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Thread: The Economic Basis: What AA's Economy Needs

  1. #1
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    The Economic Basis: What AA's Economy Needs

    Background: With the interesting idea of a completely player-driven economy, the economic system needs to have a few clear features in order to maintain a healthy economy for players both newly joining AA, and older players in AA already, who should of course have some sort of advantage over newer players, but not so much so that it prevents new players from catching up with them if they work hard at it. I'll make a list giving my ideas and main features for the economy that will help eliminate any issues with gold being circulated out of/into the economy of the game. Note I have yet to actually play AA, so some of these ideas might already be implemented or parts of the ideas. This is just an overall concept for a possible economic system for AA.
    1. NPC Trading: An idea for NPC trading that I think would surely be of help, would be that regarding common goods. Things like wood, iron, and other items used for crafting, outlive the extent of their usefulness. Without any sort of sink for items such as these, after many players have already crafted the desirable goods from these base resources, there could possibly be a massive surplus of basic goods like these that might cause such radical drops in their prices, that it is no longer profitable for newer players to be farming these in order for them to make money. Players who have been playing longer will have such a massive upper-hand over these newer players that it will be nearly impossible for the monetary gap between these veteran and new players to be closed. It could cause huge issues!
      A solution would be to create easy to turn in repeatable quests, or trade routes that take either little to no labor points and allow players to obtain either gold or Gilda Stars that allow players to cycle these common resources out of the market when there is a large surplus. As soon as the price grows back up for these resources, then players will rather sell them to other players causing market saturation once more, which will lower prices, and cause players to want to trade them in with these repeatable quests causing an unending cycle which would cause for a nice healthy game-economy.

    2. Craftable Item Quests: This is a similar idea to that of the prior, where the demand and supply of crafted goods will grow so far out of balance for each other, that it will cause massive economic issues, particularly for new players.
      The solution would be that similar to the prior as well. However, this would be a bit more efficient so that players of high crafting level in a particular progression will gain a bit more gilda stars or gold than those players who simply turn in the raw resources, being correctly compensated for the labor points they expended to craft the items they did. Forming a repeatable quest with this nature would allow for a healthy cycle as that mentioned before, maintaining the desire to level up professions and continue to craft.

    3. Gold Sink: An important element to any MMORPG in my opinion. Gold sinks offer a place in which players will circulate currency out of rotation that would normally have no definite end as NPCs and Quests would continue to add gold into circulation that would never be cycled out. A gold sink is essential in a market-driven MMORPG like AA. I had some ideas of possible golds sinks as follows.
      Housing: Housing should still be maintained as it is, not being too expensive that it is impossible for players to own lots of property, or their own little house, but still offering a gold sink via the taxes the player will have to pay to maintain and upkeep that house. It should be at an optimal level that allows wealthy players to control large amounts of real estate but not so little that they can completely dominate a map, but with a large Guild, they can properly maintain a quite large area of real estate. It should also be low enough that each player can own real estate without having any real issues maintaining it if they continue to play and make money. A system that I heard was already implemented is the exponential taxing feature where the more property you own, the higher your taxes are exponentially. This is a good idea to maintain safe levels of property ownership for veteran players allowing new players to still safely secure land.
      Auction House: This is a pretty common gold sink in many MMORPG's I've seen. A small portion of the money made from a auction is taken as "fee" by the NPC Auctioneer which allows for a nice gold sink. However, I've seen some MMORPG's really overdo the fee which can be a massive issue in one of the more fun aspects of the AH system, which is playing the market. The primary gold sink should not be the AH to such an extent that it is impossible to play the market to make profit. It would ruin a economy-driven MMORPG like AA. The fee should be of maximal imposition but still play a role as a viable gold sink for a healthy economy.

