+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 48

Thread: [Guide] Defence Penetration vs Critical Damage (Also 2H vs DW)

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by saltminer View Post
    Resilience used to reduce the total damage of a critical hit (with a floor of 150% damage of a regular hit) by the fraction of X/(X+ 18000), where X was your resilience. It wasn't published, but the previous change in the middle of the introduction of hiram changed the constant in the denominator to around 14000 (boosted the effect of resilience). That was the same change that claimed a cap of 300% on added crit damage. Resilience does NOT have a constant amount of reduction, as OP stated, and I'd appreciate a source on the next change to it (1.3->1.2?).
    Resilience have a constant amount of reduction and it is exactly 14% every 1k, I TESTED IT PERSONALLY MULTIPLE TIMES.
    The X/(X+18000) was casually mentioned by a Casual User on a Casual Thread on this Forum and come from a Video of a Russian Player that 1) It is probably a 2 years old Video by now 2) Used a method that have literally no sense and the calculations were completly wrong.

    But if you want to test youself, you can do it... Just go naked with 0% Critical Damage, pop Battle Focus (+20% Critical Damage) and attack someone with 1400 Resilience (20% Critical Damage Reduction), you will see with literally BASIC math that your Damage when you Crit will be increased ALWAYS by 50% and not 70%, not 65%, not 60% and not 55%, but a simple and easy Base 50% Critical Damage that can't be reduced... (This is the easy way, after that you increase your Critical Damage and the Target Resilience, and you will keep doing it as long is possible for you/your partner to gain Critical Damage/Resilience, and you will notice that the reduction is ALWAYS 14% every 1k Resilience, it does not vary at 1k Resilience or 11k Resilience. It's a constant reduction, NOT a % of your current Critical Damage Value.

    https://archeage.xlgames.com/mboards/amigo/20655?page=2 Here the link for the 1.3>1.2 Change (Flexibility = Resilience). (Use Google Translate)

    Downsizing of Flexibility Among the battle balance adjustments that were held last September, there was a patch that raised the efficiency of flexibility. Flexibility is made up of complex formulas, so the deadly reduction is very different depending on the situation. However, we adjusted the coefficient by estimating the general situation at that time, but it was somewhat higher than expected in certain numerical ranges. In addition, it seems that adjustment of the efficiency of the patch is more efficient than the intention of increasing the efficiency of the patch, which is caused by synergy with the flexibility and damage reduction synthesis effect of ancient equipment.

    However, this does not necessarily translate into the pre-September level, and we intend to adjust it to about 70% of the upward level at that time. For example, assuming that the efficiency before September is 1.0, we raised it to 1.3 due to the patch in September, but we will downgrade it to 1.2 as the upward trend is more efficient than expected.
    Flexibility Efficiency change: 1.0 (before September) → 1.3 (September change) → 1.2 (this change)




    I will repeat myself once again, do not spread misinformation.

  2. #12
    Senior Member MiroH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    142
    I see some ppl in this thread do not understand how stuff works, Resilence right now is 14% mitigation of crit damage per 1k with 10k you have 140% crit mitigation which will be soon nerfed to 12.8% down from 14% making 11k resilence the new 10k resilence. If you want your damage to increase with a crit damage build you would need above 190% to see the gains in crit damage since at that point you will go above 50% crit damage in pvp against a 10k resilence target which is why a players who have tested this concluded 2h is better with a def pen build as you cannot stack your crit damage to the point where it out damages def pen in a pvp scenario and since most players in this game are leather users it works........then you have to also factor in shield pen rate which you get from using a 2h which reduces the shield defense down to 50% with a 50% proc rate. If im wrong in what Im saying and you have tested this please point out what I said thats wrong.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by MiroH View Post
    I see some ppl in this thread do not understand how stuff works, Resilence right now is 14% mitigation of crit damage per 1k with 10k you have 140% crit mitigation which will be soon nerfed to 12.8% down from 14% making 11k resilence the new 10k resilence. If you want your damage to increase with a crit damage build you would need above 190% to see the gains in crit damage since at that point you will go above 50% crit damage in pvp against a 10k resilence target which is why a players who have tested this concluded 2h is better with a def pen build as you cannot stack your crit damage to the point where it out damages def pen in a pvp scenario and since most players in this game are leather users it works........then you have to also factor in shield pen rate which you get from using a 2h which reduces the shield defense down to 50% with a 50% proc rate. If im wrong in what Im saying and you have tested this please point out what I said thats wrong.
    Exactly, you understood it 100% correctly.

    I would only point out that it is not really a matter of "Most of Players in this Game are Leather User" and so it work because of that, everything would also apply against a Plate User up to 22k Defence or a even bit more (A number that will even increase if you use T3 Gems and after the 2H Gems Buff).

  4. #14
    Senior Member Dutchydutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Murica
    Posts
    148
    Quote Originally Posted by Harveaux View Post
    No, they are not.

