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Thread: Gamigo making AAU P2W in violation of the stated game rules

  1. #11
    Senior Member Turambaredolas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikroman View Post
    One time limited cost to buy DLC/ expansion or periodic static cost of services (subscription) is not "P2W". That is the default settings of business model. You can say its expensive and its not fair, but it's not p2w.
    I think it depends on how you define p2w.

    APEX version: You can pay as often as you want to get a certain boost. Buy 1 Apex, sell it, use the gold to progress, buy another 5000 Apex, sell them, etc.
    DLC version: You buy the DLC once, get access to additional ressources, get access to gear upgrades that give you advantages in some of the normal activites of the game.

    In both versions you pay and both versions allow you to progress faster. However the last version does not allow you to progress past a certain point.
    A child of song, a child of rage
    Abandoned in another age
    Now ancient hate and rhymes that bind
    Make paradise a tomb divine
    And demons trapped in beauty’s thrall
    Hunt those who heed the bloodsong’s call.

  2. #12
    DLC is not p2w.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Susanfriend View Post
    DLC is not p2w.
    It is when that DLC is paid-for & includes the only way to access better gear.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Demondim View Post
    It is when that DLC is paid-for & includes the only way to access better gear.
    Still...is not a p2w.
    A lot of games have a pay expansions.
    This argumentation is crazy.

    I respect the opinion what people say about the promisses etc... but, you dont need to spreed fake news.
    Dlc is not p2w.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Turambaredolas's Avatar
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    P2W in Archeage usually means that you can progress faster by paying money (e.g. in legacy: buy APEX for money, sell for gold, use gold to progress).

    I agree that a DLC isn't necessarily p2w, BUT this one has 2 major flaws that make it p2w:
    (1) By paying money, you get exclusive access to top tier ressources and items that boost your progress speed several times compared to someone who doesn't have the DLC.
    (2) By paying for the DLC, you get exclusive access to the highest tiers of several gear types (best-in-slot items). If you don't pay for the DLC you don't have access to them or (for Erenor) you have to buy them from other players who have the DLC.

    This means that the DLC is a paywall for both progress speed AND access to top tier items.
    Where is the difference to being able to directly buy BiS items?
    "Best weapon DLC"
    "Best armor DLC"
    "Best mount DLC"
    "Best vehicle DLC"

    Even if we say that (1) isn't that bad, because you get your full eternal T4 hiram equip in 3 years while people with the DLC get it done in less than 1 year (EHM+WHM infusion quests used as a time reference compared to the additional garden infusions) your progression would still come to a halt once you reach that point and only paying makes it possible continue your progress.

    no T5 (slight improvement of dps/armor) -> no equipment specialisation -> huge disadvantage in offensive and defensive powers in end-game

    In my opinion, having a paywall in the late game downgrades the whole game to a (huge) demo version and only the game+DLC is the full version.


    It may be true that it is the same for other games, but that does not change the fact that it is a paywall for BiS items.
    Let me give you a few examples of possible DLCs for Archeage that are not p2w:

    cosmetics
    *wardrobe: kind of what we have as the preview function in the ingame encyclopedia, but in a screen like the character creation and with access to all costumes/gear items
    *advanced character customization

    fun games
    no reward but the fun for playing them
    *racing: another island like mirage where you can use ingame vehicles to have car races or horse races (etc) against other players
    *advanced arena: more arena types
    *advanced arena2: additional arena entries that offer no reward but you can still pvp

    just a few first ideas
    A child of song, a child of rage
    Abandoned in another age
    Now ancient hate and rhymes that bind
    Make paradise a tomb divine
    And demons trapped in beauty’s thrall
    Hunt those who heed the bloodsong’s call.

  6. #16
    You can say that you threw a chicken from a house roof and that it didn't fall. That flew.
    And I will continue to deny this.
    Chickens don't fly and dlc is not p2w.

    However, if you do not want to pay for the principle that Gamigo has promised, I respect your opinion.

    I will pay because I like the game very much. Even with bugs and Scam (like my complaint below). I left AA a few years ago, I played all the MMOs that exist. Even Taylandia "went" to play Air and found nothing like AA. My biggest complaint was the NATIONS and the APEX (real p2w). AAU has none of these things and now I play as I want.

    I bought a Wii game for my daughters, it cost 25 € and it sucks. And the game has several prizes on top. Don't ask me how. € 16 for those who like this game is nothing, but I will demand more events, expansions, customs and lower prices in the game store. Even because, they made prices where they are at a loss because almost nobody buys costumes and other things from the store.

    For example, I would love to buy the mannequins ... but they cost 500 credits. It is a steal. They should cost 100 credits each. Therefore, they cost 500 credits, no one buys them and Gamico receives zero € for them. In fact Gamico is not very smart about making prices and launching new things.

