+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: Alts and the economy

  1. #21
    Senior Member Tenki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Gambledeep
    Posts
    701
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollolol View Post
    If alt swarms are viewed as a problem by the devs they need to address that by designing things to not reward idle activity.
    ^ T h i s ^

    I said it in a bit of a subtle way>
    But anyway, it's strange, I don't usually see issues with alts in Cinderstone or Ynystere... Actually I tend to see mains there more often and it's way more fun and profitable :/
    but this is exactly it - Cinder/Yny/Golden Ruins etc; the danger runs are profitable and don't reward idle activity so you'll rarely see cargo-sniping or hauler train with alts there. The more activity that goes on with those areas, the more fun there is to the game as well and the better the profit for both you and your enemies haha.

  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    913
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukealex View Post
    IMO market price is market price. How many of those tax certs get sold to alts? How would that affect demand? I realize that's extremely simplified for a response, but I'm going to try not to be super wordy here. I'm not sure if you guys have noticed or not, but every patch it seems like vocation/prestige/honor gain gets reduced or the items you buy with them go up in price or both. If everyone running alts wants to say that there's a big conspiracy and XL/Trion is trying to force people to alt more and more and those of us who say XL/Trion are just reacting to the people who get 800k Honor over the course of a weekend are crazy...I mean, I guess at the end of the day, you do you....
    There is no way to tell how many go to alts. Though, you can say for sure that alts make more than they consume, since it takes 36 labor to make a tax cert there is no point to a main ever making tax certs until they are well over 3g. If you go by credits tax certs natural price in credits by APEX is more like 9-10g depending on your region. Alts that just need to pay for patron to extend their accounts don't need to worry about labor efficiency they can just pump out 2400 tax certs per 2 APEX and sell them for 0.4g each to make 960g... then they only need to make up something like 1500-1600g in 30 days, which you can easily do selling vocation, honor, loyalty, and doing some dailies. This is also why vocation, honor, and loyalty items are super cheap.

    So think about this the other way. Does increasing the price of honor items help or hinder alts? No, they don't care. Does it help or hinder single players? Absolutely, the more expensive and slower progress is, the more alts are valuable.

    So who do these changes really help?
    Epic Erenor Scepter - 856 Magic Att, 733 gimped DPS.
    Epic Erenor Katana - 815.3 DPS.
    Epic Erenor Bow - 693 DPS... worse than the gimped weapon even though it's a primary weapon.
    "Balance" . . . This doesn't even take in to account the 978.4 epic erenor nodachi, or 978 mAtt staff.

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    913
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukealex View Post
    And if you want to bring up changing IPs, like at a certain point it's going to get obvious. Every day ten people in other countries on the other side of the globe log in 5 minutes after this one guy, craft stuff for 5 minutes, log out, then at the end of the week trade the other guy all the gold they made that week except for what they need to buy 2 APEX each month. And never do anything else, or actually play the game. Every single week. Nope, they're not my alts. Okay, buddy. Sure.
    They don't even enforce this for people farming their own alts in arena. Do you really think they are going to have a forensics team looking for patterns like that?

    P.S. Never use the crafting commision board unless you are an alt doing your own commission... funny how that works.
    Epic Erenor Scepter - 856 Magic Att, 733 gimped DPS.
    Epic Erenor Katana - 815.3 DPS.
    Epic Erenor Bow - 693 DPS... worse than the gimped weapon even though it's a primary weapon.
    "Balance" . . . This doesn't even take in to account the 978.4 epic erenor nodachi, or 978 mAtt staff.

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    583
    And once again not a single one of the anti-alt commenters can actually address the fact that without alts there would not be sufficient real players to actually produce the materials we need or run the packs we need. Without even getting into the negative effects of a further fall in revenue and all the players who would leave the game.

    Let's face it, nobody from outside is going to be lured into playing this game via 'Archeage, now with no alts!'. Archeage's outside reputation is as a P2W grindfest; making it more grindy and harder to make money without swiping is not going to solve that problem or attract more players. The game is already haemorrhaging non-P2W non-free-farming players, no point in hastening its demise.

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    520
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollolol View Post
    Some would argue that quoting someone is the opposite of ignoring them.

    Re: the topic.

    I'm kinda bored with the alts topic but there are some that post it regularly. I don't see how they could actively police alts because some alts are more active than a lot of people's mains. If alt swarms are viewed as a problem by the devs they need to address that by designing things to not reward idle activity.

    I don't think this is anywhere close to the biggest problem the game faces at this time.
    I honestly don't have an issue with multiple characters. That may not be what you're discussing though. I define alts as characters solely created to bypass game systems/limitations - avoid chat bans, read other nations chat, make jail time meaningless...not to mention all the ways alts can be used to intentionally grief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snerdles View Post
    There is no way to tell how many go to alts. Though, you can say for sure that alts make more than they consume, since it takes 36 labor to make a tax cert there is no point to a main ever making tax certs until they are well over 3g. If you go by credits tax certs natural price in credits by APEX is more like 9-10g depending on your region. Alts that just need to pay for patron to extend their accounts don't need to worry about labor efficiency they can just pump out 2400 tax certs per 2 APEX and sell them for 0.4g each to make 960g... then they only need to make up something like 1500-1600g in 30 days, which you can easily do selling vocation, honor, loyalty, and doing some dailies. This is also why vocation, honor, and loyalty items are super cheap.

    So think about this the other way. Does increasing the price of honor items help or hinder alts? No, they don't care. Does it help or hinder single players? Absolutely, the more expensive and slower progress is, the more alts are valuable.

    So who do these changes really help?
    Right. But without all the alts eating however many APEX each month, what happens to APEX prices? Frankly, as well, tax certs are really your only decent example here in the entire game. Everything else alts do basically just kills the profit of activities that new players are by design basically intended to do.

    If alts were reduced/removed, Trion/XL could finally stop continually increasing the price of honor items every patch and reduce them back to the reasonable numbers that they used to be. Again, if you guys are all fine with the fact that by next year honor items will cost at least 2x as much as they do now and you'll have to create twice as many alts and there's actually 0 new players and about 20 mains per server each with your huge super valuable alt armies, you all feel free to do you.

    It's a grinding game. It's designed to cap progression. It does this by limits - each account has a cap for daily vocation/honor/loyalty/labor/etc. gain. Everyone with alts wants to insist that after alts started becoming more common prices got higher to keep that progression capped, and it was just a coincidence. Then when prices got higher, everyone created even more alts, and by some insane coincidence because now it's happened twice in a row, prices of items went up again and the amount each account could get per day decreased. Or is it evil XL making us grind more because KR has as many alts as NA/EU does and there's nothing us poor players can do about it besides create more alts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snerdles View Post
    They don't even enforce this for people farming their own alts in arena. Do you really think they are going to have a forensics team looking for patterns like that?

    P.S. Never use the crafting commision board unless you are an alt doing your own commission... funny how that works.
    I'm pretty sure my opinion on arenas is in agreement with most people that play this game - abuse should be punished. The problem is, what constitutes normal alt use and what isn't is so...vague. And that's solely a Trion problem. Like...can I farm your alts for honor? What if I farm yours while you farm mine? Can I farm someone else's alt for honor if I don't know them? What if I did know the person, but I didn't know the alt I farmed was someone I know's alt? What if I just wanted to see if queue worked so I clicked in with all my alts, and oops. Then I was gonna try to play with them all but I have bad internet so after they all stood on the wheel all but my main got super laggy and I couldn't. Then later on I was wondering if queue somehow magically broke an hour later for no reason, so I tried it again, and then the same thing happened.