    The only Gems that get buffed are the 2H ones, from 1.25 of a 1H Gem to a 1.5 of a 1H Gem.

    https://archeage.xlgames.com/mboards/amigo/21664?page=1 (Use Google Translate)

    Let's not start to spread misinformation right away.
    Thatís what I meant, sorry. 1hand gems are also getting buff.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchydutch View Post
    That’s what I meant, sorry. 1hand gems are also getting buff.
    Maybe there is some language barrier.

    1H GEMS are NOT getting Buffed.

    Only Gems for 2H Weapons are getting a Buff.

    Again: https://archeage.xlgames.com/mboards/amigo/21664?page=1 (Use Google Translate)

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    254
    should a dw mage sitting at 270%+ crit dmg consider a crit dmg build since cap is 300%?

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    1,724
    Does anyone know how mismatched levels impact this? I know that having a higher level than someone impacts how Resilience and Toughness factor in but I don't know the equation. I tried killing a lvl 40 and he was pretty tanky.

  8. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    214
    Quote Originally Posted by Harveaux View Post
    handwaving.
    I guess I need to do this in two parts.

    Part one, the resilience formula comes from the Koreans that did the theorycrafting, confirmed by at least a couple people on these forums. That's the same theorycrafting that produced the x/(x+7900) for defense mitigation, that you used, and 8000(?) for toughness mitigation. So I don't get how you're not running with the Korean info for your resilience calculation, yet you are running with it for the next update? Spamming the word 'casual' and speculating incorrectly is lazy, and the BS asymmetry principal comes to mind (it takes an order of magnitude more effort to disprove BS than it takes to spout it), so I'll just leave that at that.

    Part two, where you suggest a 'test,' makes me wonder. It's rather difficult to setup a test scenario where the character receiving the damage manages to have no other stats in play that affect the accuracy of a single round of tests, let alone when more resilience is added for further rounds of testing, since that virtually requires adding gemmed gear, which at least will have a defense value. On top of that, it takes a lot of averaging to handle the outputs of even a single round of testing, as the damage comes out in a distribution of values unless you've hit the crit damage floor.

    That said, if it's 14% per 1k, and you use 1.4k, then it's 19.6% damage reduction, because basic multiplication. While I give you the benefit of the doubt that you rounded, the way you've responded to me, as well as all the rounding you did in your original post, suggests that you just used the formulas you thought were right to produce results from initial values, and didn't do the actual testing in-game. It's especially obnoxious because I've done the actual testing in-game. If you'd done any non-casual testing in-game (since your post was pure theorycraft), you'd notice that some skills output random damage values (flamebolt, for instance) even if it's several hits of the same type (crit) against an unchanged target, so you end up having to average all possible outputs to 'check' the damage. You also have to account for fixed damage reduction, and whatever else on your resilience gear that interferes with testing, as well as staying above the damage floor so results aren't artificially clipped.

    After all that, you wouldn't be saying 'always' or 'exactly' a rounded number like 14%. But I know you didn't do all that. That said, I'm fine with saying x/(x+14000), because that same formula, which I used as an educated guess on my first set of testing how much reduction resilience did(one gem versus no gem in the shirt, all other stats accounted for), turned out to fit the remainder of my tests to 99% accuracy when I did 2,3,4,5,6, and then 7 resilience gems in the shirt and ran averages. All you did was theorycraft from a few good assumptions, and a bad one. I'm just saying, fix the bad one.


    do not spread misinformation. Oh, and thanks for the source.

    EDIT: On a side note, if you ran this game and wanted to make a quick change to improve the effect of resilience, you might just try changing that constant in the denominator. The lower that constant, the more effective resilience would be. And if you lowered that constant from 18000 to 14000, some folks might check that ratio and notice that 18000 is about 1.3x as large as 14000, and if you felt like you overshot it and made resilience too good, you might even try raising it to 15000 instead. 18000 is 1.2x as large as 15000. And if you think most of the people that would read all that would be annoyed, you might simplify it, and say "we're going from 1.0, to 1.3, to 1.2, roughly speaking," just like your link says.

    Or you could handwave "illuminati" at me. Meh.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollolol View Post
    Does anyone know how mismatched levels impact this? I know that having a higher level than someone impacts how Resilience and Toughness factor in but I don't know the equation. I tried killing a lvl 40 and he was pretty tanky.
    It does not, Higher Ancestral Level do not count as Higher Level... The Max level is Base level 55, an Ancestral level 1 and an Ancestral level 40 are considered at the same Level. The only thing that you gain with Ancestral Levels are more Stats.

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    1,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Harveaux View Post
    It does not, Higher Ancestral Level do not count as Higher Level... The Max level is Base level 55, an Ancestral level 1 and an Ancestral level 40 are considered at the same Level. The only thing that you gain with Ancestral Levels are more Stats.
    That doesn't seem correct to me. Maybe it is but that would mean that all the lower level people that hit my lvl 39 have sufficiently worse gear than the high lvl people that hit me.

    It's really noticeable when higher lvl people are hitting me. When I check the people who are hurting me they are always high lvl. Correlation is not causation so it's possible that they are high lvl because they hit hard

    I'm not particularly abnormally geared. Mostly T3 Epic Hiram plate with 2 pieces T4 Mythic (Pants + chest with gems). No shield (dual wield).

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts