Should stolen trade goods be split 60/40% ?

[hazenvirus]

I'm going to take the time to validate any kind of split in a logical way, so people can stop claiming that it makes no sense to have a split.

Theft Prevention:

NPCs that you get your trade pack certificate from give the owner a code, this code specifically matchs each trade pack. When you take it to the turn in NPC they expect the code with the tradepack. If you don't have the code they choose to give you whatever split the game is choosing to use and hold the other portion for the player with the code (trade pack owner). This is a realisitic system, and a very good way to stop theft, since robbing physical goods becomes meaningless without knowing the actual code. Also realisitically the goods that were stolen could also be fenced for a fee, since using such a system it should be nearly impossible to trade in goods that don't belong to you. This is also why a split should exist as traders are not given a fundamental way to ensure or protect their goods from theft. If traders were given such a simple verification method then I expect pirating would dwindle into only the most desperate players trying it. The truth is the game caters to pirates right now and any situation where traders were given legitimate tools would result in the extinction of pirates. The split makes perfect sense and actually allows pirates to exist while severely punishing traders. The truth is the game has to, as many of you so eloquently put it, hold pirates hands or "carebear" for pirates. The games lack of trading elements, in a sandbox game none the less, is what allows piracy to exist on a fun level. In any realisitic setting piracy of trade goods would slowly or quickly be almost completely eliminated. Next time you complain about the split consider this and be glad the game holds your hand while you are out pirating.

80/20 seems like it is a good fix to prevent traders from dumping goods early, but that is all it is for, when the real problem is the traders don't need to visit the merchant to collect their part. Of course players would, without a time limit on collection, still dump goods with 60/40 and just go collect later. 80/20 is necessary to help prevent dumping goods becoming more profitable than trying to deliver goods. That is the only reason I agree with it.

[Xhamatos]

Just throwing it out there... but your assuming merchants should shoulder the responsibility for a pirates lifestyle. And because a merchant chooses to take said risk its totally on them i mean their fault for choosing to take a higher risk route.. naughty merchants.. I mean a pirate is a pirate and did not have a choice in the matter whatsoever... poor pirates.. born to a life of this... wait a sec...

So why be a merchant all together, why not just be pirates and get 100% of the cargo, its only fair.. all the anti-rep grinding (crime points), jail time, etc...

Sorry not buying it, although I am more than likely going to roll a pirate toon, I will not be crying over choices I make like this.. I need a ship or several to take down a merchant ship and get loot (resources etc)

Why would it be fair to have 100% of his hold be taken... its not... because for one thing merchants would stop doing runs like this... or they would have massive fleets of merchants and mercs ... not so easy targets..

I know that most pirates were not know for their cunning.. but the lack of logical intelligence astounds me.

[Xhamatos]

I'm going to take the time to validate any kind of split in a logical way, so people can stop claiming that it makes no sense to have a split.

Theft Prevention:

NPCs that you get your trade pack certificate from give the owner a code, this code specifically matchs each trade pack. When you take it to the turn in NPC they expect the code with the tradepack. If you don't have the code they choose to give you whatever split the game is choosing to use and hold the other portion for the player with the code (trade pack owner). This is a realisitic system, and a very good way to stop theft, since robbing physical goods becomes meaningless without knowing the actual code. Also realisitically the goods that were stolen could also be fenced for a fee, since using such a system it should be nearly impossible to trade in goods that don't belong to you. This is also why a split should exist as traders are not given a fundamental way to ensure or protect their goods from theft. If traders were given such a simple verification method then I expect pirating would dwindle into only the most desperate players trying it. The truth is the game caters to pirates right now and any situation where traders were given legitimate tools would result in the extinction of pirates. The split makes perfect sense and actually allows pirates to exist while severely punishing traders. The truth is the game has to, as many of you so eloquently put it, hold pirates hands or "carebear" for pirates. The games lack of trading elements, in a sandbox game none the less, is what allows piracy to exist on a fun level. In any realisitic setting piracy of trade goods would slowly or quickly be almost completely eliminated. Next time you complain about the split consider this and be glad the game holds your hand while you are out pirating.

80/20 seems like it is a good fix to prevent traders from dumping goods early, but that is all it is for, when the real problem is the traders don't need to visit the merchant to collect their part. Of course players would, without a time limit on collection, still dump goods with 60/40 and just go collect later. 80/20 is necessary to help prevent dumping goods becoming more profitable than trying to deliver goods. That is the only reason I agree with it.

I agree 100%

[Calim]

what about 80/0? As said by Hazenvirus this is not out of the realm of reality but if someone were to fence illegal goods, the fencer wouldn't go around and pay the real owner Good try though.

I have lost trade packs to stupidity and just the risks I took sailing straight into the enemy territory. Either way I lose a pack every time I lose it, I live, I learn and get over it. I really don't like this system (even though I will ofc welcome the money that comes in when someone takes my pack). Also, has it been addressed what happens if the thief goes for Stars instead of gold?

[Rhazes]

what about 80/0? As said by Hazenvirus this is not out of the realm of reality but if someone were to fence illegal goods, the fencer wouldn't go around and pay the real owner Good try though.

I have lost trade packs to stupidity and just the risks I took sailing straight into the enemy territory. Either way I lose a pack every time I lose it, I live, I learn and get over it. I really don't like this system (even though I will ofc welcome the money that comes in when someone takes my pack). Also, has it been addressed what happens if the thief goes for Stars instead of gold?

20/0 instead. The Takers don't risk anything anyways.

[hazenvirus]

My main point is that a split helps to better reflect trading than 100/0 without it becoming overly complex. If we wanted to we could add a player that fences goods and players who buy and sell through the fence could accumulate additional criminal points and earn gold/gilda at a much reduced rate. Then we'd have to have law enforcement that went after fenced goods, chance to get caught and go to prison when you fence maybe? It just becomes to complex, most people are okay with the game catering to pirates though because it is fun both for traders and pirates.

The problem with 100/0 is that pirates are going to see less and less traders, letting traders have some insurance makes sense in any trade environment and supports pirates at the same time. Even if you get 20% less the amount of traders willing to tempt fate will be higher and you will probably make out better in the end. Shifting away from 60/40 to stop dumping of goods is smart, but having no insurance for traders is both unrealistic and drives potential traders away from the game. Some of you say tough luck I want people to feel pain when I rob them, but you are only going to hurt the game and yourself in the long run. It still sucks for traders when they lose 80% of their profits, but guess what they will probably come back and try again.

Realistically why would the merchant want to trade with a pirate. Somone who would be as likely to murder them and take all their money. They keep the goods either way, they lose nothing if the code is wrong. It is the government's job to take up the enforcement of the rules and in its interest to protect traders. Maybe the fence should be on pirate island and he has a level related to goverment suspecting him. If it gets too high the goods are more likely to seized and profits redistributed to the trader. There could be many fences and you pirates could fight over them too. No matter what way you look at it 80/20 is still the game holding pirates hands when you compare it to any realistic scenario. That's okay though as long as traders have a split that isn't so forgiving as to reward dumping goods, because traders want pirates too.

TLDR: You can't really argue the split isn't realisitic. It favors pirates already. Promotes traders taking risk. Traders taking risks means more for you to pirate. More traders, more pirates, more fighting, more fun.

[Wolfhammer]

Well I'm new but will sling in my 1p worth..

1. No thief can sell on stolen items at 100% retail value. They knock stuff off cheap..
2. I insure things I attach value to in case it gets broke/lost or stolen.

With 1 & 2 in mind I am naturally leaning towards pirates getting 50-60% of the value, and the bloodied victim getting nothing but a chance to put in an insurance claim. Different insurance levels give back a higher percentage of the packs worth to the claimee

Seems perfectly logical to me...

[RavenTDA]

First off realism doesn't belong in video games. Fun-factor and balance does.

Just as people think 60/40 will make people dump their packs, 100/0 will prevent people from making packs at all along with hordes of people camping. 80/20 is a pretty good happy medium and I'd even say 75/25 would be better but we're arguing over a few numbers. There needs to be a split or else people won't waste their time and money making stuff just as there needs to be enough profit in it for pirates so they aren't wasting their time and effort trying to steal one.

If you really think about it though with a 60/40 split, it will make the entire game population as a whole have more gilda stars. Why? Because more people will be willing to take the risk and if there's more packs out in the open waters there's more packs to be stolen by pirates so that everyone ends up profiting. But part of the issue is that the developers said they don't want people to have as many gilda stars (so fast?) and that's why they changed the mechanics to intercontinental only.

[Trixta]

it should be all or nothing.

[Lord Nothing]

For once I agree with Trixta.