    No offense, but no alts kind of simplifies all these gray areas with alts. And as I mentioned, Trion removes RMT gold and stuff from exploits/abuse. It kind of simplifies that too - everything Trion sees flagged for looking like RMT gold can just be removed, Trion doesn't have to go digging around and try to find out if it's an alt transfer or RMT before taking any action.

    You're right about the crafting board. I'm just saying the system exists. It's just, like most things XL implements, at best half-useful and in need of improvement but actually ahs potential if it got fixed up/finished as a concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graid View Post
    And once again not a single one of the anti-alt commenters can actually address the fact that without alts there would not be sufficient real players to actually produce the materials we need or run the packs we need. Without even getting into the negative effects of a further fall in revenue and all the players who would leave the game.

    Let's face it, nobody from outside is going to be lured into playing this game via 'Archeage, now with no alts!'. Archeage's outside reputation is as a P2W grindfest; making it more grindy and harder to make money without swiping is not going to solve that problem or attract more players. The game is already haemorrhaging non-P2W non-free-farming players, no point in hastening its demise.
    Most people advocating for alts to be removed (at least those that have actually put some thought into it) are also saying at the same time either labor should be completely removed or labor generation should go up to like 15 or 20 instead of 10 for patron and maybe some stuff's labor costs should be reduced at the same time. Like commerce which seems to have labor requirements climbing higher every patch, since you brought up commerce.... Oh, while we're at it, remove that stupid labor sink for synthesis. And the gold sink too.

    You're right though. At this stage everyone who enjoyed playing a game that didn't require a dozen alts has essentially already quit, leaving those with all the alts the only ones left aside from the small minority of whales. As far as that goes, I don't even get it. Unless Trion removes everything at the same time, if alts were removed tomorrow, do you guys realize how long it would take a single account to catch up to where you are now? Even how much money it would take for a new whale player to catch up? Honestly you'd be way better off than you are now.

    Nobody from outside is going to be lured in by "Archeage, only 24 alts minimum required now!" either. As for how grindy the game is, we're the players. We have the ability to do something other than sit there and take it, and create another 20 alts while we're at it because it's the only thing we can do about a grindy change....

  6. #26
    This game could be more fun without alting , sigh look how everyone is convinced it's the right way to play the game , this just like using cheat codes on your console games and after a while you realize you are not having much fun .

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    913
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukealex View Post
    Right. But without all the alts eating however many APEX each month, what happens to APEX prices? Frankly, as well, tax certs are really your only decent example here in the entire game. Everything else alts do basically just kills the profit of activities that new players are by design basically intended to do.
    Not just tax certs, but every single mind-numbing thing in the game. All those processed goods that only go for 2-3 silver per labor above their inputs? All alts. All those larders that go for 3 silver per labor above their goods? All alts. Pretty much every easily crafted good in the game that is simple just to buy stuff on the AH, process it and relist it... alts do all of that so that players can spend their labor actually making decent money.

    It's difficult to say what would happen to APEX if no one had both cross region alts to farm for them and no alts to consume them. Would the price really go down much? If it did then people would not be inclined to buy them for progress because the gold wouldn't be worth the cash... there are way too many variables to really know what would happen.

    I guess the real question is how do you stop alts. Since it's impossible the whole discussion about it is rather moot. The choice is do you prefer to have all the power concentrated to the few who are willing to alt their way to riches or do you make it easier for everyone. Trion made their choice. The only other way to handle it would be to completely redesign the game so that there aren't arbitrary restrictions on each account to make alts not useful, but that's quite literally redesigning every single system so at that point you may as well just shut down ArcheAge and make a new game to ditch all the bad reputation the game has with it.
    Epic Erenor Scepter - 856 Magic Att, 733 gimped DPS.
    Epic Erenor Katana - 815.3 DPS.
    Epic Erenor Bow - 693 DPS... worse than the gimped weapon even though it's a primary weapon.
    "Balance" . . . This doesn't even take in to account the 978.4 epic erenor nodachi, or 978 mAtt staff.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts