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Thread: Every Reason I Won't Run Plate as a Healer

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    Every Reason I Won't Run Plate as a Healer

    So today I was reading up 4.5 and discovered spirit will now be giving me magic defenses at a 1:1 rate from spirit. A substantial boost to be sure. And my initial reaction was "Well hot damn, that's a cool bonus, but it would be even cooler if I was wearing plate instead of cloth. A big boost like that does you a lot more good when it's to your weakest defensive stat." I then took a bit to consider going plate. After taking that moment, the clear answer was "hell no!" Here is every reason why:

    1. Cloth does give physical defense. Just not much. Plate gives no magical defense making it seriously difficult to compensate for that weakness.

    2. It takes a tier 4+ obsidian shield to counter magic damage. The option isn't even available in crafted shields and the boost to MDef is way smaller than the PDef boost of comparable shields. Meaning PDef shields compensate for a lack of PDef in cloth better than MDef shields compensate for a lack of MDef in plate.

    3. Spirit plate exists in 2 forms. Pre-endgame gear and Erenor. For anything in-between, it doesn't exist.

    4. Cloth bonuses are metal. Any full set cloth bonus decreases casting delay. High grade ones increase critical RATE. A large portion of your survivability as a healer comes from your ability to heal yourself through enemy damage and in that regard critical rate is surpassed only by healing power and received healing.

    5. Mages are better than melee. Sure min-maxed darkrunners are annoying but they are worse than daggerspells in 1v1s and worse than revenants in major group fights. They are really kind of a cheese class and I'm more concerned about countering top tier classes than cheese classes when it comes to long term gearing.

    So those are the reasons I'll be sticking cloth despite my newfound bonus to MDef. This is not a judgement as to whether or not healers SHOULD be able to effectively run plate. Simply my reasons why I will not. Whether that is something Trion and XL intended or want to change I'll leave up to them.
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    Good points. A friend was telling me how awesome some plate healers was in some 4.5 pvp video. Mind you, he's telling me this after I'm just 300ish lord coins away from having mats for full erenor cloth...

    When I looked into it I felt much the same as you do. Also it would force me into a twintail cloak which would be another big amount of time.

    I'm sticking with cloth.

    You might be able to do a mixed plate/cloth suit and just sacrifice the 7 piece buff but that's pretty unorthodox. I know one guy who has done it successfully because he was in leather with Levi helm.

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    Senior Member jahlon's Avatar
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    Good Call

    Also considering that the Raid Wide 500 Magic Defense from Vitalism seems to be gone in 4.5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollolol View Post
    Good points. A friend was telling me how awesome some plate healers was in some 4.5 pvp video. Mind you, he's telling me this after I'm just 300ish lord coins away from having mats for full erenor cloth...

    When I looked into it I felt much the same as you do. Also it would force me into a twintail cloak which would be another big amount of time.

    I'm sticking with cloth.

    You might be able to do a mixed plate/cloth suit and just sacrifice the 7 piece buff but that's pretty unorthodox. I know one guy who has done it successfully because he was in leather with Levi helm.
    Yeah. The high point of plate healers is they absolutely shut down dark runners. With the number of people in this game who run some form of melee class that's tempting. And even with the nerfs coming to melee in 4.5 there will be archery buffs, and plate is a hard counter to archers as well. The idea of watching a DR with better gear than me jump on me and then healing through their damage has a lot of appeal. But then who will be better geared than me if I were to have the full Erenor I would need?

    An equivalent geared DR is fairly easy to beat on a shield healer though most of the time. Even now mages present a greater threat if they are played well. My saving grace against them in group combat is the fact I have full cloth. Doesn't seem worth it to trade off that survivability against mages just to counter a class that already has to be overgeared to beat me.
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    Senior Member jahlon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaemik View Post
    Yeah. The high point of plate healers is they absolutely shut down dark runners. With the number of people in this game who run some form of melee class that's tempting. And even with the nerfs coming to melee in 4.5 there will be archery buffs, and plate is a hard counter to archers as well. The idea of watching a DR with better gear than me jump on me and then healing through their damage has a lot of appeal. But then who will be better geared than me if I were to have the full Erenor I would need?

    An equivalent geared DR is fairly easy to beat on a shield healer though most of the time. Even now mages present a greater threat if they are played well. My saving grace against them in group combat is the fact I have full cloth. Doesn't seem worth it to trade off that survivability against mages just to counter a class that already has to be overgeared to beat me.
    There is no melee "nerf" coming in 4.5.

