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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Harveaux View Post
    Sorry for the late reply Trusivraj!
    No worries my man!

    Now, I'm afraid resilience doesn't work nearly as well, as the way you've calculated it, my man, at least not anymore. Prepatch, resilience indeed decimated crit dmg builds, and def pen would've been the spot on choice at that time, BUT resil recieve a heavy nerf with the current patch(s) we've been in. If 10k+ resli were to reduce my crit rate by 60%, i'd almost never crit against the opponents I've faced in arenas and open world. We're talkin 12-14k players, with full res boots, res lunafrosts, res costumes, etc. I only sit at 70-75% crit rate... so if I were to lose 60%, i'd only have 10-15% crit chance, yet I crit at least 2/3 attacks I make on these players (which is as if Im still critting at 60-75%, despite their high resil. Videos with dmg logs made, and on the way soon.)

    Then we get into dmg.. I crit full-hiram + res boot players for 5-7k dmg blazing arrows (cloth), and 7-12k dmg basic charged bolts (cloth) (after absorbtion), currently with 210% crit dmg, and 6200 defense pen. I have nearly 8k resil myself, yet they can also crit me for equal or slightly more dmg, but the dmg isnt vastly better, despite me having 2-4k less resilience.
    Meanwhile, when I, as an archer, had 9k defense pen, and no crit dmg, I crit for only 3.5-4.5k on the same players, even tho I ignored more of their defenses. Why? Because I had no crit dmg ontop of it (125% to be exact, with full def pen gems).

    Not critting in this game is bad, no matter how good your base dmg is, if you dont crit, it isnt going to win you any battles, which again, brings me to the fact that, as an archer, you won't zero out anyone above the 11k gearscore threshhold, because they have over 10k physical defense, be it with or without a shield and costume stats. On the otherhand, you can acquire 60% of the stat for free, without losing crit dmg, which is why "mixing" is the best option.

    You're not sacrificing crit dmg anywhere for a healthy amount of defense pen (accessories/costumes), but you're dumping 21 T3 crit gems for the most defense pen possible. Pure crit dmg was claimed to be worse from the start of my statement a couple weeks ago, thats not a debate. It's when you factor in that crit dmg can **Invest More** defense pen, than defense pen can invest in itself & crit dmg, that crit dmg reigns supreme. You are still gaining defense pen, but you arent losing another dmg stat for it.

    Pure def pen loses to Pure crit dmg + 60% (5-6k) defense pen, because a 55-60% defensive dmg increase isnt better than a 27-34% defensive dmg increase, PLUS an additional 125% offensive crit dmg increase.

    Thats roughly a 90% total dmg gap in favor of Pure Crit dmg + 60% defense pen.

    As for the "bonus slots" in costume, crit dmg and defense pen both benefit from each other, so you would still want it, rather than a minuscule 2-4% increase to your defenses, as a glass cannon character.
    Pew (Wynn/Kaylin)
    <The Shadehunting Master>
    ♤Lord of Halcyona♤


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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Trusivraj View Post
    No worries my man!

    Now, I'm afraid resilience doesn't work nearly as well, as the way you've calculated it, my man, at least not anymore. Prepatch, resilience indeed decimated crit dmg builds, and def pen would've been the spot on choice at that time, BUT resil recieve a heavy nerf with the current patch(s) we've been in. If 10k+ resli were to reduce my crit rate by 60%, i'd almost never crit against the opponents I've faced in arenas and open world. We're talkin 12-14k players, with full res boots, res lunafrosts, res costumes, etc. I only sit at 70-75% crit rate... so if I were to lose 60%, i'd only have 10-15% crit chance, yet I crit at least 2/3 attacks I make on these players (which is as if Im still critting at 60-75%, despite their high resil. Videos with dmg logs made, and on the way soon.)

    Then we get into dmg.. I crit full-hiram + res boot players for 5-7k dmg blazing arrows, and 8-12k dmg basic charged bolts (after absorbtion), currently with 210% crit dmg, and 6200 defense pen. I have nearly 8k resil myself, yet they can also crit me for equal or slightly more dmg, but the dmg isnt vastly better, despite me having 2-4k less resilience.
    Meanwhile, when I, as an archer, had 9k defense pen, and no crit dmg, I crit for only 3.5-4.5k on the same players, even tho I ignored more of their defenses. Why? Because I had no crit dmg ontop of it (125% to be exact, with full def pen gems).

