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Thread: Here's why server merges help casual players more than they think and stabilizes the economy.

  1. #191
    Senior Member neoVictrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikroman View Post
    THis system is EU/NA only (?). korean version is like AA and other dozens p2w korean grindfest games. Nothing new, nothing special. No real reason to switch from old games. The problem is not the trade system of BDO in EU. +This "failed" game has more players in EU/NA regions than AA. The price generator is not "perfect". Other good point is the upgrade and "check in" part of BDO. If you start later you have real chance to "catch" other players. It's more "new guy" friendly. In other side this is too casual friendly and non high-end PvP is a joke.
    Oh, and upgrade/enchant system is less punishing rng system.

    Traciatim: Sure. trading system is not easy, but you can generate good income in "life skills" too AND generate good income in monster farming too. Or join to the PvP guild and play in war economy. 2nd days are wars (mass PvP), 6th day is siege.
    edit: you asked example. BDO is good example. marketplace auto pricing is a joke and you have to do many things yourself, but the system is more player friendly and problem of multiaccounts not exist.
    New-player friendly doesn't mean giving the player a bunch of restriction on what they can and can't do under the guise saying "new players can catch up". The whole "catching up" mentality is, in my opinion, honestly something that's attributed to how MMOs have gone from multiplayer games to an online game where you do most (if not all) of the game content by yourself, and honestly isn't the way to play since that isn't how you'd go about designing them.

    I dare say EVE is more new-player friendly since a lot of what you need to know is provided at the beginning, you just have to pay attention. From there it's putting that knowledge to use and get experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Player A
    and thats exactly why im complaining, if i, a severe addict ot the game is on the verge of quitting and refuses to give the money at this point, is that not a sign of negativity from your most veteran playerbase?
    Quote Originally Posted by Player B
    It indicates that one player is disgruntled, and probably plays with a land-rush mentality; the kind of people for which no content is ever enough.

  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntaris View Post

    On a side note, the RNG of stats when you level just makes matters worse.
    Turned of. That was dark humor.
    You can drop grass to BDO, but this system generate less toxic community because you have to PLAY to get advantage or upgrade your items. No bad excuses like: card gamer, "he won because his mastercard buff".
    BDO community use other words: nolifers, nolifers2win time2win. and same new words.

    neoVitrix: Catch up = faster leveling in lower levels. Easy to get lvl 50 where you reach all skill(but no level cap), you have immunity of PvP in low level, no character level restriction in items (easy to switch class), upgrades are faster in lower enchant level and game is less gear centric. It's near impossible to get advantage of AA's +1000 equipment points.

  3. #193
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    More server merges wont fix this game for either pvp'ers.

    If you're a serious pvp'er I don't even know why you play Archeage...there are much better pvp games out there. This game caters for all and avoids being a hardcore pvp game or harcore dungeon orientated game.

    Seriously, if Trion opts for another merge (especially for servers that went through it last time), many will quit (I say that on the basis of hearing it over and over). The land situation totally disrupted many players - many lost out, spent a lot of time and gold to get back to where they were and do not want to go through the same thing again.

    I totally get the need for merges but merges in Archeage can't be compared with server merges in Lineage 2 or similar games. I've been through an Archeage merge and if they do it again (in the same manner) myself, along with many others will just quit.

    The people calling for merge seem mainly to be pvp'ers thinking merges will magically "force" people who don't want to pvp into pvp'ing. Didn't happen last time and certainly wont happen if another merger occurs. People are transferring to other servers searching for greener fields to pvp in but not finding them....merge wont change this. And one of the main reasons for this is that Archeage isn't a hardcore PVP game - and attracts people who love to game with minimal pvp or where it can mostly be avoided. Even Trions strategies of running events and in-game content in a manner that forces more participation and grouping of people together wont really increase pvp either....the majority of the player base are not interested in pvp.

  4. #194
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    Ok the difference between merges and server transfers:

    - Your land will have no value as all know it is going poof in a few days, but you will get the pre-built kits so if you happen to be lucky/not working day of the merge you may get land to put it on

    - Your crops/lumber/stone/random crap will have no value as everyone else is trying to dump their crap too as you can only bring so much with you - You know in case Trion doesn't manage to correctly pack all those storage chests and xfer them with your toon to the new servers. Not like we have had 4 months where they couldn't see what was in chests and get our crap back to us post 2.5 update. cough cough - still no compensation on that Trino.

