyone hates it and complains they aren't being spoon fed.

  5. #25
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    In the old system i had the option of running Ahnimar or Airain packs to Gweonid or Solzreed for near identical profit. I could run packs from Solis to Falcorth, load up at Falcorth and return to Solis, with no need to use a teleport. If i were feeling lazy i could take my Lillyut packs to Marianople or (even lazier) run them to Dewstone. I really miss taking packs to Sanddeep by jumping my timber off the cliff in Halcyona and driving to the gold trader. The point is there were many more options.

    The old oversea trade system allowed for quick vague oversea runs where you could load up packs where there were no alt spies to take to the other continent for charcoal. Now you have a load of alts sitting at the trade outlets waiting for every cargo that comes over and spying on who is leaving with them. Old system made charcoal easy and cheap, thereby making crafting easier and cheaper.

    There are a few advantages in the new system being more streamlined, but the original system still had more options and more diversity, and in my opinion, was more suited to the sandbox elements of the game.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    In the old system i had the option of running Ahnimar or Airain packs to Gweonid or Solzreed for near identical profit. I could run packs from Solis to Falcorth, load up at Falcorth and return to Solis, with no need to use a teleport. If i were feeling lazy i could take my Lillyut packs to Marianople or (even lazier) run them to Dewstone. I really miss taking packs to Sanddeep by jumping my timber off the cliff in Halcyona and driving to the gold trader. The point is there were many more options.

    The old oversea trade system allowed for quick vague oversea runs where you could load up packs where there were no alt spies to take to the other continent for charcoal. Now you have a load of alts sitting at the trade outlets waiting for every cargo that comes over and spying on who is leaving with them. Old system made charcoal easy and cheap, thereby making crafting easier and cheaper.

    There are a few advantages in the new system being more streamlined, but the original system still had more options and more diversity, and in my opinion, was more suited to the sandbox elements of the game.
    In 3.0 Falcorth to solis made 8 or less silver per labor, and more like 5 for the two specialty bench crafted packs. It was a terrible run. I mostly have east trade routes because I only really trade east, but now Falcorth turns in to both villa and Solis for the same price and makes 13 silver per labor for the gilda pack (assuming 1.25g per gilda), a hair over 10 on the normal pack, and 13.5 for the fert pack. This kind of massive buff was done to almost every zone making nearly every run viable.

    In 3.0 for safe zone runs that were over 10 silver per labor were basically nothing. So this is packs taht start in safe zones and stay in safe zones.

    3.0:
    Arcum: None
    Falcorth: None
    Mahadevi: None
    Tigerspine: None
    Silent Forest: 2
    Solis: None
    Sunbite: 2

    Current:
    Arcum: 6
    Falcorth: 6
    Mahadevi: None (Like I posted in the last chart, just yule logs to Yny pretty much)
    Tigerspine: 4
    Silent Forest: 4
    Solis: 2
    Sunbite: 8

    So that's only the safe zones. Decently profitable safe runs went from 4 to 30. The ones that are actually profitable are not static anymore because it relies on what others are running.

    Like right now I happened to have a look at Solzreed on Kraken and there are 128 cargo sitting in the tower waiting to go across the ocean. That means people can pick this up and take it to Villanelle or Solis for 33 silver per labor, Diamond Shores for 38, Ynystere for 36, or freedich for 37.

    The second someone who is strong enough to buy it does so then there will be different opportunities. Wherever they land will be cheaper to get charcoal (or, right now, family quest stockpile).

    This is vastly different from how it used to be where if you wanted charcoal you literally just ran Rokhala to Cinder or maybe you went to one of the other ports because cinder was tanked.

    I do realize that they each have different advantages... but a static system that you just pick the top pack from the spreadsheet vs a dynamic interlinked system that depends on user action to change definitely doesn't sound more 'sandboxy'.

    If only the family quest was gone so that it could work... but since there is never a reason to ever leave cargo in the towers to run for charcoal they just get drained instead of the packs getting better and better until they are worth running.

  7. #27
    I dare to copy in this thread my post which was ignored, probably due to bad English in expaining the idea.
    I believe that the discussion in the forum should lead us to some change. This may be XL change or TW change. If we ask for total rework of the system, this is definitely no go. We could propose small change that can be easy implemented and chances are this will be accepted by developers.

    So the change is very simple but improve lot of things discussed above in this thread:

    if T1 pack is turned in at trade outlet, and the outlet has zero such packs stored and has zero T3 cargo available, then bonus 1 charcoal added to the gold reward.

    Example.
    I bring TS Grape Jams - 4 packs by car, in Villanelle trade outpost. If there is T3 cargo available, I get my usual 14Gold per pack. If T3 cargo = 0, and if TS Grape Jam count = 0, I get 14 gold + 1 CC for my first turned pack. For the rest of packs I get just 14 gold, because TS Grape Jam count > 0.

    So every player will try to turn in packs that have 0 count at trade outlet.
    What will be fixed:
    1) Players get at least minimum CC reward for regular packs trading
    2) Reason to do nonprofitable runs, like larders for short distance (i. e. larders from Mahadevi)
    3) Reason to diversificate packs, to carry several different packs at a time
    4) Reason to craft T1 which were "killed" by introducing Gilda Stars into craft.
    5) Support for beginners which normally carry 1 trade pack - better chances to get bonus CC.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Snerdles View Post
    It makes it like an actual trade system.
    On separate stages (T1, T2 and T3) - yes.
    On the system as the whole - sorry, no, and this is the PROBLEM.

    Example. Right now all the world have deficit of charcoal. Actual trade system (real life market) would force to increase the production of T1 packs to increase total production of CC. Archeage trade system makes players to abandon T1 packs production and forces to stay at trade outpost and desperately hunt for rare overpriced T3 cargo.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Nenko View Post
    On separate stages (T1, T2 and T3) - yes.
    On the system as the whole - sorry, no, and this is the PROBLEM.

    Example. Right now all the world have deficit of charcoal. Actual trade system (real life market) would force to increase the production of T1 packs to increase total production of CC. Archeage trade system makes players to abandon T1 packs production and forces to stay at trade outpost and desperately hunt for rare overpriced T3 cargo.
    If there is a charcoal deficit, why are charcoal prices dropping, and have been for a few weeks?

    Charcoal would be VASTLY cheaper if it weren't for the family quest existing because average purchase price for cargo would be significantly lower.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Nenko View Post
    I dare to copy in this thread my post which was ignored, probably due to bad English in expaining the idea.
    I believe that the discussion in the forum should lead us to some change. This may be XL change or TW change. If we ask for total rework of the system, this is definitely no go. We could propose small change that can be easy implemented and chances are this will be accepted by developers.

    So the change is very simple but improve lot of things discussed above in this thread:

    if T1 pack is turned in at trade outlet, and the outlet has zero such packs stored and has zero T3 cargo available, then bonus 1 charcoal added to the gold reward.

    Example.
    I bring TS Grape Jams - 4 packs by car, in Villanelle trade outpost. If there is T3 cargo available, I get my usual 14Gold per pack. If T3 cargo = 0, and if TS Grape Jam count = 0, I get 14 gold + 1 CC for my first turned pack. For the rest of packs I get just 14 gold, because TS Grape Jam count > 0.

    So every player will try to turn in packs that have 0 count at trade outlet.
    What will be fixed:
    1) Players get at least minimum CC reward for regular packs trading
    2) Reason to do nonprofitable runs, like larders for short distance (i. e. larders from Mahadevi)
    3) Reason to diversificate packs, to carry several different packs at a time
    4) Reason to craft T1 which were "killed" by introducing Gilda Stars into craft.
    5) Support for beginners which normally carry 1 trade pack - better chances to get bonus CC.
    Alternatively, they could just change the family quest to be delivery of normal specialties and the entire charcoal/cargo problem is solved.

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