    Not critting in this game is bad, no matter how good your base dmg is, if you dont crit, it isnt going to win you any battles, which again, brings me to the fact that, as an archer, you won't zero out anyone above the 11k gearscore threshhold, because they have over 10k physical defense, be it with or without a shield and costume stats. On the otherhand, you can acquire 60% of the stat for free, without losing crit dmg, which is why "mixing" is the best option.

    You're not sacrificing crit dmg anywhere for a healthy amount of defense pen (accessories/costumes), but you're dumping 21 T3 crit gems for the most defense pen possible. Pure crit dmg was claimed to be worse from the start of my statement a couple weeks ago, thats not a debate. It's when you factor in that crit dmg can **Invest More** defense pen, than defense pen can invest in itself & crit dmg, that crit dmg reigns supreme. You are still gaining defense pen, but you arent losing another dmg stat for it.

    Pure def pen loses to Pure crit dmg + 60% (5-6k) defense pen, because a 55-60% defensive dmg increase isnt better than a 27-34% defensive dmg increase, PLUS an additional 125% offensive crit dmg increase.

    Thats roughly a 90% total dmg gap in favor of Pure Crit dmg + 60% defense pen.

    As for the "bonus slots" in costume, crit dmg and defense pen both benefit from each other, so you would still want it, rather than a minuscule 2-4% increase to your defenses, as a glass cannon character.
    Can I see the Patch Note where is written that Resilience as been Nerfed? Becausa as now speaking with Korean Players on 5.6, the number are still 14% every 1000 Resilience...

    And I feel strange about how much do you Crit, you should test it against someone that YOU KNOW have 12K Resi... I tested myself with 50% against a 9k Player and I pretty much never critted...

    And another thing, even if you put Crit Chance at 100% in the calculation (So we can suppose Resilience don't reduce Crit Chance, that is not like that, but let's suppose so), Defence Penetration still win, that was the fun part of the calculation, there is no test, there is no opinion, math is math, and Full Defence Penetration win.

    The problem is that your Damage or data are based on Unknown factor, you don't really know exactly what you are hitting... The calculation instead know...

    And about the Resilience "Nerf", the only change that went to it was the one that made it so much stronger that increased the values that reduces but it can't go below 50%... This is the Change that made it strong, begore was meh...

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Harveaux View Post
    Can I see the Patch Note where is written that Resilience as been Nerfed? Becausa as now speaking with Korean Players on 5.6, the number are still 14% every 1000 Resilience...

    And I feel strange about how much do you Crit, you should test it against someone that YOU KNOW have 12K Resi... I tested myself with 50% against a 9k Player and I pretty much never critted...

    And another thing, even if you put Crit Chance at 100% in the calculation (So we can suppose Resilience don't reduce Crit Chance, that is not like that, but let's suppose so), Defence Penetration still win, that was the fun part of the calculation, there is no test, there is no opinion, math is math, and Full Defence Penetration win.

    The problem is that your Damage or data are based on Unknown factor, you don't really know exactly what you are hitting... The calculation instead know...

    And about the Resilience "Nerf", the only change that went to it was the one that made it so much stronger that increased the values that reduces but it can't go below 50%... This is the Change that made it strong, begore was meh...
    Idk what to tell you bro, but there's a reason no one on the server, including kooncoon, the King of AA, is full defense pen. if I personally were to put full res in my boots, I'd have 10k resilience, which I also have in my costumes. If I wanted maximum resilience, I'd get a Hiram hat and Hiram boots + T3 res gems. I've fought countless players with this setup.. and dmg them, as well as crit them just fine. You also should note not everyone you face is maxing resilience (which again, isn't as impactful as you think it to be), so factoring your build solely on maximum resilience players isn't always the best idea.
    Pew (Wynn/Kaylin)
    <The Shadehunting Master>
    ♤Lord of Halcyona♤