    - So no you will not be walking onto the newly merged server with 10k+ gold from items sold. You will have w/e is in your pocket today.

    - You and every other newly arrived soul on the server will be land crazed and looking to settle down. First on and with the fastest connects, will claim a crap tonne of land so they can sell it off. Profiteering was a thing with the first set of merges...it will be no different 2nd time around. Same with server overload, random DCs, Roll backs, land hacks, etc.

    So what can Trino do?


    - New PVP server?? Korea has it... maybe it's time for us here too. PVP as far as the eye can see. More honor rewarding events instead of money. Gear ticket again for those on that server. Maybe can make it one toon per account or somehow limit alts. A place for those who love the good pvp can go and shine.

    - Give PVPers more arenas! Dumbest thing was to limit them per day and then charge gold. At least charge them honor. Who really thought this was going to go well??? Arenas are practically ghost towns with queues taking hours to pop. Also the cross realm queuing will help as well with 3.0 but if can be implemented sooner, would be better. Your PVPers are bored without some quick action to break up their day. So if there is nothing stellar going on their server they turn to making mischief and purpling on others out of sheer boredom and destructiveness. Will this solve all the purple bridge loving trolls, no. But at least most will be having too much fun in packed 1s, 3s, and 5s to give a damn about a 14g pack.

    - Any other ideas?

  5. #195
    Senior Member Voluntaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikroman View Post
    Turned of. That was dark humor.
    You can drop grass to BDO, but this system generate less toxic community because you have to PLAY to get advantage or upgrade your items. No bad excuses like: card gamer, "he won because his mastercard buff".
    BDO community use other words: nolifers, nolifers2win time2win. and same new words.

    neoVitrix: Catch up = faster leveling in lower levels. Easy to get lvl 50 where you reach all skill(but no level cap), you have immunity of PvP in low level, no character level restriction in items (easy to switch class), upgrades are faster in lower enchant level and game is less gear centric. It's near impossible to get advantage of AA's +1000 equipment points.
    That kind of system is unfair to people who work full time for a living, whereas the players living with their parents can play 24/7/365 gaining a HUGE advantage over those that can't spend so much time.

    Things like APEX help level the playing field for the people who can't play 24/7/365, while adding the benefit of subsidizing f2p players who don't want to spend real money.

    As for it being less toxic, that's probably to do with there not being nearly as many players ... less players = less players to be toxic. Boring as hell game = less toxicity.
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  6. #196
    Senior Member neoVictrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikroman View Post
    Turned of. That was dark humor.
    You can drop grass to BDO, but this system generate less toxic community because you have to PLAY to get advantage or upgrade your items. No bad excuses like: card gamer, "he won because his mastercard buff".
    BDO community use other words: nolifers, nolifers2win time2win. and same new words.
    Those words exist in every game; they aren't new. Regardless of any system you want to try and create it will never be fair unless you start imposing restrictions that'd even have north korea think you've gone off the deep end or completely do away with any sense of progression and just have a "pickup and play" game. It's also no less toxic than any other game, especially when guilds and such are involved. The game just has a penalty system that says "oh, you're going to pvp. that means you're able to handle the ♥♥♥♥storm that's about to happen to you, and if you don't then you better think twice before attacking".

    neoVitrix: Catch up = faster leveling in lower levels. Easy to get lvl 50 where you reach all skill(but no level cap), you have immunity of PvP in low level, no character level restriction in items (easy to switch class), upgrades are faster in lower enchant level and game is less gear centric. It's near impossible to get advantage of AA's +1000 equipment points.
    That's what I mean when I'm talking about progression. Reaching a level cap doesn't matter and is of the least concern, if any at all, when it comes to progression - that's something everyone reaches and the path is pure vertical progression.

    Not having lower level players get the experience of how PVP works in a game works against them if you ask me - they have to wait in order to get the experience of PvP when they're thrown right into the fire. Unless players are going to actively duel each other it's for their benefit to be able to pvp in an environment with other new players to get that experience and not get discouraged because they got beaten down by a higher leveled player.

    It shouldn't be easy for players to be switch between classes if you ask me - that adds to the whole "i just need to party with people for x and y since i can do everything else by myself". We've been having too many games like that. I do have to agree that level requirements on equipment is a little silly, but as far as progress goes I understand why it's there.

    Making upgrading equipment easy means players have an easier time of getting stronger beyond what a level cap would allow, which would mean faster clearing of content, which makes players want new content sooner than it can be ready and getting bored with the game. The gearscore in ArcheAge (or power, equipment points, whatever) while being a measurable scale of strength makes it easier for the developers to make content that is appropriate for the players in a specific range of power (or hard, depending on how you're looking at it).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Player A
    and thats exactly why im complaining, if i, a severe addict ot the game is on the verge of quitting and refuses to give the money at this point, is that not a sign of negativity from your most veteran playerbase?
    Quote Originally Posted by Player B
    It indicates that one player is disgruntled, and probably plays with a land-rush mentality; the kind of people for which no content is ever enough.

  7. #197
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    Voluntaris: Or the trash filter (b2p) system is working well and toxic elements without log in money stay outside. Little children of mommy will chose other game, most of trolls will give up in this step. And most of the "Top" pvp players have job and we are working 8( or more) hours/day.
    But you missed the relevant part of this comments. We have working good example where you can't get advantage in 2nd account and you don'T have to play in other regions or in other accounts to be part of the "competitive" game. Simple closed trade channels out of marketplace can work well in other systems too.

  8. #198
    Senior Member neoVictrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikroman View Post
    Voluntaris: Or the trash filter (b2p) system is working well and toxic elements without log in money stay outside. Little children of mommy will chose other game, most of trolls will give up in this step. And most of the "Top" pvp players have job and we are working 8( or more) hours/day.
    But you missed the relevant part of this comments. We have working good example where you can't get advantage in 2nd account and you don'T have to play in other regions or in other accounts to be part of the "competitive" game. Simple closed trade channels out of marketplace can work well in other systems too.
    A buy-to-play or sub-based system only deters people from managing multiple accounts, it doesn't keep players from doing it (and it most certainly doesn't keep out anything someone would consider toxic). It prevents people from making throwaway accounts, yes, but even that only works so well considering we've got 7-day trials with a purchase (and giveaway sites that still have 7-day trials to be redeemed).

    As it's been expressed by other players on the BDO forums, why would you make a single-player experience in a multiplayer game?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Player A
    and thats exactly why im complaining, if i, a severe addict ot the game is on the verge of quitting and refuses to give the money at this point, is that not a sign of negativity from your most veteran playerbase?
    Quote Originally Posted by Player B
    It indicates that one player is disgruntled, and probably plays with a land-rush mentality; the kind of people for which no content is ever enough.

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoVictrix View Post
    A buy-to-play or sub-based system only deters people from managing multiple accounts, it doesn't keep players from doing it (and it most certainly doesn't keep out anything someone would consider toxic). It prevents people from making throwaway accounts, yes, but even that only works so well considering we've got 7-day trials with a purchase (and giveaway sites that still have 7-day trials to be redeemed).

    As it's been expressed by other players on the BDO forums, why would you make a single-player experience in a multiplayer game?

    So... Do you miss the argument and comment the additional off topic informations? Ok.
    This is not b2p or f2p question. BDO is an example of closed TRADE system. Nothing else. If you can't send additional resources of your 2nd, 3rd, 20th account to the 1st account you can't get advantage based on more accounts. This is not rocket science. If AA does the same and all other factor stay unchanged AA will get same exit. = No advantage in more account =no reason to use more account.
    And done. The End

    You don't have to explain pros and cons of other games in OTHER factors.

  10. #200
    Senior Member Empyreus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikroman View Post
    So... Do you miss the argument and comment the additional off topic informations? Ok.
    This is not b2p or f2p question. BDO is an example of closed TRADE system. Nothing else. If you can't send additional resources of your 2nd, 3rd, 20th account to the 1st account you can't get advantage based on more accounts. This is not rocket science. If AA does the same and all other factor stay unchanged AA will get same exit. = No advantage in more account =no reason to use more account.
    And done. The End

    You don't have to explain pros and cons of other games in OTHER factors.
    and thereby destroying the economy of the game in the process... BRILLIANT!

    as others have said it would take an entire reworking of the games built in systems to even accomplish that, its not just something you slap on and go "PROBLEM SOLVED!"

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