    There is a melee correction, swap some stuff around, but pound for pound they will do more Crit Based Damage then they do now

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    I'd say the greatest strength of melee classes right now comes from a combination of heavy damage combined with enough CC to keep you down until you're dead in many cases. The 50% damage reduction alone is a major nerf to burst DPS classes, combine with the nerf/removal of some of their major CCs I'm personally looking forward to fighting post 4.5 DRs and blighters. If they can't 100-0 me before I can get up and snap off some heals, generally they aren't going to win.
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    "To hell with honor. Win!" - Harbingers of Freedom Motto
    Claiming you're a hardcore PvPer because you have good gear in a no-loot drop game is like claiming you have high spice tolerance because you eat Taco Bell fire sauce.

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    Senior Member MagicDito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaemik View Post
    So today I was reading up 4.5 and discovered spirit will now be giving me magic defenses at a 1:1 rate from spirit.
    That... is already the case now.. it has been the case ever since I remember... So I don't rly see how thats a "big change" to you... I'm full plate, and I even migrated my spirit away because its a minor bonus and doesn't matter at all..

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaemik View Post
    the boost to MDef is way smaller than the PDef boost of comparable shields
    Flat Out Wrong.. A legendary T6 Magic Shield is EXACTLY the same Mdef as a legendary T6 Physical Shield is Pdef.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaemik View Post
    Mages are better than melee
    Now that just hurts me. There is no "this is better than that". There are melees who are stronger than mages, there are mages who are stronger than melees. And it also depends on the playstyle and skill of the players. As said, I run full plate, and I beat most mages easily.
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    Ah I guess it's not a change just a bonus I never noticed before as a full cloth wearer. It's not the type of bonus that I would figure anyone would take spirit for but when you are already heavily invested into spirit for the healing power with passives that increase it quite a bit further, it does get up to a notable amount. I'm barely above 5k gear and have nearly 1000 spirit so that's a decent chunk of MDef.

    I couldn't find any posted on the AH to compare but at least in AA Database the MDef offered by Voidspell pales in comparison to the PDef offered by Seer's Anticipation. I've known AA DB to make errors before but using those pages:

    Mythic Seers Anticipation
    (Tier 7 PDef Shield)
    Def: 3819
    Stamina: 113
    Bonus: 845 Defense

    TOTAL: 4664 Def & 113 Sta

    Mythic Voidspell
    (Tier 7 MDef Shield)
    Stamina: 113
    Bonus: 845 MDef
    Heals .5 HP per stacked mettle if crit by a magic attack

    TOTAL: 845 MDef, 113 Sta, & heals .5 HP per stacked mettle if crit by a magic attack

    So according to that at least, the obsidian PDef shield has 5.52 times the PDef the MDef shield of equivalent tier and grade does... but the MDef shield occasionally eats your mettle for passive heals if you are running the defense tree.

    I really do feel mages are better than melee characters. Of course "this is better than that" is very circumstantial but mages are better in more circumstances. There is a reason "melee ball" isn't the top meta of the top guilds.
    Harbingers of Freedom - Dwarf - Vengeance
    Shield Healer (Hierophant)

    "To hell with honor. Win!" - Harbingers of Freedom Motto
    Claiming you're a hardcore PvPer because you have good gear in a no-loot drop game is like claiming you have high spice tolerance because you eat Taco Bell fire sauce.

  9. #9
    Senior Member MagicDito's Avatar
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    Ah yeah, AADB seems to have failed there quite a bit, prolly when the mdef got moved from being 100% "Bonus Effect" to being an actual stat... I can tell you its a fact that they are 100% equal when it comes to def-values (I own a legendary one), but you could just have checked ingame-encyclopedia :P or check on http://archeagecalculator.com/ ^^


    https://picload.org/view/daopgacl/unbenannt.png.html
    Took that work off you :P Embedding looks strange soo.. just direct link.. sorrey ^^

    And yeah, "Mageball" works better than Melee Ball, of course, Thats CC. (Most) melees are mainly focused on DPS, while lots of the CC is in the Magic Trees (Witchcraft and Occ = CC for DAYS). But as I said before: Playstyle, skill, and maybe a good portion of luck :P
    "Great White" Grin
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    Yes, we are recruiting c:
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    Yes, we made 2nd Place in MM with only 3 ppl against 3 factions at 4.4k GS AVG


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