    4. Gilda Stars: I think there is massive potential for this resource that is gained primarily via trading. It's an awesome idea and allow for some cool possibilities for providing an alternate means for ridding the economy of built-up resources and such. The ideas I have are as follows.
      Ships: As I've heard, the way to rebuild blown up ships you have, is either to buy an item from other players, or craft it yourself through Alchemy. This seems viable at first, but really, the items that it requires would be limited to the mats needed to craft the item, offering a resource sink for ONLY THOSE RESOURCES. This could serve as a massive issue, however if the way of acquisition for such an item as this would be to buy it, or even craft it using Gilda Stars, the materials required for obtaining this essential item, would be shifted to that of a much much larger variety. As I explained earlier with the common resource sink, you could earn Gilda Stars by turning over these commonly produced goods, in order to turn into useful things like the only means to repair your ship! It's a simple but effective system that I think would work well in AA.
      Castles and Stuff: Just like this category suggests, another means for spending on Gilda stars would be on Castles and stuff. I Heard that a use for Gilda Stars (or at least the only one I know of right now) is for buying schematics from mirage island. This is a very good source for ridding an excessive build of Gilda Stars in the economy. When a player builds a castle or something to that effect, if that castle or building is destroyed on the northern continent, the schematic WILL NOT be returned to the player. This means that player in order to continually rebuild or build castles and such, will need to continually obtain Gilda Stars either by themselves, or with their Guild Mates. This is a great way to rid excessive Gilda Stars from the economy.

    Conclusion: So, as I have demonstrated, in order to maintain a healthy economy and friendly economic environment for both new and veteran players, AA needs a few key features driving the system. This is essential for a economic-based Game such as AA, and are good and non-imposing ideas that would allow for subtle ways to aid the economy while maintaining the fun possibilities there is for AA.

    Please leave a comment bellow, and tell me what you think! Also, tell me if you have any ideas yourself! Thanks for Reading!

  2. #2
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    I will comment on item number 3 - Gold Sinks.

    This game so far has too many of them. The costs need to shaved by 50% at least. I'm sorry, but it shouldn't cost huge amounts of gold to start up farming. You get your starting scarecrow and then are expected to shell out large amounts of gold to begin. The game also doesn't explain to players they will be taxed "WEEKLY" for placing their starting farm. That's 2 gold please to start out and then 1 gold weekly after that. I shudder to think what the larger farm will cost weekly.

    This is also not considering the huge costs of having a simple, small house.

    It's one thing to work towards a goal but it's completely different when it feels like a chore and a second job. This is suppose to be a game after all.

    These type of sinks and grinds reek of F2P models that are NEVER successful and ultimately fail.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldon Telamon View Post
    I will comment on item number 3 - Gold Sinks.

    This game so far has too many of them. The costs need to shaved by 50% at least. I'm sorry, but it shouldn't cost huge amounts of gold to start up farming. You get your starting scarecrow and then are expected to shell out large amounts of gold to begin. The game also doesn't explain to players they will be taxed "WEEKLY" for placing their starting farm. That's 2 gold please to start out and then 1 gold weekly after that. I shudder to think what the larger farm will cost weekly.

    This is also not considering the huge costs of having a simple, small house.

    It's one thing to work towards a goal but it's completely different when it feels like a chore and a second job. This is suppose to be a game after all.

    These type of sinks and grinds reek of F2P models that are NEVER successful and ultimately fail.
    This is an excellent point. I understand why subscription is needed to start a farm and housing... But I feel like there is other ways to fix this issue. If they wanted to make this game F2P, then they should make it certainly that, F2P not P2W or P2P or something else that I don't feel suits AA. Of course we were told there was a way to buy subscriptions through the market system from people who actually paid for it, but with the current state of outrageous housing tax prices, this is simply a way for people to pay real money to obtain Gold. It would be foolish as it would basically be denying free to play players, an essential element of the game which is the so called "sandbox" element. Basically, you have to pay hard-currency to maintain a staple and seemingly-essential feature, that would be housing, because of the outrageous Gold Costs.
    I completely agree that they need to shave Gold Fees from Taxes, or else their model for selling subscriptions in their game is simply catering FAR TOO MUCH towards people who pay tons of money for the game, rather than relying on other forms of micro-transaction in combination with some sort of subscription. Things like Farms and Housing seem absolutely necessary to the nature of a "sandbox MMORPG" like AA where any player can participate by some means, but favoring only players who spend MASSIVE amounts of real currency to gain the ability to establish something that just seems essential, is foolish from a business perspective. They will TURN OFF players from playing the game which will in-turn cause the MMORPG to be far less large as it can be, and ultimately make them less money which is extremely silly... They need to be more heavily emphasizing cool micro-transaction things such as costumes and such found in other free to play micro-trans models that works so phenomenally well, because it appeals to every, but does not force players to Pay to Win.
    The fact that players who pay should get some sort of benefit, should be there. It makes sense, if people pay to help the developers, they should get something out of it that other players who play for free, just simply do not. And this should be heavily emphasized on the area of costumes, and other non-essential items or convenience savers, that do not throw the game out of balance by giving massive advantages to other players. Something like this could be an item shop item as follows.

    Farmer's Rune: Increases the rate at which your character gathers farm-based goods by 30%.

    A simple item, that gives no real advantage over players who don't pay for it, but rather saves their time and is a type of "Convenience Saver". These like these will attract MORE PEOPLE to the game so that they can MAKE MORE MONEY. If they attract a large basis of players (even if a massive portion of them pay for nothing) it will make players WHO DO PAY for some things want to KEEP PLAYING the game. Of course this is essential for maintaining the life of MMORPG, as well as making them more money. I understand they need to make money, but they should not hinder the health of the MMORPG or the content by forcing people to pay, but rather giving nice incentives that do not give a REAL advantage over other players.

    The Area of EXP boosters is something interesting as well. Although in theory it would massively set out-of-whack the "Fairness" for some players. These people who would spend money for these EXP boosters, are the people who would normally be playing non-stop to reach cap level anyway (well usually, or at least a fair amount of them). But in reality, this will in the long-run offer no real advantage to players, as this would simply be saving people's time and making it a bit more convenient for either "Hardcore" players or people who don't have as much time to spend leveling in the game, but certainly have the real currency required to obtain in-game micro-trans items such as these.
    I think a small staggered delay of maybe a month or so, of releasing an EXP booster for people's levels, will be a massive incentive for players just arriving on the seen, who want to catch up with those level 50's as quickly as possible. Do to a staggered release from the actual release of the game and release of an item such as this, this would prevent players from spending their money on these EXP boosters to simply gain an early advantage over those who start the game at the same time, but either don't have the means or desire to pay for the game itself. However, if an item that gave a clear massive advantage over other players was implemented, it would severely damage the game's appeal and ultimately lose a vast number of players such as an item that "Recovers Labor Points" by simply paying real-currency. It would be SEVERELY Detrimental to the game in my opinion.

    With a game centered around player to player interaction, it is essential to draw a large number of players, whether they are playing for free or not. This will keep players who do pay real currency, in the game, and actually in-turn make Far Greater money for Trion and partnered companies involved. It's a good business model for Free to Play, and would promote a much larger player base which would keep people far more interested in the game, just as WoW's massive player base has kept so many players interested in it (Regardless of how boring the game is or isn't).

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldon Telamon View Post
    I will comment on item number 3 - Gold Sinks.

    This game so far has too many of them. The costs need to shaved by 50% at least. I'm sorry, but it shouldn't cost huge amounts of gold to start up farming. You get your starting scarecrow and then are expected to shell out large amounts of gold to begin. The game also doesn't explain to players they will be taxed "WEEKLY" for placing their starting farm. That's 2 gold please to start out and then 1 gold weekly after that. I shudder to think what the larger farm will cost weekly.

    This is also not considering the huge costs of having a simple, small house.

    It's one thing to work towards a goal but it's completely different when it feels like a chore and a second job. This is suppose to be a game after all.

    These type of sinks and grinds reek of F2P models that are NEVER successful and ultimately fail.
    I can make 1 gold in 30 min... Seems VERY feasible. If you cannot farm right off the bat, and have to save a little, then that is ok... they shouldn't (and you shouldn't) want an easy poof-there-it-is model. The designers hopefully are putting out options... that are difficult to attain, and something to work toward. Otherwise, it'll be like everything else, go here... do this... done, I quit the game.

    I am a Lineage 2 vet... and the fact that it took years in L2 to attain max level was a positive thing. those who had a vested interest in the game made the decisions... not some dude who wanted everything instantly so he could get away with being equal at playing 2 hours a night when everyone else spent 16 hours a day working on their characters. Not all characters will be equal, and they shouldn't be... the game ends up with PvP like Guild wars 2, and ESO where everyone is near the same.

    Archeage is meant to be a political battle between pirates, ground fighters, merchants and farmers... it's a whole character concept, not a I want to do this, but I don't want to have to earn it type thing.

  5. #5
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    I agree that it's easy to obtain the gold, but that's simply for a "Small House" which is kind of absurd for low level players in my opinion. I don't think we need a cut of 50%, but maybe just 25%/30% something like that might make it a little more friendly to new players who are not yet good at "farming" and other things like that. I don't think there is any lack of space for housing in AA, especially with new continents and races coming, it wouldn't be an issue IMO. They just need to fix a bit of the system in order to make it the best possible for both veteran and new players.

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    Nothing needs to be cut. Play the game for longer than a week and it is not problem what so ever to make 3gp to pay the taxes on a small house...

    You guys are just new. Give it time and you might want to make it harder, because my fear is that there is not ENOUGH gold sink in this game. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCountry View Post
    Nothing needs to be cut. Play the game for longer than a week and it is not problem what so ever to make 3gp to pay the taxes on a small house...

    You guys are just new. Give it time and you might want to make it harder, because my fear is that there is not ENOUGH gold sink in this game. lol
    Thanks for the comment!

    I agree that there is not enough gold sinks, but I also think that there shouldn't be one gold sink that is MASSIVE with no others existing. A single large Gold Sink does not function well, and would steer players away from using that aspect of the game, but distributed gold sinks over many different aspects of the game, would accumulate a lot more Gold (as it would be more unavoidable) and would not bother players as much, because it would allow for more interesting game play (like playing the AH Market as I suggested earlier).
    Just my thoughts, and thanks for the post!

    Threads on AA's Economics, Housing, and More!

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    I have a question about gear. Does it have decay. say you take to many hits and it breaks. That's a good gold sink and it keeps crafting alive.. the biggest mistake all mmos like wow and swg after cu was they took out decay or didn't have it. Once you get the best crafted weapon endgame whats the point of leveling weaponsmith to get it if you never lose it. When I was in swg precu I made tons of money from crafting and being a doc. I had tons of repeat customers and it kept me crafting. Also I wish they would have, say wood grade D and wood grade A+ and A+ would give better stats.. that would be sweet

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by BigCountry View Post
    Nothing needs to be cut. Play the game for longer than a week and it is not problem what so ever to make 3gp to pay the taxes on a small house...

    You guys are just new. Give it time and you might want to make it harder, because my fear is that there is not ENOUGH gold sink in this game. lol
    I was going to reply point by point, with how my experience and opinion differs, but this guy really made my summation unnecessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koawhkaine View Post
    I was going to reply point by point, with how my experience and opinion differs, but this guy really made my summation unnecessary.
    Thanks for the comment!

    Please do not focus on the housing alone though. It is certainly an aspect of the economy, but only part of the game. I would appreciate an actual comment on what you thought of my post though, that would be helpful in better understanding the economic structure of AA. With a lack of Gold sinks in an MMORPG, there tends to be a massive shift in power favoring veteran players which makes the game a lot less fun in my opinion. I was describing a cyclic system that would allow for better decay of resources, and better gold cycling in-out of the game.

    Threads on AA's Economics, Housing, and More!

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