View Poll Results: How you like a trade pack change ?

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  • No, i like spending my day doing trade runs, i have no life anyway

    4 36.36%
  • It is ok the way it is , i have my alt farm anyway

    2 18.18%
  • Yes , i want to have fun and not spend all day doing trade runs

    5 45.45%
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Thread: Trade run change, to maximise fun time

  1. #21
    Senior Member Godiva's Avatar
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    do the family quest packs
    do the Vyrawa packs
    do Auroria cargo

    they all cater for what you request. Good reward for little time...
    Nostalgia

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    I agree with this (and have been vocal in the past about it). However, there is a root cause as to WHY people feel the need to have gold/labor generating alts. To this symptom I place blame on Gear Score, and the unfair (and huge) advantage the higher tiers/grades give.

    If XL were to implement a system of diminishing returns for higher grade/tier gear, then the alt problem would be much less severe. I'm not saying that Epherium should be on par with Erenor, but a group of Epherium users SHOULD be able to take out a single Erenor user. The hardcore pvp'er would still strive to get the best gear (for advantage sake) even if it was just marginally better than previous tiers/grades. This would allow for newer and casual players to actually have an impact in pvp, and not just be fodder.

    As for the trade pack thing.... It was fine for years until prices were forced up by XL/TRION making regrade and gemming costs skyrocket, almost necessitating that people use an alt army just to 'Keep up with the Jones'. An increase in payout for a more expensive pack would just have alts doing them, and making prices for items rise even more with less profit for a casual player.
    IMO, it isn't a tier thing. Offhand, I can't think of anyone other than you that has ever complained about the tiers of gear - but maybe I'm wrong.

    The thing with tiers of gear, is that honestly progression jumps make complete sense; let me explain. There SHOULD be a large jump between how good Epherium and Delphinad is. Just add up the costs of each of them and see just how exponentially higher the costs of the Delphinad is. Then do it for Delphinad and Ayanad.

    Frankly, it's not that uncommon to see players still running around in Epic+ Delphinad stuff (typically it's jewelry, but sometimes you see some random armor pieces they haven't upgraded out of yet). This isn't so common any more, but you'd really see it with Obsidian. You didn't upgrade past T4/T5 unless you were Divine+ (or something similar, depends on when you asked people if you want to get technical, but the point is there). Why? Because of the cost/value of the mats and the exponential increase in cost. Worst case scenario, you disagree with me on the accuracy of those two statements and want to argue the point, riddle me this - why are so few people running Erenor? I mean, it's pretty easy to get Divine Ayanad, Erenor is guaranteed upgrade through synthesis, Erenor also has pretty good stats/set bonuses (from what I hear, after you get the stats rerolled) and tempering is crazy effective on top of that plus the raw stats being good.... Why is almost everyone sticking with Ayanad? At this point the top gearscores are pushing for full Legendary or full Mythic Ayanad armor...honestly, that's a lot more of a gamble than Erenor….

    TLDR diminishing returns on tiers of gear isn't really an issue.... I've given examples on how people try to be more efficient and use Epic+ Delphinad instead of Ayanad for one end of the spectrum, then on the other end you have all of the people choosing to go for Epic+ Ayanad instead of Erenor.

    And this is before the changes to set buffs...speculation has it that getting that good set buff will make up for lower tier gear even more than it currently does. - Also not to get into that the issue with Epherium players being unable to kill an Erenor player has very little to do with their gear tier...at least, not in any actual fight. But XL's upcoming changes should do some work toward improving that situation anyway...namely the hit for 1% of your attack or whatever, which means no more hitting 1s.

    Frankly, alts aren't going to go away until they either get made illegal to use or people actually cap out their gear and have nothing to progress further with and thus no need for alts (except maybe to hold decorated cottages and such to RP on for those into that when there's nothing else going on ingame and stuff). Neither change seems of any interest to XL/Trion, and you could argue that those two things appear to be the opposites of XL/Trion's goals. Ironically RU and KR and everywhere else has a bunch of players running around in like full Mythic Erenor and nowhere near as many alts...but...I don't know. Everyone says that both of those things can't be done though, so I guess that must be some weird alternate reality.

    Honestly, it's debatable whether trade packs got nerfed or prices were forced up in a chicken or egg, which came first sort of way, but either way...more grind. Same for alts - it's arguable whether changes are to discourage alt use, or if all of the "this change was to make the game more grindy because alts and progression" is just an elaborate cover for actually encouraging alt use.


    @OP, I'm confused how you think trade runs used to be awesome and now are not. Nothing has changed with trade runs? They're not as profitable per pack, but by no means is commerce in a bad position compared to other professions, and DEFINITELY not in a bad enough position to need to be improved that much.

    Yes, there's more gold sinks, and yes, prices have gone up, and yes, XL seems bent on running commerce into the ground. This is normal, XL seems to operate on a "if players do this, we need to make it harder" basis - honestly, it's surprising that it's taken XL this long to realize that commerce was the only profession left that they HADN'T ruined yet.

    Everyone here thinks something should be done. It's just most of us think that there's a better solution that the one you listed. In fact, we've come up with several suggestions that were pretty well received by everyone, without any response...so even if we all loved your idea, sadly, the odds are that nothing would actually happen still.

  3. #23
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    IMO, it isn't a tier thing. Offhand, I can't think of anyone other than you that has ever complained about the tiers of gear - but maybe I'm wrong.

    The thing with tiers of gear, is that honestly progression jumps make complete sense; let me explain. There SHOULD be a large jump between how good Epherium and Delphinad is. Just add up the costs of each of them and see just how exponentially higher the costs of the Delphinad is. Then do it for Delphinad and Ayanad.
    Item tiers are fine, it's the grade that's the problem. For example, legendary is 91% better than basic. That is unacceptable, especially when you consider that over half of that bonus is after celestial. Just 3 grades has more than half of the bonus of 9 total grades. If each grade only gave a 5% boost, that would be a lot more reasonable. But no, they jacked it up because they saw people would pay out the ♥♥♥ to be specialization snowflakes.

    Honestly, it's debatable whether trade packs got nerfed or prices were forced up in a chicken or egg, which came first sort of way, but either way...more grind. Same for alts - it's arguable whether changes are to discourage alt use, or if all of the "this change was to make the game more grindy because alts and progression" is just an elaborate cover for actually encouraging alt use.

    @OP, I'm confused how you think trade runs used to be awesome and now are not. Nothing has changed with trade runs? They're not as profitable per pack, but by no means is commerce in a bad position compared to other professions, and DEFINITELY not in a bad enough position to need to be improved that much.
    Ynystere packs have a lower value in solis headlands, 4 zones away than in villanelle, 2 zones away. Some things need to change.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    We've had multiple discussions over 'Gear Gap' over the past few years and the overall consensus is that it only exists to get more money for XL/Trion, as some people never want to lose and believe they deserve to stomp people rather than have a good fight.

    Here is the link to one such thread 7 months ago, and a very good post from another player.
    http://forums.archeagegame.com/showt...ishing+returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamepro03 View Post
    I'll just post these here again...

    Item Quality versus Stat charts - Near Current (missing 3.5 info) and the proposed solution to help gear gap while actually buffing everyone who currently has Epic+ Gear (making everyone feel good, hopefully, but yes still closing the gear gap). Essentially all that I've done is flipped the chart, where upgrading quality early gives more of a boost than upgrading quality in the higher tiers.



    This last chart looks at each tier and named tiers. Named tiers are Illustrious, Magnificent, Epherium, etc. The chart may be a bit hard to understand, but it makes clear that between each named tier lies a 20-25% stat gap. This isn't necessary the worst thing since progressing through this gear is linear, however the gap between each gear is rather large currently, and if you stack that ontop of the quality issues that I've listed above, the gap becomes enormous between many common items. A solution here would be to possibly reduce the difference between each named tier, however I feel that the grade differences listed above are much more pressing.

    Diminishing returns will not stop people from trying to go full mythic erenor/t7 gear, just so they can eek out every bit of advantage, or just to progress as something to do. What it will accomplish though is making people less dependent on alt armies to be able to help in large scale pvp battles. We'd see less alts if you could accomplish more with lower grade/tier gear and actually have an impact.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    We've had multiple discussions over 'Gear Gap' over the past few years and the overall consensus is that it only exists to get more money for XL/Trion, as some people never want to lose and believe they deserve to stomp people rather than have a good fight.

    Here is the link to one such thread 7 months ago, and a very good post from another player.
    http://forums.archeagegame.com/showt...ishing+returns

    Diminishing returns will not stop people from trying to go full mythic erenor/t7 gear, just so they can eek out every bit of advantage, or just to progress as something to do. What it will accomplish though is making people less dependent on alt armies to be able to help in large scale pvp battles. We'd see less alts if you could accomplish more with lower grade/tier gear and actually have an impact.
    Dude... i have already seen this idea...i, personally, think this idea is great and genius.

    But this idea, alone, wont fix the game play.

    The role point is that people who use a lot of alts generates lots and lots of gold. Much more than who dont exploit alts usage.

    In this situation (of using alts), trion and XL have two options...

    1. Let the nolifers alt exploiters beat the game (they will have all gears in max grade and status...like they would have eternals erenor weapons and armors) - this way trion and xl could not make changes in regrades and crafting values letting the game easier for no "nolifers" players

    2. Create new mechanics and make changes to not allow "nolifers" alt users beat the game. In this way trion and xl will keep this players in the game but will send away no "nolifers" players.

    It seens trion and XL have been selecting the option number 2 and this is why we see too many people complaining and leaving the game.

    Some people can say: "but trion will not make alt usage illegal cause the alts needs patron and it means money for trion and XL"

    There is some truth in this comment....but, in my way to see it, its not very smart, because:

    Point number 1: Its rare a user who has more than 3 patreon accounts. He can have 50 alt accounts but only 3 are patreon.

    Point number two: Why should i buy regrade charms in market place if i have an alt arm that receives it for free on daily rewards? (LOL).

    You dont need to even expansion scrolls or storages chests. You can only make some alts and use than as warehouse. You alse will get daily rewards for using the exploit (LOL)

    Why should i buy farms on ah or for loyalt if i can receive free design with alts? Just make your alt and get you brand new 16x16, also you can upgrade for a 24x24.

    Sure you can cheat on tax system with 2 or 3 patreon accounts, dont worry about it.

    Man...this alts problem goes beyond gameplay. Imagine that you have to prepare phisical systens (hardwares) to suport a lot of alts.

    Have you tried to stop and think how many gmail accounts were created just to making alts in MMO games??? How many reserved space they have in their servers that will never be used???(LOL)

    If we made a day without alts in archeage you would see they only need to have 1 or 2 servers in NA and 1 or 2 servers on EU.

    Archeage is the best game i ever played in my whole life...man...serious...its awesome. Its an experience with no precedents. WOW is nothing compared to archeage in my opinion...but it was until i discover how people were exploiting the alts usage and discovered theres no point to play this game...

    At the time you have to play with 3 or 4 accounts opened in you PC you will notice you are not enjoying a game...you are working for it.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    And thus, why I'm playing Conan Exiles instead of Alt-Age. I played ArcheAge from launch till this year and couldn't take it anymore. It is a magnificent game with no equal, but the alts and gear gap just totally ruined it. I tried the whole alt thing a few times, each time burning out and having to leave the game for a few weeks to regain sanity.

    As you said, if we eliminated alts, you could probably get just 1 high pop server per region due to the mass number of alts running around. People (like myself) who spent years grinding away getting cars, mounts, outfits, mansions and gear, feel disenfranchised by not being competitive unless we spend countless hours on numerous accounts just to be able to join pvp for a few events a week. Otherwise, without all that toiling away, we get 2 shot by, and can't deal any damage to, the alt-train conductors.

    This game should be doing so well, but it's not. I've never seen such a great game done in by poor management decisions. "We can't stop a few people from running alts, so f**k it. Let's lift the anti-cheat system and let EVERYBODY have a chance to run all the alts they want!" "People loved the game so much in alpha, so you know what we should do? Change the armor system so some nolifers and rich kids can get a huge advantage and 2 shot everyone else..."

    Yeah... I've already quit months ago, but I'm in the forums advocating to get the game into a playable state, so that people return. This IS the best game I've ever played, but it's too broken to spend time or money in.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snerdles View Post
    There is no way to enforce that, which is why it's allowed.


    Actually there is. I have seen the option at the log-in screen on other games I have played as to whether or not you wish to multi-box. Turning the option off prevents you from launching a second screen. (It also increase performance). Since the option exists, it follows that a login site can simply enforce a denial of any additional screens being able to launch from that computer, at that time.

    Sure people could buy more computers and have alts on simultaneously - but do you really think we would have the Alt numbers, in this scenario, that we have now?

    The answer, of course, is No.

  8. #28
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    PS I would say No to the poll but your insulting tone and the way you wrote the poll is ridiculously rude.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Rinalee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbo View Post
    Actually there is. I have seen the option at the log-in screen on other games I have played as to whether or not you wish to multi-box. Turning the option off prevents you from launching a second screen. (It also increase performance). Since the option exists, it follows that a login site can simply enforce a denial of any additional screens being able to launch from that computer, at that time.

    Sure people could buy more computers and have alts on simultaneously - but do you really think we would have the Alt numbers, in this scenario, that we have now?

    The answer, of course, is No.
    Having several computers isn't even needed lol.

    Virtual Box, Sandboxie :>

  10. #30
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    The point is

    We know its almost impossible to prevent everyone from alt usage.

    But there is so many ways to reduce the numbers of ingame alts.

    If someone knows that alts are mot allowed, heshe will think a lot more before risk hesshes mains account, where do heshe has money invested, cause heshe knows the account can get permanent ban.

    Besides that, use VPNs and Virtual machines really sucks the gameplay...cause, at least in my experience...it slows a lot the computer...

    the simple fact that you have to open one virtual machine to each alt you wanna run will meke you think 10 times before do that and you will need a much better computer and a lot of pacience to do that.

    Reducing the number of ingame alts you willl, consequently reduces the ammount of ingame gold and the prices would reduce. Apexes would be cheaper, reducing Pay to Wyn, and the economy would have to be readapted for one account users.

    I dont mind a few people playing illegal with alts....but i really cant play a game where run 3 or 4 alts at same time is almost mandatory.

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