+ Reply to Thread
Page 9 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 167

Thread: 2.0 Abolisher - Overpowered, am i the only one that thinks this?

  1. #81
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,157
    This is more specific to Revitalizing cheer, an ability i have no idea why they are buffing. I play defense and i hate how overpowered it is against physical damage and yet it keeps getting buffed for some reason.

    I agree that Abolisher is going to be the new aids and the class really doesn't have much of a counter now that Witchcraft is being nerfed, as long as you played Abolisher super defensively i dont really see how you could ever lose.

    Get rid of the Revitalizing cheer buff.
    Celia, Nation Hero
    < DISASTER >
    "You can lead a Abolisher to water but he can't kill anyone." - Famous Quote
    'The Mouth of Sauron'
    WORLD CHAMPS

  2. #82
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgame View Post
    This is more specific to Revitalizing cheer, an ability i have no idea why they are buffing. I play defense and i hate how overpowered it is against physical damage and yet it keeps getting buffed for some reason.

    I agree that Abolisher is going to be the new aids and the class really doesn't have much of a counter now that Witchcraft is being nerfed, as long as you played Abolisher super defensively i dont really see how you could ever lose.

    Get rid of the Revitalizing cheer buff.
    Agreed agreed agreed agreed. More importantly, get rid of that stupid f*** lunagem

    Signed,

    - a melee tank

  3. #83
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    353
    Quote Originally Posted by KanonXO View Post
    You're not fighting a darkrunner, an end game abolisher is going to have a ♥♥♥♥ ton of sustain, even verse magic classes. And keep in mind if that abolisher is running frenzy and magic shield (from redoubt liberation which is almost a guarantee) before your burst, it'll not only give him MORE sustain against your burst but when he comes out if it he's going to have like 1k melee attack...and no, you won't survive his cc burst if he has frenzy on.
    No, it isn't a "hard counter" exactly, but given players of roughly even skill, with equally geared characters, the odds should be significantly in favor of the Arcanist.

    Remember that the Arcanist is likely to have leech, focal concusion and purge.

    The Abolisher is going to lose some of his buffs.

    He could lose a lot of that magic protection, thus taking more damage. He could also lose his health buff, which loses him a big chunk of health right away, and could mean no mettle if he didn't already have it stacked up, which is going to drop 4.5k off his self heal right there.

    Lets also assume the Arcanist knows how to play his class (I don't really, I've just had this combo pulled on me by my wife), and knows how to fight an Abolisher (I suspect we're all going to get plenty of practise at that!).

    In that case they might well be saving the enervate specifically to reduce the self heal, and they might even have saved purge or focal concussion to strip shrug it off, although I imagine that would require quick reflexes and good latency. They could also easily be close enough to use thwart to reduce the heal even further.

    I'm no expert on Arcanist, but I've played Abolisher a fair bit, and I often like to play Nightblade for hunting Darkrunners and archers, which is very similar defensively. This would not be an easy fight for the Abolisher.

    As you said, it certainly isn't an auto-win for the Arcanist, but then I think that even the worst match-up should be winnable with either luck or skill. Sadly that's not always the case, but I still think this as much of a direct counter to a class as any should be.

    That said, I don't think anyone can reasonably dispute that Abolishers are going to be a very strong class, even more so than in 1.8.

  4. #84
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    353
    Another thought has just occured to me.

    Is the extra healing from the gems going to be increased by shrug it off as well?

    If so, cheer with shrug, full mettle and no debuffs is going to be more like 12-13k, making me very glad I usually run defence.

  5. #85
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    327
    Quote Originally Posted by CariadocThorne View Post
    Another thought has just occured to me.

    Is the extra healing from the gems going to be increased by shrug it off as well?

    If so, cheer with shrug, full mettle and no debuffs is going to be more like 12-13k, making me very glad I usually run defence.
    That is a good question indeed. Will need to test it, but I would think so. Although, shrug is usually on CD by the time I would use cheer. That varies, of course.

  6. #86
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,334
    Warning: incoming novel....

    Quote Originally Posted by CariadocThorne View Post
    No, it isn't a "hard counter" exactly, but given players of roughly even skill, with equally geared characters, the odds should be significantly in favor of the Arcanist.

    Remember that the Arcanist is likely to have leech, focal concusion and purge.

    The Abolisher is going to lose some of his buffs.

    He could lose a lot of that magic protection, thus taking more damage. He could also lose his health buff, which loses him a big chunk of health right away, and could mean no mettle if he didn't already have it stacked up, which is going to drop 4.5k off his self heal right there.

    Lets also assume the Arcanist knows how to play his class (I don't really, I've just had this combo pulled on me by my wife), and knows how to fight an Abolisher (I suspect we're all going to get plenty of practise at that!).