    I would have managed this for the dlcs in another way and there would not have been all this confusion. And I would still charge the same € 16. These people who manage these things are not very bright.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Turambaredolas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susanfriend View Post
    For example, I would love to buy the mannequins ... but they cost 500 credits. It is a steal. They should cost 100 credits each. Therefore, they cost 500 credits, no one buys them and Gamico receives zero € for them. In fact Gamico is not very smart about making prices and launching new things.
    (Almost) Everyone I know who cares about either costumes or decoration has between 2 and 4 of those mannequins. And even on Unchained where getting costumes is mostly bound to your credits I know quite a few people who are already stacking them up and have more than 20.

    I agree, that the price for the DLC isn't that high. What I am actually concerned about is that it further splits the community. And according to the announcement that every major patch in the future will be a DLC, it makes me wonder how it will turn out to be. Will we have 3 different version of Unchained in 1 year? 4 versions in 18 months? As we can see with this DLC, they don't mind gating endgame content behind this paywall, so - depending on the future patches - how many more times will this happen? Will the patches/DLCs be consecutive?
    So will it be: Base Game -> DLC1 -> DLC2 -> DLC3 or will you be able to buy the base game and then buy the DLC you want? But what happens if you can't really use DLC2 without DLC1 (e.g. hypothetical addition of hiram t6 in DLC2 but you need DLC1 or you won't get your items from the base game to t4).

    And another point about the DLC: There are some people who say that you could simply play the base game without the DLC. That may be true, but it is almost like saying that you can play the legacy version of Archeage without patron - which is simply wrong considering how much slower your progression is. (I know Unchained vs DLC isn't that

    I simply don't really know what to prefer. From my financial point of view, I really liked that I had spent some money on accounts + customization of my characters and that I was done paying. I know that it wasn't good from the publisher's financial point of view.
    I rather pay more money in monthly subscriptions, get updates automatically and every players gets them instead of the DLC version that kind of forces you to pay or you can't continue and players may end up playing different versions of the same game.
    A child of song, a child of rage
    Abandoned in another age
    Now ancient hate and rhymes that bind
    Make paradise a tomb divine
    And demons trapped in beauty’s thrall
    Hunt those who heed the bloodsong’s call.

  8. #18
    The definition of P2W is you have to pay to, well, win, AKA get ahead.

    You are correct that in many games, DLC is *not* P2W. However, in this specific instance, the DLC released by Gamigo to AAU, is, in fact, P2W. Without it, you cannot advance your character past a specific spot. There are several things that make this DLC P2W. An expansion (which is what they should be calling this) often is required to advance (see WoW for example).


    a) Only people who buy the DLC get 2 additional skill points -> A P2W advantage
    b) Only people who buy the DLC get access to get the best gear -> A P2W advantage.

    Even Gamigo has flat out admitted that this DLC is in fact, a P2W advantage. Not only that, they correctly term this an "expansion" in their apology for making AAU P2W.

  9. #19
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    DLC or expansion is bigger "power up" contents. Game changer content. And no, that is not p2w. That is the part of business model. P2w is the option to spend money without limitation to get more and more "power" and/or resources. Its money gated power for small target group (whales. biggest money bags). "Small" static and limited cost is not p2w. That is intended to buy everyones. If all players can use it that is not advantage anymore. And it doesn't stack. You can't spend 3 DLC package to 1 account to get tripled "Power".

  10. #20
    Senior Member Turambaredolas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mishikal View Post
    a) Only people who buy the DLC get 2 additional skill points -> A P2W advantage
    b) Only people who buy the DLC get access to get the best gear -> A P2W advantage.
    I doubt this is the case. The garden update, along with changes such as the skill points, will most likely be like this:
    Everyone has to download the update+DLC, and everyone will have certain update changes but only those who bought access to the DLC can enter the Garden instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikroman View Post
    DLC or expansion is bigger "power up" contents. Game changer content. And no, that is not p2w. That is the part of business model. P2w is the option to spend money without limitation to get more and more "power" and/or resources. Its money gated power for small target group (whales. biggest money bags). "Small" static and limited cost is not p2w. That is intended to buy everyones. If all players can use it that is not advantage anymore. And it doesn't stack. You can't spend 3 DLC package to 1 account to get tripled "Power".
    Just to understand it correctly:

    Your definition of p2w is that it can be repeated/stacked?
    Doesn't this definition mean that having gliders, mounts, vehicles, etc for credits is not p2w either, but rather a DLC that should be called something like a "Kirin DLC" or "Ravenspinewing DLC" ?
    A child of song, a child of rage
    Abandoned in another age
    Now ancient hate and rhymes that bind
    Make paradise a tomb divine
    And demons trapped in beauty’s thrall
    Hunt those who heed the bloodsong’s call.

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