    Youtube Channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU..._as=subscriber
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Trusivraj View Post
    Idk what to tell you bro, but there's a reason no one on the server, including kooncoon, the King of AA, is full defense pen. if I personally were to put full res in my boots, I'd have 10k resilience, which I also have in my costumes. If I wanted maximum resilience, I'd get a Hiram hat and Hiram boots + T3 res gems. I've fought countless players with this setup.. and dmg them, as well as crit them just fine. You also should note not everyone you face is maxing resilience (which again, isn't as impactful as you think it to be), so factoring your build solely on maximum resilience players isn't always the best idea.
    First, Koonkoon King of what? He is simply the most famous good AA Player, himself admitted so many times that he just copy what he see in terms of builds because is not really good a theorycrafting, that the only thing that is good at is Mechanical Play an this is why he say "I'm number one", so basing your thought on someone that 90% of his vocabulary is "very danger", "no control" and "number one" don't know how much value does it have... Nothing to say on his ability to play, he is an amazingly good player in that regard.

    Second, so if everyone start playing full Healing Power on BladeDancer that is the right call because everyone do that? Come on, you know by yourself that people are sheep, people start bulding Critical Damage after the Gems Change and everybody followed up, after the Nerf to Critical Damage (Through the Resilience Buff in 5.1) everybody had already Geared for Critical Damage and spent Thousands and thousands of golds, labor and time on that... Do you think they would simply say "Oh, now I need to start over and pretty much everything I've done is wasted... I'm really happy about it!!!", no they just do two things, or advocate for their build and try to spread the word that is still the best so other people don't do that and they are on the same ground or they don't even care/know about it and just look forward.

    Third, there are so few Theory-Crafters in this Game that is obvious that the majority of people do simply what they see the most, nobody spend time to calculate Damage and just copy the closest strong person that they know...
    Strange enough anybody that is able to Theory-Craft a minimum said that Full Defence Penetration is the best Build, for making some names, Paradox, Nyym or Rohkudo in Korea... I also tried too to make some basic Math on that (Since Theory-Crafting is not a mountain to climb), and guess what? Same results as them.

    Forth, no one in the server does? Did you just for curiosity looked on the Highest Gear Score Ranking? If not, just go in Europe and watch the number one in the Ranking, "Zerotwo", and spend some times on looking down and see how many run a Full Defence Penetration Build...

    Fifth, is not like that Defence Penetration do not add Damage, so saying things like "You also should note not everyone you face is maxing resilience (which again, isn't as impactful as you think it to be), so factoring your build solely on maximum resilience players isn't always the best idea", does not make a lot of sense, if you are able to kill a Maximum Resilience Player mean that you are able to kill even someone that do not have Maximum Resilience... Simple logic about how Damage work...

    As said, when discussing about things there should be no bias on the argument, if someone start advocating for the Build that is using, there is nothing to improve and the misinformation start to spread...

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Harveaux View Post
    First, Koonkoon King of what? He is simply the most famous good AA Player, himself admitted so many times that he just copy what he see in terms of builds because is not really good a theorycrafting, that the only thing that is good at is Mechanical Play an this is why he say "I'm number one", so basing your thought on someone that 90% of his vocabulary is "very danger", "no control" and "number one" don't know how much value does it have... Nothing to say on his ability to play, he is an amazingly good player in that regard.

    Second, so if everyone start playing full Healing Power on BladeDancer that is the right call because everyone do that? Come on, you know by yourself that people are sheep, people start bulding Critical Damage after the Gems Change and everybody followed up, after the Nerf to Critical Damage (Through the Resilience Buff in 5.1) everybody had already Geared for Critical Damage and spent Thousands and thousands of golds, labor and time on that... Do you think they would simply say "Oh, now I need to start over and pretty much everything I've done is wasted... I'm really happy about it!!!", no they just do two things, or advocate for their build and try to spread the word that is still the best so other people don't do that and they are on the same ground or they don't even care/know about it and just look forward.

    Third, there are so few Theory-Crafters in this Game that is obvious that the majority of people do simply what they see the most, nobody spend time to calculate Damage and just copy the closest strong person that they know...
    Strange enough anybody that is able to Theory-Craft a minimum said that Full Defence Penetration is the best Build, for making some names, Paradox, Nyym or Rohkudo in Korea... I also tried too to make some basic Math on that (Since Theory-Crafting is not a mountain to climb), and guess what? Same results as them.

    Forth, no one in the server does? Did you just for curiosity looked on the Highest Gear Score Ranking? If not, just go in Europe and watch the number one in the Ranking, "Zerotwo", and spend some times on looking down and see how many run a Full Defence Penetration Build...

    Fifth, is not like that Defence Penetration do not add Damage, so saying things like "You also should note not everyone you face is maxing resilience (which again, isn't as impactful as you think it to be), so factoring your build solely on maximum resilience players isn't always the best idea", does not make a lot of sense, if you are able to kill a Maximum Resilience Player mean that you are able to kill even someone that do not have Maximum Resilience... Simple logic about how Damage work...

    As said, when discussing about things there should be no bias on the argument, if someone start advocating for the Build that is using, there is nothing to improve and the misinformation start to spread...
    I've told you many a time, I've tested a full defense pen build already, as an archer. I was weaker then, than I am now, currently with 2/3 crit dmg 1/3 defense pen (budget gemmed, cuz i didnt want to waste another 3k labor/gold on transmuting the last weapon) and defense pen in accessories and costumes.

    Top geared T3 weapon gem Archers On EU : Zerotwo:def pen- Deathlok: Crit dmg- Mikesdad: Crit dmg- Darkshinera: Crit Dmg- Elfenliied: Crit dmg- Exarkun: Crit dmg- Brutlex: 1/3 Def pen 2/3 Crit dmg- Samira: Crit dmg.

    I can continue if you'd like, but from the first 8 top geared archers, only 2 have defense pen gems. Whats funny about the rest of them? They have full crit dmg, with defense pen in their costumes and accessories.

    Yes, ppl are sheep in every mmo, they play and build whats easiest to follow, without high investment in knowledge of ones class and their opposition, so long as they are able to kill/tank with said builds. Building full defense pen IS NOT stronger. You never tested defense pen and crit dmg, you've only calculated pure defense pen VS pure crit dmg. The moment Pure crit dmg + 5-6k defense pen comes into play, both pure crit and pure defense pen lose. You're literally getting the best of both worlds, without sacrificing one or the other elsewhere.

    In regards to Kooncoon, yes.... the point of claiming him "king of AA" is the sole fact he's the best player in kr Skill-wise, which is far more acknowledging of a feat, than simply having the most gs or playing the strongest class. This is one of few rare mmos where u even have an option to play variations of the same class, so either way, he's greater than most ppl I've come across in this game's lifetime. He's also Korean, so yeah.. his English isn't the best, nor is yours honestly, and that doesnt devalue his information as a skilled player, nor the information i'm giving you.

    You find me a pure defense pen archer with 10k-12k resilience on NA, and I'll have an EA spam-off with them, and we can calculate dmg with one another, but until then, PURE defense pen is NOT stronger than Crit dmg+ Def Pen. I enjoyed being full defense pen mind you, but I saw the weakness in it, and I havent looked back after switching to crit dmg+ defense pen.
    Pew (Wynn/Kaylin)
    <The Shadehunting Master>
    ♤Lord of Halcyona♤


    Youtube Channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU..._as=subscriber
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    https://twitter.com/Trusivraj?lang=en
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Trusivraj View Post
    I've told you many a time, I've tested a full defense pen build already, as an archer. I was weaker then, than I am now, currently with 2/3 crit dmg 1/3 defense pen (budget gemmed, cuz i didnt want to waste another 3k labor/gold on transmuting the last weapon) and defense pen in accessories and costumes.

    Top geared T3 weapon gem Archers On EU : Zerotwo:def pen- Deathlok: Crit dmg- Mikesdad: Crit dmg- Darkshinera: Crit Dmg- Elfenliied: Crit dmg- Exarkun: Crit dmg- Brutlex: 1/3 Def pen 2/3 Crit dmg- Samira: Crit dmg.

    I can continue if you'd like, but from the first 8 top geared archers, only 2 have defense pen gems. Whats funny about the rest of them? They have full crit dmg, with defense pen in their costumes and accessories.

    Yes, ppl are sheep in every mmo, they play and build whats easiest to follow, without high investment in knowledge of ones class and their opposition, so long as they are able to kill/tank with said builds. Building full defense pen IS NOT stronger. You never tested defense pen and crit dmg, you've only calculated pure defense pen VS pure crit dmg. The moment Pure crit dmg + 5-6k defense pen comes into play, both pure crit and pure defense pen lose. You're literally getting the best of both worlds, without sacrificing one or the other elsewhere.

    In regards to Kooncoon, yes.... the point of claiming him "king of AA" is the sole fact he's the best player in kr Skill-wise, which is far more acknowledging of a feat, than simply having the most gs or playing the strongest class. This is one of few rare mmos where u even have an option to play variations of the same class, so either way, he's greater than most ppl I've come across in this game's lifetime. He's also Korean, so yeah.. his English isn't the best, nor is yours honestly, and that doesnt devalue his information as a skilled player, nor the information i'm giving you.

    You find me a pure defense pen archer with 10k-12k resilience on NA, and I'll have an EA spam-off with them, and we can calculate dmg with one another, but until then, PURE defense pen is NOT stronger than Crit dmg+ Def Pen. I enjoyed being full defense pen mind you, but I saw the weakness in it, and I havent looked back after switching to crit dmg+ defense pen.
    Koonkoon is the strongest Korean-Player that stream and you know about, it's pretty different... Again, HIMSELF told that he don't know much about Gearing and his only good at playing, so HIMSELF told that he have zero knowledge about anything not related to Combat... And I will repeat myself, I think too he is one of the best AA Player that I ever seen (So was Rythmn when was still playing, but he had too one of his Viewer that made the Builds for him), but being good at playing and theorycrafting are two different things... It happen in any "Competitive" Game, being good at playing doesn't mean you are also smart in Building.

    Man, as said, if you don't bring precise numbers to the table and not a "Before I did 4k now I do 7k with Blazing Arrow", that mean literally nothing in terms of testing, I can't really accept it as a response... When YOU will find someone to test if you're right, your point will have more value... Right now is you against the math, and sorry, but I'm staying with the Math...

    I accepted your "It does not reduce so much the Critical Rate" for the sake of giving another advantage to Melee Critical Damage, but even with 100% Critical Rate, Defence Penetration still win... Resilience reduce 14% CD every 1000, this is tested by anyone, and there is no doubt about this Data... This is enough to calculate your damage, if you don't trust my math, just open ArcheAge Calculator do your things and you will also see it...

    And you will for sure answer: Do what you want, I tested it, I know what I'm speaking about & ecc ecc...

    I'm not really into that discussion being a Healer Main, so I doubt I will ever reach that point in my PvE Farming Gear, so pointless discussing further I guess... But I backed up my claim with real numbers (That can't be denied), you spoke about your impressions and experiences, that can be flawed because you do not have complete infos/data on your Target or because you have a bias because is the build you are using (And so as 99% of the Players, you want it to be the best one).

    I've obsolutely nothing against you, I still think your are one of the most competent Players in this Forum and I really enjoyed that discussion, but without PRECISE numbers, nothing matter... But that's only my opinion.


    Edit:

    I just made some more math, against a Plate Target with 20.5k Armor (+20 Epic T3 Hiram = 72% Damage Reduction) with ONLY 11k Resilience (Not even 12, I just scrapped 1000 just for the sake of it)

    Three Builds (Still based on T1 +5 Gems and T3 Epic Hiram Gear obviusly):

    a) 9k Armor Pen
    b) 250% Critical Damage/3k Armor Pen
    c) 210% Critical Damage/6k Armor Pen (That build have less Critical Strike Rate, but we will pretend is on par with the other two)

    Now, before we start, 20.5k Armor give 72%, so let's calculate the penetration of this three Builds:

    1) 20.5k-9k = 11.5k = 59% Damage Reduction
    2) 20.5k-3k = 18.5k = 70% Damage Reduction
    3) 20.5k-6k = 15.5k = 65% Damage Reduction

    We will use the same method as before, 50% Critical Chance, 100 Damage and 2 Attacks (With three scenarios)

    a) 9k Armor Pen:

    1. 41 (Non-Crit) + 41 (Non-Crit) = 82 Damage
    2. 41 (Non-Crit) + 61.5 (Crit) = 102.5 Damage
    3. 61.5 (Crit) + 61.5 (Crit) = 123 Damage

    b) 250CD/3K Armor Pen: (200 Critical Damage - 155 (11k Resilience) = 45 + 50 (Base CD) = 95% Critical Damage):

    1. 30 (Non-Crit) + 30 (Non-Crit) = 60 Damage
    2. 30 (Non-Crit) + 58.5 (Crit) = 88.5 Damage
    3. 58.5 (Crit) + 58.5 (Crit) = 117 Damage

    c) 210CD/6k Armor Pen: (160 Critical Damage - 155 (11k Resilience) = 5 + 50 (Base CD) = 55% Critical Damage):

    1. 35 (Non-Crit) + 35 (Non-Crit) = 70 Damage
    2. 35 (Non-Crit) + 54.25 (Crit) = 89,25 Damage
    3. 54.25 (Crit) + 54.25 (Crit) = 108.50 Damage


    Here we go, even against a Plate User (Which Critical Damage should be the Counter) Defence Penetration still win... The only case where you would deal more Damage with Critical Damage Builds, is with the Precision Strike Skill (Obviusly only if it Crit), that is the only Skill with a Critical Damage Bonus, but even there, the % of damage gained for only one Skill is not worth all the Damage lost in the others Skills.


    On top of that, we scrapped 1k Resilience (That would be another 14% Critical Damage Reduction, but in any case Armor Pen win all the way down till 8k Resilience) and boosted the Critical Chance to 50%, but even if Resilience would not reduce Critical Rate (Which is not the case) and Critical Rate was 100% the answer is already pretty clear.

    But if your PlayStyle is killing Low-Geared people with 6k Resilience, at that point just go at Rockborne Basin and spawn-kill lvl 40...

    Even if I could sound rude, having a bias toward the Build that you're using, does not offer anything to the community.

    Math is math, personal experiences/opinions are personal experiences/opinions.

  7. #27
    Archers cant achieve anywhere close to 12k def pen... :/ subtract that by 2-3k, and crit dmg+def pen still wins, even in your very own calculations. Then you factor in that you can actually achieve 300% crit dmg, before resil reductions, with 5k defense pen, and the gap widens even more. Soooo... I think we can now come to agree, that crit dmg + def pen wins~ Even if we were to sit solely on your current equations, the difference is so small it really doesnt even matter. xD

    You did great with the math tho, everything looks spot on, but you added too much max def pen to archers, and 2k defense pen less to the 300% crit dmg build, which is where the math fell apart, in favor of pure defense pen, when 300% crit dmg + 5k defense pen actually wins. (Heck, even 260% wins after removing 2-3k def pen from that 12k).

    Edit: Also plate is the worst comparison to make, because the moment a true target's defense is accounted for(2h/DW leather/2h-dw cloth), you actually start to waste defense pen (more for melee than archery), where u could've had crit dmg to compensate instead.
    Pew (Wynn/Kaylin)
    <The Shadehunting Master>
    ♤Lord of Halcyona♤


    Youtube Channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU..._as=subscriber
    Twitter:
    https://twitter.com/Trusivraj?lang=en
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    https://www.twitch.tv/trusivraj

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Trusivraj View Post
    Archers cant achieve anywhere close to 12k def pen... :/ subtract that by 2-3k, and crit dmg+def pen still wins, even in your very own calculations. Then you factor in that you can actually achieve 300% crit dmg, before resil reductions, with 5k defense pen, and the gap widens even more. Soooo... I think we can now come to agree, that crit dmg + def pen wins~ Even if we were to sit solely on your current equations, the difference is so small it really doesnt even matter. xD

    You did great with the math tho, everything looks spot on, but you added too much max def pen to archers, and 2k defense pen less to the 300% crit dmg build, which is where the math fell apart, in favor of pure defense pen, when 300% crit dmg + 5k defense pen actually wins. (Heck, even 260% wins after removing 2-3k def pen from that 12k).

    Edit: Also plate is the worst comparison to make, because the moment a true target's defense is accounted for(2h/DW leather/2h-dw cloth), you actually start to waste defense pen (more for melee than archery), where u could've had crit dmg to compensate instead.
    Oh you, looked at the post before I edited it, I edited like 5 min after without taking in consideration the 3k Puncture Passive (So 9k) and made again every calculations, without giving nothing for free and looking for any Skill that could give Critical Damage, and there is only one (Precision Strike), so it was pointless give 50 Critical Damage for free when only one Skill give that...

    But the point still there, the calculations show the same exact thing, Defence Penetration still win in every scenario as you can see (And even adding the Pucture Passive on top of it in all three Build, does not change it, Full Defence Penetration still on top).

    The only thing that does more damage is Precision Strike IF it crit, and even there, the % of damage gained for that Skill is not comparable to all the Damage loss of the other Skills...


    For answering that:

    Edit: Also plate is the worst comparison to make, because the moment a true target's defense is accounted for(2h/DW leather/2h-dw cloth), you actually start to waste defense pen (more for melee than archery), where u could've had crit dmg to compensate instead.


    If you are at the point of having a Epic T3 Weapon (With like 1350/1600 Melee/Ranged Attack) and you zero-out the defence of your Target (DW/2H Cloth/Leather) you will bi/three shot him even if he stacked Toughness/Melee-Ranged Reduction to the maximum (More true for Melee than Archer, but it's the more or less the same).

    The problem of Critical Damage is that is useless until you reach a certain Threshold, and Armor Pen Build have anyway a 50% for free since Resilience can't decreare it more... Since that chance, Armor Pen is the king, and there is nothing you can do about it.

    (And how you will reach 300% Critical Damage?Even with T3 Gem you don't get there (250% is already with Eternal Costume/Cloak/Ecc), same for 5k Defence Penetration... And if we use T3 Gem, you need to count them even in the Full Defence Penetration Build, so it increase even more... So no, there is still no agreement ahahah, math still point out on Defence Penetration as best)

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Harveaux View Post
    Oh you, looked at the post before I edited it, I edited like 5 min after without taking in consideration the 3k Puncture Passive (So 9k) and made again every calculations, without giving nothing for free and looking for any Skill that could give Critical Damage, and there is only one (Precision Strike), so it was pointless give 50 Critical Damage for free when only one Skill give that...

    But the point still there, the calculations show the same exact thing, Defence Penetration still win in every scenario, the only thing that does more damage is Precision Strike IF it crit, and even there, the % of damage gained for that Skill is not comparable to all the Damage loss of the other Skills...


    For answering that:

    Edit: Also plate is the worst comparison to make, because the moment a true target's defense is accounted for(2h/DW leather/2h-dw cloth), you actually start to waste defense pen (more for melee than archery), where u could've had crit dmg to compensate instead.


    If you are at the point of having a Epic T3 Weapon (With like 1350/1600 Melee/Ranged Attack) and you zero-out the defence of your Target (DW/2H Cloth/Leather) you will bi/three shot him even if he stacked Toughness/Melee-Ranged Reduction to the maximum (More true for Melee than Archer, but it's the more or less the same).

    The problem of Critical Damage is that is useless until you reach a certain Threshold, and Armor Pen Build have anyway a 50% for free since Resilience can't decreare it more... Since that chance, Armor Pen is the king, and there is nothing you can do about it.
    Steady shooting- +56% critical dmg
    Achievable defense pen with Max crit dmg-5k-6.3k(def pen scroll)
    Crit rate with defense pen in weapons-75-80% based on agility and gear passives (tricorn hat)

    You didn't factor those in yet.
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    ♤Lord of Halcyona♤


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  10. #30
    I can't really accept Steady Shooting as an answer since you will only be able to use it in a Zerg Fight (Small Scale and 1v1 is pretty much impossible), but let's accept it, let's say you only want to play Zerg... You can reach 300% Critical Damage on the Full Critical Damage, but how you reach 5k (I will factor the 1.3k of the Scroll after, just follow me for a bit), over that you said that you will put Crit Rate on the Weapons losing Critical Damage...

    I can't accept that you don't use some Critical Damage Gem (Or you don't put Critical Damage on Weapon), because you take in consideration the 56% of Steady shooting, so you are saying your Build become "better" ONLY if you are using Steady Shooting? Not realistic, and you know it.

    But as asked, how do you reach 5k Defence Pen? 3k (3.5k with T3 Gems) is the maximum if you want to reach 250% Critical Damage (I'm still not counting the Scroll)

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