    In that case they might well be saving the enervate specifically to reduce the self heal, and they might even have saved purge or focal concussion to strip shrug it off, although I imagine that would require quick reflexes and good latency. They could also easily be close enough to use thwart to reduce the heal even further.

    I'm no expert on Arcanist, but I've played Abolisher a fair bit, and I often like to play Nightblade for hunting Darkrunners and archers, which is very similar defensively. This would not be an easy fight for the Abolisher.

    As you said, it certainly isn't an auto-win for the Arcanist, but then I think that even the worst match-up should be winnable with either luck or skill. Sadly that's not always the case, but I still think this as much of a direct counter to a class as any should be.

    That said, I don't think anyone can reasonably dispute that Abolishers are going to be a very strong class, even more so than in 1.8.
    +1 to your response, constructive and thought out! Although I can't say I agree with some things, it was a good read! Need more people like you to post here!

    First and foremost I want to say again, fighting abolishers at 3.5, 4.5, 5.5k score are significantly different. Since we're talking about end game here, many people haven't been able to legit contest properly. With that said I think we can all agree here that pvp in this game is comprised of the following:

    1. Gear
    2. Ping
    3. Class (counter)

    Not in any respective order because sometimes, for example, ping can gave a greater influence on the fight than gear and vice versa. AFTER that it would be player skill then rng. Even the pvp in this game is rng. With that said..

    No, it isn't a "hard counter" exactly, but given players of roughly even skill, with equally geared characters, the odds should be significantly in favor of the Arcanist.
    I'd have to respectfully disagree.

    Remember that the Arcanist is likely to have leech, focal concusion and purge.

    The Abolisher is going to lose some of his buffs.

    He could lose a lot of that magic protection, thus taking more damage. He could also lose his health buff, which loses him a big chunk of health right away, and could mean no mettle if he didn't already have it stacked up, which is going to drop 4.5k off his self heal right there.
    Leech has only a small chance to steal a buff so it may not even steal one.

    Focal won't remove a buff if he shrugs off, but let's assume he does not (even though he'll have it back up for a cheer/heal after tanking the combo if he did use it).

    Problem with this is that tanks have soooo many buffs you have to be lucky to remove the one you really want. Redoubt, mettle (if any is stacked at that point), refreshment, liberation, magic shield combo'd from redoubt or conversion shield, battle focus, frenzy...so many (then even more with passive buffs such as reckless charge). But here's the thing, nothing you remove at that point would be game changing. If you remove one of the magic buffs, he'll likely to still have the other (frenzy or magic shield since the odds of stripping both if those would be very low). You'll never strip shrug off for the the cheer heal...ever. Even if your ping and reaction time was fast enough to pay attention to that, you have to be super lucky to get shrug out of alllll the buffs he already has.

    If you strip refreshment it's only a couple K hp, that's not very significant. I don't think stripping any of those buffs will change the outcome of the fight. In fact it's in favor of the abolisher because if he has redoubt up and you don't strip it (likely wont), there goes your meteor combo.


    In that case they might well be saving the enervate specifically to reduce the self heal, and they might even have saved purge or focal concussion to strip shrug it off, although I imagine that would require quick reflexes and good latency. They could also easily be close enough to use thwart to reduce the heal even further.
    I'm sorry but with all due respect, this part here gives me an impression that your pvp experience is lacking. Enervate is a slow projectile that you can see from a mile away, it's also a debuff that lasts only 4 seconds. You can easily play around that.
    Again purge won't strip the 1 second window you have to strip shrug especially with all the other buffs he has. This next part was what gave me that impression though. Focal can't strip shrug because focal's stun has to end to strip. Considering shrug is a stun break and immunity to stun, focal can never strip shrug.

    Thwart is only 3 seconds, the tank can easily wait out 3 seconds before healing...or if it's an emergency he can always use invincibility (if he hasn't already) to let the debuffs wear out. Either way, the abolisher has to play POORLY to fail to get his max heal off. So it's the abolisher's fight to lose.

    This is all assuming that the Arcanist has control of the opener. Which even if he does...still, my question of, once he heals up for 9-10k and has all his attacks ready while the Arcanist blew all his cc, how will he win? Would you agree with me that if the abolisher tanks the combo, and gets the heal off that he will likely win? If that's the case, equally geared end game classes speced to fight each other...abolisher has the advantage because he can 100% for sure tank the damage, i know this because I have first hand experience.

    But let's go back to the opener...

    The only way your catching this abolisher is from banshee. Heres how the fight will likely begin.

    Assuming the abolisher is running this build (since we're talking about 1s specing for each other) : http://archeagedatabase.net/us/calc/344318

    Abolisher will tigerstrike for the gap close after using terrfying roar, redoubt, liberation, maybe frenzy and battle focus. You can't kite that because he will get tiger off eventually since he has access to 2 teleports, a 15m leap, 12m leap, and a 20m gap closer. From that point the Arcanist will either catch him with banshee or focal.

    Now there are a lot of plays and variables at this point.

    scenario 1
    - arcanist catches with focal to banshee to lassitude combo
    - abolisher has terrifying up, broke stun with shrug (or prepopped it, either way same result), but feared.
    - abolisher breaks out of lassitude via bond breaker at the end of banshee since lassitude effect was nerfed another second so even with the Auroria piece that reduces the delay (would reduce to 2 seconds) and also since he has terrifying up.
    - abolisher now has massive advantage. Can bullsrush for silence (gg) or charge trip strike for trip.
    - Only play arcanist has is if his ping is significantly faster after the abolisher bond breaks is by teleporting away which won't work since the abolisher has all the mobilty skills listed above and LIKELY hasn't used them yet (even if he's blown a teleport already he's still got a lot left in the tank). That's all assuming the shield bash or charge don't hit... Which they most likely will. (note that if the arcanist did try and kite the buffs he would have to burn his gods whip to get the abolisher in combat so that he couldn't dash since with dash the abolisher could just dash then tigerstrike to catch.

    scenario 2:
    - arcanist literally catches abolisher via banshee
    - abolisher has terrfying up and can shrug off stun from banshee and bondbreak before lassitude kicks in (gg lassitude nerf).
    - again, advantage abolisher

    Scenery 3
    - arcanist catches with banshee (the good ones can catch during tiger strike), lassitudes, casts insidious to increase the fear time so the sleep would land (this would be the play).
    - abolisher eats the pretty much just a single meteor since he has redoubt up and back to advantage abolisher
    - or abolisher has redoubt miraculously stripped, eats full burst rotation
    - Arcanist uses thwart and enervate to nerf the upcoming cheer
    - abolisher goes invincibility to wait out the debuff
    - abolisher shrugs to cheer for half his hp back
    - advantage abolisher again

    Scenery 4
    - Arcanist opens with frigid (most likely). This means Arcanist won't be kiting out abolishers buffs
    - Arcanist cast freezing arrow while abolisher tiger strikes in (would be towards the end of tigerstrike due to the abolisher dashing meaning the Arcanist could not catch abolisher with banshee due to the gcd he would eat)
    - abolisher (with movement and everything he'll be outside 10m) prepops shrug and charge/BEL to trip for kd combo. Only way to avoid this would be to catch him with banshee during the charge which would be very difficult do to the charge animation being significantly faster and shorter range. If you do catch him though, then we'll it'd just be a repeat of scenario 1. Or...
    - Arcanist teleports out and dodges the charge
    - abolisher behind enemy lines to Arcanist again for trip rotation assuming he lands it (landing it would be more of a skill/ping thing) or also uses a teleport if needed.

    I just don't see how Arcanist is the counter, I see abolisher having the advantage in every scenario.

    Granted, like you said, rng is a huge part. Lets say a single charge or Bulls rush misses...it could potentially give the Arcanist a significant advantage. Now suddenly it's the Arcanist fight to lose.


    Another thought has just occured to me.

    Is the extra healing from the gems going to be increased by shrug it off as well?

    If so, cheer with shrug, full mettle and no debuffs is going to be more like 12-13k, making me very glad I usually run defence.
    Wow didn't even think about that. You're right, I think it may scale that way. If it does...that's just plain stupid.

  7. #87
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1
    I have been thinking of rolling abolisher for awhile.. is 4 piece delph flame + 3 piece obsidian armor (chest,pants,fists) a viable route?

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by KanonXO View Post
    Warning: incoming novel....
    So what's the play boss? There is no nerf class x in this game, you can only nerf/buff trees, which makes balancing a nightmare. imo auramancy is the worst offender in 1v1 class balance

  9. #89
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    220
    Kanon, as i said you can't run with everything as Abolisher and the build you provided is great for fighting vs mages but is very bad for fighting melee. No good abolisher run that build for an all around build.

  10. #90
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Orchidna
    Posts
    344
    Not a counter post - more a 'So what?' post.

    I'm 'The Wife' mentioned by CariadocThorne *waves!*

    It is true that Abolisher is OP in 2.0 but there need to be a LOT of conditions met which if we are honest, just won't be the case all the time.

    The OP Abolisher which meets all the ticks above AND can play their class will likely kick your ♥♥♥.

    Oh Well, your pixels were teleported to a Nui.

    Truthfully though, this is just not the norm. Therefore, I would always say to play what you like and what you can play well and just don;t get your panties in a twist because you cannot beat Every Player 100% of the time.

    Also gotta have fun, not just roll everyone.

    Mages, we're just hotter. ;-)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 9 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts